Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[kismet]

Must have missed a spoiler about the running... Anyway... I wonder if they will start the season out with OQ in flashback mode. We haven't really started out a season in FB mode, perhaps they will try that as something new. I feel like they won't show OQ just running on/near a beach because 1. we can't have pretty things & 2. can't really see them spending time on it in premiere if they are gonna keep up their jammed full episodes.

 

Definitely don't see OQ settling down anywhere outside of SC just yet. I think he might lay roots in SC & become domesticated with FS this season. But honestly, don't see his or their living situation as being major part of story or sets. I sorta hope they do not have him suit up until 2-3 episodes, but I think people are right that they will likely have him pseudo-suit up by end of finale.

 

I think what will happen is OQ/FS will return to SC because of RP situation. But then OQ will leave town in ep2 to deal with LoT set-up plot stuff in Coast City (or wherever) their homebase will be. I actually wonder if OQ will spend a good portion of s4a out of town settling up some LoA & LoT business. That way the writers do not have to make an excuse for why he is not suiting up to defend SC. It will also provide some realistic separation, minor tension & great reunion moments between OQ/FS, if he is constantly on the road. It also realistically could explain why he does not interact or try to repair his friendship with Diggle, if they continue that tension. Plus then they can delay on what OQ will do with his job & free time, hold off until s4b to figure that out.

[tv echo]

Ever since I read the EPs' comment about how they plan a season by first determining where they want to end up at the end of the season and then figuring out how to get there, I've been thinking about how S4 might end. 

 

If our speculation is correct about family being the theme of S4, then I'm hoping that S4 will be about the bonds formed among Team Arrow members (as expanded) and how that bond is first healed and then further tested by conflicts with biological family members, and that S4 will end with Team Arrow members realizing that their real 'family' is now the one created by them through loyalty, friendship/love, common cause and shared experiences.

 

Worst case scenario - The EPs further sabotage Felicity's character by having her betray Oliver and/or TA in order to help her father, causing Oliver to break up with her.  Or, alternatively, Oliver is manipulated into believing Felicity betrayed him (when she didn't).  Then, even though he eventually finds out the truth, Felicity is so disillusioned by his lack of faith in her that she breaks up with him.

 

Best case scenario - Oliver, Felicity and Diggle talk through all of the problems that come up and, together, figure out how to deal with each of them.  (Bonus points if Oliver proposes to Felicity in the S4 finale.)

Edited May 24, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

As a follow-up to my above post, here are possible biological family members who could cause conflicts with or among TA members in S4...

 

• Oliver's son
• Felicity's father
• Andy Diggle (could he be alive and evil?)
• Malcolm Merlyn
• Quentin Lance
• Sara Lance (resurrected as slightly evil?)
• Talia al Ghul (assuming Nyssa becomes part of TA)

[FurryFury]

Sara Lance (resurrected as slightly evil?)

 

She sure didn't seem evil in the LOT trailer. Of course, it's possible she will be, but will be OK by the mid-season when LOT launches.

 

Best case scenario - Oliver, Felicity and Diggle talk through all of the problems that come up and, together, figure out how to deal with each of them.  (Bonus points if Oliver proposes to Felicity in the S4 finale.)

 

Sorry, but it sounds ridiculously fan-ficcy. Of course, some of the things on the actual show do sound fan-ficcy, but still. I guarantee you that a lot of people will be bored by something like that.

 

Personally, after this season's happily ever after (only not), at least for Oliver and Felicity, I expect something cliffhanger-y and momentous at the end of season 4.

Also, I expect/hope Thea will off Merlyn at some point.

[Chaser]

No more LOA please. Have an episode of Nyssa offing Malcolm and taking his place or dismantling the LOA and leave it at that. So over it.

[jay741982]

Ever since I read the EPs' comment about how they plan a season by first determining where they want to end up at the end of the season and then figuring out how to get there, I've been thinking about how S4 might end. 

