Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[DeeDee79]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I dunno. Dean hung out in the cowboy outfit longer than necessary in Tombstone and back in Frontierland. 

Yes, that's true! And he was very pleased with the outfit that Ezra fitted him for in Time After Time. Thanks for the reminders @catrox14 :)

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Yes, that's true! And he was very pleased with the outfit that Ezra fitted him for in Time After Time. Thanks for the reminders @catrox14 :)

OHHHH yes. I forgot about the outfit in Time after Time.

And back in s9 he was wearing those really fashionable fed threads. 

[DeeDee79]

*Moved reply to Eye Candy thread to be safe*

Edited May 30, 2018 by DeeDee79

[BlueSapphire]

After barely watching the last few seasons, I thank God for Eric Kripke and the early years, otherwise l would never have become a fan of this show.  I also miss the LiveJournal years of the fandom.

[gonzosgirrl]

21 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

But this is what they do.  They give you what you want, Michael (at least some people wanted that), but not in the way you expected it, by having it be AU Michael.  They're just oh so clever. 

They gave me what I wanted, in the least possible satisfying way. They rushed Dean into a yes for a questionable reason. Yes, *I* can reason it was about more than just saving Sam, but  they left it equivocal and wide open for Dean-hating speculation. Then they took what should've been a shining moment for Jensen and made a mockery of it with that midair fight. (Winchester Family Business is having a field day meme-ing the stills. Funny I don't see any mocking of Mark P, only Jensen). And they couldn't even give Dean the victory, letting Lucifer kick his ass before Sam saves the day and Michael takes off with his body. And then they capped it off with the cheesy freeze frame.

So Yeah, the phrase 'be careful what you wish for' has never been so true. Hopefully Dabb doesn't do Dean (or me) so many favours next season. 

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

(Winchester Family Business is having a field day meme-ing the stills. Funny I don't see any mocking of Mark P, only Jensen).

Because they are not Dean friendly. It took a  while to figure out their bias but it's there.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Because they are not Dean friendly. It took a  while to figure out their bias but it's there.

It didn't take me any time at all ;)

[DeeDee79]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Because they are not Dean friendly. It took a  while to figure out their bias but it's there.

The site is called Winchester Family Business and they're not Dean friendly? In that case they should advertise their site as Sam-centric or Sam-leaning. I hate clicking on a site that on its face seems to be a bibro site only to see catty posts about Dean when I decide to check it out.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They gave me what I wanted, in the least possible satisfying way. They rushed Dean into a yes for a questionable reason. Yes, *I* can reason it was about more than just saving Sam, but  they left it equivocal and wide open for Dean-hating speculation. Then they took what should've been a shining moment for Jensen and made a mockery of it with that midair fight. (Winchester Family Business is having a field day meme-ing the stills. Funny I don't see any mocking of Mark P, only Jensen). And they couldn't even give Dean the victory, letting Lucifer kick his ass before Sam saves the day and Michael takes off with his body. And then they capped it off with the cheesy freeze frame.

So Yeah, the phrase 'be careful what you wish for' has never been so true. Hopefully Dabb doesn't do Dean (or me) so many favours next season. 

I don't think it was their intention to have you be dissatisfied.  And the "mockery" of the midair flight is an execution issue -- not a preplanned "let's have really bad stuntwork".  Note: I don't think it was horrible, I think if they removed the moment when Dean was flung away and came back, the fight scene would have looked better.  Freeze frame also didn't bother me too much.  

[trxr4kids]

3 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

The site is called Winchester Family Business and they're not Dean friendly? In that case they should advertise their site as Sam-centric or Sam-leaning. I hate clicking on a site that on its face seems to be a bibro site only to see catty posts about Dean when I decide to check it out.

I've only read a few things from their site so I can't claim to be well informed but the few things I read made me steer clear as a Dean fan.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 hours ago, SueB said:

I don't think it was their intention to have you be dissatisfied.  And the "mockery" of the midair flight is an execution issue -- not a preplanned "let's have really bad stuntwork".  Note: I don't think it was horrible, I think if they removed the moment when Dean was flung away and came back, the fight scene would have looked better.  Freeze frame also didn't bother me too much.  

That the edited version of that fight made it past the showrunners and executive producers, out of the editing room and onto the airwaves tells me all I need to know about their intentions. YMMV and clearly does, but that's how I feel about it.

