S06.E12: All For Nothing

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, johntfs said:

He probably was suspicious.  He probably did check it out - or asked somebody he (wrongly?) trusted to check it out.  Whatever happened, either James was too emotionally compromised by what he saw on the drive to detect that it was manipulated or the person he asked was either not as good at this as Felicity (easily possible) or was the person who created the doctored evidence to begin with.

Either way, James accepts that the video is true.  At this point figure the next move would be for Felicity, not Oliver, to get into contact with James and show him a side-by-side comparison of the video where "Oliver" murders his son and the one that was leaked earlier.  James might be emotionally compromised, but he isn't stupid.  He should be able to draw the conclusion that he and Oliver have a common enemy - one who was willing to murder Cayden James' son to trick Cayden into going after the Green Arrow.

 

I don't buy that a guy who was already captured by ARGUS and managed to escape would be so cavalier as to let someone else check a mysterious USB that arrived, and I also find it hard to believe that someone who was out free and presumably hell-bent on getting revenge for his kid's murder wouldn't assume that any and every lead that fell into his lap would be a trick by ARGUS to lure him back into getting captured again. He'd be heavily invested in staying free, if only to get said revenge.

I like my villains as emotionally vulnerable as the next person, but I don't like them stupid - and at this point he seems pretty stupid to me. Especially since

Spoiler

the spoilers for the next episode indicate that when Oliver and Diggle show Cayden the original footage of his son's death, he realizes that the markers on the faked footage match the markers on the faked pic that was used to out Oliver as the Green Arrow. Wouldn't he have noticed whatever weird markers these are if he'd closely examined the file?

The only way any of this makes even a little bit of sense is if Alena was working a long con with Dick Dragon, and was the one who gave Cayden the USB drive and assured him that she'd checked it out and it was legit. I'd still have to hand wave that he wouldn't check it himself, but at least he trusts her and wouldn't have just plucked a USB out of the mail and went along with the information it contained uncontested. 

[Morrigan2575]

53 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Unless Alena is lying, the video arrived to Cayden on a USB drive sent in a package from Corto Maltese - for a murder that took place in Star City. Any hacker worth his salt (especially one worthy of being locked in an ARGUS black site) would've been suspicious of doing anything with a random USB drive he received in the mail - even if "EVIDENCE OF WHO KILLED YOUR SON" was written all over the envelope. 

I've decided that after 8 months (or whatever) being held in sleep/time deprivation James went totally nuts and his judgment is just out of whack. So, he just saw the video and his messed up mind just accepted it as true and being so messed up by Argue he just went on a revenge spree.

Sadly, non of that was really setup in the show but, it works for me ?

[KenyaJ]

6 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

So, I could almost sympathize with Dinah rushing off to save Vince - but ultimately it still feels like the kind of decision I’d expect from a petulant middle schooler. “You don’t understand - he’s my boyfriend!” 

I don't even blame her for going off to save Vince. I understand her POV there the same way I understood Felicity's when she was urging Ray to save Oliver. But the fact that Curtis and Rene tagged along with her instead of going to take care of the bomb just proves to me why they aren't and never will be heroes. They don't actually care about helping the city, they only care about intra-team personal dynamics. "Oliver was "mean" to them, so now they put each other's feelings above everything else - the safety the city is irrelevant, as long as they get to smugly pat themselves on the back for how much they trust each other. They're just cosplaying as superheroes at this point.

What does bother me about Dinah is her inability to hold herself accountable for her actions. After Vince died, she didn't consider for a second whether she did the right thing in running off to save him. She didn't feel any guilt or remorse about whether they could've located the bomb if the B-Team had gone with Oliver and Diggle. We've seen Oliver make a lot of wrong decisions, but almost every time things went wrong, he blamed himself and his own choices. Obviously he went overboard with his guilt sometimes a lot, but that's part of what makes him heroic, the fact that he's willing to carry all the consequences on his shoulders. We've seen Diggle and Felicity carry the weight of their failures and bad decisions too. But Dinah acts like she's a blameless victim in the circumstances that led to Vince's death, and that's why I don't feel at all sympathetic to her right now.

