S18.E09: Week 9 : The Semi-Finals

[Barbara Manatee]

 

But anyone who cares enough about the show to go onto a forum such as this one and read all these comments and talk about the episode... why wouldn't you also vote?

 

The longer I watch these shows and the more I talk about them in forums, the less likely I am to vote. Once I start to recognize the audience manipulations and the petty cruelties toward the contestants, voting makes me feel a little dirty. This week is a case in point. I've been voting for Meryl and Charlie all season, but after that stunt of pitting them against each other in the bottom two and making them stew about it forever, it was finally too much. I couldn't bring myself to vote for Meryl because it would have felt like I was endorsing the meanness. 

 

So I'll watch and I'll talk, but I won't vote. It's kind of a silly line in the sand, but it's my line.

[Charlie Baker]

I've watched this show a long time, and what gets me motivated to vote is the dancing.   So if a number doesn't do much for me, even if it's a couple I enjoy, I don't vote.  Conversely, a couple I don't particularly like much, either pro or celeb or both, comes up with a dance that impresses me, I will probably vote for them.  

 

Voting really doesn't take all that much effort, unlike say the early seasons of American Idol.

 

So this week I threw all my votes to Meryl and Maks.  

[Woodrose]

Peta's freestyles haven't been so good and I think Donald Driver had a huge hand in guiding Peta to her one success.

 

 

Sorry to be picky, but Peta has only done the one freestyle.  Her only trip to the finals was with Donald, and they won the trophy with their freestyle.  This will be Peta's second time in the final round.

 

The four pros in the finals this season have all created winning freestyle routines, except Maks.  Peta won with Donald, Mark won with Kristi and Shawn, and Derek won the trophy with Brook, Jennifer, Nicole, Kellie, and Amber.  No pressure on Maks this week, none at all  :)

[JustAlison]

Television is a passive activity for me. I don't vote because that would require action.  Also, being Canadian, I don't think I can. But when there are Canadian versions of these shows, I don't participate beyond watching. Voting just feels like work. 

 

I think if I did feel motivated to vote for a show result, I would be unlikely anyway, as there appear to be crazy voting blocks etc that would make my few votes feel utterly pointless. The winners of these shows are always so predictable anyway, that voting seems like a waste of my time. 

 

I wonder if Candace's dance for Jesus talk will alienate some of her supporters? I wasn't offended by it, nor was I moved, but I wonder if viewers will feel more inclined to paint her with her brother's crazy colours. I would be interested to know if Candace has publicly distanced herself from some of his rhetoric, or if she is a quiet supporter. Like, I wish I knew where she draws her personal line on religion, same sex couples, etc. 

 

I find James boring, but I am impressed with what he is able to do. Well, I was impressed, until we looked him up. I guess his band is a Nickleodeon thing, and he seems to be a theatre school grad. So, I am not as surprised at his ability. He's kind of a grown-up Disney kid, and not really any kind of rocker like I thought he was.

[Uke]

Re voting...isn't that what the commercials are for??? Heehee!

 

I get all my home/cellphone votes in during the 1st or 1st+2nd commercials. Waiting till the end of the show, it's ridiculous trying to get through. My tv is on my desk next to my computer so I vote on the website during all the other commercials. A 2 hour show is really only about 1 hour, 24 minutes so there's plenty of time.

Sorry to be picky, but Peta has only done the one freestyle.  Her only trip to the finals was with Donald, and they won the trophy with their freestyle.  This will be Peta's second time in the final round.

 

Ahh yes, you're correct. I was thinking she assisted on one but I'm probably confusing something else.

[Corazi]

I don't think Candace would have alienated anyone with her talk about dancing for God. Her packages in the first few weeks of the show made it clear that her faith was a huge priority for her, so I imagine people already knew that. While she also didn't move or offend me, she seemed like she was just talking about how excited she is by the faith that she has and what it means to her, which if anything may have gained her a few more votes with religious people. She didn't sound like she was trying to attack anyone so I doubt it lost her votes.

 

As for her brother, I don't know. Her website has a part where she talks about her faith and she mentions him once, but I don't think she wants to get caught up in all the crazy stuff he talks about. From the way it sounds, I think she quietly supports what he says though and believes exactly what the bible says about things.

[Dots And Stripes]

And he kept saying that the "favorites" were in jeopardy.  Well Candace and James must be a lot of people's favorites too since they made it to the finals.  Tom's comments just seemed like thinly veiled insults to me as well.

What annoyed me about Tom acting surprised is that he knows full well how this show operates. He knows that the producers are free to pick any 2 couples in the bottom 3 alongside the couple going home.

 

I was also struck by how closely the bottom 3 mirrored the commercial from earlier in the week, which I think is still on the official DWTS facebook page. The commercial featured a countdown from 5 to 1. It included something about 3 Olympians and 2 underdogs. Sure enough, we saw the 2 underdogs safe and the shock of one of the 3 Olympians going home. The format this season means someone at the show can know exactly who is going home Tuesday night or Wednesday morning. Maybe that info wasn't shared with the ad department, but it makes me wonder.

[JenLily]

I really think when this season first started, the producers were counting on a Meryl/Charlie or Danica/Candace showdown.  But when they saw the crazy amounts of audience support Amy was getting, they threw all their focus into getting Amy into the finals.  In my opinion, that meant giving her easier dances to do. . . and by "easier" I mean dances where Derek could work around her prosthetics more easily, not that they're simpler to learn.  At no point in the season was she assigned a dance where she didn't have physical support by Derek.  There was no paso doble, no fox trot, no Viennese waltz.  And the one waltz she was assigned, she did poorly but Derek expertly hid that with a boatload of fog on the floor so her feet were obscured.  I don't want Amy to win not because she hasn't done well with the dances she was given (she has) but because this season was so clearly slanted in her favor.  So much so that even the obvious errors (like in Monday's jazz dance with the supremely obvious lack of synchronicity with Derek) are being overlooked by the judges.  To be honest, I'm a little surprised that so many people are commenting that they think Derek is the one being favored.  In my opinion, it's Amy that's being favored and she lucked out by having Derek as her choreographer.  The judges already expect creative things from him so he can use that to his advantage to pull Amy through.  I wouldn't have minded the table being used in the jazz dance (much like I didn't mind Amber's sit-down dance last season) but coming on the heels of her Argentine tango that incorporated a stool -- I'm sorry but you don't *sit down* in the middle of a tango -- plus the majority of her other dances where it seemed the main elements consisted of Derek picking her up and twirling her, it was too much for me to handle.  I liked her jive earlier in the season and I was so impressed with her quickstep because there was so much more dance content in those dances.  Even Mark gave her more to do in their salsa.  She was unsteady but at least I got the sense that she was really putting herself out there and trying hard.  I really think Derek failed her (and the viewing audience frankly) by not pushing her to her limits with each dance.  It's positively shameful that it took until the semi-finals for her to actually travel the floor.

