Roseanne in Pop Culture

[tessaray]

Discuss Roseanne in popular culture.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Maybe, but Roseanne was right back then. The first season of the show just wasn't very good. They didn't know how to write for someone like Roseanne, they were used to writing for housewives like Carol Brady and June Cleaver. That's the only role they knew for women back then.

I don't think that's actually true.  This was 1988/89.  Non-mom and working mom roles for women had existed on television for a long time by that point.  I would just say that Williams and Roseanne had very different ideas on what to do with the show, had personalities that did not mesh and at that point, the network was more interested in keeping the star of a hit show happy.   

[Neko]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't think that's actually true.  This was 1988/89.  Non-mom and working mom roles for women had existed on television for a long time by that point.  I would just say that Williams and Roseanne had very different ideas on what to do with the show, had personalities that did not mesh and at that point, the network was more interested in keeping the star of a hit show happy.   

I was going to say something like this, but you said it better than I could.  I remember watching shows like "One Day At a Time" and "Kate and Allie" long before "Roseanne" was on the air, and the moms on those shows were not June Cleaver types.  It is true that "Roseanne" portrayed the lower middle class in a way no show ever had, but it's a myth that Roseanne Conner was the first TV mom who broke out of the 1950's mold.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Sweet Summer Child

[Rap541]

I think Roseanne was ground breaking in that the family was blue collar and the mom worked. Sitcom families in th ed 1980s were overwhelmingly middle class to upper middle class. No one ever worried about paying for college on Growing Pains, or Family Ties or on the Cosby show. The moms were always in good professional jobs (Kate and Allie were in good jobs as I recall as well) and you rarely heard a mom or a dad deny a regular treat as a "we can't afford it" thing. A big treat, like a car for a birthday or whatever, yeah, but money for movies or getting a new dress? Was there. The show Roseanne was grounder breaking in being willing to address the reality that not every one does well.

[Gigglepuff]

2 hours ago, Sweet Summer Child said:

I was going to say something like this, but you said it better than I could.  I remember watching shows like "One Day At a Time" and "Kate and Allie" long before "Roseanne" was on the air, and the moms on those shows were not June Cleaver types.  It is true that "Roseanne" portrayed the lower middle class in a way no show ever had, but it's a myth that Roseanne Conner was the first TV mom who broke out of the 1950's mold.

 Yes! And may I add Florida Evans from "Good Times" as a working class TV mom? Not to take away from the original's success and impact, but there were definitely other women who broke the 50's mold before Roseanne came along. 

That said, there's no denying that there was something very special about the original run of "Roseanne." It just jelled and transcended class imo. I was brought up middle class and by a single mother, we didn't struggle financially way the Conners did, but I could still relate very well to the sibling rivalry, the family quarrels, the struggles Darlene had fitting in with her peers, the teen angst from Becky and Darlene and their struggle to assert their independence, the imperfectness of the entire family. 

I don't want a reboot of the reboot and if there is one, I doubt I'll tune in. I think I'd prefer to remember the Conners from my youth, a somewhat dysfunctional yet loving family. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

I think Roseanne was ground breaking in that the family was blue collar and the mom worked. Sitcom families in th ed 1980s were overwhelmingly middle class to upper middle class. No one ever worried about paying for college on Growing Pains, or Family Ties or on the Cosby show. The moms were always in good professional jobs (Kate and Allie were in good jobs as I recall as well) and you rarely heard a mom or a dad deny a regular treat as a "we can't afford it" thing. A big treat, like a car for a birthday or whatever, yeah, but money for movies or getting a new dress? Was there. The show Roseanne was grounder breaking in being willing to address the reality that not every one does well.

Then there was Carol Brady. A stay at home mom with a live in maid FFS.

[Kazu]

6 hours ago, break21 said:

One question, if they want to move forward without Roseanne is would Goodman and Metcalf be willing to work without her.  When ABC wanted to fire Roseanne in the original run, they refused to do the show without her. 

