Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Guest]

So I'm kinda bitter about how they wrapped up Felicity's dad storyline in one episode. I enjoyed certain things about it - as I said in the episode thread, Felicity still had her agency and she was allowed to control everything that happened, from setting a trap and turning him over to the Police. All good, positive things.

 

But it feels dismissive, in a way. Like they just got it out of the way and it was annoying to them to have to even bother. There was no investment in it. I really wish it hadn't been the B plot in an episode where getting the cure for Thea was paramount and urgent (because it absolutely was, of course) because Felicity herself dismissed her problems as nothing, more than once. It just makes me sad for Felicity. She's always there supporting everyone else, giving pep talks and making sure everyone else is okay and not 'going off the rails.' But who is there for Felicity? She's been through SO MUCH in such a short period of time and it's like she's had to help herself every single time. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

I totally agree. I don't get why it had to be in this episode, and not in any other where something less urgent was happening.  I loved it anyway for the reasons you stated above, but I wish it weren't that rushed.

Edited February 11, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

You're completely right, yet I can't even get that mad about it since Thea was screwed over even worse. Every decision was made for her, she wasn't even told that Oliver cut off Malcolm's hand! And her bloodlust actually had potential in the first half of the season. I loved her going off the rails at Oliver and her blocking Darhk was a genuine shock. Now it's all just gone. They just messed up the landing on everything. Including Nyssa's story.

[wonderwall]

What I don't understand is that MG/WM talked about pushing the story back and back and said htat they didn't do it in S3 because they didn't have time... What time did they really need? These 4 scenes could've EASILY been added to S3. So I feel like I'm missing something here. 

 

Maybe the EPs felt like people were demanding it and felt like they were forced to rush it? Maybe it's just the beginning of the story? IDK I guess this is another case of "be careful what you wish for"...

[bijoux]

Maybe the EPs felt like people were demanding it and felt like they were forced to rush it? Maybe it's just the beginning of the story? IDK I guess this is another case of "be careful what you wish for"...

 

I certainly hope it's option B.

[tangerine95]

I think it was just an introduction and set up for season 5 but maybe they felt compeled to include it this season so they don't totally push it back to next season.I liked what we got though I think we could have used more scenes.They could have cut a few scenes of Malcolm and Nyssa literally repeating the same things for more focus on Felicity and her dad.But I really liked the actor and their dynamic which was one of the more important things for me,I didn't want to dislike the actor playing her dad.Also liked how the storyline was actually about Felicity.Especially compared to poor Thea who was in a coma the entire episode and just a prop for Malcolm once again.

[popgoesculture]

After last season, I disliked Oliver so much that it was hard to watch the show. He made bad decision after bad decision... and then the beginning of this season seemed to turn it around and make him someone more compelling. But this last ep was just a retread of the terribleness of Oliver season 3. I don't need to agree with every decision a protagonist makes (nor do I want to, bc hi, it's fiction, and half the fun is exploring the actions of someone so different), but when a character is so inconsistently written that his motivations don't make sense -- and you can see the writing straining to fit the actions of the plot, rather than allowing the character to drive it -- it's maddening. 

 

The writers seem to be forcing the show and its characters to fit the predicated outcome -- the baby mama storyline, the grave -- and it's showing their weaknesses in plotting to a terrible degree. And it makes me so mad because their strength in their characterizations is absolutely failing, or at the very least, falling to the wayside at the expense of this idiotic plot. 

 

And the thing is? the show isn't going to get better. It had it's chance in Season 2, when the first half really showed what Arrow could do. But each season they repeat the same mistakes over and over again. 

[TwistedandBored]

I am over Arrow writers dumbing down everyone mainly Oliver during the second half of each season in order to advance storylines just to make their finale huge deal. Oliver was dumb and kept secrets when it came to Deathstroke and RAG/LoA/Malcolm. He is now dumb and keeping secrets again when it comes to Malcolm and BM.

 

Enough already. I wish they would find another way to make their Big Bads have the upper hand without dumbing down their characters. 

