S07.E20: Is This Henry Mills?

[formerlyfreedom]

Roni enlists Lucy's help to wake Henry, but things don't go as planned. Meanwhile, Rogers and Weaver go to Margot in hopes of getting through to Tilly. In a flashback, Young Henry struggles to decide what path to follow until a mysterious phone call helps put him on track.

 

[Worsel]

Overall this was a much better episode than last week.  I liked that Henry was able to have a true love kiss with Regina to break the curse, and that Tilly used love to defeat Gothel.  In particular Lana’s acting was excellent, her emotion in all her scenes with young and old Henry was wonderful.

 

Best of all: Wish Realm Rumple is sharing screen time with original Rumple!  I can’t resist sparkly Rumple in all his evil glory.

 

I wonder how Regina managed to exhume Victoria by herself with no heavy equipment.

[Guest]

Quote

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 9:43 PM, ParadoxLost said:

This sounds like the Hyperion Heights curse had a time travel spell twist.  That would give them the loophole that they can't contact Storybrooke because it is 2017 there and Henry is there and so is Regina and anything they do to contact anyone in Storybrooke might change their past.

Basically the problem Captain Swan was trying to solve when they interfered with Snowing's meeting in the past.

Welcome to the part of the night where I say....called it. 

I believe about ten minutes later we had the conversation that it still doesn't explain the wonky timeline. 

[KingOfHearts]

I hated most of this episode because of Regina and Henry.

But then Tilly had her epic moment and Wish Rumple came out of nowhere. Now I'm happy.

[scenicbyway]

So Regina and Henry can have a TLK but Hook and Emma never did?  Whatever, so glad I up on this show last fall.

[Rumsy4]

17 minutes ago, Worsel said:

Best of all: Wish Realm Rumple is sharing screen time with original Rumple!  I can’t resist sparkly Rumple in all his evil glory.

I predicted Wish Rumple would play a part several episodes ago. But at least part of my guess turned out right. haha Rumple vs Rumple ought to be good. I really felt back in Season 6 that Rumple should’ve been the final villain. But they chickened out with him. At least we get Wish Rumple being the Biggest Big Bad Ever! :-p

Good riddance to two of the lamest villains of the Show tonight. 

Loved all the Tilly/Rogers/Margot/Weaver scenes. But really, did everyone have to reunite so happily when one of their supposed friends was in a stretcher? OUAT is tone deaf with these kinds of things.

Why couldn't Emma have magically battled and defeated the Black Fairy like Alice did Gothel tonight? Ugh.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Worsel]

4 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Good riddance to two of the lamest villains of the Show tonight. 

It really is a shame the villains weren't that great. Gothel as a character was pretty lame but Facilier had more potential, the actor did a good job but writing was lacking.

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, Worsel said:

but Facilier had more potential,

I do think he had more potential. But he was kind of...pointless, and fizzled out in the end. I don't get why he was even there except to temporarily give Regina yet another love interest who dies.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

Storybrooke has a college now? I really doubt it's accredited. 

[Rumsy4]

And it's called "Storybrooke College". Very clever. :-p

[Guest]

Just now, KingOfHearts said:

Storybrooke has a college now? I really doubt it's accredited. 

That cracked me up.

Is it just me or was Wish Rumple's make up all wrong? 

[Worsel]

Just now, ParadoxLost said:

Is it just me or was Wish Rumple's make up all wrong? 

His makeup seems to change from time to time; maybe the Wish Realm appearance is different from the original in order to distinguish between the two.

[Shanna Marie]

I had very mixed feelings about this one. I liked the resolution of the Gothel storyline, with Alice choosing love over hate, WHook willing to potentially sacrifice himself to hold his daughter's hand, and a rather fitting ending for Gothel. It's just a pity that most of this came out of the blue in the last couple of episodes without a lot of development. The only part that was really set up well was Alice and her father and their situation. While I like Margot (less so Robyn, unfortunately) and like Margot and Tilly, we hadn't seen enough of them together to really support the impact that relationship had here. And Gothel still makes no sense at all. I'm convinced that they created her goal and backstory just for the last episode. Otherwise, wouldn't she have been courting her daughter earlier, maybe been playing tug-of-war with Whook over her? If they were just going to drop all the Cinderella-related stuff and have it not matter, they could have devoted all that screen time to the real plot.

The Henry side of the story was rather infuriating. First, there's that creepy relationship, with Regina freaking out over the idea of her son actually leaving home to go to college. Second, there's a huge timeline issue because if Hyperion Heights is supposed to be in the present, Henry would at most be a high school sophomore this year (and one of the producers even addressed the fact that Henry leaving home happened in the future at the beginning of the season when a viewer commented that he would have to be a high school dropout if it were in the present. I guess it was the future, but months into the future rather than years). And I don't think enough time has been accounted for on the episodes to get them from the Halloween-set episode that aired around Halloween to May. And then there was what more or less amounted to an Emma erasure. Yeah, they showed her picture in the book and there was an offhand remark about calling her, and I know they didn't have her available to actually appear in the episode, but they could have at least pretended to acknowledge that Henry does have another parent and supposedly split time between the homes. They could have referred to what Emma wanted or expected him to do, and since they did have access to Colin, they could have had Hook Prime make an appearance as Henry's stepfather to provide at least a little link to Emma. Henry could have had a man-to-man talk with Hook (which would have tied into Hook being prepared to reassure Emma about being able to stay in touch with Henry back at the beginning of the season). It's also a bit odd that his big revelation was that home is where his family is -- and then he completely ditches a big chunk of his family, and he has a sibling he doesn't seem to have ever met.

