S04.E07: Mockingbird

[Drogo]

 

Now that Lysa has added 'physical' to 'mental and emotional' to the things about her that are a complete mess, I wonder what is going to happen when Sandor shows up looking for his reward. Will Littlefinger pay him? Will Arya and the Hound even be allowed in?

 

I don't think the new Hound is about to leave either of those girls in the Eyrie with Littlefinger.

[terrymct]

Folks here are talking about the ages of the characters.  How much older than Tyrion is Oberyn?  He talks about seeing Tyrion as a baby.  Oberyn can’t be (or certainly doesn’t look) any older than Tyrion. 

 

He should be around Cersei and Jamie's age.   Cersei was offering to show the other kids the "monster baby", then took them into Tyrion's nursery.

[Constantinople]

Now that Lysa has added 'physical' to 'mental and emotional' to the things about her that are a complete mess, I wonder what is going to happen when Sandor shows up looking for his reward. Will Littlefinger pay him? Will Arya and the Hound even be allowed in?

 

If Arya and the Hound hear about Lysa's death, I wonder if they'll abandon their trek to the Eyrie.

[JTMacc99]

If Arya and the Hound hear about Lysa's death, I wonder if they'll abandon their trek to the Eyrie.

They're really close to being there. I'm not sure where else they would go.

[bluvelvet]

Also, I think LF was in love with Cat. I think he literally sees Cat everytime he looks at Sansa. I don't think anyone would have predicted Ned Strak death because nobody expected Joffrey to be that much of a twat and a psycho because that was sure to start a war. So he probably thought "my,my,my... this is turning out even better than I thought!". His speech about love conquering all leads to believe that he thinks that had he been a Lord, he and Catelyn would have been together 100%. Delusion? Maybe, but I think he genuinely thought so, I think he probably idealises their story in his mind everytime he reminisces. He probably thought that power was the only obstacle between them, because he was so gauche when he saw her in the tent that I can't help but think that was one of the few times he was expressing his real feelings.

He probably sees a young Catelyn when he looks at Sansa, not the mature woman who was a mother and a wife. Sansa represents the girl from his boyhood. The one he fought a duel to win and now he sees the chance for a do over.

Really creepy.

[Drogo]

 

They're really close to being there. I'm not sure where else they would go.

 

IHOP? 

 

Weird question, I know it's "burnt down" but.. is anyone at Winterfell?

[Lady S.]

Weird question, I know it's "burnt down" but.. is anyone at Winterfell?

The corpses of the Starks down in the crypts and the ghosts of Ser Rodrik and Maester Luwin and anyone else who died there. Living? Maybe some vagrants squatting, not anyone who lived there before Ramsay torched it. He would have taken any survivors back to the Dreadfort for his games.

One more thing about Littlefinger, Ned's death was a surprise, not an unforeseeable effect of his arrest. Varys tells him he's a dead man the first time he visits Ned in the dungeons. The only reason Joffrey had him brought out, but wasn't supposed to execute him was because Ned agreed to confess, a deal Varys helped arrange.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Lady S.

[fantique]

He probably sees a young Catelyn when he looks at Sansa, not the mature woman who was a mother and a wife. Sansa represents the girl from his boyhood. The one he fought a duel to win and now he sees the chance for a do over.

Really creepy.

I know right... especially as he JUST finished talking about how she could have been his daughter. I let myself hope for like a 100th of a second that maybe he wasn't being a creep but fatherly... And the he says 'Call me Peter'. Full body shiver. Oh Sansa what are we going to do with you?

On another note I like the Sophie Turner attempted that little sadistic smile when he says 'What do we do to those who hurt the ones we love?'. It wasn't pushed enough but I think it's to show her slowly crossing over to the sly side just like Arya is becoming a better killer. I wouldn't be surprised if she tried to use his affection for her to her advantage by the end of the season. Just hope she is cunning enough.

[Constantinople]

They're really close to being there. I'm not sure where else they would go.

 

The Hound talked about crossing the sea and joining the Second Sons.

 

Arya wanted to go to Braavos with Jaqen at the end of Season 2.  The only reason she didn't was to find her family.  Now that everyone in her family is dead or missing, she might go there (once again, provided Arya and the Hound find out that dear Aunt Lysa is dead).

[KurlyGrl]

 

It's too bad that map doesn't work like the Marauder's map from Harry Potter.

 

 

That's so funny!!  LOL!!

