OUAT vs. Other Fairy Tales: Compare & Contrast

[Shanna Marie]

Wow, with that Beauty and the Beast cast, shut up and take my money. Is it too early to start standing in line?

[OnceUponAJen]

Wow, with that Beauty and the Beast cast, shut up and take my money. Is it too early to start standing in line?

Honestly! Give me Kevin Kline in ANYTHING.

[ParadoxLost]

Isn't his name Adam?

 

I've always thought it was Vincent; but that was because I fell in love with the TV show that was airing a couple years before the Disney movie.

[Camera One]

Apparently, he has no name aside from Beast or Prince.  

 

This guy tries to explain how the Adam rumor came about or how fans came to call him that.  Who knew you can talk 6 minutes about it.

http://modernmouseradio.com/2013/02/23/beasts-real-name-isnt-adam/

Edited April 23, 2015 by Camera One

[Souris]

I've always thought it was Vincent; but that was because I fell in love with the TV show that was airing a couple years before the Disney movie.

 

Ah, man, I Ioved that show. Until it jumped the shark.

[ParadoxLost]

Ah, man, I Ioved that show. Until it jumped the shark.

 

Surprising that they even tried to survive Linda Hamilton leaving, but yeah I loved that show too.  Apparently CW version is still alive an kicking and has been renewed for season 4.  I had no idea.

[Souris]

Surprising that they even tried to survive Linda Hamilton leaving, but yeah I loved that show too.  Apparently CW version is still alive an kicking and has been renewed for season 4.  I had no idea.

 

 

It was definitely a "Why bother?" thing trying to keep going after LH left. I mean, I liked all the other characters, but the Vincent/Catherine relationship was the entire point of the show.

[Serena]

The CW reboot isn't really good, and I haven't kept up with it, but the two main actors have SMOKING chemistry. Never saw the original.

[buildmeupbuttercup]

Even though I stopped watching about five seasons ago, I just wanted to send my condolences to any remaining Grey's Anatomy fans out there. My friend and I loved that show back in college (never missed an episode) and she still managed to keep watching all these years even though I threw in the towel after the hospital shootout episode. She texted me last night, outraged, telling me what happened and I have never been happier to have quit a show when I did.

 

Sometimes when I get frustrated with Once, I console myself by saying "well at least its not written by Shona Rimes". She actually manages to come off as more tone deaf in post-episode interviews than A&E and that's saying something!

[FurryFury]

Yeah I've never watched the show but I've read the news certainly didn't expect them to do something like that. I guess even network TV shows are trying to avoid being too safe and predictable these days. Although season 11 or 10 or whatever sure seems like a weird time to do it (but then, I'm of the opinion that no show should continue for that long).

[Camera One]

 I was watching an episode of the animated TV Show Hercules which featured a guest appearance with Jafar and Hades working together.  Even when a show isn't that great, mash-ups are always fun.  There's so much potential for that type of stuff on "Once".  If the show isn't going to give us any depth, at least give us some fun scenarios.  The Author/Egg Baby/Zelena stuff is just depressing.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Even when a show isn't that great, mash-ups are always fun.  There's so much potential for that type of stuff on "Once".

The Queens of Darkness would have been a wonderful opportunity for this, and I think they utilized this in spare amounts for the first episodes. It was fun watching them be bumbling henchmen or ordering at Mr. Cluck's or just snarking about the action. Now two of the Queens are gone and it's about Emma going dark. I really enjoyed the Queens at first, but unfortunately they were a misdirect. 4B is so serious and depressing now that I can't see anyone really enjoying it. The fandom is pretty unified on how disappointing it is.

 

Once has the potential to have some really crazy mash-ups. They should take advantage of it.

Edited April 25, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[SilverShadow]

 I was watching an episode of the animated TV Show Hercules which featured a guest appearance with Jafar and Hades working together.  Even when a show isn't that great, mash-ups are always fun.  There's so much potential for that type of stuff on "Once".  If the show isn't going to give us any depth, at least give us some fun scenarios.  The Author/Egg Baby/Zelena stuff is just depressing.

 

I enjoy the animated Hercucles so much. Even the lesser episode are fun and the cast/characters are amazing. Cassandra the cynical psychic pseudo-goth is the best.

[Camera One]

That was the first episode I've watched.  I'll try to catch more.  