They really couldn't resist another TLK between Regina and Henry. For more Emma erasure, they made it sound like it was Henry being a believer that made the kiss break the first curse, rather than Emma being the Savior. I don't think it was the book that made Emma believe, either. She was already believing. That's why she got the book. She did get the burst of magic from it, but she looked at the book because she'd realized it was all true. Henry got his memories back from the book, both here and in 3B. Memories are different from belief, though you're going to believe something happened if you remember it. Emma had no memories to bring back. Anyway, the resolution to the curse was rather boring and repetitive, and all they broke was the memory spell and lack of magic. If this curse was more difficult to break, it should have been something new or different, not the exact same thing that worked before.

Oh, and Henry's "real" college essay was almost as cringeworthy as his fountain speech. I don't think he'd have had so many acceptances if he'd used that one, and not because of the bit about magic being real. More like because it sounds like something a fourth-grader would write for a class assignment.

[KingOfHearts]

Did the writers create a time paradox? Henry said he always remembered the phone call he had with his younger self. Are we doing a closed timeline now? It's implied that Adult!Henry is who sent Young!Henry off on his quest through the portal. But Adult!Henry wouldn't exist in that timeline without his own intervention in the future.

I missed about 10~ minutes of the episode. Did they cut the college tour?

Edited May 5, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Did the writers create a time paradox? Henry said he always remembered the phone call he had with his younger self. Are we doing a closed timeline now? It's implied that Adult!Henry is who sent Young!Henry off on his quest through the portal. But Adult!Henry wouldn't exist in that timeline without his own intervention in the future.

Yep, I was wondering about that, especially since they made a point of saying the season 3 finale wasn't a closed time loop. Emma and Hook's intervention hadn't always happened that way. They changed the way things happened. But now they're pulling a Terminator here, where Henry wouldn't be where he is in the future if he hadn't intervened in his own past, and it always happened that way.

11 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Did they cut the college tour?

I don't recall seeing it, but I was knitting and I think I zoned out of the Henry side of the story out of self preservation. I just remember Regina being all excited about Henry commuting to community college across town, then seeing all the folders for all the colleges he got accepted to.

[thuganomics85]

Well, I guess if you're going out, why not toss in some good old-fashioned time-traveling antics to just really make things confusing?  So, basically the curse somehow made Hyperon Heights be set during the same time old (err, young) Henry was graduating from Storybrooke, so this Henry was able to call O.G. Henry, and that caused him to believe again?  Yeah, this is already making my head hurt.  Whatever, I guess.  At least it was fun seeing Jared Gilmore again, and that is coming from someone who wasn't even a huge fan of that Henry either.

Also, the curse itself is now broken thanks to "True Love's Kiss" being Henry kissing Regina on the forehead.  Really should have saw that coming.  Sigh...

Fare thee well, Gothel and Facilier.  The actors did their best throughout all of this, but it was clear they were just placeholders for the real villains.  Sad, but nothing new for this show.  Still haven't forgiven them for how they wasted Mr. Hyde and Jafar from previous seasons.

But the big baddie for the endgame is apparently going to be Wish/Dark One Rumple, who is separated from the Normal One.  Basically a retread of Regina and Evil Queen from seasons ago.  But I'll enjoy Robert Carlyle camping it up for one last time.

Granny!!!!

Did like Tilly/Alice getting to be the big damn hero.  And her moments with Hook and Margot/Robin.

Finale is almost here.  Nothing will save this season, but I'm hoping that we get something close to a decent series finale, at least.

[CCTC]

It seems like a villain who has been plotting for 1000 years and has been built up as the big bad for about the last 15 episode should have been a little harder to dispatch.  They have done the two people shooting magic light at each while everyone gets in a circle and watch as their final battle one too many times.

Regina and Henry might have shown a bit more passion than in any scenes he has had with Ella.   Probably not what they were going for.

I had to laugh when Ella, Tianna and Naveen burst into Facilier's office  trying to look heroic and he simply poofed away leaving them with a bit of a dumb expression on their faces.

It is too bad they did not wrap up the Gothel story earlier to give more time to Dark Rumple. It does seem like a bit of a cop out that they are using Wish Rumple to finally have the character to go full out Big Bad, but should be fun to watch.

They need to tone down and ease off a bit on the inspirational speeches.   

Shouldn't Henry have been a bit creeped out by his phone conversation with his older self.  He had no idea who he was talking to - how often do you have a stranger talk to you and go on and on about personal issues without identifying themselves except a vague I am friends with your mother.  It did irritate me a bit that there was no doubt in Henry's mind that if someone asks about his mother, it is Regina.  Emma seems pretty marginalized as one of Henry's parents.  Granted that is largely because she is not on the show, but even when she is referenced it is more as Emma and not his Mother.  I suspect she is largely going to have a cameo in the finale.

