S04.E04: Talk

[SunnyBeBe]

I didn't follow last season, so to see Tamara Tunie was a TREAT for me. I really like her.  

Did anyone get the vibe that maybe, the cell phone store that Jimmy is now working might not be on the up and up?  When Jimmy's supervisor called, he seemed to be none too bothered that the place was not doing business.  And, he seemed to make up that they just did inventory. Telling him to bring a book to work. Come on?  Would a real person in the business of selling phones be so nonchalant about them not selling phones?  IDK....I wonder if the boss will be too happy with Jimmy calling attention to the place if it's a front.  Jimmy later displayed his talent for picking out fronts.   

Once again, I'm just delighted that the writers didn't follow some overdone response from Jimmy when Kim suggested that he see a therapist.  I detest the way it's normally handled where the person gets all defensive and says that they don't need to see a therapist, when they obviously do.  Jimmy may not go, but at least, his response was realistic and not cliche. 

I'm not into Nacho.  I'm just done with that.  So, due to his poor choices, he now puts his father and family's life in danger.  Please.

And yes, about some weird tape malfunction as soon as the judge returned to the courtroom.  He looked at Kim, started to say something and it cut to a commercial, like it was a glitch in the video.  Odd.  Did I miss anything after that?  When it returned, it was something else entirely.  

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I don't remember that, either.

Remember a scene in BB when Saul Goodman opened his desk drawer and it was full of all different kinds of cell phones?  Makes sense now.

Remember the Hello Kitty phone he gave to Jessie when Jessie was going to meet the vacuum cleaner salesman to disappear?  A little tiny bit of humor in a very dark episode.

6 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I think this is correct.  

Also, I fucking hate people policing other people's grieving.  Even Mike.  This process doesn't work for you? Then leave.  You think you know better? Form your own fucking group.  

This may have pissed me off.  May have.

The actor is very good in this role. I sort of hated Mike in this episode and he made me sad. The opener with the cement was heart-wrenching. I actually thought the little boy was Jimmy because it gave a 1950/1960's vibe. I sometimes hate the way Mike is never wrong about anything. It almost makes him all knowing. I guess he will be wrong about Walter White.

3 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

An excellent episode.  With all the characters following their own separate trajectories, it feels more like an ensemble show than the the two-track structure of past seasons but this has the advantage that we have a really good knowledge of each of the characters.

Really pleased to see the flashback teaser -- and a Mike one!  I don't want the show to go all "Lost" in requiring flashbacks but I do think these are very interesting and I hope we get more of them, especially with different characters.

This is one of the strongest Mike episodes in a long time.  I loved seeing him torpedo the grief group and his reaction to Stacey's admissions were heartbreakingly brilliant.  Mike hates dishonesty but he feels he's the most broken and dishonest one of all for killing his boy so he goes to Gus with not a care in the world and gets stuck in.  It makes sense and calling out Gus's tactics was brilliant.  Don't play a player.

Nacho had some great material this week too.  The Salamanca gunfight was epic and Gus's strategy was good.  But my favourite scene was with his father.  I just love that actor.  He radiates love and sadness in equal measure.  And that relationship is so perfect and really defines Nacho's character.

Kim also seemed to move on more than she has in a while despite only being in a few scenes.  I loved her absolute disdain for the cynical judge and her effectively giving him the finger by sitting right back down.  Although he mocked a heroic movie-style case, he's also right: we know she does want to be Atticus Finch.  As ever, I'm intrigued to see where she goes.  I also like that they address last week's ending not with a conversation but with an action - Kim suggests talking and not to her.

No Howard for the second episode in a row.  I like that the show doesn't force appearances where they aren't necessary and I can see that Howard is very peripheral as things stand.  Still, I've really grown to like Howard and I hope, like Nacho in S3, he gets a really good spotlight in the back half.

And finally, Jimmy.  I loved that they had him bouncing the ball at the end of one scene, stacked a load of other scenes in between, and when he came back he was still bouncing the ball.  The mobile phone job was always going to be a train wreck but I was surprised how quickly.  It was a nice bit of prequel work to show the origin of Saul's need for an endless supply of phones -- I wonder if he's going to try and acquire some before his employers realise what a mistake they've made.  I liked his relationship with Ira too.

I was interested that, in the timeline, he still has 10 months before he can return to the law.  I thought they might try to move that along a little faster as, if they keep the current pace and the pace of most of BB, we wouldn't reach the end of his time until S7 which is longer than the show will likely run.  Obviously they'll need to hit fast-forward at some point, hopefully a little more slickly than "Gliding Over All" which I felt condensed a little too much too quickly. 

I do miss Jimmy the lawyer and except for his bit of phone salesmanship last week, we haven't seen it this year.  There's also a lot building up in the Jimmy/Kim relationship.  As a result, the Jimmy stuff feels like waiting for the other shoe to drop.  We're so used to Jimmy talking and he's just not and it gives the plot a pressure cooker feel.  I'm nervously excited to see where this goes...

Nacho's father is the real tragedy of the show. 

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

It could very well become something major. After all, the facts about Jimmy's new partner getting a bunch more money than expected and giving half to Jimmy when he didn't really have to is just too far "over the top" to make it a "one time only" event. I'm guessing that glove can develop into a major plot point in the rest of this season.

What I mean to say is the fact that this partner did something so very "over the top" good for Jimmy must mean something else is coming. Otherwise I can't see why it would have been presented that way.  I'm pretty certain this glove will indeed come back and it will become a lot more than just a "red herring".

 

Wow! that is a pretty amazing analysis of this episode. Well done, Bannon.

I was so shocked that the thief was so honest with Jimmy. It was very smart because Jimmy could get him some more gigs in the future. I also love the actor's voice and wish we had heard more of it in BB.

40 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

This is the first episode of BCS that I thought veered into the unrealistic.

