S28.E13: It's Do or Die

[bluebonnet]

System Remote, I agree with all that (except I like One World and think any cast with Kim in it is automatically a good cast), but it seemed above you were saying they gave Tony idols, or lead him to them, and that I can't agree with.  Doesn't even make sense from a producer manipulation standpoint.

Oops, sorry! I didn't mean to imply that!  It would ruin the game for me if I even had a moment's thought that they might be handing an idol straight to a player.  Russell and Tony have both become known as idol whisperers because they find so many idols.  I think production does a good job managing the story to show that these two players found idols through actual work.  We always saw both of them just constantly moving.  I would call foul if someone like Morgan 'stumbled' across several idols.  

[Tristan Tzara]

 

 

Some things might have irritated me less had the season not been skewed towards Tony from the very start.

They identified him as the season's "character" and made it all about him.

I still suspect the show of having a hand in Tony finding so many immunity idols.

 

I completely agree. Awaiting cameras just happened to be pointed in right direction, for the special immunity at the very least. 

 

I gagged when I saw a set of promos pics (on CBS website?) before the show. Three were wide shots of multiple players on the poles, and ONE a SOLO close-up of Tony. Really?

[millennium]

Sometimes I wonder why people of color bother participating in Survivor.   Lately It seems the key to winning -- or at the very least the key to being placed comfortably on the path to winning -- is to be white male/working class/annoying, conniving or both.

 

I really wanted Tasha to win this but I feel like the odds were against her from the start.

[Shock Corridor]

 

Sometimes I wonder why people of color bother participating in Survivor.   Lately It seems the key to winning -- or at the very least the key to being placed comfortably on the path to winning -- is to be white male/working class/annoying, conniving or both.

 

I really wanted Tasha to win this but I feel like the odds were against her from the start.

Well, yes, me too. Except it had nothing to do with her race, and everything to do with her dumb luck (with a side order of Kass). Spencer was in the same boat. And although it's been ages since Vecepia's win, the one thing you CAN say about Survivor is that pretty much everyone from every race/religion/age/sexuality/social class and gender has got a winner in there somewhere. And even to look recently over the last couple of years, you've got Sophie, Kim and Denise who may not tick the black box (although there was Sabrina who went deep in OW) but they do cover the educated/older/younger/middle class tickets. And you know, conniving...is kind of the whole point of the game, so I'm not interested in a winner that DIDN'T do that. This isn't a congeniality contest. They have to play to deserve the win.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Shock Corridor

[Kromm]

In the end I like Woo more because his game had more honor and integrity. He didn't play as hard, but he played the better game, one that can be respected. 

In the game of life, sure.  In the game of Survivor?  I'm not so sure.

 

Woo was a follower.  And however nice, IMO a follower should never win Survivor.  Tony comes off like a shitty human being, but what he's got going for him is he's no follower.  And as annoying as she was, the same is true of Kass.  She played hard, so she's got some respect from me for that, as does Spencer.  All Woo did was win a strategic final immunity, and then make a stupid decision about who to take to the end (he probably would have had a slightly better chance against Kass, if only because she pissed off even more people than Tony, arguably).  

 

Kass was exactly right in comparing this marshmallow Woo to brainless Fabio.  Yuck.  What a comparison.

 

Kim Spradlin is probably the recent example in the past few years of a winner who successfully played a kind of overall "honor" game and too it all the way (only double crossing like one or two people directly--a microscopic number in this game). That said, the big difference is that her game was one based on leading.  Like Boston Rob in his later runs, her game was making herself an overt leader, pushing people in line, but also somehow charming them into not turning on her.  But Woo?  All he did was follow.  That in theory can win a game, but those are the seasons everyone moans about after the fact, where the debate becomes about voting being about "who had the best sob/inspiration story", or "who coattailed it the most".  Tony didn't coattail. Kass didn't coattail.  Spencer didn't coattail.  Woo did (and frankly, so did Trish, although marginally less than Woo).