I do think the second half of the season has been better, but the defeat of each of the villains has been a bit anticlimatic. 

[Rumsy4]

21 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Also, the curse itself is now broken thanks to "True Love's Kiss" being Henry kissing Regina on the forehead.  Really should have saw that coming.  Sigh...

I pretty much expected this from the start. The writers will always give Regina everything they gave Emma and more. So, if Emma and Henry got two TLKs, so would Regina and Henry.

[CCTC]

2 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I pretty much expected this from the start. The writers will always give Regina everything they gave Emma and more. So, if Emma and Henry got two TLKs, so would Regina and Henry.

Plus they love to book-end things or have parallel scenes, and this did that for the breaking of the first kiss.  I thought it would be either Henry and Regina or possibly Hook and Alice.

[Rumsy4]

If they actually followed up with what they'd set up from the start, it would have been Henry and either his wife or daughter. If they followed up with what they've been setting up with much more foundation in the second half of the season with WHook and Alice, they should have broken the Curse. But A&E's Regina permaboner would never allow them to give climactic scenes to anyone but Regina, even when she's been pretty much in the background so far. And that's always been the reason why their storytelling is so weak and contrived.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Rumsy4

[RolloTomasi]

Once it was revealed this was a Regal Believer episode there was zero chance the curse would be broken by anyone other than Henry and Regina. The laws outlined in the Regina Convention of 2011 forbid it. 

Also lol at the show yet again wrapping up its season arc in episode twenty. Time for a totally unrelated plot to finish the series! Truly there is no finer way to honor the show. 

[Writing Wrongs]

The curse is broken! Well, that was anticlimactic.

So I guess Regina got what she always wanted...Henry all to herself. The lack of Emma mentions is so frustrating.

I still don't see how Jared turns into Andrew West, but oh well.

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I believe about ten minutes later we had the conversation that it still doesn't explain the wonky timeline. 

From A&E interview:

Quote

“Where they’re sent is essentially where season 7 began,” executive producer Adam Horowitz explains of the cursed Hyperion Heights. The events of this season have therefore taken place concurrently with what’s happening in Storybrooke not long after the events of the season 6 finale. “They were actually sent back in time to that period, in the real world, before Henry graduated, and before he left.”

In case you’re still not following how this is possible, think of it this way: Henry left Storybrooke in the season 7 premiere, went off to live his life in another realm, where he met and fell in love with Cinderella (Dania Ramirez), with whom he had a child. The curse was then cast on Lucy’s eighth birthday, sending these fairy tale characters to the real-life town of Hyperion Heights in their past, but Storybrooke’s present.

The reveal actually speaks to the very clever way OUAT has gotten away with none of the original heroes — like Snow White (Ginnifer Goodwin), Prince Charming (Josh Dallas) or Emma (Jennifer Morrison) — showing up to rescue the cursed crew in Hyperion Heights. “Everybody in Storybrooke would have no idea that anyone was gone or in trouble, so no one would come after them,” Horowitz says. “What’s been going on throughout the whole season, the reason that Emma’s never shown up, or nobody’s ever come to look for them, is as far as they’re concerned, everybody’s back in Storybrooke and fine.”

[Camera One]

I have to admit there were moments in this episode which gave me the feels, often at moments when I was rolling my eyes at warp speed.  Only this show.

So Gothel was MIA for three episodes, and one has to wonder what the hell she was doing for 80% of this episode. 

Did she need to recruit Regina as the eighth witch in case everyone turned into trees and the spell still wasn't complete?  Even that girl from "thousands of years ago" had to turn into a tree, because Gothel didn't need any friends in the apocalyptic wasteland that would exist afterward?  And then she would wait a couple thousand years to start over, right?  So much for Gothel wanting Rumple's Dagger, or Gothel wanting to find The Guardian.  

"Henry has more pain than you know," Gothel said.  From what?!  Did they seriously expect us to believe that Henry was still grieving over his fake family, when they haven't mentioned it in, uh, 15 episodes?  

As people predicted, there was zero explanation for the 180 Henry did from last episode to this one, in terms of belief.  So he "grew up" sometime between last episode and this one?

The scene at the beginning where Lucy ran up yelling "The True Love Kiss didn't work!"  "But Henry is poisoned!"  "Not anymore!" was hilarious.  You'd think Regina would immediately want to check on Henry to make sure he was actually alright.  The whole threat of Henry dying from the poisoned fizzled out just like that.  So why did Evil Facilier help to cure Henry again?  Was he truly in love with Regina?  I guess none of that matters anymore.

It was fun to see Granny and Jared again.  But it didn't explain his decision to go and find his own story in a magical realm, as previously advertised by A&E.  "Home is not a place.  It's the people in it."  So abandon them all and leave town... great message. 

It was cheesy but I did like the phone conversation even though it was ridiculous that Young Henry would spill his guts to a nameless stranger on the phone who sounded all breathy and intense asking stuff like, "So... what's next" and somehow knew what fell behind his dresser?

Rumple told Regina that "Lucy told me about Gothel's visit".  Why would Lucy be talking to Weaver?  

