Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[trxr4kids]

 

In the original version he would have used his dark powerzzzz to do it.

I didn't know that. It makes sense in the whole Sam as a hero and Dean as a loser scheme of things. It makes me wonder how they got so far off the rails of their original premise.

 

 

ETA

 

Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but just because it was written in fan fiction, doesn't mean it was written well. ;-)

I agree all fanfic isn't good but seriously at least 1/8 is better than the crap we've seen lately..mmv

Edited June 4, 2014 by trxr4kids

[AwesomO4000]

I meant a brotherly scene that didn`t make me go "I hate your relationship and you are THE worst people ever to be around each other". They used to have those. Yet I can`t recall even one in the last few years. I mean, there were ones I outright hated like in Fallen Crapols, Point of No Return, Suck Song or the Season 8 Finale. Vile all around. But more than that, they didn`t have a single moment where I enjoyed them as brothers like in Seasons 1 and 2.

 

I'm taking this to the general thread, so as not to go too off topic. I came up with about 8 or 9 altogether for me - though 2 of the big ones came from season 3, so maybe that doesn't really count as the last few years. Most of the others were from season  6 and 7 though I think, so they might qualify as later years. I skipped the smaller ones in season 5, because there was a lot of miscommunication in that season, so they weren't coming from a solid foundation, but I did find one example from that season that qualified for me.

 

I've never fully believed Sam when he said things like that.  It always seemed to me to have a touch of... not sour grapes, exactly,  but that feeling where you know you can't have something so you tell yourself it wouldn't have worked anyway, but you never quite believe yourself.

 

Hmm. I'll have to consider this. They didn't seem to play it that way in that episode. Sam seemed entirely sure when he scoffed that he'd lied to the kid to make him feel better and that they hadn't missed anything. And he seemed surprised when Dean said that maybe they just didn't know what they were missing (which is what I think lead to Sam having Dean make the Lisa promise - because Sam remembered that conversation and Dean's reaction to Sam's dismissal of the apple-pie family life.)

 

I would go a little further and say I don't think that either Sam or Dean really know what an "apple-pie life" is--it's more of a fantasy or illusion.

 

I agree with this. I was actually expecting Amelia to turn out to be some sort of delusion or distortion of reality and for Sam to realize this - again (I thought he did realize it already in "Swap Meat") - and for them to finally have Sam get that the "normal" apple pie life he'd thought he wanted didn't really exist once and for all (again), but nope, the Amelia story was real and straightforward and so became a whole lot more boring and unnecessary for me. That may be more of a popular opinion though, than an unpopular one, though potentially liking that storyline if it had been some sort of delusion or distortion - and I would have - maybe isn't a popular opinion.

 

Edited to add:

I would have hated Sam Sue-saving Dean from hell with the power of a million suns.

 

Dean could've still gone to hell, but for me at least Sam could've gone dark because he was still trying to save Dean, maybe? Rather than just for revenege? Or helped get Dean get out of hell later somehow? (Like his prayers called an angel - since I'm sure he was praying at some point.) Or even keeping it the same way as it happened, Sam might've gotten at least a little heroic arc if maybe he'd at least been trying to save Dean from purgatory? Or save Kevin from Crowley?

 

I'm not sure why Sam having a part in saving Dean from hell would be so awful when that's similar to what Dean did, and for Dean it was just expected. I guess my Unpopular Opinion on that is that Dean making the original deal was in a way a crappy thing to do to Sam, and the show didn't really acknowledge that as much as I thought that it should have. Well maybe I changed my mind - I guess I wouldn't have wanted Sam to  go dark saving Dean. But the purgatory thing I mentioned or Kevin - I would have wanted that, but Sam's not really been allowed to save Dean on this show in any major way since maybe season 1 or have any major role in saving anything since season 5 for some reason.

Edited June 4, 2014 by AwesomO4000

[Aeryn13]

 

(Like his prayers called an angel - since I'm sure he was praying at some point.)

 

I wouldn`t have minded that or anything in that vein. My problem wouldn`t have been if he had been involved or did his part - as long as Dean kept being a direct part of the arc. But what they meant to do was IMO have Sam pull a Sue-save. Just like in the Season 5 Finale. And I don`t even know who they modeled that after because even Luke freaking Skywalker did very much not get a Sue-save in Jedi. He got a heroic moment, something in between nothing (Dean) and absolutely everything (Sam). 

[ElleryAnne]

I guess my Unpopular Opinion on that is that Dean making the original deal was in a way a crappy thing to do to Sam, and the show didn't really acknowledge that as much as I thought that it should have.

 

 

I agree.  This is one of the rare times I wish the show had given us a bit more angst, but in the form of Sam struggling with what Dean did to save him. 

 

UO - I don't like the idea of either of the boys going dark, ever. 

