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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

Door County Cherry

By Door County Cherry
in Arrow

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I haven’t been worried about Oliver and Felicity being together because of the way Roy and William spoke about them both “abandoning” William. Yeah, it’s possible that they break up and before this supposed “abandonment,” parent him like any other divorced couple, but for some reason I didn’t get that feeling? Maybe it’s also because I feel like this “abandonment” happened recently-ish to the FFs timeline? I don’t know.

Honestly, I don’t think there’s enough time left on the show for even a temporary split for Olicity or for Oliver and Felicity to break up and Oliver to get with anyone else. 

Maybe it’s just me, but Oliver and Felicity’s relationship is one of the few parts of the show I’m not worried about right now, in the present or future. 

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

Anyone who actually thinks she's dead deserves the crushing disappointment they'll feel when they find out she isn't. 

Chaser
Chaser

“Felicity my love, let’s make a baby. I want to expand our family.” ”Oh Oliver...” ”That way a piece of me will always be with you.” ..........”What the Fuck did you do?”

apinknightmare
apinknightmare

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

If there's a party in 716, then there will likely be an attack during the party per Arrow tradition.

Hmm... "masquerade style masks" could be one way to reveal that Felicity is alive... lifts mask to reveal face. Gasp!

Edited by tv echo
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way2interested

way2interested

I was more thinking it's their own team mission (rescue mission or otherwise) using the party as a cover. Adult William goes into the party, since he's dressed in a suit and a billionaire himself, while Roy, Maya, and Dinah try to break in for something (or someone, if Felicity's actually been held captive or something), since they are dressed in leather.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

^^^ I like this idea. For a change, our guys would be the ones attacking infiltrating the party. And Felicity is alive but being held prisoner by Kevin in the Glades.

Edited by tv echo
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Quote

DAVID RAMSEY DIRECTS HIS FIRST EPISODE OF ARROW — The past comes back to haunt both Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Laurel (Katie Cassidy). Curtis (Echo Kellum) is upset when he discovers that Diggle (David Ramsey) and Lyla (guest star Audrey Marie Anderson) have restarted The Ghost Initiative with Diaz (guest star Kirk Acevedo), China White (guest star Kelly Hu), Kane Wolfman (guest star Liam Hall) and Carrie Cutter (guest star Amy Gumenick). David Ramsey directed the episode written by Onalee Hunter Hughes & Tonya Kong (#711)

I just realized this likely just refers to Emiko and Robert's sleazy ways, but I'm still hoping for a bit more.  

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way2interested

way2interested

He got the jump on Brick (and murdered him, it seems) and Oliver, so I'm guessing they'll go with something like that

4 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

actress playing adult Zoe already left Vancouver so they probably wrapped up most of the future scenes. 

They've still got this week to film though for 716, don't they? Although I guess that would be mostly KM?

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
2 minutes ago, way2interested said:

actress playing adult Zoe already left Vancouver so they probably wrapped up most of the future scenes.

Do we think she's gone gone or like waiting at home to be called back?

Edited by BkWurm1
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Velocity23

Velocity23

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Do we think she's gone gone or like waiting at home to be called back?

She was on a plane yesterday. so i doubt she is returning for 7x16. And there probably gonna have an episode or 2 withouth the FF. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Per IMDb, guest cast for 711 - obviously, this is not complete since it didn't list Amy Gumenick or Kelly Hu...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7508632/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Quote

Kathryn Bouchard    ...        Erin (Co-Worker)
Luke Camilleri    ...              Sam Hackett
Peter Graham-Gaudreau    Brett Collins
Liam Hall    ...                      Kane Wolfman
Auralee Ivy    ...                   Agent Muncy
Evan Roderick    ...              Officer Nick Anastas
Scott Pocha    ...                 Bartender (uncredited)

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

DR basically confirms that tonight's episode (711) focuses on Oliver and on E2 Laurel (including more backstory), and that Dante is the real Big Bad this season...