 

If our speculation is correct about family being the theme of S4, then I'm hoping that S4 will be about the bonds formed among Team Arrow members (as expanded) and how that bond is first healed and then further tested by conflicts with biological family members, and that S4 will end with Team Arrow members realizing that their real 'family' is now the one created by them through loyalty, friendship/love, common cause and shared experiences.

 

Worst case scenario - The EPs further sabotage Felicity's character by having her betray Oliver and/or TA in order to help her father, causing Oliver to break up with her.  Or, alternatively, Oliver is manipulated into believing Felicity betrayed him (when she didn't).  Then, even though he eventually finds out the truth, Felicity is so disillusioned by his lack of faith in her that she breaks up with him.

 

Best case scenario - Oliver, Felicity and Diggle talk through all of the problems that come up and, together, figure out how to deal with each of them.  (Bonus points if Oliver proposes to Felicity in the S4 finale.)

Ugh why did you have to put that worse case scenario out there lol! With these writers I'd be afraid they would do that! But they are going lighter this season and your Worst case scenario s are Dark as Hell

She sure didn't seem evil in the LOT trailer. Of course, it's possible she will be, but will be OK by the mid-season when LOT launches.

 

Sorry, but it sounds ridiculously fan-ficcy. Of course, some of the things on the actual show do sound fan-ficcy, but still. I guarantee you that a lot of people will be bored by something like that.

 

Personally, after this season's happily ever after (only not), at least for Oliver and Felicity, I expect something cliffhanger-y and momentous at the end of season 4.

Also, I expect/hope Thea will off Merlyn at some point.

I'm thinking we could get a Felicity gets Snatched By H.I.V.E at the end of the season Cliffhanger or Oliver Does.

[kismet]

All for a cliffhanger finale in season 4!! Don't know what yet... but we are long overdue a cliffhanger. Every other finale seemed to tie things up so nicely, even the stuff dangling doesn't make your jaw drop and wait anxiously for next season - it just sets up what you know they will focus on. S1 Tommy's death was a sad & tragic finale, so no cliffhanger needed, esp when you knew that it was going to forever change the characters. S2 was the ILY real or part of an act (not the strongest of cliffhangers, but it did have me thinking for a little bit). But S3 answered that question in premiere (mistake I think) and then beat it to death with angst for an entire season. Not the best use of a cliffhanger answer in retrospect. They should have milked that suspense for a little longer, or at least allow the happier consequences of the reveal for an episode or 2. Rather than steamrolling over the better parts & getting right to the depressing angst. S3 finale - who is this Damian Darhk? S4 will focus on him as big bad, here's hoping its better handled than Ras/LoA.

[Sunshine]

KL at Puerto Rico Comic Con on May 22, 2015 (she sounds so different from Nyssa!)...

 

Katrina Law - Why she doesnt care about typecast - PR Comicon

 

Katrina Law Q&A panel in the Puerto Rico Comic Con 2015

 

KL also posted some pics at https://twitter.com/Misskatrinalaw

 

From the Q&A -- She doesn't know what will happen in S4, but she speculates that Nyssa will be in S4 because Damien Darhk is tied to the LOA, Malcolm is the head of the LOA, and Nyssa wants his title.  About the S3 ending, "character-wise", she was disappointed that Nyssa didn't end up as the new Ra's, but "plot-wise", Nyssa has so much to fight for now, so it's great.  The day of shooting the Oliver/Nyssa wedding, it was hard because she had to be so angry but there were so many jokes that day.  She'd walk up, and SA would start singing "going to the chapel, and we're... going to get married," and then he'd say something about how he'd like his eggs in the morning.  Nyssa felt more betrayed by her father choosing Oliver over her, than Sara choosing Oliver over her.  Her father's choice was devastating.  She understood that Sara's choice had nothing to do with loving Nyssa, but more to do with what the LOA lifestyle was doing to her soul.  KL again told the story about when Nyssa was locked in a cage and KC had trouble pronouncing Nanda Parbat correctly (saying Nanda "Poorbutt" instead for about 10 takes), cracking everyone up.  She says that they had "Spartacus Bootcamp" for that show, it was really intense, and she had a dislocated shoulder.  So she appreciates that they have doubles for some scenes in Arrow.  She mentions that James Bamford is always telling them to "do it faster".  She thinks that she and KC have a lot of chemistry and that people want to see two women kicking ass together.  She thinks that we'll see Nyssa discovering who she is outside the LOA while still fighting for the Ra's title and that Laurel will be pretty key in that development.

