Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[NumberCruncher]

I really didn't find Sara patronizing to Felicity in that episode either.  She had always been nice to her before ToD.  Even when Sara could have been rude when Felicity offered to send the sample to the lab, she wasn't in the least.  I think Felicity likewise treated Sara kindly even knowing she was hooking up with Oliver.  My ire is solely focused on Oliver in that episode because he was rudely dismissive of Felicity more than once, which IMO, came completely from out of nowhere.

[apinknightmare]

I didn't find the "you'll always be my girl" scene patronizing because Felicity said it first:

Oliver: You all right? Diggle had mentioned that maybe you were feeling…a little left out.

Felicity: What? No.

Felicity: I was just…use to being your girl.

Felicity: I mean, not your girl-girl.

Felicity: Your girl.

Felicity: I know it sounds like the same word, but it means something different in my head.

(Oliver cradles Felicity’s head)

Felicity: Mmm.

Oliver: Hey.

Felicity: Hmm?

Oliver: You will always be my girl, Felicity.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with it either. Maybe I've spent too much time around people on painkillers (or maybe I'm a Oliver-level jerk), but I almost always patronize them when they say loopy things - it's part of the fun of being the sober one. What was he supposed to do, have a serious conversation with her about her place on the team while she's high?

Since she said it first and he repeated it back to her to placate her in that moment, eh...of all the OOC/questionable things that happened in that ep, I take no issue with that one.Yeah, the writers could've addressed Felicity's insecurity in another way/at another time when she wasn't on painkillers, but coulda, woulda, shoulda, I guess.

[Lisin]

Hey gang, a bunch of posts were just moved to the Spoiler with Speculation topic because this thread should be for bitterness about things that have already happened on the show. Thank you! 

 

Your Mods,

 

MostlyC, stacey, SilverStormm, and Lisin

[Starfish35]

If it had been just that one scene by itself? Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad, but in the context of the whole episode - that embarrassing "scars" conversation in the beginning where again Felicity came off as trying to fit in with the big kids, the jacket thing with Sara - all of that together capped by that particular scene did not work for me. At all.

[catrox14]

o me the Clock King episode was not OOC for Felicity or Oliver. Felicity was feeling like her ONE job was to be a great computer whiz and the Clock King was beating her and she was upset about it, whilst Sara, Diggle and Oliver are bonding over battle scar which led her to extrapolating being beaten at her own game into not being valuable to the team anymore, which was never really true it was just her insecurities that pushed her to prove she could beat him even without thinking it all the way through.

 

I had no problem with stoned Felicity being re-assured by Oliver that she had a place in the Lair as his "Girl Wednesday" in spite of her failures with the Clock King.  Also, I thought the "girl" moment was an extension of what IMO happened in State v Queen. I think there was some pinging of feelings about Felicity but I don't think Oliver could process all that yet, not to mention he was dealing with Sara and the Lance family bullshit, which of course was of his own making for getting involved with Sara again. So he was distracted and didn't notice that Felicity was really worried. And to me that was very in character for Oliver.

[looptab]

One thing I'm bitter about is that we never got to see Laurel "reaching out" to Diggle and Felicity. I honestly thought a scene like that would have been among the deleted scenes, but now I doubt it was ever shot. And besides, alright, she knew Oliver was the Arrow, she knew Sara was the woman in black, but how did she know for sure that Dig and Felicity were involved? Suddenly she has all this deductive power LOL :) Anyway I think a scene like that could have been golden.

[Sakura12]

And besides, alright, she knew Oliver was the Arrow, she knew Sara was the woman in black, but how did she know for sure that Dig and Felicity were involved? Suddenly she has all this deductive power LOL :) Anyway I think a scene like that could have been golden.

 

Maybe Slade sent her a letter?

 

Dear Laurel,

 

Felicity Smoak and John Diggle are...helping the Arrow.