Kim disobeying a direct order from a judge.  Isn't that a really bad thing in lawyer-land, contempt of court or something?

Mike calling out all the honest people in the grief group. We know Mike can't get over the death of Matty and his own part in it, but how often does Mike think about his wife these days?  Stacey might actually be moving on a little better if Mike wasn't there silently guilting her about moving on.

The gun fight.  Please.  With all those armed thugs, and all that junk to hide behind, I can not believe one of those guys didn't get the drop on one of the Salamancas.  The satchels o' guns did make me laugh, though.

I'm probably just mad because I thought this was going to be a Kim episode and her time on screen was tiny compared to the drug world. 

Also, the sound of people eating makes me angry and causes me to hate the eater, (this is not an uncommon reaction*) so if that's not what we're supposed to do then that part of the directing is bad.

*Misophonia, a disorder which means sufferers have a hatred of sounds such as eating, chewing, loud breathing or even repeated pen-clicking, was first named as a condition in 2001"

Spoiler tagging

Spoiler

There was no suspense for me with the gun battle since I know exactly how and when the twins die, so I knew they would make it out okay.

40 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

When Stacey told Mike she had volunteered him to lay the cement for the playground, Mike claimed he didn't know much about laying cement.  Stacey then told him that Matt had told her about him doing it when Matt was a kid.  Obviously this was the memory Mike had in the beginning of the episode.  I wonder if he was lying to Stacey or if she helped him remember it 

I wonder if part of Mike's anger came from feelings that Stacey might be using their shared grief to manipulate him.  

I am looking for parallels between Mike's blowup in the group to Jesse's blowup in the NA meeting (in the same church, I think).  They both had a similar, "This is bs!" reaction.

Jesse met Andrea in the NA meetings, which not only led to her death, but to the relationship between him, Walt and Fring going nuclear, as it led to him knowing that Fring's dealers used kids and that one of them murdered Combo.

Mike has a possible love interest from his group with a similar name.  Will that relationship also lead to bad things?

Mike and Jimmy are now both dealing with guilt for being indirectly responsible for the death of their more ethical loved ones, who shared their profession.

Great catch! I hope nothing happens to Mike's romantic partner. She seems like a very nice lady. I hope Mike does not cut her out of his life. He needs the companionship of someone like that but it is unlikely she is still around during BB.

[ShadowFacts]

52 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

This is the first episode of BCS that I thought veered into the unrealistic.

Kim disobeying a direct order from a judge.  Isn't that a really bad thing in lawyer-land, contempt of court or something?

Mike calling out all the honest people in the grief group. We know Mike can't get over the death of Matty and his own part in it, but how often does Mike think about his wife these days?  Stacey might actually be moving on a little better if Mike wasn't there silently guilting her about moving on.

The gun fight.  Please.  With all those armed thugs, and all that junk to hide behind, I can not believe one of those guys didn't get the drop on one of the Salamancas.  The satchels o' guns did make me laugh, though.

I'm probably just mad because I thought this was going to be a Kim episode and her time on screen was tiny compared to the drug world. 

Also, the sound of people eating makes me angry and causes me to hate the eater, (this is not an uncommon reaction*) so if that's not what we're supposed to do then that part of the directing is bad.

*Misophonia, a disorder which means sufferers have a hatred of sounds such as eating, chewing, loud breathing or even repeated pen-clicking, was first named as a condition in 2001"

Kim returning to the courtroom was not very Kim-like.  It got me thinking she is getting a little more Jimmy-like.  I don't know how I feel about that.

Mike in the group - I guess we're supposed to see anger at himself coming out at other people, but he normally does not get in people's business where he does not have to.  A more expected reaction would have been to eyeroll toward Anita when the guy started up with his lying.  Speaking of Anita, the waitress asked her if she wanted her usual, so she and Mike have some kind of friendship going which may or may not be torpedoed by his outburst.

The cousins, yes, veering into the unrealistic.  They are finely tuned killing machines, I get it, but this was just mayhem with bullets flying everywhere, and only one of them maybe gets hit. 

[Bryce Lynch]

24 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I didn't follow last season, so to see Tamara Tunie was a TREAT for me. I really like her.  

Did anyone get the vibe that maybe, the cell phone store that Jimmy is now working might not be on the up and up?  When Jimmy's supervisor called, he seemed to be none too bothered that the place was not doing business.  And, he seemed to make up that they just did inventory. Telling him to bring a book to work. Come on?  Would a real person in the business of selling phones be so nonchalant about them not selling phones?  IDK....I wonder if the boss will be too happy with Jimmy calling attention to the place if it's a front.  Jimmy later displayed his talent for picking out fronts.   

Once again, I'm just delighted that the writers didn't follow some overdone response from Jimmy when Kim suggested that he see a therapist.  I detest the way it's normally handled where the person gets all defensive and says that they don't need to see a therapist, when they obviously do.  Jimmy may not go, but at least, his response was realistic and not cliche. 

I'm not into Nacho.  I'm just done with that.  So, due to his poor choices, he now puts his father and family's life in danger.  Please.

And yes, about some weird tape malfunction as soon as the judge returned to the courtroom.  He looked at Kim, started to say something and it cut to a commercial, like it was a glitch in the video.  Odd.  Did I miss anything after that?  When it returned, it was something else entirely.  

I agree about the cell phone store.  Something seems strange.  The manager seemed way to casual about the store being dead.  Also, why would "inventory week" boost sales dramatically?  When he mentioned that the Gold Street store was busier, it sounded like he pretended to check the schedule and see that it was filled.  It also doesn't make sense that he would be considering transferring Jimmy and leave his store unmanned.  

[JFParnell]

Going to watch this one again, as I end up doing all of them (it's actually a 20-episode season that just looks strangely repetitive every other episode).

