Roswell (1999) - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from Roswell (1999).

[blueray]

I just started re-watching this recently. Its nice to see it has a board now. I've always liked this show and it's on hulu which is nice.

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, blueray said:

it's on hulu which is nice

I hadn't noticed that it was on Hulu—but not with all of the original music, right?

I guess we should start a board for the reboot (http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/roswell/268203/roswell-reboot-adds-five-to-cast)

I doubt I will rewatch, except now that I know it's on Hulu, maybe the next time my youngest daughter visits, we'll watch our favorite episode, "I Married An Alien."

Edited April 14, 2018 by shapeshifter

[Petunia13]

This show was so romantic. And I liked it was set in the southwest small town since I am a Chicago girl. 

[tessaray]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I hadn't noticed that it was on Hulu—but not with all of the original music, right?

I guess we should start a board for the reboot (http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/roswell/268203/roswell-reboot-adds-five-to-cast)

I doubt I will rewatch, except now that I know it's on Hulu, maybe the next time my youngest daughter visits, we'll watch our favorite episode, "I Married An Alien."

PTV doesn't create boards for pilots, just shows that have been picked up to series. But as soon as it is a go, then there will be one.

Casting articles can be shared in the Media topic. 

[tessaray]

I didn't discover Roswell until close to the end of the first season.  I only noticed it as there were articles that Genie Francis was going to be guest starring as Max and Isabelle's mother.  I was definitely not the target demo but it quickly became one of my favorite shows. The music, the locations and the actors made it much different than the average show.  (The plots, on the other hand... well, you can't have everything.) 

[tessaray]

I liked Majandra a lot, too - especially Maria's dynamic with her mom. It was the first thing I ever remember seeing Diane Farr in.  Same for William Sadler.  And yeah, Jason Behr was only believable when Max was mooning over Liz but overall, the cast had great chemistry.  

I also kind of liked the third season, including Isabel and Jesse's Bewitched vibe. I wish I had time to do a rewatch.   

[blueray]

Quote

Katherine Heigl is good, but she plays the same part in everything that she is.

She really does. She's always the confident perfectionist that appears full of herself.

I like the relationship with Maria and her mother too. I love the scene when she talks to her about not making the same mistakes that she did. At the same time her mother gets that Maria loves Michael. And as time goes on she understands that he treats Maria well. 

[meatball77]

Max and Liz forever.  Tess sucks!!

I loved the series and have rewatched it several times.  I like the second season, I liked how they had short arcs.  The third season was weird.  Isabelle suddenly became 25 years old (not that she didn't always seem older), and got married.
 

As much as I hated Tess, I think they really dropped the ball with the baby storyline.  It could have been great.

The behind the scenes stuff with the cast is interesting to read about.  The leads all hated their jobs and wanted the show to be canceled.

[ae2]

I always get this show mixed up with Kyle XY. I'm not sure why other than I must have watched them around the same time. 

I liked most of the cast of this show, despite their sometimes terrible acting, but William Sadler was by far the most memorable part. And not only because he's the Grim Reaper!

The reboot sounds sort of terrible. Despite liking the original and loving any sort of alien shows, it doesn't make me want to watch it at all.

[Enero]

I agree with the consensus. The reboot sounds terrible. 

I watched this show back in the day. Back then I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. ?Now, not so much. I went back and watched seasons 1-2 a couple of years ago when they had the cast reunion. The Pilot still held as it was mysterious and magically. The chemistry between Appleby and Behr was incredible, everything you’d imagine soulmates to be. However, the subsequent episodes (in season 1 at least) bored.me.to.tears, and I finally realized why this show was on the brink of cancellation almost the entire time it aired. It had an interesting premise and had the potential to be great, but just wasn’t.

It was essentially about an alien who loved a human with a little mystery thrown in, but it needed more. Season 2 attempted to add some oomph and it did show signs of life in the first few episodes, but by the time they got to the Dupes storyline the show was off the rails. 

I will say this show introduced me to some great musicians - Sarah McLachlan being the most notable. The scene with Max healing Liz as “Fear” played in the background is one of my most memorable TV viewing experiences as was Future Max disappearing as he and Liz danced to Sheryl Crow’s “I Still Believe.” 

IMHO, the music was a big part of what made this show feel special back in 1999. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Enero said:

I watched this show back in the day. Back then I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. ?Now, not so much.…
The Pilot still held as it was mysterious and magically. The chemistry between Appleby and Behr was incredible, everything you’d imagine soulmates to be. However…I finally realized why this show was on the brink of cancellation almost the entire time it aired. It had an interesting premise and had the potential to be great, but just wasn’t.... 

I will say this show introduced me to some great musicians - Sarah McLachlan being the most notable. The scene with Max healing Liz as “Fear” played in the background is one of my most memorable TV viewing experiences as was Future Max disappearing as he and Liz danced to Sheryl Crow’s “I Still Believe.” 

IMHO, the music was a big part of what made this show feel special back in 1999. 

All the above quoted ^^ parts of @Enero's post could have been copied from the tapes of my memories of the show. 

For me the show was perfect until Tess arrived (through 1.16 "Sexual Healing"). After that I kept watching the way I stuck with relationships that we're doomed,  (with occasional good moments/episodes) only at least the finale ("Graduation") was satisfying.

[bettername2come]

I'm rewatching the pilot. I blame you all. I was obsessed with this show back in middle school. I even owned all the books. I agree with the assessment above about unfulfilled potential. I was actually kind of excited to hear there would be a remake at first because it would be possible to remake this and improve it, but the premise sounds awful.There's a lot to still love about the show - Max and Liz when they were at their best, Liz and Maria's friendship, William Sadler in a role that shows his range, Colin Hanks, the utter creepiness of the white room, Liz Parker's gorgeous rooftop, that sci-fi rock that's in everything.

In terms of satisfying moments from the last season, Liz blasting Tess across the room and saying "Get up, bitch" is one of my favorites, cheesy though it may be. I also give the show credit for having the guts to get rid of characters that weren't working in a dramatic and surprisingly emotional fashion.