[theacostov]

I'm bitter we didn't get a Mama and Papa Smoak scene together. Especially with Quentin arresting him. There's so much potential that these writers just love to squander.

[DrSpaceman10]

I've been looking forward to the introduction of Felicity's father since 2x13.  So, the fact that Felicity's father ended up only being in small parts of two episodes, is extremely disappointing. They made such a big deal about him, even dropping hints about him in multiple episodes. This story ended up being so small, they could have easily put it in Season Two or Three. I don't understand why they kept saying that Felicity's father was too big and had to be pushed off over and over again. 

[Password]

I agree, unless the dude is coming back I don't understand. If anything it seems like they're building up to the whole "people can't change" thing they were banging on about in the episode. In which case, yes Felicity's story was brilliant, but it was used to give us a glimpse of how she'll react to Oliver's nonsense.

It's a shame because I really enjoyed it and hoped Donna would be more involved with Noah.

[kismet]

What I don't understand is that MG/WM talked about pushing the story back and back and said htat they didn't do it in S3 because they didn't have time... What time did they really need? These 4 scenes could've EASILY been added to S3. So I feel like I'm missing something here. 

 

Maybe the EPs felt like people were demanding it and felt like they were forced to rush it? Maybe it's just the beginning of the story? IDK I guess this is another case of "be careful what you wish for"...

I feel like its the beginning of something more. Or maybe I'm just being optimistic. I have not been waiting for this story as long as some of you have been, so for me it was a good introduction. But I can imagine how frustrating it must have been for those of you that have been waiting patiently for so long to get PapaSmoak.

 

But I also know how people are wasted on this show, so I can understand the fear that the writers have just squandered the opportunity to do something awesome with her father. That being said, I will say that there is a little bit of hope in that they sent him to prison. If they were done with it, they would have just killed off PapaSmoak. I actually think the lack of Mama & PapaSmoak scenes is a good sign that there is more to come.

 

 

The writers seem to be forcing the show and its characters to fit the predicated outcome -- the baby mama storyline, the grave -- and it's showing their weaknesses in plotting to a terrible degree. And it makes me so mad because their strength in their characterizations is absolutely failing, or at the very least, falling to the wayside at the expense of this idiotic plot. 

 

And the thing is? the show isn't going to get better. It had it's chance in Season 2, when the first half really showed what Arrow could do. But each season they repeat the same mistakes over and over again. 

Truth Tea right there :)

[kismet]

The talk of Donna is the grave is annoying. Because if they cop out and kill her off, what that puts Felicity through is insane. Recap: they paralyzed her, made her father a villain and had her turn him in, have Oliver basically break her heart and killed her mother.

But she is the human element of the show... and so she can handle it, bonus points if they can do it without crying this year... If there is no crying, the writers have succeeded in fixing one of the major errors in s3 in their mind. It wasn't crappy plotting or characterization that made s3 so bad, it was the crying. Besides she needs a crucible as bad as OQ's to make her worthy of him.

 

I'm bitter about that, sorry if my sarcasm is not coming through. :(

[JenMD]

Am I missing posts?  I don't see the one from Chaser that you're quoting kismet...

[kismet]

Am I missing posts?  I don't see the one from Chaser that you're quoting kismet...

It's from the spoilers section, but since its about my bitterness & not a spoiler I decided to put it here.

[JenMD]

Oh, got it.  Can you make a notation when you pull a quote from a different thread?  That would make it much less confusing. Thanks!

[SmallScreenDiva]

Oh, got it.  Can you make a notation when you pull a quote from a different thread?  That would make it much less confusing. Thanks!

 

JenMD, you can click on that little arrow on the top right corner of a quote to get to the original posting, no matter which thread it first appeared :)

[JenMD]

Thanks, SmallScreenDiva, I had no idea what the little arrow was for!  But in this case, I don't read the Spoiler thread so clicking it would take me right into the thick of it. I thought hovering the mouse might work, but it doesn't get that specific in the link...

