S05.E06: Icarus

[jjj]

Morse really was those boys' worst nightmare -- not a green teacher, as they thought, but an actual hardcore disciplinarian who did not give a fart about whether they liked him and who had no interest in continuing as their teacher! 

Random thoughts:  as someone said above, why did the matron take off the shirt and put it on the ground?  Why not dump him with the shirt on?  And again, so creepy the the boys would (a) pick up the shirt, (b) take it back to school) and (c) save it to "scare" Morse.  Had they been holding on to it for days?  

I could not figure out why the headmaster was so intent on creating an alibi for himself with his daughter.  

Edited July 30, 2018 by jjj

[krankydoodle]

4 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

The nurse was played by Madeleine Worrall (Mrs. Seymour) who seemed terribly familiar but is mostly a stage actress .... 

I didn't realize who she was until I checked her IMDB credits, but she was in one of my favorite Midsomer Murder episodes (Destroying Angel).

There was a suggestion of a relationship between Mrs. Ivory and the red-headed teacher when they met up during dinner with the Morses, but I don't remember seeing any follow-up. Did I miss a scene, or was that just dropped?

While I'm relieved they didn't put Morse and Trewlove together romantically or even hint at any tension between them while playing husband and wife, their scenes at home looked so cozy and it was nice seeing Morse smile more than usual.

[SusanSunflower]

Worrall has a wonderful face and presence. I "totally" believed in her throughout, even as I realized how unlikely it all was, she was credible  .... good job!! 

Yes, I think the headmaster assumed his promiscuous daughter was guilty (enough of something) to desperately need an alibi.  The writers really to believe the world is filled with deeply-concerned-about-the-well-being of their daughters  (if not their sons) --- rather touching. 

No one has mentioned Win's near betrayal of Joan -- yikes.  Thursday didn't tell her and likely still hasn't told her everything about the loan ... as he waxes sage and forgiving about Joan's (secret to him) past .... I hope Endeavor is not forced to understand that Thursday falls a bit short of "best husband in the world".  

I don't particularly want Endeavor and Joan to have a relationship, but I'd like it both were left with "happy memories", no regrets and a clean slate.  

Yes, Morse and Trewlove:  Morse can like women without immediately being determined to shag them (sooner rather than later).  

Anyone else suspect his dislike of Fancy was built on Fancy so perfectly playing the part, with his impeccable suits and perfect shoes and hair cut.... a perfect undertaker of a policeman (much like Thursday) ... Morse's "excuse" to be different, even an iconoclast has been and is that he's "more clever" (he's less secure than he pretends) 

Edited July 31, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[jjj]

Another odd moment in this episode -- I found it very strange that Charlie made Thursday come to London to hear that his money was gone, and told him outdoors in the dark.  Why not take the train to Oxford and tell him in Oxford?  I thought it was going to be some kind of setup for an incident that would hurt Thursday, as I did not know if he would be back next season.  Now that I look back on it, there was no reason to drag him to London for a 2-minute discussion when it was the brother who was totally at fault.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by jjj

[Pickles]

How much did Joan's mother know about her relationship with the married guy and the pregnancy? I didn't think she knew about all of that. Well, at least not the pregnancy. 

[tootsie]

Just rewatched it on the small screen ( my tablet) and enjoyed it even more the second time, I think. Better on the rewatch:  Morse sleeping in the bathtub and the toilet drains gurgling behind him. The fact that it was Nero Junior, despite his crime lord father, who spoke up for the boy being flogged and made that brutish teacher stop.The lyrics of the song playing on the juke box as the police entered the room of dead bodies.  Trewlove saying "the boy I liked is dead." ( a message there) Joan and Fred's tea time. I don't usually have time (or desire) for a rewatch but glad I did for this one. Makes me 1) wonder what details I missed by not rewatching the other episodes and 2) appreciate the observations and comments in this forum from other viewers.

[jjj]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

How much did Joan's mother know about her relationship with the married guy and the pregnancy? I didn't think she knew about all of that. Well, at least not the pregnancy. 

I don't think she knew much at all about what happened with Joan last season.  Remember how completely broken she was?  No way was Thursday going to tell her anything that would upset her.