[mstaken]

It was easier to like Dean, particularly when he was still "the fun, tough and brave one" whose one flaw was that he just didn't have the ego to know how gosh darn special he was

 

 

Heh. This is what made me start to think of Dean as more the Mary Sue character than Sam, especially once the writers started taking away some of his smaller "flaws" that we saw in the early seasons

 

 

 

Exactly! That's not to say I don't like Dean, because I do. But I feel like JP/Sam got shafted to an extent---the joyless, dour, personality-free guy who we learn from the outset has "abandoned" his beloved brother and is always pouting and snapping and killjoy-ing and, like, sleeping with demons and getting addicted to their blood. You know, the usual ;) Dean, meanwhile, is charming, funny, courageous, a hit with the ladies and with small children, singled out as a favorite by Castiel, Bobby and even Jo, tough but vulnerable, the loyal and protective one and a manly man who's always ready with a brave deed and witty one-liner. He's practically perfect, other than the allegedly 'low self-esteem' (which, IMUO, serves to woobify him more than presenting as a legitimate flaw) and the excessive boozing (which, on this show, has usually been presented as gritty and macho and all that anyway rather than problematic, much to my personal annoyance!) As rambled about above, Dean is practically a walking checklist of all that an ultra-cool hero should be. Sam, meanwhile, has pretty much always ranged from being dull and undefined to outright unlikable. As a somewhat uptight, emotional, academically inclined introvert, I want to love or at least relate to Sam, but the writers and actor make that so much harder than it should be! 

 

I've realized from reading the phenomenally insightful and amusing posts in this thread that I agree with those who hold the UO that this show was never consistently or particularly good. I love the first few seasons despite their flaws, but those flaws were very much in evidence, IM(U)O. They always had issues balancing joy and humor with the mawkishness and WEGETITMAKEITSTOP angst, they always resorted to annoyingly repetitive, awkwardly scripted and embarrassingly unsubtle "chick flick-y" talks between the brothers, they always (as others have pointed out) found it annoyingly difficult to write likable, relatable female characters, etc. Going so self-consciously dark and quasi-"epic" in S4 just sort of emphasized those flaws and minimized the show's heretofore strengths IMO.

 

Which brings me to this admittedly ridiculous UO: If next season consisted of MotWs, never, ever mentioned the freaking neverending angel wars and gave us a brotherly relationship that offered more bonding than cringe-inducing dysfunction and had them uniting against common foes rather than battling/deceving/etc. each other, I'd be a very happy viewer instead of one who might not even keep watching.  I know that wouldn't be earned or even sensical based on these last couple of seasons; I know it's silly to expect the boys to just merrily hunt MotWs like the good old days; I know that means we'd be totally ignoring canon and leaving lots of untied plot threads, etc. But, honestly, it's what I'd rather see over this angst-drenched, horridly depressing, meandering mess. 

Edited June 4, 2014 by mstaken

[AwesomO4000]

Just like in the Season 5 Finale.

 

I already gave my Unpopular Opinion on that one. I thought Dean was critical there for very complex reasons which would take way too long to explain, so I didn't see him being cut out.

 

Of even being involved in saving Dean in any way at all, though - there I think the story entirely cut Sam out, and even went out of the way to do so by not even having him get involved with Ruby again in season 4 in the first place in an attempt to get Dean out of hell. And I think that was a mistake and also unnecessary. And then the new showrunners made the bizarre decision to do that again in season 8, which was also unncessary. I don't see how it couldn't have been a conscious decision though, and this is what makes me resist the writers trying to shove "crappy brother Sam" down my throat.

[mstaken]

UO - I don't like the idea of either of the boys going dark, ever.

 

ITA! Aren't their histories, their universe, the vast majority of people they meet and the show's overall tone sufficiently dark already?! For heaven's sake---oh, wait, I hate the show's version of "heaven" as well. ;)

[ElleryAnne]

If next season consisted of MotWs, never, ever mentioned the freaking neverending angel wars and gave us a brotherly relationship that offered more bonding than cringe-inducing dysfunction and had them uniting against common foes rather than battling/deceving/etc. each other, I'd be a very happy viewer instead of one who might not even keep watching.  I know that wouldn't be earned or even sensical based on these last couple of seasons; I know it's silly to expect the boys to just merrily hunt MotWs like the good old days; I know that means we'd be totally ignoring canon and leaving lots of untied plot threads, etc. But, honestly, it's what I'd rather see over this angst-drenched, horridly depressing, meandering mess.

 

 

Sing it.  You know I'm right there with you on this UO. :)

[Pete Martell]

Exactly! That's not to say I don't like Dean, because I do. But I feel like JP/Sam got shafted to an extent---the joyless, dour, personality-free guy who we learn from the outset has "abandoned" his beloved brother and is always pouting and snapping and killjoy-ing and, like, sleeping with demons and getting addicted to their blood. You know, the usual ;) Dean, meanwhile, is charming, funny, courageous, a hit with the ladies and with small children, singled out as a favorite by Castiel, Bobby and even Jo, tough but vulnerable, the loyal and protective one and a manly man who's always ready with a brave deed and witty one-liner. He's practically perfect, other than the allegedly 'low self-esteem' (which, IMUO, serves to woobify him more than presenting as a legitimate flaw) and the excessive boozing (which, on this show, has usually been presented as gritty and macho and all that anyway rather than problematic, much to my personal annoyance!) As rambled about above, Dean is practically a walking checklist of all that an ultra-cool hero should be. Sam, meanwhile, has pretty much always ranged from being dull and undefined to outright unlikable. As a somewhat uptight, emotional, academically inclined introvert, I want to love or at least relate to Sam, but the writers and actor make that so much harder than it should be! 

