Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[apinknightmare]

23 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

This entire thing was about her and Felicity and her not saying "sorry",

to which I think her working with her to get Diaz and free Oliver is her own way of apologizing. She still has ways to go in becoming a better person.

Yes, I am able to follow the conversation.

And I'm saying that if she truly felt sorry for the thing that she is allegedly apologizing to Felicity for - which is the same thing that she is for whatever reason ALSO blaming Oliver for at the same time she's allegedly apologizing to Felicity for it - that she would take full responsibility for the thing that she did. Instead she's playing nice with Felicity to make up for the bad thing she did, while simultaneously placing blame on Felicity's husband for that same thing, which doesn't exactly seem remorseful to me, but whatever.

Maybe the simpler answer is that she and Felicity are working together for a common goal, and she isn't exactly apologizing for anything.

Edited November 26, 2018 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

So BS is a straight up sociopath, right? People who take a dark turn due to life circumstances don't usually have to learn empathy. They might have to fight their way back from a dark spot, but it's not generally am emotion that's foreign. BS took pleasure in killing people including those who were innocent of crime other than being in her way. The Show apparently wants to forget all that, but helping get Oliver out of prison is the bare, minimum least she can do since she's part of why he's there to begin with.  

[way2interested]

[apinknightmare]

I'm gonna get real emotional if Diaz manages to escape again, that's for sure.

Also, for those curious about what else might be happening in this episode:

Quote

There is no B story; there is no villain of the week—just wall-to-prison-wall ass kicking. 

.......

The episode plays out almost in real time as one long fight between Oliver, Diaz, the guards, and the rest of the prisoners let loose (including Michael Jai White’s Ben Turner, a.k.a. Bronze Tiger). 

Edited November 26, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

I suppose they had to end this prison arc with a bang! But I’m not someone who watches Arrow for the stunts/action so I hope this holds my interest. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

I could watch a full 42-minute fight if Oliver's the one kicking ass and outsmarting people. I cannot watch 42 minutes of Diaz's dumb ass parading around with flamethrowers and being generally extra as he yells in his stupid bargain basement Pacino voice. 

Please spare me, Beth!

[JJ928]

I'm hoping the SA tease of: fever dreams, and EBR teasing a reunion that may not be real, means we at least get him dreaming of Felicity. 45 minutes of just Oliver and Diaz sounds tedious.

[Chaser]

I guess we have to wait till 7x08 to see Maya.

I like how the Reddit guy pointed out barely any Felicity when it sounds like 'barely any' applies to every character but Oliver.

[Trisha]

If there's "barely any" Felicity that implies there's some -- and if there's no b-plot because everything happens in the prison than I'm more hopeful we'll get a reunion scene at the end. I'm actually kind of intrigued that the episode plays out in real time. (That, and the fact that Laura Hurley dug it and I almost always agree with her takes, and Rebecca Bellotto is one of the writers and I will love her forever for Oliver's brushoff of Susan... )

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, Trisha said:

If there's "barely any" Felicity that implies there's some

Yeah, it's kind of hilarious that by saying "barely any," that reddit person basically confirmed that Felicity might be like the only other series regular in the episode. If we want to be technical with "barely any scenes," I'm guessing that might be a beginning fever dream and a real quick ending moment to bookend the episode.

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I'm actually kind of intrigued that the episode plays out in real time.

Same, and kind of impressed since that sounds like a technical nightmare and hassle.

[apinknightmare]

I just want Oliver out, and I want to know how Oliver gets out, and I want to know what happens with Diaz because he is somehow still around in episode 12. He's like an infection with no known cure Beth WHYYYYYYY.

Also hoping that "barely" any Felicity involves her and Oliver having a nice happy reunion, crying while running into each other's arms with kissing-slash-burying their faces into each others' necks and breathing in REAL deep as they hold each other let me have it pls. 

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe since the big reunion isn't until 708 we're going to see a phone call between Oliver and Felicity near the end of the episode? Maybe a "I'm coming home"/"You're coming home" exchange? 

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I guess we have to wait till 7x08 to see Maya.

 

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

If there's "barely any" Felicity that implies there's some -- and if there's no b-plot because everything happens in the prison than I'm more hopeful we'll get a reunion scene at the end. I'm actually kind of intrigued that the episode plays out in real time. (That, and the fact that Laura Hurley dug it and I almost always agree with her takes, and Rebecca Bellotto is one of the writers and I will love her forever for Oliver's brushoff of Susan... )

Where are these spoilers coming from? 

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Where are these spoilers coming from? 

The "barely any Felicity" is coming from a reddit post by someone who claimed to have spoilers that may or may not be true, although I'm guessing that is true based on the whole thing taking place in real time in prison, which comes from an interview Stephen and James did with The Mary Sue posted further up on this page (which would also mean that there are no flash forwards in this episode). From the article:

Quote

There is no B story; there is no villain of the week—just wall-to-prison-wall ass kicking. 