Edited May 23, 2014 by Kromm

[millennium]

I wanted Tasha to win because she was kicking ass in the immunity challenges and because she struck me as a nice person.   It wasn't about her race.  

 

The only people who get extra attention -- and I suspect extra help -- from the show are the Russells, the Tonys, the Tysons, etc.

In the end I like Woo more because his game had more honor and integrity. He didn't play as hard, but he played the better game, one that can be respected. 

 

 

On the subject of Woo's supposed honor, which he himself introduced at the Final Tribal, I haven't seen anyone call him out on the very dishonorable act of looking into Kass's face and promising to take her to Final Two, then shamelessly breaking his word.   He went from "I will take you" to "I will certainly consider taking you" to writing her name down.

 

Also, what kind of "honorable" man steals a clue from the pants of another player, then runs away with it like a common street thief?

 

Woo's a legend in his own mind.

Edited May 23, 2014 by millennium

[Kromm]

Woo's a legend in his own mind.

Whoa!  Brah!  Stoked!  Gnarly!

[Kromm]

And Tony needs to thank Spencer for his win...

 

I'm of two minds about this finish, one says "Damn, Tony got away with allllll that shit!" and the other says "Bad choice Woo, grats to Spencer."

In the sense that Spencer, in the end, had the integrity to tell the truth.  We may hate the way the game works now, with Idols and such, but it is what it is once you're there and the game is in play.  Woo had zero game and was indeed a total goat.  Trish had a tiny bit of game, but was for the most part as Spencer said, a goat too.  Kass, Spencer and Tony had plenty of game.  Kass didn't quite have the guts or self-honesty to come out and say what Spencer did.  That if they had to be beat, they'd rather be beat by a paranoid annoying lying freak who overplayed and got away with it somehow than a goat (which still surprises me--I called this season for Woo weeks ago, incorrectly it seems).  

[Haleth]

Has anyone ever heard if jury members are coached about what to say/ask at FTC?  I wonder if producers push them to be harsh to keep up the suspense about who is going to win.

[ProfCrash]

 

Sometimes I wonder why people of color bother participating in Survivor.   Lately It seems the key to winning -- or at the very least the key to being placed comfortably on the path to winning -- is to be white male/working class/annoying, conniving or both.

Given the percentage of people who start the game, there is a small percentage that are people of color so their random chance of winning is pretty small. That said, Woo made it to the final two, which is pretty darn good. He didn't lose because Tony was white, he lost because he played a poor game. He did some things right.

 

1) He started in a strong tribe and kept it that way by winning challenges

2) He stayed out of the dramatic BS between the various Brawn membes (Trish/Cliff/Lindsey, apparently there was some Sarah/Lindsey dust up)

3) When part of his alliance flipped and voted out Cliff and then Lindsey quit, Woo was in abad place but he turned it around

4) He formed a strong alliance with Tony after losing Lindsey and Cliff

5) He maintained that alliance with Tony and Trish

6) He was quiet in camp which didn't piss people off, making him likeable

7) He was a bit goofy

8) He won two immunity challenges

 

The biggest problem with his game was that he was too quiet in camp so people had no way of knowing what type of game he was playing or even if he was playing. He was loyal to Tony and Trish to a fault and did not make any moves of his own or initiate any moves. So he was inoffensive, which would have been enough to win the game if he brought Kass, but not proactive enough to win against Tony.

 

I don't think that has a darn thing to do with his race, I think it has to do with his overall personality. Kass has described Woo as someone who is a great guy but who does not have the personality to play Survivor and I think that she is right. Every confrontation we saw showed Woo physically shrinking himself or removing himself to get away from the confrontation. He wanted nothing to do with it. He understands the need to blindside people but really was not able to do so. He wanted to vote LJ out instead of Cliff and that didn't happen. He was stuck with LJ and Jefra because of Tony and Trish but I don't think that was something he was comfortable with. He didn't need Tony's mechanations to vote out LJ, he wanted LJ gone long ago. So I don't think Woo sees LJ and Jefra as blindsides because I don't think that he saw them as allaince mates. In Woo's mind, and I base this off of his Rob C interview, Trish was the only person he blindsided and at that point he had to vote for Kass or Trish.

