Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Starfish35]

I just had a thought about the apparent name change from Starling City to Star City. It's a reach, but....perhaps it's done in Ray's honor? If the city assumes him dead and he was the one to make the suggestion in the first place?

[olicityfan25]

Oh yeah maybe! That makes sense.

[kismet]

In the Eonline interview with SA & EBR (which was wicked adorable!!), EBR mentioned she wanted to work with Victor Garber. Well, I concur! Now I really want her & VG to have some cool crossover interaction - I don't even care which show. I will follow that pairing anywhere.

[Morena]

In the Eonline interview with SA & EBR (which was wicked adorable!!), EBR mentioned she wanted to work with Victor Garber. Well, I concur! Now I really want her & VG to have some cool crossover interaction - I don't even care which show. I will follow that pairing anywhere.

he was one of my favorites to be Felicity's dad

[Trini]

Anyone think we'll have at least one more Suicide Squad episode next season? I know the movie is in play, but it will be released months after the season is over. The Arrow SS and movie SS are (or can be) different enough so that I don't think it should be a problem for DC/WB.

[EmilyBettFan]

I think so. The episode did well, so I think they will capitalize on it plus it's Diggle. Who wouldn't make an episode based on him?

[DrSpaceman10]

So if Felicity moved out of her apartment, does that mean she's "homeless" or is she getting a new place? It'd be nice to have scenes that take place somewhere other than QC and the (new) Foundry. I also wonder if Oliver/Thea's loft is still around. 

[AyChihuahua]

So if Felicity moved out of her apartment, does that mean she's "homeless" or is she getting a new place? It'd be nice to have scenes that take place somewhere other than QC and the (new) Foundry. I also wonder if Oliver/Thea's loft is still around. 

I figured she moved in with Oliver and Thea.  Kind of awkward, but it's already a little awkward that Oliver and Thea live together as adults, so whatevs.

[DrSpaceman10]

Made even more awkward by the fact that Oliver/Thea's loft doesn't appear to have bedrooms. 

[NoWayOut]

1. Felicity moves out and continues to live on her own

2. Felicity moves into the loft with Oliver and Thea

3. Felicity moves in with Laurel

4. Thea moves in with Laurel leaving the loft to Oliver and Felicity

5. Oliver and Felicity get a new place of their own

[SmallScreenDiva]

So if Felicity moved out of her apartment, does that mean she's "homeless" or is she getting a new place? It'd be nice to have scenes that take place somewhere other than QC and the (new) Foundry. I also wonder if Oliver/Thea's loft is still around. 

 

I'm guessing an "are we moving in together" talk between Felicity and Oliver in the first ep will solve the housing dilemma ;) If "Arrow" is indeed going to show them as a couple together, I'm guessing one of the new sets will be their home (I hope it includes a bedroom!).

[Carrie Ann]

I wouldn't be surprised if they sacrificed the loft set for a new Oliver/Felicity home set. Thea could go on living in the loft; they just wouldn't have scenes there.

[AyChihuahua]

Made even more awkward by the fact that Oliver/Thea's loft doesn't appear to have bedrooms. 

Right!  Because it's just awesome that Thea thought it was a good idea to have sex with DJ Douchebag on the couch in the living room, knowing Oliver could come home anytime.  I mean, there's getting caught by your friends or strangers (embarrassing but kind of funny), and then there's getting caught by an immediate family member (horrifying and traumatizing).  I just don't get a lot of what they did with Oliver's and Thea's sibling relationship in S3. 

[kismet]

So with all of the hoopla about the goatee demands and the photoshops of SA in that horrible goatees where he looks like a lost body double for an old Robin Hood movie. It made me sorta wish that we got to see FS's apt again. I know MG said we most likely will not see it. But there are two hangings in there that I would like her to explain. I want to know why she had that poster with the people in the eye masks and the Robin Hood poster. I'm just really curious as to what came first her decorations inspired by interests in masks, archery, & Robin hood. Or was it her involvement in the Hood that inspired those decorative choices. I guess I'm just curious....