I confess the judge-Kim scene caught me off guard, and it was good in that "OK, judge is a bit unto himself ... where is this going?" kind of way. Kind of funny how judges can boss around lawyers whenever they want -- even lawyers who aren't in a case before them. It was an interesting way for them to backfill Kim's emotions so we will understand better why she does whatever comes next. As I think (??) Bannon noted above, so many shows take so little care to do that. Good job, show.

The cousins are surreal, indestructible creatures (er, for now anyway) who defy all natural and physical laws. Wonder what they do for fun on a day off from work. Ping pong tournaments? Golf?

Watching it in the moment, I thought the trigger for Mike's slow-burn was less about the whole purpose of the group than about Stacey expressing gratitude that for periods of time she was able to not think about Matty. His dear Matty. I think in Mike's world view you never forget such a thing -- you let it haunt you because it's the honorable thing to do. Easier still when you're guilty about why he's dead. He's old school - we've all become too good at "moving on" from things to preserve our precious psyches. Then liar guy started in with his next sob story and everything went kablooey. That was my first impression anyway.

Jimmy who? He was almost a background character this ep, but because it's BCS we know there's more; they don't waste a single frame of footage, a single moment of storytelling, visual or dialogue, even if it seems like they might be. So it's hard to know now how cell phones and Hummels will play out into the future -- good catch above about Saul's drawer full of cell phones in BB -- but it's a safe bet these events will matter.

You know who will want a "big brother-free" cell phone? The gun dealer, Lawson, that's who. Not to mention drug dealers.

The hole is getting deeper for Nacho, and his poor Dad. He's written and played like a character who accepts he is likely a goner. He's no angel and never has been, but he does elicit sympathy somehow - which means they created a layered, non-cardboard character. And what do we think Gus's ask of Mike will be? Kill Nacho himself? That doesn't seem right, since Gus could do that himself anytime. Obviously something only Mike can do for him but what? Gus is always playing the long game so using Mike for something merely brutal and bloody seems unlikely. But whatever it is, it's big enough to justify the high-drama face-to-face. I'm too tired, and not enough coffee yet, to make some guesses :)

Random: I can't be the only one who misses Pryce the baseball-card guy can I? I'd hoped for another scene or two with him but I fear his story is played out. He cracks me up.

Edited August 28, 2018 by JFParnell
forgotten thought remembered

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

Watching it in the moment, I thought the trigger for Mike's slow-burn was less about the whole purpose of the group than about Stacey expressing gratitude that for periods of time she was able to not think about Matty. His dear Matty. I think in Mike's world view you never forget such a thing -- you let it haunt you because it's the honorable thing to do. Easier still when you're guilty about why he's dead. He's old school - we've all become too good at "moving on" from things to preserve our precious psyches. Then liar guy started in with his next sob story and everything went kablooey. That was my first impression anyway.

In my view, sucking it up and moving on from your grief is the "old school" way, especially for men.  I think the modern way is to indulge our sorrow and wallow in it more. It is possible he has an old school double standard, where widows are supposed to mourn much longer for their late husbands.  

I think Mike is probably trying to hide from his own grief and guilt, but I also think he might genuinely believe that the others are "All wrapped up in your sad, little stories, feeding off each other's misery"   Anita lost her husband 8 years ago, and just recently gave away his old clothes.  That seems like an excessive length of time to be in grief so deep that you need counseling.  Of course, her husband disappeared, so it probably took a long time for her to accept that he was gone, before she could begin grieving.

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Kim has to know that Jimmy isn't going to "talk to someone".  Not in any meaningful way anyway.  I was surprised that he didn't just didn't crumple up the post it and throw it away.

I  was wondering if the name Kim gave him was either the leader of Mike's grief counseling group or Dave, Marie's therapist from BB.  

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

This is the first episode of BCS that I thought veered into the unrealistic.

Kim disobeying a direct order from a judge.  Isn't that a really bad thing in lawyer-land, contempt of court or something?

Mike calling out all the honest people in the grief group. We know Mike can't get over the death of Matty and his own part in it, but how often does Mike think about his wife these days?  Stacey might actually be moving on a little better if Mike wasn't there silently guilting her about moving on.

The gun fight.  Please.  With all those armed thugs, and all that junk to hide behind, I can not believe one of those guys didn't get the drop on one of the Salamancas.  The satchels o' guns did make me laugh, though.

I'm probably just mad because I thought this was going to be a Kim episode and her time on screen was tiny compared to the drug world. 

Also, the sound of people eating makes me angry and causes me to hate the eater, (this is not an uncommon reaction*) so if that's not what we're supposed to do then that part of the directing is bad.

*Misophonia, a disorder which means sufferers have a hatred of sounds such as eating, chewing, loud breathing or even repeated pen-clicking, was first named as a condition in 2001"

The judge simply told her that if she keeps observing in his courtroom, he's going to assign her to defend some accused criminal, instead of the completely overwhelmed public defender's office. I think there is a good chance that this is exactly what happens.

Mike's almost offended by the thought of moving on, due to his feelings of guilt. That colors how he sees the group and Stacey. That doesn't make him right, but that is what his genuine feelings are.

As to the gun fight, it all depends on how well trained the fighters are. It's hard to hit a target, that is shooting back, when your andrenaline is flowing full blast, unless you've trained to do it. Dispatching the two sentries with a knife gave the Salamancas a leg up. If the opposing gang wasn't all that well trained (and most lower level drug gangs aren't), I could see the Salamancas prevailing, if they had received good training somewhere along the way. The biggest problem with reality is that unless  the place was way out in the middle of nowhere, which it did not appear to be, you can't have a 5-10 minute firefight, with a couple hundred rounds fired, and a minor explosion, without attracting law emforcement.

[msrachelj]

someone please explain to me the relationship between mike, stacy and matt. and how did matt die? i thought stacy was his daughter and matt his grandchild. did mike have a son that died? my memory has always been crap but i'm starting to worry about how much i forget! damn....