Arrow's David Ramsey Previews Directing Debut, Earth-Two's Star City and a 'Fantastic' Return for OTA
By Matt Webb Mitovich / January 28 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/01/28/arrow-season-7-preview-david-ramsey-director-diggle-lyla-ota/

Quote

TVLINE | What was the biggest challenge that this script presented you, as a director?
I think the biggest perceived challenge going in was earning the respect of my coworkers. But, that ended up not being a challenge at all. I thought it would be, but it really wasn’t.

TVLINE | Oh, they all love you, man.
Yeah, and they kept it dialed in. In terms of the script, because this is a continuing arc that Oliver has through the season, the big question was: At what place does this land within that arc? How much do we want to show, how much do we want to reveal, and how much of our hand do we want to play in terms of how this emotional beat connects to the third episode from now?

TVLINE | I brought that up with [showrunner] Beth Schwartz earlier this month: When does this Diggle/Lyla/Diaz thing make better sense as part of the bigger picture?
That’s right. And that’s always the challenge, particularly in episodic [TV]. It varies when you’re dealing with a show that goes for 13 episodes versus one like our own that goes for 22, but that is the big question in prep, when you’re working with your producers and your writers. How much do we want to tell? It translates when you get on set and you’re having a conversation with Stephen [Amell] and you’re saying, “Maybe you want to pull back a bit here, maybe you want to change this line a bit…” And Stephen, by the way, there’s no one better at it.

I was thinking about this earlier. I’ve been working on this show for seven seasons, and it’s obviously a very successful show. But when I step back as a director and really worked the beats, really worked the story, really worked where this [episode] fits within the overall arc of the season, you then realize what an actor like Stephen, or an actor like Grant [Gustin on The Flash], or an actor like Melissa [Benoist on Supergirl] are really doing. They’re playing the long game, but only giving you pieces within each episode of an overall arc. Stephen in particular knows what’s going to happen at the end of the season….
*  *  *
TVLINE | Oh, I’ve said that to everybody, even to [CW president Mark] Pedowitz. Stephen can quote chapter and verse. “In the third actor of Season 2, Episode 5, Oliver did this, so….”
And what I’m telling you is that is unique in lead actors. Not all lead actors do that. [Chuckles] Not all lead actors have that. This is turning into a Praise Stephen Amell-fest, but there’s a reason why this is a hit show for seven seasons. He’s not telling you what’s going to happen, though he knows.
*  *  *
TVLINE | On the flip-side of these more nuanced and quieter scenes, how big do the scenes get in your episode? Any splashy pyrotechnics?
This can’t be compared to any of the big, huge crossover shows, and I would say that even compared to other “regular” episodes of Arrow, it’s someplace in the middle. There were no car explosions or flips, but we do have a lot of action with the new Ghost Initiative aka Suicide Squad. And Arrow obviously has a good amount of action, as well. But I would say that this is really a character-driven episode, for Oliver and Laurel. Katie [Cassidy] does a fantastic job. She and Stephen really carry the episode.

[TVLINE | I heard we are going to get some Earth-Two backstory on her character.
You are. You are. And you get some looks at Arrow‘s version of Earth-Two. We’ve already seen it on Flash, so you’ll see Arrow‘s version.
*  *  *
TVLINE | The fact that the Ghost Initiative exists at all has created a new rift Diggle and Lyla. Will they be able to work past this one?
They will. There will be conflict between them because of the Ghost Initiative. But the Ghost Initiative is, like most mechanisms of our show, serving a bigger story. This isn’t a long-reaching arc, with the Ghost Initiative. It has been “brought back from the dead” to serve a bigger story. And that bigger story will be Diaz’s connections to a bigger bad guy, Dante. We’ll find out more about him in this episode, and in the coming episodes.

TVLINE | Is Diggle going to get a chance to weigh in on Oliver’s fancy new SCPD gig?
Oh, he’ll be doing more than just weighing in. [Laughs] The whole police connection to Team Arrow is going to take a very interesting twist. So in answer to your question, yes, but there’s even more to that than you would think.

TVLINE | Lastly, are there any OTA moments to look forward to?
There are. You’ll see OTA again. It’s the crux of our show, right, but listen, there are 22 episodes, so we have to go away, we have to come back…. But yes, the return of OTA is absolutely happening, and it’s going to be fantastic. It won’t happen in my episode, but we will get back together.