 

I also always have this self made canon in my head that says that FS was into archery long before she met the Hood. I sorta think that she is a skilled archer on her own merit. Maybe just a casual archery buff with some casual skills, but still an interest in it that extends beyond her initial interactions with the Hood in s1. She just seemed familiar around bows & arrows even if she claimed to not get why they were all the rage.

 

I guess its a silly hope, but part of me just wants some of those set details to be explained to us. The set designers clearly went to some effort to not just throw up random art, so its makes me really curious if there is more behind the story or if it was just the set designers being a little cheeky.

 

Then again depending on how deep her interest in robin hood & archery goes, I wonder if we won't get some sexy dress-up fun between FS & OQ. Because how could TPTB miss the perfect opportunity to appease comic canon & olicity fanatics in one sexy dress-up scene - perhaps post costume ball mission.

[BkWurm1]

I really have a thing for sword fighting and fencing but I have zero skill so I think she could have a real fondness for Robin Hood or even archery without any skills. 

[KenyaJ]

IIRC, she told Oliver in "Year's End" that she thought archery was a stupid hobby. So I doubt she has any archery skills. I think the Robin Hood poster was merely a wink and a nod from the set designer, but if you asked the writers, they'd probably say it was there because she liked the movie.

[kismet]

I consider FS's dismissal of archery the same way I do OQ's refusal to dance. Thou doth protest too much! I think they both secretly love it and are trying to seem wicked cool or smooth about it. But that is just my head canon :)

[kismet]

Regarding SA's reactions to Arrow e1-5 from Behind social media twitter vids. No real concrete spoiler info, so this is more just my speculation.

 

The "Meh" for e4 - I don't know... he didn't seem 100% Sober, and when SA is not 100% sober he tends to let a little more of his real feelings show rather than the more polished PR feelings. So "Meh" may actually be really about how he feels about that episode. My guess is that episode will be Ray centric. It kinda makes sense that s1-3 will be Lance resurrection, DD & FB set-up heavy. Plus it will be Green Arrow getting back into the field. So likely, e4 will be a good time to drop a Ray centric/filler episode, since we need to set-up his great rescue for the spin-off. I honestly don't think SA really cares too much about Ray's arc, so this might be a Meh episode for him (probably for me as well if it turns out to be RP-centric).

 

But if it turns out to be an amazing episode and SA was just be sarcastic, I will be over the moon over that as well :) I can't even respond to the "he came" speculation for e5, my head is all in the gutter no legit analysis able to be formulated by my brain at this point based on that comment.

 

As for his reactions to last yrs eps - I think his reactions were pretty much spot on, I know our speculation about what they could be were all over the place. But his reactions made sense after each episode aired. Although not all of our speculations/theories made sense.

[kismet]

I just want to send the writers copies of Alias. Because I feel like they could learn a lot from Sloan on how to write a long-term villain with deep emotional connections that would benefit how they write MM. Also Sydney was kickass & able to have emotions, she wasn't just bitchy/hard like they have been writing LL to make her BC. They also managed to create successful platonic, romantic & familial working relationships with good team dynamics.

 

I also feel that they handled some cast bloat well. They let some of the villain & recurring characters simmer off camera & bring them back seasons or episodes later. I feel like Arrow likes to resolve every character conflict, when really they would benefit from having some characters that just linger & come back every so often to reek havoc. They seem to have a 2 episode max, where they either arrest/kill them on their repeat episode. TA doesn't need to win every battle. They can save the day, but the villain can still get away. I think it would make for a better serialized show if they move some villains into unknown status. Perhaps even helping them out at times for the greater good, like Sark did from time to time. It also goes for allies, I love having Tatsu out there as a potential ally, but I don't need to see her every week or even every season.