 

I was so disappointed that Charlie was voted off but I had a terrible feeling that would happen after Meryl's low scores last week.  I split my votes between the two of them but so many people seemed to be sending their votes Meryl's way that I was afraid he'd get left behind.  I think he was such a gregarious performer and I'm sad that we don't get to see more of him.  His samba wasn't great but I adored his foxtrot.  I thought it really showed off the best parts of him.

 

I liked James in the beginning but I've been bored with him for a while now.  I think his best dance was during Disney week and from that point on he stayed pretty static.  I wouldn't have been too upset to see him go.  I don't understand how Carrie Ann raved about his hips during his rumba.  There was no hip action at all, none, unless you counted his panicked side-to-side hip juts as rumba-esque.

 

Candace has improved so much from the beginning of the season.  Yes, she's not exactly a technically proficient dancer but she's been doing so well the last few weeks.  I've looked forward to her dances a lot.  I'm not that upset she made it into the finals even though I would have preferred Danica and/or Charlie instead.  I felt bad when she flubbed her Viennese waltz.  You could tell from her face that she was panicking and losing it.  I actually liked her jazz routine, and I'm betting it would have been a lot better had she not messed up her first dance.  It seemed like she was being overly cautious to make sure she didn't forget anything rather than just throwing herself into the dance.

 

The people that have most disappointed me this season have been the judges.  I noticed last season, too, that it seems like someone took the teeth out of all of them.  I didn't like it when they made unnecessarily cruel comments to the stars, but I always appreciated them noticing and pointing out the errors or shortcomings in a dance.  When pointed out properly, it was constructive criticism that the pros and the stars could take back to the dance room and work on for the following week.  They've been rendered virtually useless these last couple of seasons, heaping praise where it doesn't belong and over- or underscoring seemingly at random.  Cutting Amy as much slack as they have has done such a disservice to her and to the viewers.  I'd really like it if they could act like proper judges (I mean, as much as they ever did before) instead of the screeching, arm-waving, melodramatic sycophants they've turned into.  Even my beloved Len, who I used to be able to count on to point out the technical errors, has gone soft.  Sad.

 

ETA:  This is my very first post ever on any boards so please forgive me if I made any errors/shouldn't have said something/wrote about something in the wrong spot.  :)

Edited May 14, 2014 by JenLily

[smiley13]

 

But when they saw the crazy amounts of audience support Amy was getting, they threw all their focus into getting Amy into the finals.

Crazy amounts of support??  I have seen a lot of backlash against Amy because the judges have treated her differently all season.  Being paired with someone who is polarizing like Derek has not been good, unless I guess people see it as good because the judges let him get away with murder.  Len would have screamed to high heaven about the table farce if anyone else had done it, not to mention the stool fiasco the week before.

 

I felt very manipulated as I watched this week.  It was almost as bad as Evan's season.

[Woodrose]

I am wondering at my own choice of words, 'deserving' to win a trophy on a reality show. Yeah, I don't know that Amy or anyone else 'deserves' to win. Maybe it's a poor word for what I mean. I find the journey of a young woman literally cut down in the prime of her life rising above that and dancing her way to a finish a way more satisfactory story than a young woman trained in dance all her life winning a dance competition on the heels of an Olympic medal for...dancing.  So, instead of saying Amy 'deserves' to win, I guess I should say it would be more satisfying to me, personally, if she did.

 

 

 

Thoughtful comment, JustAlison.  And a sentiment that I can imagine is widely shared among general viewers.

 

But, if you look at the Pro side of these couples, the 'deserving, satisfying winner' gets turned on its head.  What is more satisfying, to watch Derek win his 6th trophy, or Maks win his first?

 

I've written some critical things about Maks, but I voted for him this week.  But I don't think of it as voting for Maks/Meryl, but as doing my Mom a favor. She's a Maks fan, really wants him to win, and asked me to vote for them.  First time in the 13 seasons we've been watching and talking about the show each week, so of course I did as she asked.

 

Maybe the winner will be determined by which sentiment is stronger among the voting public, the desire to see the woman on prosthetic legs triumphantly hoist the trophy, or the wish for a longtime pro to get his first win.

 

Or maybe the hot boy bander or sweet Christian mom will sweep in and take the glittery prize.  I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

[crowceilidh]

From a parting interview with Charlie:

 

 

 

Would you have done anything differently over the past nine weeks?

Absolutely not. That’s one of the reasons we can hold our heads so high leaving. We can honestly say to ourselves and to each other that we did pretty much everything we could have, whether it be choreographically or being true to ourselves in a reality TV show, which maybe isn’t always the easiest, or the way we represented ourselves. It’s not easy, but we did literally everything that we could.

I thought the comment about being true to themselves in a reality tv show suggests that he understood that he was getting damned by his truncated packages and that he deliberately chose not to make up some reality-show narrative...  I think it's touching that he has that much faith in the voting public.

I'm a Canadian.  I vote because it tells me things about my emotional response.  I sign on the ABC site every week, look at the pictures of the couples and distribute all of my votes to those whom I wish to continue to see (this season was nearly all for Charlie and Meryl and Danica).  This season has been anamolous because I've liked so many people.  I find it instructive how many times I give all of my votes to one couple because I'm just not that interested in the others.