If Rumple could "distill" the memory potion from Nick's blood, why doesn't Rumple and Regina take out some blood and distill it?  The memory potion stays in the system for that long?  If Regina stopped diluting the potions so much, she could have woken up 3 people with one vial.

So Henry rushes out of the apartment leaving Lucy alone, and saves the TLK for mommy dearest.  I guess he loved Regina more.  

"I'm beginning to realize I may never get back to Belle.  Perhaps I should help the family I have."  Another insta-change of heart right before the big finale with a Rumbelle reunion.

So Jacinda and Tiana ran out of the closet to confront Facilier, and then Tiana turned around to say hi to Drew?  Even though the Curse broke when they were in the closet so they would have remembered before they ran out?

How could I forget.  One of the Disney movies they hadn't done yet was "Honey I Shrunk the Kids".  

Why would breaking the Curse also break the shrinkage spell that Alice put on Whook, Rumple and Robyn?  

How did Henry know Regina was in the Community Garden?  How did Jacinda know Henry was in the Community Garden?  How did Lucy know they were all in the Community Garden?

I was so moved when 2 extras in the far blurry background in the community garden ran to each other to hug.

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I missed about 10~ minutes of the episode. Did they cut the college tour?

The college tour wasn't in the episode.  I guess we'll all have to buy the Season 7 DVD now.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I'm probably alone in this, but Henry came off as kind of a dick in this episode. It's most likely because his "pain" was based on phony grief that wasn't really an issue for him in the first place. Not to mention the 180 from his tune in the last episode. He ignored everyone around him because he'd rather pout. I guess this really is the Henry we all know and get annoyed by - throwing his loved ones under the bus out of a punctured ego. Nothing really changes. 

[KAOS Agent]

There is just something so off about a thirty something man who has a wife and child sharing True Love's Kiss with his mother. Children have a special relationship with their parents, but it changes as we grow older. I know it was supposed to be sweet and bookend the entire story or whatever, but it comes off as not right in this situation and doesn't really fit with the arc in S7. Henry was supposed to grow and find adventure and love and all that comes with leaving home and becoming an adult and all of that was basically ignored so that he could break a curse by kissing his mother. It's also very concerning that his kisses with his wife and daughter were not able to break a curse, but the one with Regina did. Way to minimize his relationships with his own daughter and his necklace declared True Love.

[Rumsy4]

5 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

There is just something so off about a thirty something man who has a wife and child sharing True Love's Kiss with his mother. ... It's also very concerning that his kisses with his wife and daughter were not able to break a curse, but the one with Regina did.

I guess his wife and daughter will have to be satisfied to always being second and third best to his mother (Emma might score a distant fourth, if Henry ever thinks of her). What a wonderfully healthy family dynamic! 

[KingOfHearts]

This episode's description should have been, "Regina is codependent."

[Shanna Marie]

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

Why would breaking the Curse also break the shrinkage spell that Alice put on Whook, Rumple and Robyn?  

I was wondering about that and realized that I seemed to have missed how/when that spell was broken. I guess a TLK breaks all spells, whether or not they're related to the particular curse being broken and whether or not they have anything to do with the people involved in the TLK. Plus, a TLK can also heal physical injuries. But the TLK doesn't undo the time travel spell or the spell that sent them to a strange world or the spell that may (or in this case, may not) have created a town/neighborhood. And what about the spells on the normal people around them that made them accept that these strangers were in their lives and made them think they'd always been there? Did the cops who remembered working with Rogers for ten years and Weaver for probably longer than that suddenly go "Who the hell are these guys and where did they come from? Why do we have two British guys in one precinct of the Seattle police department?"

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

It was cheesy but I did like the phone conversation even though it was ridiculous that Young Henry would spill his guts to a nameless stranger on the phone who sounded all breathy and intense asking stuff like, "So... what's next" and somehow knew what fell behind his dresser?

I find it amusing that Henry didn't seem to find it at all suspicious that someone would call Regina's house, claiming to be her friend, and it wasn't someone he knew. Regina has never left Storybrooke for more than a day or so. She doesn't really do friends. Her "friends" are all Henry's family members. If he'd been in his room at Emma's house, that scene might have worked better because Emma had a life before Storybrooke and might have had friends from outside calling, but then I guess Adult Henry wouldn't have been able to get that phone number unless he did a search for Emma Swan, maybe (which might have been interesting if he'd looked to see if his character really existed and was really his mother). So the only realistic reaction to getting a call from his mother's friend would have been "Nice try. I know all my mother's friends -- both of the ones who aren't family. I know everyone in town. I don't know you."

As for his big speech about having never lived anywhere but Storybrooke, I guess they forgot that he lived for a year in Manhattan. The life there may have been based on fake memories, but he really did live that year and have those experiences.

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

So Jacinda and Tiana ran out of the closet to confront Facilier, and then Tiana turned around to say hi to Drew?  Even though the Curse broke when they were in the closet so they would have remembered before they ran out?

I'm not sure why the curse breaking allowed them to run out of the closet. They got their memories, not superpowers, and their memories would have told them that Facilier had magical powers. I'd think they'd have been more likely to free Drew and run out of the closet to attack just some shady businessman. I guess they remembered that they're fierce warrior women?

