Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[tv echo]

I'm kinda dreading that the HIVE storyline might be used to put a wedge between Felicity and Diggle (assuming that Felicity's father is connected to HIVE). 

[kismet]

Now that Felicity has control over whatever company/division PT is or will become, I totally want OQ to be her EA. I wanted it when I thought her getting the company was just a spoiler or random theory. But now that it is happening, I want him working for her to happen. I know the chances are slim, considering the writers. But it would be funny to see a reversal of roles at least for a little bit. Plus it would give him a job & he could possibly learn more about the company. He definitely needs to earn his way back into the company. I would be so disappointed in the writers/Felicity if she just hands it back over to him. I know its not real life, but couldn't OQ be taking some courses so that if he ever gets control of a company it would be believable that he knows how to run it. I definitely don't want to see him in school. But a mention here & there that he's done some coursework would be nice.

[Chaser]

Adding to my wishlist:

 

Felicity to make good on a threat to Malcolm. 

[nksarmi]

My wish for Merlyn is that Thea, Laurel, and Nyssa kill him in a friendly fire accident and just look at Oliver like "opps" at the end of the battle.

[arjumand]

I have two fears for the season ender:

 

One is that Oliver will "die" or disappear after the final battle, and that then we'll have more recriminations from Diggle and co. next season - sort of "Oliver's eyes close (hard cut to credits)."

 

The other is that he'll be seriously wounded, close to death, and they'll take him to the Lazarus Pit, from which he'll emerge blank slate, like Thea when she woke up after the crazy.

 

I hope I'm wrong about both, but otherwise why introduce the Lazarus Pit at all? The whole Thea business could have been made into a kidnapping - become R'as or I kill your sister. Instead, we were given an episode to show us the power of the pit and its effects.

[DrSpaceman10]

I hope Felicity gets to stay in charge of PT/QC in Season Four and they don't just make her hand the company back to Oliver. The only qualification that Oliver has over Felicity is his last name and Felicity seemingly did most of Oliver's work for him in Season Two. In real life it might not make sense for Felicity to become CEO, but by Arrow standards she's practically overqualified. 

[BkWurm1]

Now that Felicity has control over whatever company/division PT is or will become, I totally want OQ to be her EA

 

Maybe he tries to fill in for a day?  At the very least she HAS to make a joke about it.  I NEED him to bring her coffee. 

 

 

 

I hope Felicity gets to stay in charge of PT/QC in Season Four and they don't just make her hand the company back to Oliver. The only qualification that Oliver has over Felicity is his last name and Felicity seemingly did most of Oliver's work for him in Season Two. In real life it might not make sense for Felicity to become CEO, but by Arrow standards she's practically overqualified. 

Fortunately I think Oliver has no desire to be in charge.  I could see Felicity humbly thinking she doesn't deserve what she might still think of as Oliver's family legacy but in the end, his main interest was in the good of the company for the benefit of the city and employees.   I'd say he'd say it's in good hands. 

 

That said, they could do a story line that in order to shore up some name recognition and good will of the public they change the name to Queen Inc. Perhaps even giving Oliver a honorary position but leaving control in Felicity's hands.  

 

The more I think about it, the more I love that Felicity will now become the backer of the team. It is about time that the comic universe gets a female billionaire crime fighting hero.  (Give her time, she's get the company's value up there) 

Edited May 9, 2015 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

About what SA said about becoming Ra's.  I've assumed (hoped) that the Ra's storyline would firmly be over before the end of the episode but I suppose it's possible that he keeps the title in a kind of name only thing to keep the LoA in line - though I would think something like that would just lead to multiple assassination attempts.   BUT if he kept the honorary position and let Nyssa run the place then he would at least have a costume to pull out when he feels the need to beat up some villains not to mention a storyline that might have him interacting more realistically with bad guys than one where Oliver Queen is purely retired. 

 

He could still be "officially" retired as Arrow and working on being that better person just as Oliver Queen but still having to wrap up a few remaining details with the League.  That could get TPTB a reason for Oliver to be in action scenes (which with the lack of Arrow would otherwise be reduced).  

 

Personally I still prefer the LoA thing being done and any early action sequences happening in season four to be civilian OQ kicking ass.  I miss that from season one, seeing Oliver in street clothes doing awesome stuff. 

 

I wonder if they might tie Diggle's distance and lack of trust with Oliver trying to be a hero in a different way.  I can imagine him feeling a bit abandoned...but then again hasn't Diggle quit the team like twice? 

[Angel12d]

Shame. If Oliver does become the next Ra's, that means he probably kills him and I was hoping Nyssa would do it. She has every damn right to skewer him. Thea and Laurel obviously won't get the chance to run a knife through Malcolm like I think they should so I was counting on Nyssa and Ra's there. I'm disappointed. Haha.

[Trini]

I feel like it would really easy for Ra's to get "killed" then resurrected via the Lazarus Pit. If he is actually killed, I wonder if the next Ra's (not Oliver) will be the "real" Ra's -- the one who interacts with Batman. I'm just very skeptical that DC would let this show kill off such a major comic villain.

