Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Password]

I don't know, it would be wish fulfillment for me because I wanted her to go crazy in season 2.

[wonderwall]

I don't know, it would be wish fulfillment for me because I wanted her to go crazy in season 2.

 

Didn't she go crazy during the whole 'resurrect Sara' storyline?

[Password]

...not really. No one really recognised she was going crazy (except Oliver) because of the guise that she was trying to fulfill justice.

I meant crazy in a villain sense. You know "the world owes me, the hero destroyed my life" sense.

[wonderwall]

...not really. No one really recognised she was going crazy (except Oliver) because of the guise that she was trying to fulfill justice.

I meant crazy in a villain sense. You know "the world owes me, the hero destroyed my life" sense.

 

Lol it was a joke because I felt like she went completely mental during that arc. Like caressing Sara's coffin or telling a deranged soulless Sara that "daddy will be so happy to see [her]". 

 

I've always wanted Laurel to become a villain because that suits KCs strengths. But alas, comics ruined everything I wished for her character lol

[bijoux]

 

I've always wanted Laurel to become a villain because that suits KCs strengths. But alas, comics ruined everything I wished for her character lol

I feel Laurel, as she's written, would work as an anti-hero as well. I'd certainly feel like it's a logical way to present the character in that case and would be in favor of that role being given to a woman. I think they've tried putting Malcolm in that role but it doesn't work.

[Chaser]

With Person of Interest winding down, I would be cool with Jim Caviezel playing Felicitys Dad.

[AyChihuahua]

With Person of Interest winding down, I would be cool with Jim Caviezel playing Felicitys Dad.

He's one of those actors for which I have a really hard time separating the actor from characters he plays.  

 

I really liked Frequency, though...although that has more to do with my very long-time thing for Dennis Quaid.

[Chaser]

Frequency is so underrated. I liked The Count of Monte Cristo too (and yes, I know it's very different from the book). I thought he was good in both.

[kismet]

If we are putting in requests for PapaSmoak. I elect Peter Outerbridge. From his Nikita gig I know he is believable as Bratva Mob Leader. From his Orphan Black I know he is a good contender for playing misguided & bad father of the year. Plus we know he is willing to work on a CW budget and gives his all to a performance. He also has a niche quality about him that the Arrow  casting/TPTB enjoy.

[statsgirl]

The original Detective Murdoch!  He was also the main scientist in ReGenesis and the Folding Man on Sanctuary.

 

He seems enough of a shapeshifter that he could be whatever they wanted Felicity's father to be..

[kismet]

Inspired by the speculation in the spoilers section - but putting it here since it has no Spoilers in it.

 

1) Could I watch a show without FS, if FS was killed off?
Yes, probably. Depending on how they had OQ handle it. I probably could try to watch it. They could have him grieve for a year and then cast a new LI for the later seasons. It would not be my preference, but its possible.

2) Could Mr. Terrific replace FS?
NO, I'm in the minority here. I like the guy in small quantities. But I don't love him. I think he spends just about the right amount of time on the show as is and probably too much time in some episodes.

3) Could LL's role ever get increased again? Would she become the LI again? 
I hope not. Because this would make me quit the show. LL's role has already become too big & cumbersome a burden for the show. I liked her in s1. But they have done too much to the character and made her a very annoying presence on the screen. If her screentime or role got increased or valued higher - I would be out.

4) Do I think FS could stay dead?
Realistically the show would be dumb to do this. But I have figured out a loophole for them, should they be inclined to go crazy & kill a popular lead. I think they could kill FS as she is now and then have an Earth 2 FS (played by EBR) come and replace her in Arrow. We know that OQ is dead in E2, which means that FS may be searching for her soulmate in E2. Something goes wrong & E2FS needs to stay in ARROW. Bonus to this scenario – E2FS could have fighting and tech skills, so she would be able to join OQ in the field. Perhaps E2FS may even be the BC, so they could do canon & keep EBR as LI.

[BkWurm1]

4) Do I think FS could stay dead?