 

I have argued that there are certain strategies not available to people based on their personalities. I don't think Dawn, Lisa, or Michael Skupin could play the strategic mastermind because the lieing, blindsiding and the like is too far outside their comfort zones for a variety of reasons. I think Woo falls into that category for different reasons then Dawn, Lisa, and Michael. Ozzy cannot play a game that pits him against someone who played a good social game because Ozzy struggles with the social for different reasons then Kass does.

 

Lisa and Dawn lost because they played the wrong game for them. Not because they were women. Woo lost because he cannot play a game that is going to beat anyone who is playing a strategic game.

[KimberStormer]

 

Tony didn't coattail. Kass didn't coattail.  Spencer didn't coattail.  Woo did (and frankly, so did Trish, although marginally less than Woo).

 

In my opinion, Trish was absolutely right at FTC that the only reason Tony got anywhere was because she was doing all the work for him.  We all wondered how the hell anyone would trust a guy who's so obviously, in-your-face untrustworthy; the answer is that Trish was out there keeping people in the fold.  Of course that's next to impossible to show on TV, so it's hard to notice, but I think it's true and so I think Trish was not a coattail rider but a vital partner.  That's nothing against Tony's game; having good allies that fill the cracks in your own game is like half of what Survivor is about, in my opinion.

[Tryangle]

In my opinion, Trish was absolutely right at FTC that the only reason Tony got anywhere was because she was doing all the work for him.  We all wondered how the hell anyone would trust a guy who's so obviously, in-your-face untrustworthy; the answer is that Trish was out there keeping people in the fold.  Of course that's next to impossible to show on TV, so it's hard to notice, but I think it's true and so I think Trish was not a coattail rider but a vital partner.  That's nothing against Tony's game; having good allies that fill the cracks in your own game is like half of what Survivor is about, in my opinion.

 

What's interesting in relation to Tony is that at F5, he chose to target Trish over Woo or Kass, when it would be pretty obvious that Trish was more loyal to Tony than the other two. It took guts for him to join in the blindside vs saving her (via idol or putting Kass up). On the flip side, Trish would be more likely to take jury votes from Tony than Woo (or Kass) would be.

[fishcakes]

I don't believe Trish was a coattailer, but it's an overstatement to say she did all the work for Tony. She did some spaz-wrangling and damage control, but, honestly, there wasn't all that much damage, except for Jefra being mad after the LJ blindside. She's credited with keeping Jefra from flipping by talking her down, but that's not why Jefra didn't flip. Jefra didn't flip because she couldn't get Trish and Kass to flip, and Trish and Kass didn't flip because they viewed their alliance with Tony as their best bet to the finals. Tony played an active and risky game, and while Trish wasn't a passive player, she was passive with respect to Tony. He did things she didn't know about beforehand and didn't like after the fact, but she stuck with him until she was voted out. She knew Tony was lying and breaking promises right and left, but she made the classic mistake of thinking that she was the one he was being completely honest with and loyal to, even after the LJ and Jefra votes. She's not a bad player, but she got outplayed by Tony.

[Tryangle]

Oh and ETA yeah it also sucked they did no "Fallen Comrades" torch burning this year... I guess the editors were too tired of editing Tony to work on clips about the other players to show during the "ceremony". And yeah the little snippets only worked against the flow of the show and if the decision was to do Fallen Comrades or these stupid look-ins they, like Woo, made the wrong choice.