[kismet]

I feel like it would really easy for Ra's to get "killed" then resurrected via the Lazarus Pit. If he is actually killed, I wonder if the next Ra's (not Oliver) will be the "real" Ra's -- the one who interacts with Batman. I'm just very skeptical that DC would let this show kill off such a major comic villain.

But isn't part of the reason we are in this mess is that the LP was not working for Ras anymore? He needed a new heir. I mean I get your point about DC Comics, which was what I thought about Ras at the beginning of the season. But I just can't see them not killing this Ras... Then again who knows what their plans are. I just want done with the LoA.

[apinknightmare]

I feel like it would really easy for Ra's to get "killed" then resurrected via the Lazarus Pit. If he is actually killed, I wonder if the next Ra's (not Oliver) will be the "real" Ra's -- the one who interacts with Batman. I'm just very skeptical that DC would let this show kill off such a major comic villain.

 

I think it works only because they made Ra's a position instead of a person. And I think part of the reason for the next duel taking place in SC is so that Ra's is pretty far away from the LP - if it's not working on him the way it used to, it probably wouldn't be able to bring him back from the dead. 

[statsgirl]

The one storyline I really want for next season is for them to address the fact that for all his lip service to the term, Oliver doesn't really treat Diggle and Felicity like partners.  He's still secretive, still controlling, and there has to come a point at which it drives Diggle crazy and causes Felicity to shrivel because she just can't fight him any more.

 

He benched Diggle without talking it over with him, he made a ton of decisions for Felicity this season starting with the Slade ruse, through their relationship, to signing on with Merlyn and finally by

working out a plan with Malcolm Merlyn and leaving Diggle and Felicity out of even knowing there was a plan in existence

.  At some point, Diggle has to claim his own standing and Felicity to get tired of Oliver making all the decisions about their relationships, especially now that they are lovers.

 

I think they could do a storyline about Oliver's five years and how that led into making his control issues skyhigh, that not only is it very hard for him to open up to people but even harder to let them have some say in the decisions the Team makes, until something happens and Oliver being forced to let go and trust that the others can make the right decisions, and then accepting that he doesn't have to be as in control as he insists he does.

 

But this is something that the show really needs to address, even more than it needs to bring in that child in Central City.

[tv echo]

I've been thinking about the EPs saying that S4 is going to be lighter than S3 -- If they kill off Felicity or have Oliver dump Felicity or have Felicity dump Oliver, that will just create more pain and angst next season.  So the only way they could break up Oliver and Felicity, while staying true to that promise of a lighter season, would be for the break-up to be a mutual decision after spending the summer together.  That would make no sense, given everything they've gone through together just to get together.  But MG has also said that the only constant about the show was that it was always changing.  So would the EPs really go there, do you think?

[NumberCruncher]

Nah, I don't think they'll break them up after spending the entirety of this season putting them together. All I really ask for is some balance--Oliver can have his requisite angst (though hopefully at a much lower level), but can we please not have both Oliver and Felicity be as broody as they were this season? My gut tells me that a more balanced approach is where the EPs are planning to go in S4, but I could be way off base.

[nksarmi]

I think there have been a lot of hints the last couple of days that they are going to try to transform Oliver from this Nolan Batman clone to more of the GA of the comic books.  I really don't think they can go their entirely - and honestly, we want him to be faithful to Felicity so they definitely don't need to go all the way GA - but I'm keeping my fingers crossed Oliver will get to smile, be a little cocky once he's back with his team, and crack more one liners like Ray and Felicity being related. 

 

And with the constant reassurance the EPs have been giving that next season will have more balance and SA saying Oliver will get to smile more - I think maybe they have gotten the message that fans just can't take any more angst and they have to dial it back a bit.

[DrSpaceman10]

I hope that they don't spend too much time next season setting up the new spin-off because they've spent the last two seasons setting up spin-offs and it's time to focus on their regular cast. Maybe they can mainly use The Flash to launch the spin-off instead?

 

I also hope that the show lets Oliver and Felicity be like Chandler and Monica (long-term stable relationship), but I fear that they'll end up more like Ross and Rachel (on-again/off-again). 

[ohjoy]

I also hope that the show lets Oliver and Felicity be like Chandler and Monica (long-term stable relationship), but I fear that they'll end up more like Ross and Rachel (on-again/off-again). 

That is also my hope (and my fear) -- I am totally in for the long haul as long as we have Chandler and Monica (although ultimately I'm still holding onto my Westley/Buttercup image). But if they go to Ross/Rachel, for any reason really, I am so out.

[NumberCruncher]

That is also my hope (and my fear) -- I am totally in for the long haul as long as we have Chandler and Monica (although ultimately I'm still holding onto my Westley/Buttercup image). But if they go to Ross/Rachel, for any reason really, I am so out.

