S06.E09: Jennings, Elizabeth

[jjj]

With Philip and Elizabeth separated for the entire episode, each one has very significant information that the other does not have.  Elizabeth knows she burned the bridges to the KGB by killing Tatiana after refusing to kill the diplomat, and further burned the bridges by telling all this to Claudia and saying "go home, there is still time for you to get out".  Elizabeth must have known as she said this that it was the only path forward for herself, also (and Philip).   Philip now knows the FBI is onto to him (well, someone who looks like he looked in the park) and that Andrei is in custody by now.  But neither one knows they are now actively in deep shit on both sides.  

I would expect that Philip's emergency bugout plan would also include a call to "Joan" with a coded message indicating what the FBI had discovered (Andrei, and almost Philip).  But Philip could not know that Elizabeth had already poisoned the KGB well.  It was dramatic to end with Claudia thoughtfully sipping her last bowl of soup, but I would have dived for the phone the minute Elizabeth closed the door, to relate what had happened at the summit.  

So, as we have said above, on the shit list of both the KGB and FBI, but neither Elizabeth nor Philip has all the pieces of this.  

How different would this show be in the cell phone era.  Many burner phones, totally different lines of communication and alerts.  

[dubbel zout]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But did he get confirmation on Tim as well? Like does he think Tim knows--if he does Stan could probably threaten him. Does he thinks Tim is working with them?

I don't think Stan thinks Tim is working with the Jennings, especially since Tim is in Buenos Aires. Stan needs to get the illegals that are in the U.S.—across the street! Heh. Tim would be a lesser priority right now.

My interpretation of the scene with Tim and Stan is that Tim's reluctance to say anything about Elizabeth and Philip confirmed to Stan that his instincts about them are correct—they are worth further investigation.

3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Once the FBI figures out that Philip and Elizabeth are spies, they are going to go after Henry.

Who would get to NH faster, D.C.-based agents or agents from Boston (I assume that's the closest field office)? Either way, I think it's a close call whether the FBI beats Philip and Elizabeth.

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

That's something that never rang true for me. Why did they have to tell Pastor Tim the truth when it would have been so easy to smile, or look concerned and lie? 

I think for the sake of plot someone had to find out about Philip and Elizabeth. The stakes needed to be raised. Telling Pastor Tim was a smart move by the writers. His job demands that he keep secrets, and now he has a whopper. He has a real moral quandary both keeping the secret and telling it.

21 minutes ago, jjj said:

But neither one knows they are now actively in deep shit on both sides.  

Philip calling Elizabeth with the GTFO code should indicate to her that he's in deep shit, but yeah, I doubt either of them realize just how badly things are falling apart.

[MisterBluxom]

28 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Are you saying that Paige needed mood altering drugs to confront her mother so strongly? She's done that plenty of times before. This was far from the first and only time in her life. Paige has always been confrontational.

I can't remember any other time that Paige ever call her mother a "whore". Or was ever confrontational to that degree. Or even shouted at her with that level of volume. Or even half of that degree of anger. It all seemed to me like the very first time. But if I am mistaken, please feel free to tell me.

[sistermagpie]

Just now, MissBluxom said:

I can't remember any other time that Paige ever call her mother a "whore". Or was ever confrontational to that degree. Or even shouted at her with that level of volume. Or even half of that degree of anger. It all seemed to me like the very first time. But if I am mistaken, please feel free to tell me.

She never had reason to call her a whore but she's been plenty confrontational and shouted and shown that much anger. In the first season she challenged her mother over the separation, saying it was her fault because she was always "too hard on Dad." She told her parents they could make her do what they wanted but they couldn't control her thoughts. She yelled at them about how it was absurd to suggest they would ever live in Russia. She told them they didn't help anyone when defending her giving all her money to the church. She confronted them in the kitchen and demanded they tell her the truth. She loudly got angry about their lies to the point that Elizabeth tried to smother her mouth with her hand.

Open confrontation is one of Paige's favorite moves. She's older now and confronting her mother about something more thought-out than ever. And she still ended the scene making a crumpled face and walking out as she has more than once.

[jjj]

12 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Philip calling Elizabeth with the GTFO code should indicate to her that he's in deep shit, but yeah, I doubt either of them realize just how badly things are falling apart.

I like the "GTFO code"!  I meant that from Elizabeth's perspective, her first thought would be that the KGB/Centre had done something to shut them down and hunt them down, because she already knew that she had thrown herself to the wolves.  She had no idea the FBI threat level had also gone to bright red.  

[hellmouse]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

17 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Not saying much about them personally isn’t a big deal. If you don’t know someone well, then there’s not much to say. I didn’t think Tim’s tone of voice gave away much either. But- if nobody seems to feel like they really know them- that’s a bit different. Of course, some people are just private. But it could also be seen as one more thing. 

I feel like I could be describing Stan a bit too. 

Right, just like the Thanksgiving thing!

I think that's what it is too. Because Stan already has this idea in his head that Philip and Elizabeth aren't real people. So when he talks to somebody about them he wants something that dispels that idea. And nobody can give it to him. Tim is the only person he remembers as a personal friend and yet he gives him nothing.

Henry unwittingly gave him the same thing. In his case he knew their habits but couldn't explain them. ...

They are a lot like Stan--although Stan also has an ex-wife, people he worked with in Arkansas, an dead ex-partner. Most of Philip and Elizabeth's lives are lived in the shadows so Stan can't even see them having a history.

I have been thinking about this conversation since I read it yesterday. As a viewer, I know that Philip & Elizabeth have very full lives. They are running multiple operations, coordinating with intelligence officers from other countries, and raising their children. But the only people who know them as Philip & Elizabeth are really only those who have to. The travel agency employees and customers; the kids' teachers; the parents of the kids' friends. They only are "friends" with the Beemans and Pastor Tim & Alice because of the threat they represent to their family. Even if Philip does become friends with Stan, he never forgets that he's working him. I remember Henry being amazed when Elizabeth said a friend had been teaching her Korean cooking. He didn't think she had friends. And of course, she doesn't. She's too busy to have actual friends as Elizabeth Jennings. 

When you step back and look at them without knowing their full lives as spies, then they do become kind of strange. Especially with both of their kids out of the house. Their children and the travel agency provided a good cover. Just the travel agency is not enough. There's something missing, and Stan senses it.

It's fascinating - I had never considered it that way before! 