 

I was listening to the Hunchback of Notre Dame soundtrack earlier today, and I never realized how they basically turned the story into a male Rapunzel mixed with Dumbo.  They could have a mysterious clocktower repair person in Storybrooke.

[MedievalGirl]

Has anyone seen the commercials for Disney Descendants? I feel like I've been watching that show for a few years already. My daughter yells at the screen every time. LOL The funniest thing is that Keegan Connor Tracy is playing Belle which makes me wonder about all things meta in the Disneyverse. 

Edited April 27, 2015 by MedievalGirl

[KingOfHearts]

 

Has anyone seen the commercials for Disney Descendants?

This looks so incredibly cheap. Cruella's design is horrible!

[MedievalGirl]

Malificient's too and there should be plenty of her costumes laying around already. Give some awesome cosplayers a budget and you'd have something better. 

[Shanna Marie]

The tor.com site is doing a read/watch series on the Disney fairy tale movies, where they read and review the source material, then in a later post read and review the Disney version and do some analysis comparing the movie to the source. They've already done Snow White, and last week they did the read portion of Pinocchio. That post had a lot of description that sounds remarkably similar to what we say about this show.

 

For instance:

At that point, the book decides it has not had enough plot yet, let alone characters, let alone violence

 

Or what could almost be a critique of the latest episode, if you change the names, or the whole "why can't Regina get a happy ending" arc:

Pinocchio spends almost the entire book blaming bad luck everyone but himself for all of the terrible things that happen to him. ... But Pinocchio, when the ghost of a murdered cricket tells you that the road is dangerous, and that just maybe you ought to go back home instead of going down a road filled with lurking assassins, and you head down the road anyway and die a horrific death, I don’t think “We boys are very unlucky,” with the implication that your constant run of terrible decisions had nothing whatsoever to do with this, is the correct response.

[Dianthus]

The tor.com site is doing a read/watch series on the Disney fairy tale movies, where they read and review the source material, then in a later post read and review the Disney version and do some analysis comparing the movie to the source. They've already done Snow White, and last week they did the read portion of Pinocchio. That post had a lot of description that sounds remarkably similar to what we say about this show.

 

For instance:

 

Or what could almost be a critique of the latest episode, if you change the names, or the whole "why can't Regina get a happy ending" arc:

I've been following those posts as well. Mari Ness was doing recaps of OUaT for a time, and recapping Gallivant over the winter hiatus.

[Shanna Marie]

Mari Ness was doing recaps of OUaT for a time, and recapping Gallivant over the winter hiatus.

The OUaT recaps stopped abruptly during this arc. I know she got in at least one while Cruella was around, then it stopped. I wonder if she just got fed up with the show or if they didn't get enough hits for the site to continue or if she just moved on to other things. I don't recall seeing any "I won't be recapping this anymore" announcement. She was generally pretty sane about it (meaning, she mostly agreed with me. :-)).

[Dianthus]

The OUaT recaps stopped abruptly during this arc. I know she got in at least one while Cruella was around, then it stopped. I wonder if she just got fed up with the show or if they didn't get enough hits for the site to continue or if she just moved on to other things. I don't recall seeing any "I won't be recapping this anymore" announcement. She was generally pretty sane about it (meaning, she mostly agreed with me. :-)).

I asked her about that myself in the comments section of a post. She said Tor was moving away from TV recaps (not that I'd noticed, but that's her story). She also said she might have some kind of round-up post in future.

[Writing Wrongs]

I've been re-watching these awesomely snarky video reviews of Charmed http://blip.tv/movienights#!page=14 and noticed some similarities.

 

*The Hollow absorbs magic like The Sorcerer's Hat.

*When Cole kills The Source he takes on his powers like Rumple did by killing The Dark One with the dagger.

*Wyatt prophecied to be the Ultimate Power, but has the potential for good or evil. Like Emma being The Savior.

*Regina equals Phoebe on the selfish, annoying as fuck scale.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Writing Wrongs

[FurryFury]

Agents of SHIELD has once again proved to be the antidote to this show's apology of villains. There was a specific moment in the season finale which made me recall Once - with Bobbi (a heroic character, even if a pragmatic one) talking to Ward (a villain who has some fans clamoring for his redemption):

 

 

Bobbi: See, I've seen the real Grant Ward, the one buried deep inside. He's a coward who always has an excuse or someone else to blame.