[tennisgurl]

This baby plot just keeps getting worse and worse. And now they have to drag Thea into the muck with Oliver, the lying liar who lies. This is an awful plot, and has become an increasingly contrived excuse to break up Oliver and Felicity, to create stupid "drama"  

 

Speaking of dragging, these flashbacks are just getting ridiculous. I have no idea what purpose they serve, they arent doing much to show how part boy Ollie become the deeply shell shocked guy we met in season 1, and the women who plays his island love interest is AWFUL. Like, her accent is just driving me up the wall, it seems to change continents every five minutes. In the words of Sterling Archer, "would you just pick an accent and stick with it"? It usually sounds sort of Spanish, then occasionally generically Eastern European, then back to Spanish, then just making weird noises. Ack! 

[Genki]

I really want LOT to only just get a 2nd season so MG can move to it full time (Sorry LOT fans). The blatant justification of badly written plot-driven storylines and seriously tiring and JUST. KEEPS. HAPPENING. EVERY. DAMN. SEASON!

 

Really making it hard to fully enjoy Arrow right now.

 

I'm not holding it against the character because the writing is so obviously heavy-handed, and the fact that MG doubled down on the manure he was spouting post 4.08 make me side-eye him way harder than Wendy.

[theacostov]

I really want LOT to only just get a 2nd season so MG can move to it full time (Sorry LOT fans). The blatant justification of badly written plot-driven storylines and seriously tiring and JUST. KEEPS. HAPPENING. EVERY. DAMN. SEASON!

Really making it hard to fully enjoy Arrow right now.

I'm not holding it against the character because the writing is so obviously heavy-handed, and the fact that MG doubled down on the manure he was spouting post 4.08 make me side-eye him way harder than Wendy.

Yes I agree about not holding it against the characters. I think the worst part of this is it's affecting the enjoyment and investment I have in the show. I can't really be mad at Thea or Oliver because it is dumb writing so then do I really care how it all plays out? I just want it to be over.

On a separate note I really need more movement from the main Hive story. It's moving at a glacial pace. I really want to be excited for this show again.

[tv echo]

The stupidity of the BMD just makes me wonder if the EPs have a secret agenda to kill the Olicity ship by making Oliver so unlikeable that fans will want Felicity to stay far away from him.  Then Oliver/GA and Laurel/BC can get together - and they can be two smug, self-satisfied, self-involved peas in a pod.

Edited February 19, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

ETA: Nevermind, this is the bitterness thread not spoiler spec...carry on

Edited February 19, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Midnight Lullaby]

Honestly I think if they ever wanted to go there again they wouldn't have used the words "friend/friendship" so much to make my head ache in 4x05. That was one message they really wanted the audience to catch. Also they made LL clap excited at Oliver's proposal when they could have hinted at her still having feelings for him like they always do in tv show. And they are giving to Oliver and Felicity many moments that remind me of GA/BC story so if they wanted to go there I think they would have saved those for them.

I really think the writers and MG in particular are complete morons and believe the lie is an awesome temporary obstacle for Oliver and Felicity.

[tangerine95]

I really think they're 100% done with Lauriver.Like I don't think its even a never say never kind of thing anymore.I fully believe if EBR ever wanted to leave and they had to end olicity,they would either leave him alone or bring in other LIs in hopes one works.

Imo they need a break up before they get married and need to stall the wedding until next season so we have the BM drama.Thats literally all I think is to it.And I think they're trying really hard not to make Oliver look too bad and look like he was forced.Is it working for everyone is a different story but I don't think they're trying to make people not want him and Felicity back together.Seems like the opposite to me really.

Laurel is barely a factor to him.She's as distanced from him as a person on the same team can possibly be.If there's one thing I'm not worried about its Laurel and Oliver getting back together.

[ah-maa-zing]

I really think the writers and MG in particular are complete morons and believe the lie is an awesome temporary obstacle for Oliver and Felicity.

 

On the one hand they are morons for the stupid obstacles; but on the other, I admire them for not even hinting at a possible L/O relationship or reunion. So many shows would do the "love triangle" thing (hell, this show did that in season 1). They've gone so far the opposite way it's like they want to pretend that relationship never even existed (for the most part). 

