S07.E04: Like Bad at Things

[SuprSuprElevated]

4 minutes ago, Kalamityjayne said:

There is going to be a season 8.

Maybe they can get the Roseanne "they hit the lottery" writers to pen those scripts.

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, Kalamityjayne said:

There is going to be a season 8.

Hopefully, they will get things back on track. 

[Kalamityjayne]

13 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Maybe they can get the Roseanne "they hit the lottery" writers to pen those scripts.

Its all just been a Seroquel induced dream? She never had Brody’s baby, Saul died along with the rest in the CIA building bombing, Quinn never existed.

[Lemons]

On 3/6/2018 at 3:49 AM, Kalamityjayne said:

JJ and the dog were unnecessary shots. I don’t think that boy was going to fire on the FBI over his dog.  Isn’t this what happened at Ruby Ridge? Dog gets shot then the boy does? 

 

The dog might have been unnecessary but the boy pointed his gun right at them.  That they only fired one shot was hard to believe.  

[KaveDweller]

I'm wondering if we are going to get Carrie and Saul to interact at all this season. I know their relationship has been rocky, but I feel like things are better when they are working together.

[meowmommy]

On 3/5/2018 at 10:59 AM, Loandbehold said:

Especially since Dr. Oleg had absolutely no ID. It would be one thing if he just grabbed one off of someone. Given the chaos in the hospital, nobody might have looked closely, but it was noticeable that he didn't have one and every other hospital personnel did.

Every hospital I've worked in, 90% of the doctors think they're too special to wear ID and nobody ever challenges them.

[chocolatine]

On 3/7/2018 at 7:14 PM, PreBabylonia said:

I think most people agree that it was the guy with the gloves, but I think there may be debate as to whether the general was poisoned when his mouth was inspected (long lingering tongue shots) or when his ass was inspected. Which would be a really terrible way to die. 

Nobody touched his ass. He was asked to bend over and spread his cheeks and one of the guards shone a flashlight up there.

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Nobody touched his ass. He was asked to bend over and spread his cheeks and one of the guards shone a flashlight up there.

That's what I thought too.  Why I was thinking ears.

[Kalamityjayne]

13 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I'm wondering if we are going to get Carrie and Saul to interact at all this season. I know their relationship has been rocky, but I feel like things are better when they are working together.

Is there a reason they almost never work together since S2? I just binged all the seasons before 7 started because my kid was in it, I hadn’t watched before so I’m not up on all discussion. I wasn’t sure if Mandy and Carrie don’t get along or if it was a creative decision. Don’t think its a scheduling thing, at least not this season because they filmed the same days through the fall- just not together. 

 

I also couldnt figure out why they both were in NY for S6. They barely interacted anyway and it seemed odd they both were working out of there when she was just doing her version of the innocence project not anything CIA related.

[TimWil]

On 3/4/2018 at 4:11 PM, chocolatine said:

 

I don't know how many of you guys watch The Americans, but the bearded man who infiltrated the hospital and took pictures of JJ was played by Costa Ronin, a.k.a. Oleg. I love my two spy shows crossing over and hope Costa's part is expanded.

I’m guessing Ronin is in only a few episodes at most because The Americans began shooting its final season in NY in November and I think this particular episode was shot in Richmond in October.

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, TimWil said:

I’m guessing Ronin is in only a few episodes at most

Just enough to establish that he's Russian, I suspect, and that Russian intelligence bankrolled O'Keefe and his troll farm.   

[TimWil]

Yep, Pallas. He didn’t say a word but he’s obviously going to be either Russian or from Eastern Europe. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

11 hours ago, Kalamityjayne said:

I wasn’t sure if Mandy and Carrie don’t get along or if it was a creative decision.

I'm thinking that he has a long standing reputation for not getting along with and/or treating his coworkers badly.  I can remember reading about some troubles on the set of Chicago Hope.  He has owned up to bad behavior from those days, but maybe not completely put it behind him.  It's too bad if true, because I've always considered him a really fine actor (singer too)!  I feel like he's a bit of a diva.

[Pallas]

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

It's too bad if true, because I've always considered him a really fine actor (singer too)!  I feel like he's a bit of a diva.

It's not true that Mandy treats his co-workers badly: I know of actors, directors and producers who would go through walls for him. His issues on Chicago Hope and then with Criminal Minds were specific to those times and shows, and as you said, he's owned up to those. Here's an interview from the set, four-and-half-years ago. 