Yeah, I don't think I can do another season of the will-they-or-won't-they thing. It was fine that they teased it over the first couple of seasons, but the extremely unnecessary love triangle and overdone melodrama after they had only gone on half a date was ridiculous. I know it's been beat to death in discussions here but it's true that people loved Olicity because it wasn't angsty and dramatic. In S4 can we please have that fun banter back that made people fall in love with the idea of them in the first place?

[wonderwall]

SA said at the upfronts that he knew about how Oliver/Felicity will be riding off into the sunset since last years upfronts. Also, his response to whether O/F will be happy next season with "looks that way". So I hope that SA knows what he's talking about and they're in a stable relationship all of next season. I don't mind some angst, but leave that for later in the season. 

[kismet]

I feel like Chandler/Monica is the way to go...  I understand the fear of Ross/Rachel because its real. I share it as well. O&F just work better together than apart, just like C/M did. I can't see them being with other people and having that same magic they have together. There will be external factors that will threaten them, but I just can't see either of them having internal struggles with the relationship at least for a few more seasons, if ever. It is the CW, so romantic soapy drama does draw an audience ~ but I think there are better ways to get it on Arrow than just rely on O/F. Perhaps if they brought in LIs for Thea & Laurel that can help to alleviate the need for them to have O/F romantic relationship drama fuel the show. Clearly, O/F romantic angst was not the best received arc of this season, I hope the writers took note of that.

[Chaser]

That is also my hope (and my fear) -- I am totally in for the long haul as long as we have Chandler and Monica (although ultimately I'm still holding onto my Westley/Buttercup image). But if they go to Ross/Rachel, for any reason really, I am so out.

Well the script for The Fallen read the 'kiss to end all kisses' which kinda reminded me of 'the passionate, the most pure. this one left them all behind.' I love the Princess Bride.

 

 

SA said at the upfronts that he knew about how Oliver/Felicity will be riding off into the sunset since last years upfronts. Also, his response to whether O/F will be happy next season with "looks that way". So I hope that SA knows what he's talking about and they're in a stable relationship all of next season. I don't mind some angst, but leave that for later in the season. 

Here's hoping. IIRC, this is around the time SA refuted the Oliver and Laurel are soul mates comments. He knew that they would end the season together, not just a fling relationship.

 

Honestly, after this season you couldn't sell me on a break up. I just wouldn't be able to buy that after everything Oliver and her went through for either one of the to come to the conclusion it wasn't working wouldn't seem right. If he were to end up with anyone else, it would come across as the second choice. I really need a good solid season of them being together and happy, they can bring in outside problems and have fights but no back and forth please. Not after the past three seasons.

Edited May 14, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Happy Harpy]

Honestly, after this season you couldn't sell me on a break up. 

They already couldn't sell me on a break up this season. 

 

Here's hoping that they deal better with Diggle/Oliver next season than they did with Oliver/Felicity during S3 re: fake, unnecessary, cliché stalling and angst. My patience is running extremely thin.

I need them to pave the way to a reconciliation starting in the season premiere, and make clear that, at long last, this one will be about the Original 3. I don't care what TPTB proclaim on interviews and all. I need them to show, not tell.

 

I'd also like for the show not to be a poor man's Avengers (and if you look for the one person who didn't see Age of Ultron, it's me) with a plethora of superheroes running about, or a poor man's Batman (and if you look for the one person who didn't see The Dark Knight, it's me) and be once again that cool, enjoyable TV show that developped its original take on a comic book and asking a suspension of disbelief more akin to action movies. But with the current trend, I'm probably asking for the moon.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Starfish35]

I don't have a lot of hopes for next season. I'm still feeling strangely apathetic about the show, and unless something changes in the next five months, I'll only be watching to see how LoT is set up.

That said, I do have a few hopes. I guess more like a wish list.

One is that they don't break up Oliver and Felicity now that they're together. I may not ship them, but I've never been anti-Olicity either, and mostly I just want the drama over. I know that goes against some sort of CW law or something, but if they're going to do Olicity, then commit to it.

Second, put a lid on the GA/BC team ups. I know she's part of the team now. Fine. But can we not do any GA/BC teasing anymore than we have to? (No motorcycle rides-I'm just saying)

And third....lighten up. For the love of everything. I know this show isn't The Flash, and I don't expect it to be, but it feels like it's been unrelentingly grim starting in season 2B, and I'm just so over it. It can be more serious than Flash but enough with this thing to see how much more miserable we can make these characters.

And fourth, more Nyssa. And Tatsu. That'd be awesome. Thanks.

[wonderwall]

I don't have a lot of hopes for next season. I'm still feeling strangely apathetic about the show, and unless something changes in the next five months, I'll only be watching to see how LoT is set up.

 

My hope is you don't give up on this board and give season 4 a chance because I'd miss your objective view points :) Yeah I'm selfish that way lol

[arjumand]

I feel like Chandler/Monica is the way to go...  I understand the fear of Ross/Rachel because its real. I share it as well. O&F just work better together than apart, just like C/M did. I can't see them being with other people and having that same magic they have together.