 

I think the show was relatively even-handed in how funny or smart or well-liked Dean and Sam were in the first two or three seasons. Dean was more extroverted, but Sam had fun too. This was often based on him taking the piss out of Dean, or in silly things happening to him (which was mostly a theme in early season 3), but it was still some type of happy moment. I don't think Sam became an excessively dour character until season 4. Other than a few bits here and there, which I'm pretty sure are from Jared, not from the writing, he's stayed that way ever since. 

 

I also think the writing stuck to the idea that both Dean and Sam had strengths and weaknesses until season 4, which is when, after a rampup of this in late season 3, we got the full beginning of the brothers being toxic for each other. I think that's what hurt Sam the most as a character, because if he's not good for Dean, if he's Dean's "weak spot," then what else is he in the narrative? Instead of addressing this, season 5 went into overdrive implying or outright stating (in my opinion) that Dean's only real value was in supporting Sam and helping Sam save the world. So it wasn't enough that Sam's role was atoning for past sins/saving the world, they had to make sure we knew Dean's main role was in being subservient to this plan.

 

Their relationship has been almost 100% toxic ever since, mostly with focus on whether or not they are saving each other. I am hoping this season will finally be something different, and not just about Sam saving Dean to make up for the last season's conflict.

 

Dean has had more bonds with other characters than Sam ever has, but it's a double-edged sword, as most of these relationships will always come second to Sam. And some of the relationships were unpleasant and damaging, if not outright abusive, like the way Bobby treated him. I always thought Sam was lucky to not be Bobby's "favorite." 

 

What I wish we got more of for Sam was him saving the day not in contrast to Dean, but just on his own abilities and history. "Mother's Little Helper" did so well in showing this, putting Sam in his own plot, one that was somewhat personal for Sam, given his past soullessness. 

What do you think was lost?

 

I think there was a certain clarity in Sam's characterization, a purity to it, that was lost after season 3. Sam's motivations were pretty clear in those first three seasons. His move toward a darker edge was relatively gradual, and still kept the characterization of the Sam we knew. Once they sacrificed that for noir or mystery or whatever in season 4, they never got it back.

[shang yiet]

 I saw Dean more as the Mary Sue character than Sam.

For me Sam was too often proved wrong, failed, or both to be a Mary Sue. Three of the major characteristics of a Mary Sue is that he/she always saves the day, all of the other characters like him/her best, and he/she's only flaw is something like caring too much; none of which describes Sam. At all. 

 

allegedly 'low self-esteem' (which, IMUO, serves to woobify him more than presenting as a legitimate flaw) Walking checklist of all an ultra hero should be.

 

Heh, wounded baby bird, eh? I agree. I think it's Dean who is the writer's avatar. The cool one who drives the cool car, gets the ladies, listens to the cool music, comes out with the cool pop references, is everyone's favourite and all supernatural creatures on earth and in heaven super interested in his self-esteem and feelings.

 

I don't find Sue flaws like low self-esteem very interesting.

[Pete Martell]

I think some of the "everyone's favorite" and "gets the ladies" tends to be surface. Dean had a lot of sex, but that wasn't because women preferred Dean to Sam - it was because, in the early seasons, Dean was more interested in casual sex than Sam was. There was never any real indication that women disliked Sam.

 

Being everyone's favorite is also up in the air, because, yes, he was close to Ellen and Jo than Sam was, but they were both relatively short-lived presences in the lives of the brothers, and this closeness Dean felt ended up leading him to blame himself for Jo's death. I thought Bobby treated Dean like garbage, so this "favorite" status wasn't much of a gift. 

 

There are others, like Benny, Cas, Charlie, and I do think they had a positive impact on Dean, and I wish Sam had strong friendships/bonds too, but ultimately all of these characters except Cas left, or were killed, or were sacrificed. 

 

In the end the narrative always goes back to Sam and Dean being alone and having no one but each other, and they don't really have each other either. 

 

Maybe that will change in the show's final season(s), I don't know.

[mstaken]

Maybe this is partly just my admittedly goofy sentimentality re. S1, but...I actually LIKE the much-mocked Bugs. And Hook Man. And even many parts of Route 666. 

 

Based on the little we saw of him, I actually think Pastor Jim could have been a more interesting adult character in the boys' lives than the all too typically 'crusty, hard-drinkin' curmudgeon with a not-so-secret heart of gold!' known as Bobby. I never hated Bobby, but I never loved him much either and think the show very awkwardly fanwanked the extent to which Bobby was involved in the boys' upbringing. 

[catrox14]

I liked Route 666 because we met Cassie, whom is NEVER  mentioned again in the show, because why would they mention the most important relationship Dean had with someone not named Mary or Sam or John at that time. Or that we learned that Dean was a deeper, more layered character that had been hurt in his life and wasn't necessarily who we thought he was by seeing this relationship and why it didn't necessarily work out but that they parted on decent terms and didn't hate each other and no one lost their memory of it.....other than fucking Kripke and Company.

 

But I'm not bitter....

Edited June 7, 2014 by catrox14

[7kstar]

Sometimes it seems like any idea I have is the unpopular one.  Looking at the last scene with Dean and Sam mixed with this season's ending, makes me like the direction Carver is taking the show a bit more.

 

I think if I just started watching in season 8 and hadn't really watched before that, I wouldn't be so tired of all the angst.  I've always found little moments I've liked in every season, but I really wished they had had the brothers unite to take on Michael and Lucifer instead of making Dean just an observer in the final hour. 

