Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[GirlvsTV]

I'm bitter that even after a decent episode that saw characters actually behaving somewhat like themselves again, I still can't seem to muster up much interest in watching.

I was happy to see Oliver showing some solid decision making skills again and in Oliver/Felicity repairing their relationship a bit. However, I just can't seem to see past the total logic fail that is the Oliver/Malcolm plot. I just . . . If he has to be kept around, why not bring Malcolm back to the Foundry and lock him up while he recovers? Why make THEA, of all people, his caretaker? It honestly seems kind of cruel on Oliver's part. His inability to respect Thea's wishes regarding Malcolm has me hoping she'll have a chance to stab Oliver and throw him off a mountain at some point. Which probably isn't the reaction the writers are hoping for.

Also, knowing we have a bunch more Ray coming up isn't very encouraging either since I find him the very definition of boring.

ETA: Some clarification on who I want Thea to stab and throw off a mountain.

Edited March 22, 2015 by GirlvsTV

[statsgirl]

Stab Oliver or Malcolm?  I could go for either at this point.  The way Oliver is treating Thea these episodes and completely disregarding her feelings makes me ragey.

 

I found this link to Liam Neeson playing Ra's al Ghul, and now I'm even more bitter at the waste of time Nable's version is.

[GirlvsTV]

Stab Oliver or Malcolm?  I could go for either at this point. 

I meant Oliver, but I'd also be fine if she kicked either or both of them off a mountain : )

[tennisgurl]

I`m bitter that I am so excited about an episode where the first thing I said after it was "that actually didn't piss me off too much"! 

 

My standards have gotten LOW! 

[KirkB]

I found this link to Liam Neeson playing Ra's al Ghul, and now I'm even more bitter at the waste of time Nable's version is.

 

 

 

You're absolutely right, statsgirl. For all the (accurate) cries of whitewashing both interpretations of Ra's got, Neeson's was so much better IMO it's no even funny. He brought a twisted sort of humor and genuine menace. Nable just bores me. I thought he was toned down in Riddick because of Vin Diesel but it looks like that is his general level of onscreen presence.

Edited March 23, 2015 by KirkB

[Menrva]

You're absolutely right, statsgirl. For all the (accurate) cries of whitewashing both interpretations of Ra's got, Neeson's was so much better IMO it's no even funny. He brought a twisted sort of humor and genuine menace. Nable just bores me. I thought he was toned down in Riddick because of Vin Diesel but it looks like that is his general level of onscreen presence.

Liam Neeson is scary, even when he's being funny (Bad Cop in The Lego Movie!). There's quiet menace (Neeson) and I just got up from a nap (Nable). No comparison. So many missed opportunities and poor casting decisions. 

[Menrva]

You're absolutely right, statsgirl. For all the (accurate) cries of whitewashing both interpretations of Ra's got, Neeson's was so much better IMO it's no even funny. He brought a twisted sort of humor and genuine menace. Nable just bores me. I thought he was toned down in Riddick because of Vin Diesel but it looks like that is his general level of onscreen presence.

Liam Neeson is scary, even when he's being funny (Bad Cop in The Lego Movie!). There's quiet menace (Neeson) and I just got up from a nap (Nable). No comparison. So many missed opportunities and poor casting decisions. 

[statsgirl]

Something I also got from Neeson is the sense of the League of Shadows being an ancient organization with power and purpose, while Arrow's Ra's is all "here, you're running this. They'll do anything you want them to do."  MG's assertion that by the end of The Offer, we'll see that it's a real decision for Oliver only works if you haven't seen the movie they ripped it off from.

[Sakura12]

From what I've seen of the LOA on Arrow (except for Sara and Nyssa) seem more like a bunch of Laurel's running around over highly trained and skilled shadow ninjas. 

[strikera0]

I think the whole League of Assassins has been made to look incompetent in this show. Even characters like Sara and Nyssa were made to look less competent than they normally should be. I mean, how often did we see Sara stumble in fight scenes just so that Oliver could save her at the last second? And Nyssa, who has lived and breathed LOA training since she was a kid, has lost every fight against Oliver - and some of them rather easily, too.

[calliope1975]

I'm choosing to believe that this the LOA B league, while the real Ra's al Ghul hangs out somewhere and shakes his head at these knuckleheads. 

[Sakura12]

Having started watching The 100, Clarke the 18 year old character from that show is more ruthless than Arrow's version of Ra's. When she says she's says she's going to kill someone to get her enemy to listen to her, she actually does.  