I'm all for full-circle storytelling and meaningful callbacks, etc., but you have to do them well. Generally, they're meant to show how things have changed because the characters respond differently to the same situation. But these guys just repeat the same thing over and over again, with no surprise, no change, and then they act like merely repeating the same trope is meaningful. Just off the top of my head, we had Hook undoing his fake hand to get out of being tied up, which was almost the same (down to the camera angle) as Hook undoing his hook to get out of being tied up by Arthur in 5A. There was the "we'll all hold hands to support you as you fight off the magic" bit, just like in 5A with Regina fighting off the Fury. The breaking of the curse was pretty much exactly 3B, with Henry believing and getting his memories back, Regina getting knocked out by the bad guy, and Henry breaking the curse by kissing her.

The parent/child TLK to break the curse was a fun twist on the trope in season one. But they've done it so many times and have done it with this pair already, in almost identical circumstances, so that it's no longer a surprise. It's quite expected and there's no longer anything fresh about it. There's also no real reason why a random TLK between any two people will break any curse. With Curse 1, it worked because Emma was the Savior. I don't think either Henry or Regina had any special status under this curse, and that's what makes it a bit creepy that if any two people could break it, Henry's kissing his wife and daughter didn't work but him kissing his mother did.

Really, I still think it should have been Alice and WHook. She's Gothel's daughter, which might have given her some power over Gothel's curse. There was the theme of her choosing love over hate, so her love for her father and them utterly believing they were father and daughter without any magical intervention would have made a TLK meaningful. Then there's the added drama that the TLK would nearly kill WHook while saving everyone else. If this whole story was supposed to have been about Henry and his journey, building up to him believing and breaking the kiss, then he needed to have been a more central figure all along, and his relationship with Regina needed to have been more important. He's been mostly offscreen, never had a goal, didn't do much of anything, and his primary onscreen relationship this season has been with his wife and daughter. It ended up being like someone broke a curse in Storybrooke by kissing Granny, for all the interaction he had with "Roni."

[Curio]

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

This episode's description should have been, "Regina is codependent."

That's basically the description for the entire series.

I haven't been around these forums/the show for a while, but this episode surprisingly managed to make me feel like I was watching a halfway decent episode from a pre-Season 6 season. Halfway decent is high praise at this point, especially for a Henry-heavy episode.

A&E just couldn't resist the UW Madison shout outs to remind the audience yet again, yes, Henry is their self-insert character. (But Regina is also their self-insert, so I don't know how I should read that TLK...)

12 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

So Regina and Henry can have a TLK but Hook and Emma never did?  Whatever, so glad I up on this show last fall.

There'll always be the True Love's Tackle... I've been upset about Emma and Hook never having a proper TLK too, but in hindsight, I'm going to officially deem their kiss/CPR thing in 3x20 to be a TLK. There was a ring of energy that exploded that matches all the other TLKs on the show, it's just that the overhead angle they filmed it at was awkward so it wasn't entirely obvious. That kiss had a couple different CGI effects going on at the same time: there was the smokey white mist effect leaving Emma's body and also the circle of energy burst that looks a heck of a lot like the TLK energy burst. The white mist represented Zelena's spell taking Emma's magic, and the TLK brought Hook back from the dead because Emma totally didn't give him proper CPR. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

"Home isn't a place, it's the people in it. And they will always be with you." Sounds like Henry doesn't consider Emma his home since she really isn't a part of "the people in it" anymore. But I guess she'll always be with him? In spirit? Maybe? Whatever, it's a lost cause.

[Camera One]

Henry's whole realization in the episode made no sense.  He rejected the Real World colleges because he couldn't part with Storybrooke (I think this was supposed to parallel how the audience also can't bear to part with this show, LOL).  After the phone call and "Home isn't the place" line, he realizes the people he loves will all be within him.  Okay, fine.  But then, wouldn't he still be going for those colleges?  But the only thing that changed his whole future was when when he saw Tiny's bean gift.  Or was it because of the creep on the phone who said he would really need that bean?  

When Henry finally remembered in Hyperion Heights, he didn't even try to kiss Lucy.  He just ran out and left her there to look for Roni.  That's what made it laughable to me.  If he remembered everything, wouldn't he realize Lucy and Jacinda were in danger from Gothel?  

So Whook and Alice's poisoned hearts - that didn't get broken, right?  I'm assuming that's why Whook was on the stretcher far far away from Alice?

Are we going to find out what Facilier was planning to do with all his voodoo dolls?  What was the point of his dating Regina again? We never even saw how they originally met.  Were they going to leave that for Season 8?  

Edited May 5, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

"Home isn't a place, it's the people in it. And they will always be with you." Sounds like Henry doesn't consider Emma his home since she really isn't a part of "the people in it" anymore. But I guess she'll always be with him? In spirit? Maybe? Whatever, it's a lost cause.

This is the kind of thing people say when a loved one dies. It's odd to talk about living people like this. It's like what Dumbledore told Harry in the Prisoner of Azkaban. 

14 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

Wasn't the line Emma repeated in the season three finale, "Home is the place when you leave you just miss it?" It was a stupid line, but seems that Henry would have learned that one too. 

I actually assumed that's what he was going to say when he started the sentence.