 

I don't see Dean written as a Mary Sue what so ever.  He doesn't have all the answers, and he has made some whoppers of errors.  The mark being the latest.  Mary Sue's have all the answers, always save the day and don't need others to win.  Dean has won with others including Sam helping him along the way.  JMV.

 

I like fanfiction and many write a nice story but yes it is getting harder to find them but then again a lot of tv shows and movies look like crap to me, and people love them so I guess I just seem to have the unpopular opinion and sometimes though it seems rare, I find someone that agrees with me.  It is nice when that happens.  :)

[catrox14]

My latest unpopular opinion is that I kind of hate the Lair o Letters now.  I miss the boys being on the road and in their hotels. Dean having a home didn't work out any better here than it did with Lisa. Since Gadreel was able to just waltz in and Crowley too without being summoned yet, then why are they even there anymore. I kind of hope they abandon it. Would the LoL try to spit Dean out now that he's a demon? 

[mstaken]

I think maybe I just overdosed on S2 from ridiculously frequent rewatches, but for whatever weird combination of reasons, my unpopular opinion is that I'm currently more personally attached to S1 and S3 than I am to S2. The sloppily executed psychic kids storyline, the bereavement over John and the endlessly contrived, drawn out 'Dean can't tell Sam what John told him even though the entire audience already knows!' stuff, and even the never-quite-sure-what-they-wanted-it-to-be Road House scenes all combine to make me love S2 just a little less than pretty much every fellow fan I know. 

Edited June 14, 2014 by mstaken

[DittyDotDot]

My latest unpopular opinion is that I kind of hate the Lair o Letters now.  I miss the boys being on the road and in their hotels. Dean having a home didn't work out any better here than it did with Lisa. Since Gadreel was able to just waltz in and Crowley too without being summoned yet, then why are they even there anymore. I kind of hope they abandon it. Would the LoL try to spit Dean out now that he's a demon? 

 

Well, it didn't stop Angel-In-A-Sam from entering or Crowley, so I imagine it wouldn't be anymore effective on Demonic Dean--unless of course it's necessitated by the plot that he not be allowed in, then I'm sure it will reject him.

 

I have never cared for the LoL. They've tried to do this sort of thing many times on the show--The Roadhouse, Bobby's House, The Campbell Base Full Of Stupidity--and it just never works long-term. They can't have their cake and eat it too--it's either a road show or it's not. They either need to set them down in a town or they need to give up the idea that they're crisscrossing the country. It makes no sense that they would be investigating something in Montana and then drive back to Kansas to the bunker to do research, then after finding their answers go back out on the road to finish the case. It's ridiculous. Plus, I have yet to see that set be shot in anyway that wows me. They always use it to do their boring sit-n-chats and barf up exposition.

 

I do feel I would be remiss if I didn't add a however at the end of my rant: However, that set is gorgeous and the art department really did something special with it. I just wish the writers and directors could live up to it's beauty.

Edited June 14, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

I agree that the LoL is actually a beautifully rendered set and I agree that's it not been utilized as well as it could be. Althought I'm not that keen on the color schemes because it think it washes out Jensen.

 

Like sometimes I thought he almost blended in with the colors with his reddish brownish hair and they put him in reds and yellows and that gross goldenrod jacket when he killed Abaddon.  I mean maybe that was all intentional to show Dean disappearing into the woodwork or something but too monochromatic and not flattering to Jensen. Not that he doesn't look gorgeous anyway but keep that man in blues, and greens and browns and white shirts, kthxbai.

[7kstar]

Well, it didn't stop Angel-In-A-Sam from entering or Crowley, so I imagine it wouldn't be anymore effective on Demonic Dean--unless of course it's necessitated by the plot that he not be allowed in, then I'm sure it will reject him.

 

I have never cared for the LoL. They've tried to do this sort of thing many times on the show--The Roadhouse, Bobby's House, The Campbell Base Full Of Stupidity--and it just never works long-term. They can't have their cake and eat it too--it's either a road show or it's not. 

 

I do feel I would be remiss if I didn't add a however at the end of my rant: However, that set is gorgeous and the art department really did something special with it. I just wish the writers and directors could live up to it's beauty.

The only plus is it stops the using credit card fraud to pay for stuff at least for a bit.  It gives them a place to return after a hunt.  But I agree they need to figure out how to use it, if they are going to keep the set.

 

I always thought that season two had some serious flaws.  The writers even agreed they didn't know what to do with the children with powers and just needed to move on.  I think that is the biggest flaw with the show.  They keep the story-lines that aren't working and don't keep the ones that are.  I think Carver has his eye on the big picture but the details is the issue with him.

Edited June 15, 2014 by 7kstar

[StillCrazy]

Some of my unpopular opinions are:

 

Cas is my favorite character

 

I don't think it is possible for me to care less about the Brotherly Bond

 

I would like Sam to take over the Bobby role and have Dean & Cas do the hunting

 

I liked Soulless Sam

 

I liked Becky

 

Demon!Dean has the potential to be interesting

 

I want the show to end with Dean being (and staying) dead and Sam getting the life he has always wanted

[Pete Martell]

Well, it didn't stop Angel-In-A-Sam from entering or Crowley, so I imagine it wouldn't be anymore effective on Demonic Dean--unless of course it's necessitated by the plot that he not be allowed in, then I'm sure it will reject him.

