S07.E20: Is This Henry Mills?

[jhlipton]

14 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm not sure why the curse breaking allowed them to run out of the closet. They got their memories, not superpowers, and their memories would have told them that Facilier had magical powers. I'd think they'd have been more likely to free Drew and run out of the closet to attack just some shady businessman. I guess they remembered that they're fierce warrior women?

Ella ran out wit a sword and Tiana ran out with something.  So the breaking of the curse got them weapons... somew

12 hours ago, Curio said:

The show was just clunky

Yet another motto of TSTW.

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

Given Gothel's ruthless nature, why didn't she just kill all these pesky characters off, so they wouldn't interfere?  

She didn't have a weapon that could penetrate their plot armor.

[Camera One]

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Ella ran out wit a sword and Tiana ran out with something. 

I was watching a clip and it definitely looked like a sword but it could have been a T-square drafting ruler.  I'm not sure what Tiana was holding.  

I didn't catch it originally but before they burst in, Dr. Facilier said to himself (as he looked at the voodoo dolls), "Goodbye Mother Gothel".  

So Dr. Facilier had the ability to defeat Mother Gothel and her ultra powerful Tree Nymph Coven of 8 magic all along?  Why didn't he tell Regina?  Why did he wait so long?

[HighQueenEB]

So, my fanwank logic for why Henry suddenly was disbelieving this episode when last episode he was definitely on the believing track is that when he and Jacinda kissed and nothing happened, no spell broken, it made him question the small sliver of belief that had started growing last episode.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, HighQueenEB said:

So, my fanwank logic for why Henry suddenly was disbelieving this episode when last episode he was definitely on the believing track is that when he and Jacinda kissed and nothing happened, no spell broken, it made him question the small sliver of belief that had started growing last episode.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

So like the anti true loves kiss. I like it. 

[Virtual]

So both Gothel and Facilier were defeated easily with a fell swoop... A little disappointing considering both were built up to not be, uh, terrible at magic, anyway (yet Gothel was defeated by someone who hardly used it). It makes me wonder what is going to happen in the final 2 episodes since the curse was also broken... Oh wait... Wish Rumple is in HH now.

We got an idea in 6x22 of how Rumple's Dark One pesters him, and when Emma was the Dark One in Season 5, it was the same for her. I wouldn't expect Wish Rumple's behavior to be different... And Rumple will be battling with him every step of the way because he doesn't want to jeopardize his "reunion" with Belle.

[jhlipton]

On 5/6/2018 at 3:07 PM, HighQueenEB said:

So, my fanwank logic for why Henry suddenly was disbelieving this episode when last episode he was definitely on the believing track is that when he and Jacinda kissed and nothing happened, no spell broken, it made him question the small sliver of belief that had started growing last episode.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Or Jacinda is so bland and blah, her kiss erases any trace of belief...

[Shanna Marie]

On 5/5/2018 at 2:09 PM, tennisgurl said:

Really, the weird, codependent relationship they have has just gotten increasingly creepy. And of course he gets TLK not with his wife, or his daughter, but...his mother. Freud would have a freaking field day with this relationship! Especially when he was holding her on the ground and kissed her, it really looked like SHE was his love interest, and not Jacinda.

And then there was the way they were clinging to each other during the big battle scene. They looked like reunited lovers, not mother and son.

Let's see, we had a mother having a fit of the vapors at the thought that her 18-year-old son might leave home to go to college instead of staying in his childhood bedroom and commuting. The one time in the flashbacks that Henry interacted with anyone else (Granny), as soon as Regina saw that, she found a reason to send her away so she'd be alone again with her son. In the present, after Henry gets his memories back, instead of kissing his daughter, he practically runs past her. Instead of looking for his wife--who is tied up and in danger at the moment--he runs to look for his mother, and it's a True Love's Kiss with his mother that breaks the curse. Then he and his mother cling to each other like lovers while the other characters deal with the villain.