 

 

I like this idea - it's helping mitigate the fear I have that Barry will cause a reset with his dumbass time travel past changing plan. It would be cute to have an episode where alternate Felicity and alternate Oliver still find each other, just like Monica and Chandler did, in The One That Could Have Been.

Edited May 15, 2015 by arjumand

[tv echo]

Unfortunately, I do think 4A will spend some time setting up Sara's resurrection and Ray's explosion ramifications.  The Sara story will give Laurel & Quentin (& Nyssa) a story line for 4A, as well as some closure.  The Ray story will involve the PT ownership transition to Felicity.  Malcolm will likely be involved in both the Sara story and the Damien Darhk story.  (Hopefully, he'll be killed by Nyssa, Sara, DD or anyone, really.)  Diggle will get a story involving DD/HIVE and ARGUS, plus his fractured friendship with Oliver and maybe his own masked identity.  Of course, Oliver will be involved in all of the stories with heavy emphasis on the DD/HIVE and ARGUS story, coupled with his flashback story, as well as creating a new personal life (job?) apart from crimefighting.  Felicity also has her mysterious father story, and Oliver still has his baby mama drama.  Laurel will probably get a new love interest (since Wildcat didn't pan out).  Thea will continue her hero journey and probably get a new love interest as well.  Then 4B would see the departure of Ray and Sara to LOT, and Team Arrow will deal with whatever was set up in 4A.  That's what I predict anyway.

 

From what I understand, the comics GA is a unfaithful womanizer.  I really don't want Oliver to become like that (again).  It would be a regression to pre-island Ollie.  But yes, a smiling, more happy Oliver would be great.  SA is great at delivering the deadpan one-liners, so yes, more of that, please.

 

I agree that Oliver and Felicity breaking up at this point would make absolutely no sense.  However, I wouldn't put it past these EPs to try it - or perhaps use a tired trope like Felicity is kidnapped by HIVE and loses her memory.

 

Over the fictional summer hiatus, I want Oliver to give Felicity some self-defense training and weapons training.  Recent episodes have shown that sometimes Team Arrow needs her to be out in the field with them.  So she should - at the very least - know how to shoot a gun.

[jay741982]

Unfortunately, I do think 4A will spend some time setting up Sara's resurrection and Ray's explosion ramifications. The Sara story will give Laurel & Quentin (& Nyssa) a story line for 4A, as well as some closure. The Ray story will involve the PT ownership transition to Felicity. Malcolm will likely be involved in both the Sara story and the Damien Darhk story. (Hopefully, he'll be killed by Nyssa, Sara, DD or anyone, really.) Diggle will get a story involving DD/HIVE and ARGUS, plus his fractured friendship with Oliver and maybe his own masked identity. Of course, Oliver will be involved in all of the stories with heavy emphasis on the DD/HIVE and ARGUS story, coupled with his flashback story, as well as creating a new personal life (job?) apart from crimefighting. Felicity also has her mysterious father story, and Oliver still has his baby mama drama. Laurel will probably get a new love interest (since Wildcat didn't pan out). Thea will continue her hero journey and probably get a new love interest as well. Then 4B would see the departure of Ray and Sara to LOT, and Team Arrow will deal with whatever was set up in 4A. That's what I predict anyway.

From what I understand, the comics GA is a unfaithful womanizer. I really don't want Oliver to become like that (again). It would be a regression to pre-island Ollie. But yes, a smiling, more happy Oliver would be great. SA is great at delivering the deadpan one-liners, so yes, more of that, please.

I agree that Oliver and Felicity breaking up at this point would make absolutely no sense. However, I wouldn't put it past these EPs to try it - or perhaps use a tired trope like Felicity is kidnapped by HIVE and loses her memory.

Over the fictional summer hiatus, I want Oliver to give Felicity some self-defense training and weapons training. Recent episodes have shown that sometimes Team Arrow needs her to be out in the field with them. So she should - at the very least - know how to shoot a gun.

Now that they are a couple I'd love to see Oliver giving her those lessons. We all know he will suit up next year and he would definitely want his love to be able to shoot a gun and defend herself better

[KirkB]

I think sending Malcolm off to the LoA was the right way to go. Yeah, it sucks that he not only doesn't pay for his crimes but gets rewarded. But the EP's (and at least a percentage of the audience) loves Barrowman. By having him be the new leader of the LoA, they have reasons for him to be gone from the show and reasons or at least the ability to bring him back if they choose. And since Dahrk is connected to the League we're probably not done with it or Malcolm, which is a good or bad thing depending on your point of view. As much as I like Barrowman I do hope he's off screen for a while. considering how much of a waste his huge salary was for most of the season, and he's connected to perhaps the most hated storyline (Sara's death) this show has ever done.