 

I'm so conflicted with these guys...

Edited February 19, 2016 by ah-maa-zing

[ComicFan777]

Yeah, I know you guys are right.  I think I've stumbled across way too many olicity hate posts on tumblr and Oliver's nonsensical behavior with the BM lies coming out of left field and it's getting to me.  When the writing doesn't follow how you build up the characters, it is hard to make sense of everything and see that things will work out in the end.

[NumberCruncher]

I'm not really seeing any hints of O/L either, so I'm not worried about it at the moment. I do think that the impending O/F breakup is the show's way of trying to keep them interesting which is so completely stupid when you have interesting characters to work with (News flash: their dynamic is already interesting). The TPTB are just showing us that they lack imagination and are therefore falling back on the same old tired tropes. I'm not really bitter about it anymore as much as amused by it--especially given that most of even the more die-hard of Olicity shippers were content with letting Oliver's and Felicity's interactions be woven into the larger plot rather than be the focus. Personally I was enjoying the brief light-hearted moments between them each episode that contrasted the doom and gloom going on. Too bad the writers think they need to infect it with their neverending Dark Knight obsession.

[hogwash]

After what happened with Sara, I can't imagine Laurel/Oliver getting back together. Not the cheating and S02 stuff but Sara dying and Laurel taking becoming a vigilante in her ~memory~. Laurel was finally getting the focus she "deserved" and taking her "rightful" place as the Black Canary. Diggle got removed from the main action, Oliver died so it could happen and Felicity was totally on board. The show was so freaking confident about that story line and based the entire season around it. Since it crashed and burned (there's no way Sara Lance was ever supposed to come back), I don't think Laurel's gonna get another chance or push like that. The love interest role was always the bigger issue. 

[kismet]

The stupidity of the BMD just makes me wonder if the EPs have a secret agenda to kill the Olicity ship by making Oliver so unlikeable that fans will want Felicity to stay far away from him.  Then Oliver/GA and Laurel/BC can get together - and they can be two smug, self-satisfied, self-involved peas in a pod.

You're reaching the danger zone :) .... I suggested something similar a few weeks ago & fell off into a really dark spiral. But I do feel like its a valid conspiracy theory. Then again, I also think LL is in the grave so it might  be hard for them to execute that plot :)

[Scribbles]

I am bitter that for a bit I questioned whether the limo scene with Felicity and Oliver after the funeral was a fake out because the whole focus on breaking them up has been put in place.  It went like this for me...Why would Felicity be angry about a love child?...She wouldn't.  She would even understand Oliver being in a tough spot given Samantha's ultimatum.  So why is she so angry and ringless in the car?..OMG what if it isn't real Felicity in the car but really ghost Felicity?....oh good grief, they wouldn't do that would they?....well yeah, maybe they woud lead everyone to believe she is safe and then it is her in grave and the limo scene flashforward was a fake out because it is her ghost haunting Oliver we were shown........then I went and rewatched the scene....then I said nope, not gonna let this haunt me for the next month or more ....

 

Thus, I am bitter that I feel/felt so little faith that this crew of writers would not dare toy with fans like that and it made me spend time to figure it out.

[kismet]

I am bitter that for a bit I questioned whether the limo scene with Felicity and Oliver after the funeral was a fake out because the whole focus on breaking them up has been put in place.  It went like this for me...Why would Felicity be angry about a love child?...She wouldn't.  She would even understand Oliver being in a tough spot given Samantha's ultimatum.  So why is she so angry and ringless in the car?..OMG what if it isn't real Felicity in the car but really ghost Felicity?....oh good grief, they wouldn't do that would they?....well yeah, maybe they woud lead everyone to believe she is safe and then it is her in grave and the limo scene flashforward was a fake out because it is her ghost haunting Oliver we were shown........then I went and rewatched the scene....then I said nope, not gonna let this haunt me for the next month or more ....

 

Thus, I am bitter that I feel/felt so little faith that this crew of writers would not dare toy with fans like that and it made me spend time to figure it out.

I would hate that... because I do enjoy FS on the show...