.......

The episode plays out almost in real time as one long fight between Oliver, Diaz, the guards, and the rest of the prisoners let loose (including Michael Jai White’s Ben Turner, a.k.a. Bronze Tiger). 

Edited November 26, 2018 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

Thanks. I missed that. 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

Thanks. I missed that. 

No worries - things get lost in the shuffle!

[Mary0360]

The writer from The Mary Sue is also praising the Ep: 

I have to think women media people liking the episode means there must be something else to it but wall to wall fighting, but it wouldn't be the first time the media have hyped an episode and it not live up to expectation. And the writers seem to be hyping this one extra hard. 

[insomniadreams88]

No sneak peeks? That's strange. I'm sure they could have found a minute they could've released without risking it being too spoiler-y. 

[way2interested]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

No sneak peeks? That's strange. I'm sure they could have found a minute they could've released without risking it being too spoiler-y. 

No sneak peeks for Supergirl or LoT either (LoT did get a producer's preview though), so it's not just Arrow

24 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

but it wouldn't be the first time the media have hyped an episode and it not live up to expectation. And the writers seem to be hyping this one extra hard. 

If it does end up being just a moderate/good episode (like 523 was, it may have been overhyped but it was far from bad), I'm guessing it's the technical aspects, not just stunts per se, but how the episode is paced and filmed (including how hard the cast and crew seemed to work on it) of the productions that elevated the episode for these media people.

[Chaser]

I wasn't looking forward the episode before (limited Felicity, FFs, NGA), but I'm kind of intrigued now. I like action and good stunts, so Oliver trying to survive on his own in a fast paced, dangerous environment sounds like it could be good. I just hope they limited the amount of time mumbles is on my screen.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

If it does end up being just a moderate/good episode (like 523 was, it may have been overhyped but it was far from bad), I'm guessing it's the technical aspects, not just stunts per se, but how the episode is paced and filmed (including how hard the cast and crew seemed to work on it) of the productions that elevated the episode for these media people.

See, this I can believe and understand. But I do find it difficult to think that any episode with Diaz as a semi-major part of it (as it seems he is) could be one of the best/favorites of the entire series. But I am well aware that's my hatred of Diaz affecting my judgment and I'm perfectly okay with that. 

I do wonder if it'll feel like a bit of a reboot of Diaz, in the sense that the Diaz we'll see tonight is one that ignores every single previous episode he's been in and suddenly he'll actually be a "big bad" level threat. If so and if that's what they want me to think, I'm going to need them to erase my memory of S6/701-706 Diaz using one of LoT's devices. 

[Trisha]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

If it does end up being just a moderate/good episode (like 523 was, it may have been overhyped but it was far from bad), I'm guessing it's the technical aspects, not just stunts per se, but how the episode is paced and filmed (including how hard the cast and crew seemed to work on it) of the productions that elevated the episode for these media people.

I definitely think the technical aspects are a big part of what critics are loving. There always seems to be a lot of critical praise when a show attempts a giant one-shot (Daredevil, Haunting of Hill House, etc), and they're certainly talking up tonight's oner:

Quote

One goal of the episode was to take full advantage of the multi-story Slabside prison set, which Bamford thought had been under-utilized in the top of the season. The fact that the set was built in-studio allowed fight coordinator Robinson to rehearse with his team extensively in the space before the shoot.

This came in extremely handy for the centerpiece of the episode: a single continuous shot that moves through multiple levels of the Slabside set, just aas Bamford and co. envisioned. The shot was accomplished with a technocrane, as well as hours of rehearsals by the stunt men and actors. Even within this long shot, there were many “cowboy switches,” where a stunt double will step into frame as an actor steps out, or vice versa, and stunt men and riggers doing setups out of frame while the camera was rolling.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

See, this I can believe and understand. But I do find it difficult to think that any episode with Diaz as a semi-major part of it (as it seems he is) could be one of the best/favorites of the entire series.

Maybe he won't be and he'll just be in a few scenes mumbling incoherently, and the rest of the episode is Oliver taking out guards and other prisoners until he finally breaks the 3D printer and takes him out of commission for...not nearly long enough, because it seems like they're back on that set in 11 based on BTS pics.

I wonder if they're talking up this episode so much because they think it might be their shot at getting a stunts Emmy? 

[statsgirl]

Between the Mary Sue write-up and the crossover description, I'm not feeling any anticipation for either of these episodes. Is there a MSF episode before the hiatus or should I just go into stasis right now? 