 

Love,

Slade

 

P.S. The Arrow's Lair is in the basement of Verdant.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Sakura12

[looptab]

It's possible.. lol

 Seriously, I can't keep from laughing even just imagining her approaching Dig. :)

[HighHopes]

I had various issues with Time of Death, most of which have been covered already. But one thing that really bugged me is connected to the previous episode as well. In Heir to the Demon, Oliver was able to notice that something was bothering Felicity, twice- once in the lair, and then once at the speech. Then at the campaign he tells her that she's not going to lose him (after asking her what was bothering her). This is also the last we see of Felicity in this episode which was also the last episode before a break. The episode also ends with the Oliver and Sara hook-up. 

 

Then a few weeks later we're back, and again, something is noticeably bothering Felicity. And not only does Oliver not pick up on it, he has to be told by Diggle that something was bothering her. So we go from Oliver noticing something was off with Felicity, and telling her she's not going to lose him, to him hooking up with Sara, and then completely failing to notice that something was clearly bothering Felicity. 

 

That coupled with the interview SA gave TVLine where he talked about the hook-up and how Oliver wasn't actually jealous in 2x08-2x10 (when in a previous interview he said something about how "you don't always know how you feel about your friend until somebody else likes them" and as well as an interview on of the EPs gave that said that Oliver was jealous) really turned me off from the show for a while. I really don't have a desire to rewatch any episode between 2x11-2x20.

 

Oh, and speaking of 2x20. Tell me how while worrying about Slade, Oliver could find the time to rent a hotel room to hook up with his girlfriend, but couldn't be bothered to show up to work at all. The latter of which ended up costing him his family's company as well as the job he pretty much forced his friend to take. 

Edited September 22, 2014 by HighHopes

[Guest]

I had various issues with Time of Death, most of which have been covered already. But one thing that really bugged me in connected to the previous episode as well. In Heir to the Demon, Oliver was able to notice that something was bothering Felicity, twice- once in the lair, and then one at the speech. Then at the campaign he tells her that she's not going to lose him (after asking her what was bothering her). This is also the last we see of Felicity in this episode which was also the last episode before a break. The episode also ends with the Oliver and Sara hook-up. 

 

Then a few weeks later we're back, and again, something is noticeably bothering Felicity. And not only does Oliver not pick up on it, he has to be told by Diggle that something was bothering her. So we go from Oliver noticing something was off with Felicity, and telling her she's not going to lose him, to him hooking up with Sara, and then completely failing to notice that something was clearly bothering Felicity. 

 

That coupled with the interview SA gave TVLine where he talked about the hook-up and how Oliver wasn't actually jealous in 2x07-2x08 (when in a previous interview he said something about how "you don't always know how you feel about your friend until somebody else likes them" and as well as an interview on of the EPs gave that said that Oliver was jealous) really turned me off from the show for a while. I really don't have a desire to rewatch any episode between 2x11-2x20.

 

Oh, and speaking of 2x20. Tell me how while worrying about Slade, Oliver could find the time to rent a hotel room to hook up with his girlfriend, but couldn't be bothered to show up to work at all. The later of which ended up costing him his family's company as well as the job he pretty much forced his friend to take. 

 

Wow. If SA can go back on Oliver being jealous of Barry (dude clearly was, come on), then he can probably go back on his statement of there being only one woman in his life. I really hope not but I can suddenly see why some people don't exactly trust what's been said. I'm finding out so much from this forum. I had no idea.

 

I agree though. 2x14 was really OOC for Oliver, especially in light of his actions with Felicity the previous episode. That's why it was all plot driven rather than character driven which made it awkward. They needed Oliver to be clueless otherwise the whole episode would have fallen apart. If he had noticed Felicity's discomfort/problem then there wouldn't have been an issue in the first place and no episode lol. Same with Sara wanting Oliver to go to the family dinner. I refuse to believe someone who knows she's hurt her sister with her past actions would willingly want to do that to her again by inviting Oliver to dinner. But Oliver needed to be there so he could have that fight with Laurel in the hallway. None of it made sense but they had to change the characters to get there and that's bad.

[apinknightmare]

 

That coupled with the interview SA gave TVLine where he talked about the hook-up and how Oliver wasn't actually jealous in 2x08-2x10 (when in a previous interview he said something about how "you don't always know how you feel about your friend until somebody else likes them" and as well as an interview on of the EPs gave that said that Oliver was jealous) really turned me off from the show for a while.