[AnnaRose]

4 hours ago, Enero said:

I will say this show introduced me to some great musicians - Sarah McLachlan being the most notable. The scene with Max healing Liz as “Fear” played in the background is one of my most memorable TV viewing experiences as was Future Max disappearing as he and Liz danced to Sheryl Crow’s “I Still Believe.” 

IMHO, the music was a big part of what made this show feel special back in 1999. 

I was a fan of Sarah McLachlan's for about a decade before this show began, but it did introduce me to a ton of other artists.  I remember Roswell being the first real exposure in the US for Coldplay back then - the band even wrote, at the time, about how grateful they were to have their music featured on the show.  (Then they very quickly blew up in the states.)  Coldplay's "Trouble", during the jeep explosion scene in Departure, was a good example of how they took such care to choreograph the action to the music.

I agree with you Enero that the music was a huge part of what made Roswell so special.  I wish they had been able to release the DVDs with the original music.  It really irks me that they had to replace it.   I bought at least 25 CDs because of music featured on Roswell during the original run.  For the DVDs, they should have negotiated keeping the music and adding a feature at the end of each episode.  They could have included "music by"... and the music clip/album cover for a reduced licensing fee and free advertising for the band.  Stupid, greedy music industry!!

I still watch Roswell, probably every year or two.  I bought the commercial DVDs, but I normally just watch the recordings I made with the original music.  I bought an expensive DVD recorder back in 2003 and recorded the reruns on Sci-Fi to DVD-RAM discs. (Which were also very expensive back then... and the reason why I put two episodes on each disc and later regretted that I didn't save it to better quality when the music was replaced.)

I have up to 100 markers per episode, so I just click, click, click to all of my favorite lines and moments... so it isn't boring for me to rewatch.  I actually watch all three seasons very quickly.  (If I didn't have it set up like that, I would probably rarely watch my commercial DVDs.)  It still has a lot of magic left for me.

I think if I watched the official DVDs more often I would probably find them somewhat boring like others have mentioned... not just because of it being harder to skip the slower, less interesting parts (or parts that I don't like), but also because of the missing original music.  Although the team generally chose the replacement music fairly well - at times I was quite impressed how well they captured the feeling of the scene - the big fail for me was when the original music was just replaced with generic score.  One egregious example I recall was the end of the fourth episode, Leaving Normal, after Liz's grandmother dies.  The original featured Sarah McLachlan's "I Love You" during the scene when Max and Liz have their first hug, and it highlights and amplifies the emotions beautifully.  In the official DVDs, the score makes the scene seem kind of slow and flat to me.

Even minor songs that were removed, like "I think I'm Paranoid" during the Pilot after Max confesses to Michael and Isabel that he told Liz, diminished the show in the DVDs and streaming.  That song fit what was going on so perfectly and really heightened the sense of paranoia the characters were going through.  Another background song that accentuated the intensity of the story was in the first season when Valenti gives the gang back the orb.  The original episode had this song playing during the whole scene, and it was cut in the DVDs/streaming version.  These weren't major songs for the show, but they added significantly to the whole Roswell vibe that the original show had.

Roswell's very specific "Roswellian" vibe was diluted without the original music.  And it was crazy disappointing that they weren't able to keep Gomez's "We Haven't Turned Around" during Max and Liz's first kiss.  The replacement song had a similar sound, but the whole "it's not for sale" lyrics just seem wrong for that scene.

The other thing I love about Roswell, other than the music, characters, relationships, intrigue and friendships is the small-town, desert southwest setting.  The art direction - lighting - cinematography is fantastic, and it has such a wonderful sense of place that is so unique to Roswell.  I remember stumbling upon Smallville (the WB's replacement for Roswell) back in the day, and visually it looked so cheap and cartoonish compared to Roswell.

[shapeshifter]

Thank you, @AnnaRose, for your detailed specifics on how the original music added so much to individual episodes. It wasn't just good music, it was part of the story—often eclipsing the acting. Maybe the poor quality of much of the acting was deemed acceptable  when it just served as background for the music and visuals—good acting at those moments would be distracting.

8 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

I bought the commercial DVDs, but I normally just watch the recordings I made with the original music. I bought an expensive DVD recorder back in 2003 and recorded the reruns on Sci-Fi to DVD-RAM discs. (Which were also very expensive back then... and the reason why I put two episodes on each disc and later regretted that I didn't save it to better quality when the music was replaced.)

I have up to 100 markers per episode, so I just click, click, click to all of my favorite lines and moments... so it isn't boring for me to rewatch. I actually watch all three seasons very quickly. (If I didn't have it set up like that, I would probably rarely watch my commercial DVDs.) It still has a lotof magic left for me.

I too bought a $200 unit back then just to transfer my Roswell tapes to DVDs (to preserve the original music) but l only recorded one or two episodes and was so disappointed in the quality (my originals were not recorded at the highest possible definition, and my manual cutting of commercials caused more harm than good) that I let the project go. I'm vicariously pleased that someone did follow through on this. 

 

I'm slightly embarrassed to post the link to the website I coded back in the day (before the advent of The Internet Archive), but here it is: http://thesmudge.com/shapeshifter/Roswell 
Just ignore the "Rosblog" button I added later. When my work hours get cut to half time in a couple of months, maybe I'll take time to at least move the button to a place separate from the rest of the Roswell focused content.
Anyway, it might be fun to read some old episode-specific comments and crazy "theories" from back when they first aired, or, in many cases, during the first reruns.

 

But @AnnaRose, I actually liked the primary colors (red-yellow-blue) color scheme of Smallville but did quit watching seasons before the end of the series.

Edited April 20, 2018 by shapeshifter

[AnnaRose]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Thank you, @AnnaRose, for your detailed specifics on how the original music added so much to individual episodes. It wasn't just good music, it was part of the story—often eclipsing the acting. Maybe the poor quality of much of the acting was deemed acceptable  when it just served as background for the music and visuals—good acting at those moments would be distracting.

