S03.E19: The Fanatical

[AudienceofOne]

I've seen little evidence that Lena is passive-aggressive and I don't find any of the writing around the issue ambiguous.

Mileage varies, as it always does.

43 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Either way, it doesn't make sense at this point for Kara not to come clean to Lena unless she really doesn't trust her.

I agree and as I said above, all of Kara's "but we're BEST FRIENDS" nonsense is nonsense if she doesn't trust her with the secret because she's a Luthor.

[bros402]

I liked the Myrnn/Ruby pairing. They should spend the rest of the episodes this season together. Maybe she'll take off the physic dampener thing, then Myrnn will help Ruby save Sam through psychic Martian stuff. Then the stress of it will cause Myrnn to die make it a bittersweet ending.

[Cranberry]

I hate what they've done with Alex. I know they gave her and Maggie opposing views on having kids because they needed a legitimate reason to write Maggie off the show without killing her, but I think that was a mistake. Alex never came across as maternal; in fact, while she obviously loves Kara, she resented always prioritizing Kara's needs above her own. She's also always been shown to love her job and to basically have to be forced to sit out a mission. Now all of a sudden she's fine with skipping big missions in favor of babysitting an annoying child? (A child who was fine where she was and was only put in danger last week because Alex went after her, to boot.) Alex's scenes were some of my favorites last year, but now I'm either bored or annoyed by them. I hope the gang manages to cure Sam so she and Ruby can go off into the sunset, because the last thing I want to see is Sam dying and Alex getting saddled with her kid. Alex better get more to do next season.

I'm still on Lena's side in her argument with Supergirl. She has no obligation to answer to the DEO or to update Supergirl on every piece of tech she invents, especially when it was not meant as a weapon and when it's the only thing keeping a literal world killer quiet and contained. Last week I thought she was messing with Kara in the elevator, waiting to see if Supergirl somehow found out about James lying, but now I'm not so sure. I think it's ridiculous that she apparently has no idea Kara is Supergirl, and if when she does eventually find out it pushes her to go evil, I'll be angry. I agree that Lena Luthor as a villain would be lazy writing and (like I've said several times before) would be a horrible message -- if your family is bad, you shouldn't even try to be good because you'll fail. Morally grey is fine -- more interesting than unambiguously good, even -- but full-on villain just because her friend lied to her? No thanks.

[immortalfrieza]

On 5/21/2018 at 9:49 PM, CloudySky said:

Seems like James gets A Very Special Episode once a season. Too bad they can't just integrate him into the plot the other 20+ episodes.

Quote

Also too bad that in a show called Supergirl, it's Guardian and Mon-El to the rescue.

The main issue with Guardian is with Supergirl around there's pretty much no point to his character. There is very little that Guardian can do that Supergirl can't, and Alex or J'onn can do everything that Guardian could do in place of Supergirl, so the character is redundant. They tried to give James more to do by making him into a superhero then failed to give him anything to do, I think they should have just given James Catco and focused on integrating that stuff to the rest of the show more effectively. Though, I'll give the show props this episode because I noticed that Guardian was doing some Batmanlike stuff, more of that please.

22 hours ago, Wordsworth said:

James thinks he's being targeted by the police because he's black and not because he's the infamous vigilante Guardian that they've been looking for for awhile now.

See, I don't think National City will have any problem with Guardian being black.  I think some of them will have a problem with him being a vigilante.  But TPTB had to make their SJW point that skin color is the only reason someone is confronted by the police. After all, everyone knows that police officers routinely handcuff 7-year olds for playing outside a hotel, rather than telling them to go play someplace else.

Definitely, that's really the only part of the episode I hated, I've always hated when political B.S. is thrown into an episode but this one was just painful. Instead of worrying about family or friends that might be in danger or getting arrested for being a vigilante if he outed himself (not to mention all the possibly unintentional "coming out of the closet" undertones that the whole scene had) he goes on this tangent about being black that comes out of nowhere. Not that Guardian has actually done anything to piss off any supervillains or notable criminals since his creation so nobody he knows would be in danger anyway.

16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here: this is a world chock full of extra-terrestrial aliens of all colors, shapes and sizes. In other words, it's not our world. For all we know, this alternate world may have no racial issues. It literally wasn't until James had his big monologue here that I was aware people of color have the same trouble with police that they have on our own world. There have never even been any previous references to race on this show that I can recall. To that end, this felt inorganic and didactic.