 

At the beginning of each season, the voting takes me a while because I have to remember what my logon is, but after I'm signed on for the season, it can take almost 2 minutes.  

 

I also like voting because I feel it validates my complaints i.e. I am a participant, so I can rant.

Edited May 14, 2014 by crowceilidh

[LilJen]

Charlie is a nice, charming, funny guy.  It is utterly absurd that the producers could not create video packages for him showing his charm and humor.  It's unbelievable to me that we never saw this Instagram clip on DWTS

http://instagram.com/p/nk2ZxFk5O2/

Charlie on ice with his dog!  Overflowing cuteness!  His dog, named DJ -- for Candace's character on Full House!  And the producers never showed this bit of cuteness, tied in perfectly to another contestant.  

Damn it all.  Producer malpractice, I'm calling it.

 

 

 

Damn!  You are so right!  Here I was blaming America for not throwing their votes to Charlie, but it really is all about manipulation.  So Charlie and Sharna didn't have any drama, other than being tired and wanting a perfect score (which pissed off some people).  Why didn't the producers focus on this adorable, loving every-mother's-dream of a young man with floppy hair and a charming laugh?  Oh yeah, because All American loses to sexy bad boy persona.

 

What a fucking shame.

 

It's too bad that the show's producers think that nice + cute = lack of drama. Yes, I liked his dancing, but I also appreciated his sense of fun, and they could really have shown a lot more of it. Instead we got other stars throwing hissy fits, crying, and sexing it up, because I guess that's what viewer's like to see??

This! I don't blame Amy for the fact that Derek has her sit on her ass for over half of a dance, because Derek's the one making those decisions.  I blame him, and I blame the show (and, especially the 3 fools slobbering all over him every chance they get, week after week, season after season) for getting him to the point where he thinks it's totally fine to shortchange his partner's ability to learn and grow by hiding and masking.  Yes, SOME of the jazz dance being done on a table (or chair) would be cool, but I swear, she took, maybe, what, six dance steps down on her feet without her ass or back on that table?  That's on Derek.  And it's on the judges that they fawned all over it and, even when the out of sync issues was directly mentioned, there was only one of four judges who managed to shake her lips off Derek's ass long enough to drop a point off their score for such a glaring mistake.  When CAI is the rational one, the rest of them have a problem.  

 

So, yeah, any shade I'm throwing, wondering about whether Amy's freestyle is going to be her sitting on the judges' table while Derek does one of his Macy's dances, that's shade being thrown at Derek and the judges.  

 

Although, a moment of contempt for whoever did Amy's makeup for their last dance.  Whenever the camera was close up she looked like a rough truck stop waitress about 20 years older than she is.  

 

Side note, I REALLY hope we're not getting a guest judge for the finals...unless turnabout is fair play and we're going to get Val sitting in that seat after Julianne doing it twice.  

Somewhere out there is some footage of Amy asking Derek why she can't just DANCE already instead of sitting on a table or a stool :) Otherwise I have a hard time thinking a hard-core snowboarder would just quietly, meekly do stuff like that. Or maybe not; maybe her prosthetics really have been giving her problems (sores on her stumps or something?) and she just never said anything about it.

 

Being too mean would be very un-Charlie like. He set a good example. 

 

Charlie has to have one of the best attitudes around and clearly its served him well in life. It's strange to me that he didn't connect more with the audience since I would have pegged him as the strongest DWTS contestant going in. He's a likable guy, but I do think his problem with this show was that the audience never really connected and not just fans rallying around Meryl last week. 

 

They could have done some good "inspiring" stuff with Charlie, too. Surely he's had some tragedy in his life? (I know he lost a grandfather a year or two back.) Either that or his sense of fun and being positive would SURELY have connected with the evangelical audience, peeling away votes from Candace? I have to think the producers just didn't care and couldn't see outside their box of "this is what gets ratings, and this does not. Only put stuff on that increases the ratings."

 

Hey, I understand different priorities and people actually having lives (what's that like? Sounds fun!), but voting by phone literally takes me less than a minute, and the same with Facebook/ABC website voting. I don't power vote, but I'll get in on the fun since I'm a huge Meryl/Charlie fan and I like to think smaller count votes are just as important :)

I was stupid and didn't write down phone numbers during the show, so I tried to vote after the show Monday. Busy signals, and I was NOT gonna stay up late to keep trying!

Edited May 14, 2014 by radishcake

[Dots And Stripes]

From a parting interview with Charlie:

 

I thought the comment about being true to themselves in a reality tv show suggests that he understood that he was getting damned by his truncated packages and that he deliberately chose not to make up some reality-show narrative...  I think it's touching that he has that much faith in the voting public.

 

Charlie did likely stage things in order to fill up the pre-dance packages. He had his little talk with Meryl outside the rehearsal studio, a visit from his mother, and he learned to be arrogant from Maks. It's not like Charlie wouldn't have talked to his mother anyway, but he probably wouldn't have had that conversation sitting in the studio if the producers had not requested it.That's just my guess. While I think Charlie was true to himself, he did play the reality game too.

 

I also don't think negative drama is necessary to do well on this show. I think football players tend to excel when they have affable personalities and some have been low drama.

[radishcake]

@LilJen I fixed that for you! :)

[smiley13]

 

I also like voting because I feel it validates my complaints i.e. I am a participant, so I can rant.

Me too, I have faithfully voted every year that I have watched.  I do tend to send all of my votes to one person and this year it has been Candace every week.

 

I am glad that Charlie did not let himself get dragged into the show's manufactured drama.  He was pleasant and fun to watch all season.

[Uke]

I understand that the stars are learning specific choreography moreso than actually learning to dance. But they learn the choreography by learning basic dance techniques and basic dance movement.

 

Does anyone think Amy has learned basic dance techniques and/or basic dance movement?