I like KL a lot but why should Nyssa get so much story?  Is she becoming a regular?    Thea (WH) is a regular but she was only a bit player in her own arc in S3.  Her arc seemed more about the Malcolm of it all and she was a plot point. 

[wonderwall]

I like KL a lot but why should Nyssa get so much story?  Is she becoming a regular?    Thea (WH) is a regular but she was only a bit player in her own arc in S3.  Her arc seemed more about the Malcolm of it all and she was a plot point. 

 

People deserving of character arcs that service their own characters in sequential order (my opinion) for season 4:

 

Diggle (it's about damn time) > Felicity = Thea (because both characters had arcs, they were just in service of other characters) > Nyssa = Laurel

 

However, in the end these character arcs should never deviate away from Oliver's story. I don't want said characters to be another Ray Palmer and be on their own island. 

[FurryFury]

I'm thinking we could get a Felicity gets Snatched By H.I.V.E at the end of the season Cliffhanger or Oliver Does.

 

I dunno, it sounds like an OK midseason finale cliffhanger, not a season finale one. Stuff like this doesn't generate real suspense - of course Felicity's going to be OK, of course Oliver's going to survive. Still, it's just way too early to speak about this stuff. I just find it weird that Arrow has never really done any big cliffhangers, while The Flash did one for its first season finale. Hell, I was going to drop The Flash and I'll still check out the premiere just to see it resolved.

[AyChihuahua]

No more LOA please. Have an episode of Nyssa offing Malcolm and taking his place or dismantling the LOA and leave it at that. So over it.

SERIOUSLY.  I am SO unhappy that they tied Darhk to Ra's.  This could basically be Ra's Part II, The Ra'sening.  So very over it.

[wonderwall]

SERIOUSLY.  I am SO unhappy that they tied Darhk to Ra's.  This could basically be Ra's Part II, The Ra'sening.  So very over it.

Except this could actually be quite good. Darhk is supposed to be a tech genius, he probably doesn't give a shit about the prophecy, the casting agency might cast a really good and compelling actor this time... I don't even think the LoA has to be mentioned during Darhk's arc. I certainly also hope that they don't force LoA into the storyline again to make Nyssa/Malcolm relevant. Really hope not 

[kismet]

Tarotx   in the FS section posted this:

 

Imo there has been a big pick up in Comic fans commenting their frustrstion onto Felicity. During that time Oliver came back, Laurel was the BC but with very little interaction with Oliver. Instead Felicity was the one still getting the romantic beats with Oliver Even with her dating Ray. And then when the BC was actively fighting and doing mask hero things, it was Felicity standing up to Melcolm, Oliver and Ra's that was getting press.

 

I think when Felicity was the One who went to Nanda Parbat for Thea, stood up to Ra's, had a romantic sex scene with Oliver and then faught for Oliver, it made some fans upset. But it was really when she came home and cried to Laurel moment that pushed the negative Comments.

It's the moment that Felicity was the leading lady of the show. That's when the pick on her tears grew. She has cried a lot and it's never fun to fully watch especially when beats are repeated like Oliver's gone, he's back but working with the bad guys. But it wasn't Felicity's whole character S3.

 

But then Felicity got to wear Ray's suit and save Oliver. Then she gets to ran away with Oliver. It was a big blow for some. Saving Oliver and Running away together are things the BC does with The Green Arrow.