 

But if they were able to pull off a hallucination or ghost FS in the limo, I would have to give the writers props and I have not done that in months if not years.

[EmilyBettFan]

But that can't be since everyone is interacting with her. Plus she had her big almost "death" scene in 4x09.

[bijoux]

But that can't be since everyone is interacting with her. Plus she had her big almost "death" scene in 4x09.

She hasn't been shown interacting with anyone but Oliver after the funeral. But WM debunked that theory after the episode aired as far as I remember.

[looptab]

I've found a couple more things to be bitter about:

1- They had Thea saying that she noticed something was wrong with Oliver in CC. Except, the only one noticing something was wrong with him was Felicity. And he kept it all pretty much in check after Barry erased the timeline, so..but okay, I can handwave it as happening in Offscreenville.

 

2- How convenient that BM hasn't settled down with anyone. You wanted to create conflict about Oliver being a father? Why don't you have Samantha married or at least in a relationship with another man, and she doesn't want Oliver in the kid's life because he regards that man as his father? Oh, maybe because that would have made sense.

 

Idiots.

[Midnight Lullaby]

She hasn't been shown interacting with anyone but Oliver after the funeral. But WM debunked that theory after the episode aired as far as I remember.

Yeah..WM said they made it look like Felicity was the one to die in 4x09 already so it wouldn't be fair to the viewers or interesting to keep dangling her as a possibility so they put her in the limo to rule her out..

[kismet]

I'm bitter because it's becoming obvious to me that its primarily not the ideas that MG, WM & TPTB come up with that are the problem. It's the writing, the execution and the fact that they sacrifice their characters to make dumb (& mostly unnecessary) plot points.

It's easier to absorb dumb & tropey plot lines when the characterizations is still good. Every show gets a little wonky or stuck in ruts from time to time. So BMD & WC for melodramatic purposes are not surprising ideas. However, the fact that rather than explore the depths of their effects on the characters the show has simply resorted to using them as plot points with checklists to accomplish is the most disappointing element of these writers.

I would have loved to see FS & TA actually adjust to one of their own having a serious life altering injury. The few scenes we got that addressed it nailed it out of the park (because of EBR & SA) but then it was back to the plot checklist. Most evident by the fact that once again Curtis saved the day in a 48h period. FS wasn't even allowed to part of her own saving of herself or her company twice.

I would have loved to see OQ, O/F & TA adjust to OQs surprise fatherhood. But that is not the point of BMD, it's a plot event to cause tension and most likely a break-up. If it was about the characters I'm sure they could have milked some drama out of it. Only difference is rather than feeling hollow and stupid, it would have meant something. The pain and bitterness would not be directed at the poor/ dumb writing.

IDK, the longer MG runs the show the more I'm scared for the future of the show. Because he has good ideas, but then executes them so poorly and sabotages his own characters. It's sad, because I thought WM coming in would help balance him out. But so far for me every major storyline (Sara's ressurection, FS WC, BMD & election) had proven that plot still takes precedence over characterization. And her connect the dots plot philosophy is as basic and fog with dumb as MGs.

So I guess I'm bitter because I love the characters and its the characters that got me invested in the show. But now I'm stuck in a show where plot is the priority by the show runners. And the new show runner rather than smooth the plottiness or balance out the characters seems driven to give us all concussive syndrome with her anvil dropping. Perhaps that is their master plan by the end of this season we'll be knocked out so many times, we'll have short term memory problems and forget the poorly written middle.

Edited February 20, 2016 by kismet

[DeadZeus]

They really dropped the ball with the Malcolm vs Oliver fight scene, When Malcolm took the bow and arrow from one of his minions i was fully expecting Oliver to do the same and we would have a nice throwback to their season 1 fight using the bow.. But alas.... Also why is Oliver more badass as himself then as the Green Arrow lol.

[Chasity]

i'm bitter because I was actually looking forward to Oliver finding out about his kid. I wanted to see what Oliver would be like as a dad, but then 4x08 happened and it killed any interest I had in the story. I'm also bitter because Olicity is breaking up and I just find it to be so unnecessary. Not every couple has to break up once they get together. 