 

Which is ridiculous, because the fact that he was jealous was actually written into the show since, you know, Diggle called him out on it. It must be difficult trying to rationalize his character's motivations when the writers keep throwing plot twists to the wall to see what sticks.

[SmallScreenDiva]

HighHopes, it's like you read my mind.

 

I will forever resent those last three minutes of Heir to the Demon. Not because of the actual hookup (which is horrible enough because of the people involved and their history) but because I never got the conversation I thought Oliver and Felicity needed to have after she told him about Moira's secret. Felicity made a big leap of faith revealing that to Oliver and the show never addressed it after that. Instead, as usual, we got EPs telling us how Felicity and Oliver's relationship was going to get stronger. Well, no, I didn't see Oliver and Felicity's relationship get stronger. The very next episode (about 4 weeks later) I saw Felicity get treated like a wayward child and patronized. Oliver and Felicity's relationship pretty much disappeared and only re-emerged in Deathstroke.

[statsgirl]

Then a few weeks later we're back, and again, something is noticeably bothering Felicity. And not only does Oliver not pick up on it, he has to be told by Diggle that something was bothering her. So we go from Oliver noticing something was off with Felicity, and telling her she's not going to lose him, to him hooking up with Sara, and then completely failing to notice that something was clearly bothering Felicity. 

Still the self-absorbed douche, even after all these years.  (Continuity and this show really don't have a close connection.)

 

He didn't pay for the hotel room, though.  Sara asked how he could afford it now that he didn't have any money and he replied that the manager owed him a favour.

I will forever resent those last three minutes of Heir to the Demon. Not because of the actual hookup (which is horrible enough because of the people involved and their history) but because I never got the conversation I thought Oliver and Felicity needed to have after she told him about Moira's secret. Felicity made a big leap of faith revealing that to Oliver and the show never addressed it after that. Instead, as usual, we got EPs telling us how Felicity and Oliver's relationship was going to get stronger. Well, no, I didn't see Oliver and Felicity's relationship get stronger. The very next episode (about 4 weeks later) I saw Felicity get treated like a wayward child and patronized. Oliver and Felicity's relationship pretty much disappeared and only re-emerged in Deathstroke.

Reappeared in Deathstroke, and then got put on the back burner again till Sreets of Fire.

 

But we did get to see the full five episode arcs of Laurel's addiction and recovery so there was time well spent.

Edited September 19, 2014 by statsgirl

[Sakura12]

I think that just shows us the EP's can tell the actors one thing then change it around later because they feel like it.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Sakura12

[Chaser]

Back and forth quotes like that just tell me they were figuring out stuff as they went. 

 

I wonder if he retracted his statement after Oliver/Sara hooked up because the hook up didn't fall in line with what had been going on. He was trying to make sense of it all. Even in hind sight it doesn't make sense. If you marathon all the episodes together, its even more disjointed.

 

EPs and SA sounded on the same page at Comic Con but only time will tell.

[HighHopes]

HighHopes, it's like you read my mind.

 

I will forever resent those last three minutes of Heir to the Demon. Not because of the actual hookup (which is horrible enough because of the people involved and their history) but because I never got the conversation I thought Oliver and Felicity needed to have after she told him about Moira's secret. Felicity made a big leap of faith revealing that to Oliver and the show never addressed it after that. Instead, as usual, we got EPs telling us how Felicity and Oliver's relationship was going to get stronger. Well, no, I didn't see Oliver and Felicity's relationship get stronger. The very next episode (about 4 weeks later) I saw Felicity get treated like a wayward child and patronized. Oliver and Felicity's relationship pretty much disappeared and only re-emerged in Deathstroke.

 

I am still bitter over the fact that there wasn't a follow up to that conversation. And then Moira died, and there was still nothing (aside from Felicity's talk with Diggle at the funeral). There were a lot of storylines happening in the second half of the season, and not a lot of follow up. 