[kismet]

The only bone I will throw at Nable is that perhaps he is supposed to be tone down version of Ras since he is supposed to be be retiring or ceasing to be Ras. He does sorta have this non-nonchalant this will all be over soon & I can rest vibe going on. I did enjoy his dinner conversation w/ OQ though, the way he presented each word sorta hinted that he has more up his sleeve than just a simple offer. He does have a quiet menace every now & then. It is definitely not as menacing or innately scary as Liam Neeson, but I do see a little glimmer of menace every so often.

[kdm07]

Having started watching The 100, Clarke the 18 year old character from that show is more ruthless than Arrow's version of Ra's. When she says she's says she's going to kill someone to get her enemy to listen to her, she actually does.  

OT: Welcome to The 100 Sakura12! It features a lot of kickass women who don't get lobotomies or fridged for the men in the show (so far).

 

As for Arrow's Ra's? Give me Liam Neeson any day of the week. This Ra's is weak and not at all menacing. One of the many things that make this season of Arrow completely uncompelling.

Edited March 23, 2015 by kdm07

[Sakura12]

OT: Welcome to The 100 Sakura12! It features a lot of kickass women who don't get lobotomies or fridged for the men in the show (so far).

 

The 100 is a strangely compelling show. I gave some of my thoughts on it in the Small Talk thread. But I have to say with being dark and gritty compared to the 100, Arrow looks like a Saturday morning cartoon. 

[CabotCove]

You can keep things clear and a little obvious without going full OUAT with their whole HEROES and VILLAINS thing, where the writers act like those are the only two words in their collective vocabulary.

 

 

LOL.

[Sakura12]

 

Yet another reason to be upset that we downgraded the Black Canary. 

[Starfish35]

What is that from?

[Sakura12]

What is that from?

 

Death Valley, it had one season on MTV. It was filmed like a fake documentary about a police force set up to take care the vampires, werewolves and zombies that were running around southern California. Caity played a completely different character than Sara. Kirsten was the bubbly happy rookie that could kick ass. She did almost all of her own stunts on that show. How many actors can you film a front facing kick like that. Most of the time it would be shot from the side or from the back. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Sakura12

[MostlyC]

It's almost impossible to be bitter about my favorite crush Liam Neeson, so if you're going to talk about him and his acting, take it to Mind your Surroundings.

 

 

 

grumbles sotto voce: Bitter about Liam....sheesh!

[blixie]

I'm bitter that these writers showed us Roy getting fried like bacon, into seeming unconsciousness, and they had it's two dick measuring "heroes" leave him there, and that same said writers seemingly expect the audience to overlook such sloppy as fuck writing/editing because the show is so great and their story so entertaining. 

 

I'm bitter that every single choice they chose to make about and for Ray as character besides hiring charming and hot Brandon Routh has been WRONG and WRONGER. I'm sad that Ray is basically the Laurel of Season 3, and Laurel is the Roy of Season 2, and Roy is the Thea of Season one, and Thea is herself only minus her agency which Felicity can now relate to, because two dudes were busy deciding which of them deserved her more. 

 

Season three of Arrow is such a bunch of yuck.

Edited March 26, 2015 by blixie

[wonderwall]

I don't understand. What's the difference between Oliver saying Felicity deserves better than Ray and Felicity saying Oliver deserves better than Isabel? 

[blixie]

Did I say there was difference, I hated that shit too.

[wonderwall]

Did I say there was difference, I hated that shit too.

 

ah ok, my apologies

Edited March 26, 2015 by wonderwall

[Sasha]

The only way this season can be saved for me is if the finale is a solid 42 minutes of Oliver and Felicity sex. I think the entire relationship is some kind of cruel bait and switch. These asshole writers will wait until the last five minutes of the very last episode of the series and flash forward to....nope not the two of them alone on the island. Instead Oliver will be watching from the shadows as Felicity is having dinner with her children and faceless husband. Just wait it will be the last fuck you to the Olicity fans.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Sasha

[Chaser]

I don't want Oliver and Felicity to get together this season. I want them to be in a good place but not together. Felicity needs her time.

 

The only way they season is going to be forgiven for me is if Oliver and Felicity get together at the start of S4 and stay together till the end of the series. And they get married. And we meet Felicity's father and he is there for the main plot and its season long and its not so he can get his own spin-off.