Realistically the show would be dumb to do this. But I have figured out a loophole for them, should they be inclined to go crazy & kill a popular lead. I think they could kill FS as she is now and then have an Earth 2 FS (played by EBR) come and replace her in Arrow. We know that OQ is dead in E2, which means that FS may be searching for her soulmate in E2. Something goes wrong & E2FS needs to stay in ARROW. Bonus to this scenario – E2FS could have fighting and tech skills, so she would be able to join OQ in the field. Perhaps E2FS may even be the BC, so they could do canon & keep EBR as LI.

 

Would I still watch if this happened?  Maybe?  BUT it would hurt like hell.  No.  On second though, if I didn't think they'd be able to bring back the original Felicity, I would not watch.  This is too akin to the amnesia reset storyline horror for me, where you have the same person but all the stuff that I loved about them - this history, the moments, the connections - is gone. The only time when something like that would work for me (swapping alternative universe characters) is if there was no discernible differences to the character's experiences (would have the same memories) but we already know that the E2 universe is too far different for that to happen. 

 

It's a storyline that I might welcome if they killed Felicity off and then a few months later brought in the new version but if they popped in the new person right away I would just resent the living daylights out of them but more realistically I wouldn't have hung around to see them bring in an E2 Felicity.  I would have already quit the Berlanti Universe. 

[arjumand]

4) Do I think FS could stay dead?

Realistically the show would be dumb to do this. But I have figured out a loophole for them, should they be inclined to go crazy & kill a popular lead. I think they could kill FS as she is now and then have an Earth 2 FS (played by EBR) come and replace her in Arrow. We know that OQ is dead in E2, which means that FS may be searching for her soulmate in E2. Something goes wrong & E2FS needs to stay in ARROW. Bonus to this scenario – E2FS could have fighting and tech skills, so she would be able to join OQ in the field. Perhaps E2FS may even be the BC, so they could do canon & keep EBR as LI.

 

I don't think I could be on board with this at all. People aren't interchangeable, and I would lose all my respect for Oliver Queen if I thought for a minute that he would treat the supposed love of his life in that way.

 

Also, we already have proof, from Flash, that the Earth2 people are only physically identical, not character. I don't mean Harrison Wells, because what we saw on the show was Eobard Thawne in Wells's body.

 

No, I'm talking about Linda Park. On Earth 1 she's a crusading journalist with a finely developed sense of ethics, while on Earth 2 she's a scientist who, after becoming a metahuman, has no problem killing people in order to ensure her safety.

 

Even if they were identical in character, it would be so very very wrong. In my opinion, of course.

 

 

It's a storyline that I might welcome if they killed Felicity off and then a few months later brought in the new version but if they popped in the new person right away I would just resent the living daylights out of them but more realistically I wouldn't have hung around to see them bring in an E2 Felicity.  I would have already quit the Berlanti Universe. 

 

I'm with you. No fridging, thanks.

[kismet]

Would I still watch if this happened?  Maybe?  BUT it would hurt like hell.  No.  On second though, if I didn't think they'd be able to bring back the original Felicity, I would not watch.  This is too akin to the amnesia reset storyline horror for me, where you have the same person but all the stuff that I loved about them - this history, the moments, the connections - is gone. The only time when something like that would work for me (swapping alternative universe characters) is if there was no discernible differences to the character's experiences (would have the same memories) but we already know that the E2 universe is too far different for that to happen. 

 

It's a storyline that I might welcome if they killed Felicity off and then a few months later brought in the new version but if they popped in the new person right away I would just resent the living daylights out of them but more realistically I wouldn't have hung around to see them bring in an E2 Felicity.  I would have already quit the Berlanti Universe. 

I agree that it would suck... I'm not advocating for it. I don't honestly think they have explained a lot about E2. And I have a feeling the rules are very fluid, so anything goes. Perhaps they go to E3 where there is shared memories. I was just trying to find a loophole for the show, so they can keep the chemistry of EBR/SA & still get to keep their "death".

[thegirlsleuth]

I wouldn't want a long term amnesia storyline, although I could enjoy a short-term amnesia storyline where Oliver tries to keep Felicity out of crime-fighting/his secret identify, but even in her altered state she is able to figure out who he is and is able to help stop the bad guys.  

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, the idea of another Felicity replacing the original Felicity is even more disgusting to me than fridging Felicity so Oliver can manpain. It reeks of male fantasy misery porn, and just. Yuck.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Password]

It would be very Gwen Stacey-ish if they fridge Felicity now. And bringing in an E-2 Felicity would make me kind of ragey. If you want to kill her off, let it be. Don't replace her with a Felicity I have no interest in getting to know. It would kind of taint what Oliver and Felicity had to me. Seeing him fall for her would be...icky.