 

He didn't pay for the hotel room, though.  Sara asked how he could afford it now that he didn't have any money and he replied that the manager owed him a favour.

 

 

If or how he paid doesn't really matter. It's that apparently finding quiet and alone time with Sara was more important to him than his family's company and his friend's job. 

[apinknightmare]

EPs and SA sounded on the same page at Comic Con but only time will tell.

 

Since SA said the reasoning behind the "one woman" thing for Oliver was because of some things they were trying to sell in the premiere, I really freaking hope they stay on the same page. If not this show is even more hopeless than I thought in the storytelling department.

[Chaser]

S3 is make or break for me so they better fix the problems of S2.

[Morrigan2575]

Which is ridiculous, because the fact that he was jealous was actually written into the show since, you know, Diggle called him out on it. It must be difficult trying to rationalize his character's motivations when the writers keep throwing plot twists to the wall to see what sticks.

He never said Oliver wasn't jealous in 210. He was specifically asked about the Barry Allen episodes and he answered about the Barry Allen episodes. The Barry Allen episodes are 208-209. Also Sa never walked back from that statement he said it quite early in that he didn't play Oliver is jealous. I know because I made a huge post on TWOP after 213/214 when fandom went apeshit over his comments. The interview in in February just seems to be the one that sticks out in people's minds for some reason and is constantly repeated as an example of the EPs/SA walking back from previous statements.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Morrigan2575, you wouldn't happen to have a copy of that TWoP post, would you? I'd love to read it. I'm a little hazy on the SA's comments during that time period. Pretty much blocked everything out.

[statsgirl]

I am still bitter over the fact that there wasn't a follow up to that conversation. And then Moira died, and there was still nothing (aside from Felicity's talk with Diggle at the funeral). There were a lot of storylines happening in the second half of the season, and not a lot of follow up. 

 

If or how he paid doesn't really matter. It's that apparently finding quiet and alone time with Sara was more important to him than his family's company and his friend's job. 

I agree, it was bad plotting that there was no follow-up to Felicity willing to sacrifice her relationship with Oliver in order to do what is right, and worse that Oliver was such a douche to her in the next episode.  (Really, only enough blood for one head to function.)

 

In terms of storytelling though, I can see why they had the scene of Oliver and Sara in the hotel room. First, it reinforced the idea that Oliver didn't spend enough energy or interest on his job as CEO of QC.  Once Slade arrived. it was like QC didn't exist any more for him, and now that it's gone, his head still isn't there. The other reason was to set up Sara breaking up with him at the end of the episode, which was necessary to set up the finale.  

[Morrigan2575]

Morrigan2575, you wouldn't happen to have a copy of that TWoP post, would you? I'd love to read it. I'm a little hazy on the SA's comments during that time period. Pretty much blocked everything out.

Trying to find it but TWOP took the forums down and The Way Back Machine is being a bitch.

[apinknightmare]

He never said Oliver wasn't jealous in 210. He was specifically asked about the Barry Allen episodes and he answered about the Barry Allen episodes. The Barry Allen episodes are 208-209. Also Sa never walked back from that statement he said it quite early in that he didn't play Oliver is jealous. I know because I made a huge post on TWOP after 213/214 when fandom went apeshit over his comments. The interview in in February just seems to be the one that sticks out in people's minds for some reason and is constantly repeated as an example of the EPs/SA walking back from previous statements.

 

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I actually wasn't even watching the show back then (and I don't think I've read any interviews from that time), but I do see that quote about Oliver not being jealous a lot - I didn't know he was speaking about specific episodes.

[willpwr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PENa5witA-4

 

I'd rather see his interviews to have a better idea with SA sometimes because he tends to joke around and I'm never sure if he's being sarcastic or serious unless I see it. In regards to jealous/not jealous, I keep in mind that he's promoting specific storylines at a time so even if he does think Oliver is jealous and he know the direction things are going in, he might be coy with his answers so as not to give anything away.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, that's from early January before Blast Radius aired but I think there was something earlier where he said the same thing. I'm trying to find that one as well but the point stands SA (to my knowledge) never claimed that Oliver was jealous only to walk back from it.