In the Charlie episode this series, I believe Fred Thursday said that he would have to check with Win before making a major loan.  I had the impression at the end that he had actually talked with her -- something she said at the end like, "well, that's that, then."  Now I think it just meant, "there they go," but at the time, I think we were meant to think (at least, *I* thought) she was saying, "well, kiss that money goodbye".  But I thought it was a few hundred or a thousand pounds, not the Thursdays *entire* life savings.  Weren't there pensions for public servants in Britain in the 1960s?  I thought the country was socialized enough that no one was expected to live off of their own savings in retirement -- otherwise, most of the country would be working until they dropped dead on the job.  

Poor Win, I wonder where they were in the ballroom dancing competition at this point?  It is November 11 when it ends, and the previous episode was in middle to late October (Olympics went almost to the end of the month).   

Edited July 31, 2018 by jjj

[BeckyThatcher]

Heartbreaking. This last episode had so much pain it was gut wrenching. 

Let’s have Morse ask if he’s ever been bullied. Let’s have him play house. Let’s have him utter the words that he’d give everything up for love. Have him don a gown and walk confidently, momentarily belonging within the academic halls. A poem at a eulogy.

I just can’t. Then there’s the additional- let’s ruin Friday’s memories of school days. Ruin Wyn’s trust in her faithful husband. Ruin her dreams of retirement, ballroom dancing, and her husband coming home safely at night.

Why not show a youthful copper buy an engagement ring, knowing his love is unrequited, knowing that on TV you never buy a ring without certain death or pain coming to you. Show Fancy sitting alone in a car, isolated, dark, using the transmitter.

Bright? Of course, watch him break at the death of a young officer, see his county station destroyed and emptied. Home raking leaves, leading to showing his only daughter in a photograph, as he sadly reveals her death and then nobley saying fairwell to Trewlove.

There’s more- the older ways of Nero, being destroyed by the younger, colder generation of drug dealers. Just like Omar and Barksdale’s codes being replaced by Marlo. Yet Nero’s own son, trying to find his own place in his world, a world that knows his father.

The sadest coroner in the world, moving our boy out first. Finding unmatchable bullets. 

Poppies. Of course.

It ends as always, the gifted music sadly soaring as screen goes black. The music alone, simmering through the episode, and then cascading over the credits.

How do they do this! All this and then comically have Trewlove say, “Call me Shirley.”

I love this show.

Edited July 31, 2018 by BeckyThatcher
Remberance Day

[jjj]

28 minutes ago, BeckyThatcher said:

Bright? Of course, watch him break at the death of a young officer, see his county station destroyed and emptied. Home raking leaves, leading to showing his only daughter in a photograph, as he sadly reveals her death and then nobley saying fairwell to Trewlove.

It sounds like you have seen the missing scene? When did this scene occur in the show -- before Trewlove's exit? 

[Dessert]

19 minutes ago, jjj said:

It sounds like you have seen the missing scene? When did this scene occur in the show -- before Trewlove's exit? 

As I recall, it happened after they told Trewlove about Fancy and after they find out The bullets that killed Fancy were from a gun not found at the scene. Morse goes to Bright’s house to discuss trying to find the killer. Bright dismisses the idea, but offers Morse a drink. That’s when Morse sees the the photograph of his daughter.

[jjj]

23 minutes ago, Dessert said:

As I recall, it happened after they told Trewlove about Fancy and after they find out The bullets that killed Fancy were from a gun not found at the scene. Morse goes to Bright’s house to discuss trying to find the killer. Bright dismisses the idea, but offers Morse a drink. That’s when Morse sees the the photograph of his daughter.

There was no Morse at Bright's house in the PBS version -- it was "bullets from another gun," then scenes at the school, then discovery of Ivory, then farewell to Trewlove.  

[Dessert]

 I think they cut the entire scene. There was also a brief scene with Miss Fraziel at the murder scene that was cut.

[jjj]

1 hour ago, Dessert said:

 I think they cut the entire scene. There was also a brief scene with Miss Fraziel at the murder scene that was cut.

Thank you!  I actually went back to look at that section to make sure I had not zoned out.  (I don't think I looked away at all during the episode!)  And it did seem that there was very little of Miss Fraziel in this episode, so a cut scene helps explain that.  I really appreciate seeing her, as her eyes are exactly the eyes of John Thaw, and it really is like having the older Morse hovering over the show.  

Did you get the DVDs or did you see this in Britain?  I was thinking of getting the DVDs, but have been burned by ordering the "full UK" version, and having that not be true.  I have gotten refunds when this happened (with "Lewis" episodes), but I can't keep ordering and returning PBS versions!  