[Delphi]

I would hate that... because I do enjoy FS on the show...

But if they were able to pull off a hallucination or ghost FS in the limo, I would have to give the writers props and I have not done that in months if not years.

I actually thought about the possibility of her being a hallucination after the Shado appearance but I didn't want to put that thought out into the universe.

[HighHopes]

The only thing I am not bitter about at the moment is the upcoming Felicity/Oliver break-up. I have actually been waiting for it to happen since the season three finale, because IMO, they never really dealt with any of the issues/reasons that Oliver had in season three for why he couldn't be with Felicity. They also never really dealt with the whole "Oliver lets the team believe he is going to kill them" thing. 

 

I am just really curious about what Oliver thought would happen with this whole kid thing. Did he plan on keeping it a secret from Felicity forever? Was he going to tell her months/years from now when Samantha gave it the all clear? If he thought that Felicity was going to break up with him over the kid, I assume he planned on never telling her. Would he forever run off to Central City every other weekend to "help Barry"? and when Felicity suggested she tag along, what was his answer going to be? No really, what was his plan? 

[lemotomato]

I am just really curious about what Oliver thought would happen with this whole kid thing. Did he plan on keeping it a secret from Felicity forever? Was he going to tell her months/years from now when Samantha gave it the all clear? If he thought that Felicity was going to break up with him over the kid, I assume he planned on never telling her. Would he forever run off to Central City every other weekend to "help Barry"? and when Felicity suggested she tag along, what was his answer going to be? No really, what was his plan?

There was no plan, because the secret was always meant to do just one thing: break up Oliver and Felicity. I'm willing to bet that when they were sitting around the writers' room, plotting out the big points of the season, it went something like this:

 

MG: OK, everyone. We can't let Oliver and Felicity go through this season without breaking up because we don't like writing happy couples. How are we going to do it?

Writer 1: Maybe she gets hurt on a mission and he pushes her away?

MG: Nah, we did that already in 301.

Writer 2: Well, we're bringing Ray back. We can start another love triangle.

MG: No, we need to get people to LIKE Ray so they'll watch him in Legends of Tomorrow.

Writer 3: What if Oliver cheats on Felicity?

Everyone: ::throws writer 3 out the window::

Writer 1: What if Oliver keeps an important secret from Felicity? But what could that be? They've been working together since the beginning, and they've always trusted each other. Is there even anything about Oliver that Felicity doesn't know already?

MG: ::lightbulb moment::

Edited February 21, 2016 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

Personally I think the kid was going to be his wedding gift to her.

 

"Look, Felicity, my ten-year-old kid! You're a stepmom...Mazel tov!"

[Carrie Ann]

There was no plan, because the secret was always meant to do just one thing: break up Oliver and Felicity.

 

Exactly. On a smaller scale, the same is true for Oliver's calling a meeting with DD when Thea was on her deathbed. Nothing was ever going to come of it, so the writers didn't feel it necessary to follow their own thought through for character motivation purposes. I mean, when it comes to William, I guess I would believe that Oliver hoped that eventually Samantha would come around, and then he could tell Felicity without having to break his promise. But the second part--the part where he's finally allowed to tell her and they're already married--is where it falls apart. Even dumb ol' Oliver wouldn't believe that she would just be okay with him having kept this from her for however long--in fact, I'd say it's more in character for him to fear that she would break up with him. So it's illogical that he wouldn't consider that far ahead, and no matter what Thea said to him, it should not have resolved that issue for him.

 

Now that they've muddied the waters with the whole, "oh also, it's not safe for William because you're the Green Arrow!" piece, I guess maybe he thought he'd just put off telling William or publicly being a father to him until...uh, whenever he stops being GA?