I think that idea of a flashback scene with Henry and Hook Prime might have helped with this, showing Henry interacting with someone other than Mommy and in a man-to-man type situation. Like, Hook could have been watching him work on the car and handing him tools (and how do tools for working on a car fit into a lunchbox? I don't think most of my screwdrivers or my socket wrench set would fit into a lunchbox, let alone a real wrench) while they talked. Hook and Emma, who never really had homes and who were on their own very young, would have been quite a counterpoint to Regina's attitude (probably why they didn't show them). And Hook being in dad mode with Henry would have been a way of tying the flashbacks to the Rogers and Weaver side of the story, connecting Hook being a stepdad to Rogers coming to terms with being Tilly's father. But they were probably afraid audiences would be confused by the two Hooks and not realize that they weren't the same person.

[KingOfHearts]

Saw some of the clips I missed on YouTube, thinking I had missed a lot. But nope.

50 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

And then there was the way they were clinging to each other during the big battle scene. They looked like reunited lovers, not mother and son.

I laughed because it was so cringey seeing Henry crying with Regina dying/dead/whatever in his arms. It looked like every death (or near death) scene ever. Oh the humanity. It's Regina's own darn fault for thinking she could kill Gothel, a woman who wiped out all of humanity, with a freaking baseball bat.

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But they were probably afraid audiences would be confused by the two Hooks and not realize that they weren't the same person.

As much as I'm glad to see Granny, she didn't have a point in this episode. I figured we would've seen a scene at Granny's Diner or something. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I laughed because it was so cringey seeing Henry crying with Regina dying/dead/whatever in his arms. It looked like every death (or near death) scene ever. Oh the humanity. 

I actually cried during that scene because I was so moved.

Just kidding, but I thought the actor actually acted for the first time this season in this episode.

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As much as I'm glad to see Granny, she didn't have a point in this episode. I figured we would've seen a scene at Granny's Diner or something. 

This is the problem with these Writers.  On this show, a cameo is literally a cameo, like the actor is standing there and that's it.  They could have used the Granny actress for something more meaningful for six seasons, but they never did, so this was no exception.

[KingOfHearts]

4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

They could have used the Granny actress for something more meaningful for six seasons, but they never did, so this was no exception.

Have we ever even seen Granny work on cars or talk about them?

Edited May 8, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, KingOfHearts said:

Have we ever even seen Granny work on cars or talk about them?

Not at all.  Maybe she bought the mechanic shop after Gus died on her quest to own Main Street.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, it was cool seeing Granny, but to what end? Its like when they started getting bored of the Charmings and the rest of the supporting cast, and they just started getting random lines to fulfill their contractual obligations, and say "hey, see this character! They exist! Now, back to Regina!" over and over. 

[Rumsy4]

Regina orders Granny to go get them lunch like she’s some errand-boy. ?

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

Regina orders Granny to go get them lunch like she’s some errand-boy. ?

That was really rude, and in the past Granny would have told Regina to shove it.

[KingOfHearts]

22 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Regina orders Granny to go get them lunch like she’s some errand-boy. ?

Regina's such a bitch. She could get it herself or you know - magic some up. While she's at it, why make Granny fix the car when she could probably magically repair it?

Edited May 8, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

It's Regina's own darn fault for thinking she could kill Gothel, a woman who wiped out all of humanity, with a freaking baseball bat.

"She'll never see this coming!!!"  Oops.

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, jhlipton said:

"She'll never see this coming!!!"  Oops.

Regina: "How did you know I was here?!"
Gothel: "I'm not deaf. I heard your footsteps."
Regina: "Damn your overpowered witchcraft!"

[tennisgurl]

32 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Regina's such a bitch. She could get it herself or you know - magic some up. While she's at it, why make Granny fix the car when she could probably magically repair it?

Because she has to remind the peasants that she is the once and future Queen of all things, of course! Now go make me food before I turn you into a toad, or start crying about my backstory again! 

[KingOfHearts]

Just watched the first scene. I didn't see it when it aired. Regina was the Eighth Witch?! 

Also - I thought Regina wanted her "kale salad". She accused Emma of eating like a child for ordering grilled cheese, but here she gets some herself? Nice consistency.

Edited May 8, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Was that baseball bat enchanted with stuff from her cauldron or something?  If not, that was just stupid.