[BunsenBurner]

I hope that Diggle or Oliver are talking and baby Sara is holding a stuffed animal. Sara raises it up to them and says, "bird" then Oliver looks at her and says, "Pretty bird just like you Sara."

Edited August 15, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[calliope1975]

I'm curious as to who TPTB will do with all the masks in the lair this year. I though it was quite poorly handled last year, but hopefully, someone's learned something and it won't be a repeat of the same this year. I think it can be done as I thought they did well when Team Flash visited last year and Lyla was brought in. It didn't feel crowded to me. I just hope they can recreate those types of scenes and camaraderie this year. 

[statsgirl]

I think what worked with Lyla last year is that the combinations of characters felt organic.  Oliver and Barry with Roy/Diggle/Cisco out in the field, Felicity/Caitlyn and later Lyla in the lair.  Cisco geeking out and bonding with Roy about the colour red. 

 

Whatever they do, I hope it makes logical sense.  Thea and Laurel going out together as the two most junior members?  I don't know. And Oliver is going to have to do a 180 to go out with Laurel.

[BkWurm1]

I don't think Laurel will be treated as a junior member by the start of season four. The tricky part for me is then why would Thea still be treated like side kick? Are they going to hobble her with LP issues?

[Chaser]

It is interesting. Laurel has been in a mask longer then Thea and Diggle, but Diggle has the most experience and Thea has better, more diverse training. 

[statsgirl]

Someone has to be the person in charge because the team can't be run by referendum, and that will probably be Oliver since a) it's his Team and b) it's his show.  (I wonder who will be in charge of LoT, and Team Flash now that Wells is gone bad.)

 

The question is, who is second-in-command?  It should be Diggle with his military experience and his years helping Oliver, but there is the Black Canary's comic book destiny so I don't trust them not to leap-frog Laurel ahead of Diggle.  They did that with Sara in s2 but she was more deserving of it.

 

I think Thea will be a sidekick just because someone needs to take the role Roy had last season.  She's not a major comic book character, she's new on the team and she's the youngest by quite a bit.

[Starfish35]

Laurel is really the biggest question mark for me for this season, because other than the Sara plot, I have no idea what they're planning for her. I feel like I have a fair idea of what's happening with everyone else,but not her. I just have no idea how this is going to work with her now being officially on the team. :(

[kismet]

LL has never felt like an organic part of the show or the team. But with her comic destiny, she should be 2nd in command. Even though it makes no logistical sense considering Dig's training & experience. Which is why I think she will be the person that does not live up to her comic book potential.  SL felt organic to the story in s2a, but then they overdid her influence/role and then over-corrected by killing her.

 

Frankly, I'm scared because it seems like TPTB sometimes have a twisted sense of the Goldilocks Principle. They spend so much time getting everything just right and then they just freak out and overdue it. It happened with Moira, Sara, Shado, Roy, Felicity & even Tommy a little. They finally had worked the characters into a sweet spot & then bam they intentionally blew it up for plot.

 

Moira would have been perfect as fallen maternal figure stuck in jail to either rehabilitate or come out more evil a few seasons later. But no, they felt the need to violently kill her for plot. Sara & Shado helped make Oliver the person/fighter he is & then they both were sacrificed as LIs gone wrong. Sara may have survived Ivo's bullet, but her journey to present day LI only weakened her character. Poor Shado became a revenge plot point & long lost twin fit for cheesy soaps. Roy finally becomes a fun sidekick, only to be fake killed & shipped out of town. Felicity gets moved to from supporting to LI, loses her character in a ridiculous love triangle to boost another character & has an overdose of seasonal angst. At least with Tommy, when they realized they were over tweaking him, they just killed him but let him come back in senseless flashbacks.

 

I just fear it, because the writers & TPTB have proven that they can get it just right, but they still feel the need to tinker with it until they ruin it. Their penchant to overknead the dough, really concerns me especially with the expanding cast & masks.