 

But yeah, again, the writers just didn't bother having Oliver verbalize these thoughts because they didn't care to play out the string of a direction they would never have taken, because the logic of the character motivation breaks down as soon as you even start thinking about it, and that's inconvenient for this storyline.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[dtissagirl]

Questions I would love someone to ask Marc Guggenheim:

1. Oliver learned about William and agreed to keep him a secret from everyone. Then a week later, he asked Felicity to marry him. Why didn't we see Oliver connect the two things? Why didn't it even occur to Oliver to connect the two things? Why didn't Oliver reconsider asking Felicity to marry him when he realized he was gonna have to keep this huge secret from her?

2. When Felicity was in the hospital, and Oliver was actively avoiding visiting her, did Oliver go visit William? Did he feel guilty about doing that? Did the visits to William influence the fact that he was avoiding dealing with Felicity?

3. After Felicity was injured, did Samantha and Oliver talk about the potential dangers of being targeted simply because of  a connection to Oliver Queen? Did he offer to hire security?

4. When Malcolm told Oliver he knew about William, why was Oliver's reaction to do absolutely nothing about it?

5. When Thea quickly figured out who Samantha and William were, why didn't Oliver realize how easy it would be for anyone else to also figure it out? Why didn't he try to find out if there's been any opposition research being done on him, in connection to the election? Why didn't Oliver immediately get in contact with Samantha and tell her that people might be poking around his past?

 

6. No, really, why didn't Oliver hire a security detail for Samantha and William at any point in all of this?

 

But I doubt any of these questions can be answered.

[HighHopes]

6. No, really, why didn't Oliver hire a security detail for Samantha and William at any point in all of this?

Probably because he has no money, and Felicity funds everything. So if he was using money for a security detail in another city, Felicity may start asking questions? 

 

I hope we find out all of the lies Oliver told Felicity for why he was making so many trips to Central City- and I hope she asks if he went and visited the kid while she was in the hospital and having multiple surgeries. 

[AyChihuahua]

Probably because he has no money, and Felicity funds everything. So if he was using money for a security detail in another city, Felicity may start asking questions? 

 

I hope we find out all of the lies Oliver told Felicity for why he was making so many trips to Central City- and I hope she asks if he went and visited the kid while she was in the hospital and having multiple surgeries. 

Every time details like that are raised it gets worse. Like he's being really sneaky how much/for what of HER FUNDS he's using for this crap. Train ticket, dinner, snacks, hotel, breakfast...good ol' Felicity won't notice bc she doesn't monitor MY use of HER money. Ooh, security detail, well I'd love that, but good ol' Felicity would probably notice that. 

 

Sickening.

 

If they have him say he was visiting the dumb kid while she was in the hospital I'll be surprised. I think even Guggie knows that would be too far.

[lemotomato]

I'm so bitter that there were so many ways this storyline could have gone, but it really looks like they picked the dumbest, most illogical, least sympathetic direction.

I should've seen this coming, given how tone deaf they were about the Sara resurrection storyline.

[thegirlsleuth]

I'm so bitter that there were so many ways this storyline could have gone, but it really looks like they picked the dumbest, most illogical, least sympathetic direction.

I should've seen this coming, given how tone deaf they were about the Sara resurrection storyline.

The Sara storyline should have been an indication that they were not over their tendency towards character assassination via stupidity.  People came up with so many theories as to how/why Sara could be resurrected--Dahrk did it to manipulate Lance, Merlyn did it to manipulate Nyssa, Thea did it to make up for the death--but in the end it was the "Laurel won't listen to reason" storyline.  This should have been the Oliver wrestles with fatherhood storyline, and instead we are getting the storyline with Oliver's secrets and lies blow up in his face. Again. 

[Sasha]

Probably because he has no money, and Felicity funds everything. So if he was using money for a security detail in another city, Felicity may start asking questions?

If Felicity dumps Oliver then what will he do for money? She would probably still fund the campaign but how about his child support? I would no longer be bitter if Ollie had to go work at Big Belly Burger. Anyone remember when poor Buffy had to work at that fast food place because being hero doesn't pay the rent? I know he will probably win the election and get a paycheck but I so want him to suffer. This BMD has push me over the edge and I extremely dislike Oliver. He really doesn't deserve Felicity. I'm so bitter I wish Felicity and Curtis could have their own spin off and I could quit watching Arrow.