[wonderwall]

I'm really understanding now why EBR wants Felicity to have 'me time'. Boy does she really need it. I don't mind if by the end of this season we're left with O/F on good terms. They know that they love each other, they're just not ready to take that final step because they need to sort out their issues (Oliver's will be solved by the end of this season for sure. But Felicity has more and more issues building up). 

 

Then in season 4 Oliver or Felicity can go 'fuck this' I want to be with you and then maybe by season 4 mid season finale, they can get together. 

 

But yeah. I don't want them to be together this season. Not at all. Ray ruined everything. And I really hate him for that.

[Chaser]

Ray did ruin everything. I had my issues with him but now I'm so firmly Anti-Ray. It's not even about Olicity for me. It's about Felicity and Oliver. Her 'story' is a joke. It's Ray's. Everything is about Ray and turning him into a hero. So we have Felicity forgiving things she shouldn't forgive. Supporting things she shouldn't support. It's t-minus 5 until the season finale and its all about Ray. Oliver has to take a seat now, Ray needs to be a hero. 

 

I'm actually offended by the writers and angry on behalf of SA and EBR and the characters they play.

[Password]

A big reason why I'm not watching certain episodes is because of what the writers tend to do with the characters for plot. There was a whole string of episodes in season 2 that I couldn't stand Oliver and I didn't want it to happen this season with others (namely Felicity).

Every Ray-Felicity interaction bar one or two makes me shake my head. I can't with that man. When people continuously say they're healthy I just don't understand it at all. The only healthy thing about Ray is his dose of arrogance.

I am now actually uncomfortable with Felicity flirting with Oliver. Great.

[wonderwall]

It's funny how Felicity doesn't mind calling Oliver out on whatever, but when it comes to Ray she turns a blind eye? Yeah. No. You know there's something wrong if a character is inconsistent within the same episode. 

ON the one hand I really want Felicity to flirt with Oliver because I really hate Ray. On the other hand, I don't like her flirting with Oliver because it's not fair to Oliver (then again, maybe a healthy dose of flirting will make him open his eyes lmao). 

 

Keto Shimizu. I blame her for all of this crap tbqh. 

[Password]

It's funny how Felicity doesn't mind calling Oliver out on whatever, but when it comes to Ray she turns a blind eye? Yeah. No. You know there's something wrong if a character is inconsistent within the same episode.

I'm not surprised. I've been wanting her to call him out several times before but she hasn't because reasons. Pure health.

[wonderwall]

I'm not surprised. I've been wanting her to call him out several times before but she hasn't because reasons. Pure health.

That's why I don't think the writers are killing Felicity's character. Once Ray leaves or when she breaks up with him, she'll be back to her normal self. I blame Ray for all of this tbqh. Not Felicity.

[calliope1975]

That's why I don't think the writers are killing Felicity's character. Once Ray leaves or when she breaks up with him, she'll be back to her normal self. I blame Ray for all of this tbqh. Not Felicity.

 

But will she? That's my concern and fear. What low-rent hero will they want to launch next year? What contrivance will be created when they inevitably bring the kid into the picture? I have lost all faith in this writing team. I hope it goes back to normal because, for some inexplicable reason, I still care. 

 

Be better, Show!

[wonderwall]

I think the show has gotten plenty of heat this season regarding their bloated cast. Ray Palmer isn't cared for by the audience at all which shows that their tactic of using felicity didn't help. And to be honest even they know they can't do the same old song and dance between Oliver and Felicity in two consecutive seasons.

I think the writers know this. More importantly the network knows this. The world doesn't need anymore superhero shows and I don't think we're going to get another one in 2016.

 

Also. They showed within the episode that they know how to write felicity. She didn't take olivers crap. It's just that when it came to Ray, because for some reason their relationship is important, all logic went out the window.

It's safe to say as long as felicity isn't used for a character next season she'll be fine.

Edited March 26, 2015 by wonderwall

[Sasha]

Then in season 4 Oliver or Felicity can go 'fuck this' I want to be with you and then maybe by season 4 mid season finale, they can get together.

I don't think I can hold on that long. Last night was such a disappointment. I thought for sure after Ray went after Oliver and zapped Roy, Felicity would be through with him. I was cheering Laurel on during her Ray scene and booing Fecility as she apologized. How the hell did that happen?