[TooMuchCoffee]

Many people have commented on that. Aiden is a good actor, so he must have a reason for this. Is he trying to sound more highborn than he is? To show LF's attempts at hiding his true origins? I may be reaching (non-native speaker here, the only one who strikes me as weird is Tyrion's).

 

ETA: ok, I just read an article where he says he wants LF to sound "patriarchal" and that his accent should shift. So, make of that what you want.

 

An article about the GoT accents (no spoilers): http://gawker.com/what-is-going-on-with-the-accents-in-game-of-thrones-485816507

 

The mockingbird (the feathered variety) got its name because of its ability to accurately mimic the calls of other birds.  Littlefinger chose his sigil wisely. 

[KurlyGrl]

 

The mockingbird (the feathered variety) got its name because of its ability to accurately mimic the calls of other birds.  Littlefinger chose his sigil wisely.

 

Hmmm.  Never knew that about the mockingbird.  That's very interesting.  But now I feel stupid, cause the name Mockingbird now makes a whole lotta sense. Forehead slap!!  So, I guess the Mockingjay (Hunger Games) was based off of a real bird.  

[TooMuchCoffee]

Hmmm.  Never knew that about the mockingbird.  That's very interesting.  But now I feel stupid, cause the name Mockingbird now makes a whole lotta sense. Forehead slap!!  So, I guess the Mockingjay (Hunger Games) was based off of a real bird.  

The mockingbird is the state bird of Florida. :)  That's the only reason I knew that.

[Stardancer Supreme]

I don't think the new Hound is about to leave either of those girls in the Eyrie with Littlefinger.

 

Brienne probably won't want to do that either.  But what can be done about the Stark girls?  Their only known living relative is Jon at the Wall.  Winterfell is ashes.  Where could they possibly go?  Now that Loony Lysa is gone, they may have no choice but to hunker down at the Eyrie. 

 

As for character ages, I'm willing to overlook the Mountain looking younger than the Hound.  Something tells me that it probably won't matter once Oberyn gets his chance to properly avenge Elia and her children.  Since they couldn't keep one person playing him, it would have been better to have him in full armor whenever he had to be shown.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Stardancer Supreme

[Isazouzi]

The mockingbird is the state bird of Florida. :)  That's the only reason I knew that.

Maybe LF knows "it's a sin to kill a mockingbird because they sing their hearts out for us". ;-)

[Constantinople]

Doesn't the "Red God" owe two lives now that Rogre and the other guy are dead?  After Arya saved them from burning to death in the flaming wagon in Season 2, Jaqen killed The Tickler and Ser Amory Lorch as compensation for the Red God.  But now Rorge, the other guy, the Tickler and Lorch are all dead.

 

So isn't a refund in order?

[LittleIggy]

Wonder where Robin will get his milk now.

[dr pepper]

Yep. Also way too modern. He looks like one of those circus wrestlers who wore a handlebar mustache and a striped unitard. BOO on the (third) casting. He should look more filthy, unkempt, smelly, and scary.

 

Yeah, agreed on the wrestler vibe. He's big, but no one would call him a mountain. He's what, 2 heads taller than Cersei? That's barely beyond an average difference due to sex. He should be at least 3 heads taller and more than a shoulder wider.

I wondered why Arya didn't have any more of a reaction when that bounty seeking guy said that the King was dead. I expected her to say something like "Wait! Did you say Joffrey was dead?" Maybe the news went over her head. BTW, I was surprised that the Hound gave a dying man a drink of water.

 

Man's gotta have a code. The Hound was all about duty until he reached his breaking point, but it makes sense that second to that would be the professional bond between soldiers, whatever side they're on. So he gave grace to a fellow soldier as he would expect it himself.

[TooMuchCoffee]

 Was the dying man a soldier?  I thought he was the victim of  the same guys that jumped the Hound.

(It was still a nice gesture.)

Edited May 20, 2014 by TooMuchCoffee

[Meredith Quill]

Re Looking younger, I've decided it must be down to The Mountain having a MUCH better skincare regime than The Hound.

[Drogo]

 

I've decided it must be down to The Mountain having a MUCH better skincare regime than The Hound.

 

Correct.  

 

The Mountain makes it a point to remove all makeup before bed, use a rich creme Chanel moisturizer, and never ever ever *ever* set his own face on fire.  