 

I hope the flashbacks are over. I know they're not. These people love their flashbacks. I tolerated them in season one because of how much they were helping to set up the story. I got more and more annoyed by them in season two because they were serving less purpose and getting in the way of the current story going on which is what I wanted to see. They felt really out of place and often intrusive in season 3. If they insist on sticking with the same pattern, I hope they at least find a way to better fit them into the narrative, though I doubt it.

[calliope1975]

The only good parts about S3's flashbacks were bringing Maseo and Tatsu into the show, but I think they could have found a different way to do that. They've become more and more of a drag so I hope they figure out how to make them work if they insist on continuing them. 

[Chaser]

I want as many Oliver/Thea scenes as possible. I need a Green Arrow/Speedy duo.

 

I want Russian Mob flashbacks. There is potential there to make them really interesting. Present Day Happy, Hero, In-Love Oliver Queen. Flashback Dark Murderous Oliver Queen.

[Happy Harpy]

I think sending Malcolm off to the LoA was the right way to go. Yeah, it sucks that he not only doesn't pay for his crimes but gets rewarded. But the EP's (and at least a percentage of the audience) loves Barrowman. By having him be the new leader of the LoA, they have reasons for him to be gone from the show and reasons or at least the ability to bring him back if they choose. 

I hated it because of Nyssa, but indeed, I do love J.Barrowman (although I'm not a Doctor Who/Torchwood watcher) and I think that everything Malcolm would have been ten times worse if not for him. Okay, on the other hand they might have not brought Malcolm back unless Barrowman played him. 

Once the writers make up their minds about the character (villain, anti-villain, villain who loves his daughter) and not try to make him an anti-hero, I'm certain that Malcolm could be an asset.

 

I also agree that the flashbacks would be better if they served the narrative and used as contrast/set up/complement of information, like in S1, instead of explaining the narrative beforehand and making it lose its impact like in S2-B, or written in parallel to end too directly into the narrative like in S3, all that imo. 

[quarks]

My main hope for the next season is that, with Brandon Routh mostly gone, Arrow can afford to hire an actor that can both chew the scenery like mad and come across as menacing for the Big Bad. I went through Slade, so I don't need a plot line for the guy that makes any sense, but I need someone more intimidating than Ra's.

[Chaser]

It's both really sad and gratifing to read reviews of the season. I'm glad a lot of them are calling out the bad writing, plot points and how it hurt the characters (specifically Felicity). I hope the showrunners pay close attention to that and not just the ratings for this season.

My hope is they get back to what made this show great.

 

My biggest fear involves Felicity. I want the writers to fix the writing problems and not just reduce Felicity's screentime and move away from Olicity and back to Oliver and Laurel. It makes no sense in story, but everytime I read someone trashing Olicity or Felicity I wince.

[kismet]

I am gonna defend the unpopular, the flashbacks.  In the finale the contrast between Oliver three years into his forced captivity free to go home but choosing to be alone versus Oliver three years at home choosing to embrace another and life is wonderful.

The contrast between where tragedy takes Maseo and where it takes Oliver is yet another, and explains why Oliver despite all may be able to become a hero.

Katana's chosen seclusion (which she breaks only for Oliver) is rich with comparisons and contrasts.  I suspect we will see more of just how Katana reaches Oliver and helps him from becoming someone devoid of humanity over time.  Her recognition of his monsterous acts when she was in the depths of grief and loss go far to explain present Oliver.  She is shrouded in darkness imposed on her, but not lost to it.  She came the furtherest to accept Oliver over the same year he grew more infused with darkness.

The Yamashiro's story overall shows how joy can exist and be taken, but how one can choose which path to follow in their response to the loss.

I suspect we will learn just how impactful she has been on assuring Oliver checks his own darkness when we learn why he has the tatoo.

I will confess I have been far more accepting of the flashbacks this season than the consensus from others has been.  I think it may be that I did not look for them to parallel the present action or explain it (although the virus does play a part).  Instead, I was watching for how Oliver was changing in terms of his identity.  He entered Hong Kong constantly trying to escape Waller and go home, by the time the year ended he was free to go but chose not to because of who he had become.

^^quoted from 323 episode thread ^^

 

I like the concept of the flashbacks. I like you enjoy them for the character development. I also like many of the FB characters more so than the present day characters in some seasons/episodes. I think after 3 seasons, they have had great success and not so great success with them. This season was not the greatest in terms of placement. The plot was good enough. But sometimes the FBs just seemed out of place or took you away too much from the present day. I don't think it is necessary to have a fb sequence every single episode. Or maybe not as many cut to FB. Some of the FBs this season could have been trimmed or condensed.

 

Perhaps moving fwd, they can either find a better way to edit them in so that they do not distract from the present story, esp if they are not going to be directly to that ep's plot. In 320 for example, I found them to be distracting how they were cut in. In the spring premiere, I found it distracting to have Oliver dead in present, but alive in FB. But I loved them in other episodes like the finale where we see OQ go so far out of grief for Akio. Another episode FB I really loved was Floyd Lawton's. I thought they were poignant and informed both character & plot.