This was basically the show's answer to them. So refreshing. I mean, Regina really LOVES blaming everyone but herself for all the bad stuff in her life (Rumple, at least, is honest in this regard, more or less). I'm just so sick of this stuff.

[Shanna Marie]

From the now-closed spoilers thread, in discussing things to read/watch to study up on Camelot/Merlin:

Re: books, I remember reading Mary Stewart's series about Merlin. Sadly, I don't remember the title, but the first book was pretty good, at least (I only had 1 or 2).

I heartily second this recommendation. The first book is The Hollow Hills. The second is The Crystal Cave. The third is The Last Enchantment. I really like the first two, am not so crazy about the third. It's the Camelot story from the viewpoint of Merlin. The first book starts when he's  small child, so it's sort of the origin story. Then he grows up and grows in power. He's the old man we think of when we think of Merlin in the third book, which may be why I don't like it as much. I had a huge book crush on the Merlin in the first two books, and it's less fun to read about your book boyfriend when he's an old man.

 

I would also recommend the musical Camelot, but I'm not crazy about the movie version. I much prefer it on stage. I've been lucky enough to see it with Richard Harris, Robert Goulet and Michael York as Arthur over the years. The original Broadway cast for the soundtrack (Julie Andrews, Richard Burton, Robert Goulet) is pretty much the definitive version for me.

[FurryFury]

Yeah, the first book was a pretty good coming of age story. I've felt for Merlin a lot.

 

I've also heard a lot about Mists of Avalon but never came around to reading it.

 

I also know about a gritty, no-magic (or is it?) retelling of the Arthurian mythos, where Guinevere is basically a whore and Lancelot is a mindless barbarian or something like that... I don't remember the author, but he seems to be popular in the same circles that love gritty fantasy popularized by George Martin.

Edited May 17, 2015 by FurryFury

[Camera One]

"The Hollow Hills" is available at my local public library, so I'm going to read that this summer.  Thanks for the suggestion!  I like to learn about characters before I see them destroyed, LOL.

[Shanna Marie]

Oops, I may have the Merlin trilogy order wrong, now that I've checked my bookcase. It looks like The Crystal Cave comes first. That's the one that's mostly about Merlin's childhood. It's hard to tell from the covers and the cover blurb, but The Crystal Cave has an earlier copyright date and the main narrative (there's a prologue) starts when he's six. The Hollow Hills covers the time when Arthur is a child.

 

At least the first two are first-person narration from Merlin's point of view. It's mostly the Welsh folklore version of the mythology and getting into the transitional time after the Roman invasion, so it reads a lot more like a historical epic than a fantasy.

[Mathius]

This was basically the show's answer to them. So refreshing. I mean, Regina really LOVES blaming everyone but herself for all the bad stuff in her life (Rumple, at least, is honest in this regard, more or less). I'm just so sick of this stuff.

Responding in the Villains thread.

[Delphi]

The Mists of Avalon was very good, but very long (maybe too long?). I loved it when I read it but I never bothered rereading it.

[Mari]

I've also heard a lot about Mists of Avalon but never came around to reading it.

 

 

The Mists of Avalon was very good, but very long (maybe too long?). I loved it when I read it but I never bothered rereading it.

It was always on my "to be read list," because I've heard it's amazing, but I never got around to it, and then couldn't bring myself to read it after I heard about the molestation accusations.

[Shanna Marie]

I tried reading The Mists of Avalon and couldn't get into it. I remember reading a chapter or two, then flipping ahead to see if it got more interesting, and I don't think I ever finished it.

 

I did like The Once and Future King.

[Delphi]

It was always on my "to be read list," because I've heard it's amazing, but I never got around to it, and then couldn't bring myself to read it after I heard about the molestation accusations.

I didn't even know about that until you said something, just now. Wow.

My mom got me the book while I was in middle school assuming because I loved reading so much and all things Arthurian that my thirteen year old brain would want to spend all that time reading a massive tome. (Spoiler alert: I didn't.)

I tried a few times but didn't end up reading it until later in my teens and it was good. Parts of it ate a bit off colour and frankly darker than I look for (not GoT dark but still) but I think it's definitely worth reading.

Knowing about the accusations now , Mari, I could see why you'd be put off and there are some scenes in the book that you might question/raise eyebrows with this knowledge. But I think it still holds up as a very good piece of literature.