When I read this in my sleep deprived state which tends to go big & crazy on the speculations... I got to thinking -

 

Is it possible that SA's Oliver Queen may never become Green Arrow? Perhaps they will have him be something else or someone else... I just need him out there being a hero, doing some action/stunts & living life in the show. Personally, I really don't need him to be the GA. But they'll keep the Green Arrow moniker for his son, perhaps to extend the series after SA wants to leave. Its a wild & crazy idea, but these writers claim to be wild & crazy.  That way they can tell all the comic canon stories they want with GA & BC, just not with SA & KC. Just a thought/theory that I'm pondering at the moment. 

[AyChihuahua]

Except this could actually be quite good. Darhk is supposed to be a tech genius, he probably doesn't give a shit about the prophecy, the casting agency might cast a really good and compelling actor this time... I don't even think the LoA has to be mentioned during Darhk's arc. I certainly also hope that they don't force LoA into the storyline again to make Nyssa/Malcolm relevant. Really hope not 

I very much doubt that.  They made him a contemporary of Ra's for a reason.  They made Malcolm the new Ra's (and still a regular) for a reason.  They, unlike me, love the LOA BS.  I will be utterly shocked, to the point of eating my hat, if the LOA isn't a big part of the Darhk storyline.  Which is totally unnecessary...there's not even any comic book canon tying Darhk to the LOA.  Why not leave that crap in the past and start fresh?

[wonderwall]

I very much doubt that. They made him a contemporary of Ra's for a reason. They made Malcolm the new Ra's (and still a regular) for a reason. They, unlike me, love the LOA BS. I will be utterly shocked, to the point of eating my hat, if the LOA isn't a big part of the Darhk storyline. Which is totally unnecessary...there's not even any comic book canon tying Darhk to the LOA. Why not leave that crap in the past and start fresh?

Wanna bet? ;)

[AyChihuahua]

Wanna bet? ;)

You are ON.  Except that it's a bet I'd be happy to lose.

 

Seriously, why else make DD a contemporary of Ra's, and why else make Malcolm a regular and the new Ra's?

[wonderwall]

You are ON. Except that it's a bet I'd be happy to lose.

Seriously, why else make DD a contemporary of Ra's, and why else make Malcolm a regular and the new Ra's?

Nice :p I'd be happy to prove you wrong lol now I'm looking forward to SDCC! I want the spoilers.

Except I hope this season the spoilers will be kept to a minimum *sigh*

[DrSpaceman10]

Season Four already sounds pretty full, we have:

 

*Connor (+Baby Mama)

*Set-up for LoT (possibly including Ray/Sara story arcs)

*Malcolm as Ra's - which in theory will somehow incorporate the LoA/Nyssa/Lazarus Pits

*Damien Darhk 

*Diggle + H.I.V.E. (DD is connected to H.I.V.E.)

*Felicity + her father (DR recently said we'd find out who Felicity's father is in S4)

*Oliver becoming "something else"

 

Hopefully they get the casting right with Damien and Connor, because I don't want a repeat of Ra's and child actors are difficult to cast correctly. 

[jay741982]

Season Four already sounds pretty full, we have:

 

*Connor (+Baby Mama)

*Set-up for LoT (possibly including Ray/Sara story arcs)

*Malcolm as Ra's - which in theory will somehow incorporate the LoA/Nyssa/Lazarus Pits

*Damien Darhk 

*Diggle + H.I.V.E. (DD is connected to H.I.V.E.)

*Felicity + her father (DR recently said we'd find out who Felicity's father is in S4)

*Oliver becoming "something else"

 

Hopefully they get the casting right with Damien and Connor, because I don't want a repeat of Ra's and child actors are difficult to cast correctly.

I hope a Good actor plays Papa Smoak as well. And Writers please please please keep true to the words that Diggle and Felicity are getting the meaty story

[Delphi]

Season Four already sounds pretty full, we have:

*Connor (+Baby Mama)

*Set-up for LoT (possibly including Ray/Sara story arcs)

*Malcolm as Ra's - which in theory will somehow incorporate the LoA/Nyssa/Lazarus Pits

*Damien Darhk

*Diggle + H.I.V.E. (DD is connected to H.I.V.E.)