TVLINE | I just want you out of those highly unflattering ARGUS coveralls, man.
Oh my god…. You do? I’ve been begging for it! It will happen.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

DR spills that Diggle is alive and well in the flashforwards and that he's doing some "huge thing"...

Arrow's David Ramsey Promises Diggle Is Alive and Well in the Future
By Lindsay MacDonald | Jan 28, 2019
https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-david-ramsey-diggle-alive-flash-forward/

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Given that you had to spend so much time behind the camera in this episode, will we be seeing less of Diggle this week?
Ramsey: Well, that's a strange thing, right? Because my first day directing — now when I say the first day, I mean the very first scene of my first day — was me as an actor, me as Diggle. This was the strangest multiple personality challenge I can possibly imagine, kind of acting to thinking about what the shot should be and what I want and was my performance correct. ... And obviously I had to trust my first AD at the time, Mark Bunting, to call out some of those things. That was the strangest moment I had on set, when I was kind of directing myself. But, in answer to your question, will you be getting less Diggle in this episode? No, you'll be seeing just as much Diggle as you ever have in this episode. They didn't give me a break. They didn't write less of me in this episode because I was directing, which is what I asked Beth [Schwartz]. I said, "Beth, listen. Don't give me a break. Just write this as if it's any other director." And she said, "Okay" and she did just that.
*  *  *
Are there any scenes you're particularly proud of or excited for the fans to see?
Ramsey: I think every scene between Katie [Cassidy] and Emily [Bett Rickards]. So, Laurel and Felicity's relationship is just, I think it's one of the highlights of this season. Also, Arrow's kind of blessed, if you will. I don't know what the right term would be. It has a tendency of bringing out these unexpected performances or relationships. They just work. No one expected the relationship between Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Diggle to jump off the page and it did. To jump off the screen and it did. No one expected Oliver and Felicity to jump off the screen and it did. The new team really working together and really popping, no one expected it and it did. Grant [Gustin] coming to Arrow and being so good he gets his own show. Caity Lotz, who died on Arrow just really being so wonderful that she goes into Legends of Tomorrow. These unexpected things that kind of began on Arrow that I don't think just happens. I think it's really a mark of really good character development and storytelling. ... I think that's where it starts. It starts with these really good characters, and I'm saying all this to say that this is just another unexpected thing. The relationship between Laurel and Felicity that really pops off the screen.
*  *  *
Any action sequences that you were kind of impressed you pulled off?
Ramsey: The Ghost Initiative. I think it really worked in this episode. I think the Ghost Initiative, aka Suicide Squad, really has a huge action sequence there that really works in this episode. I'm very proud of the episode, because both the character development, the acting, and I think the action really work. Both of those things are equal characters on our show. They're characters, the actors and the action. Both of those are equally significant characters on our show, and I think both of those work in this episode.

As far as the flash-forwards this season, we haven't really seen Diggle in the future yet, which makes me very nervous. Can you ease any of our fears about what Diggle's up to 20 years later?
Ramsey: Diggle is alive and well 20 years into the future, okay? And he's quite well in fact. I can't tell you what he's doing, because it is a huge thing. I can't tell you that exactly, but I can tell you that he's alive and that he's well, but, I think they're saving some of that for a later date. In fact, I know they are.

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Quote

Also, Arrow's kind of blessed, if you will. I don't know what the right term would be. It has a tendency of bringing out these unexpected performances or relationships. They just work.

The only reason there still is a show is because of accidental storylines, my guy. 95% of what these writers intend to do is hot garbage. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Regarding DR's statement that the Ghost Initiative and Diaz are all part of a "bigger story... a bigger bad guy, Dante", here's CBR's speculation (this December article also serves as a refresher course on what we know so far about Arrow's Dante, but we don't know if or how much they will copy the comics)...

Arrow's Hellish New Season 7 Threat, Explained
by Meagan Damore – on Dec 03, 2018 
https://www.cbr.com/arrow-season-7-inferno-ninth-circle/

Quote

Arrow Season 7 has an insidious new threat on the rise. In "Unmasked," the latest episode of Arrow, A.R.G.U.S. Director Lyla Michaels and her husband John Diggle uncovered some clues in the Dante painting they picked up on a recent mission. If those clues are any indication, Oliver and Team Arrow will soon face the Ninth Circle.