 

I have never cared for the LoL. They've tried to do this sort of thing many times on the show--The Roadhouse, Bobby's House, The Campbell Base Full Of Stupidity--and it just never works long-term. They can't have their cake and eat it too--it's either a road show or it's not. They either need to set them down in a town or they need to give up the idea that they're crisscrossing the country. It makes no sense that they would be investigating something in Montana and then drive back to Kansas to the bunker to do research, then after finding their answers go back out on the road to finish the case. It's ridiculous. Plus, I have yet to see that set be shot in anyway that wows me. They always use it to do their boring sit-n-chats and barf up exposition.

 

I do feel I would be remiss if I didn't add a however at the end of my rant: However, that set is gorgeous and the art department really did something special with it. I just wish the writers and directors could live up to it's beauty.

 

I agree, but I feel like the show has gotten better at this than they were in season 8, where they had things like that woman staying at the bunker with her son in "Remember the Titans."

 

This past season, most of the MOTW-focused episodes seemed to show them on the road for most of the case, and any bunker scenes took place before or after. The only time it felt hard for me to believe they went back to the bunker in a short space of time was after Dean died.

 

I don't think the show has used the set the way they could have, but I'm kind of glad SPN moved away from the "on the road" feel. I don't think the show ever took advantage of that after season 2. The set designers still came up with neat little hotels and restaurants, but the lighting just made everything seem the same. I also found their camping out at Rufus' cabin to be so horribly depressing. 

 

I do agree the set hasn't really been what they could have made of it, although I enjoyed the way it looked in "Captives."

Edited June 15, 2014 by Pete Martell

[millennium]

Heh, I guess I'll win the award for the most unpopular-ist opinion of them all...I could not care less about Dean Winchester. As a matter of fact, I stopped watching the show regularly because I got tired of the gravelly voice, the "do what I say attitude," the "I know best" mindset. All of it. Just ugh. No, I have to amend my statement, I just realized that I really don't like Dean Winchester. 

 

I haven't seen the early episodes in a very long time (I find that once you know who/what the monster is and how it turns out, there's very little reason to rewatch Supernatural; and yet I can watch X-Files episodes again and again).   Was Dean's voice always gravelly?  Or is it a more recent affectation?

 

Oh, and additional Unpopular Opinion:

 

I hate the continued farce of Sam and Dean pretending to be FBI agents when we all know they'd probably be busted the very first time they tried it.

 

I realize certain shows ask the audience to suspend disbelief -- "I wonder how Batman and Robin change into their costumes as they're coming down the Batpoles" or "Gee, how does Duncan Macleod fit that sword under his coat?" -- but to ask us to believe that Sam and Dean can pass themselves off as Federal agents in an internet-driven, post-9/11 world is complete bullshit.    If this were Police Squad, fine.   But otherwise, bullshit.

Edited June 15, 2014 by millennium

[Mulva]

I re-watched Scarecrow the other day, and Jensen's voice sounded natural.  He certainly didn't have the ridiculous 'batman growl' he's had since S4. 

 

The Wil Wheaton Project had a mock commercial for "Christian Bales's Reverse Throat Lozenges" .  It featured both Misha and Jensen.  Pretty Funny.

My real UO:

 

I wish they'd jettison the pretense of a Brother Bond completely.  It's been gone since S4, and it's way too late for it to come back.  I'd like to see the boys admit it, and work together as partners only or separate for good.  I realize that this won't happen as it would wreck the show, but it's gotten ridiculous.

 

I agree about them impersonating FBI agents, especially with Sam's hair, it's just not plausible.  I'd rather see them pretending to be writers, or private investigators or something.

 

 

[mstaken]

I hate the continued farce of Sam and Dean pretending to be FBI agents when we all know they'd probably be busted the very first time they tried it.

 

For some reason, that doesn't bother me. I guess it's because watching the boys impersonate different professionals (however poorly!) is fun for me, and lord knows I think this overly depressing, angst-drenched show needs all the fun it can get :)

 

I agree with the UO that that Jensen's post-S3 12-pack-a-day-smokers' voice takes me out of his scenes sometimes, especially when he and Mischa seem to be competing to see who can trot out the most absurd, unnatural growl while still keeping a straight face. It reminds me of the South Park episodes where they satirize Christian-Bale's Batman with kids dressing up as patently ridiculous, not-nearly-as-cool-as-they-think-they-are superheroes. 

Edited June 15, 2014 by mstaken

[catrox14]

My head!canon about Dean and Cas' voice off is that they are sexually attracted to each other and they keep lowering their voices subconsciously as a result :):)

[7kstar]

 

I agree with the UO that that Jensen's post-S3 12-pack-a-day-smokers' voice takes me out of his scenes sometimes, especially when he and Mischa seem to be competing to see who can trot out the most absurd, unnatural growl while still keeping a straight face.

 

Jensen talked about how it got started.  He wanted his voice to match his father's.  So he went deeper than his natural voice.  Then over the years his voice got deeper.  So he kept lowering it.  And yes there was a competition between Misha and Jensen to see who could make their voice deeper during one season.  Now they feel they are stuck with it, even if it harms their voice.  I think it would be better if they didn't go so low, but it did provide a laugh or two when I saw  'The Wil Wheaton Project" mock commercial for "Christian Bales's Reverse Throat Lozenges" . I agree it was pretty funny!