*Felicity + her father (DR recently said we'd find out who Felicity's father is in S4)

*Oliver becoming "something else"

Hopefully they get the casting right with Damien and Connor, because I don't want a repeat of Ra's and child actors are difficult to cast correctly.

I actually think season 4 will be a lot better than seaSon 3.

I'm excited to see what happens with Sara. Sara is a catalyst whose rebirth can actually affect every single character on the show if they play their cards right.

I wanna see what happens to Ray but I don't think we'll get there until right before winter hiatus. He'll emerge from shrinking right before LoT premiers.

HIVE has the potential to be something cool like ARGUS was supposed to be before DC stopped the whole Suicide Squad thing.

I wanna meet Mr. Smoak but I don't think he'll be Darhk.

I am beyond excited to see Thea protect the city.

League stuff is boring, but as I've said elsewhere, Nyssa has become one of my favourite characters, largely due to Katrina's portrayal. If they manage to write properly I'd love to see her plot revenge and become the one noble assassin in the league.

[Morena]

Except this could actually be quite good. Darhk is supposed to be a tech genius, he probably doesn't give a shit about the prophecy, the casting agency might cast a really good and compelling actor this time... I don't even think the LoA has to be mentioned during Darhk's arc. I certainly also hope that they don't force LoA into the storyline again to make Nyssa/Malcolm relevant. Really hope not 

I think Damien will be the union of two characters: Damien Darhk http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Damien_Darhk_%28New_Earth%29 and Ebeneezer Darrk http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Ebeneezer_Darrk_%28New_Earth%29

[jay741982]

I think Damien will be the union of two characters: Damien Darhk http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Damien_Darhk_(New_Earth) and Ebeneezer Darrk http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Ebeneezer_Darrk_(New_Earth)

Ebeneezer has dark hair like the true hair color of a gorgeous Genius VP of Palmer Tech lol

[FurryFury]

Ebeneezer? And here  I thought Eobard was embarrassing...

[tv echo]

CL posted this b-t-s pic from the LoT trailer shoot on her instagram -- this looks like the same Arrow costume that Oliver wore this past season.  Yet SA had said that he was done wearing the Arrow suit after this season.  So any speculation as to how this fits into the Arrow universe?

 

[AyChihuahua]

I think the trailer for LoT is kind of out of time, like not fully connected to the other shows yet.  And they wouldn't want to spoil his new costume (please don't be stupid, new costume, please don't be stupid).

[Starfish35]

Well, I'm not sure how much of the LoT trailer will actually end up being canon. They didn't film a pilot, so..... I've kind of thought that some of it was just to show people what the show was. I'm not sure that Barry and Oliver will actually end up calling everyone together to form the team like that.

And as far as the suit goes, I've been thinking about this. I know it will be a different costume. But short of going with the sleeveless look and Robin Hood cap from the comics, how much different can it look (especially from a distance)? Because it will likely still be green and leather.

[Chaser]

Must have sleeves. Must have sleeves. Must have sleeves. 

[Password]

Must have sleeves. Must have sleeves. Must have sleeves.

*snort*

Please please please.

[Starfish35]

I will be a little surprised if it looks drastically different, tbh. I think the new costume will probably look a lot like the old costume, minus Shado's hood. I can't see them going sleeveless, and he will still need something to cover his head and a hood is the most practical option. So, short of buckling it up (please don't do that), how much different can it really look?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

The BC and Arsenal costumes have made me appreciate the simplistic design of the Arrow's. I'm concerned that they may jack it up trying to make it too different.

[doesntworkonwood]

The BC and Arsenal costumes have made me appreciate the simplistic design of the Arrow's. I'm concerned that they may jack it up trying to make it too different.

Please no buckles. Please no buckles. Please no buckles. 

[AyChihuahua]

There is a good chance they will buckle it up.  Too bad, because zippers are so much more practical.