And for what its worth, 'it wasn't horrible' and 'if only they'd cut that out', and 'it doesn't bother me too much' are not the feelings I want to have about my favourite show and character at the end of a season finale.

Edited June 8, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Pondlass1]

I don't know why they did the high wire fight?  A ground fight, similar to the one in Cain's cabin would have been perfect.  Both Jensen and Mark have the coordination, dexterity and quick reflexes to make it real and dramatic.

I think it was 2 days of physical discomfort for the guys and to have it not turn out well is a shame.

[Pondlass1]

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Because they are not Dean friendly.

We knew this at the old IMDb board and Dean fans were warned to stay away or be gritting teeth while reading articles.  It's a Sam-centric site for sure.  Sam can do no wrong. 

Some of the other Supernatural sites view the whole show through rosy glasses.  I don't bother with them much either.

I realise we're a bit too critical here sometimes, but at least we're passionate.

[devlin]

For what it’s worth I appreciate that these guys tried something new with the fight scene between 2 powerful archangels. It didn’t really work but I am not going to mock them  for making the effort. As far as I’m concerned if a person makes fun of them it says more about that person than the guys who are willing to put themselves out there and try something different 

[Res]

I just wish Wayward would have been picked up so that we could get rid of Dabb. Anything to get rid of Dabb. AND Singer, ESPECIALLY SINGER!!

[trxr4kids]

1 minute ago, Res said:

AND Singer, ESPECIALLY SINGER!!

Sadly I doubt he's going anywhere and we probably would've just ended up with Buck/Lemming as show runners post Dabb. If that does happen btw, I'm pretty sure I'd quit the show after breaking things and screaming, why Guck?! why?! repeatedly.

[Bobcatkitten]

I think the wires could have been used well in the fight scene well - just using them to show them fly back after a punch or hit, twirl, roll etc.  But the midair fight was stupid and looked stupid. And the freeze frame was very college film school. Do the flare of the blue eyes, fine, but don't freeze frame it. Just have Jensen pan around, turn blue, then back to normal and keep panning.

[FlickChick]

Re: the freeze frame. We also have to remember that in "The French Mistake" it clearly was considered a last resort and the word used to describe it was "serviceable". So, I, as a viewer see it now and consider the "freeze frame" of Dean!Michael's eyes as a disservice to the character. JMO

[DeeDee79]

8 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

A ground fight, similar to the one in Cain's cabin would have been perfect. 

One of my favorite Dean fight scenes!

[SueB]

21 hours ago, devlin said:

For what it’s worth I appreciate that these guys tried something new with the fight scene between 2 powerful archangels. It didn’t really work but I am not going to mock them  for making the effort. As far as I’m concerned if a person makes fun of them it says more about that person than the guys who are willing to put themselves out there and try something different 

Well stated.  

[ILoveReading]

Unpopular opinion.  This is why I feel the writers are lazy.  Even the actors are noticing.  This is in response to someone asking how Chuck bought Cas back from the Empty if he has no power over it. 

To bad the writers couldnt' make this kind of effort.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Unpopular opinion.  This is why I feel the writers are lazy.  Even the actors are noticing.  This is in response to someone asking how Chuck bought Cas back from the Empty if he has no power over it. 

To bad the writers couldnt' make this kind of effort.

Okay if they don't keep Christian around after that effort. That awesome.

[Pondlass1]

I don't know why Christian didn't feature more in season 13?  I like him.  Easy on the eye and has acting charisma.  I think someone said he had another gig.

Even when Dean is ejected, I hope Michael sticks around for 14.  He's a thousand times more interesting than Lucifer... and Jack 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Pondlass1

[SueB]

21 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I don't know why Christian didn't feature more in season 13?  I like him.  Easy on the eye and has acting charisma.  I think someone said he had another gig.

Even when Dean is ejected, I hope Michael sticks around for 14.  He's a thousand times more interesting than Lucifer... and Jack 

He has another show he works on.  Which makes him "in demand".  Could raise the price, could be more difficult to get his time.  But I like the guy and would like to see more.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I think the wires could have been used well in the fight scene well - just using them to show them fly back after a punch or hit, twirl, roll etc.  But the midair fight was stupid and looked stupid. And the freeze frame was very college film school. Do the flare of the blue eyes, fine, but don't freeze frame it. Just have Jensen pan around, turn blue, then back to normal and keep panning.