Edited July 31, 2018 by jjj

[Dessert]

I have no patience, so I broke down and watched on YouTube. I know they cut things, so I don’t feel too guilty. It’s infuriating. That’s too bad about the DVDs. I was thinking about ordering them.

[Magnumfangirl]

The DVDs and blu-rays have all the cut scenes.  

[rhys]

13 hours ago, Pickles said:

How much did Joan's mother know about her relationship with the married guy and the pregnancy? I didn't think she knew about all of that. Well, at least not the pregnancy. 

Which episode was this?

[Pickles]

Joan was having an affair with the married guy and got pregnant. She ended up in the hospital, because she threw herself down the stairs (I think) and lost the baby. Morse was at the hospital and the doctor mistook him for her husband and told him about losing the baby.

[SusanSunflower]

No idea what Win knew or what Joan eventually might have told her.  It was a shock to realize she might in anger use Joan's secrets to hurt her husband.  She didn't. but she almost did.  

But it doesn't answer the question of what "secret" Win knew (and yes, I thought she was largely in the dark about sex, money, pregnancy, life style, etc.)

[BeckyThatcher]

11 hours ago, jjj said:

Did you get the DVDs or did you see this in Britain? 

I watch from the US, but purchase the series on Amazon Prime. Each new episode is released on Amazon the same hour it premiers each Sunday in the states, eastern standard time. This way you get the UK version and no commercials. Afterwards, since you now “own” each episode,  if you want to rewatch, it’s downloadable to your library or can be accessed through the cloud. I think it’s about $2-4 per episode.

I pay for the HD episode presumably to see every angst ridden facial movement possible, but the SD is cheaper and very clear. Acorn TV might offer this separately as well.

I wish I knew more about the editing process for the US Masterpiece version.

I can see that removing one or two entire scenes is easier, Bright at home, Miss Fraizel outside the crime scene. But both are so extremely important to the viewer. Bright for insight, Fraizel for John Thaw. If they must cut, shorten a few moments throughout, 8 seconds here and there of driving, a few seconds less of walking through graveyards, etc.

I love graveyard walking scenes, that’s like BBC bread and butter to me, but to think of loyal viewers being short changed of vital scenes, makes me want to know more of the cost of editing and how it’s done.

Edited to add: Going to the media portion of the forum regarding editing.

Edited July 31, 2018 by BeckyThatcher
I almost wrote “an entire country deprived of vital scenes” but that’s was rather dramatic and unnecessary.

[HollyG]

On 7/30/2018 at 8:35 AM, 2727 said:

I never disliked Fancy but didn't see the need for him. It finally dawned on me that he was the catalyst for Morse's character development, much like Jakes used to be. I hope his murder will be a continuing plot point.

The final scene of the four men in the empty station was extremely poignant. I'm very much looking forward to a new start for Morse and whoever remains next season.

The full ITV version was 90 minutes without commercials. I'm surprised PBS would cut the scene of Bright talking about his daughter. Gawd.

It's my understanding that PBS cuts most/all British dramas. I'm not sure why. But PBS where I live usually takes 90 min episodes and cuts them into two approx. 40 minute episodes. Grandchester episodes for instance run between 50 - 105 minutes, but usually run for about 45 min. on PBS.  They did the same with Lewis & Sherlock and probably all the others. For this reason, I look for them online through 'other' sources as soon as they've aired in the UK. 

[jjj]

2 hours ago, HollyG said:

It's my understanding that PBS cuts most/all British dramas. I'm not sure why. But PBS where I live usually takes 90 min episodes and cuts them into two approx. 40 minute episodes. Grandchester episodes for instance run between 50 - 105 minutes, but usually run for about 45 min. on PBS.  They did the same with Lewis & Sherlock and probably all the others. For this reason, I look for them online through 'other' sources as soon as they've aired in the UK. 

Same with Poldark (new version), which I stopped watching after season one because of the cuts.  

Thank you so much for the information about Prime versions and the DVDs.  I thought the U.S. Prime version was the same as PBS!  

2 hours ago, BeckyThatcher said:

I watch from the US, but purchase the series on Amazon Prime. Each new episode is released on Amazon the same hour it premiers each Sunday in the states, eastern standard time. This way you get the UK version and no commercials. Afterwards, since you now “own” each episode,  if you want to rewatch, it’s downloadable to your library or can be accessed through the cloud. I think it’s about $2-4 per episode.