 

I wouldn't hate a hood redesign.  Realistically, hoods are a terrible option for a fighter.  Block a lot of peripheral vision.  If they could make it look okay, something closer to Barry's head covering could work.  I find his to be much more practical.

[kismet]

I think they just used the green suit for the trailer for convenience purposes. There was 2 green suits (the original & the cisco upgrade), I honestly can't tell the difference between them without a side by side comparison. But perhaps only one got confiscated and OQ just needed something to wear After the whole dam fight, he really can't wear the black suit without drawing suspicion as well. I still do think that OQ & BA will be the ones responsible for calling the team together. So maybe they will reshoot the rooftop scene once the new costume is done. Fingers crossed it has sleeves & not many if any buckles.

[kismet]

There is a good chance they will buckle it up.  Too bad, because zippers are so much more practical.

 

I wouldn't hate a hood redesign.  Realistically, hoods are a terrible option for a fighter.  Block a lot of peripheral vision.  If they could make it look okay, something closer to Barry's head covering could work.  I find his to be much more practical.

I would miss the hood portion of it. But I understand your point. A tighter hood option like Barry's might make the most sense. Where it appears hood like when off & tight suit when on. I feel like OQ is more of a zipper & laces (after his time in NP) kinda guy, so I really hope that they minimize or eliminate the use of buckles. On the plus side, they do not have to add bulk to the suit to help disguise the stunt double from SA so that is in our favor for no buckles.

[AyChihuahua]

I would miss the hood portion of it. But I understand your point. A tighter hood option like Barry's might make the most sense. Where it appears hood like when off & tight suit when on. I feel like OQ is more of a zipper & laces (after his time in NP) kinda guy, so I really hope that they minimize or eliminate the use of buckles. On the plus side, they do not have to add bulk to the suit to help disguise the stunt double from SA so that is in our favor for no buckles.

I recently rewatched the episode in which he kills the first Count, and while I've mostly moved past thinking Oliver is "hot" (I mean he is, obviously, but his S3 stupidity really cut down on his hotness for me, as I find stupid to be quite unattractive), he looked fantastic in the scene where he's confronting the Count at QC, with the suit on and the hood back.  Really fantastic.  So yeah, keep the hood in some form.

[Sakura12]

Well they didn't put any buckles on CL's new costume, the only real difference is they covered her chest while still leaving an outline of the corset and took the fishnet design off her pants. Although imo she looks like she's wearing some kind futuristic space suit. 

 

 

So hopefully the keep the no buckles rule for Arrow's new suit as well.

 

Looking at these costumes up close, they really can't put on any weight. Those things look tight. 

Edited May 28, 2015 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

Oh wow. Is it me, or does that thing like it's been spray-painted white?

[kismet]

Speaking of Oliver's stupidity - in the Article/media section TVEcho (once again, thx for all the article mining!) posted

 

Arrow: 9 Mistakes It Must Avoid In Season 4 James Hunt  May 27, 2015 http://whatculture.c...in-season-4.php

  

Damien Darhk and H.I.V.E have been set up as the villains for season 4, and hopefully they will serve as ones with a clearer motive, and also present a different kind of challenge. Thus far we’ve seen Oliver go up against physical matches in the forms of Malcolm Merlyn, Slade and Ra’s, so it’d be good to see him deal with a villain who possesses great intellect – as Darhk supposedly does – and poses a different sort of threat.

I hope this means that we see the end of OQ having his head up his ass & making dumb choices just for writer mileage. It would be a welcome development to show OQ as an intelligent person/hero that can take down a more mentally astute & psychologically driven villain. I love the physicality of SA's acting as much as the next person. But after this season, he's shown that there is a lot of depth & layering to his character/acting. Its about time the writers start writing towards him being an intelligent hero, esp now that there are metas & superpowers. He might have not have graduated from any university, but he survived 5 years of hell on the island/HK/Russia and wherever else. His survival was certainly not all luck, there was a lot of skill & strategy needed. He might not be the smartest man in the room, but he certainly not as dumb as the writers force him to be at times for their plots.