[Mari]

Knowing about the accusations now , Mari, I could see why you'd be put off and there are some scenes in the book that you might question/raise eyebrows with this knowledge. But I think it still holds up as a very good piece of literature.

Yeah, I don't doubt it's well-written--I'd read other things by Zimmer Bradley and truly enjoyed them.  She was definitely gifted.  The Avalon series was on my list, but I just hadn't gotten around to it.  Now I'm too squicked.  (I was the same way about Michael Jackson's music, and I can't tell you the last Roman Polanski movie I saw.)

[Souris]

I really enjoyed the Guinevere-centric series by Persia Woolley.

 

I thought Mists of Avalon was just OK when I read it; didn't like it as much as I thought I would. The recent accusations certainly don't make me want to revisit it.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Souris

[Writing Wrongs]

ITV television movie Peter & Wendy coming:

 

 

 

ITV has ordered a brand new version of J.M. Barrie’s classic story, Peter Pan.

Peter and Wendy “reinterprets this timeless story for the modern age while remaining faithful to the spirit of the original”.

Adapted by The Musketeers writer Adrian Hodges, the two-hour drama will feature singer Paloma Faith as Tinker Bell, Stanley Tucci (The Devil Wears Prada) as Captain Hook and Laura Fraser (Breaking Bad, Lip Service) as Mrs Darling.

Producer Stewart Mackinnon commented: “The drama will retain the classic structure and content of J.M Barrie’s original Peter Pan, while adding a new framing story designed to allow audiences a different way into the story. The modern framework makes funny and at times poignant connections with the original material, while allowing the film to make an affectionate nod towards the traditional theatrical device of actors doubling and even tripling in different roles. This device also establishes a connection with Great Ormond Street Hospital, the world famous children’s hospital that has become irrevocably associated with Peter Pan.”

ITV’s Director of Drama Steve November added: “I’m delighted to be bringing J.M. Barrie’s classic story of Peter Pan to ITV. This wonderful interpretation by Adrian Hodges is faithful to Barrie’s original, but adds a new and unexpected dimension that makes it feel as though we are hearing the story for the first time. We’re thrilled to have such a great cast on board to star in this exciting new drama.”

Peter and Wendy is filming now, with the shoot taking place in Luxembourg, London and Dorset.

[legaleagle53]

I notice no mention of who has been cast as Peter.

[jhlipton]

I've also heard a lot about Mists of Avalon but never came around to reading it.

 

I read it (love almost all things Arthurian) and as with many of Zimmer Bradley's books there was a distinct "We're FEMINISTS, dammit!" overtone.  But I read when it first came out -- I might enjoy it more now.  (One of the Science Fiction conventions back in the day had a fictional "debate" between Zimmer Bradley and John Norman, author of the hyper-masculine "Gor" series.)

[Dianthus]

Writing Wrongs, on 20 May 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

ITV television movie Peter & Wendy coming:

Oh, I love me some Stanley Tucci!

[FurryFury]

Gor? Ewwww. Just ewww. I'd take any heavy-handed feminist rhetoric over that, thank you.

[HoodlumSheep]

Speaking of Peter Pan, I didn't see this posted yet, so here's the newest Pan trailer:

https://twitter.com/panmovie/status/600512593225125888

Still not liking Rooney Mara as Tiger Lily. After watching this trailer, I'm having some doubts about this movie. I'll probably just rent it.

The Neverland world looks very creative, but the only character that interests me is Black Beard.

[jhlipton]

Gor? Ewwww. Just ewww. I'd take any heavy-handed feminist rhetoric over that, thank you.

As would anyone in their right mind.

Zimmer Bradley did do one cool thing -- she was one of the people who founded the Society for Creative Anachronism (a "medieval history-by-doing" club is how I describe it).

[Writing Wrongs]

Live action Tinker Bell movie starring Reese Witherspoon:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/reese-witherspoon-star-disneys-live-797424

 

Like Maleficent, this Tinker Bell tale is conceived as “the story you don’t know,” and will offer a new perspective on the character.

 

Ugh.

[FurryFury]

How many Peter Pan-inspired movies do we really need?

[KingOfHearts]

Let's make a story with Captain Hook and call it Hook. Let's make a story with Peter Pan and call it Pan. Let's make a story with Tinker Bell and call it Tink. Am I seeing a trend here?