[Bryce Lynch]

12 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I thought he was going to assign her a case if she had come back into the courtroom, which she did.

Yeah.  I took him to mean something like, "I think you are a fool for wanting to get back into this crappy area of law, mostly defending lowlifes  in stupid, pathetic cases. But, if you are really a glutton for punishment, sit in my court and I will throw you PD work."  

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[Pike Ludwell]

49 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

It would bore the shit out of me to work at a store with no customers.

Do stuff on the computer, read a book, whatever. Count your blessings you are being paid for an easy job. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Pat Hoolihan

[PeterPirate]

I'm not going to say that Mike was necessarily right about what he did, but during the episode I figured the Fake Widower was there to get into Stacey's pants.   

Ethan Phillips and Mark Margolis both have bit parts in the movie Glory.  Phillip's voice and speaking style are distinctive.  I think we will see him again and his role will be to give Kim advice, much like Skyler's divorce attorney.  

Edited August 28, 2018 by PeterPirate

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

someone please explain to me the relationship between mike, stacy and matt. and how did matt die? i thought stacy was his daughter and matt his grandchild. did mike have a son that died? my memory has always been crap but i'm starting to worry about how much i forget! damn....

Stacey is the widow of Mike's son Matt.  Matt was an honest, young, cop in Philadelphia, in a crooked precinct.  When some crooked cops pressured Matt into taking bribes, Mike advised him to take the money, or risk being killed, and revealed that he took small bribes (mainly to get along).  Matt was crushed, but accepted the bribes.  The two cops killed him anyway, because they didn't believe he was really on board, and made it look like a shootout with a criminal.  Mike then took revenge by killing the 2 cops, and then moved to Albuquerque.  

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[SailorGirl]

7 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

 

I wish to support SailorGirl's opinion.  It is not easy to recognize an actor's talent and many people are quick to criticize others who make the kind of a post that agrees with someone else but does not post anything original.  Many people seem to object to other people whose posts do not contain any original opinions.  But, I want to give SailorGirl some acknowledgement because the very nature of Mr. Banks' performance makes it very difficult to spot his talent.  So, you go SailorGirl.

Wow! Thank you so much! I'm blushing over here! :-) 

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Interesting Easter egg in the episode.  Mike's friend Anita wears a name tag from Cradock Marine Bank.  This is the bank where Daniel Wachsberger puts the hazard pay and Kaylee's millions into the safe deposit boxes in BB.

This is the sloppiest, most un-Mike thing Mike ever did, having Kaylee's safe deposit box at the same bank branch where he had safe deposit boxes for the drug henchmen. Even very cautious people can make simple errors.

[Pike Ludwell]

Jonathan Banks is an ok enough actor. His character is a rather sleazy guy who easily insults people and is hard to like. All in all, nothing to get too excited about there. He does seem to have a good PR agent, and the cast and crew hypes to help him too.

[attica]

2 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

Did anyone else think of "The Great Escape" cooler scene when Jimmy was bouncing the ball?

I have no doubt that Jimmy was indeed imagining himself as Steve McQueen.

I love that Mike has an auditor's heart. No mistake gets by him, no matter the context. This is not a quality I have. I sometimes wish I did, and sometimes I'm glad I don't.

[teddysmom]

18 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

someone please explain to me the relationship between mike, stacy and matt. and how did matt die? i thought stacy was his daughter and matt his grandchild. did mike have a son that died? my memory has always been crap but i'm starting to worry about how much i forget! damn....

Watch Season 1, episode titled Five O.

Mike tells Stacy what happened. It is an acting tour de force by Jonathan Banks. 

If anyone here listens to the podcast BCS Insider, they had Joe DeRosa on last week. He plays the vet, he is a stand up comic and has done some acting in television in supporting roles before BCS.  He talks about how Jonathan took him under his wing, helped him run lines, etc. and that watching him on set is like a master class in acting.   

I have to say, I'm a lot like Mike.  I'm very suspicious of people and can usually spot bullshit a mile away.  It's amazing what you notice about people you live around if you just pay attention.  As far as grief,  I know these support groups help a lot of people, and I have a friend who is constantly reading positive reinforcement books, meditates etc.  It's fine if it works for her, but I can't imagine doing it myself.  

[msrachelj]

21 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Stacey is the widow of Mike's son Matt.  Matt was an honest, young, cop in Philadelphia, in a crooked precinct.  When some crooked cops pressured Matt into taking bribes, Mike advised him to take the money, or risk being killed, and revealed that he took small bribes (mainly to get along).  Matt was crushed, but accepted the bribes.  The two cops killed him anyway, because they didn't believe he was really on board, and made it look like a shootout with a criminal.  Mike then took revenge by killing the 2 cops, and then moved to Albuquerque.  

thank you! now it makes sense.

3 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Watch Season 1, episode titled Five O.

Mike tells Stacy what happened. It is an acting tour de force by Jonathan Banks. 

If anyone here listens to the podcast BCS Insider, they had Joe DeRosa on last week. He plays the vet, he is a stand up comic and has done some acting in television in supporting roles before BCS.  He talks about how Jonathan took him under his wing, helped him run lines, etc. and that watching him on set is like a master class in acting.   

I have to say, I'm a lot like Mike.  I'm very suspicious of people and can usually spot bullshit a mile away.  It's amazing what you notice about people you live around if you just pay attention.  As far as grief,  I know these support groups help a lot of people, and I have a friend who is constantly reading positive reinforcement books, meditates etc.  It's fine if it works for her, but I can't imagine doing it myself.  

i can't watch anywhere besides the tv. i am one of the forgotten who do not have broadband. it is a bitch! 

[Ellaria]

11 hours ago, tiredofwork said:

Did anyone else's station have a strange commercial cut in when the judge was looking to ask Kim to rep the guy in court?  What happened as it came back to a different scene?