Back in March, a week before the reboot debuted, Roseanne and John appeared on Jimmy Kimmel. John had mentioned something in response to Jimmy's question about Roseanne quitting the show before.  According to her, she quit after the filming of the third episode of the first season. Jimmy asked John how he found out about Roseanne quitting. John responded that he received a call from Laurie who was crying and upset at what transpired. John then said he told Laurie that what has happened, happened. There is nothing they could do about it other than "dance along with Roseanne." I have the show on DVR. I would have to check to make sure those were his exact words, but overall, he was pretty much implying he didn't make an issue out of it and if Roseanne quit, oh well. Time to move on. I think John still feels that way and that is why his response to all of this wasn't on the same scale as Sarah and Michael. He seems like he just doesn't want to rattle the cage. He can't change what has happened.

Interesting bit from that interview. Jimmy mentioned her previous tweets and some of the things she believes in. He also asked her about her politics and when did she change.  I won't go into details since it is political. She rambled on and started talking directly to the audience. It was as if she was in a different zone. She mentioned two particular names and started talking politics.  John looked a bit uncomfortable and even looked at his watch. She sounded like she was giving a speech. Suddenly, the look on her face changed and she quickly said to Jimmy in a lowered voice, "Oh. I am not going to get in trouble, am I?" [paraphrasing] as the moment of realization set in.

 

1 hour ago, Gigglepuff said:

 Yes! And may I add Florida Evans from "Good Times" as a working class TV mom? Not to take away from the original's success and impact, but there were definitely other women who broke the 50's mold before Roseanne came along. 

 

Florida stayed home in the John Amos years. When she did finally have a short story line where she had a part-time job, John Amos' character declared it was wrong for a woman to work and that the husband should bring home the bacon. It was his stance on many occasions. Only when she became a widow, a single parent with children, did the character work full-time.

4 hours ago, Sweet Summer Child said:

I was going to say something like this, but you said it better than I could.  I remember watching shows like "One Day At a Time"

 

Another character who was working because she was a single parent. She didn't work prior to her divorce according to what was mentioned on at least one episode.

Roseanne wasn't a single parent. She wasn't a widow.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Kazu

[CherryAmes]

I'm really trying to think about a married woman who was a main character on a sitcom who held a job before Roseanne.  Most of the examples that are coming to mind usually involved her taking a job for some specific reason and then losing it because she screwed up or quitting because hubbie objected!  If Roseanne was the first married woman to work outside the home that was pretty groundbreaking.

Edited June 1, 2018 by CherryAmes

[Lokiberry]

10 minutes ago, Kazu said:

Florida stayed home in the John Amos years. When she did finally have a short story line where she had a part-time job, John Amos' character declared it was wrong for a woman to work and that the husband should bring home the bacon. It was his stance on many occasions. Only when she became a widow, a single parent with children, did the character work full-time.

Good Times was a spinoff of Maude, where Florida worked as a maid. Her family wasn't introduced until she got her own show (I think, I never watched more than an episode or two of Maude). So, technically Florida was a married working mother in a sitcom before Roseanne. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Lokiberry

[Kazu]

1 hour ago, Lokiberry said:

Good Times was a spinoff of Maude, where Florida worked as a maid. 

Yeah, James' name was Henry in Maude and he was a firefighter. lol  It may have been a spin-off, but the characters were not the same.

James didn't approve of his wife working.  She tried to get him to understand that her having a job would help the family whereas he took it as he was incapable of supporting his family if she took a job.  Dan never put down Roseanne for having a job. James made it seem a woman having a job outside of the home was something that was shameful. I grew up in that era (70s).   I grew up with a mother who had just retired from running one of our family businesses while my father worked at our other family business. James' view was so out there for me. I am glad my father viewed his wife working as a partnership.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Kazu

[Fellaway]

9 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

I'm really trying to think about a married woman on a sitcom who held a job before Roseanne.  Most of the examples that are coming to mind usually involved her taking a job for some specific reason and then losing it because she screwed up or quitting because hubbie objected!  If Roseanne was the first married woman to work outside the home that was pretty groundbreaking.