[dtissagirl]

Also, this kind of replacing a female character with their doppleganger in a love story means she HAS to fall for the guy because the previous owner of her face and body did it, or what is even her narrative point? It reeks of all women are the same, and replaceable from a guy's POV.

 

There's no way to get away with a storyline wherein Earth 2 Felicity meets Oliver and goes, "look, you're pretty and all, but you remind me too much of my uncle Bob who's a major dick, so just the thought of finding you attractive is making me wanna puke, better luck next time, bro. Kthanxbai!" The need for her to fall for the protagonist is embedded in her existence, and that's icky.

[kismet]

Agree that it would be a horrible idea and plot. I definitely don’t want them to go there. But I guess, I just don’t trust them to not at least consider the idea as a loop hole considering what they have been “ok” with in previous seasons that at a low threshold a majority of people would consider “icky”.

[Guest]

I legitimately can't even picture Arrow without Felicity. I would never watch it without her. As much as I want them to focus more on Oliver as the main character and as much as I love Diggle, Felicity brings something else to this show and the characters and if she's gone I know I'd just end up resenting everything. There's only one reason for killing Felicity and that's comic canon reasons and they can GTFO with that crap right now. No thank you. I'd just wave goodbye to the show with one hand while giving them the middle finger with the other. 

[lexicon]

All this speculation about an E2 Felicity doppleganger now has me worried that TPTB will try to pull that BS and then try to right the sinking (ratings) ship with a "it was all a dream" a la Bobby Ewing from Dallas, which is not as crazy as it sounds if you consider our showrunners and their love of epic, seismic, game-changing-but-not-really twists.   

[arjumand]

All this speculation about an E2 Felicity doppleganger now has me worried that TPTB will try to pull that BS and then try to right the sinking (ratings) ship with a "it was all a dream" a la Bobby Ewing from Dallas, which is not as crazy as it sounds if you consider our showrunners and their love of epic, seismic, game-changing-but-not-really twists.   

 

I doubt they'd go for that, because they're the age group, I think, who would have been watching tv when all that shit went down.

 

BTW, I really, really hate that device.

 

I know they've said the death will be final, and I'm increasingly convinced that it's Quentin in the coffin, but what if they did to Felicity what DD did to all the ghosts - faked her death and drugged her to obey Damien Darkh? I mean, it would certainly stop Oliver in his tracks when he went after DD, if one of the ghosts took off 'his' balaclava and it was blank-faced, pointing a gun at him, Felicity.

Edited November 24, 2015 by arjumand

[AyChihuahua]

I know they've said the death will be final, and I'm increasingly convinced that it's Quentin in the coffin, but what if they did to Felicity what DD did to all the ghosts - faked her death and drugged her to obey Damien Darkh? I mean, it would certainly stop Oliver in his tracks when he went after DD, if one of the ghosts took off 'his' balaclava and it was blank-faced, pointing a gun at him, Felicity.

That works great in fanfic, but they are limited in how long they can keep Oliver and Felicity separated in the show.  So it'd be a few episodes at most.

 

The drugs will probably come up, but I am not convinced it will beyond what we've seen, bc frankly this show is the king of dropped threads.

[arjumand]

That works great in fanfic, but they are limited in how long they can keep Oliver and Felicity separated in the show.  So it'd be a few episodes at most.

 

The drugs will probably come up, but I am not convinced it will beyond what we've seen, bc frankly this show is the king of dropped threads.

 

Oh, absolutely. I'm still enraged that MG forgot (or said he forgot) that they'd written Oliver as such a perfect speaker of Mandarin that an actual native speaker of the language was fooled. I mean, seriously? My blood pressure spikes when I remember that, and then I remember why I try to keep away from BTS stuff and social media. Basically, when I was at university I was completely won over by the Death of the Author critical theory - i.e. it doesn't matter what the author (or showrunner, or screenwriter) intended, what matters is the text, and only that. So I have to get back in that mindspace. But then I get bored.

 

It's just - do they not keep a 'series bible'? Or is that not cool anymore?