Edited June 16, 2014 by 7kstar

[7kstar]

I guess it must be unpopular to dislike Season 7.  I almost stopped watching, really.  So I don't see much to like in this Season and nothing, absolutely nothing they have done has redeemed Sam in my eyes.

 

I guess if you buy the I'm so sorry but I never did and the stupid stuff they did with Amy.  I don't even know if I like one ep out of this season that's how bad my dislike is.  I know I'm alone in this opinion so I won't weigh in the discussions about how great season 7 is.  Maybe because Sam is too close to someone I know in real life that is always saying I'm sorry, but never means it and goes back to doing the rotten stuff as usual.  For me this is why Carver broke up Sam and Dean again, because he was aware of how many were saying some pretty bad stuff about Sam. 

 

It is just my view but it was Carver that pulled me back into watching live.  Though to be fair it was season 9.  I still haven't watched a lot of season 8.  I did like Benny but after they killed off Benny 8 went down the drain, again.  I hope that Carver will redeem Sam in season 10 and stop with I'm so mad at Dean bit.  The brothers fighting is too worn out to ever be enjoyable to watch again.  I know that one view isn't unpopular.

 

So I guess if you only watch half a season you can love Supernatural?  Sorry, my warped sense of humor is showing up again.  :)

[mstaken]

So I guess if you only watch half a season you can love Supernatural?

 

Ha! My pathetic UO is that I haven't genuinely liked a season since S3. I've liked a few episodes from most of the post-S3 seasons (a little more than a handful from some seasons...a little less than a handful from others!) But yet I keep watching----albeit taking breaks from time to time---because, well, hope springs eternal. And because apparently I really, really liked those first three seasons, despite their flaws :) (S3 has somehow become my very favorite of all, which is very unpopular in most places!) 

Edited June 24, 2014 by mstaken

[7kstar]

 But yet I keep watching----albeit taking breaks from time to time---because, well, hope springs eternal. And because apparently I really, really liked those first three seasons, despite their flaws :) (S3 has somehow become my very favorite of all, which is very unpopular in most places!) 

I might have a death wish...I kept working at a bank after we were robbed, we were only robbed 5 times in one year and I only experienced 3...might make a good story one day.  So I kept trying to watch when I felt like it.  But I know I missed a lot.

 

I tuned into Lost to see the last ep even though I had totally stopped watching. 

 

I guess my one hope that springs eternal is that the brothers will finally like each other again and unite to fight the big bad.  I guess when we get to the eps on season 7, I'll find out if I liked more than I think I do, but I only own seasons 1-5.  I figured why buy the whole season when it most likely will be cheaper to buy the eps I like.  I just have to figure out which ones those are!  LOL.

Edited June 24, 2014 by 7kstar

[DittyDotDot]

I guess it must be unpopular to dislike Season 7.

 

I don't think that's a particularly unpopular opinion @7kstar, I think I'm mostly in the minority there. I've found that most people (other than my weird ass) prefer it to S6, but most folks don't like that one either, so I don't think it's actual praise. The reason why I actually prefer S7 to S8 and S9 is because the boys were working together and for the most part were supportive of each other all season. I just prefer the show when they are proactively working together rather than bickering and fighting with each other. Also, I really liked a few of the MoTWs and actually enjoy them on re-watch too--Hello, Cruel World, Time After Time, The Mentalists, Plucky Pennywhistle's Magical Menagerie and there are a couple others that I'm not thinking of--but admittedly, I have weird taste.  I can't say that I've re-watched one episode from S8 and am dreading getting there on the current re-watch. Dreading S9 even more.

 

So don't worry, I don't think you're alone at all.

[catrox14]

I'll be with this stupid show to the bitter end as long as Jensen is on it. 

[7kstar]

If I'm still checking out the show, most likely I will stay till the bitter end. 

 

By the way all the debate we do about the show, even the stuff we hate communicates how much we love the show.  People that hate it, aren't watching and won't come back. 

 

I think sometimes that is why the flame the flames.  The fans in a heated discussion, means ratings...right?  :)

[DittyDotDot]

Yes, for all my seething, I obviously don't hate the show--just a bit disappointed at times.

[Mcolleague]

Even if I end up hating absolutely everything else, I still love Dean, so I guess I will be here until the bitter end. Argh, this show. 

[islandgal140]

My UO, which I am not sure are unpopular as I don't have my fingers on the pulse of the Supernatural viewing public:

 

- I really don't give a damn about the half brother still roasting on a spit in hell. He was always an unnecessary add on to me.

 

- Cassie and Dean's sex scene from route 666 is still the hottest ever featured on the show. 

 

- I love Daddy Winchester, mostly because of JDM's beauty, and really hope they would resurrect John or at the least have him come back as a spirit or in a flashback or something. 

 

- The whole busty Asian hooters mag running gag thing always bugged. Especially since I don't think there has ever been an Asian female character featured either as a hunter or love interest damsel in distress of the week. Is that because things would've have been awkward?

 

- Dean's most special kind of man pain is played out and frankly, I think I maybe over it.

 

- Jared's acting ability may not be on par with Jensen's but I feel like he has become a non factor & non entity on his own series and it makes me sad. He is the straight man so thee was always a danger that he would be 2nd fiddle to Dean but I wish they would imbue him with some personality. Even Sam's diet is a source of ridicule. Every time I see that big ass man with a salad in front of him I want to LOL! How did he get some damn big on rabbit food?