[MisterBluxom]

17 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

She never had reason to call her a whore but she's been plenty confrontational and shouted and shown that much anger. In the first season she challenged her mother over the separation, saying it was her fault because she was always "too hard on Dad." She told her parents they could make her do what they wanted but they couldn't control her thoughts. She yelled at them about how it was absurd to suggest they would ever live in Russia. She told them they didn't help anyone when defending her giving all her money to the church. She confronted them in the kitchen and demanded they tell her the truth. She loudly got angry about their lies to the point that Elizabeth tried to smother her mouth with her hand.

Open confrontation is one of Paige's favorite moves. She's older now and confronting her mother about something more thought-out than ever. And she still ended the scene making a crumpled face and walking out as she has more than once.

Yes. I remember most of those - especially when E tried to shush her by covering P's mouth with her hand.

Thank you for reminding me.

Edited May 26, 2018 by MissBluxom

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, hellmouse said:

When you step back and look at them without knowing their full lives as spies, then they do become kind of strange. Especially with both of their kids out of the house. Their children and the travel agency provided a good cover. Just the travel agency is not enough. There's something missing, and Stan senses it.

It's fascinating - I had never considered it that way before! 

I hadn't thought of it like that either until this thread. Stan's seeing these people who look like the people he couldn't be when he moved in. Their family is very real, the way they interact with their kids etc. But after all these years he probably is now realizing that something always seemed to be missing because it's not like there's the sense that Philip and Elizabeth are making up stories for themselves, like telling stories from college etc. (Though they probably have some they made up.) Stan's closer to them than any other American ever has been--that is, close to their Jennings personas. For a long time he needed them so much he couldn't see it--he even wanted to be family with them when he imagined Paige and Matthew together.

Maybe that's another reason he suddenly got suspicious when he noticed Philip clearly having emotions Stan had no way of putting in context. He's probably literally never seen Philip having serious emotions before even when he was separated from his wife. That might have made him start thinking about how well he knew him, what emotions he has--and realized he never really shows a lot to him, that nothing's ever really happened to him to get emotional about. Maybe that's another reason his connection to Sandra seemed so strong, that Philip was actually talking about his real emotions with her. I almost wonder if Stan would wonder about Sandra now, given that past confrontation.

ETA: I forgot something I wanted to throw out. I was re-watching the conversation Philip has with Father Andrei. The priest says, after Philip says that Elizabeth thinks he broke some of his vows by not being as honest as he should have been, that Elizabeth is someone who doesn't trust easily so there must be something else worth staying for.

Does anyone have specific ideas for what that something is supposed to be? Does he just mean love? It just seemed like a little riddle I wasn't getting. Philip replies that maybe there is but she thinks bigger than that, she thinks about the whole world. Were they just saying that Elizabeth must love him and Philip says that's not enough for her? It just seems like a confusing exchange to just mean love.

Edited May 26, 2018 by sistermagpie

[jjj]

14 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

ETA: I forgot something I wanted to throw out. I was re-watching the conversation Philip has with Father Andrei. The priest says, after Philip says that Elizabeth thinks he broke some of his vows by not being as honest as he should have been, that Elizabeth is someone who doesn't trust easily so there must be something else worth staying for.

Does anyone have specific ideas for what that something is supposed to be? Does he just mean love? It just seemed like a little riddle I wasn't getting. Philip replies that maybe there is but she thinks bigger than that, she thinks about the whole world. Were they just saying that Elizabeth must love him and Philip says that's not enough for her? It just seems like a confusing exchange to just mean love.

I think Father Andrei was just saying that Elizabeth must have a deep connection with/to Philip to continue to stay with him, because he (Andrei) senses she hardly trusts anyone.  So, at the heart of their marriage, even when they are violently disagreeing and even betraying each other, they are connected through some core level of trust.  

[Cardie]

16 hours ago, jjj said:

Just realized that the video "The Garage" will have massive late fees.  Good luck collecting. 

Ah, well, in a couple of decades both video stores and travel agencies will have been consigned to the ash heap of history.

[preeya]

7 hours ago, rhys said:

I was hoping P& E would mail enough cash to Henry to pay for his remaining time at his private school.

When the shit hits the fan for P & E I don't think Henry will be in private school any longer.  Afterall he is the son of Russian spies, and will likely be taken into custody, even if Beeman is his surrogate father.

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I can't remember any other time that Paige ever call her mother a "whore". Or was ever confrontational to that degree. Or even shouted at her with that level of volume. Or even half of that degree of anger.

Recalling Paige's curiosity about spies using sex some episodes back, I wouldn't be surprised if her anger was due not only to the fact that Elizabeth misled her, but that she had bedded a young man the same age as Paige.  That alone might have grossed her out to the point that she had no respect for Mom anymore.

Quote

Just realized that the video "The Garage" will have massive late fees.  Good luck collecting. 

Poor Stan will find the tape after it's all over, and go into Blockbuster to get more evidence, and the clerk will run it through, but says, "Before I can see who rented it, that will be $25 in late fees."

[jjj]

4 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Recalling Paige's curiosity about spies using sex some episodes back, I wouldn't be surprised if her anger was due not only to the fact that Elizabeth misled her, but that she had bedded a young man the same age as Paige.  That alone might have grossed her out to the point that she had no respect for Mom anymore.

I think there are several levels of disgust on Paige's part, and one of them, not discussed here yet, is that no one told her that *she* might have to learn to use sex as a hook/weapon.  She did ask about this a few episodes ago, based on her reading, and as noted above, Elizabeth said, "well, maybe other spies do that, but not our kind."  Who knows, Paige might even have been on board, based on her idea of seducing the intern to get access to classified documents -- but finding out this is real is a different thing.  "Wait, someone is going to order me to sleep with some schmuck?  Wait, I have to learn to *kill* people?"  I realize the plan was to get her into a desk job, but if she was going to be in operations for the Centre, she would need to know all this.  I just thought they were grooming her to get a good education and good access in the State Department, but this season made me wonder why they were putting her reputation at risk by putting her in missions.  To me, this is part of what was not well written.    If you want Paige to be able to pass a complete background check, keep her off the mean streets of Spy Boulevard.    