Introduced in 2016's Green Arrow: Rebirth #1 by Benjamin Percy and Otto Schmidt, the Ninth Circle is an international crime ring comprised of corrupt executives. However, some members are compelled to join through force or abduction and are subjected to a "rebirth" during which they are physically burned and then brainwashed. Appropriately, their base of operations is called the Inferno and the organization is led by Dante, all of which are references to the the epic poem The Inferno by Dante Alighieri.

"I had my contact look into the image that Curtis decrypted," Lyla told Diggle during the episode. "It's being used as some sort of highly advanced identification protocol within terrorist circles: Kobra, Basilisk, the Third World Liberation Army. They're all using the name Dante like it's a contact."

"When I cross-referenced the terrorist groups with the financials we obtained in Geneva, I found a common account," she explained. She then pulled up the last five transactions by the account, all of which were with a consulting firm called Rubrum, Silentium and Ursa. "That's Latin for 'Red, Silent and Bear' -- the Longbow Hunters," she pointed out.

When they realized Dante's connection to the Longbow Hunters, Lyla and Diggle turned to the only person who knew anything about the villainous group: Ricardo "The Dragon" Diaz. Their work with Diaz is sure to cause some tension with Oliver, who has suffered a lot thanks to Diaz's machinations.

Edited by tv echo
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Trisha

Trisha

This makes me really hopeful that the whole 'Oliver as SCPD' thing doesn't last as long as I feared it would (though there was that audition for a cop talking to someone who sounded like Oliver about honoring the uniform, so I'm guessing it'll last a few more episodes). But I'm hoping the "interesting twist" happens soon and it leads Oliver to break off from working with the police in an official capacity, Dig to break off from Argus, and them seguing back to an OTA-in-a-bunker scenario.

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

TVLINE | Is Diggle going to get a chance to weigh in on Oliver’s fancy new SCPD gig?
Oh, he’ll be doing more than just weighing in. [Laughs] The whole police connection to Team Arrow is going to take a very interesting twist. So in answer to your question, yes, but there’s even more to that than you would think.

TVLINE | Lastly, are there any OTA moments to look forward to?
There are. You’ll see OTA again. It’s the crux of our show, right, but listen, there are 22 episodes, so we have to go away, we have to come back…. But yes, the return of OTA is absolutely happening, and it’s going to be fantastic. It won’t happen in my episode, but we will get back together.

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way2interested

way2interested

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

This makes me really hopeful that the whole 'Oliver as SCPD' thing doesn't last as long as I feared it would (though there was that audition for a cop talking to someone who sounded like Oliver about honoring the uniform, so I'm guessing it'll last a few more episodes). But I'm hoping the "interesting twist" happens soon and it leads Oliver to break off from working with the police in an official capacity, Dig to break off from Argus, and them seguing back to an OTA-in-a-bunker scenario.

With "Training Day" the movie being about corrupt cops and the assistant director of Argus more than likely being revealed as shady, I'm guessing 715 is when that happens, which leaves 717 open for Dinah to be part of the BoP episode if 717 ends up being it and Diggle to work with Oliver and the team again.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

'Arrow' Actor David Ramsey Reveals Why He Was 'Worried' to Direct His Co-Stars & Teases 'Major' OTA Makeups!
By Leanne Aguilera‍ 10:14 AM PST, January 28, 2019
https://www.etonline.com/arrow-actor-david-ramsey-reveals-why-he-was-worried-to-direct-his-co-stars-teases-major-ota-makeups

Quote

Ramsey teased that tonight’s episode will be “continuing the story and theme” of Oliver as he dives deeper “uncovering his father’s past.”

“It was really about that piece of character development and showing the audience what toll this is taking on him emotionally,” he explained. “But, obviously, Arrow is what it is – it’s a brutal action show, so I think the Ghost Initiative aka the Suicide Squad scene of action that we have are just fantastic.”