He is promoting the show/storyline but he was pretty consistent on Baricity, IMO. Oliver wasn't jealous of Barry, he wants Felicity to be happy, I never played Oliver as jealous.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

From Laurel thread:

I actually stopped watching when Oliver decided, after steadfastly defending his mother against all criticisms including accusations of mass murder, to suddenly hate her for her very understandable handling of his sister's parentage.

I didn't stop watching, but I don't blame you, because this was one of the more rage-inducing moments of the season. I don't know if they meant to have Oliver come across as a complete and utter hypocrite, or if this was a severe case of Plot Induced Stupidity. But I suppose it doesn't matter. Just the fact that Oliver could stand there and so completely condemn his mother, after promising earlier in the season that there was nothing that she could say that would drive them away, after all the secrets he's keeping himself, and while acknowledging even in this moment that they are both going to continue to lie to Thea? It's unbelievable.

[HighHopes]

So I'm currently getting my sister into Arrow, and this weekend we got through 2x02-2x15. And man, was the difference between the first half (and 2x10) and then 2x11-2x15 noticeable. My sister actually got up during Time of Death to make breakfast (her condo is open concept, so you could still hear the tv from the kitchen but she couldn't see it), and she came back into the room during the Diggle and Felicity conversation after Oliver and Sara left to go to Laurel's. and then once again when Felicity called Oliver from the bank. So if a person who is marathoning the show couldn't be bothered to stay in the same room while the episode was on, I wonder what the casual viewer did? 

 

I already made a post about my issues with Heir to the Demon and Time of Death, but really watching season two all at once the Sara and Oliver hook up was even more out of nowhere and made even less sense to me. 

 

For Sara's welcome home party, how come Felicity wasn't invited? Felicity and Digg get let off of the guest list, but somehow Sin is on it? Thankfully for my sanity we won't be able to continue watching until either Wednesday or Friday...Because wow do these episodes make me angry. 

Edited September 22, 2014 by HighHopes

[DrSpaceman10]

Episodes 2x11-2x20 are the reason I'm not doing a season two re-watch before season three starts. Instead I'm watching the Felicity/Team Arrow scenes that are on youtube.

[Chaser]

Was anyone else a little annoyed that Oliver had Felicity make dinner reservations for him, Dig, and Carly? I wanted to punch him, first for even asking (this isn't a standard CEO & EA relationship, why is he treating her like a secretary) and second for not inviting her (if it was Oliver/girlfriend & Dig/Carly I would understand but it wasn't a double date and they are all friends). 

[statsgirl]

 For Sara's welcome home party, how come Felicity wasn't invited? Felicity and Digg get let off of the guest list, but somehow Sin is on it? Thankfully for my sanity we won't be able to continue watching until either Wednesday or Friday...Because wow do these episodes make me angry. 

I thought Sin came with Thea and Roy, and Thea was there because she knew Sara from before as Laurel's sister and because it was at her house.

 

Thanks for the reality check on the episodes.  

 

Was anyone else a little annoyed that Oliver had Felicity make dinner reservations for him, Dig, and Carly? I wanted to punch him, first for even asking (this isn't a standard CEO & EA relationship, why is he treating her like a secretary) and second for not inviting her (if it was Oliver/girlfriend & Dig/Carly I would understand but it wasn't a double date and they are all friends). 

I hadn't notice but now that  you  mention it, yeah, that's just all kinds of wrong.  Why take Diggle and Carly out for dinner but not Felicity?  They've taken her to Big Belly Burger so she knows Carly. And asking Felicity to make the reservations when she's told him how much she hates to be his EA .... wow, Oliver could be a jerk.

[Chaser]

Especially considering that Felicity and Diggle maintained their friendship while Oliver was on the island. Felicity probably knew Carly. 

 

Another thing, in Russia Oliver tells Felicity to go straight to the hotel and that he and Diggle need to grab a drink. They weren't really grabbing a drink; it was something to do with the mission if I remember correctly. But Felicity is just standing there like "I want a drink too." Why didn't Oliver just say they had prep work instead of implying they were leaving her out? Am I remembering this wrong or was Oliver really that much of a dick?