I too bought a $200 unit back then just to transfer my Roswell tapes to DVDs (to preserve the original music) but l only recorded one or two episodes and was so disappointed in the quality (my originals were not recorded at the highest possible definition, and my manual cutting of commercials caused more harm than good) that I let the project go. I'm vicariously pleased that someone did follow through on this. 

 

I'm slightly embarrassed to post the link to the website I coded back in the day (before the advent of The Internet Archive), but here it is: http://thesmudge.com/shapeshifter/Roswell 
Just ignore the "Rosblog" button I added later. When my work hours get cut to half time in a couple of months, maybe I'll take time to at least move the button to a place separate from the rest of the Roswell focused content.
Anyway, it might be fun to read some old episode-specific comments and crazy "theories" from back when they first aired, or, in many cases, during the first reruns.

 

But @AnnaRose, I actually liked the primary colors (red-yellow-blue) color scheme of Smallville but did quit watching seasons before the end of the series.

 

Maybe the music did help the acting translate better, because honestly, I'm pretty picky about acting and I never really notice it being poor.  (Other than perhaps a few times just before a scene break when the camera lingers too long on a reaction, but I think that's more of a bad directing choice than anything else.)

Also, somebody mentioned above that Jason Behr was not a good actor and that's why his career faltered... I don't think that was the case at all.  I remember reading that he had some type of conflict with his agent or manager and was blacklisted in Hollywood because of it.  (I don't recall the specifics, and of course whoever wrote that could have been mistaken, but I thought it was legit at the time and would explain his absence from mainstream television and film.)

Shapeshifter, that sucks about the poor transfer of your VHS tapes.  I had boxes of those too, and mine were poor quality to begin with.  I always hoped they would do a special collectors edition type DVD release with the original music at some point.   And I think that's awesome that you made that site!  I remember being really into Roswell fandom back then.  This was the first show I ever really fell hard for, and I think that was true for a lot of people.  During its original run, Roswell had the distinction of having the most entertainment-related websites dedicated to it by a wide margin.  Viewers were really captivated by Roswell in a way that doesn't happen very often.  Thanks so much for posting your link - I look forward to browsing through it.  :)

About Smallville - that's interesting about the primary colors.  I guess that must be why it looked so different from Roswell, which had such a wonderful visual richness. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by AnnaRose

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

…don't have the American DVDs, and on the DVD set that I have you can switch between audio tracks and on the non-English audio tracks the original music is still in it…

Wait! What? Can you post info on your DVDs—ideally where they are sold, but an ISBN or a phone pic of the publishing info on the container would work too. TIA!

[bettername2come]

4 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

In terms of music, I really loved the scene in the pilot with Sarah McLachlan's FEAR. I think that was the best moment of the series and I think the reboot should use that song as well, though they will probably not able to capture the scene as magically as in the original. Also props to the opening credits, Dido's Here with Me is just perfect and I loved the design of the credits in the first two seasons.

I really am grateful that that is one of the pieces that stayed. Probably because it was on the original soundtrack album, so they had rights to it.

[AnnaRose]

13 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

In terms of music, I really loved the scene in the pilot with Sarah McLachlan's FEAR. I think that was the best moment of the series and I think the reboot should use that song as well, though they will probably not able to capture the scene as magically as in the original. Also props to the opening credits, Dido's Here with Me is just perfect and I loved the design of the credits in the first two seasons.

 

The replacement music on the DVDs is not bad, actually. I don't have the American DVDs, and on the DVD set that I have you can switch between audio tracks and on the non-English audio tracks the original music is still in it, so it's kind of fun to change the track in-between episodes and watch a scene with different music. In some cases, the replacement music works even better than the original music that they had.

The credits - all four versions - were awesome!  They are my favorite of any series I've followed, and I was so excited when they used the whole song at the end of Destiny.   That was when I first went online and found Crashdown.com, because I thought it was a Sarah MacLachlan song and wanted to know the title.  I was so surprised to find out it wasn't her singing.

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wait! What? Can you post info on your DVDs—ideally where they are sold, but an ISBN or a phone pic of the publishing info on the container would work too. TIA!

I would love to know too.  I have my recordings with the original music, but when I watch I sacrifice picture quality and it's such a beautiful show.

[slf]

My possibly unpopular opinions about this show are:

1) it would've been more interesting if instead of the premise being about a human and an alien falling in love it had dealt more specifically with the consequences of Max healing Liz which were introduced later. Liz's DNA changing and her developing abilities was one of the more interesting things the show did and gave Appleby a lot to work with (personally I liked Liz more during that arc than the ones that focused on her relationship with Max). Ditch the romance between Liz and Max - which imo was chemistry-free; Max being very empathetic leads him to heal a mortally wounded human even though it means exposing himself and potentially the other aliens, the human eventually evolves into something else, and the aliens have to integrate this person into their group. 

2) I disliked most of the established pairings and that they felt the need to at least explore potentially pairing each of the aliens with one of the humans (Max/Lix, Michael/Maria, Alex/Isabel). I thought Liz and Michael would've worked better together. I saw a lot of glimpses of what could've been when he stole her diary, his protectiveness in later seasons once they became friends, etc. I thought they had really good chemistry.

3) I thought almost everything to do with the aliens' lives prior to coming to Earth was damn stupid and they should've just gone with survivors-fleeing-a-dying-world or something.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

I have the German DVD set and on the German audio track the original music is still there, but on the English audio track you have the replacement music of course: https://www.amazon.de/Roswell-Die-komplette-Serie-DVDs/dp/B000V2SGHG/ref=sr_1_1?ie

Cool! Is. There an option to play the German audio with English subtitles?

 

 

4 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Something that also would have been interesting if they had done flashbacks to what life was like on the original planet, with the original Alien4 and Isobel's betrayal and relationship with Kivar, but I guess they weren't sure if they were going to be able to do that budget-wise without being silly?

Heh, speaking of silly, I don't really recall, but I may have LOLed when the Dupes were introduced in "Meet the Dupes." 
But the Dupes did give Emilie de Ravin a chance to play a more sympathetic version of Tess.

[blueray]

27 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But the Dupes did give Emilie de Ravin a chance to play a more sympathetic version of Tess.