As for Saul and Carrie's different paths, that seems to follow from Carrie's being sent undercover in season 3, to Kabul in season 4, and out of the CIA since then. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

8 hours ago, Pallas said:

It's not true that Mandy treats his co-workers badly: I know of actors, directors and producers who would go through walls for him.

Rumors have a way of being...rumor-y.

[Kalamityjayne]

On 10/03/2018 at 10:32 PM, Pallas said:

It's not true that Mandy treats his co-workers badly: I know of actors, directors and producers who would go through walls for him. His issues on Chicago Hope and then with Criminal Minds were specific to those times and shows, and as you said, he's owned up to those. Here's an interview from the set, four-and-half-years ago. 

As for Saul and Carrie's different paths, that seems to follow from Carrie's being sent undercover in season 3, to Kabul in season 4, and out of the CIA since then. 

I know he really had an issue with the darkness of Criminal Minds. I think the difficult behavior was left behind after Chicago Hope from what I’ve read about him previously.

 

I just wasnt sure if he and Claire had issues since they’re so rarely filmed together and I don’t get the diverging plot lines as far as story telling. It’s not like it’s necessary considering the story lines jump years at a time at one point between seasons.  I like him, I was hoping it’s just the weird choice of writers to keep them on different storylines and not issues. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Kalamityjayne

[gallimaufry]

Excellent episode.  Second season in a row the show has had a really ropey start but rallied in the fourth episode.  The Wellington plot is still ridiculous - both he and the general should be awaiting trial for treason.  And Carrie's upper and downer story still feels like a slow ticker.

But the siege plot was excellent.  I thought the dog shooting was believable and reasonable under the circumstances.  The fake news photograph was an inspired way to twist the knife.  The only ridiculous thing is that O'Keefe's signal wasn't jammed and no attempt appears to have been made to do so.  But it all felt grimly inevitable.

This episode is in general a hit but even when it's missing, I love that Homeland still feels ambitious and cutting-edge.  I wish 24: Legacy had bottled a bit of this instead of being so generic.

[Ottis]

As Saul has become more ineffective, my interest in the show has waned. And as Carrie has become more manic, the same. And I have little interest in this president and Brett what’s his name. And the militia dorks are not a compelling bad guy. So I’m not sure I will continue to watch. I don’t know what this show thinks it is doing exactly. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode with Alex Gansa & Lesli Linka Glatter: the siege

Clip:

[John Potts]

Love Carrie's sister for her "No BS" attitude toward Carrie, coloured by clearly caring about her, too.

Also, nice to see Carrie being competent in getting the info out of the loan office (bet her sister would have loved her being in the Carrie role!).

Was the guy that got the snap of the kid a Militiaman or just an irresponsible journalist? I guess he could be a spy, but I'd actually prefer it if it was somebody "Doing anything to get a story" that caused a massive death toll.

On ‎04‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 3:03 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I love that Franny remembers Max.

Pretty sure he introduced himself, though she might also have remembered.

On ‎05‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 6:42 AM, scrb said:

The FBI cuts off the power and the Internet after the shooting begins?

Also, they simply sat on their hands while one of their men was taken. Both sides had guns but apparently the FBI were prepared to allow one of their men taken prisoner? It's  like there were only three competent employees of the US government - and one of those is dead (Peter Quinn), one is crazy (Carrie) and the other is only intermittently competent (Saul)!

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 12:50 AM, meowmommy said:

Every hospital I've worked in, 90% of the doctors think they're too special to wear ID and nobody ever challenges them.

You know what they say - with a clipboard and confidence, you can get in anywhere (you'd hope not into The Pentagon or The White House, but I wouldn't bet against it).

[millennium]

I think the O'Keefe actor is doing a great job.   The character is perfectly loathsome and cowardly, a phony in every way except for his lust for attention.   He embodies everything you ever suspected about talk radio and FOX commentators.   Hands down, the real story of the season is Saul vs. O'Keefe.   Carrie's like an annoying friend who keeps bugging you when you're trying to watch TV.

[Roseanna]

On ‎4‎.‎3‎.‎2018 at 5:03 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

O'Keefe could have stopped  this several times and he refused to do so because his ego and his message were more important to him. He could have prevented the FBI from storming the castle if he had just done what Saul asked him to do and told everyone that JJ was alive and well, but no, he WANTED that massacre so that he could point to the FBI and say that they killed all of those people.