 

One problem with a Fallen Comrades thing in this particular 6-6-6 setup:

 

Pass David's torch:

Woo: Um, gnarly jacket

 

Pass Garrett's torch:

Tony: Don't know him but he'd probably have been a threat too

 

Pass Brice's torch:

Tony: ... I got nothin'

Woo: ... Um, ditto, bro

 

But I agree that the Probst look-ins were a waste of time. It's almost like they brought Rosie O'Donnell back to do showtunes or something.

[KimberStormer]

 

I don't believe Trish was a coattailer, but it's an overstatement to say she did all the work for Tony.

 

Yes, absolutely.  Bad wording on my part.  I meant she did a lot of work to get the other players on Tony's side.  It's not so much the post-blindside damage control, but the alliance-building at the start.  It looked from the first few episodes that Tony didn't have much interaction with people except Sarah.  I'm sure he came across as a shifty operator to everyone on the island as he did to us at home, and that having Trish say "no no, don't worry about Tony, I've got a read on him, he's a good guy" must have helped.  And yes, Tony outplayed her in the end.

[Kromm]

In my opinion, Trish was absolutely right at FTC that the only reason Tony got anywhere was because she was doing all the work for him.  We all wondered how the hell anyone would trust a guy who's so obviously, in-your-face untrustworthy; the answer is that Trish was out there keeping people in the fold.  Of course that's next to impossible to show on TV, so it's hard to notice, but I think it's true and so I think Trish was not a coattail rider but a vital partner.  That's nothing against Tony's game; having good allies that fill the cracks in your own game is like half of what Survivor is about, in my opinion.

 

Okay, I'll concede that.  Trish didn't coattail.  What she did was play a losing game in another sense from Woo.  She played a game where the most likely course was always her being voted out, because she came to believe her own lies, so to speak.  She had no cynicism at the heart of her game, and you lose it if you don't.

 

I will say that even near the end I thought Woo would win by accident (so in that sense I didn't think he was playing a losing game--only an un-admirable one).  I saw this as a "they vote for the person they hate least in the end" season (which I hate) and assumed that Woo could beat any of them at that game.  So in that sense, Spencer having the guts to say what he did probably DID win Tony the game.  I assumed this was going to be one of those petty juries who waah-waah all the way to the reunion special about being betrayed.

[EC Amber]

In the game of life, sure.  In the game of Survivor?  I'm not so sure.

The thing is, there are a lot of ways to win at Survivor. There is no "right" way to play the game. Some win by sheer force of will, some through dominating challenges, some through superb manipulation. There are some paths to winning that I admire more and some I admire less.

Woo's game is one that I admire far more than Tony.

Did Woo play the best game out there? No. I put Tasha in that spot with Spencer as a close second or even a tie (begrudingly, I never liked Spencer). I'm not even sure I would put Tony in the top 3 as I think Trish did more than she got credit in getting him that far.

But then I don't define the "best player" as the person who wins. I find that in this game how you play is really part of the game and the bigger part is how others play combined with circumstances out of the control of the player. Sometimes the winner is the default of who outlasted others who were better at outwitting and outplaying others and got bounced for something they couldn't control. YMMV obviously.

Also, what kind of "honorable" man steals a clue from the pants of another player, then runs away with it like a common street thief?.

 

Er, I don't think that is the way it went down. We can agree to disagree.

 

1) He started in a strong tribe and kept it that way by winning challenges

2) He stayed out of the dramatic BS between the various Brawn membes (Trish/Cliff/Lindsey, apparently there was some Sarah/Lindsey dust up)

3) When part of his alliance flipped and voted out Cliff and then Lindsey quit, Woo was in abad place but he turned it around

4) He formed a strong alliance with Tony after losing Lindsey and Cliff

5) He maintained that alliance with Tony and Trish

6) He was quiet in camp which didn't piss people off, making him likeable

7) He was a bit goofy

8) He won two immunity challenges

 

Lazy copy/pasting on my part, but this is a good list of why Woo can't be easily written off as just coat-tail riding.