 

Actually, they spent a few episodes after the whole "aliens are everywhere on Earth" thing was revealed to the world (I forget exactly when that happened) basically using extra-terrestrial aliens as a metaphor for racism and immigration. THAT was handled a lot more organically than James' tangent this episode.

17 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I disagree... She's well within her rights to hold a grudge... And further.. Her grudge or should I say obvious disdain isn't stopping her from helping... Lena has helped and helped and helped and  its all been good but the second she didn't do exactly what Kara wanted or expected... She was Lex's sister again... Supergirl's then started barking orders and had someone really close to Lena spy on her(  so now she's messing with Lena's bedroom)...  I don't know about y'all but a weak  apology and another outburst of  the same behavior wouldn't make me wanna be All friendly either..  I would have to reassess the relationship... 

Exactly. Kara showed a complete lack of trust of Lena the last couple episodes and not only violated all of Lena's trust by trying to break into her vault but got her boyfriend of all people to do it on top of that. Then Kara made extremely token apologies this episode while refusing to even acknowledge the reasons why Lena has a problem with her much less concede Lena's points, with the only thing she seems to think she was in the wrong for was getting James to break into the vault. Kara was being pretty condescending about it too, she just basically said "Okay, I admit it, what I did was wrong and I'm sorry, so just get over this and be friends with me again already," at least that's how it came off to me. It felt like Kara was just telling Lena whatever she thought she wanted to hear to get Lena to bridge this gulf between them without Kara having to genuinely work on the relationship.

[Dobian]

10 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

The entire issue that Lena and Kara are having right now is predicated on Lena not knowing. If she did know, the core of the ongoing conflict would be gone. Lena can't understand Supergirl's behaviour because she doesn't know. If she did, the tenor of the conflict would be different.

At this point she would be resentful for Kara lying to her all this time about her true identity.  There would still be major trust issues.  I have a real hard time getting into all that, though, because it's so hard to suspend disbelief that Lena doesn't see the striking resemblance between Kara and Supergirl and that they have the same voice.  They should at least have had Kara wear a brunette wig or something.

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

Definitely, that's really the only part of the episode I hated, I've always hated when political B.S. is thrown into an episode but this one was just painful. Instead of worrying about family or friends that might be in danger or getting arrested for being a vigilante if he outed himself (not to mention all the possibly unintentional "coming out of the closet" undertones that the whole scene had) he goes on this tangent about being black that comes out of nowhere. Not that Guardian has actually done anything to piss off any supervillains or notable criminals since his creation so nobody he knows would be in danger anyway.

Actually, they spent a few episodes after the whole "aliens are everywhere on Earth" thing was revealed to the world (I forget exactly when that happened) basically using extra-terrestrial aliens as a metaphor for racism and immigration. THAT was handled a lot more organically than James' tangent this episode.

Worrying that friends and family might be in danger should have been on last week's Arrow episode when Oliver outed himself rather than here.  James doesn't have family in National City and as far as we know, National City doesn't have an anti-vigilante law so he wouldn't have been in danger of being arrested.  What he was scared of was being dismissed because of something he has no control over.

Instead of "political B.S.", I'm going to re-frame that as "the B.S. that is political" in real life.  The story about being handcuffed as a seven year old happened to Mechad Brooks himself so that's real life.  There are plenty of examples of people, no matter how educated or accomplished, who have been treated badly based on the colour of their skin (I'm not going to get into specific cases because we're not supposed to talk about politics here).

The question is, what parts of real life should the show reflect?  There have been a lot of posts about Kara's and Lena's argument, based on what happens in real life and extrapolating how they should react to each other in that situation (i.e. there is no green kryptonite in our world but we're taking positions on their argument based on how we ourselves feel in our real relationships).  Where does line get drawn?

I think that art, even if it is just comic book TV, has a responsibility to expand our borders especially when it makes us feel uncomfortable. Even though I've done a fair amount of reading, I have no concept of what it is really like to grow up African-American in the US today. So while it wasn't the smoothest of scenes, I'm gad it was in the show.

[amass]

Comics are political. It’s what they began as and what they have always been... 

Here’s an interesting index I found http://mikegrost.com/polit.htm

 

Also - here’s a funny article from The Onion

https://local.theonion.com/man-prefers-comic-books-that-don-t-insert-politics-into-1822632404 lol

[mxc90]

Thanks to the Yankees for allowing me to catch this episode on demand now!