[truthaboutluv]

I do. Her Cha Cha was a Cha Cha with Cha Cha steps, her Jive was a Jive with Jive content, same with her AT (yes, even if she spent a few seconds on a stool), same with her Rumba where she actually had amazing hip movement and even her Waltz. Yes she couldn't get the basic heel/toe movement but her frame was actually very good. And her salsa with Mark also had a lot of salsa content. And her Quickstep was all QS where she also had an amazing frame throughout.

I get not thinking Amy is as good a dancer as Meryl for example (goes without saying really) and not wanting her to win because she's not the best dancer. But it's a bit of revisionist history in my opinion, just because a stool and table was included in two of her last few dances to suggest she hasn't danced at all throughout the competition and never learned the dances.

[Hybiscus]

Charlie did likely stage things in order to fill up the pre-dance packages. He had his little talk with Meryl outside the rehearsal studio, a visit from his mother, and he learned to be arrogant from Maks. It's not like Charlie wouldn't have talked to his mother anyway, but he probably wouldn't have had that conversation sitting in the studio if the producers had not requested it.That's just my guess. While I think Charlie was true to himself, he did play the reality game too.

 

I don't doubt Charlie's talks with Meryl and his mom were staged.  I'm sure he talked to Meryl every day, and his mom was in LA for at least some of the shows.  The problem wasn't so much that he did or didn't "play the game," for whatever reason, he just didn't get the attention other contestants got, either in the media or the pre-dance videos.  Would we have seen more chemistry with Sharna if they'd lengthened his videos to show their playful side?  Would that have endeared him more to the voters?  I don't know. 

[Bella]

 

Does anyone think Amy has learned basic dance techniques and/or basic dance movement?

 

Here is what I'm thinking about Amy, and it's okay if no one agrees because you all care about the show more than I do.

 

As fate would have it, I had a project-free gap during the Olympics (I'm self-employed). So I binge-watched. I did not watch the Para-Olympics, because by then I was working again. But I ended up watching an awful lot of snowboarding during the regular Olympics.

 

I just went over to YouTube and watched Amy and some of her competitors in snowboard cross. As a group compared to the regular Olympians, they keep a higher center of gravity, they're somewhat slower, and they bend their knees less. However, their range of motion going down the slopes is pretty impressive and clearly reflects athleticism and flexibility. 

 

Now, my DH has always maintained that football players do well on this show because they train to have side-to-side motion in addition to forward and back motion, and they train to be quick. I saw all of that in Amy and the other women ParaOlympic snowboarders. So, thinking of Amy as an athlete first, I see where she has the fundamentals she'd need for dance, just like the football players and other athletes who've come on this show.

[CED9]

Somewhere out there is some footage of Amy asking Derek why she can't just DANCE already instead of sitting on a table or a stool :) Otherwise I have a hard time thinking a hard-core snowboarder would just quietly, meekly do stuff like that. Or maybe not; maybe her prosthetics really have been giving her problems (sores on her stumps or something?) and she just never said anything about it.

She talked in a few interviews this whole season about balance while looking graceful being the most challenging thing for her.

As I think I've said before, because she's an athlete, doubled with being a double amputee that's so reliant on her core, I think she's making it look easier than it probably actually is. Particularly with that Quickstep. I admit I watched it the first time through my fingers in fear because blades aren't supposed to do what she did in them.

Does anyone think Amy has learned basic dance techniques and/or basic dance movement?

I think her arms are an indication that she is learning the basics. The legs are in a different class all of their own.

Edited May 14, 2014 by CED9

[Woodrose]

Charlie did likely stage things in order to fill up the pre-dance packages. He had his little talk with Meryl outside the rehearsal studio, a visit from his mother, and he learned to be arrogant from Maks. It's not like Charlie wouldn't have talked to his mother anyway, but he probably wouldn't have had that conversation sitting in the studio if the producers had not requested it.That's just my guess. While I think Charlie was true to himself, he did play the reality game too.

 

For sure, these little talks were clearly staged. But, they were all conversations he was perfectly willing to have, even if they'd not been prompted by the producers. He was happy to ask Meryl and Maks for advice or sit down for a pep talk from his Mom or Scott.

 

But, Charlie did not play up a rivalry with Meryl.  Charlie did not pretend to be gaga over Sharna.  Who knows what else the producers suggested they stage for him and he declined.

 

That's how I interpret being true to oneself within a reality show format.

[JustAlison]

 

Does anyone think Amy has learned basic dance techniques and/or basic dance movement?

Yes. I suspect many people think Amy has not only learned basic dance, but moved well past that. And she did that without coming in with a foundation in dance, or experience learning choreography.

 

I like the look of Amy, too. She reminds me a bit of Grace Kelly, and sometimes, of Farrah Fawcett.

[smiley13]

 

She talked in a few interviews this whole season about balance while looking graceful being the most challenging thing for her.

I wonder if balance would not have been an :"issue" if she had worn the Pistorius blades all season?  They must balance well since he raced in them.

[CED9]

I wonder if balance would not have been an :"issue" if she had worn the Pistorius blades all season? They must balance well since he raced in them.

Of course he raced in them. That's their purpose. To roll off the toes and propel you forward so you can run. Keyword being forward. Amy? Had to stay back in them. That? Provides a HUGE balance issue.

I feel as though you are just being condescending towards her in your remark though.

[gigi1701]

 

Now, my DH has always maintained that football players do well on this show because they train to have side-to-side motion in addition to forward and back motion, and they train to be quick. I saw all of that in Amy and the other women ParaOlympic snowboarders. So, thinking of Amy as an athlete first, I see where she has the fundamentals she'd need for dance, just like the football players and other athletes who've come on this show.

I agree with you. She is doing amazing things, but when the judges seem to let her pass, change the rules or over praise her it works against her. Someone like Billy Dee Williams could actually be more handicapped regarding dance. 