 

[Kromm]

The thing is, there are a lot of ways to win at Survivor. There is no "right" way to play the game. Some win by sheer force of will, some through dominating challenges, some through superb manipulation. There are some paths to winning that I admire more and some I admire less.

Woo's game is one that I admire far more than Tony.

 

I did qualify it with "not so sure", not as an absolute and didn't state things in terms of right or wrong.

 

To me Woo's game sucked because Woo wasn't playing a game at all.  Which makes him the person I'd trust most to watch my kids, or the person I'd want there to housesit, or the person I'd trust my sister dating. And maybe even the person I'd most want to play Survivor with, because in the end (although I assumed he'd win), apparently all you had to do was luck into the right jury who wanted to reward playing rather than being the sidekick.

 

Woo represents the worst potential aspects of the show--the idea that it can often boil down to "who does the least"--but in this case it just worked out the other way in the end, in large part I agree with many, because of Spencer's speech at finale.  If Woo had won though, I would have simply rolled my eyes and just forgotten about it by next season.  It's no big deal to me.  I'm not for a second claiming Woo's victory would have not been legitimate.  Of course it would have been. Just the antithesis of good TV.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Stinger97

[EC Amber]

To me Woo's game sucked because Woo wasn't playing a game at all.  

 

Oh, I wouldn't agree with that at all. As listed, there were a number of things he did that kept him in the game despite having won immunity more than once (and more than Tony), kept him from having his name come up (despite his alliance being decimated by losing two allies in one night), etc etc. He may not have played a game that makes for "good tv" per some people's aesthetics, but he *did* play.

[Eggman]

Sometimes I wonder why people of color bother participating in Survivor.

 

My all-time favorite player was Earl, who was the first unanimous winner. 

Edited May 23, 2014 by Eggman

[Netfoot]

My all-time favorite player was Earl, who was the first unanimous winner.

 

Absolutely.  He didn't just win, he dominated the game-play from the start.  And not by being any sort of challenge monster.  He ruled the beach, by sheer force of character.

 

It makes me sick that a great player like Earl has to share the title of Sole Survivor with congealed snot like Tony Vlachos and his ilk.

[Subrookie]

I wish I didn't have to see Parvati every season. She's one of my least favorite players of the game and now she's managed to parlay her game into a yearly reality show paycheck.

I'm watching the finale again tonight. What a disappointment the end of this season was. A Kass/Woo finale would have been really close I think. I did like they went to a final 2 though.

[Miss Scarlet]

I wish I didn't have to see Parvati every season. She's one of my least favorite players of the game and now she's managed to parlay her game into a yearly reality show paycheck.

 

 

What I find weird is that she always used to act like she was too cool for Survivor. She said she didn't watch any of the seasons she wasn't on and that she didn't go to any of the events or hang out with any of the former players. Yet she'll accept any job that's Survivor related. Maybe it's time for a real career. This is also one of the reasons why I never understand why Survivor lionizes certain people about how awesome they are. If people are talking within the game, I get it, but people will say that about her more generally. Wouldn't that apply to someone who's more accomplished?

 

It's like when Probst kept comparing Malcolm and Cochran last year to talk about how awesome Malcolm is and how he's everything Cochran is not. I like Malcolm, but outside the game he's a bartender. There's nothing wrong with that, but at the time Cochran was going to Harvard for law school. This show's (or should I say Jeff's) perspective on success is warped.

[Mrs. P.]

What I find weird is that she always used to act like she was too cool for Survivor. She said she didn't watch any of the seasons she wasn't on and that she didn't go to any of the events or hang out with any of the former players. Yet she'll accept any job that's Survivor related. Maybe it's time for a real career. This is also one of the reasons why I never understand why Survivor lionizes certain people about how awesome they are. If people are talking within the game, I get it, but people will say that about her more generally. Wouldn't that apply to someone who's more accomplished?