[SusanSunflower]

Agree, I have been waiting for Paige to be asked to do something she doesn't want to do.   She still thinks this is all voluntary and volitional .... you honeypot someone to get " information", prefereably important information, not because you need some smuck to deliver a box with a recording device to a meeting room ... I'm not sure if there was a plan B, but so far -- to my memory -- we haven't seen Elizabeth having to bed some Harvey Weinstein monstrosity/satryr/smuck/gamesplayer; most of her marks aside from being "normal" were flattered by E. attentions. (was there rough-stuff with one?)  I did think of that back with Claudia -- how to get out of a chokehold when you're on your back in a hotel bed -- sex work can be dangerously unpredictable.   The audience may lap it up but it's still degrading, no matter how victorious E usually seems "after" downing her prey. 

"It's in the job description" 

Edited May 27, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[whiporee]

  3 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

Another star in the constellation of things the finale is maybe too short to fully deliver on! If we’d ever imagined how Henry would react learning the truth now his reaction (if it’s shown) will come under extreme duress. Oh, you’re spies? Oh, Paige has known for years? Oh, I have to leave my life behind? Oh, we’re in extreme danger? I have a hard time imagining them writing that scene so the only alternative I can imagine is there’s not a version of it.

I keep imagining that of course Henry would assume his father did something stupid to get money for the agency. So I keep imagining Philip explaining, "Yes, I'm in big trouble. The FBI is chasing us. We have to flee the country. No, it has nothing to do with the travel agency."

And Henry just being like, "Good lord, Dad, how did you manage to get into big financial troubles and ALSO become the FBI's most wanted for totally unrelated reasons? Like, that takes a special skill for fucking up, doesn't it? How hard did you look for trouble?"

I think the decent thing here for Phillip and Elizabeth to do is to go to Paige and Henry, give them as much money as they can and tell them to go to Mr. Beeman and tell him what happened. Paige doesn't have to admit to doing anything -- she didn't do anything but watch, really. Tell her to give up Claudia and anything else she knows.

It would be the hardest thing, but there's no future for them anywhere now. Best they can do is try to solicit mercy from the US, and save their kids. P&E can disappear to wherever -- probably separately -- and maybe the kids have a shot. I don't see any other way to salvage their lives.

[Penman61]

12 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I'd add a baseball metaphor, but it's early and I don't really know the game that well. I'm not a spy because I don't care for America's pastime.

This is EXACTLY what a spy would say...

[sistermagpie]

21 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

we haven't seen Elizabeth having to bed some Harvey Weinstein monstrosity/satryr/smuck/gamesplayer; most of her marks aside from being "normal" were flattered by E. attentions.

Beginning of this season she had just had sex with a very large old man who looked a lot like Weinstein.

Tbf, it seems like the idea with Paige was that the Centre just wanted a standard issue operative to use however they wanted while Elizabeth herself was convinced Paige wouldn't have to do any of this stuff. So she was just shielding her from all of it. The surveillance etc. was just important for her to know but it didn't mean she'd be sent out on dangerous missions. It's not like all their sources do this stuff. We can't assume Gregory or Charles Deluth were sent to sleep with women like Philip did. It's quite possible they did--I can particularly imagine Charles sleeping with people to get info. But Paige was never meant to be coming up with temporary fake IDs like Elizabeth who hung around a bar to sleep with some guy so Elizabeth just ignored that one of her most obvious assets was sex.

If Paige honeypotted someone it would probably be as herself so more like exactly what she was asking about with the intern rather than Elizabeth with her intern. So Elizabeth could just imagine it would be unnecessary. She wasn't going to be "broken in" like Elizabeth and Philip and trained to see their body as belonging to someone else and sleep with anything.

I didn't get the impression in this ep that Paige was primarily thinking that she herself would be sent out to sleep with people. If she thought that I think she'd have said something to that effect. Like they'd have written the scene with Paige saying, "How could you do this to me?" (Like when she asked if Elizabeth would ever send her away like her mother sent Elizabeth away.)

MMV but I got the impression Paige saw that as something she would never do so it still wasn't even a question of being asked. She was now just disgusted with what Elizabeth was--Paige was even ready to stick a halo on Philip to make her look bad by comparison. When she talked about Elizabeth being "weird" about Brian I thought back to their argument about him where Paige said, "Why would I sleep with him if I didn't like him?" Like it never occurred to Paige that she could be sleeping with a guy just for info. She was that much in denial until she heard from the victim. (Btw, kudos the Jackson actor whose performance last week made this story totally believable!)

I also thought another important detail was when Paige said Jackson was falling over himself and throwing up and crying. Elizabeth didn't just sleep with him she destroyed him. It was hearing about the wreckage that woke her up.

Note that also Paige never asked why it was necessary. It was like the final proof that "the mission" or "the Cause" was always Charlie Brown's teacher noise to her. She wasn't Philip or Elizabeth truly weighing whether the ends justified the means. She was just playing spy and suddenly it wasn't fun anymore because people were getting hurt! And Mom was doing actual sex with people other than Paige's father!

[SusanSunflower]

Thank you for the correction ...

[jjj]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Beginning of this season she had just had sex with a very large old man who looked a lot like Weinstein.

That was what I thought at the time, also.  And she clearly detested having to sleep with that one; the opening scene of the season had her in the shower really scrubbing her crotch clean.  I don't think we ever found out why she was with that one; she was on to other leads for the summit.  That was when they were conveying her total weariness at all she was doing.  

If Paige thinks the job of using sex for information is with cute college guys whom she gets to choose, I can understand why she would be upset to find out how little choice is involved.   

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, jjj said:

That was what I thought at the time, also.  And she clearly detested having to sleep with that one; the opening scene of the season had her in the shower really scrubbing her crotch clean.  I don't think we ever found out why she was with that one; she was on to other leads for the summit.  That was when they were conveying her total weariness at all she was doing.  

If Paige thinks the job of using sex for information is with cute college guys whom she gets to choose, I can understand why she would be upset to find out how little choice is involved.   

Seeing Paige's turnaround has crystallized something for me.  I never really understood how the second-generation program could really work.  There would be too many uncertainties with the motivation of the children and their abilities to spy.  It's not as if the children were being prepped from birth.  Maybe it was just a great-sounding idea, but the Soviets never came up with procedures. 

Paige actually demonstrated some ability to snoop around in early years, resulting in her confrontation with Elizabeth and the surprise reveal.  Then she told Pastor Tim, so they had her doing junior spy training by having her placate Tim and follow his every move.  She was not all in at that point until she saw the diary--which was really just random, created by the writers to satisfy the plot.  But in the end it demonstrates something important.