 

A Tai Chi teacher of mine used to teach Tai Chi to people in wheel chairs. Dancing with the top of the body is still dancing, dance is an art that incorporates the body, the mind and the spirit. Part of it is making people feel something, an experience beyond the physical. I don't have problems with Amy or any other dancer not using their feet all of the time. My issue with Amy is Derek, if you can't do a lift don't do one, if the feet she uses don't work (like the swimming ones), don't use them, she was fantastic on the blades. No one would accuse the judges of being unfair if they did or didn't say her blades weren't pointed. Obsessed with pointed feet is exclusively a ballet issue. So many other forms of dance and dance-like movement the foot is used very differently. I really dis-like the judges, mostly Carrie Ann changing the rules every moment, it looks stupid and it looks like favoritism.

[bearcatfan]

I loved Amy's quickstep. I liked her dance with Mark. I wanted to see her move across the floor because I think she can do it. Most dances, she stayed in one spot except for the 2 I really enjoyed. She was given dances that allowed Derek to support her when I think she could have risen to the challenge of moving across the floor. On the other hand they threw every Latin dance at Charlie knowing he would struggle more with them. Fwiw, the AfterBuzz gang thought he deserved higher scores for the samba. They thought he did well with it.

 

I don't know what part Amy had in some of the decisions made but I feel like I was being manipulated with a lot of her packages. The call from Oprah was the final straw. I haven't watched since Apolo's season so I have no experience with Derek. I don't know if the manipulation is because of him being the chosen one like some suggest or because someone thinks Amy winning would be a good story. I don't like being manipulated even if it's for someone as generally pleasant as Amy.

 

Meryl and Maks, on the other hand, I find more playful than anything. She's used to teasing from Charlie (and I've heard she gives it back as well) so her reactions to him for the most part feel genuine to me. I also suspect that Maks has an enormous amount of respect for that gold medal. I'm judging this based on his reaction to Charlie in an interview where he said "you have an Olympic Gold Medal, don't ever be nervous about anything again." Russians take their Olympic sports seriously and figure skating is respected in a way that is not seen in the US. I think this comes into play in his interactions with her. As for his throwing the mic pack, I don't think she was afraid of him, I think she was more startled.

 

I forgot to say that I read CA's blog and she mentioned that the eliminated contestants would be doing a dance on the final. I don't know if it's together or what so we will see some of them again. After hearing Sharna talk about her plans for the freestyle, I really wish we could see it. I suppose it's too much to hope that they'll let them do it anyway.

Edited May 15, 2014 by bearcatfan

[smiley13]

 

I really dis-like the judges, mostly Carrie Ann changing the rules every moment, it looks stupid and it looks like favoritism.

The rules do seem to change on a dime with this group of judges, especially with CA ,Queen of the Lift Patrol.  

 

And I do think it reeks of favoritism when they do it.  You used to could count on Len to stay the same, but even he was all over the place this season.

[TeeM]

 In my opinion, that meant giving  In my opinion, it's Amy that's being favored and she lucked out by having Derek as her choreographer.  The judges already expect creative things from him so he can use that to his advantage to pull Amy through.  I wouldn't have minded the table being used in the jazz dance (much like I didn't mind Amber's sit-down dance last season) but coming on the heels of her Argentine tango that incorporated a stool -- I'm sorry but you don't *sit down* in the middle of a tango -- plus the majority of her other dances where it seemed the main elements consisted of Derek picking her up and twirling her, it was too much for me to handle.  I liked her jive earlier in the season and I was so impressed with her quickstep because there was so much more dance content in those dances.  Even Mark gave her more to do in their salsa.  She was unsteady but at least I got the sense that she was really putting herself out there and trying hard.  I really think Derek failed her (and the viewing audience frankly) by not pushing her to her limits with each dance.  It's positively shameful that it took until the semi-finals for her to actually travel the floor.

 

 

 

 

I think this is the crux of it for me. I DO think Amy is inspiring, 100%. I can't even imagine the determination it took for her to get where she is. And I also think that some of her dances have been inspiring and amazing this season, most notably this week's Quickstep. Her contemporary was also stunning. And that is what I wanted to see more of and I think we COULD have seen more of, but that is not the choreography Derek gave her.

 

I've seen lots of people mention Billy Dee as an example of someone who also had challenges but didn't get the same treatment from the judges.  For contestants with challenges, I actually think a better comparison is Valerie Harper from last season who for me personally was one of the most inspiring contestants I've ever seen on this show. Was she a good dancer? Not really and please don't misunderstand that I am trying to put Amy in the same talent category as Valerie, I am not. Amy has far more natural rhythm, much better lines and far more musicality. She is a better dancer than Valerie by far. But Valerie also had multiple challenges, particularly her knee giving out on her those last 2 weeks. But Tristan still made her dance. It wasn't quick and it wasn't always smooth or polished but she did a proper Viennese Waltz that moved across the whole floor and it was beautiful. He could have thrown in some lifts that would have been lovely and then told Carrie Ann when she mentioned it that he did it because of her bum knee but he didn't. He could have amped up the volume on the fog machine to cover her mistakes but he didn't. He could have pulled in a park bench, or a swing or any number of things to sit on to cut down on the time that Valerie had to be on her feet but he didn't do that either. They got out on the floor and they waltzed and I cried from how beautiful it was even in its imperfection. At 72 years old with brain cancer and a bum knee that she stumbled on all week in practice, she went out there and waltzed. And she got three 6s which was totally appropriate for what she did. She also got all my votes that week even though I knew she should be the one going home. 

 

Even though what Amy is able to do is just as inspiring as what Valerie did or even more inspiring in some ways, I haven't felt the sort of emotional connection to her dances that I felt with Valerie (with the exception of the contemporary and the quickstep). And I think part of that is because I feel like I am being cheated out of seeing what she is truly capable of because Derek keeps her in a tiny box on the floor. He even said in their package this week that it was really the first time they were traveling across the floor...in week 9! I understand what Derek is doing and why he is doing it. He is the absolute best at creating memorable dances that wow people. Unfortunately, I think he often does this by creatively distracting us from his partner's limitations and putting the focus somewhere else - on him, on a stool, on a table, on the fog. And again, I get it, I do and it works a lot of the time but it frustrates me because I want to see the contestants dance. I like seeing their limitations and how they get past them (or don't) which is part of the reason that I do usually enjoy watching Candace week to week. And why I enjoyed Jack Osborne over Corbin last season. For me, that is a huge part of the show and a big reason why I am frustrated with Amy's dances this season. 