I think the mid-air wirefight was ill-advised. Singer should have noticed that pretty quick after they started so there still would have been time to course-correct. And at least it should have been saved somewhat in editing. 

Really can`t give them (that is not the actors or stunt people who are hardly to blame for the mess) much excuses. Prior to another of my show`s Season Finales this year, I read what they did for their end fight and it sounded so silly and kind of cringeworthy. A giant blue doll fighting a bad CGI-creature? I watched it and that was fight was cute, funny and legit bad-ass. All my worries were dispelled upon seeing it. 

The wire-thing, I already tensed up at in the promo. A ground fight would have been lots better. Even a fight with multi-coloured CGI-balls could have had something. 

The freeze-frame was just purely editorial choice and a bad one. No, it`s not the end of the world but that is something an editor can try, look at a few times and then go "yikes, better not". That is what editing is for. Noone needs to see your bad attempts, noone needs to know your missteps. It`s just you and a couple computers.

[sarthaz]

20 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the mid-air wirefight was ill-advised. Singer should have noticed that pretty quick after they started so there still would have been time to course-correct. And at least it should have been saved somewhat in editing. 

Really can`t give them (that is not the actors or stunt people who are hardly to blame for the mess) much excuses. Prior to another of my show`s Season Finales this year, I read what they did for their end fight and it sounded so silly and kind of cringeworthy. A giant blue doll fighting a bad CGI-creature? I watched it and that was fight was cute, funny and legit bad-ass. All my worries were dispelled upon seeing it. 

The wire-thing, I already tensed up at in the promo. A ground fight would have been lots better. Even a fight with multi-coloured CGI-balls could have had something. 

The freeze-frame was just purely editorial choice and a bad one. No, it`s not the end of the world but that is something an editor can try, look at a few times and then go "yikes, better not". That is what editing is for. Noone needs to see your bad attempts, noone needs to know your missteps. It`s just you and a couple computers.

All of this. I don't mind them trying it, but it shows a total lack of vision and competency that they didn't figure it out early on and change course. And that they didn't care enough to put in the extra oversight. Dean says "yes" to Michael and kills Lucifer?! I know it's Season 13, but that's quite possibly the biggest moment of the entire series, right up there with wasting Azazel. And they give us that? Like @Aeryn13 says, it's not the end of the world. But when you combine it with the hokey freeze-frame -- that was literally mocked on this very show -- it makes me feel as though the show runners are incompetent or don't care or both.

[gonzosgirrl]

I can't even say how bitter I am towards Dabb and Singer that this scene made it to air. Jensen and Dean deserved so much better.

[catrox14]

Oh, man.  For Jensen to say he wasn't "overly pleased" to fans is rather remarkable.  That's pretty much him saying he really disliked it.  If Phil Sgriccia, Thomas Wright, John Badham or John Showalter had been directing I think the camera work would have been a lot better.  The fights in their episodes always look good IMO.  Because it's not just the stunt work that matters but the camera angles can make all the difference.  IMO Singer doesn't have the best shots set up to begin with the editing will be that much more difficult to make it look decent. 

[sarthaz]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh, man.  For Jensen to say he wasn't "overly pleased" to fans is rather remarkable.  That's pretty much him saying he really disliked it.  If Phil Sgriccia, Thomas Wright, John Badham or John Showalter had been directing I think the camera work would have been a lot better.  The fights in their episodes always look good IMO.  Because it's not just the stunt work that matters but the camera angles can make all the difference.  IMO Singer doesn't have the best shots set up to begin with the editing will be that much more difficult to make it look decent. 

Ouch! That's damning. Those guys have diplomatically defended a lot of shit, because they're such classy professionals. "Wasn't overly pleased" is Jensen code for "It fucking sucked".

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

- that was literally mocked on this very show -- it makes me feel as though the show runners are incompetent or don't care or both.