I have a theory which may or may not make complete sense. But I remember after that episode (and seeing the rest of season 2) that the Tess's were reversed. The Tess we get to know and that betrays them is from the second group. Therefore more "alien" than human.  This on top of being raised by Nasado made her the way she was.  The one that ended up with them is the Tess from this group which has more "human" aspects.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, blueray said:

I have a theory which may or may not make complete sense. But I remember after that episode (and seeing the rest of season 2) that the Tess's were reversed. The Tess we get to know and that betrays them is from the second group. Therefore more "alien" than human.  This on top of being raised by Nasado made her the way she was.  The one that ended up with them is the Tess from this group which has more "human" aspects.

This sounds familiar to me, now that you mention it, @blueray, was it just a fan theory? Or is it in an episode dialogue or a TV series tie-in novel? 

[AnnaRose]

4 hours ago, blueray said:

I have a theory which may or may not make complete sense. But I remember after that episode (and seeing the rest of season 2) that the Tess's were reversed. The Tess we get to know and that betrays them is from the second group. Therefore more "alien" than human.  This on top of being raised by Nasado made her the way she was.  The one that ended up with them is the Tess from this group which has more "human" aspects.

 

27 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This sounds familiar to me, now that you mention it, @blueray, was it just a fan theory? Or is it in an episode dialogue or a TV series tie-in novel? 

I always thought that too - I think it makes perfect sense.  And that theory was discussed a lot on Roswell message boards like Fan Forum back in the day.  That may be why it seems so familiar to you Shapeshifter.

[blueray]

45 minutes ago, AnnaRose said:

 

I always thought that too - I think it makes perfect sense.  And that theory was discussed a lot on Roswell message boards like Fan Forum back in the day.  That may be why it seems so familiar to you Shapeshifter.

That maybe where I saw it too. It's a fan theory.

[bettername2come]

4 hours ago, blueray said:

I have a theory which may or may not make complete sense. But I remember after that episode (and seeing the rest of season 2) that the Tess's were reversed. The Tess we get to know and that betrays them is from the second group. Therefore more "alien" than human.  This on top of being raised by Nasado made her the way she was.  The one that ended up with them is the Tess from this group which has more "human" aspects.

My theory was always just that Tess's human donor was a bitch. We never heard anything bad about original recipe Ava, just that she loved Zan, so I figured New York Ava was just more like her. Michael was supposed to be very much like his human counterpoint according to the granddaughter Laurie, so I just thought Tess must have taken after her human half, along with being raised by an alien sociopath.

[Maelstrom]

I got into this shortly after it ended, when SciFi channel aired the entire series. I loved the first season and thought the second and third were largely a mess. Add me to the chorus that thinks there was so much potential that was never explored. It's frustrating actually, because when Roswell was good, it was damn good. If only.

 

On 4/19/2018 at 4:32 AM, ae2 said:

William Sadler was by far the most memorable part. And not only because he's the Grim Reaper!

Heh! Most excellent reference ;) He did such a good job making Valenti sympathetic despite being an antagonist for the entire first season. His reaction in the scene when Max has brought Kyle back to life always brought a tear to my eye.

On 4/19/2018 at 3:38 PM, Enero said:

Future Max disappearing as he and Liz danced to Sheryl Crow’s “I Still Believe.”

I actually found Future Max far more compelling and believable than teen Max, and wish we could have gotten more of him.

On 4/15/2018 at 3:07 AM, nosleepforme said:

Then, you had the whole Alex storyline, which was sort of okay, but at the same time, it did not really make sense to me, the way it unfolded. It was nice to see Liz and Max as antagonists though.

The Alex storyline was very interesting to me, if not what you'd call well written by any stretch. It came out of nowhere, it made zero sense no matter how you looked at it, and it was a waste of a promising actor. But despite all that, it really grabbed me and wouldn't let me look away. I think what I liked is that it was the first time in the entire series that Liz had her own story, one that didn't revolve around her feelings for Max. It was probably the first time that Liz had any agency of her own. And it was interesting seeing this close-knit group fracture, and how everyone reacted to that. And I cheered when Michael joined her side, because it let us see a side of him that we hadn't necessarily seen much of previously. And also because...

19 hours ago, slf said:

I thought Liz and Michael would've worked better together. I saw a lot of glimpses of what could've been when he stole her diary, his protectiveness in later seasons once they became friends, etc. I thought they had really good chemistry.

I'm with slf, by the end Michael and Liz actually had much more chemistry, and a more interesting dynamic, than Liz and Max.

10 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Something that also would have been interesting if they had done flashbacks to what life was like on the original planet, with the original Alien4 and Isobel's betrayal and relationship with Kivar, but I guess they weren't sure if they were going to be able to do that budget-wise without being silly?

I should preface this by saying I haven't watched this series in a long time, but this brings up something that always bugged me. Once the aliens remembered their home planet and guest aliens were brought on and talked about home, they all talked about it like they were humans. For instance, I think Max at one point says something along the lines of remembering when he fell in love with Tess back home when he saw her hair blowing in the breeze - and I'm thinking, you were all basically Grey aliens, none of you had hair!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

On April 19, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Enero said:

Future Max disappearing as he and Liz danced to Sheryl Crow’s “I Still Believe.”

I actually found Future Max far more compelling and believable than teen Max, and wish we could have gotten more of him

I too thought Future Max was definitely one of the better bits of the series, but IIRC, the Dreamers hated that story.

 

 I thought Colin Hanks was one of the better young actors—perhaps because he grew up in an environment in which acting was a job you did to make a living—which was one reason I hated them killing him off.

[Enero]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I too thought Future Max was definitely one of the better bits of the series, but IIRC, the Dreamers hated that story.

Yep. The Dreamers were not happy at all with the FMax storyline. From what I remember many thought that was one of the worst episodes of S2 and that Max and Liz never recovered from this. I agree with the latter. I thought it was a beautifully tragic development in Max/Liz’s story. However, the writers completely screwed up (pun intended ?) the Max/Liz romance with how they used what happened with FMax to stall out the “Dream.”  Suddenly there was bad teen angst, hour-long alien orgasms (I remember the Dreamers disgust and horror over that one. LOL. SMH), a teen pregnancy and Liz the doormat. SMH.