 

Also, I just realized this should maybe be in the Amy thread and not here, sorry mods. 

[gigi1701]

Beautiful post TeeM, right on, bravo!

[CED9]

Taking my response to the Amy thread, TeeM.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Something I thought for suuuuure we would see often is the two moms together rooting for Meryl and Charlie.  I don't recall a single instance.  I would have bet everything I own that at lest once, we would have had a chat with those two together in some sort of taped package.  I never saw it.  Then, Tom never once got them together for a live interview?  If I lived on a knoll, I would see this as moe Conrad shenanigans in holding Charlie back.  Anything that would have sharply evoked Sochi memories in viewers would have been helpful.    Conrad always knows who the real B2 are.

 

As for this "Olympians in peril" mess...  My admiration for anyone who overcomes the way any of the paralympians does knows few bounds.  They are better than ol' Lonesome.  OK?

 

However, a para-olympian is not an olympian.  I don't care what the USOC says.  Words are words and they have specific meaning.  The prefix "para" is a modifier.  If it were not needed, it would not be used.  Since it is, the word "olympian" is altered by the prefix, the meaning is different.  Simple.

 

If this were an actual open dancing competition, Amy would have been gone by now.  DWTS is what it is, so she is in the finals.  Good for her.  But, there is simply zero doubt whatsoever that Charlie can literally run rings around her in dance.  It wouldn't even be fair.  

 

I am full on board with the posters who have lamented the castration of the jidges.  They are so much window dressing anymore.  Such a shame and so unnecessary.  Len and Bruno really do know the dance.   I'll be quite surprised to see Len next season.

 

I have read that the median age watching this show is 62.  No matter how many king's horses Conrad brings to the fight, there is no fixing his age problem.  So, why not produce a show geared more to traditional dance?    Why keep ruining standard dance with horrendous modern claptrap passing for music?  They won't lose any audience and they would make the show something more than farce, in which the pros would most especially take pride?   The interferences this year were the worst yet and I have absolutely sensed a cynical indifference from all concerned.  I felt it most last week when Charlie got his 40, and then again when Charlie killed his Foxtrot this week and got a perfect score.  They all knew it was meaningless to the competition.  

[fembotz]

 

Something I thought for suuuuure we would see often is the two moms together rooting for Meryl and Charlie.  I don't recall a single instance.

 

I read in an interview with them that they are assigned seating and never assigned to sit together although they would like to. They said something about how they can try to make us enemies but they'll fail! I'll have to dig up the interview later and edit the right quote in.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I read in an interview with them that they are assigned seating and never assigned to sit together although they would like to. They said something about how they can try to make us enemies but they'll fail! I'll have to dig up the interview later and edit the right quote in.

Precisely my point.  Conrad made a conscious decision each week about this.  The jerk.

 

In no way was anything I wrote meant to be critical of the ladies.   

Edited May 15, 2014 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Bitsy]

Then, Tom never once got them together for a live interview?  If I lived on a knoll, I would see this as moe Conrad shenanigans in holding Charlie back.  Anything that would have sharply evoked Sochi memories in viewers would have been helpful.

Erin interviewed Charlie after Meryl's first dance.

 

I actually thought that mostly presenting Meryl & Charlie as two separate entities was much fairer to both of them.  Like that time when Charlie was talking about how tired he was from touring in SOI, and they went to great lengths to leave out and obscure the fact that Meryl was also touring with him and was just as tired.  I think they felt Meryl shouldn't be able to piggyback onto Charlie's sympathy story when she had her own story going on.

 

After Meryl turned out to be the popular, perfect-scorer, they did have her guest star in Charlie's rehearsal package as a sage advice-giver, which I thought was a gift to Charlie and very risky for Meryl in terms of how it could have made her look.

[Barbara Manatee]

How was that a gift for Charlie? That whole "Charlie is desperate for a 10 but he's just not good enough" storyline is what killed his chances, in my opinion.

[galax-arena]

I may whine or celebrate but it's all on a surface level.

This. I get loud and rambunctious and hyperbolic with my comments because, I don't know, for me that's part of the fun. But once the show is over for the season, so am I. Other people continue to post in the forums during the off season, but I usually don't. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

I used to vote, back when I first started watching the show and before I realized what a farce the competition really was. Now I just don't care enough. At this point, DWTS is a distraction for me, something to keep me occupied on Monday nights. And honestly, I think the only reason I even continue to tune in is because a fellow DWTS viewer and I always IM each other during the live show, and that's fun. On the occasions where she can't IM for whatever reason, I don't even bother tuning in for that night's ep. Or if I have to miss it because I'm away, I don't care enough to watch the episode later on DVR. Oh, DWTS, how far you've fallen... 

[Bitsy]

How was that a gift for Charlie? That whole "Charlie is desperate for a 10 but he's just not good enough" storyline is what killed his chances, in my opinion.

I think it backfired, but the intent was to get some of Meryl's popularity to transfer over to him. 

[tarotx]

I think it backfired, but the intent was to get some of Meryl's popularity to transfer over to him. 

TPTB didn't know what to do with Charlie. I feel most of his packages were pick ups because they didn't get what they felt made good TV. Which were a waste of time and mostly backfired because we didn't get to know Charlie&Sharna beyond what they put out on the dance floor. Sharna talks about how much she learned from Charlie's positivity and outlook on life. We didn't get any or much of that on the show. How much have we got to know Sharna at all this season? She's more a mystery than Charlie. Imo.

 

And for all the shomances and Amy crying Drama, it was about what was actually happening in rehearsals. And even Candace and Mark have he's helping her with her confidence and He is really relaxed this season with her. It's about them as a dance couple.  Most of the couples have been shown dancing in rehearsals. The ups and downs of rehearsing together. 