Yes, I did. I DVRd it and watched it late last night. I think that this was AMC's fault; the cut to the commercial was done improperly.

9 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Definitely a slow-moving episode but lots of subcurrents going on -- one of the things Gilligan et al do best -- sometimes when things seem the dullest is when the most is going on underneath, building up. And I can't wait to see how they bring it all out. I remember that from BrBa -- the "boring" episodes always served a valuable purpose. I don't see this being any different. 

Agree. "Slow moving" doesn't necessarily mean nothing happened in the BCS/BB universe. While the shoot-em-up with the Salamancas maintained a level of action, I'm not sure that I needed to see it for that length of time. With every passing episode, it becomes clear that Nacho has a difficult road ahead of him.

 

44 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Kim has to know that Jimmy isn't going to "talk to someone".  Not in any meaningful way anyway.  I was surprised that he didn't just didn't crumple up the post it and throw it away.

Agree, especially the low-key manner in which she addressed it. She handed him the post-it note, offered the suggestion and waited for his reaction. She is "observing" Jimmy in the same way she is observing those court proceedings. At some point she will also figure out that he isn't really looking for a job, either. 

I think that Kim is at a crossroads in every aspect of her life. She doesn't want the work with Mesa Verde to define her life - the car accident, the apartment full of boxes. She is also certainly gaining a more thorough understanding of Jimmy. Kim is soon going to decide what she wants in life and it will be an important moment for this show.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, Bannon said:

This is the sloppiest, most un-Mike thing Mike ever did, having Kaylee's safe deposit box at the same bank branch where he had safe deposit boxes for the drug henchmen. Even very cautious people can make simple errors.

It was also stupid to use the same lawyer who was filling the safe deposit boxes to represent all 9 of his guys in jail.  That was what gave Hank the idea to follow him.  If he used an ordinary bag man to go to the bank, the DEA would not have had anything on him.  

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It was also stupid to use the same lawyer who was filling the safe deposit boxes to represent all 9 of his guys in jail.  That was what gave Hank the idea to follow him.  If he used an ordinary bag man to go to the bank, the DEA would not have had anything on him.  

Mike probably got greedy. Not for himself, but in the sense that every dollar he spent covering his tracks was a dollar not going to Kaylee. He wanted to have  the same lawyer for the nine, so nobody would be cutting an independent deal without his knowledge, and he needed a lawyer for the cash drops, not just an ordinary bagman, so he could have attorney-client privilege. He's also trying to help manage a major drug production and distribution business. Fatal shortcuts ensue.

[NoReally]

11 hours ago, tiredofwork said:

Did anyone else's station have a strange commercial cut in when the judge was looking to ask Kim to rep the guy in court?  What happened as it came back to a different scene?

Yep, I had that same, abrupt cut to commercial. Very odd. I rewound a few times and watched again to be sure I hadn't missed something.

[Bryce Lynch]

12 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Mike probably got greedy. Not for himself, but in the sense that every dollar he spent covering his tracks was a dollar not going to Kaylee. He wanted to have  the same lawyer for the nine, so nobody would be cutting an independent deal without his knowledge, and he needed a lawyer for the cash drops, not just an ordinary bagman, so he could have attorney-client privilege. He's also trying to help manage a major drug production and distribution business. Fatal shortcuts ensue.

Yes, I understand wanting his guys to all be represented by lawyers who were under his control, but using the same one for all 9 was a red flag.  But, to use that same lawyer, to put the cash in the safe deposit boxes, a job that any trusted person could have done, was really foolish.  It seems out of character for Mike to take foolish shortcuts.  He typically meticulously plans his crimes.  

He should have bought Kaylee a nail salon or laser tag place. :)

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[Bannon]

30 minutes ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

Jonathan Banks is an ok enough actor. His character is a rather sleazy guy who easily insults people and is hard to like. All in all, nothing to get too excited about there. He does seem to have a good PR agent, and the cast and crew hypes to help him too.

I don't know quite what to make of this comment. Mike Ehrmantraut, to me, is a very complex character, and a grief  guilt, and anger filled cauldron of qualities. Yes, he has chosen to participate in a business that ruins lives. That's sleazy. He's also a person who frequently does not try to maximize personal gain. He's nearly unfailingly honest about himself, without a molecule of hypocrisy. He can be difficult to like, but he also can inspire great respect and loyalty from others. I think the portrayal by Banks is magnificent.

[teddysmom]

26 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

i can't watch anywhere besides the tv. i am one of the forgotten who do not have broadband. it is a bitch!

DVDs at the library? It's worth watching. 

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

I don't know quite what to make of this comment. Mike Ehrmantraut, to me, is a very complex character, and a grief  guilt, and anger filled cauldron of qualities. Yes, he has chosen to participate in a business that ruins lives. That's sleazy. He's also a person who frequently does not try to maximize personal gain. He's nearly unfailingly honest about himself, without a molecule of hypocrisy. He can be difficult to like, but he also can inspire great respect and loyalty from others. I think the portrayal by Banks is magnificent.

ITA

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yes, I understand wanting his guys to all be represented by lawyers who were under his control, but using the same one for all 9 was a red flag.  But, to use that same lawyer, to put the cash in the safe deposit boxes, a job that any trusted person could have done, was really foolish.  It seems out of character for Mike to take foolish shortcuts.  He typically meticulously plans his crimes.  

The trusted person putting the money in the safe deposit boxes really should have been a lawyer, albeit a different one.

[teddysmom]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Kim disobeying a direct order from a judge.  Isn't that a really bad thing in lawyer-land, contempt of court or something?

Can a judge really keep a member of the public out of his courtroom? She's not doing anything wrong, just watching. She isn't soliciting clients.

Or maybe that's what she wants, is for him to make her defend people, and maybe build up a client base for Jimmy when his 10 months is up. 