Although Ramsey revealed that he felt “over-prepared” for his first time taking the director’s chair, there was one thing he was “definitely worried about” – directing his co-stars and friends, Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards.

“Stephen kind of jokingly said weeks before, ‘David, you can direct me – just don’t give me any notes,’ and of course he was joking, but you then kind of have that in the back of your head,” he said.

“I knew all the shots I wanted, I knew the crane work, I knew the CGI work and the pyro. I knew everything I’d need to know in order to create and direct an episode of Arrow – but what was unexpected was just how warm my cast accepted me as a director,” he gushed. “It was just a beautiful, beautiful experience.”
*  *  *
But many fans are wondering when we’re going to see a beautiful onscreen experience with OTA – Original Team Arrow – considering most of this season has been fraught with tension.

Ramsey admitted that he sees that fans are “dying” during this fractured friendship. “I see their tweets!” the actor exclaimed.

“But you will get to see OTA back in action,” he promised. “You will get to see your team back in action together and there will be major, major makeups, so it’s coming. It’s not coming in episode 711, but it is coming and it’s a big part of this season, so [fans] will get it. If they just hang on they will get it. It’s not a season of Arrow without a lot of twists of turns.”

Looking ahead to next week, Arrow will hit an impressive milestone with its 150th episode, “Emerald Archer,” and Ramsey teased that it’s unlike anything they’ve ever done before. “It’s a completely different, stylized episode. It’s a different episode of Arrow altogether – the style, the look, everything will be different.”

Edited by tv echo
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

it's the same shit every year and it's the same line from DR.  The thing is, they don't have to seperate OTA every season, they don't have to wait until the last 3-5 eps of the season to bring them back together and make them a focus.  You can tell a 22 or 23 episode season with OTA interspersed in every episode or every few episodes while still having different relationships for these characters.  However, this show is in all or nothing mode every season.  it's just dumb

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bijoux

bijoux

5 hours ago, way2interested said:

When did EK have time to grow that facial hair?

In all that time not filming Arrow.

49 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Also Diggle and Lyla with the suicide squad

https://www.ign.com/videos/2019/01/28/arrow-sneak-peek-meet-the-new-suicide-squad

I'll give them this, the interview process for this type of work is something they haven't done before. And while mostly boring, at least Cupid is having a blast. Oh my God, where does Curtis think he's working? Why would an ARGUS employee just barge into a room where the actual boss is conducting interview to essentially chat? He's not bringing Lyla any crucial information to justify this crap. Lyla is seriously being too lenient with all her talking subordinates. I know she doesn't want to be Waller, but there's got to be some medium between Waller and this.

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

6 hours ago, Chaser said:

I’m trying not to get my hopes up about Curtis leaving but Echo’s been sporting the beard look since hiatus. His pinned tweet is a heart emoji from 12/13.  Last day blues?

I’m also trying not to get my hopes up, but it’s really hard because all signs point to Curtis not being around much longer. The optimistic part of me is already envisioning a Curtis-free future and I want it so bad I can taste it. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

So is Dinah known as BC now? Or is the reporter going to keep that a secret.

I guess it's public knowledge somehow? The synopsis mentions the team talking about their pasts as vigilantes - although, I guess those haven't been right all that much lately.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Also, if you view the captions on The CW Press page...

AR712A_BTS_0301b.jpg

Quote

Arrow -- "Emerald Archer" -- Image Number: AR712A_BTS_0301b -- Pictured (L-R): Behind the scenes with David Ramsey, Emily Bett Rickards and Stephen Amell -- Photo: Shane Harvey/The CW -- © 2019 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

AR712A_BTS_0227b.jpg

Quote

Arrow -- "Emerald Archer" -- Image Number: AR712A_BTS_0227b -- Pictured (L-R): Behind the scenes with Echo Kellum and David Ramsey -- Photo: Shane Harvey/The CW -- © 2019 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

AR712A_0073b.jpg

Quote

Arrow -- "Emerald Archer" -- Image Number: AR712A_0073b -- Pictured (L-R): Jessica Heafey as Documentarian and Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen/Green Arrow -- Photo: Shane Harvey/The CW -- © 2019 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

Edited by tv echo
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