To me, this show is about the destructive power of secrets.  Secrets destroy the secret holder and they destroy the other people around them who somehow always know there's something they don't know.  Stan and Philip/Elizabeth are in parallel here.  Also, there is the corrosive effect of war/battle.  I can't imagine how hard it is to be a spy and always have to be on guard.  The closest I can come is this:  I am an attorney.  Sometimes I have to meet with clients who are somewhat difficult.  You have to be on your best behavior for several hours.  Or I have to appear at a hearing or court proceeding.  You have to mobilize your every fiber.  Your adrenaline is up.  After such events, I am drained.  That's because I am internalizing the problems of my clients, whose lives can be very negatively affected (I work in disability law).  I can relax afterward, though.  The spies cannot.

As a funny aside, yesterday I met up with some friends (a couple) who watch this show but had not watched Episode 9 yet, so I had to refrain from discussing it.  I was really kibitzing them about it.  I said, let's get out your phone now, and you can watch it.  I could not believe they had waited three days and had still not watched.  They claimed they had "no time" in the last three days. They had a watching ritual that they did not have time to complete.  Good grief, Charlie Brown.  They were actually talking about waiting until Wednesday and watching before the finale. 

What will I do without this show and this fun forum after next week!  Get a life, I guess. Thanks to all the regulars who have posted very thoughtful discussions.

Edited May 27, 2018 by GussieK

[SlovakPrincess]

I'm liking how the theme of this season seems to be characters asking themselves what is the big picture and the actual point of what they're fighting for.  We saw it with Philip's argument with Elizabeth when he revealed he'd gone behind her back.  We've seen it in the last two episodes with Elizabeth turning against the Centre's orders for the greater good of the USSR.  And we saw it with Oleg and Stan in Oleg's cell, where Oleg basically says "you should care about whether Gorbachev stays in power, you idiot!  Why would that not matter?!"  I hope that resonated with Stan, who was so focused on catching all the illegals and his new obsession with the Jennings that he maybe forgot about, y'know, world peace.

I cannot say enough about Keri Russell's acting in the scene where Paige confronted her.  Holly Taylor held her own, but this was a seriously great scene for Keri.

So ... Claudia's just gonna let Elizabeth live after all that?  I mean, I guess now that an assassination on Nestrernko has been very publicly thwarted, he'll have increased security and the Centre has lost it's chance to take him out.  So maybe it would be pointless to take out Elizabeth.  But ... damn.  I would not keep turning my back and walking away from Granny like that, Liz!   

The flashbacks to young Elizabeth ... kind of a sick joke for that woman to tell her to never "lose who you really are."  She was so young when she adopted a different identity, that this was just an impossible thing for Elizabeth to do.  She was also being trained to follow the Centre's orders to the letter and terrified to step out of line, and then scolded for leaving a comrade to die in the streets.  The woman seemed to basically tell her to use her own judgment better in the future, but after all the Stalin purges why would anyone risk it??  

The chase scene with Philip shedding his disguise was intense.  He waited, like, a half second later to take off that damn coat than I thought he should, though.  I was like "the glasses aren't the problem, get that giant green coat off!!  Aggh!"    

Is Father Andrei just not that bright?  Seriously.  "My colleague talked to the FBI, about me, probably.  Is that bad?  Am I in trouble?  Hey let's talk about your marriage before I actually alert you to the danger you're in."

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, GussieK said:

Seeing Paige's turnaround has crystallized something for me.  I never really understood how the second-generation program could really work.  There would be too many uncertainties with the motivation of the children and their abilities to spy.  It's not as if the children were being prepped from birth.  Maybe it was just a great-sounding idea, but the Soviets never came up with procedures. 

Paige actually demonstrated some ability to snoop around in early years, resulting in her confrontation with Elizabeth and the surprise reveal.  Then she told Pastor Tim, so they had her doing junior spy training by having her placate Tim and follow his every move.  She was not all in at that point until she saw the diary--which was really just random, created by the writers to satisfy the plot.  But in the end it demonstrates something important.

To me, this show is about the destructive power of secrets.  Secrets destroy the secret holder and they destroy the other people around them who somehow always know there's something they don't know.  Stan and Philip/Elizabeth are in parallel here.  Also, there is the corrosive effect of war/battle.  I can't imagine how hard it is to be a spy and always have to be on guard.  The closest I can come is this:  I am an attorney.  Sometimes I have to meet with clients who are somewhat difficult.  You have to be on your best behavior for several hours.  Or I have to appear at a hearing or court proceeding.  You have to mobilize your every fiber.  Your adrenaline is up.  After such events, I am drained.  That's because I am internalizing the problems of my clients, whose lives can be very negatively affected (I work in disability law).  I can relax afterward, though.  The spies cannot.

As a funny aside, yesterday I met up with some friends (a couple) who watch this show but had not watched Episode 9 yet, so I had to refrain from discussing it.  I was really kibitzing them about it.  I said, let's get out your phone now, and you can watch it.  I could not believe they had waited three days and had still not watched.  They claimed they had "no time" in the last three days. They had a watching ritual that they did not have time to complete.  Good grief, Charlie Brown.  They were actually talking about waiting until Wednesday and watching before the finale. 

What will I do without this show and this fun forum after next week!  Get a life, I guess. Thanks to all the regulars who have posted very thoughtful discussions.

 

Me too.  I think people may underestimate the stress of practicing law.  That's one reason that I have wondered how P and E avoid hypertension, ulcers and irritable bowel. 

I agree that keeping secrets may be destructive, but, from what we have seen with E and Paige, it seems that E knew that Paige was not really a person who can handle certain information.  Paige claims that she is incensed over being lied to, but, to me, if the honey trapping was explained to her earlier, she would STILL have had a blowup and acted all righteous about how that isn't right. She's always seemed to be too sensitive and highly moralistic, imo. Demanding to know the truth, when she couldn't handle it.   So, sharing all is not likely to help her, but, upset and depress her, sending her back into a bad mind state. 

Your friends have waited 3 days! Oh my....I can't imagine.  I think that I would give up sleep to see these last few episodes.  

I suppose that many will be around here for awhile after the finale.  There will be so much to discuss!  Then, I hope to find another drama that is worth so much attention.   