Rhoda Morgenstern, but, of course, they didn't have kids and eventually got divorced.  But Rhoda always worked and that was the '70s.

[Crs97]

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I'm really trying to think about a married woman on a sitcom who held a job before Roseanne

Cosby Show, Family Ties, Growing Pains, Too Close for Comfort - all started before Roseanne 

[sinycalone]

2 hours ago, Rap541 said:

I think Roseanne was ground breaking in that the family was blue collar and the mom worked. Sitcom families in th ed 1980s were overwhelmingly middle class to upper middle class. No one ever worried about paying for college on Growing Pains, or Family Ties or on the Cosby show. The moms were always in good professional jobs (Kate and Allie were in good jobs as I recall as well) and you rarely heard a mom or a dad deny a regular treat as a "we can't afford it" thing. A big treat, like a car for a birthday or whatever, yeah, but money for movies or getting a new dress? Was there. The show Roseanne was grounder breaking in being willing to address the reality that not every one does well.

Kate and Allie did not have good jobs.  At the beginning Allie couldn't find work and Kate was a travel agent at an average agency.  Eventually, they opened the catering business which let them both work out of their home...but they were always worried about meeting expenses, etc.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, Rap541 said:

I think Roseanne was ground breaking in that the family was blue collar and the mom worked. Sitcom families in th ed 1980s were overwhelmingly middle class to upper middle class. No one ever worried about paying for college on Growing Pains, or Family Ties or on the Cosby show. The moms were always in good professional jobs (Kate and Allie were in good jobs as I recall as well) and you rarely heard a mom or a dad deny a regular treat as a "we can't afford it" thing. A big treat, like a car for a birthday or whatever, yeah, but money for movies or getting a new dress? Was there. The show Roseanne was grounder breaking in being willing to address the reality that not every one does well.

It was groundbreaking because no one had seen a white family like that; but Good Times aired in the 1970's; and that show was about a family living in the projects.

[CherryAmes]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

Cosby Show, Family Ties, Growing Pains, Too Close for Comfort - all started before Roseanne 

And I watched all those shows!  Cool.  I guess then we're back to the blue collar aspect of the show being groundbreaking.

[J-Man]

Quote

I'm really trying to think about a married woman who was a main character on a sitcom who held a job before Roseanne.

Mrs. Baxter was an interior decorator on "Hazel."

[TVFAN]

8 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

I guess then we're back to the blue collar aspect of the show being groundbreaking.

No.  The Bunkers of "All in the Family" predated Roseanne by years, and they were definitely blue collar.  And long, long before that "The Honeymooners" were blue collar.

[UYI]

2 hours ago, TVFAN said:

No.  The Bunkers of "All in the Family" predated Roseanne by years, and they were definitely blue collar.  And long, long before that "The Honeymooners" were blue collar.

And Married...with Children premiered one year before Roseanne (Roseanne was their first choice to play Peg!), even though one might argue that MWC was more of a parody of blue collar families (then again, there are people out there who say the Bundys are a lot like their family, sooo...yeah). 

[Kazu]

4 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Cosby Show, Family Ties, Growing Pains, Too Close for Comfort - all started before Roseanne 

None of those families would compare to the Conners who faced difficult times such as having their electricity turned off,  dipping into their kid's college fund until it was gone, evading bill collectors, etc. Too Close For Comfort featured parents who had two adult daughters who lived in their own apartment. No comparison to a blue collar family who were struggling to make ends meet with three minor children under one roof.

[Crs97]

The question was simply if shows before Roseanne had married women who worked outside the home.  Those shows did.

[mythoughtis]

The concept that made the show something new and different wasn’t blue-collar or thw working wife. It was the fact that Roseanne was not the same perfect homemaker and wife other shows portrayed.  She didn’t clean house in a dress, pearls, and high heels. She didn’t have dinner waiting on the table. She didn’t have all the answers. She spoke to her family the way normal wives and moms spoke, which wasn’t always in a loving manner. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by mythoughtis

[Kazu]

16 hours ago, Crs97 said:

The question was simply if shows before Roseanne had married women who worked outside the home.  Those shows did.