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Mike probably got greedy. Not for himself, but in the sense that every dollar he spent covering his tracks was a dollar not going to Kaylee. He wanted to have  the same lawyer for the nine, so nobody would be cutting an independent deal without his knowledge, and he needed a lawyer for the cash drops, not just an ordinary bagman, so he could have attorney-client privilege. He's also trying to help manage a major drug production and distribution business. Fatal shortcuts ensue.

Spoiler

Didn't Saul call him out at the end of BB when the lawyer got arrested? 

[Bryce Lynch]

12 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The trusted person putting the money in the safe deposit boxes really should have been a lawyer, albeit a different one.

I don't see much need for him to be a lawyer.  Plus, a crooked lawyer is one of the last people he should trust.  It would have been much smarter have a few boxes at 3 or 4 different banks, instead of all of them in one bank, which would have been more likely to raise suspicion, if Dan didn't distract the employees with banana bacon cookies and cake pops.

Actually, except for Kaylee's money, why use a bank at all?  Why not do dead drops, in abandoned buildings, holes on the side of the road, etc.    It worked for Fring's drug empire.   Or just have the bag man give the relatives the cash at Taco Cabeza? Nobody ever gets shot there.  Or, to quote Tuco, "What, they close the mall or something?"

11 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Can a judge really keep a member of the public out of his courtroom? She's not doing anything wrong, just watching. She isn't soliciting clients.

Or maybe that's what she wants, is for him to make her defend people, and maybe build up a client base for Jimmy when his 10 months is up. 

  Hide contents

Didn't Saul call him out at the end of BB when the lawyer got arrested? 

Yes, Saul berated Mike for hiring outside counsel, without consulting him and called Dan Wachsberger "that clown of a lawyer".  

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[PeterPirate]

Just now, teddysmom said:

Can a judge really keep a member of the public out of his courtroom? She's not doing anything wrong, just watching. She isn't soliciting clients.

Or maybe that's what she wants, is for him to make her defend people, and maybe build up a client base for Jimmy when his 10 months is up. 

Kim isn't doing anything illegal or unethical, but the judge quickly sized up that she was looking for some kind of redemption.  

When he called Kim into his chambers and said he had a case for her, she immediately leaned forward, which was a tell that she was looking for something else to do.  

Kim, like Chuck before her, is unraveling due to her association with Jimmy McGill. 

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Why?  The owners of the copier store thought the Hummel was nothing but junk anyway.

1) Jimmy's new partner might realize he left the glove and do something dumb like go back to get it.

2) The store owners might hire a detective to investigate the strange happenings with the car alarm. Since one of them is having problems with his wife, he might want to learn what's going on.

3) Someone might notice the glove.

 

I prob could imagine a few more scenarios. In the wacky world of TV, the writers can come up with all kinds of strange possibilities. But instead of trying to answer your question of "Why?", let me ask you the question, "Why not?".  Why would the writers go to the trouble to showing us his leaving the glove if they didn't intend to do something about it?

Bottom line, it's just speculation. Either one of us may well be right. TV is a place where most anything can happen.

Edited August 28, 2018 by MissBluxom

[gallimaufry]

Yeah, Mike's end was really disappointing.  So much so that I'd love to think that there was a ruse we're not aware of going on between Saul and Mike and he got away.  I don't think his death is ambiguous, sadly, but I still hope there's more to that sequence than meets the eye.

Another thing that really worked about the teaser is that the present day scene is from the middle of the episode.  It's like this is all that's playing through Mike's mind during what he's saying.  I'd almost love to see this edited so that the flashbacks are side by side with his "talk".

Another nice touch.  He talks about Henry having "a tell" and Gus having "an ask".  It's an interesting turn of phrase and I like that it backs up the idea that Mike really doesn't need words to read people.

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't see much need for him to be a lawyer.  Plus, a crooked lawyer is one of the last people he should trust.  It would have been much smarter have a few boxes at 3 or 4 different banks, instead of all of them in one bank, which would have been more likely to raise suspicion, if Dan didn't distract the employees with banana bacon cookies and cake pops.

Actually, except for Kaylee's money, why use a bank at all.  Why not do dead drops, in abandoned buildings, holes on the side of the road, etc.    It worked for Fring's drug empire.   Or just have the bag man give the relatives the cash at Taco Cabeza? Nobody ever gets shot there.  Or, to quote Tuco, "What, they close the mall or something?"

It is better to have someone who can't be threatened by law enforcement for failing to provide infornation, or is at least harder to threaten. The reality is that it is really almost impossible to find someone to trust as a long term bagman.  Complex criminal enterprises are hard things to manage.

[Bannon]

There's some irony in the fact that Mike would likely actually be worth every penny Madrigal is paying him, even if Madrigal was actually paying him. He's a terrific security consultant. If only Lydia wasn't a criminal herself.....

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

There's some irony in the fact that Mike would likely actually be worth every penny Madrigal is paying him, even if Madrigal was actually paying him. He's a terrific security consultant. If only Lydia wasn't a criminal herself.....

He seems to be going beyond security into quality control for their shipping operation.  Ironically, you might be able to call him a logistics consultant, which is what Lydia was originally going to put him on the payroll as.  

With his attention to detail with the temperature, maybe he could have taken over Walt's meth cook, if Fring had Walt killed.  

[ShadowFacts]

49 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I don't know quite what to make of this comment. Mike Ehrmantraut, to me, is a very complex character, and a grief  guilt, and anger filled cauldron of qualities. Yes, he has chosen to participate in a business that ruins lives. That's sleazy. He's also a person who frequently does not try to maximize personal gain. He's nearly unfailingly honest about himself, without a molecule of hypocrisy. He can be difficult to like, but he also can inspire great respect and loyalty from others. I think the portrayal by Banks is magnificent.