[dtissagirl]

Oops, wrong thread.

Edited August 17, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Guest]

I think there was brief discussion of this in the spoiler thread the other day but I'm just throwing in my two cents too. What I'd really like to see in s4 is Oliver being the supportive boyfriend. I'd like to see Felicity maybe struggling with something and not knowing what to do and Oliver offering her unconditional support, in all the ways she's done for the last three years. We saw a brief glimpse of that in 305 when Cooper appeared and Oliver calmed her down, got her to take a breath etc…but I would like to see more. 

 

And this also applies to his relationship with Diggle too. I'd like to see Oliver giving Diggle the pep talk and being a good friend. Also with Thea. I'd like them to build on their sibling relationship from last season. I'm kind of bored of Oliver needing pep talks all the time. Let's shake things up.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Guest

[kismet]

I'm all for OQ to be super supportive BF to FS & friend to Diggle. Bring on the reverse pep talks! OQ was great in 305, I hope to see more of that.

 

Gosh knows if the old training adage holds "see one, do one, teach one" than OQ is on his way to being a really good pep talker giver.

[BkWurm1]

I think there was brief discussion of this in the spoiler thread the other day but I'm just throwing in my two cents too. What I'd really like to see in s4 is Oliver being the supportive boyfriend. I'd like to see Felicity maybe struggling with something and not knowing what to do and Oliver offering her unconditional support, in all the ways she's done for the last three years. We saw a brief glimpse of that in 305 when Cooper appeared and Oliver calmed her down, got her to take a breath etc…but I would like to see more. 

 

And this also applies to his relationship with Diggle too. I'd like to see Oliver giving Diggle the pep talk and being a good friend. Also with Thea. I'd like them to build on their sibling relationship from last season. I'm kind of bored of Oliver needing pep talks all the time. Let's shake things up.

Now someone get those instructions in MG's hands before the entire season is written!

[tv echo]

Cross-posting from Vixen thread -- the 5-min pilot was released on CW Seed today (can watch for free, only Oliver and Barry appeared in the pilot)...

Stayed through the closing credits (I'm Marvel-trained that way) and noticed these guest credits (although Felicity and Cisco didn't appear in the pilot):

(screenshot source)

I really, really hope that Mari (Vixen) can be brought into the Flarrow universe as a live-action person.  I'd love to see her on Arrow in a future episode, interacting with Oliver, Felicity and Diggle - and hopefully even John Constantine in the future.

Edited August 25, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

My hope is that the writers/TPTB are more comfortable moving away from certain elements of their 5-6 year plan when it comes to Oliver's romantic life. My fear is that they will stick to the outline they drew and just substitute Felicity into Laurel's spot. And we will get another s3 of why does this feel all wrong but still can be broken down to fit the certain criteria. Like a key that fits the slot but won't turn or open the door.

 

I was thinking about the "Star-Crossed Lovers" adventure they had planned for L/O and it works. There were actual forces that brought 2 people intensely together and then inexplicably ripped them apart. There was the Gambit, divergent career paths/life choices, socioeconomic factors and just life itself. There was an inevitability to their coupledom and their ultimate break-ups. The on/off nature worked as S-C lovers, because its seemed like they always orbited around each other but could never get it right. This fact also contributed to the doomed star-crossed nature of their relationship.

 

The nature of O/F is not "star-crossed" by any means. It has a far more Soulmate vibe to it. Where 2 people are drawn together by forces and in many ways find missing pieces of themselves in the other. They are very symbiotic and nurturing together, regardless of romance. They complement each other. Its why s1&2 worked as their foundation, because they were was an immediate recognition of the other (the trust you scene in coffee shop as an example), but also had the gradual building & development of a deep bond. Its inevitable in a way that feels more like fortuitous destiny and less like a doomed fate.