I pay for the HD episode presumably to see every angst ridden facial movement possible, but the SD is cheaper and very clear. Acorn TV might offer this separately as well.

I wish I knew more about the editing process for the US Masterpiece version.

I can see that removing one or two entire scenes is easier, Bright at home, Miss Fraizel outside the crime scene. But both are so extremely important to the viewer. Bright for insight, Fraizel for John Thaw. If they must cut, shorten a few moments throughout, 8 seconds here and there of driving, a few seconds less of walking through graveyards, etc.

I love graveyard walking scenes, that’s like BBC bread and butter to me, but to think of loyal viewers being short changed of vital scenes, makes me want to know more of the cost of editing and how it’s done.

 

5 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

The DVDs and blu-rays have all the cut scenes.  

[Dessert]

51 minutes ago, jjj said:

Thank you so much for the information about Prime versions and the DVDs.  I thought the U.S. Prime version was the same as PBS!  

 

The Prime version I have is the same as PBS, cuts and all!

[jjj]

1 hour ago, Dessert said:

The Prime version I have is the same as PBS, cuts and all!

a-HA!  That is what they have done in the past.  I think I will order the DVDs and hope for the best.  If I get them to promise in advance that they are the U.K. version, I can return them if they are NOT!   I really want to see Bright raking the leaves.

ETA:  The Amazon chat person said that the DVD version on sale in U.S. format is the PBS version.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by jjj

[jjj]

8 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

The DVDs and blu-rays have all the cut scenes.  

Did you buy your DVDs in the U.S. or U.K.?  The U.K. format is the longer version, but the U.S. format is the shorter version, according to Amazon.    The U.K. DVDs will not play in a U.S. machine.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by jjj

[Magnumfangirl]

44 minutes ago, jjj said:

Did you buy your DVDs in the U.S. or U.K.?  The U.K. format is the longer version, but the U.S. format is the shorter version, according to Amazon.    The U.K. DVDs will not play in a U.S. machine.  

 

I bought the region 1 Blu-ray from Amazon when they were released on July 10th.  The scene at Bright's house and the one with Dorothea is in the episode and each of the six episodes on the blu-rays run about 92-94 minutes.  On my PBS station they run about 85 minutes.  This is the one I bought https://www.amazon.com/Masterpiece-Mystery-Endeavour-Season-Blu-ray/dp/B07CXH4YSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1533077420&sr=8-2&keywords=endeavour+season+5

Edited July 31, 2018 by Magnumfangirl

[BeckyThatcher]

1 hour ago, jjj said:

I really want to see Bright raking the leaves.

Not only will you see him raking leaves, but how to make a perfect gin and lime drink :) 

But, you don’t have to wait. When you look at the Amazon Prime Video section, make sure it says UK version. It will say PBS, but it is the ITV UK version. Promise! This is for series 5.

You have to scroll to the fine print and it is in the summary portion, last sentence.

If only Bright could enjoy his gin. He shares to Morse that it is his daily time for his gin drink. I love that Bright has a daily scheduled drink.

[attica]

According to Rebecca Eaton's memoir, all of the edits made on PBS shows are made by the individual showrunners, not by PBS themselves. Yes, PBS gives them the time parameters, but what gets cut is decided by the shows.

[jjj]

53 minutes ago, BeckyThatcher said:

Not only will you see him raking leaves, but how to make a perfect gin and lime drink :) 

But, you don’t have to wait. When you look at the Amazon Prime Video section, make sure it says UK version. It will say PBS, but it is the ITV UK version. Promise! This is for series 5.

If only Bright could enjoy his gin. He shares to Morse that it is his daily time for his gin drink. I love that Bright has a daily scheduled drink.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!  PURCHASED AND WATCHED!  I can't believe they cut that scene; it was incredibly moving.  Bright's heart was breaking so many ways:  for Fancy, for not being able to do anything about it, for losing the station, and for his little daughter.  And the emerald phone was spectacular.  His daughter's name is the word for "sweet", so when he just said the words "Dulci.  Sweet. Tropics." -- it was like each word was a tragic short story.  (I assume "tropics" means she contracted malaria or something like it.)

I should have guessed that the one time Amazon told me that this was not the U.K. version, it would be the U.K. version.  I think the poor harangued employees on the chat line are provided with very little useful information, and this one guessed that "U.S. format" (for the DVDs) meant "U.S. version".  