He is complex but he's more than sleazy, he's a murderer.  I'm not sure he's hypocrisy-free.  He is in a grief group that he never wanted to be in, only did it because Stacey asked, but clearly disdains these people and how they are handling their own unique situations.  It's a little bit like he holds himself above other people and their feelings.  I can't see him ever returning to the group, and I wonder how that plays out with Stacey and Anita.   I think the acting is quite good, he shows nuance without much dialog. 

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, ShadowFacts said:

He is complex but he's more than sleazy, he's a murderer.  I'm not sure he's hypocrisy-free.  He is in a grief group that he never wanted to be in, only did it because Stacey asked, but clearly disdains these people and how they are handling their own unique situations.  It's a little bit like he holds himself above other people and their feelings.  I can't see him ever returning to the group, and I wonder how that plays out with Stacey and Anita.   I think the acting is quite good, he shows nuance without much dialog. 

I don't think Mike comes off as "sleazy".   He is becoming a ruthless, professional criminal, though he only kills people who are "in the game".  Jimmy/Saul is what I would consider "sleazy".  There are worse things than sleazy, for example, Hector and the cold-blooded Cousins, who will kill anyone who is inconvenient for them.  

It seems like the writers on BB and BCS don't write many "sleazy" characters.  They write a lot of criminals, drug dealers and killers, but most of them have a certain amount of dignity and in some cases honor, which makes them more complex.  Lydia, has a certain, strange, upscale sleaziness to her and Eladio comes across a bit sleazy, but I can't think of any others.

[Bryce Lynch]

Another little Easter egg.  When Kim asked the court officer what was on the docket, he mentioned a few judges including "Papadoumian".  

In BB, she was the (unseen) judge who granted Mike the restraining order against the DEA preventing them from following Mike, giving him time to setup the buyout.  Even Saul knew it was a bad ruling and wouldn't hold up to appeal.  Hank wondered what kind of judge would issue such a ruling, and Gomie, expressed for far Left she was by saying, "She's like Ho Chi Minh".  I loved Gomie's historical references, in the show,  but while she may have shared some of his political views, I kind of doubt Ho Chi Minh was one to go overboard protecting civil liberties. :)

[ShadowFacts]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think Mike comes off as "sleazy".   He is becoming a ruthless, professional criminal, though he only kills people who are "in the game".  Jimmy/Saul is what I would consider "sleazy".  There are worse things than sleazy, for example, Hector and the cold-blooded Cousins, who will kill anyone who is inconvenient for them.  

It seems like the writers on BB and BCS don't write many "sleazy" characters.  They write a lot of criminals, drug dealers and killers, but most of them have a certain amount of dignity and in some cases honor, which makes them more complex.  Lydia, has a certain, strange, upscale sleaziness to her and Eladio comes across a bit sleazy, but I can't think of any others.

Depends on how you define sleazy.  By the dictionary--sordid, corrupt, immoral--that is exactly what the meth business is, through and through, and Mike is in it.  Security consultant for a kingpin.  He may intend to only kill people in the game, but it doesn't always play out that way (Drew Sharp).  He may have more dignity than Hector et al, but that's not saying much.  He starts out with a goal of amassing a lot of money for Kaylee, but quickly embraces his own criminality.  Much like Walt did. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

Better Call Saul Tries To Talk Things Through

Mike develops a theory about one of his fellow support-group grievers, while Jimmy develops a plan for marketing cell phones to a specific kind of customer in our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of 'Talk.'

[Bannon]

39 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

He is complex but he's more than sleazy, he's a murderer.  I'm not sure he's hypocrisy-free.  He is in a grief group that he never wanted to be in, only did it because Stacey asked, but clearly disdains these people and how they are handling their own unique situations.  It's a little bit like he holds himself above other people and their feelings.  I can't see him ever returning to the group, and I wonder how that plays out with Stacey and Anita.   I think the acting is quite good, he shows nuance without much dialog. 

I don't know if Mike is a hypocrite for attending grief meetings that Stacey wants him to attend. Doing things that another person wants you to do, and you are inclined to agree to do because that person controls something that is dear to you, doesn't make you a hypocrite.

I'd say the closest Mike came to hypocrisy was when he became furious at Walt for killing Gus, as if Walt was just supposed to let Gus kill him and be replaced by Gale. That whole story arc got a bit compromised early on, however, when they realized that Aaron Paul's Jesse Pinkman was too important to the audience to kill off, as had been the original plan.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bannon

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

I don't know quite what to make of this comment. Mike Ehrmantraut, to me, is a very complex character, and a grief  guilt, and anger filled cauldron of qualities. Yes, he has chosen to participate in a business that ruins lives. That's sleazy. He's also a person who frequently does not try to maximize personal gain. He's nearly unfailingly honest about himself, without a molecule of hypocrisy. He can be difficult to like, but he also can inspire great respect and loyalty from others. I think the portrayal by Banks is magnificent.

19 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think Mike comes off as "sleazy".   He is becoming a ruthless, professional criminal, though he only kills people who are "in the game".  Jimmy/Saul is what I would consider "sleazy".  There are worse things than sleazy, for example, Hector and the cold-blooded Cousins, who will kill anyone who is inconvenient for them.  

Well said. Mike is one of the great characters in this age of TV. As @Bannon said, he is incredibly complex and that's what makes him fascinating. It is a not a matter of a good PR agent. Jonathan Banks is terrific in the role. The writing for Mike has been consistently on point throughout BCS and BB. Just when you think you understand him, you see that there is more...both good and bad. His internal struggle between dignity and ruthlessness elevates this character beyond the usual TV trope of "bad guys."

[nodorothyparker]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

It would bore the shit out of me to work at a store with no customers.

And lots of people would consider it basically free money while they use the time to do something else.  There are stories about a number of great American novels written on such jobs.  