1 minute ago, KingOfHearts said:

Just watched the first scene. I didn't see it when it aired. Regina was the Eighth Witch?! 

Yeah, that made no sense.  How many "eighth witches" does Gothel need?  Why could the spell keep on going with the eighth spot empty?  

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Also - I thought Regina wanted her "kale salad". She accused Emma of eating like a child for ordering grilled cheese, but here she gets some herself? Nice consistency.

It's Roni, who has a completely different diet.  That's what makes this show so complex.

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

It's Roni, who has a completely different diet.  That's what makes this show so complex.

But it wasn't Roni. It was Regina back in Storybrooke.

[Camera One]

Just now, KingOfHearts said:

But it wasn't Roni. It was Regina back in Storybrooke.

Oh right, it was in that car scene with Granny.  I need to watch this again to keep everything straight.  :D

[KingOfHearts]

4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Oh right, it was in that car scene with Granny.  I need to watch this again to keep everything straight.  :D

We'll all be watching this again in about a year and a half. ;)

The 2017 reveal plugs some plot holes, but I would have rather known about earlier in the season and saw characters like Roni reacting to it. How would Rumple react knowing Belle was still alive in the same realm? Was Roni tempted to ask for help? Going back in time should be kind of a shocker to go through. Nobody cared that they time traveled?

Edited May 8, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I would have rather known about earlier in the season and saw characters like Roni reacting to it. How would Rumple react knowing Belle was still alive in the same realm? Was Roni tempted to ask for help? Going back in time should be kind of a shocker to go through. Nobody cared that they time traveled?

These are the interesting character responses which would actually have been interesting to explore.  But nope.

[KingOfHearts]

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

These are the interesting character responses which would actually have been interesting to explore.  But nope.

We're probably still going to get it, but I would have loved to see some shenanigans. Regina sneaking into her own vault to get magic. I know there's all this worry about preserving the timeline, but if it's a closed timeline like this episode implied, there wasn't much of a point. 

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Was that baseball bat enchanted with stuff from her cauldron or something?  If not, that was just stupid.

It was made from chopped and formed Honduran White Bats

[Camera One]

I know some of you are applying to colleges, so you should really analyze that wonderful personal essay that Henry wrote.

Quote

Sometimes, you have to leave home. And you've been there for so long, you don't know who or what you'll be outside of it. But then you realize every experience, every trial, every moment has shaped you. And you take that place with you no matter where you go next. I'm lucky. I have an incredible home. You won't find it on a map. But in it, you will find magic. You'll find love, hope and something to believe in. You'll find a family that fights for one another, who never gives up on each other. And even when they're separated by curse or distance or time they find each other. They always find each other. I wish the world could know the story of my family.  How it was all true.  How every moment of it happened. And you may think this is just a story. But that's the thing about stories. They're more than words. They live inside of us. They make us who we are. And as long as someone believes that there will always be magic. 

Can it be any more vague and generic?  That's putting a bunch of platitudes together in a paragraph.

And what was with the weirdly awkward arrangement of couplings at designated locations in the community garden?  You'd think there were "X"'s on the floor to tell them where to stand.  Oh wait...

[CCTC]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

That's putting a bunch of platitudes together in a paragraph.

This show has always had some corny dialogue, but it has been especially cringe-worthy this year.  Almost every word Regina says is a speech of platitudes or clunky exposition.  

I am assuming they did not have access to the interiors of the house they used for Regina's house in the past.  The living room seemed much more generic and less grand.  

[darkestboy]

Good episode, though both Gothel and Facilier are gone and we have Wish Rumple for the final baddie. Eh, not really keen to be honest.

I did like the way in which Henry remembered along with everyone else but it should've been done earlier in the season though.

Great scenes with both Henrys and both Henry, Regina and Lucy this week.

Naveen has been a poor addition to the season. Added nothing, character wise.

Good scenes with Alice, Hook, Gold and Robin though.

Looking forward to the last two episodes, 7/10

[tennisgurl]

17 hours ago, Camera One said:

Can it be any more vague and generic?  That's putting a bunch of platitudes together in a paragraph.