[Dessert]

It’s a wonderful scene! It’s also important because of what it says about Bright’s feelings for Trewlove. Unfortunately, some people had decided that his feelings for her were creepily sexual (as if there is no other reason for caring about a woman). I think this scene clears that up.

I still blame PBS for the cuts. They could let the shows run over 5 minutes. Commercial and non-commercial stations do that all the time. 

[SusanSunflower]

yes, in the age of virulent #metoo, to cut the context of Bright's affections for Trewlove is unconscionable ...   sad, even tragic ... as if everyone were somehow on a par with the worst of us.  

I stopped watching the major-networks' true-crime programs when I began to feel complicit in the violence-towards-women as stellar programming meme ...  yes, it seemed -- in the end -- it was always the husband who "deviously" murdered the wife to avoid having to "lose money" or stature in a likely, even pending, divorce ....  almost a how-to ... with hints about what to do to avoid getting caught .... like the featured hubby. 

OH, 10, 20, 30 points to the writers for avoiding writing Trewlove as Damsel in Distress and giving the actress a solid role to bank on in her resume .... I never expect beautiful women actors to be treated with dignity and respect (as actors)  -- my bad., 

Edited August 1, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[magdalene]

I don't know how people got the idea that Bright had a sexual thing for her, it came across as fatherly affection to me before I ever read here that PBS had cut another important scene. While I didn't know about the death of his daughter I just assumed that Bright being a decent and kind of old-fashioned - in a good way - person would feel protective of this young woman police officer under his command.   If PBS feels they have  to cut content for time I wish they would do a better job at editing the shows. It is really annoying that we have to miss so much.

Edited August 1, 2018 by magdalene

[12catcrazy]

I never thought that Bright felt anything sexual towards Trewlove.  I always got the feeling that he was fatherly and protective of her.  Kind of sad that as a society we see so many interactions between an older man and a young woman as sexual and/or predatory.   I'm sad to miss seeing the scene that was cut.   

Anybody want to place bets that we haven't seen the last of those 2 Bully Boy cops we saw a few episodes ago?  I wouldn't even doubt if they had something to do with Fancy's death - either directly (killing him themselves) or indirectly (by alerting the gangsters that he was watching them).   I'm going guess that they are corrupt and in on the drug smuggling operation and also set the other cops (in the truck crash) up to be murdered.  And if it isn't the cops we originally saw, I still bet next season's story line is going to involve some sort of police corruption and being in on the drug trade.  

[attica]

Just now, 12catcrazy said:

Kind of sad that as a society we see so many interactions between an older man and a young woman as sexual and/or predatory. 

Even more sad that so many interactions between male bosses and female subordinates of any ages ARE sexual/predatory. I've been in the workforce --in different industries --  many decades now, and I can count dozens and dozens of such predatory incidents just among my female coworkers and myself.  Look, I'm glad Bright is written as virtuous! I am not sorry to be suspicious, though.

[BeckyThatcher]

14 hours ago, jjj said:

Bright's heart was breaking so many ways:  for Fancy, for not being able to do anything about it, for losing the station, and for his little daughter.  And the emerald phone was spectacular.  His daughter's name is the word for "sweet", so when he just said the words "Dulci.  Sweet. Tropics." -- it was like each word was a tragic short story.  (I assume "tropics" means she contracted malaria or something like it.

Such a moving scene and love how you pair it down to three words- each a short story.

And- Hooray! You found the full episode!

I don’t remember who it was, perhaps one of the two “bully coppers” insinuated to Bright that they could report him for advancing Trewlove due to his affection. So the implication was cast out as a question - and answered in this very scene.

I do wonder how much Bright knows or suspects corruption within the force. His reaction to the unmatched bullets made me wonder if he has suspicions.

[fauntleroy]

I was expecting something more clever from Cromwell Ames than a simple frontal assault on Eddie Nero's headquarters, if that's what it was. They built him up as next gen crime guy, ruthless but also more savvy than some mere brute.

Tx for the info re full version, will look for it.. PBS does a disservice, should show the proper version over two hours if need be, to get their ads in. Or split into two 1-hour slots like Midsomer Murders, with plenty of time leftover. After all it's not like their schedule is so full of original programming that they don't have 30 mins to spare. Used to be they had the monopoly on Brit shows,  but no longer.

[maladroit]

I'm late to this discussion of PBS cuts, but wanted to note that, years ago, in frustration, I bought a region-free DVD player and purchased any Brit series I cared to own from Amazon UK.  The player itself wasn't that expensive, but all those DVDs added up.  Still, I'm happy to own the complete Morse and Lewis series--every snarky remark and touching scene intact.