Edited May 27, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, GussieK said:

To me, this show is about the destructive power of secrets.  Secrets destroy the secret holder and they destroy the other people around them who somehow always know there's something they don't know.  Stan and Philip/Elizabeth are in parallel here.  Also, there is the corrosive effect of war/battle.  I can't imagine how hard it is to be a spy and always have to be on guard.  The closest I can come is this:  I am an attorney.  Sometimes I have to meet with clients who are somewhat difficult.  You have to be on your best behavior for several hours.  Or I have to appear at a hearing or court proceeding.  You have to mobilize your every fiber.  Your adrenaline is up.  After such events, I am drained.  That's because I am internalizing the problems of my clients, whose lives can be very negatively affected (I work in disability law).  I can relax afterward, though.  The spies cannot.

As a funny aside, yesterday I met up with some friends (a couple) who watch this show but had not watched Episode 9 yet, so I had to refrain from discussing it.  I was really kibitzing them about it.  I said, let's get out your phone now, and you can watch it.  I could not believe they had waited three days and had still not watched.  They claimed they had "no time" in the last three days. They had a watching ritual that they did not have time to complete.  Good grief, Charlie Brown.  They were actually talking about waiting until Wednesday and watching before the finale.

Good discussion on the destructive impact of secrets. It's hard to imagine just how difficult it would be to live your entire life never being able to be your real self, maybe not even inside your home.

I can't imagine willingly waiting that long - but then I am the one who TV cheated on her spouse when his work schedule would have delayed watching it together for that long.  Then I just had a lovely re-watch (keeping my mouth shut during it was tough though - going back to the secrets theme).

21 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That's one reason that I have wondered how P and E avoid hypertension, ulcers and irritable bowel. 

I agree that keeping secrets may be destructive, but, from what we have seen with E and Paige, it seems that E knew that Paige was not really a person who can handle certain information.  Paige claims that she is incensed over being lied to, but, to me, if the honey trapping was explained to her earlier, she would STILL have had a blowup and acted all righteous about how that isn't right. She's always seemed to be too sensitive and highly moralistic, imo. Demanding to know the truth, when she couldn't handle it.   So, sharing all is not likely to help her, but, upset and depress her, sending her back into a bad mind state.

Of the three, it's the irritable bowel that would really screw up their missions. ;)

I agree that Paige isn't really capable of handling the truth. I grew up with someone like her - he was not naive by any means - but when forcing us to spill an unpleasant truth he didn't really want to hear, went ballistic in a frightening Jack Nicholson sort of way (ironically).

[EtheltoTillie]

22 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I can't imagine willingly waiting that long - but then I am the one who TV cheated on her spouse when his work schedule would have delayed watching it together for that long.  Then I just had a lovely re-watch (keeping my mouth shut during it was tough though - going back to the secrets theme).

Ditto. I'm the one who purchased episode 8 on iTunes and watched on my phone so I could see it while in London last week. I was annoyed that I had to wait until after it aired in the Pacific time zone!  I actually considered face timing with my friend in NYC so she could aim the phone at the TV. LOL. I swear I am really not this crazy about any other show!  

[jjj]

12 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Ditto. I'm the one who purchased episode 8 on iTunes and watched on my phone so I could see it while in London last week. I was annoyed that I had to wait until after it aired in the Pacific time zone!  I actually considered face timing with my friend in NYC so she could aim the phone at the TV. LOL. I swear I am really not this crazy about any other show!  

I found that in Xfinity/Comcast, it is possible to watch when it airs in Eastern Time via TV GO, where many channels are on ET zone.  

Great posts this morning about the corrosive force of secrets!  

This is the only show I watch when it airs, except for news! 

Edited May 27, 2018 by jjj

[EtheltoTillie]

8 minutes ago, jjj said:

I found that in Xfinity/Comcast, it is possible to watch when it airs in Eastern Time via TV GO, where many channels are on ET zone.  ! 

Yes, but none of this works when you are out of the US. 

[jjj]

3 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Yes, but none of this works when you are out of the US. 

Sorry, I was referring to Pacific Time!  No, thank goodness for iTunes when traveling! 

[EtheltoTillie]

BTW, Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys should get lifetime achievement Emmys for this show. 

2 minutes ago, jjj said:

Sorry, I was referring to Pacific Time!  No, thank goodness for iTunes when traveling! 

Well, at least I did not have to get up early to watch the royal wedding!  

[SunnyBeBe]

My concern is that in my area we have been having really bad storms every day.  And, it's predicted to continue!  One day last week we lost power for a few hours. Yesterday, CABLE was out a couple of hours.  If this happens next Wednesday, I will LOSE IT!   I'm trying to get a backup plan......Let's see, without power, I can still watch it on my laptop, but, I won't have cable due to power being out. I suppose, I'll have to get into my car and check into a hotel that has power in order to see it!  And no.......I don't think I'm being too extreme.  lol   

[jjj]

34 minutes ago, GussieK said:

BTW, Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys should get lifetime achievement Emmys for this show. 

Well, at least I did not have to get up early to watch the royal wedding!  

Oh yes, the other show(s) I watch live are royal weddings. (!) And The Americans. I'd also get up at 3:00 AM to watch The Americans as it airs. 

Poor Stan, whatever else happens next week, he will not be able to get away from the case even at home,  because his bedroom looks out on what will be a very lengthy inventory and investigation of the Jennings' house.  When they took over Martha's apartment, didn't the FBI even melt down her ice cubes?  She also just had to walk away from her home with no chance to look back ? 

Edited May 27, 2018 by jjj

[jjj]

11 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

My concern is that in my area we have been having really bad storms every day.  And, it's predicted to continue!  One day last week we lost power for a few hours. Yesterday, CABLE was out a couple of hours.  If this happens next Wednesday, I will LOSE IT!   I'm trying to get a backup plan......Let's see, without power, I can still watch it on my laptop, but, I won't have cable due to power being out. I suppose, I'll have to get into my car and check into a hotel that has power in order to see it!  And no.......I don't think I'm being too extreme.  lol   

Oh, wow, I thought I was the only one that obsessive!  I'm saving my phone connectivity minutes in case the wifi goes out.  

[SunnyBeBe]

9 minutes ago, jjj said:

Oh, wow, I thought I was the only one that obsessive!  I'm saving my phone connectivity minutes in case the wifi goes out.  

That's just it.  I normally can use my phone anywhere, but, yesterday, when the cable went out, so did my internet connection on my cell.  Bizarre.