I backed away from the show at end of S2, but did see and hear about some of the scenes/stories that went on in S3. By that point I could no longer root for Max and Liz and honestly thought she was too young (and smart) to be binding herself to a guy with so much baggage. But I digress. ? 

There were rumors at the time (S2 specifically) that Appleby and Behr could barely stand the sight of each other by this point. Hence TPTB wrote the FMax story so as they’d have limited screentime together.  I don’t know if that is true. During S2 and beyond, there were a LOT of rumors about the cast clashing BTS, along with KH dictating storyline and generally bad behavior by some. If true, I think all of this along with network interference were in part reasons why the show struggled to find an identity and be successful.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Enero

[ParadoxLost]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I too thought Future Max was definitely one of the better bits of the series, but IIRC, the Dreamers hated that story.

I mostly hung out in the spoiled dreamer thread.  I remember liking the Future Max episode.  What I remember is us losing our collective minds in rage in the last four episodes of season 2.  I think there was a level of not really believing they'd actually go there.  But then the killed off Alex and used that to hook up Tess and Max and get her pregnant just for her to betray them all.

I remember posters having voicing regrets over the campaign to save the show.   I think I watched the first episode of season 3 and never tuned back in again.

5 hours ago, Enero said:

There were rumors at the time (S2 specifically) that Appleby and Behr could barely stand the sight of each other by this point. Hence TPTB wrote the FMax story so as they’d have limited screentime together.  I don’t know if that is true. During S2 and beyond, there were a LOT of rumors about the cast clashing BTS, along with KH dictating storyline and generally bad behavior by some. If true, I think all of this along with network interference were in part reasons why the show struggled to find an identity and be successful.

  I always bought that there was friction between Appleby and Behr because of the stuff that Heigl was pulling BTS and that Behr was dating her for most of the series.

The one unique thing about Roswell is that they are the only show I can recall that, for a period of time, did their previouslies by having a character (Maria) explain what had happened (on a chalkboard).  I used to joke that they were explaining episode by episode how they were retconning their own show. 

[shapeshifter]

22 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

The one unique thing about Roswell is that they are the only show I can recall that, for a period of time, did their previouslies by having a character (Maria) explain what had happened (on a chalkboard).

I used to love those and was sad when they went away.

 

9 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

They don't have English subtitles, I'm afraid. 

Thanks for letting me know. If I was still a dedicated fan, I would enjoy the puzzle of digitally splicing in the subtitles.

[CofCinci]

On 4/20/2018 at 10:24 AM, AnnaRose said:

Also, somebody mentioned above that Jason Behr was not a good actor and that's why his career faltered... I don't think that was the case at all.  I remember reading that he had some type of conflict with his agent or manager and was blacklisted in Hollywood because of it.  (I don't recall the specifics, and of course whoever wrote that could have been mistaken, but I thought it was legit at the time and would explain his absence from mainstream television and film.)

Jason Behr’s career was ended by Kevin Spacey. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Jason Behr’s career was ended by Kevin Spacey. 

??

[lavenderblue]

Possibly unpopular, but my favorite mythology was where they started in S1 with the River Dog angle -- I enjoyed a more earthbound approach to deciphering the alien origins compared with the heavier sci-fi they attempted in S2. But honestly, they could've still made that workable if it weren't for the backstage messes.

Also, those Maria chalkboard intros were ridiculous but they were wonderfully useful when I used to do "Funny Screencaps" stories over on Fan Forum. So thanks for going off the rails, late S2 Roswell!

13 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Jason Behr’s career was ended by Kevin Spacey. 

When all the Spacey news came out I flashed back to The Shipping News period and wondered if something went very bad there.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

Also, those Maria chalkboard intros were ridiculous but they were wonderfully useful when I used to do "Funny Screencaps" stories over on Fan Forum. 

I really enjoyed those old screencaps! IIRC, we had to type our own tag codes just bold something, LOL. 

And thanks for reminding me about River Dog, @lavenderblue. I wonder if the new show will include Native Americans.

[AngelKitty]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:39 PM, Maelstrom said:

I got into this shortly after it ended, when SciFi channel aired the entire series.

Me too and I do remember enjoying it but I don't remember too many details. I think I didn't watch when it first aired because I had tried to watch Smallville and just couldn't stand all the teens. For some reason the Roswell teens didn't bother me.

I'm looking forward to the reboot, although, as with most reboots, it sounds like it's going to be completely different.

[Whimsy]

On 4/22/2018 at 2:32 PM, AnnaRose said:

 

I always thought that too - I think it makes perfect sense.  And that theory was discussed a lot on Roswell message boards like Fan Forum back in the day.  That may be why it seems so familiar to you Shapeshifter.

FanForum alum here too!!!  

On 4/20/2018 at 12:14 AM, AnnaRose said:

I was a fan of Sarah McLachlan's for about a decade before this show began, but it did introduce me to a ton of other artists.  I remember Roswell being the first real exposure in the US for Coldplay back then - the band even wrote, at the time, about how grateful they were to have their music featured on the show.  (Then they very quickly blew up in the states.)  Coldplay's "Trouble", during the jeep explosion scene in Departure, was a good example of how they took such care to choreograph the action to the music.

I agree with you Enero that the music was a huge part of what made Roswell so special.  I wish they had been able to release the DVDs with the original music.  It really irks me that they had to replace it.   I bought at least 25 CDs because of music featured on Roswell during the original run.  For the DVDs, they should have negotiated keeping the music and adding a feature at the end of each episode.  They could have included "music by"... and the music clip/album cover for a reduced licensing fee and free advertising for the band.  Stupid, greedy music industry!!

I still watch Roswell, probably every year or two.  I bought the commercial DVDs, but I normally just watch the recordings I made with the original music.  I bought an expensive DVD recorder back in 2003 and recorded the reruns on Sci-Fi to DVD-RAM discs. (Which were also very expensive back then... and the reason why I put two episodes on each disc and later regretted that I didn't save it to better quality when the music was replaced.)