[Primal Slayer]

34 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

I do wonder if it'll feel like a bit of a reboot of Diaz, in the sense that the Diaz we'll see tonight is one that ignores every single previous episode he's been in and suddenly he'll actually be a "big bad" level threat. If so and if that's what they want me to think, I'm going to need them to erase my memory of S6/701-706 Diaz using one of LoT's devices. 

It'll totally be a soft reboot of the character. He has a hard time taking on Diggle even with his new drugs. I hope they reveal he let himself get caught.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Between the Mary Sue write-up and the crossover description, I'm not feeling any anticipation for either of these episodes. Is there a MSF episode before the hiatus or should I just go into stasis right now? 

Next week is the MSF.

[statsgirl]

So the crossover is after the MSF and is outside of the show's storyline? I guess that's a relief.

Quote

Bamford was part of the original conception for this mini action movie. “The episode was born of a conversation Mark Guggenheim and I had,” Bamford told us. At the time, Guggenheim suggested doing an episode with “three words, and the rest of it is action!” He upped the ante, suggesting the idea that the entire episode was one shot, a la Birdman.

Why do people listen when MG gets these "brilliant" ideas? 

[Sunshine]

34 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

So the crossover is after the MSF and is outside of the show's storyline? I guess that's a relief.

Why do people listen when MG gets these "brilliant" ideas? 

I thought they said the crossover episode was the MSF. (They being MG and Bam).  

[Trisha]

Diaz to (or about) Oliver? 

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I thought they said the crossover episode was the MSF. (They being MG and Bam).  

I think they meant that it's the midseason finale in that it's the last episode of Arrow this year. The mid-season finale for the storylines that we've been following on Arrow so far this season is next week- I don't know how they could bring any of that to a close during the crossover given the subject matter. The Flash's MSF is also next week (not during the crossover). 

[insomniadreams88]

[apinknightmare]

If Diaz has the prison guards and the riot police working for him, I SWEAR TO GOD, SHOW.

[insomniadreams88]

I just hope we don't have to deal with Diaz mumble-taunting Oliver over a walkie-talkie for most of the episode. We'll never understand what he's saying.

[apinknightmare]

Does anyone get what's going on here? My best guess is that Diaz breaks in and calls Oliver out over the loudspeaker and his cell is the only one that opens. If he's getting early release I don't really understand why the guard is so far away from him? Or why the riot squad is closing in. The action was cool, but the reasoning behind it is going to be so achingly dumb, I can tell.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Does anyone get what's going on here? My best guess is that Diaz breaks in and calls Oliver out over the loudspeaker and his cell is the only one that opens. If he's getting early release I don't really understand why the guard is so far away from him? Or why the riot squad is closing in. The action was cool, but the reasoning behind it is going to be so achingly dumb, I can tell.

Because prison guards must be shady at all times on television?

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Because prison guards must be shady at all times on television?

Oh, I definitely think they're all shady, I just couldn't really figure out the situation. Like why Oliver is the only one out of his cell - it must be because Diaz opened it? If it was because he was getting released I don't know why everyone would be so far away from him.

[BkWurm1]

21 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

 

And I'm saying that if she truly felt sorry for the thing that she is allegedly apologizing to Felicity for - which is the same thing that she is for whatever reason ALSO blaming Oliver for at the same time she's allegedly apologizing to Felicity for it - that she would take full responsibility for the thing that she did. Instead she's playing nice with Felicity to make up for the bad thing she did, while simultaneously placing blame on Felicity's husband for that same thing, which doesn't exactly seem remorseful to me, but whatever.

Maybe the simpler answer is that she and Felicity are working together for a common goal, and she isn't exactly apologizing for anything.

 

I think that BS started working with Felicity because they had a common goal.  I don't think she was apologizing for Diaz getting away or for what that did to Felicity's life, I doubt she really even thinks much about the connection to her action, but that she did still regret Diaz getting away, mostly for her own revenge reasons but she did seem to actually have some empathy for what Felicity was going through in wanting her revenge against Diaz for taking her family away.  And later, BS tried to help get Oliver out for Felicity and that I think was because Felicity's plea for help got through to her.  Which hey, it would be great if she just took it upon herself but at least she felt something?

So it's a complicated thing where I do believe that BS has a sort of attachment to Felicity while also not yet taking any responsibility for the pain Felicity has gone through with trying to deal with an escaped Diaz. She did give an apology to Dinah for melting Vince's brains but maybe that bad was more obvious to her?  

I don't whether they are trying to write BS as a psychopath that doesn't have the ability to naturally feel empathy and has to be taught what it looks like and when it's appropriate or someone that cut those feelings out for a very long time and is relearning and starting to feel again.  To be honest, I never thought E-1 Laurel was terribly empathetic to others so I'm willing to kind of meet somewhere in the middle on the question.  