 

So I think the FBs are a great asset to the show, I just think they have to find a smoother way to bring them to each episode. In s1, they really felt like FB in which we went into OQ's head. S2 felt like it was informing characters' back stories & motivations. Both made sense and flowed with the episodes. S3 felt like it was setting up the big twist which makes sense, but also has a poor payoff when you have to wait for the finale for you to know why you were supposed to be invested in HK beyond how are they going to make his wig work this time.

[statsgirl]

I want the flashbacks to be more relevant to the current storyline as they unfold.  This season they spent too much time setting up the alpha/omega virus but we didn't get the payoff for them until 322.

 

I thought they were good in s1, wasn't such a fan in s2 when it seemed like the show was about Oliver/Slade/Sara in the present, and Oliver/Slade/Sara in the flashbacks too. I think they could do something good next season comparing Oliver going dark in the flashbacks and Darmian Darhk in the present.

 

Honestly, after this season you couldn't sell me on a break up. I just wouldn't be able to buy that after everything Oliver and her went through for either one of the to come to the conclusion it wasn't working wouldn't seem right.

They couldn't sell me on them breaking up after "My Name Is Oliver Queen".  He just said that he can't be the Arrow and be with Felicity and he chose being with Felicity.  That's a helluva powerful statement..  One thing Castle did right is that after Castle and Beckett did get together, they always supported each other. That's what I want for Oliver and Felicity, and the angst to come from outside the relationship.

 

Second, put a lid on the GA/BC team ups. I know she's part of the team now. Fine. But can we not do any GA/BC teasing anymore than we have to? (No motorcycle rides-I'm just saying)

I want to see Oliver and Thea partner up rather than Oliver and Laurel.  (I'm cautiously optimistic the EPs are smart enough to avoid even the slightest hint of teasing Lauriver again.)  It would be fun to explore how Oliver deals with a hero vigilante younger sister who was trained by Malcolm Merlyn.

 

I"m also looking forward to Quentin's reactions when he finds out Sara is alive.    I was okay with the Quentin/Laurel scene in ep 323 and if the writing keeps them both being adult, it could be interesting.  Quentin's going to have a lot to deal with next season, between Laurel fighting what seems to be fulltime, Sara's return and figuring out how much to blame Oliver, and hopefully it won't all be angst because I like Paul Blackthorne.

Edited May 16, 2015 by statsgirl

[Starfish35]

He just said that he can't be the Arrow and be with Felicity and he chose being with Felicity.

But he's going to have to go back to being the Arrow somehow, or the Green Arrow - whatever. So...can we just not repeat this season's drama all over again once he realizes he can't give up the vigilantism permanently?

Speaking of Arrow vs Green Arrow - I hope they aren't going to try to solve the problem of Oliver not being able to be the Arrow in SC anymore by just adding "Green" to the name. I would hope that there is going to be more to it than that.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

Yeah, I hope his five months with Felicity will make him realize that two heroes being together are better than one working alone and torturing himself.  It just struck me as what a strong statement of his commitment to Felicity that he's willing to put aside his three year battle to be with her, albeit leaving Starling City in other hands.

 

If Oliver had let Thea be Red Arrow like she wanted, it would have been easier for him to be the Green Arrow.  But either way, hopefully his multiple personality disorder will be resolved and integrated in 4A. Quentin's going to have to have some name he can call him, other than "your boy" when he's speaking to Feliciyt.

[Chaser]

Does anyone ever think back to season one when Malcolm suggested the Green Arrow? Just….Why?

 

 

But he's going to have to go back to being the Arrow somehow, or the Green Arrow - whatever. So...can we just not repeat this season's drama all over again once he realizes he can't give up the vigilantism permanently?

Speaking of Arrow vs Green Arrow - I hope they aren't going to try to solve the problem of Oliver not being able to be the Arrow in SC anymore by just adding "Green" to the name. I would hope that there is going to be more to it than that.

Seriously. We have had enough identity issues to last four seasons. When he embraces Green Arrow, I want him to realize its just a part of who he is and accept it, no 'but can I be with the woman I love and be a hero'…we did that. Move on.

Edited May 16, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Starfish35]

It just struck me as what a strong statement of his commitment to Felicity that he's willing to put aside his three year battle to be with her, albeit leaving Starling City in other hands.

It is a strong statement, but I guess to me it's also an overly convenient parallel to the end of TDKR (these writers and their Nolan obsession). I would have preferred it if he had found a way by the end of the season to do both, not just one or the other. Because now I fear once he realizes he has to be the Arrow again (for whatever reason they come up with), he's going to try to pull away from her again. And it's going to be very stupid. Hopefully they treat it as such and put a stop to it quickly.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

It would be a backslide in character development for sure. I think Oliver needs to find some peace within himself and I'm hopeful thats what this road trip brings him.  And for Felicity? All she wanted from him was to embrace life, I don't think the thought of him not being the Arrow even occurred to her. 