IMO, whoever thought of this wire fight bit off way more than this show is capable of chewing.  Did Singer think it was funny to have the freeze frame end it?  I really want some names named.  Who had the power to push this wire fight? Misha say producers were saying it was unfilmable?  Which producers?   I wonder how much money they spent on the wire works themselves.  I was also really pissed about the music they used for showing Michael!Dean's wings.  It was so OTT cheesy.The music during the fight was okay.  I mean why not hit some other music cue?  The scoring for this show had gone down hill, which is almost the saddest thing under Dabb.  That music when they were taking the AU people to and through the rift in Exodus was laughably ill suited for this show.  

3 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

"Wasn't overly pleased" is Jensen code for "It fucking sucked".

Yep.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I can't even say how bitter I am towards Dabb and Singer that this scene made it to air. Jensen and Dean deserved so much better.

Jensen saying there was a LOT more to use means they filmed a lot more, which means more work in those uncomfortable harnesses that didn`t pay off at all. It might also means the fight itself wasn`t necessarily so incredibly one-sided as it looked onscreen if they cut out basically 2/3 of it. All-around fiasco. 

And Jensen is someone who puts a lot of work into fight/stunt scenes and takes pride in them so this must have been a bitter pill to swallow. 

Singer is stuck too much in the 80s with his directorial style. Times have passed him by and he didn`t notice.

[gonzosgirrl]

28 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Jensen saying there was a LOT more to use means they filmed a lot more, which means more work in those uncomfortable harnesses that didn`t pay off at all. It might also means the fight itself wasn`t necessarily so incredibly one-sided as it looked onscreen if they cut out basically 2/3 of it. All-around fiasco. 

And Jensen is someone who puts a lot of work into fight/stunt scenes and takes pride in them so this must have been a bitter pill to swallow. 

 

After a while it becomes hard not to think it's personal. This should've been a shining moment for Dean and for Jensen, who was clearly pumped about the story when those first bootleg photos of Michael!Dean appeared. Killing* Lucifer, as @sarthaz said, is a watershed moment in the show, a scene we want to watch over and over again. I personally won't ever watch it again and for that, I loathe Dabb & Singer (Dabber? Yeah, that's what I'm calling them from now until they are no longer co-showrunners) more than I can say. For taking that moment away from Dean and Jensen, I wish they'd both get fired.

 

*Presuming, even thought it's stupid of me, that Lucifer is actually dead.

Edited June 11, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

28 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

*Presuming, even thought it's stupid of me, that Lucifer is actually dead

I'm putting my money on him not being dead, which leaves the final real true kill for someone else. 

Re the cheesy freeze frame, I think Singer was trying to replicate in some way, Dean's eyes being revealed as black. But it doesn't work here because we already heard Dean say he was going to say yes. We saw him fight with Michael in him, and we saw Michael takeover and heard the wing flutters as he absconded with Dean.  I mean even the newbie viewers who might not understand the entire Dean/Michael dynamic, would have understood that Michael took off with Dean.  What should have happened was a quick flicker of the blue eyes as Michael!Dean was walking amongst that crowd.  It was just STOOPID, IMO.

[sarthaz]

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm putting my money on him not being dead, which leaves the final real true kill for someone else. 

Re the cheesy freeze frame, I think Singer was trying to replicate in some way, Dean's eyes being revealed as black. But it doesn't work here because we already heard Dean say he was going to say yes. We saw him fight with Michael in him, and we saw Michael takeover and heard the wing flutters as he absconded with Dean.  I mean even the newbie viewers who might not understand the entire Dean/Michael dynamic, would have understood that Michael took off with Dean.  What should have happened was a quick flicker of the blue eyes as Michael!Dean was walking amongst that crowd.  It was just STOOPID, IMO.

Yep. And I maintain you don't even need the eyes. It's fine: flicker the eyes and go on hiatus. But you can have Dean march down the street in his dapper digs, and it still works. We know he's Michael. We know shit's coming. Just have him saunter towards the camera menacingly. Or confidently. Have him stop and look into the camera. Or look past the camera. Or look towards the sky. Don't even have him walking. Just cut to his face. Literally, do any fucking thing other than what they did: a freeze frame and artificial zoom. W! T! F!

[FlickChick]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

 I was also really pissed about the music they used for showing Michael!Dean's wings.  It was so OTT cheesy.The music during the fight was okay.  I mean why not hit some other music cue?  The scoring for this show had gone down hill, which is almost the saddest thing under Dabb.  That music when they were taking the AU people to and through the rift in Exodus was laughably ill suited for this show. 