If Felicity ever gets an apology, I think it would be a ways down the road when BS is much farther on her arc, assuming she sticks to the redemption path.  I still think the best outcome would be her realizing that she does need to own her actions and that would result in her going back to E2 where she did the majority of her damage and making amends there by being their BC.  But now I wonder if they'd save that for if Arrow ended.    

-------   

Just watched the preview.

I don't think they are showing the guards are corrupt.  I think Diaz has made an ultimatum to come see him and maybe even got him out of his cell and the guards aren't willing to let him go.  Hence the line about kissing his early release goodbye would be him disobeying them since of course they wouldn't understand Oliver needing to go whether because of some threat Diaz made or Oliver just needing to confront him

Edited November 27, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Primal Slayer]

So Oliver is a free man now and first thing he does is suit up as Green Arrow which is still illegal? 

[Soulfire]

[Mary0360]

So Diaz is dead right? Cause that's what I'm reading on twitter.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

So Oliver is a free man now and first thing he does is suit up as Green Arrow which is still illegal? 

Maybe it's not? Channel 52 lady mentioned people were rethinking the law after Diaz got caught with the help of the new Green Arrow. Maybe they've overturned it or the cops have softened enough that they aren't enforcing it (since Dinah doesn't seem to be all that worried about it).

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

So Diaz is dead right? Cause that's what I'm reading on twitter.

I doubt it. He's still been filming if im not mistaken.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

I doubt it. He's still been filming if im not mistaken.

Yeah, sadly he has. 

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe it's not? Channel 52 lady mentioned people were rethinking the law after Diaz got caught with the help of the new Green Arrow. Maybe they've overturned it or the cops have softened enough that they aren't enforcing it (since Dinah doesn't seem to be all that worried about it).

Maybe they'll address it at the beginning of the episode? Just weird that Oliver suits up so quickly. I know they probably wont address the whole fact that he suits back up maskless as if that will make his and his families day lives any easier. Idk it'll be interesting. 

[Trisha]

“We do work it out pretty quickly.” Yassss! From TV Line:

https://tvline.com/2018/11/26/arrow-recap-season-7-episode-7-oliver-felicity-reunion/

Quote

During their battle, Diaz told a disbelieving Oliver that Felicity almost shot him, and “pretty quickly, [Oliver learns] that a lot of the stuff that Diaz was saying about Felicity is true,” star Stephen Amellpreviewed during TVLine’s recent set visit, adding that he and his TV wife Emily Bett Rickards share “some really fantastic scenes” in next Monday’s episode.

While reconciling this new, darker version of Felicity takes some adjustment, “we do work it out pretty quickly,” Amell said. “We come to an understanding that nothing’s ever going to be perfect. … Nothing’s ever going to be perfect or normal about our relationship, and I think that the sooner that the two of them accept that, the sooner that they can move on with their lives.”

[Mary0360]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, sadly he has. 

Fingers crossed he's a ghost or another drug induced hallucination then.

5 minutes ago, Trisha said:

“We do work it out pretty quickly.” Yassss! From TV Line:

https://tvline.com/2018/11/26/arrow-recap-season-7-episode-7-oliver-felicity-reunion/

Good old Amell. O don't really like you much as a person anymore but you are always good about not over exaggerating or making things sound doom and gloom for the sake of click bait. 

 

This sound like their issues are contained within the episode and not something that's going to carry on. 

[insomniadreams88]

I wonder if the decision Felicity stands by in 708 is that she planned to kill Diaz? 

Oliver: "So, Diaz said something when I was fighting him, that you pulled a gun on him?"

Felicity: "Yes, I did. And?"

That becomes "Felicity stands by her recent decisions regarding her family."

[KenyaJ]

This summer, I would've been really disappointed to hear that Oliver and Felicity work through their issues quickly, but now I'm ecstatic. It's been a looooong seven episodes. I'm just ready for them to move on the the sexing. Everything else is insignificant. Waiting 167 hours to see them together again is going to kill me, though.

Also, I love that SA really thought about the impact prison would have on Oliver and advocated to make sure it wasn't glossed over. Even down to the wardrobe. I'm impressed and I can't wait to see it manifest on screen.

[apinknightmare]

Quote

To reflect what the character has gone through, “I wanted a change in him in the way that he interacts with people, with the public, and even so far as his wardrobe,” Amell described. “I went to [costume designer] Maya [Mani], and I’m like, ‘Oliver’s in his mid-30s, he’s a former politician. I want him to dress a little bit more like he used to dress for Sunday brunch at the Queen mansion.’ WASPy’s the wrong word, but it’s not totally the wrong word. … In the first episode that I’m out, we had him going to a gala, and I was in sort of the same suit that I would wear as the mayor. I didn’t like that. So we pushed that in a different direction.”

I better see that pea coat soon.

[Primal Slayer]

I wonder what Oliver and Felicity will be doing for money now.