I have up to 100 markers per episode, so I just click, click, click to all of my favorite lines and moments... so it isn't boring for me to rewatch.  I actually watch all three seasons very quickly.  (If I didn't have it set up like that, I would probably rarely watch my commercial DVDs.)  It still has a lot of magic left for me.

I think if I watched the official DVDs more often I would probably find them somewhat boring like others have mentioned... not just because of it being harder to skip the slower, less interesting parts (or parts that I don't like), but also because of the missing original music.  Although the team generally chose the replacement music fairly well - at times I was quite impressed how well they captured the feeling of the scene - the big fail for me was when the original music was just replaced with generic score.  One egregious example I recall was the end of the fourth episode, Leaving Normal, after Liz's grandmother dies.  The original featured Sarah McLachlan's "I Love You" during the scene when Max and Liz have their first hug, and it highlights and amplifies the emotions beautifully.  In the official DVDs, the score makes the scene seem kind of slow and flat to me.

Even minor songs that were removed, like "I think I'm Paranoid" during the Pilot after Max confesses to Michael and Isabel that he told Liz, diminished the show in the DVDs and streaming.  That song fit what was going on so perfectly and really heightened the sense of paranoia the characters were going through.  Another background song that accentuated the intensity of the story was in the first season when Valenti gives the gang back the orb.  The original episode had this song playing during the whole scene, and it was cut in the DVDs/streaming version.  These weren't major songs for the show, but they added significantly to the whole Roswell vibe that the original show had.

Roswell's very specific "Roswellian" vibe was diluted without the original music.  And it was crazy disappointing that they weren't able to keep Gomez's "We Haven't Turned Around" during Max and Liz's first kiss.  The replacement song had a similar sound, but the whole "it's not for sale" lyrics just seem wrong for that scene.

The other thing I love about Roswell, other than the music, characters, relationships, intrigue and friendships is the small-town, desert southwest setting.  The art direction - lighting - cinematography is fantastic, and it has such a wonderful sense of place that is so unique to Roswell.  I remember stumbling upon Smallville (the WB's replacement for Roswell) back in the day, and visually it looked so cheap and cartoonish compared to Roswell.

I agree x1,000.  I was limewiring songs back then and made about 4 (give or take, I don't remember exactly) Roswell CD's.  When I finally got an ipod I transferred all the songs over.  Now they're on my phone and I was happily jamming along to Waiting for the Aliens just the other day.  But, those two songs you mentioned (bolded mine), Fear and Here with Me just pang me in the heart every single time I hear them.  

On 4/20/2018 at 10:24 AM, AnnaRose said:

I remember being really into Roswell fandom back then.  This was the first show I ever really fell hard for, and I think that was true for a lot of people.  During its original run, Roswell had the distinction of having the most entertainment-related websites dedicated to it by a wide margin.  Viewers were really captivated by Roswell in a way that doesn't happen very often.  Thanks so much for posting your link - I look forward to browsing through it.  :)

Buffy was the first show I fell really hard for, but I came into that at the very end of season 2 (Becoming Part 1, to be exact), scrambled to get copies of the episodes on VCR on ebay so I could catch up and read every single thing I possibly could before season 2 started.  Right during the height of that came Roswell.  For me, the ONLY shows I have ever been that obsessed with and still mean so very much to me today are Buffy, Angel, Roswell and Veronica Mars.  And, I was too old for those shows even when they started! ;)

On 4/22/2018 at 5:28 PM, shapeshifter said:

I too thought Future Max was definitely one of the better bits of the series, but IIRC, the Dreamers hated that story.

I guess I was a Dreamer by default since I really loved Max and Liz, but I didn't hate the Future Max story.  Maybe it's just me. 

On 4/23/2018 at 12:01 AM, ParadoxLost said:

I remember posters having voicing regrets over the campaign to save the show.   I think I watched the first episode of season 3 and never tuned back in again.

Heh.  I sent a case of the mini Tabasco sauces during that campaign.  I stuck it through to the bitter end.  Mostly I had bittersweet feelings about that show as a whole.  I didn't love everywhere they took the storylines and thought they had so much more potential. I was also very interested in where they were going with River Dog and all of that for it to just be dropped.  Anyway, this is fun to go down memory lane with you all!

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, Whimsy said:

FanForum alum here too!!!  

✋<—virtual high five

 

8 hours ago, Whimsy said:

For me, the ONLY shows I have ever been that obsessed with and still mean so very much to me today are Buffy, Angel, Roswell and Veronica Mars.  And, I was too old for those shows even when they started! ;)

We must be the same age!

 

9 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I guess I was a Dreamer by default since I really loved Max and Liz, but I didn't hate the Future Max story.  Maybe it's just me

Nah, me too!

[shapeshifter]

On 4/14/2018 at 4:48 PM, blueray said:

I just started re-watching this recently. Its nice to see it has a board now. I've always liked this show and it's on hulu which is nice.

An idea!
***"At Work And Can't Stay Off The Boards" or I would use a light bulb icon from my iPad or iPhone.***

• After 20 years, I am guessing the rights to the original music are less expensive now.
• And Hulu has a pretty big budget.
• So (maybe start packing your mini Tabasco sauce bottles):
  I bet Hulu could turn a profit if they bought the rights to the original music and re-aired the series with ads touting the musicians and "First Time Released With Original Music!" as well as mentioning the new show if it takes off.

Maybe since I have this idea, there is also a wonk at Hulu right now who is paid to come up with ideas and is thinking of the same thing--maybe thanks to his old Auntie.

[AnnaRose]

On 4/26/2018 at 12:59 PM, Whimsy said:

FanForum alum here too!!!  

I agree x1,000.  I was limewiring songs back then and made about 4 (give or take, I don't remember exactly) Roswell CD's.  When I finally got an ipod I transferred all the songs over.  Now they're on my phone and I was happily jamming along to Waiting for the Aliens just the other day.  But, those two songs you mentioned (bolded mine), Fear and Here with Me just pang me in the heart every single time I hear them.  