[AyChihuahua]

Honestly, prior to S3 I think an argument could be made that Oliver often was the smartest man in the room.  Maybe not so much strategically, but definitely tactically, and in terms of thinking very quickly on his feet.  He also learned two extremely difficult languages, at least one (Mandarin) well enough that native speakers believed he was Chinese.  I never had a problem with his stupid emotional decisions, because hello emotional damage, but he was NEVER stupid before S3.  It was one of my favorite things about him.  That's partly why I so very much hated him becoming so dumb in S3, because it was such a letdown from his brains in prior seasons.

[kismet]

Honestly, prior to S3 I think an argument could be made that Oliver often was the smartest man in the room.  Maybe not so much strategically, but definitely tactically, and in terms of thinking very quickly on his feet.  He also learned two extremely difficult languages, at least one (Mandarin) well enough that native speakers believed he was Chinese.  I never had a problem with his stupid emotional decisions, because hello emotional damage, but he was NEVER stupid before S3.  It was one of my favorite things about him.  That's partly why I so very much hated him becoming so dumb in S3, because it was such a letdown from his brains in prior seasons.

Totally agree. Oliver is my favorite character. I always found him to be intelligent & tactical. I think he does have a brain for strategy. Which is why s3 was really frustrating to watch at times. I never truly believed he was as dumb as some of the decisions the writers have made him make, especially in s3. His intelligence is definitely on display in s1&2. As for some of his not so great emotional decisions, I definitely put that up to emotional damage, PTSD and his poor choices as a youth giving him a shaky foundation. But I feel like his intentions are generally good, just circumstances or outcomes are not in his favor for various reasons. I will say that he would not be typically described as book smart, but that is likely due to fact he partied away his youth & then got stuck on islands. Its not because he lacks the ability or intelligence, even though it seems that MG would like us to believe that so he can get greater mileage for some of his plots.

 

I wish the writers would just trust themselves to write smarter characters, it makes for smarter overall scripts. I think they believe the convoluted MM plot was smart & intelligent but IMO it was not. It had the potential to be, but then it just failed. If you're gonna have characters play a game of mental chess, it needs to be just that. We need to see some of the character's mentally move people across their board. I feel like MM did that in s1, you could see him manipulating people or verbalizing how he was planning on achieving his outcome. Not just some character stopping to explain in plot points how we got these characters from A to Z, which is what I feel a lot of what Maseo did in s3. And it can't all be explained away because of a prophecy, that then changes to another prophecy when it better suits the plot. If you're gonna throw a twist or major plot changer like OQ's death. Let it sit & simmer a little with the audience. For every major gamechanger they made this season, they generally undid it within the next episode. That's not trusting your writing or your audience.

[statsgirl]

I think the writers/MG just got carried away with the story potential of Oliver being stupid. Like believing that Felicity is bullet-proof, they were wrong in this too.  Writing a smart Oliver out-witted by an evil mastermind is much more difficult to do than having Oliver attacked by the LoA. I hope they don't screw it up.

 

I understand the problems a hood brings but visually it looks much cooler.  I think Barry's head gear looks kind of stupid.

[tv echo]

I think they have to keep the hood because of the character's call-back to Robin Hood.  I agree with those who say "no sleeveless" and "no buckles", please!

 

Whenever I read a discussion of superhero costumes, I always think of The Incredibles ("no cape").

Edited May 29, 2015 by tv echo

[BunsenBurner]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have The Flash go off camera when he pulls off his head gear? It always seems that way to me like it's difficult or clumsy to take off. Please make Oliver's new costume easy, keep the hood, no buckles, tight and bullet proof.

Edited May 29, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[lemotomato]

I like the Arrow suit just the way it is now, so I'm hoping that when MG and SA say that Oliver's done with it, they're just continuing their media strategy of only talking about what's going on in the story presently. Like how Oliver was really dead, and Raylicity was a real relationship.