[Unknown poster]

According to every bio I've seen, the new mountain is 6'9 and at least 400lbs. I'd say he would be worthy of that nickname.

[Unusual Suspect]

Re Looking younger, I've decided it must be down to The Mountain having a MUCH better skincare regime than The Hound.

 

Also, being a psychopath means much less stress in your life. And he's clearly the favored son. 

[NoWillToResist]

 

According to every bio I've seen, the new mountain is 6'9 and at least 400lbs.

 

Wow, he...doesn't look it, to me. Good for him?

[millahnna]

He looks it in that pic upthread with Lena (they're both grinning like charming loons).  The guy is a truck.  He's massive.

[ToniG]

Yeah, I'd say he's pretty big: http://iamnedstarksmissinghead.tumblr.com/post/63751395390/the-mountain-and-cersei-lannister

[NoWillToResist]

Tall, I'll give you, but he just doesn't look that broad, to me.

 

I hear '400 pounds' and I expect...well...a mountain. I guess muscle weighs more than fat (I've seen 300 pounds of person look WAY wider) so perhaps that's why I think he looks positively svelte for a 400 pound dude.

Edited May 21, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[LittleIggy]

Was the dying man a soldier?  I thought he was the victim of  the same guys that jumped the Hound.

(It was still a nice gesture.)

I think the guy was a farmer. He mentioned his house there close by. It was a nice gesture by the Hound. I've had a soft spot for him since he was shown to be protective of Sansa. And you gotta love "Fuck the king"!

[Lady S.]

Doesn't the "Red God" owe two lives now that Rogre and the other guy are dead?  After Arya saved them from burning to death in the flaming wagon in Season 2, Jaqen killed The Tickler and Ser Amory Lorch as compensation for the Red God.  But now Rorge, the other guy, the Tickler and Lorch are all dead.

 

So isn't a refund in order?

Only death can pay for life, but no one's said anything about needing life to pay for death.

[Drogo]

 

Wonder where Robin will get his milk now.

The only beverages in Westeros are water, Lysa Arryn's breastmilk, and wine. 

 

Following Dany's booty call, when she told Jelly Jorah to alert Lothario Daario that *he* had changed her mind... I had a mental image of Jorah riding out to Daario and yelling "I changed her mind......... with my Mormont greatsword!"

 

Epic. 

[Constantinople]

Doesn't the "Red God" owe two lives now that Rogre and the other guy are dead?  After Arya saved them from burning to death in the flaming wagon in Season 2, Jaqen killed The Tickler and Ser Amory Lorch as compensation for the Red God.  But now Rorge, the other guy, the Tickler and Lorch are all dead.

 

So isn't a refund in order?

 

 

Only death can pay for life, but no one's said anything about needing life to pay for death.

At the very least, I think Arya should get a +2 credit so that she doesn't have to kill anyone in exchange for the next 2 people she saves, if she ever saves anyone else again, that is.

 

 

Also, being a psychopath means much less stress in your life. And he's clearly the favored son.

I imagine the lack of self-doubt leads to fewer worry lines, which helps preserve that fresh faced look.

[Reishe]

Re: the size of the actors playing the Mountain. I swear I've seen a quote somewhere from GRR Martin saying that it would be impossible to cast the role as he imagined it, b/c there just isn't anyone alive that big. The casting directors have to work with the actors who are available (although I understand that sometimes these special body-type roles are cast from outside typical acting circles), and I don't imagine there are a lot of extraordinarily large men out there trying to get acting work, b/c they aren't going to get called back for much but these niche jobs. I know that some cinema magic can be worked a la The Lord of the Rings, but I imagine that was complex and took lots of time, which in the business equals lots of money. The director pretty much has to do what has been done in this episode: rely on camera angles, avoid showing his entire profile near something that would clarify the scale, and rely on the goodwill of the viewer to accept that some things are easier to capture on film than others.

[seacliffsal]

I believe that this is the first falling snow that we've seen south of the Wall.  Does this mean that winter IS finally coming?  It was such a beautiful scene-especially with the redness of Sansa's hair.  Then, after the episode ended and while I was still stunned I thought 'wait a minute....SNOW!'

[dr pepper]

Not much cinema magic needed if you make a suit of armor of the right size, including gauntlets and boots, and give your actor enough padding to fill it.

[Drogo]

 

I believe that this is the first falling snow that we've seen south of the Wall.  Does this mean that winter IS finally coming?