[AyChihuahua]

Oh, absolutely. I'm still enraged that MG forgot (or said he forgot) that they'd written Oliver as such a perfect speaker of Mandarin that an actual native speaker of the language was fooled. I mean, seriously? My blood pressure spikes when I remember that, and then I remember why I try to keep away from BTS stuff and social media. 

I haven't, and never will, watch 3.10-3.22, because I have probably never hated anything in tv more than I hated everything about the LOA bullshit/Oliver being a stupid asshole storyline of those episodes, BUT, I kept up here and with reviews, and I HATE HATE HATE the dropped thread of Felicity's big speech to RAG that went ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE.  Once Felicity et al. left Oliver in Nanda they were just done with him forever, apparently.  Between that and how casual his big return was in 3.12, I am pretty convinced that no member of TA was really all that into Oliver.

 

S4 is much better.  I'm feeling the TA love again, and I get that there were out-of-show reasons for all that stuff...but I don't care.  Within the story it all absolutely sucked.  

[ParadoxLost]

I have only seen the premiere and this week's crossovers this season so I'll apologize up front if I'm speculating on something the show already dealt with.

 

It seems to me like the death from the premiere has to be the Mother of Oliver's kid.  It explains Oliver is there alone until Barry shows up.  Its probably the dreaded changing time karma Barry was worried about tonight.  And it forces Oliver to tell Felicity that he has been lying to her because there is no one else to care for his kid. 

[Trini]

The 'Who's in the grave?' mystery: Now I'm thinking Oliver'sBabyMama and Oliver's son are strong candidates. There are a few cons though: I don't think they really want to kill off a kid (again), especially since William is directly related to Oliver. Also, if they kill off the mother, Oliver would feel obligated to take William in, right? Even if he sent him to live in a monastery overseas, he'd still have to be a part of Oliver's life, and I don't think the writers really want a kid added to the show.

 

Quentin is ahead of both of those two on my list, though.

[Morrigan2575]

My problem with the death being Baby Mama or William is that Oliver said he didn't feel guilty. I just can't see Oliver NOT feeling guilty if his son or Baby Mama were killed by DD.

I could see him saying it over just about everyone else because they all chose to be apart of this fight. But Samantha, William, even Donna would be collateral damage and Oliver would/should feel guilty.

[Carrie Ann]

He didn't say he didn't feel guilty. He said that before, he would have thought this was his fault, now he knows it's his responsibility. To end this...whatever. But I agree with you that even the more mature Oliver we got to know prior to this evening would have still reverted back to believing it was his fault in that situation.

[Morrigan2575]

Ok he didn't say guilty but you're wording actually supports my thoughts. Oliver would totally think William or Samantha's death would be his fault

[quarks]

Yeah. Since Oliver has changed the timeline by not telling Felicity, I think he would feel guilty about either Samantha or William dying, since it's now very arguable that if he had followed his original instinct after the time reset (that is, stay out of the kid's life entirely), or if he'd told Felicity and not changed the timeline, Samantha or William would still be alive.

 

I feel I'm using the wrong verb tenses here. What's that Hitchhiker's Guide joke about time travel being hellish for grammar?

[tv echo]

I don't think it's William or Samantha in the grave.

 

However, after last night's episode, I fear that Olicity are headed toward a breakup near the end of the season - which would explain why Oliver is standing alone at the gravesite in the flashforward.  If so, then my hope is that Oliver asks Felicity to give him another chance in the season finale - and they spend the summer hiatus rebuilding their relationship.

[hogwash]

 If so, then my hope is that Oliver asks Felicity to give him another chance in the season finale - and they spend the summer hiatus rebuilding their relationship.

 

Please no. Not again. 

 

I'm hoping that ~spoilers are not as they seem~

and Oliver proposes in the finale after they've worked out their issues. 

[dtissagirl]

I'm thinking the break up is much earlier than the end of the season -- most likely during February Sweeps, so around 412-415.

[Guest]

What episode was it last season when Felicity told him she didn't want to be a woman he loves? 312 or 313? Because they'll do the break-up to parallel that this season. 413. 

[Morrigan2575]

Yep, 412-413. It fits their stupid pattern.