That's nothing.  Years ago, when I saw Plant and Page for the first time at the Garden, I got a hotel room at a hotel right across the street, in case, we couldn't get a cab, there was a terrorist attack and couldn't get to the venue, etc.  The night before our flight, I stayed at a hotel near the airport, so we wouldn't miss our flight, PLUS, I had the car loaded with supplies and gas, in case the flight was cancelled and we had to hit the road and drive it!  All worked out fine, but, I have no regrets as it was the experience of a lifetime. 

I think that the illegals were kinda that careful too in some cases.  Let's hope so.   If they are lucky, P and E have several bug out plans they can put into play.   I didn't count that money, but, hopefully, enough for travel to some location where they can get a plane or boat out of US control. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

The flashbacks to young Elizabeth ... kind of a sick joke for that woman to tell her to never "lose who you really are."  She was so young when she adopted a different identity, that this was just an impossible thing for Elizabeth to do.  She was also being trained to follow the Centre's orders to the letter and terrified to step out of line, and then scolded for leaving a comrade to die in the streets.  The woman seemed to basically tell her to use her own judgment better in the future, but after all the Stalin purges why would anyone risk it?? 

I wonder if that was the heart of the story exactly. Elizabeth's always followed orders to the letter and she relied on Philip to speak up when he thought that was a bad idea. Sometimes they wound up doing it his way. Elizabeth could let him handle that part. Maybe she'd almost repressed this memory or never thought about it because it was the one time that showed how impossible it was. She'd been told not to stop to help in this sort of case in the US. She'd been told to treat her training in Moscow as if she was in the US. Now here's this woman acting as if she made the wrong decision and that it should have been obvious. Her orders were clear...and yet it was assumed she'd understand the right thing to do was to ignore them.

So here she's in the same spot. She made a decision but there's no way for her to know for sure if it was the right one. It wasn't Philip's decision that she went with, it wasn't an order, it was her on her own deciding what to do and she doesn't know if she was right or whether it was an example of losing sight of who she was or finally finding it.

That kind of goes back to the conversations Paige has had with Philip since she found out the truth. Her mother always had an answer to her questions: Everyone lies. Everyone holds something back. Life isn't black and white. You have to be in this for life. Philip never had a simple answer to her question. His answer was always "Maybe" or "It's possible but I don't know how." Even the last conversation he had with her after the General died she asked how he dealt with horrible things and he said he didn't know. Even after the sparring session he didn't have advice. He just left her there utterly and easily defeated. We've never seen her spar or fight again.

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree that keeping secrets may be destructive, but, from what we have seen with E and Paige, it seems that E knew that Paige was not really a person who can handle certain information.  Paige claims that she is incensed over being lied to, but, to me, if the honey trapping was explained to her earlier, she would STILL have had a blowup and acted all righteous about how that isn't right. She's always seemed to be too sensitive and highly moralistic, imo. Demanding to know the truth, when she couldn't handle it.   So, sharing all is not likely to help her, but, upset and depress her, sending her back into a bad mind state. 

 

I always remember too, though, Philip telling Kimmy how her father sharing his secret with her could bring them closer--if she didn't betray him by telling. Obviously at the time that was also referring to Paige, but I feel like the show often shows how secrets work both ways. It brings people together--sometimes in truly intimate ways, but sometimes in toxic ways. Which is maybe why sometimes the spies share their secrets with strangers instead.

But with Paige, yes, she seemed to be a real study in someone with a passionate need to know the truth without having the personality to handle it. Or handle the lies. She told Kelly on the bus that she was sure whatever the secret was she could handle it, she just wanted to know. Instead she allowed it to takeover her life.

I guess that also gets into how you have to choose the right person for your secret. Pastor Tim, ironically, was an okay person for Paige to tell in some respects. Elizabeth isn't ashamed of her honeytrapping in general but she didn't want to tell Paige because she understood how she'd react. She's fine with Philip knowing about it because she knows he won't react the way Paige characterizes him in this ep. Likewise Philip didn't tell Philip about Oleg early on because when he broached the subject her reaction seemed so bad.

There's a suggestion that they should have told the truth anyway in retrospect, but that's just hindsight speculation. You can't really know the right thing to do.

I just had an unrelated thought--would Elizabeth suggest they avoid garages or safe houses because of what she did? The FBI was assuming Philip would run to a safe house or a garage but I wonder if they'd avoid those for any reason. It seemed like Elizabeth was taking license plates to use on their own car, for instance but maybe not. I just wonder if that would in any way give them an advantage. Philip was wearing a different coat when he called Elizabeth so he changed somewhere.

[jjj]

29 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I just had an unrelated thought--would Elizabeth suggest they avoid garages or safe houses because of what she did? The FBI was assuming Philip would run to a safe house or a garage but I wonder if they'd avoid those for any reason. It seemed like Elizabeth was taking license plates to use on their own car, for instance but maybe not. I just wonder if that would in any way give them an advantage. Philip was wearing a different coat when he called Elizabeth so he changed somewhere.

I assume Philip changed into a jacket he had in his car, rather than a garage.  I did keep expecting one or both of them to head to the garage and be caught there.  Again, the show surprised me after several weeks of talking about surveillance on garages.  

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That's nothing.  Years ago, when I saw Plant and Page for the first time at the Garden, I got a hotel room at a hotel right across the street, in case, we couldn't get a cab, there was a terrorist attack and couldn't get to the venue, etc.  The night before our flight, I stayed at a hotel near the airport, so we wouldn't miss our flight, PLUS, I had the car loaded with supplies and gas, in case the flight was cancelled and we had to hit the road and drive it!  All worked out fine, but, I have no regrets as it was the experience of a lifetime.

I totally relate. I was sent to do some software training in Europe, and I went with a backup presentation on a CD, just in case the software connections went down, made transparencies (remember those) just in case the computers went down, and print outs of the presentation - just in case the shipment I sent hadn't arrived.

34 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I just had an unrelated thought--would Elizabeth suggest they avoid garages or safe houses because of what she did? The FBI was assuming Philip would run to a safe house or a garage but I wonder if they'd avoid those for any reason. It seemed like Elizabeth was taking license plates to use on their own car, for instance but maybe not. I just wonder if that would in any way give them an advantage. Philip was wearing a different coat when he called Elizabeth so he changed somewhere.