[Bitsy]

How much have we got to know Sharna at all this season? She's more a mystery than Charlie. Imo.

Seriously.  She gives off such a "mature" vibe - mature in terms of outlook, but also in terms of coming across as older than she is - and she's got a neck tattoo!  I'd love to know more about her.

[Glaadrial]

Seriously.  She gives off such a "mature" vibe - mature in terms of outlook, but also in terms of coming across as older than she is - and she's got a neck tattoo!  I'd love to know more about her.

I learned the most about Sharna from her interaction with Cody.

[fembotz]

 

Sharna talks about how much she learned from Charlie's positivity and outlook on life. We didn't get any or much of that on the show. How much have we got to know Sharna at all this season? She's more a mystery than Charlie. Imo.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. I remember reading an interview with Sharna where she talks about how she fast forwards through a taped version of the show every week and she just watches the dances and her packages to see how she and Charlie are presented. This was in response to someone asking if she watches the packages and knew how much shorter theirs were.

 

And therein lies the problem. She needs to package herself and Charlie and their journey and be a part of that process, she needs to give the producers something to focus on, she needs to help create the narrative in her little sit down interviews. She needs to study the successful packaging of other contestants and partnerships and try to start doing that herself. (To be clear, I am NOT talking about showmances and manufactured drama, I am talking about just finding more interesting things and angles to their week together and thinking about this like a story she is telling because that's what it is once the editors get ahold of their week and package it into a minute and thirty seconds (or forty seconds, sometimes, in Charlie's case.) She can't control how they are packaged but she can focus the producers on certain aspects of their week or their partnership, she can try and thread a narrative that is more than just "ice skating is different" and "we're working on his hip movement." 

 

And yeah, I actually do remember her rehearsals with Cody more than most of her rehearsals with Charlie, probably because she had that little existential crisis about feeling old when she found out he was born in 1997 and was telling him to pull his pants up and being firm with him and stuff. 

[JustAlison]

I think Charlie's main problem was simple chemistry. As far as I could tell, he and Sharna had none. I found her routines for him boring, and they seemed kind of repetitive, even though they had different dances every week. I watched his dance, then struggled to remember what he had just done. For me, neither Charlie nor Sharna 'sparkle' on their own, lacking that elusive star quality that people like Maks and Meryl have. I don't know why that is,  as I find Charlie far more likable than Meryl, but I find Meryl more riveting to watch. It didn't help that we had the endless 'will they or won't they' with Maks and Meryl, and Charlie and Sharna never went there. I don't remember a single dance with Charlie and Sharna wherein they almost kiss and don't. Conversely, it seems that every dance Maks and Meryl did has a lip brushing pause at some point.

[Glaadrial]

And therein lies the problem. She needs to package herself and Charlie and their journey and be a part of that process, she needs to give the producers something to focus on, she needs to help create the narrative in her little sit down interviews. She needs to study the successful packaging of other contestants and partnerships and try to start doing that herself. (To be clear, I am NOT talking about showmances and manufactured drama, I am talking about just finding more interesting things and angles to their week together and thinking about this like a story she is telling because that's what it is once the editors get ahold of their week and package it into a minute and thirty seconds (or forty seconds, sometimes, in Charlie's case.) She can't control how they are packaged but she can focus the producers on certain aspects of their week or their partnership, she can try and thread a narrative that is more than just "ice skating is different" and "we're working on his hip movement." 

 

And yeah, I actually do remember her rehearsals with Cody more than most of her rehearsals with Charlie, probably because she had that little existential crisis about feeling old when she found out he was born in 1997 and was telling him to pull his pants up and being firm with him and stuff. 

This is an excellent point. What I remember most of her package with Cody was the drill sergeant/taskmaster approach she took to his training--no poopypants and the like. Also her approach to teaching him proper technique was very effective. This may have come from them both being Aussie's, so she knew how to frame her expectations in a way that was familiar to him. It worked really well.

 

I agree that it was absolutely the right decision not to go the showmance route, the relationship they had and was highlighted was perfect for the two of them. I think with a bit more experience Sharna should be able to find what resonates well for her as a pro. I think the package with Cody is a good starting point for her to begin shaping her image going forward.

 

Part of the problem is that they were given Contemporary on week 1. Had they given him a cha-cha-cha, it would have given them the opportunity to spend a lot of quality time on Latin movement. Latin movement was always going to be a struggle for him not only physically because of the way he has trained his body for skating on the ice, but also psychologically because the movement is perceived as effeminate in this country and, let's be frank, he's been facing that particular issue for as long as he's been a Figure Skater.

 

Had he been given any of the Latin dances in the first round, Sharna could have built a narrative around his struggle with the movement. Since the movement is connected to the movement of the foot, it might have been a good way to focus on the challenge of transitioning from skates to dance shoes. Seeing his progress through the various Latin dances over the weeks culminating in the Samba (Which according to the pros on Afterbuzz incorporates three different kinds of movement within one style of dance), would have made for some really interesting rehearsal packages, especially if Sharna brought out the drill sergeant/taskmaster that she used while working with Cody.

 

It's unfortunate that Peta had Charlie for Rumba. I read that she wrote on/deleted from her blog that working with Charlie was so easy because she didn't have to teach him anything, he already knew what he was doing. I don't fault the actual choreography of what she produced with Charlie so much as I fault her for not taking the opportunity to teach him proper Rumba technique. Peta's Rumba with James (which I wasn't overly impressed by) was not called out for being not a Rumba so I'm assuming she knows how to teach the man's part. I would have been interested in seeing Charlie progress on this journey to master Latin movement with another teacher. Sharna brought in Maks to help with bring the Latin character to a Tango, which I think was good, but then they ignored what Maks had to offer. I think a through-line would have been very helpful in getting him to the finals.

[sidwich]

 

 

But, Charlie did not play up a rivalry with Meryl.  Charlie did not pretend to be gaga over Sharna.  Who knows what else the producers suggested they stage for him and he declined.

That's how I interpret being true to oneself within a reality show format.