For all that Jimmy and Mike don't superficially seem to be much alike, it's interesting that neither can just accept the check without creating work to justify it. But as we see in the scene accepting the larger than expected Hummel payout interspersed with his adventures at the cell phone store, the money itself regardless of amount doesn't seem to be much of an incentive for Jimmy.  It's about having something to do that interests and challenges him, which we already knew about him from his misadventures at Davis & Main.

[sempervivum]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree about the cell phone store.  Something seems strange.  The manager seemed way to casual about the store being dead.  Also, why would "inventory week" boost sales dramatically?  When he mentioned that the Gold Street store was busier, it sounded like he pretended to check the schedule and see that it was filled.  It also doesn't make sense that he would be considering transferring Jimmy and leave his store unmanned.  

Retail stores always take deep markdowns on aged merchandise prior to inventory so that their 'owned' assets will be lowered for tax purposes. Savvy shoppers know when their favorite store does inventory (usually in January, but it depends on the corporation's' fiscal calendar).

I'm pretty sure the manager was factoring in a new hire or transfer to cover the store before sending Jimmy away to a different location. However, I agree that there is something odd about the manager not caring if the store was busy. All retailers keep extensive sales projections based on square footage and managers are directly responsible for explaining decreases and demonstrating some strategy to increase sales. A relatively short period of 'no sales' or very low sales would lead to termination.

I have to say, when the camera pulled back and panned the 'PRIVACY SOLD HERE' sign, it was probably the most engrossing part of this episode for me! Weird, I know, but as you may be able to guess from my first comment, I'm a long-time retailer, and Jimmy's brilliant grasp of marketing just tickled me. Being Jimmy, he of course bypassed a standard appeal to customer wants/needs, and zoomed right in to something potentially criminal. I bet when the company's manager finally visits, Jimmy's store will be doing crazy great business. (And then he'll be fired, heh).

Re. Mike's behavior in the therapy group: how likely is it that his relationship with Anita goes anywhere after his outburst?!

[Bryce Lynch]

When Ira asked Jimmy if he knew where he could steal more Hummels did anyone else think Jimmy paused for a moment, thinking about whether to tell Ira about Mrs. Strauss and the other Hummel hoarding geezers at Sandpiper before deciding against it?

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yes, I understand wanting his guys to all be represented by lawyers who were under his control, but using the same one for all 9 was a red flag.  But, to use that same lawyer, to put the cash in the safe deposit boxes, a job that any trusted person could have done, was really foolish.  It seems out of character for Mike to take foolish shortcuts.  He typically meticulously plans his crimes. 

But the whole point was that it was a hastily jury-rigged system, right? Originally all their funds got paid into their offshore accounts, but after Walt's magnet scheme exposed Gus's financials, they had to scramble to set up a new way to keep the hazard pay flowing so no one would be tempted to flip. So it makes sense to me that it was not airtight.

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

1) Jimmy's new partner might realize he left the glove and do something dumb like go back to get it.

He did realize he'd left the glove. We see him grab it back the first time Neff leaves the room.

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

Re. Mike's behavior in the therapy group: how likely is it that his relationship with Anita goes anywhere after his outburst?!

I am wondering if Anita becomes Mike's version of Jesse's Andrea.  

They both met the women in group counseling at the church.

Both women are minorities with somewhat similar, dark, curly hair.

Both of their names start with An and end in a.   

[ShadowFacts]

22 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I don't know if Mike is a hypocrite for attending grief meetings that Stacey wants him to attend. Doing things that another person wants you to do, and you are inclined to agree to do because that person controls something that is dear to you, doesn't make you a hypocrite.

Not hypocritical for initially acquiescing to go, I agree.  For staying while letting his anger at these people whose style of grief annoys him, a little bit hypocritical.  And not a good look when he releases the anger.  He needed to just quit going. 

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But the whole point was that it was a hastily jury-rigged system, right? Originally all their funds got paid into their offshore accounts, but after Walt's magnet scheme exposed Gus's financials, they had to scramble to set up a new way to keep the hazard pay flowing so no one would be tempted to flip. So it makes sense to me that it was not airtight.

But, Mike could normally come up with excellent schemes.  I guess one explanation could be that everyone Mike trusted was in jail.  Still, the safe deposit box scheme was dumb.  It required the lawyer to make regular appearances and to open about 10 boxes in front of a bank employee, and then to have 10 family members of Mike incarcerated guys to come to the bank to open those same boxes, a short time later.   The more I think about it, the more I am convinced the bank employees would have been very suspicious and would have reported it to management or the police.  

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Not hypocritical for initially acquiescing to go, I agree.  For staying while letting his anger at these people whose style of grief annoys him, a little bit hypocritical.  And not a good look when he releases the anger.  He needed to just quit going. 

I agree he should stop attending, but if the person who controls what you value most wants you to keep attending, that's likely what you are going to do. That's not hypocritical, in my view.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Not hypocritical for initially acquiescing to go, I agree.  For staying while letting his anger at these people whose style of grief annoys him, a little bit hypocritical.  And not a good look when he releases the anger.  He needed to just quit going. 

I don't think it was hypocritical to keep going with Stacey, if Stacey thought it helped her.  Plus, I'm not sure Mike felt that way all along.  I think perhaps, the memory he had about young Matt and the cement was about him finally starting to really grieve and the outburst was about him not being able to handle it.  Since Matt's death, he has been very busy scheming to kill the cops who murdered him, getting out of town, helping Stacey and Kaylee, working at the parking lot, doing a couple of jobs for Jimmy, plotting to get Tuco imprisoned, robbing Salamanca trucks, plotting to kill Hector, finding out who was tracking him, doing a job for Gus, etc.   Once he had the big score from the truck robbery and a way to launder it, and quit his job, he clearly got bored, and the boredom may have given him more time to feel the grief.   That might be why he wanted to keep busy by doing his fake Madrigal job for real.  

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bryce Lynch