This was the entire post:

I'm really trying to think about a married woman who was a main character on a sitcom who held a job before Roseanne.  Most of the examples that are coming to mind usually involved her taking a job for some specific reason and then losing it because she screwed up or quitting because hubbie objected!  If Roseanne was the first married woman to work outside the home that was pretty groundbreaking.

Quote

The concept that made the show something new and different wasn’t blue-collar or thw working wife. It was the fact that Roseanne was not the same perfect homemaker and wife other shows portrayed.  She didn’t clean house in a dress, pearls, and high heels. She didn’t have dinner waiting on the table. She didn’t have all the answers. She spoke to her family the way normal wives and moms spoke, which wasn’t always in a loving manner. 

Exactly.

The Roseanne Conner character was not comparable to Claire Huxtable or any of the previous mentioned female characters. She was a married woman who wasn't college educated and who worked at a factory and later, worked at minimum wage-type jobs. She was not a divorced woman or a widow. She wasn't a career woman who came home to a tidy place with kids who wore the latest designer clothes. She needed to work at a job to sustain her family. Even with two incomes in the Conner household, the show was realistic by showcasing that a two-income family still has financial issues and struggles like many families including having children who weren't always well-mannered and behaved.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Kazu

[SmithW6079]

21 hours ago, Neurochick said:

It was groundbreaking because no one had seen a white family like that; but Good Times aired in the 1970's; and that show was about a family living in the projects.

Yes, thank you. I made that point on another Roseanne thread.

[Kazu]

Quote

It was groundbreaking because no one had seen a white family like that; but Good Times aired in the 1970's; and that show was about a family living in the projects.

If not for Ester Rolle, it would have been about a single black mother raising her kids in the projects. She demanded a father be added to the series.

When John Amos left the show, it ended up becoming a show that Ester Rolle was trying to avoid in the first place.

[CherryAmes]

For me what was cool about the original Roseanne was that they talked to each other the way I think real families talked.  My mother wasn't always the sweet voice of reason, sometimes she was the shrill voice of total exasperation!  And of course the Conners screwed up, big time.  Most of the time on other family sitcoms, the parents were practically perfect in every way.  What was refreshing about Roseanne was that Dan and Roseanne were far from perfect - physically they were both big people for one thing - a heavy woman leading a show was a rarity back then, it's a rarity now for that matter - and of course they constantly blew it with budget choices etc.   

Which reminds me another thing I thought was novel about original Roseanne was that they had to live with the consequences of their bad decisions.  Mostly on sitcoms what happens in one episode doesn't always get addressed again.  On Everybody Loves Raymond as an example they have one episode where Robert is poor and eating baloney pie.  After that episode it's like this never happened.  On Roseanne they'd have been eating baloney pie for the rest of the year!

Edited June 3, 2018 by CherryAmes

[Yeah No]

On 6/1/2018 at 11:07 AM, iMonrey said:

Maybe, but Roseanne was right back then. The first season of the show just wasn't very good. They didn't know how to write for someone like Roseanne, they were used to writing for housewives like Carol Brady and June Cleaver. That's the only role they knew for women back then.

Maybe in the '60s they would have had a hard time writing for her, but I don't agree that this was true in the late 80s after we already had shows like "Mary Tyler Moore", "Murphy Brown", "MASH", "Moonlighting", "Golden Girls", "Murder She Wrote", "Designing Women", "Wonder Woman", "Maude", "Kate and Allie", "Cagney and Lacey", etc.  "Roseanne" was part of a trend at that time to feature strong independent women on TV, and actually came along late in the game compared to some of these series.

[Neko]

I answered the way I did because of the original post that claimed TV moms were still being written with that 1950's template well into the 1980's, was simply wasn't true.  We had seen working women well before Roseanne, single, divorced, or whatever.  Maybe not as blue collar as Roseanne, but that's not what I was referring to.  My point was that the dress and pearls model was completely outdated before 1988.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Sweet Summer Child