Edited September 22, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[statsgirl]

No, you're remembering right, Oliver really was that much of a dick.  Even more, because Felicity had just said that she didn't want to share a cab with Isabel but Oliver made her do it anyway.

 

I'd really like to see Felicity call Oliver out on these on-going doucheries.  She does on the really big ones but a lot of times he treats her like his employee and not a partner.  It's also why it's hard to get upset over how he awful he was to Laurel by taking Sara on the boat when he still does these things to Felicity who has never been anything but supportive of him.

[calliope1975]

Yeah, Oliver started out S2 dickish and got worse as the season continued. It did seem like a lot of the memorable moments were with Felicity, too. That's why I barely consider him a hero at this point. He's a hero-in-training. Not that a hero can't be a dick. (Hi, Batman!)

[Chaser]

I think the reason they were so memorable is because they were so random at first. And then when he hooked up with Sara again, it was like his state of being. 

 

The thing is I like Oliver but I don't love Oliver - not in the way I love Felicity and Diggle. I need to see evolution from Oliver in S3 before I get to that point. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I think the reason they were so memorable is because they were so random at first. And then when he hooked up with Sara again, it was like his state of being. 

 

The thing is I like Oliver but I don't love Oliver - not in the way I love Felicity and Diggle. I need to see evolution from Oliver in S3 before I get to that point. 

 

I completely agree with this whole comment! Oliver needs to improve as a person before I can see him as a hero, I'm hoping that the writers think so too.

[Morrigan2575]

Moving to happy memories thread

Edited October 7, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[MostlyC]

The bitterness thread was created to vent about frustrations and things you believe to be stupid.

 

Any retrospectives should focus on frustration and bitterness as it pertain to Arrow- no nostalgically fond strolls down memory lane in this thread.

 

Since Season 3 premieres in about 48 hours, and I suspect there will be no shortage of bitterness because, really, it's impossible for a tv show please everyone?

 

In other words, DO NOT FAIL THIS THREAD!!!*

 

 

 

 

 

*If you don't know where this comes from by now, then you have failed this show.  :)

[Moya the Leviathan]

oh Sara. Could you possibly be a ghost haunting Felicity, making some cheap joke about Ollie's commitment issues, or ragging on Laurel's fighting techniques? I could put Angostura out of business tonight.

[writersblock51]

After watching "The Calm," I'm nothing but bitter about this show now. Dammit.

[TanyaKay]

 

I have a bit of a problem with editing in this episode. This glorious scene where Felicity held Oliver’s face in her hands and told him that she will make him a corporate maverick or something, I wanted to see Oliver’s face being all heart eyes here and I did not get to see that.

I felt cheated.

[writersblock51]

From the 'E01 The Calm' thread:

 

 

It's clear what they're going to do with Laurel now. Her journey is going to mirror Oliver's in the sense that she'll start out seeking revenge to avenge Sara, then when she finally gets that, she will become BC to honor her memory. It's so clear. And though I want to be excited for Laurel, I can't help but feel resentful towards her because she's the reason Sara had to die, and that just makes me hate her. Like really really hate her. And I've never truly hated a character before.

 

There are multiple problems with this scenario - and I agree, I think this is what's going to happen on the show for Laurel.

 

1 - we've seen this before, on this very show - it's Oliver's S1 journey.  What the hell would the show think anyone wants to go through that again?

 

2 - By putting this in the current day, where we can't skip over big chunks of it, Laurel's story will be eating up screen time that I'd far rather have spent on other aspectsof the show

 

3 - The show is about Arrow - and like the complaints in S2 that there was a growing amount of attention (and screen time) spent on Sara then (with reminders that hey, the show is "Arrow" not "Black Canary") - so the less we see of Canary 2.0, the better

 

I'm also concerned that show either catered to a small fanbase (I'm not using the P word, as i do not like it) of 'comic canon' folks so that Laurel fulfilled their destiny, even though it runs in complete contrast to a much higher percentage of fans who feel very differently  OR the show is catering to Katie Cassidy.