You are hitting on something that has bothered the hell out of me. The music is so atrocious (IMO) that I find it annoying and also making the dialog more difficult to understand. When I watch the earlier episodes, there are quiet scenes - no music, or perhaps just the slightest hint of a theme in the background. NO MORE! It competes for your attention and not in a positive way. No classic rock - just poorly scored scene after scene. I really want to know who is responsible for this is it Dabb or is it Singer? Because I'm of the opinion that Carver probably could hold his own in a disagreement over style/music, etc., but I don't think Dabb can.

[devlin]

My UO that is bound to be hugely unpopular is that I hope that when supernatural ends is that Jensen will stop doing the conventions. I hope that he will be too busy shooting other shows and spending time with his family

[DeeDee79]

36 minutes ago, devlin said:

My UO that is bound to be hugely unpopular is that I hope that when supernatural ends is that Jensen will stop doing the conventions. I hope that he will be too busy shooting other shows and spending time with his family

I don't agree or disagree since I don't watch or attend the conventions but I'm curious as to why you feel this way. 

[devlin]

4 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I don't agree or disagree since I don't watch or attend the conventions but I'm curious as to why you feel this way. 

I personally can’t understand the obsession with celebrities or the double standards this so called family has in regards to the actors or why someone thought it was appropriate to ask Jensen what he thought about his wife having sex with mp and what he would do if they had a kid. I don’t need to know about their personal life to enjoy their acting, in fact I feel jp’s behaviour has heightened my dislike for sam and it really shouldn’t have anything to do with how I see a character

[BlueSapphire]

All the actors have been exposed to inappropriate questions and actions during cons.  And certain fans of all the actors have done things, and that includes Jensen and Dean fans, but I think there are some that are reluctant to admit it.

[DeeDee79]

I don't think that anyone said that the other actors haven't been exposed to inappropriate questions; it seems to me that @devlin was using the question directed to Jensen as an example. Also when certain fans not fond of Jensen refer to him as a homophobe or "dudebro" as I've read more than once online it's not shocking if his fans get a little testy.

[Pondlass1]

It's probably an UO but I find the convention panels entertaining.  I don't think they're bothered much by inappropriate questions.  There's always going to be someone asking something stupid. It's a fact of life for entertainers.  Both Js are fun to watch and come up with different ways to answer the same questions.  Jensen was shy and reserved at first but he's kind of evolved into the ringmaster. 

Misha and Jensen panels are comedy gold. They read each other like a book.

It's an insight into the actors.  Who'd have thought sunny gregarious Jared suffered from anxiety?  Who'd have thought Jensen could sing like he does.

UO - I hope they continue after the show ends.  (I only watch J2 and Misha panels BTW).

[BlueSapphire]

I'm fine with the conventions continuing, but I wouldn't be surprised if the actors limit the number they go to.

[sarthaz]

The market may slow when the show ends, but it's pretty easy money. With flights, it's probably about 2 days of work, and they must clear close to 6 figures. Filming a TV series in Vancouver is killer on the family lifestyle, but these weekends are cake in comparison. If I were them, I'd do it every chance I could until it dries up.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

The market may slow when the show ends, but it's pretty easy money. With flights, it's probably about 2 days of work, and they must clear close to 6 figures. Filming a TV series in Vancouver is killer on the family lifestyle, but these weekends are cake in comparison. If I were them, I'd do it every chance I could until it dries up.

Yep and when you consider the attention shown those who either haven't been on the show in years, or had a one/two off appearance at all, and the multiple cons fueled by shows that have been off the air for ages, I don't see the market for J2M drying up any time soon.

[trxr4kids]

On 6/12/2018 at 11:32 PM, devlin said:

I personally can’t understand the obsession with celebrities

Me neither.

On 6/12/2018 at 11:32 PM, devlin said:

I don’t need to know about their personal life to enjoy their acting, in fact I feel jp’s behaviour has heightened my dislike for sam and it really shouldn’t have anything to do with how I see a character

I would prefer that all questions at cons be about the show or acting/directing/technical aspects in general because I honestly don't care what they do in their personal lives unless they're kicking puppies and drowning kittens. Even then I'd probably rather not know because it would cloud my view of the characters they play. 