 

I believe the snow in the Eyrie is similar to the snow-capped mountains of California.  There's snow only because it's several thousand feet above sea level.  

[Haldebrandt]

I believe that this is the first falling snow that we've seen south of the Wall.  Does this mean that winter IS finally coming?  It was such a beautiful scene-especially with the redness of Sansa's hair.  Then, after the episode ended and while I was still stunned I thought 'wait a minute....SNOW!'

 

There are mountains south of the wall, and it snows at high elevations.  The Vale of Arryn is a mountainous region and the Eyrie is deep inside it and clearly very high up.

 

Also, I distinctly saw snow on the ground when Cat and Ser Rodrick met Robb's host in The Pointy End.  Ser Rodrick said something like "Summer snows!", to which Catelyn replied "Robb brought the North with him."  Presumably they were in the Riverlands.

 

Also, even if we don't see snow, if it's cold enough to dress like this, it's probably cold enough for snow:

 

So, snow and cold does not automatically mean Winter (any more than they do in real life).

[WicketyWack]

I have to admit, after hearing Lysa hissing to Sansa how people flying out of the Moon Door disintegrated upon landing, I really wanted to see the teeniest weeniest little *pop* of red at the end of her fall.

[terrymct]

Re Looking younger, I've decided it must be down to The Mountain having a MUCH better skincare regime than The Hound.

 

A better dentist, too.  The actor playing The Hound could eat corn on the cob through a fence.

[Mz Anthrope]

In rewatching this episode, I completely fast forwarded past the Dany and Milisandra (sp?) portions.   The sorcery portion I get, but enough with the tits and asses.  Dany is just dull and useless as far as I am concerned.   Wow, we get to see her finally getting some?  Don't care.

 

I really liked the interactions between the Hound and Arya.  I think this may be the only female he's been around in quite possibly forever who stuck with him, didn't taunt him (outside of their mutual verbal jousting) and who has, what he would see as an acceptable 'code' - even if he's on her list.  I really liked seeing him do the right thing by the suffering farmer as well as disclosing how he felt regarding the incident with his brother and father.  Best line "wish it was wine"   "Me too".  Well done.

[Drogo]

 

I really liked the interactions between the Hound and Arya.  I think this may be the only female he's been around in quite possibly forever who stuck with him, didn't taunt him (outside of their mutual verbal jousting) and who has, what he would see as an acceptable 'code' - even if he's on her list.  I really liked seeing him do the right thing by the suffering farmer as well as disclosing how he felt regarding the incident with his brother and father.  Best line "wish it was wine"   "Me too".

 

By far, my favorite scene.  The farmer wanted to kill himself, but he was afraid of the Nothing*.  What does the Hound have, if not Nothing? 

 

So he decides to let Arya in a little and now he's got a clean wound and a little apprentice.  Yeah yeah, I know he's on her list, but I'm pretty sure he used to be smack in the middle of it and now he's last.

 

*If you've ever seen The Neverending Story, you are aware that The Nothing ain't nothin' to fuck wit.

 

Which reminds me... Best kiss of the episode is HERE - sorry Sansa+Littlefinger. 

[Ace]

I wonder if Lysanne's story about bodies breaking apart was more than just crazy talk. It could mean that she was trying to scare Sansa and did not really intend to kill her.

[NoWillToResist]

 

I wonder if Lysanne's story about bodies breaking apart was more than just crazy talk. It could mean that she was trying to scare Sansa and did not really intend to kill her.

 

Oh, I have no doubt that if she really thought that Sansa could not be warned away from Littlefinger, she would have taken Sansa out. She is CRAZY possessive. In her defense, she wasn't wrong to worry about how Sansa might fuck up her future with Littlefinger, but she was blaming the wrong person for having a hidden agenda. She views Littlefinger as a dear, lovely man, so it must be Sansa trying to ensnare him with her youth and beauty. *eye roll*

[SoWindsor]

Upon re watch I sensed much more chemistry between danerys and Dario 2.0. Disappointed that there was no hot sex scene between them. I wonder why they made that choice. IMO the only hot sex scene we ever got was Dany and Drogo when she wanted to "look upon your face."

Did anyone notice she sounded a bit like Dracula when she said "take off your clothes." Reminded me of "I want to suck your blood."

[Ace]

 

but she was blaming the wrong person for having a hidden agenda.

Tully women seem to have a trait for blaming the innocent. Catelynn directed all her hate and anguish towards Jon Snow instead of Ned  himself. 