 

Either way, it stinks.

[dtissagirl]

True story: after the kiss I was already mentally planning posts about OH, OLIVER, YOU'RE SUCH AN IDIOT BUT I LOVE YOU ANYWAY, and GO FELICITY FOR BEING SO CORAGEOUS, except with actual analysis and thinking it through and spec about the rest of the season re: F/O... but I'm so disheartened at the prospect of having to watch Laurel emulate Sara for the rest of the season that I can't even make myself rewatch the episode. UGH. WAY TO HARSH MY MELLOW, SHOW. I guess hate-watching mode is ON now.

 

Also, it's like watching the chain of neverending fridging! Shado dies to prop up Sara who dies to prop up Laurel. What super great writing for lady characters, and for a female audience right there, Arrow. /sarcasm

Edited October 9, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Morrigan2575]

I think what I'm most bitter about is the interviews that have come out after the episode.  The callus way in which MG joked about how great CL was at playing a dead body...WTF? 

 

How they love Caity and love Sara and there's so much story left to tell...well if there was that much story left to tell WTF did you kill her off?  What I'm supposed to care about how she met/fell in love with Nyssa all the while knowing that she's dead?!

[writersblock51]

Any Sara flashbacks we'll see will have little to do with her character development, I think, and everything to do with explaining Ra's. I'm mixed on that - I don't expect or want this to ever be a '& Black Canary!' show BUT... I think creative writing could have blended getting to know this verison of Ra's with yet more depth to Sara's motivation to become BC.  We know she learned all sorts of nifty skills but we've never gotten much in the way of details for her motivation. Those details have been speculated about at length. Much like how this show deals with silly things like that, it's been all talk and little to no show.

 

I don't see the point of showing much of Sara anymore.  I resent that she's only being used as a plot device to introduce us to Ra's.  It would have been FAR more interesting to see that in the flashbacks and THEN have the 2 of them face each other now.  But nope.

 

Given how badly Laurel is written, I have no confidence whatsoever that her motivation to become BC will be anything other than pure revenge.  Which is a tired trope and a waste of my time.

Edited October 9, 2014 by writersblock51

[Sakura12]

My number 1 reason to stop watching shows is killing of my favorite characters stupidly. They couldn't even give a hero's death, they actually had her hit a dumpster on her way down. 

 

I fear for any other character that gets in Laurel's way towards her "journey". 

[tv echo]

Never underestimate the hubris and ego of Hollywood producers.

[writersblock51]

I don't know where to put this latest thought so I'll just post it here, because this thread seems to suit my mood right now.

 

One thing that occured to me during the final Sara/Laurel scene was that it was a complete Obvious/Not Obvious way to guess what was going to happen based on how the actresses handled the scene.

 

Obvious - Laurel/KC was doing the big smile thing again, a la The Jacket Scene.  I truly think she can't help herself.  How professional /sarcasm

 

Not-Obvious - Sara/CL seemed reflective but I thought that was about her final comments being about not letting Quentin know she was back and why. But I had no indication that Sara would be dead a minute later

 

Hence the deeper aspect of my KC/Laurel problem - I see too much of the actress in the role instead of seeing the role itself.

[dtissagirl]

Remember last week when we were legit talking about how putting Laurel in a fun light meet-cute Taming of the Shrew storyline with

Ted Grant

would be the best way to make us care for the character? HAHAHAHA WE FOOLS.

[Sakura12]

I'm guessing KC was saying "Sara's going to die, I'm going to be Black Canary!" over and over in her mind during filming. Because it sure looked like that to me with her gleeful smiling the whole episode.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Sakura12

[JJ928]

From what I've seen this is going to bite them in the ass. Some of the comments I've read from people that didn't mind Laurel becoming BC & Sara remaining Canary are now dead set against Laurel. I understand that this is their way of moving Laurel from justice seeking lawyer, to potential vigilante. I don't think they really knew how much of a follow Sara gained as BC. All they've done is make a character who was already divisive, exponentially more hated. I never really cared about Laurel either way, she was never a factor for me... but I really resent her right now.