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So Whook and Alice's poisoned hearts - that didn't get broken, right?  I'm assuming that's why Whook was on the stretcher far far away from Alice?

It felt so odd to see everyone else happily reuniting and not even sparing a thought for him. Alice can't go too near again, apparently, but what about the rest of them? Especially when he had given up his White Elephant to keep Lucy and her mom together. 

It's like when Belle broke down in the middle of the street when Rumple killed Pan and disappeared, and no one comforted her. MM immediately asked Regina if she was okay. Or when MM completely ignored her shivering daughter to act territorial around Elsa. 

[tennisgurl]

Is it that surprising that Henry, A&Es self insert character, kissed Regina, their favorite character they clearly are in love with, to save the world?

[Camera One]

Could Whook and Alice talk on the phone?  The scene with Alice looking from afar was very oddly staged and sequenced, amidst all the other reunions.  

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Is it that surprising that Henry, A&Es self insert character, kissed Regina, their favorite character they clearly are in love with, to save the world?

Yep, ultimately, this whole show is a love story to Regina.

Remember in the Emma episode at the beginning of the season when Henry threw a fit after that sword fight?  This episode totally explains that too.  I love the payoff that the Writers work in.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Camera One

[Curio]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm all for full-circle storytelling and meaningful callbacks, etc., but you have to do them well. Generally, they're meant to show how things have changed because the characters respond differently to the same situation. But these guys just repeat the same thing over and over again, with no surprise, no change, and then they act like merely repeating the same trope is meaningful.

 

Not only do they repeat the same thing over and over within this show, they repeat plots from other shows they've written for and insert them here. In Dead of Summer, A&E had a woman leave her lawyer boyfriend for a writer. See: Jacinda, Nick, and Henry. (It makes me wonder if A&E had a girlfriend in their past who left them for a lawyer...)

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Is it that surprising that Henry, A&Es self insert character, kissed Regina, their favorite character they clearly are in love with, to save the world?

Nope, not surprising at all.

39 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Henry's whole realization in the episode made no sense. He rejected the Real World colleges because he couldn't part with Storybrooke (I think this was supposed to parallel how the audience also can't bear to part with this show, LOL). After the phone call and "Home isn't the place" line, he realizes the people he loves will all be within him. Okay, fine. But then, wouldn't he still be going for those colleges? But the only thing that changed his whole future was when when he saw Tiny's bean gift. Or was it because of the creep on the phone who said he would really need that bean?  

2

I think the main reason Henry rejected the Real World colleges is that he'd constantly have to lie to people about how he grew up. If he went to A&E's alma mater, he might have been able to make friends and build a new life in Wisconsin, but he'd always be deceiving people. Leaving Storybrooke and exploring other magical realms allows him to be truthful with everyone he meets about how he grew up, but he can still get that "I'm a young adult and need to explore the world without my family for a few years" feeling. The show was just clunky about explaining it in the episode.

Also, why have Tiny be the random person who gives Henry the magic bean? Sure, for continuity's sake I guess Tiny used to grow beans, but we've been shown that pretty much anyone and their cat can find a bean these days. Why not tie in Henry's other Storybrooke parents into the episode and have the magic bean gift come from Hook and Emma? In 7x02, Emma was anxious about Henry leaving Storybrooke, and we could interpret that as Emma being anxious about Henry going off to one of the many colleges he got accepted to. And in 7x01, Regina said that she couldn't believe Emma was okay with Henry realm hopping, so they already set it up that Emma knew about Henry leaving before that scene. So Emma gifting Henry a magic bean as a graduation gift would have been a nice way of showing that Emma was finally at peace with Henry leaving Storybrooke and exploring the world on his own, and it would make sense that Hook would know where to get a magic bean because he's basically a professional bean hunter at this point. The bean coming from Tiny just doesn't pack the same emotional punch.

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

It felt so odd to see everyone else happily reuniting and not even sparing a thought for him. Alice can't go too near again, apparently, but what about the rest of them? Especially when he had given up his White Elephant to keep Lucy and her mom together. 

 

Wow, I totally forgot about the white elephant thing. (Shows how much I've been paying attention this season.) The directing for this episode had some odd moments; that was one of them. I also thought the director should have had Rogers be in a lot more pain when he had to grab Alice's hand. In the past, a mere hug sent him flying backward. Granted, that was in a realm full of magic and Hyperion Heights barely has magic at this point, but Rogers should have been kneeling or writhing on the ground in physical agony to really drive home how serious the poisoned heart spell is. Maybe it was an acting decision to play it more subtle, but if I were directing it, I'd want to see near death from Rogers instead of heart burn.

[Camera One]

5 minutes ago, Curio said:

I think the main reason Henry rejected the Real World colleges is that he'd constantly have to lie to people about how he grew up. 

That reason did initially make sense, but then, he confided on the phone to Adult Henry that it wasn't the real reason, and it was all about finding it difficult to "let go" of Storybrooke.  I suppose seeing that bean gave him an alternate path where he could leave and still be himself.  

I think what Shanna Marie suggested above, to have a scene with Original Hook and Henry in this episode, could have fleshed out his motivation better.  It's not like they had to hire the actor back.  But they clearly chose not to do it because it's all about Henry and Regina's super special connection.