It's like when Probst kept comparing Malcolm and Cochran last year to talk about how awesome Malcolm is and how he's everything Cochran is not. I like Malcolm, but outside the game he's a bartender. There's nothing wrong with that, but at the time Cochran was going to Harvard for law school. This show's (or should I say Jeff's) perspective on success is warped.

IIRC, Malcolm is a graduate of some Ivy League school.

[Miss Scarlet]

IIRC, Malcolm is a graduate of some Ivy League school.

 

That's true, I had forgotten about that. I still think though the way Jeff discusses these players is completely one dimensional and not completely relevant in real life. The edits are usually one dimensional, but Jeff gets to know the players a bit, so it's disappointing he still addresses things in this way. 

 

Was anyone else surprised they aired Kass's discussion with her husband about gender stereotypes on Survivor? I was surprised because I figured this was something they have been trying not to acknowledge.

Edited May 24, 2014 by wudpixie

[Kromm]

What I find weird is that she always used to act like she was too cool for Survivor. She said she didn't watch any of the seasons she wasn't on and that she didn't go to any of the events or hang out with any of the former players. Yet she'll accept any job that's Survivor related. Maybe it's time for a real career. This is also one of the reasons why I never understand why Survivor lionizes certain people about how awesome they are. If people are talking within the game, I get it, but people will say that about her more generally. Wouldn't that apply to someone who's more accomplished?

 

It's like when Probst kept comparing Malcolm and Cochran last year to talk about how awesome Malcolm is and how he's everything Cochran is not. I like Malcolm, but outside the game he's a bartender. There's nothing wrong with that, but at the time Cochran was going to Harvard for law school. This show's (or should I say Jeff's) perspective on success is warped.

Yeah, the fact that he's never said like a single nice thing about Kim Spradlin, who was one of the most dominating players in the game's history but who apparently didn't kowtow to Probst enough, or something like that, shows how messed up he is.

[Tristan Tzara]

 

 

On the subject of Woo's supposed honor, which he himself introduced at the Final Tribal, I haven't seen anyone call him out on the very dishonorable act of looking into Kass's face and promising to take her to Final Two, then shamelessly breaking his word.   He went from "I will take you" to "I will certainly consider taking you" to writing her name down.

Also, what kind of "honorable" man steals a clue from the pants of another player, then runs away with it like a common street thief?

Woo's a legend in his own mind.

Excellent points. In fact, Woo's adventure with Spencer's clue was the point I stopped liking him. 

 

In the red carpet interview, Parvati asked Woo if he had read the rule book and he stopped, thought about it, and said, "Maybe I should have." That made me cringe. He has said he had a "plan," but it appeared to me that he winged it, which I can't respect.

 

It's supremely ironic that the jury was furious and judgmental about Tony's betrayals, lies, back stabs -- did they critique him about anything else? -- yet, they *didn't* vote for the person who did little of that.

[EC Amber]

It's supremely ironic that the jury was furious and judgmental about Tony's betrayals, lies, back stabs -- did they critique him about anything else? -- yet, they *didn't* vote for the person who did little of that.

 

It seems *most* contestants prefer to reward big splashy behavior so long as it results in *something* happening, without regard to the intent or effectiveness of what that move actually was. If you flail around in the water, but don't actually swim that is going to be more noticeable than just treading water. In either case you aren't going to actually go very far, but your getting the attention. Even if you lied the whole time and can swim just fine. 

Makes me wonder, if it had come down to Woo and Kass, I suspect that Woo would have won, but Kass would have gotten more than one vote. 

[Kazootie]

up front apology to this being  repost from another site-- but I've not seen anyone here say quite this:

 

I have watched in ever increasing dismay and some occasional outrage as Jeff has increasingly 'played the game" himself in tribal councils.  He outs and/or codifies strategy not necessarily known by all.  He manufactures consent and shapes opinion with his positing, probing and insider knowledge.  His line crossing has become more frequent and more egregious.
This last example of not announcing the expiration date on an idol for the first time was way over-the-top.  He became full fledged "player" by changing rules in midstream!  Spencer, ardent student of the game was shocked at the 'new rules" of not announcing 'last idol play" as has been done consistently since the 1st idol i believe .