Lena can't tell Supergirl she doesn't have her in mind when she is coming up with anti Kryptonian devices. She 's been studying/making this stuff before Reign arrived.

Coville and crew jumped to a new false idol in a blink. No loyalty.

Coville and Tanya seem to know more about Krypton than Kara and Clark.

Catco has worse security than Star labs. Anyone can walk in with weapons and reach the top with no resistance. Nice to see acting CEO James was more concerned about Tessmacher's well being than the knocked out guard.

Arcade owner didn't call the police on My'rnn for breaking the equipment. That's progress.

James could make some change by using his status as acting CEO of Catco.

I don't get how Reign was created on Krypton to be a worldkiller but to Kara: Sam is considered her true self.

Ruby quickly falls for the "I'm from Mars" line. This girl will be "catfished" in a few years.

How did Mon El allow the girl to transform to the 4th worldkiller? Minutes before he showed his super speed. He could have easily separated her from the object with one strong push.

The bazooka from the town car was funny.

[Macktor]

On 5/21/2018 at 9:10 PM, KirkB said:

I guess it kind of comes with the territory of being a nearly indestructible uber-being.

If only that were true. She gets kicked around and beat up on a regular basis. Kara is the most non-super Kryptonian I think we’ve ever had on TV. Can we just call the show “Moderately Super Girl”?

 

On 5/22/2018 at 8:29 PM, AudienceofOne said:

But since nobody came to the obvious conclusion about solving this problem - which is TELL LENA

And, in fact, several characters made a point of telling Kara that she SHOULDN’T tell Lena, because reasons. 

Also, James? “No one knows Guardian is black”?? Have you seen that massive eye slot in your mask that does nothing to hide either your eyes or skin color? 

[KirkB]

56 minutes ago, Macktor said:

Also, James? “No one knows Guardian is black”?? Have you seen that massive eye slot in your mask that does nothing to hide either your eyes or skin color?

Wasn't that the very thing that let Cat figure out he was Guardian?

[iMonrey]

Quote

At this point she would be resentful for Kara lying to her all this time about her true identity.  There would still be major trust issues.  I have a real hard time getting into all that, though, because it's so hard to suspend disbelief that Lena doesn't see the striking resemblance between Kara and Supergirl and that they have the same voice.  They should at least have had Kara wear a brunette wig or something.

This is something that shows like this want desperately for us to hand-wave. The fact is, this gimmick just doesn't work in the modern era. Wonder Woman got away with it because in the 1940s it was widely believed nobody would look twice at a woman who wore glasses (and, let's face it: nobody was looking at her face when she was dressed as Wonder Woman). 

I'm a okay with a little hand-waving but this one is tough. Lena and Kara just spend way too much time together. Lena knows Kara's sister works for the DEO. If she can't put two and two together there's something seriously wrong with her. I think the show is just asking a little too much of us to ignore this.

[Cranberry]

The biggest thing for me is that Lena knows Mon-El is (was) Kara's boyfriend. Not Supergirl's, Kara's. She actually asked Supergirl at one point (during the episode where Lena was kidnapped and almost forced into marrying Mon-El) if she was aware that Kara was dating him. I mean. Don't ask me to believe she's that stupid (which the writers are doing; they insisted she hadn't put two and two together even at that point), because I can't.

[Lantern7]

Caught the episode On Demand because WPIX thought the Yankees were more important. They probably are, but still . . .

Here's the main conflict in my head.

[elevator]

Lena: . . .  seriously cannot stand Supergirl! So righteous! I'm trying to help her by stopping a "world killer." You'd think I'd create Kryptonite for the hell of it? Bloody hell, no!!

Kara (sweating) But . . . I mean . . . she is trying to look out for all of us.

Lena: Kara, you might be my best friend, though I don't have that many to rank. So I'll tell you and only you this: I get so upset when she brings up my brother. You think I ever mention her cousin at all???

Kara: Well . . .  maybe . . . I dunno.

Lena: Oh, Kara, I am ever so sorry to vent about that woman to you in a confined space. How have you been at Catco?

Kara: Great! I- . . . wait. I work at Catco?

Lena: (puzzled) Yes. You are a reporter, right? Last season, you started from scratch, annoyed that editor Snapper Carr . . .

Kara: I think I'd remember being a reporter along with the . . . other stuff.

James: (hanging upside down by his legs from above, because he's a friggin' man of action) Come on, Kara . . . you work at Catco, and I run it. Remember?