[foreverevolving]

While I am in no means against redoing the characters from their comics origins to fit the screen, some things have to remain the same. GA outfit, specifically the hood is an iconic part of his outfit, as his bow and arrow use. it be like batman not having bat ears, or superman's house of El symbol on his.

You can change the outfit a bit (like they did with Sara and Buckles) make it more modern and fitting, but you can only play with it so much. Oliver's outfit in the last three seasons fitted the show very much.

[tv echo]

In the Laurel thread, I commented that I thought that Laurel would have an increased role in S4 because TPTB want to promote their costumed superheroes.  

 

Possible storylines she could be involved in? -- Mending her relationship with Quentin, dealing with Sara's resurrection and becoming WC, continued fight and weapons training, continued friendship with Nyssa, involvement with Nyssa's fight with Malcolm/LOA and by extension, the fight with Damien Darhk/HIVE, dealing with Oliver's baby mama drama (remember, he was with Laurel at the time), getting a new love interest, more with her mother Dinah, a new phase of her relationship with Oliver, return of Helena and a BOP-type story, doing her ADA job and dealing with the SC mayor, getting her own nemesis, etc.

Edited May 31, 2015 by tv echo

[arjumand]

While I am in no means against redoing the characters from their comics origins to fit the screen, some things have to remain the same. GA outfit, specifically the hood is an iconic part of his outfit, as his bow and arrow use. it be like batman not having bat ears, or superman's house of El symbol on his.

You can change the outfit a bit (like they did with Sara and Buckles) make it more modern and fitting, but you can only play with it so much. Oliver's outfit in the last three seasons fitted the show very much.

 

Exactly - I hope it's just a kind of double bluff. One thing they could do is make the hood a leather one, like Thea's. Roy's was leather, right? Because Yao Fei's hood is now property of the SCPD. Didn't Cisco want to change it, and wasn't allowed to do that? So now maybe the new suit is the one Cisco had come up with.

 

And I keep reading (and now I've made a resolution to stop) that Amell and the others are saying no leather pants - ok, fine. What, then? Is it going to be like Quicksilver on Age of Ultron, who spent the entire movie in track pants? Ugh. I think I was happier when I didn't know all this BTS stuff.

[kismet]

I love leather pants as much as the next person, especially on SA. But I can understand the value of changing it to a more practical material to be running around a damp/chilly/rainy SC fighting crime. I don't know what material would be better since I'm not personally familiar with a lot of materials or wardrobe design. But I feel like leather has some limitations, esp as pants.

 

I think what is important for the wardrobe dept to focus on is designing a crime fighting outfit and not a costume. I think the original Arrow & Canary outfits were streamlined and looked like crime fighting outfits with a comic book flair. Arsenal & Black Canary outfits felt more like superhero costumes with all the buckles & lace-ups. Which is why in s1 & 2 it didn't look like a costume party was setting loose on SC like it did in s3.

 

With Diggle also getting some identity concealment, it will be interesting to see what way they take the new outfits for both of them. I seriously can't imagine them losing the sleeves though on either outfit. The sleeves help protect the actors & the stunt doubles and that likely takes precedence over other ideas. Also in comics the sleeveless aspect helps to show muscle definition, which is not necessarily needed in multidimensional live-action work. We can see their muscles through the outfits with the proper tailoring & material selection.

[foreverevolving]

I think the leather thing is more Vancouver weather than anything else. Amell has said that when it's hot it's really hot in the suit, and when it's cold it's really cold.

even if he is Canadian and used to the cool temps that still can't be too fun.

 

well, Smallville "Green Arrow" had a sleeveless suit. It was a cheesy looking suit, and the lack of sleeves were part of the reason.

 

regarding muscle definition, you really don't need to be sleeveless for that. we see Batman and Superman muscles perfectly fine in their outfits - which have sleeves.

[calliope1975]

I am very much against the no sleeves outfit, but the one pro would be SA's arms. Because...yes.

 

Hawkeye makes the sleeveless look work, but Arrow isn't really the same type of tone or atmosphere as The Avengers.