 ....Damnit Janet! I've never criticized Probst that heavily in the past and I think the alpha male thing gets a bit more than it's due-- but this stinks. course he is just a part of TPTB-- and ultimately he dances to their tune.

Oh, and my cocktail-hour analysis of Woo's reason?
= Woo was overwhelmed and afraid to confront a real tribal council-- so he retreated --- nobly as he could, to his memorized comfort zone of "code to live by."honor...etc'".  This was the best decision Woo could make (most likely)- given his capacity.  He seems fine and calm with it.  It is a solid place for him to live.   Those who might chastise him are putting their overlay--ie:  they are projecting their value system and their capacities and their taste/flavor of conflict onto Woo's situation.

[kikaha]

 

Kim Spradlin is probably the recent example in the past few years of a winner who successfully played a kind of overall "honor" game and too it all the way (only double crossing like one or two people directly--a microscopic number in this game)

 

I completely disagree.  Kim could and did lie with the best of them.  Sabrina made a wondering comment about this, how Kim lied to your face, you know she lied, but it somehow didn't matter. 

 

Kim also backstabbed her way to victory.  Right after merge she had to get numbers, by taking out the men.  She convinced three guys in a row they were on her team -- even as she conspired to vote them out.  This was probably the single most important strategic key to her victory. 

 

I think Kim played great.  I would love to see her play again, in an all-stars season.  (Though she along with all the women were incredibly lucky to still be in the game at merge.)  I just don't think she played an honorable game. 

[Hanahope]

I saw this as a "they vote for the person they hate least in the end" season (which I hate) and assumed that Woo could beat any of them at that game.

 

I still think that is the case.  That is why Tony won and Russell didn't (twice).  Russell did many of the same things Tony did (lie, backstab), but, at least based on what we were shown, Russell was mean about it, whereas Tony wasn't shown as being mean.  If Woo went up against Russell, Woo would have won because people did not want to give money to Russell.  They didn't mind giving it to Tony.

[ProfCrash]

Russell was openly vile. We saw that in his season, re-reading JT's note was no way to win over jury members. They know that they made a bad move and screwed their own position in the game. There is no reason to read the note with them around. We saw it happen a few times, interviews indicate that the note reading happened on many more occassions. We did not see Russell continually mocking peoples games and making fun of folks at camp and tribal but we have heard about it through interviews. We did see Russell burn socks, which seems like nothing to us but when you only have two pair is kind of a big deal. We saw him hide tools around camp. We saw his behavior. Worse, we only saw the tip of the iceburg.

 

It makes for great TV but really pissed off jurors. Yes, he hustled to find idols and the like but dude was continually starting fires and pissing people off. You cannot do that and win. Ozzy had a better social and challenge game then Russell and wasn't able to win partly because his social game was not that great. Ozzy who people mostly liked, provided food, and won challenges lost on the social side. What chance do Russell, Philip or Kass have?

 

Tony was shown having conversations with people about being a cop and other things. There seemed to be a mutual respect between Tony and others. He flat out said that he didn't lie to Spencer because he knew he could use Spencer and there was no point in lying to him. Spencer knew where he was in the pecking order. Tony listened to Spencer and sometimes worked with him but he never lied to him. He knew it was pointless and bad game play. He never rubbed it in Spencer, Jeremiah, or Tasha's face that they were on the bottom. Russell would have been gloating, pounding his chest and being a massive asshole to the minority alliance.

 

That is a huge, huge difference.

 

I hope that one day Kass understands why she was in a bad place in her game because I think it would help her in her realy life. I don't think she was Russell level of awful but she was intentionally instagating crap. There was some gloating, Spencer misplaying the idol and after the flip come to mind. But she doesn't own it the way Russell did. It is kind of weird.