At this point I wish Oliver and Felicity had just stayed friends and we never got any hint of a romance. I am hanging onto the show by a thread and can't take anymore stupidity from Felicity. Call it plot point or out of character but I still had to watch it. But not again. I went ahead and erased all the episodes from this season off the dvr.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Sasha

[Password]

But will she? That's my concern and fear. What low-rent hero will they want to launch next year? What contrivance will be created when they inevitably bring the kid into the picture?

This is where I'm at. When will it stop? They made Oliver mucho stupid last season (much like this season) and they're not really giving Felicity a POV when it comes to Palmer...or her life really. If the writers think it OK to make Oliver a donut for plot, and Felicity has fallen into this category this season, they will no doubt abuse it again.

Ever since MG said they make Oliver stupid for plot I've not been able to take anything seriously in the show.

[Menrva]

It seems like the Omega virus from the flashbacks has already been unleashed on Starling City.
Symptoms include, but are not limited to:

 

• Delusions of grandeur
• Inability to tell the truth
• Inserting head up one's ass
• Blinding stupidity
• Acting like a pod person
• Smugness
• Instant fighting skills/suddenly a superhero
• Insanity

 

If any of these symptoms lasts more than one season, stop watching Arrow immediately and see a doctor. Or watch videos of kittens.

 

I'll be in the corner, rocking back and forth, muttering to myself.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Menrva

[lexicon]

I'm bitter that these writers showed us Roy getting fried like bacon, into seeming unconsciousness, and they had it's two dick measuring "heroes" leave him there, and that same said writers seemingly expect the audience to overlook such sloppy as fuck writing/editing because the show is so great and their story so entertaining. 

 

I'm bitter that every single choice they chose to make about and for Ray as character besides hiring charming and hot Brandon Routh has been WRONG and WRONGER. I'm sad that Ray is basically the Laurel of Season 3, and Laurel is the Roy of Season 2, and Roy is the Thea of Season one, and Thea is herself only minus her agency which Felicity can now relate to, because two dudes were busy deciding which of them deserved her more. 

 

Season three of Arrow is such a bunch of yuck.

 

Yup to everything except I don't think Oliver thinks he deserves her. Nope, he just thinks he's allowed to say who does. Which is ...wow, a whole nother level of delusion. I mean I love the man but he has got some serious control issues.

 

I wish Felicity had called him on that instead of the almost petulance she descended into when she complained that he never wanted her and Ray to work out. Say what now? Honey, I love you too but Oliver was nothing but supportive about your choice to move on with Ray (to your face at least) before he decided Ray wasn't good enough. 

 

I need Felicity to stop crying, to pull on her big girl pants and to call Ray on his shit. She apologised? to him? for what? Ray Palmer was such a hypocritical douchebag in this episode, complaining about Felicity's secrets while never telling her that the super secret suit that they were working on together was working, taking justice into his own hands to catch the Arrow because he didn't agree with his vigilantism (look in a mirror sometime) and finally, shooting at Roy and Oliver after he lead them into a trap because he thought they needed to be brought to justice for unlawful killing.

 

Did Felicity know that Ray went to the police to out Oliver, shot Roy and put her and her team in jeopardy? If so, her willingness to put all of that aside and forgive Ray so easily is so OOC that I'm speechless. Her feelings for Oliver aside, Team Arrow is her family and her love and loyalty to them has never been in doubt. Except in this episode where her need to be Ray's partner apparently outweighed everything. 

[Shanna]

I'm bitter that we had to take a half a years hiatus from the show I actually like to wreck some characters and relationships in hopes of making people like ray enough for a spin of. I'm too butter to watch the show and the episode thread just makes that seem like the right call.

[Duke Silver]

WTF is up w/ Ray palmer's constantly bloodshot eyes???  I am already mehhh about the guy, but seeing those always-red eyes just makes me want him off my screen a.s.a.p.  Is he supposed to be a closet addict/alcoholic or something?  Have I missed somehting fundamental?

[Chaser]

I'm bitter that we had to take a half a years hiatus from the show I actually like to wreck some characters and relationships in hopes of making people like ray enough for a spin of. I'm too butter to watch the show and the episode thread just makes that seem like the right call.

I know you mean Bitter and not Butter, but from now on I'm using butter. LOL

Edited March 26, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[tennisgurl]

Can Ray just run off to his stupid spin-off, and leave my show alone? When he leaves, will everything suddenly go back to normal? The characters will become themselves, the story will become interesting? Or will they forever be marked by the lameness of this season?

 

And can I just say, Ray has the very smuggest face in the world? When he was fighting with Roy and Oliver? Good lord. At least when Oliver was running around killing people, he didn't look so damn smug. 