 

That's what I got out of it as well.  I think that it was pretty clear that Charlie was not okay with manufacturing drama for the B roll.  I really think he is pretty much what he presents himself as, a happy guy with a great family in a long-term, stable relationship, and he wasn't going to try to be anyone else for the cameras.

 

I don't think he he was willing to try to pretend that he was overcoming some great life issue, and based on how many times in the early weeks he mentioned his great girlfriend of SIX YEARS with whom HE WAS BUYING A HOUSE, I don't think he was going to do the showmance thing either.

 

 

[TeeM]

That's what I got out of it as well.  I think that it was pretty clear that Charlie was not okay with manufacturing drama for the B roll.  I really think he is pretty much what he presents himself as, a happy guy with a great family in a long-term, stable relationship, and he wasn't going to try to be anyone else for the cameras.

 

I don't think he he was willing to try to pretend that he was overcoming some great life issue, and based on how many times in the early weeks he mentioned his great girlfriend of SIX YEARS with whom HE WAS BUYING A HOUSE, I don't think he was going to do the showmance thing either.

Maybe he should have gone the anti-showmance route and stopped mid-dance once night to propose to the girlfriend. That certainly would have had people talking. Obviously, I am kidding and don't think he should have done that at all, but with the totally kooky way this season has shaken out, the judges probably would have given him 10s for that, even if it meant a full stop mid-dance. Poor Charlie. 

[JustAlison]

 

I wonder if balance would not have been an :"issue" if she had worn the Pistorius blades all season?  They must balance well since he raced in them.

 

I think throwing shade on Amy by categorizing her prosthetics in this way is not cool, or funny. It's just insensitive, and adds nothing to the conversation.  

Edited May 16, 2014 by JustAlison

[radishcake]

So to clear up again: Amy Purdy - has prosthetics, IS an Olympian, and has issues not "issues". Acting like you think anything related to her prosthetics is "made up" or "silly" or "eyeroll" is not only annoying, it violates our number one rule - Don't be a Dick.

That's your friendly warning for the day.

[Hybiscus]

There's an interesting post on another board that talks about not really knowing who Amy is, that her dances have been more about Derek and his "glorious" choreography.  The poster wished Amy had been paired with someone other than Derek, since there is so much talk of him and how he's been able to "manage" Amy.  I hadn't really figured out why I hadn't warmed up to Amy, but this made perfect since.  Especially since I just watch the MSOD last night and wondered why Derek's dances always feature Derek.

 

For sure, these little talks were clearly staged. But, they were all conversations he was perfectly willing to have, even if they'd not been prompted by the producers. He was happy to ask Meryl and Maks for advice or sit down for a pep talk from his Mom or Scott.

 

 

I had to laugh because Scott Hamilton came through the same gate into the same courtyard for his talk with Charlie that Charlies did with Meryl.  Yeah, that's not staged at all.  [/sarcasm]

 

I've posted elsewhere (other forums, my blog) about what went wrong with Charlie and Sharna.  As with other SNAFUs, in probably wasn't just one thing.  Low-balling his scores (I've written about this ad nauseum), lack of chemistry (I finally acknowledged it), Charlie's short-changed pre-dance packages which might have given us a glimpse Charlie/Sharna chemistry), the emphasis on his quest for perfect 10s instead of his delightful personality, humor, humility, and positivity, Sharna not knowing how to play the game.  I doubt she had any say over the packages, but she could have been better aware of how things were going and what she might not be doing right. Hopefully she's learned a HUGE lesson this season.

For me, neither Charlie nor Sharna 'sparkle' on their own, lacking that elusive star quality

 

I think Charlie has enormous "sparkle" himself, maybe not "star-quality" sparkle, but All American sparkle.  Sharna remains somewhat of an enigma.

Edited May 16, 2014 by goinggone

[Glaadrial]

I wonder if balance would not have been an issue if she had worn the Pistorius blades all season?  They must balance well since he raced in them.

I believe that it was pointed out either upthread or elsewhere that the running blades are only effective for forward movement. From that I surmised that using them for dances that require swiveling movements or actual turns would make them ineffective.

[truthaboutluv]

There's an interesting post on another board that talks about not really knowing who Amy is, that her dances have been more about Derek and his "glorious" choreography.  The poster wished Amy had been paired with someone other than Derek, since there is so much talk of him and how he's been able to "manage" Amy.  I hadn't really figured out why I hadn't warmed up to Amy, but this made perfect since.  Especially since I just watch the MSOD last night and wondered why Derek's dances always feature Derek.

 

 

I disagree. I feel like I know plenty about Amy. We know all about how she lost her legs, how she picked herself back up to get back into snowboarding, how she motivates herself and keeps going despite her disability, we even got background on her relationship which some viewers felt was unnecessary. Once again this show is all about the "story" and "journey" and that's hers. The double amputee who overcomes. Sure it's not all she is but neither is Candace just the Christian married mother of three but that's been her story. Getting past her inhibitions and nerves and pushing forward. 

 

IMO, most of the people who think Amy's time on the show has been all about Derek are the people who make everything about Derek. The ones who every week talk about how the entire show from the producers down to the sound guys is manipulated and catered for him, how he's the Golden Boy, how the entire universe is up his ass, etc. It's the same with Maks. Some have complained about Maks' shenanigans overshadowing what Meryl is doing on the show and part of that is that Maks is polarizing and yes, for the last number of seasons he's been on the show, his personality and some of his antics have overshadowed his celebrity. 

 

But back to Derek and Amy, I saw that comment and to support my point that the viewers are the ones guilty of making it all about Derek rather than him overshadowing Amy and her getting lost, take a look at the last few pages of the General Gabbery thread. It was two - three pages of "DWTS/ABC/the universe is all about Derek, he gets away with everything, none of his celebs dance, he's not actually choreographing the dance, the producers are kissing his ass, etc. etc." So when it feels like one does not know much about Amy it may be because time is spent on boards where the comments focus on her PRO rather than on her. 

Edited May 16, 2014 by truthaboutluv