[Curio]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

I think what Shanna Marie suggested above, to have a scene with Original Hook and Henry in this episode, could have fleshed out his motivation better.  It's not like they had to hire the actor back.  But they clearly chose not to do it because it's all about Henry and Regina's super special connection.

 

It could have been cool to see a heartfelt conversation between Regina and Hook about how to deal with Henry's situation. Alas, that would imply Emma is also Henry's mother, and they're only allowed to refer to Offscreen Emma as either "the Sheriff" or "the Hero."

[Camera One]

Given Gothel's ruthless nature, why didn't she just kill all these pesky characters off, so they wouldn't interfere?  

[tennisgurl]

It was so nice to see Storebrooke again! Even if we hardly saw much of it, it was just so great to actually be in a fun, unique location, instead of a super boring neighborhood in a city that could be anywhere. It wasn't as bad as last weeks episode, and I admit I did enjoy a few scenes, but mostly I just have more questions, as I usually do with this season. 

It was cool seeing young Henry and Granny, and even references to Grumpy and Tiny (he still exists!), so that was something at least. However, I continue to be super annoyed at how they seemed to have just written Emma out of Henry's life totally. Its all Regina, all the time! Really, the weird, codependent relationship they have has just gotten increasingly creepy. And of course he gets TLK not with his wife, or his daughter, but...his mother. Freud would have a freaking field day with this relationship! Especially when he was holding her on the ground and kissed her, it really looked like SHE was his love interest, and not Jacinda. I guess thats what you get when you age up the son of a mother/son combo, but leave the mom the exact same age. Or when the son is the authors self insert, and the mom is their crush. 

Storeybrooke University? Really? Did they get their accreditation from the curse too? Are they in the same conference as UC Sunnydale, and all the other colleges that pop up out of nowhere to keep teen characters on the show? And of course Henry got into every school he applied to. Does Storeybrooke even have transcripts? Were they impressed by his advanced fencing and bird upkeep? 

I would probably be more invested in Henry and his heart of the truest believer if they had brought up his dead family more than once throughout the season. I never really felt anything, because its never been an issue until now. I just dont care that much, even if the actor did actually seem to be awake this week. And his phone call was alright, even though, did they just create a time loop? Can we keep time travel out of this madnes?

The Hook/Tilly/Robyn stuff was definitely the highlight of the episode, and it makes me sad that we didnt get more of it. I like Tilly/Robyn, and they're by FAR the best paring of the season, but I wish we could have established them more. Instead of wasting all that time with convoluted real estate scheme and a half assed serial killer story, couldn't have seen more of them together, and built up this epic love? Of course, they couldn't even be bothered with the actual supposed main pairing this season, so I guess we should just be happy to have something good. Also, cant Hook and Tilly/Alice just Skype? They can easily get back to Storeybrooke now, why not stop by to chit chat? But, I am actually invested in them, so I will just have to take what I can get. 

So Gothel was...super easy to defeat. Tilly being the Big Damn Hero was cool. but, for a super powered nymph/witch whos been plotting her vengeance for thousands of years, she sure didnt have a contingency plan if things went south, would they? Did she even know that the curse could happen? How did she plan all of this, and why was her plan just "go to basement, buy cloaks, get witches, and wave arms". It was pretty anticlimactic for the supposed Big Bad. Or one of them, we`re on Big Bad number five now. 

Gothel and the Coat Hangers turning into trees just gave me horrible flashbacks to this kids show I used to like as a kid called David the Gnome, where, in the last episode, the main characters all kind of died and turned into trees. It was deeply traumatizing and utterly baffling for tiny Tennisgurl, who had no idea why everyone was randomly turning into freaking trees, and from then on, there has been a tiny part of my brain that waits for every show I love to end with "and then they all turn into trees for no fucking reason" even if it makes no sense. It didnt make sense then either! 

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

This is the kind of thing people say when a loved one dies. It's odd to talk about living people like this. It's like what Dumbledore told Harry in the Prisoner of Azkaban. 

3 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

It reminded me of what Odin told Thor in Thor: Ragnarok. Will A&E ever have an idea that they didnt get from other, better stories? 

Edited May 5, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Camera One]

Did Lady Tremaine have her coffin pre-made or something?  How could she make sure she was buried with the book when she never expected to die in the first place?

[KingOfHearts]

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

Henry's whole realization in the episode made no sense.  He rejected the Real World colleges because he couldn't part with Storybrooke (I think this was supposed to parallel how the audience also can't bear to part with this show, LOL).  After the phone call and "Home isn't the place" line, he realizes the people he loves will all be within him.  Okay, fine.  But then, wouldn't he still be going for those colleges?  But the only thing that changed his whole future was when when he saw Tiny's bean gift.  Or was it because of the creep on the phone who said he would really need that bean?  

Henry really pulled a 180, and I'm not just talking about his belief. First, he was desperate to get out of Storybrooke. Then later he wanted to stay because he had to lie on the essays? For real? He made this big deal about being born in the Land Without Magic and how this was his realm, then later he's like "no one can understand me because I'm from a family of fairy tale characters!" So which is it? Does he identify with the real world, or with the fairy tale world? The essay excuse was so stupid. When you're planning out your future, you focus on the big picture. So what if he can't tell them he was kidnapped by Peter Pan? If he got accepted, he got accepted.