[jjj]

8 minutes ago, maladroit said:

I'm late to this discussion of PBS cuts, but wanted to note that, years ago, in frustration, I bought a region-free DVD player and purchased any Brit series I cared to own from Amazon UK.  The player itself wasn't that expensive, but all those DVDs added up.  Still, I'm happy to own the complete Morse and Lewis series--every snarky remark and touching scene intact.

I did not know there was such a thing as a region-free DVD player!  There is a video store nearby (like, every movie and TV series from every country, everywhere) that rents out a U.K. DVD player for DVDs that they can only get in U.K. format.   I would not have rented it just for the leaf-raking scene, but would do it if there were a "lost" Endeavour episode out there!   (But now that I've seen the leaf-raking scene, I might take a U.K. DVD to the store and ask them to play that scene!)   

[tootsie]

Ita with the comments about seeing nothing sordid in Bright's interest in Trewlove. Never. Though I thought he might be a patronizing prig (thank you, show, for avoiding that pitfall) In fact, maybe I dreamed this or made it up after the fact, but didn't Bright mention a deceased daughter in a previous episode? (Or was it only that his wife had died?) Anyway, it clarifies and emphasizes his outrage at bad bully cop's sneering suggestion about Bright and Trewlove. Bright looked at a loss at first, but he practically rose from his chair breathing fire at the guy at mention of Trewlove.  I recall the cop actor's expression: taken aback, startled, almost fearful: "Did I poke the tiger (?) too often and too hard? Am I sure the door to the cage is well and truly fastened?" I also appreciated Trewlove's expression of gratitude to him at the end. Yes, she's smart and capable, but like any novice - male or female - she recognized the good influence of a mentor and took the time to say thank you. Righteous behavior on both their parts.

[Magnumfangirl]

32 minutes ago, tootsie said:

Ita with the comments about seeing nothing sordid in Bright's interest in Trewlove. Never.

Me neither.  I thought he was extra nice to her a little because she was a pretty young girl (I don't think this makes him a creep) and more because the higher ups sent her to his station so he had to like it whether he wanted to or not.  Besides, he was never into bucking the top brass.   

Edited August 1, 2018 by Magnumfangirl

[jjj]

37 minutes ago, tootsie said:

maybe I dreamed this or made it up after the fact, but didn't Bright mention a deceased daughter in a previous episode? (Or was it only that his wife had died?) 

I don't think he ever mentioned a daughter, and it was clear that Morse had no idea who the child was, so Bright offered some words about who she was.  And Bright's wife is alive -- he did mention that she was out of the house at the moment.  

[tootsie]

Bright has a WIFE??? Huh. Did I need the deleted scene to know this or was it mentioned in other episodes? (I always think I'm paying strict, relentless attention each week and then some small fact like this materializes to humble me.) 

[Popples]

Mrs. Bright has never been shown, but is mentioned often enough. Like when Fred's brother took him and Win to dinner, Bright said she was at a charity event. And in the first episode of series 3 his said his wife was friends with the mother of the  guy who overdosed, "flower arranging".

[Dessert]

I’m still intrigued by the shootout and how that will play out next season. I can’t, and don’t believe that everyone was killed. The whole thing seems badly planned to an almost absurd degree, but no survivors? Surely some people escaped. If not, this was a trap orchestrated by a third crew (which is what I suspect). I would not be suprised if  corrupt policemen were involved - maybe even the murderers.

A couple of interesting things: 1. As Nero was dying, he told Thursday “It wasn’t me”. He was clearly referring to Fancy, so he probably saw Fancy murdered there in the bar (or whatever it was). 2. While Fancy was on the radio, Cromwell Ames’ crew was unloading in front of him. At the same time, you can see a figure - probably the killer - approaching Fancy’s car through his rear window. BTW, much of that scene seemed silly to me. Ames’ crew was so obvious carrying their guns around, they might as well have used a bullhorn to tell everyone what they were doing; and Fancy was just planted right there, with no other cars around, in plain view of everyone. So indiscreet! No wonder he got killed.

[Tardislass]

My family thinks either Bright or Thursday orchestrated Fancy's killing. I'm more inclined to say it's someone in the police force we haven't met yet and will learn more about in Season 6. There has to be a reason writers wrote this storyline and didn't finish it and I doubt they'd use any of the regulars that are staying next season.