 

 

How many Peter Pan-inspired movies do we really need?

Aren't there other fairy tales that deserve more adaptations? Are people really all that interested in Neverland?

Edited May 22, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[ParadoxLost]

Watching Supernatural last night, I realized that the Dark One curse and the Mark of Cain are basically the same thing.

 

When Death started explaining how the world was overrun by Darkness and God bound it into Lucifer but then it started taking over and the curse can be removed but you must select someone to take the Mark and the burden of keeping the evil bound or whatever, I was like 'this is very familiar'.

[Camera One]

I guess there are only so many sci-fi plots.  The worst case scenario for Dark Emma is that we find out in the Season 5 premiere that she did not survive the darkness and she died, but the Darkness is now using her body as a vessel, so for the remainder of the show, she will be an evil villain representing all darkness.  Variations of that has occurred on "Buffy" and "Angel".

[Shanna Marie]

The worst case scenario for Dark Emma is that we find out in the Season 5 premiere that she did not survive the darkness and she died, but the Darkness is now using her body as a vessel, so for the remainder of the show, she will be an evil villain representing all darkness.

Bite your tongue and wash your mouth out with soap.

 

At least when they did that on Angel, it was for the last half dozen or so episodes of the entire series, it wasn't involving the main character/hero of the show, and Illyria was a lot less irritating than Fred, so it was actually an upgrade. With Angel/Angelus, that duality was always part of the character, so it wasn't like taking the hero and just randomly turning him into a villain. They always knew there was a possibility of villain lurking beneath the hero.

 

Then again, Whedon really, really liked turning his heroes dark. In addition to Angel/Angelus, there was Dark Willow, and then on Angel there was Wesley's dark phase. Buffy had her phase of wallowing in despair and self-loathing, but I'm not sure I'd call it truly "dark." But at least with Whedon I never felt like the underlying message was "see, heroes are just as bad as villains" or even "now the heroes can understand just how difficult the poor woobie villains' lives are." If anything, it showed how difficult it was to be a hero because things were bound to come crashing down around you, and you had to just keep trying. Everyone in that universe was shades of gray, and while the word "champion" was overused to the point that it was dangerous to build a drinking game around it, they didn't get so much into all that "heroes" and "villains" stuff and I don't think anyone ever unironically brought up the concept of getting a happy ending.

[Camera One]

No, that was never the message on Whedon shows.  But it still ruined some of the characters.  I didn't like what he did to Cordelia either.  It seems to be common on many shows where the writers just find it more interesting to write evil or dark versions of their characters in the later seasons.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Camera One

[Souris]

I guess there are only so many sci-fi plots.  The worst case scenario for Dark Emma is that we find out in the Season 5 premiere that she did not survive the darkness and she died, but the Darkness is now using her body as a vessel, so for the remainder of the show, she will be an evil villain representing all darkness.  Variations of that has occurred on "Buffy" and "Angel".

 

[Shanna Marie]

I didn't like what he did to Cordelia either.

Oh, I'd managed to successfully block that. Though according to some rumors that were flying at the time, that may have been a case of Whedon taking it out on the character when the actor did something he didn't like (the dark side of his tendency to create an acting company of sorts that he draws upon repeatedly and keeps as close friends -- if you break ranks, it's a personal betrayal). Supposedly, she didn't say anything about her pregnancy until she was obviously showing, after they'd plotted an entire arc, written most of it and even filmed some of the episodes, so they were left scrambling to come up with something at the last second and having to trash all their plans, when if they'd known even a month earlier they might have been able to work around it better.

 

But for the most part, it was a case of the writing for the character being so off the rails that there was no way to recover -- a possible object lesson for the way Regina is written. They went so overboard on a redemption arc that it got so ridiculous they had to retcon it as all part of an evil scheme in which she was being used and duped. Cordelia was just a bitch, never evil like Regina, and they'd done a good job of rehabbing her when she moved to the spinoff, so she was still her blunt, somewhat selfish and shallow self, but she'd gained a huge dose of empathy from her circumstances and from the power that made her feel the suffering of others when they were sent a signal to go help. And then for whatever bizarre reason, they took it too far until she was literally sainted and ascending to heaven to become a Higher Power. It was so ridiculous that they ended up having to say, "Ha, can't believe she fell for that!" and then kill her off. Light magic spewing Regina is getting awfully close.