That said, if the actors involved choose to appear at cons I can't blame them because it's a paid appearance and they have families to support after all. Hopefully inappropriate questions/fanitude popping up sporadically won't dissuade them from what is essentially (IMO) easy money at this point and probably going into the future.

I know some of us like to pretend that they continue on with the show and cons because it's all kittens and rainbows and sunshine but there's absolutely no way in hell IMO that they would do this without a paycheck, which is as it should be. They're not doing volunteer work FFS, they have to survive.

[MysteryGuest]

Yeah, I don't see them stopping the cons, unless the market just dries up.  It's a lucrative gig for them.  I don't mind the random questions asking about something fun their kids might have done, but the very personal questions annoy me.  I don't understand the mentality of people who would pay big money to go to these cons, just so they can put the actor on the spot with a really awkward question that should never be asked.  

I think because of the Destiel fans, the Cockles fans and the Tin Hatters, Jensen does seem to get more of the awkward sexual questions.  The boy has to be exhausted leading that triple life... having a wife and 3 kids, carrying on a full-time secret relationship with Jared, while also hooking up with Misha whenever possible...hell, I'd be a bit cranky in my responses, too!

[devlin]

33 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think because of the Destiel fans, the Cockles fans and the Tin Hatters, Jensen does seem to get more of the awkward sexual questions.  The boy has to be exhausted leading that triple life... having a wife and 3 kids, carrying on a full-time secret relationship with Jared, while also hooking up with Misha whenever possible...hell, I'd be a bit cranky in my responses, too!

?Thank you. I needed a good laugh 

[catrox14]

46 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Yeah, I don't see them stopping the cons, unless the market just dries up.  It's a lucrative gig for them.  I don't mind the random questions asking about something fun their kids might have done, but the very personal questions annoy me.  I don't understand the mentality of people who would pay big money to go to these cons, just so they can put the actor on the spot with a really awkward question that should never be asked.  

I think because of the Destiel fans, the Cockles fans and the Tin Hatters, Jensen does seem to get more of the awkward sexual questions.  The boy has to be exhausted leading that triple life... having a wife and 3 kids, carrying on a full-time secret relationship with Jared, while also hooking up with Misha whenever possible...hell, I'd be a bit cranky in my responses, too!

I don't know how he has time to work at all with that schedule. The recovery time from all the sexy times with everyone alone would cut into it. LOL

[sarthaz]

18 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

Me neither.

I would prefer that all questions at cons be about the show or acting/directing/technical aspects in general because I honestly don't care what they do in their personal lives unless they're kicking puppies and drowning kittens. Even then I'd probably rather not know because it would cloud my view of the characters they play. 

I enjoy the stray story about how one of their kids did something adorable, probably more so from Misha because he's such a big personality independent of Supernatural. My exposure to him is as much from GISH as it is the show, and he's actively presenting his family to us as he tries to make the world a better place, so I'm a little more interested in his personal stories. But the rest of them, I'm with you -- I'm sure they're all fine people, but I'm mostly interested in the mechanics of the show and their performances.

Conventions are, in general, a beautiful thing -- a place where people can gather to share common enthusiasm and feel less alone in this world. However, there's also an unhinged element of people who have no grasp on reality, who think that paying $1000 to get autographs now means they have a personal relationship with an actor, who ship so heavily that they ask the most dumbass and offensive questions. I often wonder about these individuals -- do they go home and cry for a week because they made a fool of themselves by being a jerk to their favorite obsession? Or is their grasp on reality so lacking that they pat themselves on the back and prepare to do it again? I honestly don't know.

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm not sure if this actually belongs in Unpopular Opinions or Super Positive, lol. But my maybe-unpopular opinion is that despite everything, I do love the show. Don't get me wrong, I loathe the bad writing and shitty characterizations and extraneous, gratuitous, self-indulgent Mary/GarySue characters. I will never stop letting them know it, either. But I love the Winchesters and their story. I bitch about and/criticize Sam's behavior, love and despair for Dean and want to strangle Mary with my bare hands. When it's because they have written something wildly uncharacteristic, it makes me angry. But when they get it right, they make me feel, really, emotionally feel for them. Dean always, Sam & Cas occasionally, even Mary (because yes, hate is an emotion, too). I guess that's what makes me so frustrated with the current state of affairs - I know it could be so much more. They have the characters and the actors to do it, and they are wasting them.