Buffy was the first show I fell really hard for, but I came into that at the very end of season 2 (Becoming Part 1, to be exact), scrambled to get copies of the episodes on VCR on ebay so I could catch up and read every single thing I possibly could before season 2 started.  Right during the height of that came Roswell.  For me, the ONLY shows I have ever been that obsessed with and still mean so very much to me today are Buffy, Angel, Roswell and Veronica Mars.  And, I was too old for those shows even when they started! ;)

I guess I was a Dreamer by default since I really loved Max and Liz, but I didn't hate the Future Max story.  Maybe it's just me. 

Heh.  I sent a case of the mini Tabasco sauces during that campaign.  I stuck it through to the bitter end.  Mostly I had bittersweet feelings about that show as a whole.  I didn't love everywhere they took the storylines and thought they had so much more potential. I was also very interested in where they were going with River Dog and all of that for it to just be dropped.  Anyway, this is fun to go down memory lane with you all!

Hello fellow Fan-Forum alum!  Thanks for posting. :)

I still have folders with all the Roswell songs, sorted in the order they appeared, and I spent a lot of time tracking down the replacement music too, even though I was so upset that it was changed.  They did make some good choices, and there were some that I would say were equally good, but none that I thought were an improvement compared to the originals.

I was a big fan of Buffy too.  I bought the Buffy box set, but I don't rewatch it that often because it's so much darker than my other favorites Roswell and Chuck, but mainly because of the time commitment involved.  But I do love it.  (I also loved Veronica Mars too, but almost never rewatch that either, for some reason.)

If I remember correctly, Waiting for the Aliens was removed from the beginning of The Convention episode, wasn't it?   Which is just ridiculous because it fit the show and that episode so perfectly.   They got a lot of mileage out of the alien theme in this show.  I love how unique that made it.

I was a Max and Liz fan too, and I not only didn't mind the Future Max story, I kind of loved it.  End of the World is easily one of my top five episodes.   Jason Behr looked so different, it really did seem like he was this whole other person.  And the end when Liz gets her wedding dance and he's so delicate with her and they look at each other so lovingly... and then he disappears!   It still makes me sob when I watch it.  Jason and Shiri were fantastic in it.

I never sent Tobasco sauce but there was a campaign in which I participated, at the end of its run, and I somehow received a bottle of Tobasco sauce from the manufacturer.  One of the Roswell writers had (has?) a son with a childhood disease (maybe osteogenesis imperfecta or something?) and the campaign was to show your support for Roswell by donating to that cause instead of sending Tobasco.  So I did that, and was surprised when, many months later I received a bottle of some kind of special flavor Tobasco.  Maybe chipotle Tobasco or something, I don't remember.

If you were on Fan Forum at the time, you may remember some of this.  The site was also offering chances to win set memorabilia if you donated, like those retro lights that hung in the Crashdown.  I remember the site crashing around the time they were supposed to announce the winners, and then I never read anything else about it.  I wonder where all that stuff ended up?

About Riverdog:  I loved the Native American aspect of Roswell so very much!  It added a wonderful air of mystery and mysticism to the show, and reinforced that everything was really taking place in a small town in New Mexico rather than a generic Hollywood setting.  I recall listening to Thania St. John on the DVD commentary for The Balance episode and she went on and on about how she basically hated that they used so much of the Native American stuff in the show, and especially in her episode.  I remember rolling my eyes a lot during that commentary.  She had no appreciation for how much it enhanced her script.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

recall listening to Thania St. John on the DVD commentary for The Balance episode and she went on and on about how she basically hated that they used so much of the Native American stuff in the show, and especially in her episode.  I remember rolling my eyes a lot during that commentary.  She had no appreciation for how much it enhanced her script.

What was her complaint? Was it cultural appropriation and/or misuse (a worthwhile complaint, except I don't think it fits here) or something else?

BTW, Ned Romero, who played River Dog, passed away last November (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Romero).

[AnnaRose]

37 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

What was her complaint? Was it cultural appropriation and/or misuse (a worthwhile complaint, except I don't think it fits here) or something else?

BTW, Ned Romero, who played River Dog, passed away last November (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Romero).

Maybe that's what she was getting at, but that wasn't how it came across to me.  Then again, I haven't listened to it in a very long time, so I may be misremembering. 

Personally, I don't consider it any kind of cultural appropriation or misappropriation.  They represented it in a very respectful way, and Native American culture is something that is very present in New Mexico.  Why would it be wrong to include it?

It looks like Ned Romero/ Riverdog had a nice career, and was only in his mid 70s when he was on Roswell.  I believe Thania made a disparaging remark on the commentary about his age.    I thought he was great in his episodes. 

[phoenics]

I'm a fanforum alum too - wow!  Didn't know there were so many of us here.

I was a complete Dreamer - and it wasn't that I didn't like the Future Max episode - I just hated that they never - NEVER resolved it and Kevin Kelly Brown or Jason Katims said that we were "supposed to assume that Liz told Max about Future Max" sometime after Departure.

Um, no.

Future Max was such a major plot point in S2, used to split up Max and Liz AND to sideline Liz and turn her into wallpaper that it was a huge fan betrayal for them not to resolve it properly.  Michael and Isabel never knew what Liz sacrificed to keep them from dying.  Max never understood WHY Liz faked sleeping with Kyle.  Everything Liz (and fans) endured that season led to a hot mess - that eventually resulted in Alex DEAD (he wasn't in the original timeline), Tess PREGNANT and Max/Liz in ruins.

Worse - they dropped the Liz powers thing until S3 when they should have gone deeper with that in S2.

I didn't mind the extra sci-fi in S2 - what I minded was the human characters turning into props (that only existed to service the alien characters) and Katherine Heigl taking over the show and running around with her chest heaving all over the place.  They kept that nonsense up in S3 too - even though the ratings did not favor KH.  In fact, the ratings only went up in S2 once Shiri Appleby's Liz was back front and center and driving the "Who Killed Alex" storyline.  In S3, the show dropped into last place after that AWFUL "So I married an Alien" episode.  Once Shiri was back front and center the show started a slow climb out of last place, but it was much too late.