I agree. He agitated others and let him be killed but is personally a despicable coward. 
 

On ‎4‎.‎3‎.‎2018 at 11:11 PM, chocolatine said:

I agree with this, but I also have to put some of the blame on Saul. The FBI could have grabbed O'Keefe as soon as they found out where he was; before the militia came in it was just a few compound people who had guns. But Saul insisting on doing his "softly-softly" thing emboldened O'Keefe and gave the compound crew enough time to call in the militia. O'Keefe is obviously all bark and no bite, he wouldn't have resisted much if the FBI had come in hard right away, and the compound crew with their non-automatic shotguns would have capitulated as well.

Saul did precisely what the president asked him: he tried to avoid violence by persuading O'Keefe to surrender. But Saul trusted too much in his skill to get O'Keefe as an intelligent human being to understand and accept that the best option was to surrender and save others. He made an error of judgment by believing that O'Keefe had basic dedency: although he quite undertood his hopeless situation, he put his fame first. 

On the other hand, O'Keefe couldn't possibly know the development, so maybe his plan was only to prolong the siege so long as possible. But at least he intentionally abandoned the last chance to peacefull solution by not telling Saul's message that the boy was safe.

As for the FBI, they also made many errors. After their man was killed, they had no reason to attack so suddenly. It was pure revenge.   

[Roseanna]

On ‎12‎.‎3‎.‎2018 at 12:57 AM, gallimaufry said:

The fake news photograph was an inspired way to twist the knife.  

I can understand that the fake photograph was in the internet, but why it was in the TV news without any confirmation? Did they even ask the hospital? Have they ever heard of fake pictures? Didn't they ask themselves whether the president can order the doctors not to do what's their duty also even towards the POVs? Didn't they understand that if the president would have wanted to the boy die, she could simply have let him stay at home without any care. 

It's great to tell the news first, but less fine if it turns out that the news wasn't true for then one loses one's reliability.

Or was it the kind of the TV channel as O'Keefe's program: they don't care about reliability but offer what their watchers want and they are willing to believe anything bad about the president.   

[Roseanna]

On ‎5‎.‎3‎.‎2018 at 8:42 AM, scrb said:

Wellington goes behind Keane's back and she's furious so he tells her he's always believed in her and thinks she could be a great president.

She walks away without firing him.

Isn't it just typical, a man screws over a woman and gets away with it by gas lighting her?  ?

Carrie should have been rolling her eyes as she watched this, as the viewers should.

Maybe Keane has had nobody else than Wellington whom she has trusted. And now she can't trust even him.

Yet, she was elected which means that she must have tens of millions supporters, so there must be hundreds if not thousands of competent and reliable persons among them. But evidently the purpose is to make us to believe that she is all alone.

In the foreign policy, Keane is presented as an idealist who wants to do what she thinks is right, regardless of consequences whereas Wellington is ready to bend the rules in order to get what he thinks is necessary but who is thinking only such short-term goals as the president's popularity, not what the long-term national interests are in Syria.

On the other hand, it was just Wellington who got Keane to accept Saul's terms and realease 200 CIA person. So he has tactical skills whereas Keane tends to follow her line very rigidly.

As for the General's alleged murder, Wellington would be very stupid to do so as the president would be blamed. And his girlfriend's method doesn't seem very intelligent. In short, it's too evident - just like it was too evident in the last season that the bomb in Sekoy's car was set by him because he was a Muslim.       

[Jextella]

On 3/10/2018 at 9:32 PM, Pallas said:

It's not true that Mandy treats his co-workers badly: I know of actors, directors and producers who would go through walls for him. His issues on Chicago Hope and then with Criminal Minds were specific to those times and shows, and as you said, he's owned up to those. Here's an interview from the set, four-and-half-years ago. 

As for Saul and Carrie's different paths, that seems to follow from Carrie's being sent undercover in season 3, to Kabul in season 4, and out of the CIA since then. 

There are tons of stories about Mandy Pantinkin being a shithead to all around him.  However, he has changed in recent years - maybe because he had to humble himself to work in TV.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbaldoni/2015/04/01/mandy-patinkin-you-may-be-your-own-worst-enemy/#1eef0e5cbc90

https://www.bustle.com/articles/4022-homelands-mandy-patinkin-admits-to-being-an-asshole-but-hes-not-the-only-one

Edited July 10, 2018 by Jextella