 

Thats clearly not the paper he used to get into, like, fifteen schools, because that was embarrassingly lame. Its like the first draft a junior does to practice before really buckling down for senior year. But, what else can we expect for the brilliant writer who gave the most generic belief speech in the history of the world in the middle of New York? 

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Thats clearly not the paper he used to get into, like, fifteen schools, because that was embarrassingly lame. Its like the first draft a junior does to practice before really buckling down for senior year. But, what else can we expect for the brilliant writer who gave the most generic belief speech in the history of the world in the middle of New York? 

It resembles the rest of A&E's writing - vague, superficial, and preachy.

(In all honesty I wonder how they even got through writing school.)

Edited May 9, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Replying to Henry:

Quote

Sometimes, you have to leave home.

Have to, or want to?  There's a difference.

Quote

And you've been there for so long, you don't know who or what you'll be outside of it.

You knew who you were in New York, in Camelot, in the Underworld, inside a book, etc., and it has never been a problem.

Quote

But then you realize every experience, every trial, every moment has shaped you.

Except for all those subplots that happen and then are completely ignored.

Quote

And you take that place with you no matter where you go next.

Unless you are Cursed and have implanted fake memories.

Quote

I'm lucky. I have an incredible home. You won't find it on a map. But in it, you will find magic. You'll find love, hope and something to believe in. You'll find a family that fights for one another, who never gives up on each other.

Like your grandfather who left you to die multiple times and even tried to kill you?

Quote

And even when they're separated by curse or distance or time they find each other. They always find each other.

If you didn't leave Storybrooke, you wouldn't have to be found.

Quote

I wish the world could know the story of my family.  How it was all true.  How every moment of it happened.

Why should the world know about the story of your family?  Why should they care?

Quote

And you may think this is just a story. But that's the thing about stories. They're more than words. They live inside of us. They make us who we are. And as long as someone believes that, there will always be magic. 

As long as someone believes "that"?  What's "that"?  

[KingOfHearts]

I don't know why the show even bothered to have Emma co-parent Henry or keep him in New York for a year. It's obvious the writers were only interested in Regina being the primary parent. She wasn't even mentioned when he was looking into colleges. Okay, fine - but the characters need to actually address that. We can't just pretend that both Regina and Emma have important roles in Henry's life. It's clear they don't share the same caliber. Henry wanting to stay with Regina over Emma would have created some interesting drama even if it didn't make much sense. I don't understand how ill-tempered Regina who gets offended at the slightest thing has a perfectly peaceable arrangement with Henry's birth mother. Regina defended her right to Henry like a bulldog, then somewhere along the way she gave up offscreen. (Yet somehow he's still her everything half the time.) I really doubt Regina would be the only one concerned with Henry's college plans unless over the past few years he has completely isolated himself from everyone else.

[Shanna Marie]

22 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Regina orders Granny to go get them lunch like she’s some errand-boy.

She didn't even phrase it like she was placing an order. It came across like "go make me a sandwich." Granny wasn't at work, where her job is making sandwiches when they're ordered. If Granny was helping Henry work on the car, she was off-duty. Regina could phone in her own to-go/delivery order. That's why I listed that scene among the creepy Regina/Henry relationship bits. She acted like a jealous woman trying to get Granny out of the way so she could have Henry to herself.

10 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I really doubt Regina would be the only one concerned with Henry's college plans unless over the past few years he has completely isolated himself from everyone else.

I know they couldn't actually have shown Emma for offscreen reasons, but she could have been mentioned as having a say, like "What did Emma say?" or "You should go show Emma your college acceptances." Or the scene with Hook I suggested, which could have been sort of Emma by proxy, with Henry talking to his stepfather and mentioning what Emma would say or where Hook said Emma stood on the matter.

Oh, adding to the list of creepy bits, when they were coming home from the graduation party, the conversation sounded like the way a couple might talk after they left a party, with kind of a vibe of "it's so nice to get away from that so we can be alone together."