I think he did go to a garage, though it may not have been under active surveillance at that time - as Aderholt marshaled the troops when they were actively chasing Philip, and they wouldn't have gotten to every one of their targets before he was out. But who knows, maybe they did?

I was wondering about the plates - but I think their plan could also include stealing a car rather than returning to one of the garages. Which, I think, is essentially what they did when they needed high end cars (without changing the plates - because they'd get them back before the owner missing it - did I dream that explanation?)

6 minutes ago, jjj said:

I assume Philip changed into a jacket he had in his car, rather than a garage.  I did keep expecting one or both of them to head to the garage and be caught there.  Again, the show surprised me after several weeks of talking about surveillance on garages.  

That could be. He still had it with them (bundled in his hands) when he got into the taxi. But we haven't seen the intermediate step. So it could have gone either way, I think.

[Penman61]

Message deleted.  I may be a spy.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Penman61

[FormerMod-a1]

10 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Fellow Pacific-Timer & Xfinity subscriber here.  Can you explain this a bit?  Feel free to message me.  Thanks. :)

Or take it to Small Talk.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Apparently, when they discover they have been detected in some way, they don't go to a garage, that we have seen at this point.  Maybe, there is a special call to Joan, as someone said above, that says it's urgent.  I guess if they find out the garages and the safe houses, then Joan's place will come too.  (Which I don't buy how they would find out those things.  How do you detect all those places when they are rented from private citizens? Doesn't make much sense, but, I'll buy it.)

I noticed that P called E from a payphone.  And, that was actually risky too, but, I suppose it's better than asking someone to borrow their phone, like in a store or business.  

Can you imagine what the employees at the travel agency are going to think?  I wonder if there are any instructions left for them?  I guess all their equipment and records will be seized and no last paychecks either! Bummer.  And then, when Stavos does get wind of what happened.....

[Fouts]

I may be off on this, but after watching it a second time, I had a slightly different take on the Stan and Pastor Groovy Hair phone talk.  Pastor Groovy seemed to make a careful distinction to Stan that Phillip and Elizabeth "weren't in the church."  Like they weren't really one of them somehow, they were other-ly--despite the once familiar family situation Stan knew they'd had...an exclusion way bigger and beyond simple church membership.  

Then Groovy made sure to paint Paige as an innocent, a great kid, "a part of the church," not an alien outside his norm.  Perhaps he included this part to Stan in the hopes that Paige would be treated with a measure of sympathy, given her parental circumstance, when the whole operation imploded.  As clearly seemed to be happening, given Stan's phone call out of the blue.  

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, Fouts said:

Then Groovy made sure to paint Paige as an innocent, a great kid, "a part of the church," not an alien outside his norm.  Perhaps he included this part to Stan in the hopes that Paige would be treated with a measure of sympathy, given her parental circumstance, when the whole operation imploded.  As clearly seemed to be happening, given Stan's phone call out of the blue.  

Oh yeah, I definitely thought he was making that us vs. them distinction. There's probably a lot of meanings to it. On one hand he's being smart to distance himself and the church from them. They're not members of the church. He didn't work with him. His church isn't working with them. He wouldn't know about them being spies. It was just their kid who came to his church without her parents. But also you can't hear that "not members of the church" as not sounding like they're "not one of us." They're the aliens and outsiders--despite Elizabeth going there a lot for a while and helping out and sitting through sermons. They were never one of them. But Paige was, so if Stan finds out Paige knew he should remember that.

It reminds me how when Stan originally questioned Curtis in S1 all we had to see was Stan say that he knew Curtis wouldn't necessarily like him because he's FBI, but he's pretty sure they're both Americans. Claudia made the same distinction about Elizabeth's American children (despite the charade of trying to make Paige Russian) right before Paige rejects Elizabeth and Elizabeth defends herself by saying she didn't grow up like Paige and neither did Philip.

There's a lot of things they have in common, as Oleg says, but they're still naturally on two teams.

[Dowel Jones]

17 hours ago, Penman61 said:

On 5/26/2018 at 6:35 AM, Clanstarling said:

I'd add a baseball metaphor, but it's early and I don't really know the game that well. I'm not a spy because I don't care for America's pastime.

This is EXACTLY what a spy would say...

But only if the opposing pitcher has a no-hitter going in the 8th inning...

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Apparently, when they discover they have been detected in some way, they don't go to a garage, that we have seen at this point.  Maybe, there is a special call to Joan, as someone said above, that says it's urgent.  I guess if they find out the garages and the safe houses, then Joan's place will come too.  (Which I don't buy how they would find out those things.  How do you detect all those places when they are rented from private citizens? Doesn't make much sense, but, I'll buy it.)

As I recall, they had some criteria that made sense at the time, but I don't remember it at all. Maybe something to do with the type of payments?

33 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

18 hours ago, Penman61 said:

On 5/26/2018 at 6:35 AM, Clanstarling said:

I'd add a baseball metaphor, but it's early and I don't really know the game that well. I'm not a spy because I don't care for America's pastime.

This is EXACTLY what a spy would say...

But only if the opposing pitcher has a no-hitter going in the 8th inning...

Whoosh! Right over my head! LOL As my kids say, I don't know much about sportskaball.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, plus Pastor Tim was saying that P and E were not MEMBERS, so as the Pastor he had no duty to check them out, vet them as Christians or whether they were actually what they pretended to be.  But, he also left himself an out, by saying that he didn't know what Stan was getting at, though, I would think it would be funny for him to later pretend that he didn't think Stan was curious about them being spies. I mean, Stan wouldn't be investigating them for child neglect or tax fraud, right?.  lol  He said something about he wasn't sure what Stan was getting at.  lol 

Edited May 27, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Penman61]

36 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, plus Pastor Tim was saying that P and E were not MEMBERS, so as the Pastor he had no duty to check them out, vet them as Christians or whether they were actually what they pretended to be.  

 

I've never been a church member.  Is vetting a potential member something a pastor does?  If so, what do they look for?  

Also, didn't Pastor GH lie outright when Stan asked about Philip & Elizabeth?  Sorry I don't have the exact dialogue handy, but didn't Tim, at best, lie by omission?  

Edited May 27, 2018 by Penman61

[Plums]

39 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Pastor Tim was saying that P and E were not MEMBERS, so as the Pastor he had no duty to check them out, vet them as Christians or whether they were actually what they pretended to be

pretty sure that's not a thing any church would do. The only thing official membership requirements as far as I'm aware, is paying dues/tithing. 