Quote

Can we keep time travel out of this madnes?

I have a feeling it's only going to get worse.

Quote

I would probably be more invested in Henry and his heart of the truest believer if they had brought up his dead family more than once throughout the season.

With Emma, her stubbornness wasn't flip-flopping. Her only glimmer of belief occurred in 1x17, Hat Trick. She began an interest in Henry's book, but she didn't decide to believe it all. Henry had some kind of vague belief in 7x10 that wasn't explained. Later his entire apartment was full of evidence proving his book had all these connections to reality. This was not a guy who didn't want to believe due to grief. He was excited about it. Why would the Truest Believer take this long to put things together and choose not to believe until he's forced to? He is not Emma. He is Henry. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

17 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And it's called "Storybrooke College". Very clever. :-p

And its abbreviation was SBC.  Which also stands for "Same Basic Climax" that was this episode.

[StaceyNotStacie]

I finally got a chance to watch this episode and I really enjoyed it, especially the second half. I wasn’t expecting the catch with the different time. I really liked the conversation between the two Henrys and the moment when his life flashed before his eyes and him hearing Regina’s voice in the background. 

I felt bad for Rumple when everyone reunited. I was hoping that Henry would have acknowledged him as family. 

I’m a little disappointed that we’re not getting a 2-hour finale, but I am looking forward to the end. I’ve seen every episode since the beginning, so I really want to see how they finish the story. Considering how ABC has pulled other shows without any ending, I’m grateful that they’re willing to give it a proper ending. 

[KingOfHearts]

11 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Did Lady Tremaine have her coffin pre-made or something?  How could she make sure she was buried with the book when she never expected to die in the first place?

Here's a deleted scene.

EXT. MIDNIGHT, CEMETERY

RONI is digging up a grave. HENRY strolls by.
Henry: "Roni?! What the hell are you doing?!"
Roni: "Finding a book for you to touch by exhuming a dead body."
Henry: "You're insane! I'm calling the cops! This has gone too far!"
Roni: "Um, sorry, son."
RONI knocks HENRY unconscious with her SHOVEL.
Roni: "You won't remember this... hopefully."

Quote

Given Gothel's ruthless nature, why didn't she just kill all these pesky characters off, so they wouldn't interfere?  

I'm just going to assume she was out on an ice run for most of this episode. It's quite humorous that she vanquished all of humanity and fostered the worst coven ever yet got turned into a tree by one girl who barely knows anything about using magic. It's great if Alice does it, but if Rumple does it, he's got a tainted soul.

Edited May 5, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

35 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

It's great if Alice does it, but if Rumple does it, he's got a tainted soul.

Hello,

I'm the Morality Consultant on this show, and I'm here to help you to understand the complexities of last night's story.

Gothel was always a tree so Alice, who is also part tree, turning her back into a tree does not taint her soul.

However, Rumple as the Dark One was not a tree.  If you think back, Nimue insulted nature by turning green, so if Rumple had turned Gothel into a tree, it would have left a very black mark on his soul which could jeopardize his reunion with his beloved Belle.

Now, Roni used a baseball bat to try to kill Gothel but since bats are made out of wood and so is Gothel's essence, that doesn't taint the soul.

Hope that helps,

Morality Consultant
Once Upon a Time

Edited May 5, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

19 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Morality Consultant

Please tell me you don't teach Sunday School too.

[Prin Holmes]

22 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Good riddance to two of the lamest villains of the Show tonight.

Gothel and Facilier both dispatched in one fell swoop?  If you ask me, that had a touch of wrapping things up quickly due to the cancellation.  Maybe Gothel was always supposed to be dispatched this way, but I'd always had the feeling that Facilier was supposed to be around longer.

But whatever.  I guess I'll sit alone at my table and being glad that the curse finally broke.

But I am very excited about next week.  Snow!  David!  And I think I even saw a glimpse of Emma!  Unlike most here, I've actually liked getting to know the new characters.  But I am very excited about seeing the old ones return for the final farewell!

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Prin Holmes said:

Maybe Gothel was always supposed to be dispatched this way, but I'd always had the feeling that Facilier was supposed to be around longer.

Regina's relationship with Facilier was totally pointless. It went absolutely nowhere.

I'm pretty sure she's cursed. Every boyfriend she's ever had is dead. It probably transferred over from Emma.

Edited May 6, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[mythoughtis]

I did hear Storybrooke Regina mention Emma to Henry. I guess that’s all we are going to get. What are you going to do when the actress won’t return? 

If they hadn’t wasted so much time on Crappy Rapunzel/ Druzilla story, this wouldn’t have been a bad season. The second half has been pretty good - except for Jacinda. 

Now why is WHooks heart still poisoned? Mother Gothel is no more, so shouldnt WHook be released from his curse? 

[Camera One]

16 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Now why is WHooks heart still poisoned? Mother Gothel is no more, so shouldnt WHook be released from his curse? 

Yeah, this makes no sense.  My guess is they need another happy ending for Whook and Alice in the finale, so they have to wait a bit longer.

[Rumsy4]

Only dark magic can cure dark magic or some nonsense like that.