 

So I would call BS if Oliver pulls the same stunt in S4 that he pulled in 3x01 and BS if Felicity just accepts it. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I don't think that Oliver chose Felicity over being the Arrow. Oliver realized that the Arrow wasn't enough to defeat Ra's (which is part of what Felicity says to Oliver in 3x23 - that both Oliver Queen and the Arrow fought Ra's and lost) and that Oliver needs to become something else. Which is why I think Oliver left with Felicity at the end of the episode, because he wanted to explore more about who that someone else is; not because he chose Felicity over the Arrow. 

 

I think that the Arrow persona is essentially gone, and when Oliver suits up again next season he'll come back as a different incarnation of himself (possibly the Green Arrow). Judging from what Felicity said about Oliver allowing himself to feel something and that being the key to defeating Ra's, I think that Oliver's new persona will essentially combine Oliver and the Arrow (heart + vigilantism). 

[arjumand]

That's what I want for Oliver and Felicity, and the angst to come from outside the relationship.

 

 

Yes, that's what I want. Why can't they be a team, in a "you and me against the world" sort of way? There can be angst out the wazoo, it doesn't have to be caused by relationship troubles.

 

As regards flashbacks going forward, I'm cautiously hopeful. I was rewatching a bit of the Lucas North storyline on Mi5 (originaly called Spooks) for something I'm writing, and it occurred to me that Oliver's one tiny Bratva tattoo means that he didn't spend much time in a Russian prison. So I'm wondering, and trying to figure out what made the Hong Kong storyline so dull, until its explosive climax. I agree that the last few Hong Kong episodes were very good (that apocalyptic opening in 321 was movie-grade good), but the middle part of the season was dullsville.

Edited May 16, 2015 by arjumand

[statsgirl]

With this show, I think the fear it's going to be repetitive is justified.  After all, Oliver's had to learn four times over three seasons that he can't do it all alone.

 

But narratively, it leaves some room for growth still.  He's just gone through a season where he realized that it doesn't work if he's just The Arrow.  He tried that, and failed miserably, both in terms of defeating Ra's and in terms of his own life.  He's realized (oh, so conveniently) that he doesn't have to be the only vigilante in Starling City.

 

But at this point, he doesn't really know who he is. He's not Ollie, the irresponsible playboy. He's not that scared kid on the island, and he's no long the killing machine ARGUS and presumably the Bratva turned him into.  Without the single-mindedness of his crusade of the past three years, he doesn't know who he is any more and so he's gone off to find out.  As long as there are decent villains in s4, hopefully he'll be able to keep his identity intact from now on.

 

I kind of want there to be season 3.5 comics, adventures with Felicity against smugglers and other bad guys as he figures out who he is and what he wants from life, interspersed with Diggle et al back home fighting crime in Starling City.

 

I don't think that Oliver chose Felicity over being the Arrow. Oliver realized that the Arrow wasn't enough to defeat Ra's (which is part of what Felicity says to Oliver in 3x23 - that both Oliver Queen and the Arrow fought Ra's and lost) and that Oliver needs to become something else. Which is why I think Oliver left with Felicity at the end of the episode, because he wanted to explore more about who that someone else is; not because he chose Felicity over the Arrow. 

I don't think he chose being with Felicity over being the Arrow, except that that's how it was written because these EPs like their parallels.  But he did choose to explore who he was with Felicity rather than continuing to focus on saving Starling City.

 

 So I'm wondering, and trying to figure out what made the Hong Kong storyline so dull, until its explosive climax. I agree that the last few Hong Kong episodes were very good (that apocalyptic opening in 320 was movie-grade good), but the middle part of the season was dullsville.

I'm thinking right now it's because they didn't have enough of a story for it, and because it only made sense at the end of the season.  They wanted an association with Maseo so he could save Oliver from Ra's, and they wanted the virus established for the end of the season, but other than that there was no story to tell so it ended up piecemeal and repetitive.

[Chaser]

Honestly, the Arrow was done back in 3x18 when Roy was arrested. They even acknowledged it in 3x19. Oliver was just saying he wouldn't go back to it even if he could. He needed to figure out how to live outside the suit and he wanted to that with Felicity. I don't think he has been Oliver Queen since he got back for the island. There was always the mission or his past in the way. To get to the Green Arrow, he needs to be Oliver Queen.

 

Sidenote: I was watching Angel. That is a broody hero type who was also a slight dork (some times Big one). That's what I can see them moving Oliver too. 

[arjumand]

I don't think that Oliver chose Felicity over being the Arrow. Oliver realized that the Arrow wasn't enough to defeat Ra's (which is part of what Felicity says to Oliver in 3x23 - that both Oliver Queen and the Arrow fought Ra's and lost) and that Oliver needs to become something else. Which is why I think Oliver left with Felicity at the end of the episode, because he wanted to explore more about who that someone else is; not because he chose Felicity over the Arrow. 