 

So in my rewatch, when I got to part where Philip is running, it occurred to me that of course, this was always going to happen. They planned for Philip to run away from the FBI in his endgame scenario from the start. Why else would we keep getting periodic reminders that Philip maintains an ability to run over the course of the series? Even the racquetball is a cardio workout. Just another blessing in disguise that he took the meeting with Father Andrei instead of Elizabeth. I can't see her having the endurance to outrun a couple of FBI agents, especially now with all her smoking. We don't even really see her exercise at all outside of training Paige. 

Now I'm trying to think of all the other seemingly innocuous, series long foreshadowing I may have missed but will make whatever happens in the finale seem obvious in hindsight. 

[Erin9]

12 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I've never been a church member.  Is vetting a potential member something a pastor does?  If so, what do they look for?  

Also, didn't Pastor GH lie outright when Stan asked about Philip & Elizabeth?  Sorry I don't have the exact dialogue handy, but didn't Tim, at best, lie by omission?  

There’s not much to joining a church if you want to join a church. The pastor doesn’t really need to know you at all to become a member. Basically- you say you’re devoted to doing the will of God.

Plenty of pastors don’t know members of their congregation that well or at all. Especially if it is a large church. And it depends on how active the member is in the church. Plenty of people just go to a service. 

Tim saying Elizabeth and Philip weren’t members was pretty meaningless to me. Stan, IIRC, isn’t religious himself. And he knew they weren’t too. Nothing notable there imo. 

I think Tim indicated he didn’t really know P and E that well because they were not involved in the church. Which is true. He knows they are spies, but I wouldn’t say he knows them well 

[Sarah 103]

23 hours ago, jjj said:

I like the "GTFO code"!  I meant that from Elizabeth's perspective, her first thought would be that the KGB/Centre had done something to shut them down and hunt them down, because she already knew that she had thrown herself to the wolves.  She had no idea the FBI threat level had also gone to bright red.  

If they end up in a car together, it's going to be one epic "so how was your day?" 

20 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Poor Stan will find the tape after it's all over, and go into Blockbuster to get more evidence, and the clerk will run it through, but says, "Before I can see who rented it, that will be $25 in late fees."

There wasn't enough yellow and blue for it to be a Blockbuster, plus he was renting a foreign movie and they were playing a classic movie in the store. It had to be an indie type of video store. 

19 hours ago, jjj said:

 I just thought they were grooming her to get a good education and good access in the State Department, but this season made me wonder why they were putting her reputation at risk by putting her in missions.  To me, this is part of what was not well written.    If you want Paige to be able to pass a complete background check, keep her off the mean streets of Spy Boulevard.    

I completely agree with this. It's been one of the biggest problems of the entire season. 

19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But Paige was never meant to be coming up with temporary fake IDs like Elizabeth who hung around a bar to sleep with some guy so Elizabeth just ignored that one of her most obvious assets was sex.

If Paige honeypotted someone it would probably be as herself so more like exactly what she was asking about with the intern rather than Elizabeth with her intern. So Elizabeth could just imagine it would be unnecessary. She wasn't going to be "broken in" like Elizabeth and Philip and trained to see their body as belonging to someone else and sleep with anything.

This is exactly right. The second paragraph is a great description of the way I think it was supposed to work. 

9 hours ago, GussieK said:

Seeing Paige's turnaround has crystallized something for me.  I never really understood how the second-generation program could really work.  There would be too many uncertainties with the motivation of the children and their abilities to spy.  It's not as if the children were being prepped from birth.  Maybe it was just a great-sounding idea, but the Soviets never came up with procedures. 

I think what we're seeing is them trying to come up with the procedures and once they figured it out, they would know what to do in the future. It seems like in the early 1980s someone got the idea to try, and Jared didn't work, but they figured they could try a different approach with Paige, and that worked slightly better (she didn't murder her entire family) but not by much. 

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I just had an unrelated thought--would Elizabeth suggest they avoid garages or safe houses because of what she did? The FBI was assuming Philip would run to a safe house or a garage but I wonder if they'd avoid those for any reason. It seemed like Elizabeth was taking license plates to use on their own car, for instance but maybe not. I just wonder if that would in any way give them an advantage. Philip was wearing a different coat when he called Elizabeth so he changed somewhere.

I've been immersed in spy books (from real life spies mostly) and spy youtubes etc.

Real spies would automatically assume and behave as if everything had been compromised, their friends, their phones, their safe houses, all of it.  They would not return to the garage of disguises.  They would use buses or steal cars, that is the safest way.  They would not use their own car, probably not even with switched plates.  (Elizabeth might use it right now, but only to get to one she could steal, say in a parking garage.)  The fact that they had a "go bag" with money, plates, weapons, clothing, and probably small disguise kits secreted away in their house, further indicates that they don't intend to stop at the garage.

They don't know how much the FBI knows, but they know they are blown, so from here on, they have to avoid everything and everyone familiar.  Since we do have a CIA guy on hand as co-writer?  I can't imagine him abandoning this basic protocol.  (Yes, he breaks rules sometimes, but this is a pretty HUGE rule that I don't think he would allow to be broken.)

That said, he will break it, at least in part, because of Paige and Henry.  Should they pick up Paige or Henry?  Of course not.  It's bad tradecraft (and will probably get them caught.)  Will they?  Yes, they are parents, which is an unusual situation for spies on foreign soil, without diplomatic cover.

We'll soon see what they do though!

[Erin9]

5 minutes ago, Plums said:

pretty sure that's not a thing any church would do. The only thing official membership requirements as far as I'm aware, is paying dues/tithing. 

You’re not required to do anything. You don’t have to pay dues or tithe. You’re encouraged to, but it is not required. You don’t have to do anything at all as a church member. 

[Sarah 103]

5 minutes ago, Plums said:

So in my rewatch, when I got to part where Philip is running, it occurred to me that of course, this was always going to happen. They planned for Philip to run away from the FBI in his endgame scenario from the start. Why else would we keep getting periodic reminders that Philip maintains an ability to run over the course of the series? Even the racquetball is a cardio workout.

This is brilliant! It works perfectly for thier cover because starting in the 1970s there was a health/fitness craze that extended into the 1980s. Philip jogging around the neighborhood would not have seemed odd or out of place in the late 1970s the way it might have in the early 1960s. I'm starting a thread devoted to call backs, foreshadowing, and similiar things.