Kara: (scratching her head) But I only see you at the Dee Eee-

James: GAAAHHHH!!!!! (turning to Lena while continuing to hang) Hey, you.

Lena: Hello. (quick smooch) You know, I like this. I really do.

James: Yeah. It's gonna suck when you inevitably betray us all and go full Luthor on us.

Lena: Oy! I haven't decided on that yet!!!

I'm cutting Ruby slack, what with the woman she knows as her mother actually being an improvised cover story for a Kryptonian death plot device that's probably not going to survive in any form by the finale. I am getting tired of M’yrnn, mostly because he's in a sad situation. I'm guessing that there will be a miracle cure, and it will be chocolate cookies. I'd opt for obscene amounts of cocaine, mostly because it sounds so horrible as a remedy. The bit with him and Ruby with the foosball was sweet.

I'd like to see Mon outside of his union suit more often. Into regular clothes! Regular clothes! I know he's probably crashing at the DEO and doesn't need to dress human, but it gets a bit old.

[AudienceofOne]

People not recognising Supergirl or Superman when they're wearing glass is the central conceit of the whole show. Until they tell us a character knows, that character doesn't know. Also, I haven't seen any evidence Lena does. In fact, her behaviour in the last few episodes suggests she doesn't.

[JapMo]

On 5/23/2018 at 8:05 PM, Macktor said:

If only that were true. She gets kicked around and beat up on a regular basis. Kara is the most non-super Kryptonian I think we’ve ever had on TV. Can we just call the show “Moderately Super Girl”?

I think this has been one of the worst things for me about Supergirl this season (and I have a whole list).  When a viewer believes she deserved to get her ass kicked and her face pummeled AND SHE'S THE HEROINE, there's something wrong with the writing.   One of the most telling scenes relating to this came early this season, and I know you remember it.  When Morgan Edge made Supergirl "blink".  He looked at her sinisterly, and then laughed in her face.  She's got superpowers, but he's the one that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  Now if this scene would have been used for a reason, such as she had hit rock bottom in her confidence and her life sucked, or this incident made her spiral even more over the edge and doubt herself, whatever...it could have been used to advance her and maybe make her grow, which IMO she has not moved one iota the whole season.  But instead it was a one and done scene.  It would have been cool to see her stand up to her full height and give him such a menacing look that we would clearly see him shaking in his boots, realizing he'd overplayed his hand.  But instead, he totally controlled the situation and she meekly slunk away.  

[AudienceofOne]

1 hour ago, JapMo said:

Kara is the most non-super Kryptonian I think we’ve ever had on TV. Can we just call the show “Moderately Super Girl”?

 

1 hour ago, JapMo said:

I think this has been one of the worst things for me about Supergirl this season (and I have a whole list).  

It's not this season. She's been this way from the beginning. Have a look at some of my comments from season 1. I just stopped complaining about it because I couldn't be bothered anymore. She's useless. One of my main gripes about this "super feminist" show is that there's an underlying them that Kara is not as capable as Superman because she's a girl. They're trying to counter the 'lone cowboy' mythos of the superhero genre by having her work within a team. But by downgrading her powers and making her a bit dumb they just play into the same tired stereotypes they're trying to counter. Kara doesn't have a team because teamwork is better. Kara has a team because woman aren't as good as men and she needs so much more help.

[opus]

On 5/24/2018 at 10:43 PM, Lantern7 said:

Caught the episode On Demand because WPIX thought the Yankees were more important. They probably are, but still . . .

Oh, they definitely are....  :)

[Winston Wolfe]

On 5/25/2018 at 2:05 PM, JapMo said:

When a viewer believes she deserved to get her ass kicked and her face pummeled AND SHE'S THE HEROINE, there's something wrong with the writing.   

It's not just because she's been so fucking obnoxious this season.  It's also because Kara literally CANNOT win a fight.  She was knocked off her feet 20 seconds into yesterday's climatic fight scene - by an opponent that had just acquired her super-powers.  Here's the choreography for a typical SG fight:  Kara makes dramatic entrance.  Lands one or two solid punches.  Obligatory use of Heat Vision.  Then gets tossed around for the next five minutes like a rag doll.  Then, on the verge of defeat, makes a plaintive, urgent plea to the baddie of the week, speaking to his/her humanity.  Then the Deus-ex-Machina of the episode comes, ending the conflict.  Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Winston Wolfe