 

I think that the Arrow persona is essentially gone, and when Oliver suits up again next season he'll come back as a different incarnation of himself (possibly the Green Arrow). Judging from what Felicity said about Oliver allowing himself to feel something and that being the key to defeating Ra's, I think that Oliver's new persona will essentially combine Oliver and the Arrow (heart + vigilantism). 

 

Your words to the writers' ears!

 

But everyone saying the suit is done - he's going to be plainclothes Green Arrow? How's that going to work (is pouting because she likes the suit)? Or does everyone mean it'll be all leather, like Thea's?

 

ETA -  and that's why I'm still a bit nervous of a Barry Allen reset, in which Oliver can get back in the suit because he was never outed by R'as in Barry's new reality.

Edited May 16, 2015 by arjumand

[Ceylon5]

For me, the only clever thing they did this season was have Roy pretend to be the Arrow and then 'die'.  It's been bothering me a lot since the first season that there are numerous murders and crimes that Oliver should legitimately be locked up for.  It prevented him from ever being an 'outed' hero (and was why Lance was never allowed to know who he really was).  It meant that those crimes could have, at any point, come back to bite him in the ass.  But by ascribing all those crimes to the Arrow, then identifying the Arrow with Roy Harper (deceased), all those crimes automatically get relegated to the 'Solved' pile and everyone moves on.  It cleverly gives Oliver a clean slate.  Now he can be whatever kind of hero he likes (and he could say he's taken the name Green Arrow to honour the fallen Arrow if a clarification seems needed).  If, going forward, he makes sure he sticks to his no-kill rule and only behaves in an heroic manner, then people will have no reason to immediately assume the worst if someone comes and tries to blacken his name as Ra's did.  In the case of the Arrow, the memory that he was a killer vigilante only 2 years earlier meant that people were quick to believe he'd gone back to his old ways.  But a new hero who has apparently always made a point of never killing anyone, would not be as easily tarnished.

 

I hope that the whole secret identity thing will drop away entirely sooner rather than later.  Why shouldn't people know his identity?  It was only necessary to hide it up till now because he had, in fact, committed crimes he should have been locked up for.  But going forward, that will no longer be a problem, so why not just dive in there and let everyone know exactly who he is?  All the bad guys already know, so it seems a little pointless only hiding it from the good guys. (ETA: I know nothing about comic books, though, so maybe this violates some unbreakable Comic Book Rule?)

Edited May 16, 2015 by Ceylon5

[Password]

I don't think that Oliver chose Felicity over being the Arrow. Oliver realized that the Arrow wasn't enough to defeat Ra's (which is part of what Felicity says to Oliver in 3x23 - that both Oliver Queen and the Arrow fought Ra's and lost) and that Oliver needs to become something else. Which is why I think Oliver left with Felicity at the end of the episode, because he wanted to explore more about who that someone else is; not because he chose Felicity over the Arrow.

I think that the Arrow persona is essentially gone, and when Oliver suits up again next season he'll come back as a different incarnation of himself (possibly the Green Arrow). Judging from what Felicity said about Oliver allowing himself to feel something and that being the key to defeating Ra's, I think that Oliver's new persona will essentially combine Oliver and the Arrow (heart + vigilantism).

10 thumps up to this post.

[tv echo]

I'm already dreading the Season 4 cast poster (costumed heroes in the center, with D/F relegated to the background?)...

[arjumand]

For me, the only clever thing they did this season was have Roy pretend to be the Arrow and then 'die'.  It's been bothering me a lot since the first season that there are numerous murders and crimes that Oliver should legitimately be locked up for.  It prevented him from ever being an 'outed' hero (and was why Lance was never allowed to know who he really was).  It meant that those crimes could have, at any point, come back to bite him in the ass.  But by ascribing all those crimes to the Arrow, then identifying the Arrow with Roy Harper (deceased), all those crimes automatically get relegated to the 'Solved' pile and everyone moves on.  It cleverly gives Oliver a clean slate.  Now he can be whatever kind of hero he likes (and he could say he's taken the name Green Arrow to honour the fallen Arrow if a clarification seems needed).  If, going forward, he makes sure he sticks to his no-kill rule and only behaves in an heroic manner, then people will have no reason to immediately assume the worst if someone comes and tries to blacken his name as Ra's did.  In the case of the Arrow, the memory that he was a killer vigilante only 2 years earlier meant that people were quick to believe he'd gone back to his old ways.  But a new hero who has apparently always made a point of never killing anyone, would not be as easily tarnished.

 

I agree with you completely - that's why I couldn't understand how everyone on the show was saying Oliver could never be the Arrow again, R'as took that from you, bla bla bla.

Err, no. Roy Harper confessed to being the Arrow (did they have a tiny tiny Arrow suit lying around, just for him?), died in prison, the end. If Oliver comes back in the suit, everyone will know it isn't Roy, because Oliver is 6 feet tall and built like a linebacker (not being American, I have no idea what that means, so I googled it).

 

As regards the secret identity, I think it's not just a comic book rule - vigilantism is against the law however you interpret it.

The only thing R'as took was Quentin's plausible deniability!