 

Its why I think s3 did not work for O/F, they wrote a Star-Crossed plot line for a Soulmate couple. There were not any external forces that were keeping OQ & FS apart from each other in s3. It was primarily all internal motivation, fears & hopes on each side. There will always be external forces in every couple, but that is not what is bringing O/F together and/or tearing them apart. it they were truly star-crossed, than eventually the external forces would be the driving force of destruction which is ultimately what happened with L/O. There was just too much for them to overcome. S3 story arc might have worked for the Star-Crossed lovers of L/O because they finally would have overcome their fated obstacles. But it failed miserably for the Soulmated lovers of O/F, because really all they had to do was pull their heads out of their colons and talk to each other. Their biggest obstacle was each other, not some big external forces.

 

There will always be external & internal forces that reek havoc on relationships, that is life. There will always be a little bit of kismet that drives the success & failures of relationships. But the writers need to learn to do is stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes, because it was part of the plan. So much of s3 angst & failed for plot points might have been avoided if they realized they were writing for one type of couple instead of just substituting in for other failed type couple. I appreciate that MG said they had to choose a horse, I think they chose the right horse in O/F - I think they just put the wrong bridle on it for s3. My hope is that they recognize this and make adjustments accordingly for future seasons. They are no longer writing Star-Crossed lovers, they are writing Soulmates. My fear is that they might forget that from time to time and we will get s3 part deux.

Edited August 28, 2015 by kismet

[Chaser]

As much as I am not a fan of either term, I have to agree with the premise. They added a tortured element to Oliver and Felicity which made absolutely no sense given their established relationship.

 

They Luke and Lorelai'd them.

[tarotx]

Imo only Sara and Oliver could be star cross lovers. Oliver and Laurel were more high school sweet hearts who grew apart and eventual broke up. And a what if or if only aspect about it. Felicity and Oliver are good friends who (at least in s1 through episode 1 of s3) naturally grew into more.

[wonderwall]

Ohhh if we're going to make comparisons... They're not perfect comparisons but: 

 

Laurel/Oliver - Rory/Dean: High school sweethearts, Rory broke Dean's heart when she started liking Jess (Oliver breaks Laurel's heart by cheating on her), they just weren't good for one another and finally break up because they're just too different and at different points in their lives

 

Oliver/Felicity - Luke/Lorelai

 

Sara/Oliver - Christopher/Lorelai? 

 

hmmm

[BkWurm1]

Ohhh if we're going to make comparisons... They're not perfect comparisons but: 

 

Laurel/Oliver - Rory/Dean: High school sweethearts, Rory broke Dean's heart when she started liking Jess (Oliver breaks Laurel's heart by cheating on her), they just weren't good for one another and finally break up because they're just too different and at different points in their lives

 

Oliver/Felicity - Luke/Lorelai

 

Sara/Oliver - Christopher/Lorelai? 

 

hmmm

Nope. I hate Christopher, the weak willed weenie, too much to let Sara be smeared in a comparison.

I will say that Rory makes a surprising good "Ollie" with kissing Tristan and falling for Jess but then later when Dean was married ( I guess Lindsey would be Tommy) she cheats with him and says well, he was my boyfriend first. And then runs off to Europe for a few months, leaving the mess behind. (But Europe for real in her case).

[wonderwall]

Nope. I hate Christopher, the weak willed weenie, too much to let Sara be smeared in a comparison.

 

I actually think that Lorelai/Chris is a fair comparison. Not that I'm directly comparing Sara to Chris, but the nature of the two relationships are rather similar. Lorelai and Chris are both cut from the same cloth. They're really similar people who've had a similar childhood experience just as how Oliver/Sara have had a similar experience their 5 years away. Chris left Lorelai the first time in S2 because he thought it was the right thing to do just like how Sara left Oliver because it was the right thing to do (considering she felt he deserved someone better than her). And just like how Laurel interfered in their relationship to 'get' Oliver in the past, Shari essentially interfered by getting pregnant, therefore neither Sara nor Chris could've been with Oliver or Lorelai respectively. 