[Camera One]

A&E said in an interview that the Henry we saw in the premiere was "a very different Henry" and this episode was supposed to explain that.  But he didn't learn anything that he didn't already know.  Right from the start of the episode, he wanted out of Storybrooke.  And then he didn't.  And then he did.  His "new" mindset was based on that creepy "I'm a friend of your mom" phone call.

Henry is 18 years old.  Why would he want to leave a party early just like Regina, who was still contemptuous of Grumpy even though they put Queen on her door.  

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Like your grandfather who left you to die multiple times and even tried to kill you?

But Gramps said that Henry was "always his favorite"!  TSTW

[AAEBoiler]

On 5/5/2018 at 3:09 PM, tennisgurl said:

I like Tilly/Robyn, and they're by FAR the best paring of the season, but I wish we could have established them more.

This! They're absolutely adorkable together!

[KingOfHearts]

Storybrooke College must have some interesting courses.

"Moral Philosophy 101: The Perils of Not Keeping a Secret"

"Feudalism vs. Capitalism: Firsthand Look"

Edited May 9, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Regina found out that Dr. Facilier helped get the poison out of Henry and Regina doesn't talk to Dr. Facilier at all even though they're dating?  She could have helped Facilier with whatever he was doing to defeat Gothel instead of trying to hit Gothel with a baseball bat.  Meanwhile, Dr. Facilier had magic but he could not even keep those "regular people" shut up in a closet?  He lost the magic he used to apparate Rumple away a few episodes ago?  

Edited May 9, 2018 by Camera One

[CCTC]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Storybrooke College must have some interesting courses.

"Moral Philosophy 101: The Perils of Not Keeping a Secret"

"Feudalism vs. Capitalism: Firsthand Look"

"Moral Philosophy 102: The Oedipus Complex - Your Mother Can Be Your True Love"

"Women's Studies 101:  How Your Love Can Cure Abusive Behavior"

[tennisgurl]

34 minutes ago, CCTC said:

"Women's Studies 101:  How Your Love Can Cure Abusive Behavior"

"Womens Studies 201: Its Not Rape If Your Say Its Not"

"World Government 101: The Pros and Cons of an Absolute Monarchy"

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"World Government 101: The Pros and Cons of an Absolute Monarchy"

Don’t you mean, “The Pros and Pros of an Absolute Monarchy"

[tennisgurl]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Don’t you mean, “The Pros and Pros of an Absolute Monarchy"

"The Happier Side of Dictatorships." Taught by Professor Mills. 

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

"Womens Studies 201: Its Not Rape If Your Say Its Not"

Lecture 1: The art of heart-control

Lecture 2: They have free will even when you control them

Lecture 3: A Queen deserves to be worshipped

Lecture 4: The essence of victim-blaming

Lecture 5: How to live with No Regrets

[tennisgurl]

4 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Lecture 5: How to live with No Regrets

"How To Win Friends While Also Murdering People" is the required reading. 

[ParadoxLost]

Criminal Justice: There's no Justice for Criminals

College Math: A dark curse plus time travel equals you are the same age as your parents.

Basic Math: Remedial timelines

Trigonometry: No one is right in this triangle, well except Regina

Anthropology: The study of Victorian England in the middle ages

Information Technology: Magic Books and how to write them

Anatomy: The heart, an extraneous organ

[tennisgurl]

"Archaeology 101: How To Miss An Entire Civilization Buried Under A Bunch Of Plants"

[KingOfHearts]

LOL.

You guys seriously write more entertaining things than A&E. (Though, to be frank, a drunk could write something more compelling on a napkin than they could on a whole script.)

[Camera One]

I forgot how the Curse broke so I rewatched the climatic scene of this episode by jumping ahead in the video.  Out of context, the Henry/Regina TLK did look uncomfortably like a scene between lovers, as suggested above.

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I forgot how the Curse broke so I rewatched the climatic scene of this episode by jumping ahead in the video.  Out of context, the Henry/Regina TLK did look uncomfortably like a scene between lovers, as suggested above.

I really hate how Andrew J. West acted that. It looked like every scene of someone's lover dying in their arms. I actually missed the curse breaking when I watched live. I watched it later, thinking I missed lot, but nothing made any more sense after I saw everything.