KH destroyed Roswell.

There were rumors that Jason liked Shiri in S1, but she told him that she didn't date her costars.  She reconsidered, but by then he was with KH.  As if that wasn't awkward enough, KH pulled some of the cast together to go to TPTB to lobby to have Shiri's screentime reduced so they (really she) could get more screentime.  S2 had a very different feel to it - with Shiri wallpapered.  That added to the discomfort on set.  Shiri said in an interview that her friendship with Colin Hanks was a saving grace for her.  I'm sure it was really tough for her when he left - although by then I think she and Majondra had become much closer.

I do not believe rumors that Shiri and Jason hate each other (or that they ever did).  I do think it got awkward with them in between S1 and S2.  But they still hang out to this day.  Shiri just posted on twitter/instagram a pic of her and Jason.  Apparently they had lunch together.

Anyway - KH's behavior on Roswell made me refuse to watch her on Gray's.  I literally tried to warn folks too but no one listened and then she just proved me right about who she was.  And she keeps doing it.  The karma that keeps visiting her is SO well deserved after all of her dirt.

Whew.  That was cathartic, lol.

[AnnaRose]

On 5/5/2018 at 5:31 PM, phoenics said:

...I didn't mind the extra sci-fi in S2 - what I minded was the human characters turning into props (that only existed to service the alien characters) and Katherine Heigl taking over the show and running around with her chest heaving all over the place.  They kept that nonsense up in S3 too - even though the ratings did not favor KH.  In fact, the ratings only went up in S2 once Shiri Appleby's Liz was back front and center and driving the "Who Killed Alex" storyline.  In S3, the show dropped into last place after that AWFUL "So I married an Alien" episode.  Once Shiri was back front and center the show started a slow climb out of last place, but it was much too late.

KH destroyed Roswell.

There were rumors that Jason liked Shiri in S1, but she told him that she didn't date her costars.  She reconsidered, but by then he was with KH.  As if that wasn't awkward enough, KH pulled some of the cast together to go to TPTB to lobby to have Shiri's screentime reduced so they (really she) could get more screentime.  S2 had a very different feel to it - with Shiri wallpapered.  That added to the discomfort on set.  Shiri said in an interview that her friendship with Colin Hanks was a saving grace for her.  I'm sure it was really tough for her when he left - although by then I think she and Majondra had become much closer.

Not denying that Katherine Heigl had a hand in what happened with her character getting way too much screen time, but I was just listening to a very long interview with Shiri, and I was surprised by what she said about why the focus of the show turned away from her and toward another unnamed actor.  You can hear what Shiri has to say about it here, beginning around the 22 minute mark.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, AnnaRose said:

Not denying that Katherine Heigl had a hand in what happened with her character getting way too much screen time, but I was just listening to a very long interview with Shiri, and I was surprised by what she said about why the focus of the show turned away from her and toward another unnamed actor.  You can hear what Shiri has to say about it here, beginning around the 22 minute mark.

Thank you for posting that, @AnnaRose. It explains so much.

[phoenics]

21 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

Not denying that Katherine Heigl had a hand in what happened with her character getting way too much screen time, but I was just listening to a very long interview with Shiri, and I was surprised by what she said about why the focus of the show turned away from her and toward another unnamed actor.  You can hear what Shiri has to say about it here, beginning around the 22 minute mark.

Thanks for that.  I do think that was a relevant point - but that's not the only reason they turned left.  Shiri also said that she thought she could continue to lead the show - just show up and do her job acting - she did not realize that not doing the publicity would tank her.  I really wish someone could have told her - she needed a better agent, to be honest - who could explain what would likely happen to her if she didn't do it.

I think Shiri is telling this as her own hindsight is 20/20 moment - but that still doesn't mean she wasn't shafted.  By WB and people like KH who took advantage of the fact that she really didn't realize what was happening.  She was surprised to be wallpapered.  I'm glad she was able to learn a lesson from it - but it doesn't erase what else happened, nor how shady it was.

But that explains A LOT - because KH was definitely not afraid to promote herself at just about any cost.  

Given what happened behind the scenes, I do think that all of these things played a part - but part of me wonders if Shiri would have been as reticent about "fame" had she not been surrounded by KH and other people trying to take her lead time before this conversation ever happened.  That conversation about going from a Fox production to the WB illustrates that there is some drama there between Shiri and The WB that probably added to her hesitation.

And no, it's hard to deny KH did those things because she went on to do similar mess on nearly every project she worked on after the fact.  

Edited May 9, 2018 by phoenics

[tessaray]

I went ahead and created a topic for discussing behind the scenes stuff. to use going forward.  

[shapeshifter]

16 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

. . . but I was just listening to a very long interview with Shiri, and I was surprised by what she said about why the focus of the show turned away from her and toward another unnamed actor.  You can hear what Shiri has to say about it here, beginning around the 22 minute mark.

This first fresh take on behind the scenes since we passed the time frame of Future Max seemed like a good place to begin this discussion.

I always related to both Shiri and her character, and now this interview makes me feel even more like she's my alter-(Hollywood)ego.

[slf]

I still can't believe that the writers decided to write Max as such a prick in the back half of season two when they intended to reunite him and Liz. He's domineering, condescending, entitled, and manhandles Liz and Isabel quite a bit.

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, slf said:

I still can't believe that the writers decided to write Max as such a prick in the back half of season two when they intended to reunite him and Liz. He's domineering, condescending, entitled, and manhandles Liz and Isabel quite a bit.

I think they thought that the whole "Max embracing his alien side makes him a giant prick" theme would play well with fans but it didn't.  They tripled downed on that awful "embracing your alien side makes you a prick" by making Michael even more of a prick when he "got the King seal" in S3.  He went from Michael to super-@sshole instantly.  

One thing I hated about the S2&3 writing for this show was that they double and triple-downed on storyline themes that fans soundly rejected - I think they thought forcing stuff down our throats would make us accept it but it just turned folks off.