 

- This past season made me realize that I hate angel arc stories. With the exception of a few angels, they are just as big assholes as the demons. Maybe more because at least the demons realize they are assholes and screwed eternally.

 

-  The trickster wore out his welcome after Tall Tales and Mystery Spot. I really hate him in all subsequent episodes. Hate! Every time he popped up I wanted to punch him in his face.

 

- I liked the concept of Amelia, Sam's love interest. She was just a terrible, terrible actress and the story was of course, poorly executed.

 

- I like Charlie and that they have a gay character on the show, but I seethe because I think this was a way for the show to appease fans by having a female on the show that wouldn't be a possible love interest for the either of the boys.

 

- I want the boys to have significant others. Are they supposed to be asexual monks or have one night stands for life?

 

- I have liked most of the love interests to a varying degree. 

 

- The show runners have been trying to get blood from a stone with some of these stories from the past 2-3 seasons. I think it is getting to be time to put this horse down. 

 

 - I loved Gordon the Hunter and wished they hadn't killed him off. I liked when the boys would work with other hunters or use their hunter resources/network. 

 

- Speaking of hunters, the show needs to go back to focusing on them and bring in some that aren't Garth. 

Edited June 25, 2014 by islandgal140

[DittyDotDot]

Even Sam's diet is a source of ridicule. Every time I see that big ass man with a salad in front of him I want to LOL! How did he get some damn big on rabbit food?

 

This is actually something that's not on TPTB...Jared requests salads when they have to do an eating scene. He's said he doesn't like to eat on screen anyway, but if he's going to have to eat the same thing over and over and over again to get all the coverage on the scene, he says he prefers it to be salad as apposed to something heavy like burgers and such.

[mstaken]

- The whole busty Asian hooters mag running gag thing always bugged.

 

Ugh. Yes. Right there with you. 

 

 

 

- This past season made me realize that I hate angel arc stories. With the exception of a few angels, they are just as big assholes as the demons. Maybe more because at least the demons realize they are assholes and screwed eternally.

 

And, worse yet, they're all so dull and interchangeable to me at this point. Unpopularly enough, I didn't even like the angel stuff back in S4 when it was fresh and new, so suffice it to say I'm beyond over it by now! 

 

 

 

- I loved Gordon the Hunter and wished they hadn't killed him off. I liked when the boys would work with other hunters or use their hunter resources/network.

 

Woo hoo---a fellow Gordon fan! I found him a really compelling character and like the actor who plays him. And, yes, I'm dying for more interaction with HUMANS----hunters, law enforcement officials etc.---and less with those freaking angels and demons. 

Edited June 25, 2014 by mstaken

[Pete Martell]

It's funny because I liked Gordon but I hated almost his entire storyline and I thought it was a huge waste of potential in order to have yet another parallel and morality tale that we didn't need.

[7kstar]

I liked how Gordon was introduced and beaten but after Hunted I didn't like how they used him.  I certainly didn't like him being turned into a vampire and I skip the scene where Sam kills him.

[catrox14]

I'm starting to think that Carver is trying to slowly flip the angels for the demons and I don't think he gets that the best thing about the angels was when they were all dicks.

[Pete Martell]

I'm starting to think that Carver is trying to slowly flip the angels for the demons and I don't think he gets that the best thing about the angels was when they were all dicks.

 

For me the best thing about the angels was when they were truly mysterious creatures with mysterious motives. Uriel, Cas, to a lesser degree Anna. Once it became "angels are dicks" all the time thanks to one-note Zachariah smirking and scowling in his many interminable scenes, I lost most of my interest. I think that choice did incredible damage to season 5 and future seasons. That's one of the reasons I was happy to have Naomi, although they also mishandled her. 

 

The writing for the angels this past season was all over the place - most of them were redshirts, then you have a few misunderstood angels, like Gadreel, who had a lot of tell-not-show writing. They seemed to want to let us learn about angels struggling to adapt to humanity, but didn't know how to show this. Perhaps next season they can, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

The demons always worked best for me as the absurdly pure evil of the first few seasons. Misunderstood, angst-ridden demons and cuddly comic relief demons make me pause. I loved Abaddon because she was such a throwback. And of course she's dead now. They finally got Crowley right this past season for the first time in a while, so hopefully that and Dean as a demon means we may get some good stuff next season.

[catrox14]

Ugh. Dean :(.Fuck Crowley. I hate him now.  /weeps.

[Linderhill]

It was such a relief to read on here that there are others that aren't in favor of the DemonDean storyline.  Every time I read or listen to a podcast where the hosts/writers gush on about how they hope that Dean stays Demonized for more than a couple episodes infuriates me.  I literally yell no in answer.  I hate, hate, hate this storyline, even more than the brother freud this past season.  No, the show does not need to go dark or edgy to stay relevant.  But then I'm not one of those viewers that thinks the demons are the most interesting characters on the show.  

 

Now for the rest of my UO's:

I never liked Meg, and thought she was over used.  

 

Crowly, while I love Mark Shepperd I think they've lost track of the character.  The writers, etc. seem to forget that demons are evil.  They are not warm and cuddley and really can't be redeemed (no, Meg never became "good" just because she nursed Castiel).  