[NoWillToResist]

 

Tully women seem to have a trait for blaming the innocent. Catelynn directed all her hate and anguish towards Jon Snow instead of Ned  himself.

 

Heh. Well, while the sisters catch up in the afterlife, Ned and Jon Arryn can commiserate with each other... ;D

[CletusMusashi]

Finally made time to rewatch the ep tonight. Some things I didn't really think about much the first time:

 

Arya is the first Stark we've seen to profess anything close to atheism. We know that nonbelievers exist on the show, because Stannis admits that he himself was faking it until he saw proof, but the Starks seem to take their old gods and traditions very seriously. Arya, at the very least, seems convinced that the afterlife consists of absolutely nothing. Kind of a big deal for someone who comes from a traditional old-fashioned family of fantasy heroes in a world populated by magical shapeshifting assassins and whatnot.

 

"These are my private quarters. If I want you here, I will summon you," is quite possibly the funniest thing Danaerys could have said to Daario right before giving in.

The only thing missing was him replying with "That's what she said."

 

And, it's pretty impressively thorough that Cersei took the time to make an offer to Bron. I mean, we sort of think he might have been able to take the Mountain somehow, on a TV show, largely through the magic of being a main character with plot armor, but I certainly wouldn't expect Cersei to think that. Maybe she just wanted to make absolutely certain that Tyrion had to get chopped up himself, instead of just being sent to The Wall or whatever after somebody else got chopped up for him. Well, tough luck there, sis.

[Isazouzi]

And, it's pretty impressively thorough that Cersei took the time to make an offer to Bron. I mean, we sort of think he might have been able to take the Mountain somehow, on a TV show, largely through the magic of being a main character with plot armor, but I certainly wouldn't expect Cersei to think that. Maybe she just wanted to make absolutely certain that Tyrion had to get chopped up himself, instead of just being sent to The Wall or whatever after somebody else got chopped up for him. Well, tough luck there, sis.

 

Ah, but don't forget the psychological torture that she exerts on Tyrion by taking away his only defender, his last hope. I don't think she thought Bron had a chance against the Mountain, but better safe than sorry, and if she can inflict even more pain on Tyrion by doing so.

 Kind of a big deal for someone who comes from a traditional old-fashioned family of fantasy heroes in a world populated by magical shapeshifting assassins and whatnot.

 

Kind of a big deal for someone who's seen a dude come back from the dead thanks to the Lord of Light!

[Ace]

 

Arya is the first Stark we've seen to profess anything close to atheism. ......... Arya, at the very least, seems convinced that the afterlife consists of absolutely nothing. Kind of a big deal for someone who comes from a traditional old-fashioned family of fantasy heroes in a world populated by magical shapeshifting assassins and whatnot.

 

Good point, non-belief seems to be a key feature of Arya's character. She clearly doesn't believe in the Lord of Light or trial by combat since The Hound (who was exonerated by tbh) is still on her list.

 

 

Kind of a big deal for someone who's seen a dude come back from the dead thanks to the Lord of Light!

 

Being an atheist, perhaps Arya saw the resurrection as just a form of magic.  

 

 

 

 

And, it's pretty impressively thorough that Cersei took the time to make an offer to Bron. I mean, we sort of think he might have been able to take the Mountain somehow, on a TV show, largely through the magic of being a main character with plot armor.....

 

 

 

Bron defeated the Eyrie champion by evading his strikes until he tired. This would appear to be exactly the sort of style to use against a big heavy man like the mountain. I doubt Cercei would be able to evaluate reports of the previous trial by combat and see Bron as a serious threat. But she could have sort advice from the Kings Guard or Tywin.

[Drogo]

 

Ah, but don't forget the psychological torture that she exerts on Tyrion by taking away his only defender, his last hope.

This, times 1,000. 

 

Cersei doesn't just want coins over Tyrion's eyes... she wants him to have absolutely nothing and no one left before they're put there, and she wants his last days spent thinking of "the wrong" he's done to her. 

 

Reminds me of this gem from Sonny in A Bronx Tale...  "Look at me... *I* did this to you! REMEMBER ME!"

[Lady S.]

Heh. Well, while the sisters catch up in the afterlife, Ned and Jon Arryn can commiserate with each other... ;D

Jon Arryn is the only one with reason to complain. Ned created the situation with Jon, he was no victim there, only Jon was.