[Starfish35]

From the Behind the Mask thread: I've been wondering if Quentin will die this season, as a consequence of of bringing Sara back somehow. What do you all think?

[calliope1975]

From the Behind the Mask thread: I've been wondering if Quentin will die this season, as a consequence of of bringing Sara back somehow. What do you all think?

 

It wouldn't surprise me. TPTB seem to think they have to kill someone off each year, and PB is of the older set. Wait, there is no older set because they killed off Moira and exiled Walter. /bitter

 

Before last year, I would have been more upset because I really like PB and I liked Quentin, but he was an ass last year, and I have no time for more of those shenanigans. I'm not looking forward to what his death would do to Laurel and her story.

[apinknightmare]

I wouldn't be opposed to Quentin dying, but like I posted in the other thread, I really don't want Laurel to lose someone else in her life. Unless it's the beginning of her going dark for a while - because I think that could be interesting. But that's never going to happen.

[Starfish35]

I would support it if it was part of an exit strategy for Laurel. But otherwise....no. Not really interested in a third round of "Laurel reacts to the death of a loved one." That sounds really bad, but...it's the truth. :(

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, it's played out. I'm sure PB/SA are just having some emotional scenes that hopefully have nothing to do with Quentin shitting on Oliver and/or his alter ego YET AGAIN.

[AyChihuahua]

Realistically, the resurrection/LoTing of Sara isn't going to be the end of the season's Lance Family Drama.  Every season has a large dose of it, so we're going to get more of it regardless.  If we're going to get it anyway, I'd like for it to have at least something positive, and for me Quentin being gone would be positive.  However, while I personally think the chemistry between PB and KC is really exaggerated and only good in comparison to the non-existent chemistry KC has with everyone else except maybe Katrina Law, that might be one reason they actually keep PB.  It would be even more obvious that LL has no place on the show with her sister and her father gone.

[kismet]

If a lance has to go I'm still in favor of LL over QL. But that's probably like asking for the moon at this point.

[BkWurm1]

From the Behind the Mask thread: I've been wondering if Quentin will die this season, as a consequence of of bringing Sara back somehow. What do you all think?

I don't want him to go but it would not surprise me.  I think though that they might have a plan for him involving DD.  He still might die by the end of the season which again, I don't want.

 

If they have come to the end of the people they are willing to kill off, I think we will next see people being kidnapped as cliff hangers or thought dead like Roy but one step further were only the audience and the bad guys know the truth. 

 

If they were to kill Quentin at the end of the season, at least a lot of the angst would happen off screen. 

 

Please don't kill him!!  Or anyone for that matter. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm not getting the sense they're planning to kill Quentin off anytime soon. They don't have enough actors who work well in scenes with Katie Cassidy :P Seriously, though they do need to get him off Laurel Island quickly. He needs to be in more scenes with Oliver, Felicity and Diggle

(though BTS photos posted by Paul Blackthorne on Instagram seemed to indicate more Quentin/Diggle moments, so yay!)

. His story line needs to be more than just his daughters.

[kismet]

I for one do not want to see Quentin go either. I know he had a horrible s3 for plot purposes. And he has a long road ahead for redemption for what he did to OQ & RH. But PB is just so great. I love the emotions he brings to scenes. I hope for QL/Dig scenes. And I am always a lover of QL/OQ scenes.

 

I hope they don't kill any major cast members this season. I don't mind sending people away, but the killing for drama or gotcha is just been there done that.

[wingster55]

What did he do to Roy?

[kismet]

He let him get arrested for something he knew he didn't do. And then he didn't provide sufficient protection to him once he was in jail. Roy should have been better protected and not allowed to walk around gen pop. He led the lamb to the slaughter and then blamed it on OQ. RH's "death" was as much on QL as it was on OQ, if not more on QL.