But yes, the killing of Fancy had me rolling my eyes and missing Inspector Lewis. Seeing Morse with the porn 'stache isn't helping:(

[tootsie]

Thanks, Popples. Yet another reason I should rewatch episodes. I recall the restaurant scene but no wife reference. Dialogue is sometimes unclear/blurry but more honestly,  my selective memory gets more selective with age.

[magdalene]

1 hour ago, Tardislass said:

My family thinks either Bright or Thursday orchestrated Fancy's killing. I'm more inclined to say it's someone in the police force we haven't met yet and will learn more about in Season 6. There has to be a reason writers wrote this storyline and didn't finish it and I doubt they'd use any of the regulars that are staying next season.

But yes, the killing of Fancy had me rolling my eyes and missing Inspector Lewis. Seeing Morse with the porn 'stache isn't helping:(

There has been a thread of police corruption running through this entire season and my very first suspicion was that Fancy was killed by corrupt police who made it look like a gangland killing.  But the thought that either Thursday or Bright orchestrated Fancy's killing is ridiculous to me. 

With the whole remaining team promising Bright they would bring Fancy's killer(s) to justice that's obviously going to be a major thing next season.

[DHDancer]

5 hours ago, magdalene said:

There has been a thread of police corruption running through this entire .....

Program.   Since Series 1 there has been free masonry and suspected tampering of evidence.  Strange joined the free masons if you remember and Morse warned him about serving 2 masters.

I suspect those bully cops of being behind Fancy's death.  

[carrps]

On 7/30/2018 at 7:58 AM, Jordan Baker said:

Unpopular opinion, perhaps, but I found this show too disturbing to watch. I came in a few minutes late, and so perhaps I missed some important info, but the minute I saw how awful the boys were, I was wary. I hate, hate, hate stories about children bullying each other and about abuse. I changed the channel to something else but then thought, "Aw, come on. Don't be such a coward." (Eek, that sounds like something one of the odious boys would say.) Anyway, I tuned back in just in time to see the awful games guy beating one of the students. And that was that.

I'm actually glad that I didn't stick with it, if there was no comeuppance for the bad guys.

The whole thing was way too Lord of the Flies for me. 

I'm usually this way, too, but I gutted it out, and the awful boys were not featured as much as I feared they would. Even as the little preview before the show started was running I told my sister watching with me how much I absolutely HATE bullying student stories.

 

ETA: What was the poem that Morse recited at the funeral? There was something said that implied he wrote it himself. Was it an original poem, or is it one I've never heard before? I loved that last line about looking west and seeing the landscape all brightly lit. Made me cry a bit. And I never thought I'd cry for Fancy!

Edited August 2, 2018 by carrps

[Dessert]

20 minutes ago, DHDancer said:

Program.   Since Series 1 there has been free masonry and suspected tampering of evidence.  Strange joined the free masons if you remember and Morse warned him about serving 2 masters.

I suspect those bully cops of being behind Fancy's death.  

I don’t think Bright or Thursday are involved in Fancy’s murder at all. That would truly ruin the series for me, but I’m not worried.

Bright has always been aware of malevolent forces at play and has warned Morse about crossing them. I don’t think he always knows how far they will go. The murderous cops in Neverland caught him somewhat by surprise. As everyone knows, the resolution of that case was covered up and buried. I don’t think he is an evil man or corrupt himself. He probably suspects some corruption is involved in Fancy’s death and feels helpless to do anything about it. 

I think those bully cops are behind Fancy’s death, too. I suspect they are vying for control of the Oxford drug trade themselves.

I’m becoming increasingly worried about Thursday. I could see someone using that check he wrote his brother to either blackmail him or, even worse, frame him for their crimes. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Charlie.

Speaking of Charlie, I think it’s completely in character for him to drag Fred to London to tell him about losing the money. He’s selfish, London is his turf, he’s in control there, and he doesn’t have to make the long, shameful drive home.

[LennieBriscoe]

  Wait...what?!

Besides the Bright and photo-of-daughter scene, I don't even recall the previous  season's "pregnancy of Joan" storyline! If it's on the PBS rendition,  might someone be so kind as to say which episode? ?

We were set up from the introduction of Fancy for his demise, as he was never quite as observant and disciplined as Morse would have liked. Plus, the ring purchase showed Fancy was prone to impetuous behavior, thinking he had found his...."true love."