 

And why does no one care about the fact that Roy was apparently electrocuted? These two "heroes" bitching about who the most heroic is, while Roy just lays there, unconscious? What? 

[Sakura12]

I'm going with you get red eyes from drinking butter, because that cannot be good for you. 

[lexicon]

Has Arrow jumped the shark?

 

When John Campea quit the show I thought he was being a bit melodramatic but in my saddest, bitterest moments I wonder if he was just ahead of the curve. With a large part of the season gone, most of which can only be explained by "because...comics", "because....plot" OR "because ...reasons" you kind of have to wonder you know? 

[Chaser]

John Campea was a big fan of Ray before he left, I wonder if his opinion has changed at all.

[tennisgurl]

On reflection, the worst thing about last nights episode? I actually enjoyed last weeks episode, and I had just a sliver of hope that this season was getting back on track. Now? That hope has died. 

[lemotomato]

Has Arrow jumped the shark?

When John Campea quit the show I thought he was being a bit melodramatic but in my saddest, bitterest moments I wonder if he was just ahead of the curve. With a large part of the season gone, most of which can only be explained by "because...comics", "because....plot" OR "because ...reasons" you kind of have to wonder you know?

I'm amazed at how bad the show has gotten since the mid season finale. During the hiatus I enjoyed reading everyone's theories on what would happen and it turned out that even the most ridiculous fan ideas were better than what ended up onscreen. Campea was lucky to jump ship when he did.

And yes, I think the show has jumped the shark. The problem is that MG has indicated in an interview that he thinks that is a good, brave thing to do as a show runner, so I have little hope for things to go back to making sense again as long as he's at the helm.

[moviewhore]

I'm bitter that Ollie was fucking propping that douchebag Ray all thru the episode.  That pissed me off, especially since Ray was gonna throw him under the bus.  Jesus Christ, it's the Ray Palmer show now.  And I raged when Felicity went "you'd like that" when Ollie was like "ray's going to be killed."  That was such a low, shrewish comment from her.  I really hated her for saying that shit because Ollie's not like that, goddamnit.  Felicity's got her head so far up Ray's ass she can see his colon.  For a hot second I was like "Ollie, let her go, let all of it go and take the new job." 

 

I fucking hated Ray going after Ollie with that lameass Iron Man wannabe suit, throwing fire at him like a bratty toddler.  And then to complete that suckfest of shit Ollie goes and actually helps that dipshit for Felicity's sake.  And I am bitter because now I think she might not be worth all that effort. 

 

This is no longer Ollie's story or about Arrow, it's about plot contrivance and pushing Ray and Laurel into their journeys that have much easier won, it's about Ollie being shit on for his heroism and losing fucking everything, with Felicity throwing shade at him and thinking that Ollie would like Ray dead cause she's dating the prick.  So that's what Felicity really thinks of him deep down with that comment.  Well, Felicity, stick with Ray then because he's on your level apparently.  I'm so bitter with even thinking that.

 

I'm bitter that I want Ollie to leave and start a new life anywhere than Starling City.  There is nothing for him there.  What bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by moviewhore

[Pyramid]

I'm bitter because the only way I can see them fixing this is for team arrow to spin off on to their own show. It could be on the CW and they could call it Arrow. Oh, wait...

[Danny Franks]

Has Arrow jumped the shark?

 

When John Campea quit the show I thought he was being a bit melodramatic but in my saddest, bitterest moments I wonder if he was just ahead of the curve. With a large part of the season gone, most of which can only be explained by "because...comics", "because....plot" OR "because ...reasons" you kind of have to wonder you know? 

 

Ah, I was quitting this show before it was cool. The summer chatter about how awesome Ray was going to be just felt like the writing on the wall, and then the fridging of Sara was a disgusting piece of business. I don't think the show was ever going to recover, especially not by pushing Laurel and Ray like they seem to have been doing all year.

 

Either the producers don't know what made Arrow fun to watch, or they don't care. Either way, it doesn't seem like many people watching are having much fun at all. I don't think they'll ever pull it back, because in season 4 they'll just find yet more avenues to go down that will ruin the characters even more than they already have.

 

As for that spin-off? No way in hell will it be a success. Routh and that Captain Cold guy? I'm sorry, but Caity Lotz cannot work miracles and make them interesting. Add Robbie Amell to it, and you've got a real triumvirate of tedium.