 

I never liked Garth.  Well, he was alright the first couple of times we saw him but I'm perfectly happy that he seems to be gone.  

 

I do not care for Charlie.  There I've said it.  Her overall storyline has turned out okay but I've never understood the gushing that people over the actress.  Heck, I think I'm blocking out her name. Oh yeah, Felicia Day.  I'm sure she's a nice enough person but I could never understand why Joss Whedon was so enamored with her (but then I don't think Joss Whedon is all that either).  Every time I read or hear fans talking about bringing her back or spinning her character off I cringe.  

 

I have no problem with how Abbadon was killed.  I'm glad she's gone.

 

I never thought that there is a problem with female characters getting killed off.  I don't think that makes the show misogynistic. 

 

I have no problem with the show using the word "bitch".  

 

and finally, because I can't say it enough, I HATE the DemonDean story line and I hope he's cured quickly.  

[DittyDotDot]

I never thought that there is a problem with female characters getting killed off.  I don't think that makes the show misogynistic.

 

I have no problem with the show using the word "bitch".

 

and finally, because I can't say it enough, I HATE the DemonDean story line and I hope he's cured quickly.

 

I agree with all of these (and other's, but thought it would be too long to try to address them all). I don't see the show as being misogynistic. Yes, it's a show about the life of men, but that doesn't mean they hate women. I also don't think they kill off more women than men--they kill everyone. I do wish that everybody didn't need to die though--male or female--it'd be nice to leave some saved folks out there once in a while. And Dean using the word bitch has no real effect on me one way or the other--does seem overused the last couple of seasons though--but I find it rather in-character for Dean to use it. I've become more annoyed with the overuse of "son of a bitch" lately, it's really become a catch phrase for Dean and I didn't think Supernatural needed catchphrases. I know he's always said it, but it seems like he says it at least once an episode now rather than a handful of times through out a season.

 

And right there with you about the DemonDean stuff.

[Mulva]

My UO is that I never cared either way for Benny.  I just found him dull, and I couldn't have cared less about his 'twagic backstory'.  I'm glad he's back in Purgatory.

 

I also think it would have been far more interesting to have the vampire Dean had to work with in Purgatory be Gordon, and face an ethical dilemma about bringing him back.  In fact, I think the entire Purgatory storyline was a waste.  Instead of Dean confronting people he'd killed, such as Amy, Lenore, Gordon, Madison, etc. we had endless scenes of Dean running through a dimly lit forest with some random vamp I didn't care about.

[catrox14]

That's a really interesting idea although I don't know what Gordon's motivation would be to help Dean considering they pretty much hate other now. What would be Gordon's motivation for wanting to go back to human land.

 

But along those lines, since Gordon hunted Sam and Sam chopped off Gordon's head with razor wire, I would have loved to see those two encounter each other. And need each other's help.

[DittyDotDot]

I always thought that purgatory would have been more interesting with Gordon--either gunning for Dean or helping him--I really like Sterling and wish they could find another way to bring him back for an episode.

[catrox14]

DDD, that's why I hope they make s10 the end of it. I'm kind of hoping that maybe s10 becomes Dean's long good bye like s3 was. I would love for part of Dean's recovery or ultimate demise to be a hit parade of cameos of people he tried to help with mixed results (Gordon, Victor, Linda Blair, Jody, Charlie, the sheriffs from The Benders and the Purge, CASSIE!. My gods if the show had Dean end up with Cassie or Castiel, I would forgive pretty much any other shitty thing they have ever done.

[mstaken]

While S2 has some of the series' highest highs for me and S3 is (unpopularly!) my favorite season overall, in some bizarre way I feel like the show peaked in its Pilot and never *quite*, even at its best, realized that potential. On a show that for me has serious issues with balance, pacing and tone, for me the Pilot was a fabulous blend of humor and poignancy, of emotion and action, of fabulous characterization and highly engaging plot, of humor and angst, of an interesting individual myth and hints of an intriguing overall arc. I loved both brothers and their relationship and shudder to think of what's become of their characters and depressing relationship since. (How odd that the brothers were allegedly most estranged back in the Pilot, having not even interacted for years, yet somehow I felt far more of a genuine affection and bond between them then than I do now!)  Ad, oh, how I miss S1 Sam. In case it's not abundantly clear, I hold the UO of naming the Pilot as one of my three favorite, most rewatchable episodes of the entire series :)  I tend to think most Pilots are clunky, but this was one of my all-time favorites, and I often find myself wishing later episodes could capture a similar tone and feel.  

[7kstar]

@mstaken I totally agree the pilot is a great start.  I have rewatched many times especially when I want to see the brothers at a fun moment.  The potienal is so great the setup is strong and sometimes I wonder why they couldn't keep it going and really wonder if the writers understand what the fans mean when they say they miss season 1. 

 

I'm afraid they think they want the brothers not getting along and if that is so popular then I'm really not one of their members.  I think the show is at it's strongest when they unite and fight together.  Seeing the brothers using their particular strengths to complete goals is what drew me in. 

 

Sigh I guess this is unpopular reading fanfiction that focus on the brothers although I don't mind Dean whump stories, for some reason I 'm not a big fan of Sam whump though.  Maybe because the show whumps Sam too much already?

Edited July 12, 2014 by 7kstar