Hit the Olicity breaks in 213. Sara/Oliver a couple 214-220. Start getting valuable Olicity scenes starting in 221. Fake ILY in 223

Hit the Olicity breaks in 312. Felicity/Ray hookup in 315-319. Oliver/Felicity sex in 320, ride off into the sunset in 323.

Prediction: Hit the Olicity breaks in 413. No real hookup, hopefully. Olicity on break from 414-419. Death happens in 419, brings them closer together. Real proposal in 423 (which I probably won't enjoy)

Edited December 3, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

^^ Pretty sure that's EXACTLY what's going to happen, yes.

[apinknightmare]

After doing a rewatch this morning, I'm actually thinking that the fallout from the keeping the kid a secret isn't going to be the actual secret keeping, but Oliver accepting that his role in the kid's life is only going to be that of "mom's friend." And that he was willing to go along with that for the rest of the kid's life, I guess? 

[dtissagirl]

"Well, you see, Felicity, I hid the fact that I found out I had a kid I never knew about because this way, I can sneak around behind your back and go visit him occasionally disguised as an old acquaintance of his mother. It's a super healthy relationship for me, for you, and for him! Everyone wins!"

[Password]

"Well, you see, Felicity, I hid the fact that I found out I had a kid I never knew about because this way, I can sneak around behind your back and go visit him occasionally disguised as an old acquaintance of his mother. It's a super healthy relationship for me, for you, and for him! Everyone wins!"

Another reason why I hated that final cuddling scene: it reeked of "have your cake and eat it".

[lemotomato]

What episode was it last season when Felicity told him she didn't want to be a woman he loves? 312 or 313? Because they'll do the break-up to parallel that this season. 413.

"I don't want to be a woman you love" was 312. "Canaries" was 313.

[Morrigan2575]

Ah, got my episode wrong for the S3 breakup. Will go update to 312

[nksarmi]

Does anyone now believe that baby momma is in the grave?  And Oliver's going to end up getting a kid for season five? They wouldn't really spend all of season five with wacky hijinks between Felicity, Thea, and Laurel trying to prevent this kid from discovering his dad is GA, would they?

[dtissagirl]

Another reason why I hated that final cuddling scene: it reeked of "have your cake and eat it".

 

Yup. I actually think I would be less disgusted with Oliver if he had decided to never see the kid again, and then keeping it a secret.

[Morrigan2575]

No, I don't believe Baby Mama is in the grave. I don't think even these idiots want to deal with a full time child story.

[theacostov]

Yup. I actually think I would be less disgusted with Oliver if he had decided to never see the kid again, and then keeping it a secret.

I might have preferred it if he'd just broken up with her. Told her he can't tell her why but doesn't want to keep lies from her while in a relationship. Still stupid but less gross.

[Password]

If Oliver had any source of remorse for lying to Felicity I would've been OK with him saying he can't tell her yet. There's some things he wants to work out still, but to please trust him. It's reminiscent of Al Saheem but it's not a lie, and it would show some guilt and forethought put into the situation.

Instead he seems happy as a clam.

[hogwash]

If or when (lbr) she breakups with him, I want an actual conversation. The two(?) psuedo-breakups we've gotten have been exactly the same. Felicity makes it really clear that she's really pissed about Oliver's decision and explains why. Oliver stands there barely saying anything to explain his (lbr) stupid thought process. I hope it doesn't happen again.  

[apinknightmare]

Yup. I actually think I would be less disgusted with Oliver if he had decided to never see the kid again, and then keeping it a secret.

 

I wish they'd given him two minutes more with Barry to talk this out so I could understand where he was coming from. It seemed like he wasn't even planning on being that involved, since Samantha told him that William couldn't ever know he was Oliver's son, and Oliver told William that he'd like to come and say hi once in a while. He's not exactly going to be at all active in the kid's life, so this seems like a lot of drama over nothing? 

[looptab]

I wish they'd given him two minutes more with Barry to talk this out so I could understand where he was coming from. It seemed like he wasn't even planning on being that involved, since Samantha told him that William couldn't ever know he was Oliver's son, and Oliver told William that he'd like to come and say hi once in a while. He's not exactly going to be at all active in the kid's life, so this seems like a lot of drama over nothing? 

But Oliver didn't know that she would put those conditions when he talks with Barry about it.? Or did he?