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

Team Not Arrow are just the worst. I hope something can be done about them and soon. 

Take them off screen any which way would be my preferred solution.

59 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I've decided that after 8 months (or whatever) being held in sleep/time deprivation James went totally nuts and his judgment is just out of whack. So, he just saw the video and his messed up mind just accepted it as true and being so messed up by Argue he just went on a revenge spree.

Sadly, non of that was really setup in the show but, it works for me ?

I still wish Cayden's motivation was his captivity in ARGUS and him snapping because of it. It could have been interesting and provided parallels to real life. Plus, something new. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

I don't even blame her for going off to save Vince. I understand her POV there the same way I understood Felicity's when she was urging Ray to save Oliver. But the fact that Curtis and Rene tagged along with her instead of going to take care of the bomb just proves to me why they aren't and never will be heroes. They don't actually care about helping the city, they only care about intra-team personal dynamics. "Oliver was "mean" to them, so now they put each other's feelings above everything else - the safety the city is irrelevant, as long as they get to smugly pat themselves on the back for how much they trust each other. They're just cosplaying as superheroes at this point.

What does bother me about Dinah is her inability to hold herself accountable for her actions. After Vince died, she didn't consider for a second whether she did the right thing in running off to save him. She didn't feel any guilt or remorse about whether they could've located the bomb if the B-Team had gone with Oliver and Diggle. We've seen Oliver make a lot of wrong decisions, but almost every time things went wrong, he blamed himself and his own choices. Obviously he went overboard with his guilt sometimes a lot, but that's part of what makes him heroic, the fact that he's willing to carry all the consequences on his shoulders. We've seen Diggle and Felicity carry the weight of their failures and bad decisions too. But Dinah acts like she's a blameless victim in the circumstances that led to Vince's death, and that's why I don't feel at all sympathetic to her right now.

Yeah, I agree with all this.  

Dinah going to save Vince on her own may or may not have been the right choice but I am ok with her being too emotionally invested to make any other choice.  But the way the Noobs just bailed on the whole mission of finding the bomb that James was threatening to set off imminently and peaced out while at the same time putting all the responsibility on Oliver and Diggle's shoulders even when Oliver flat out said they didn't have the manpower to do it alone, is just so not heroic. I'd have even been ok if ONE of the newbs had stuck around while the other went to help a distraught Dinah.  But they both bailed on any responsibilities to the city without a second thought.  

And when Dinah finds out that they weren't able to find the bomb, she furious AT Oliver for making Vince's death meaningless even though she's the one that instigated the circumstances that made it so.  I'm more astounded that she thought that Oliver was going to find the bomb since her excuse for going to save Vince was that they'd have already moved the bomb anyway, so her whole line of reasoning doesn't make sense. 

[statsgirl]

17 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

  The constant comments, lame quips, & tones of being offended because Oliver suspected one of you of turning on him is just too much. 

Oliver didn't just suspect though, he'd been informed by the FBI that one of his team had turned on him.  Eliminating his wife and the man he thought of as his brother, that left Curtis, Rene and Dinah.  Dinah (hypocritically hiding a huge secret) and Curtis were furious that they had been spied on, and Rene had little shame because he thought he'd done the right thing turning on Oliver.  It makes no sense that Dinah and Curtis would trust the man who sold them out over the one who hadn't.

7 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

Also, Lance is really scaring me. I think he might have substituted one addiction for another. I know he is grieving for his daughter but I really hope someone just makes him snap out of it.  I wouldn't have minded if he wanted to save Alt Laurel since he couldn't save his daughter but he is acting like Alt Laurel is his daughter complete with family pictures.

I'd prefer to see that story to this.

7 hours ago, johntfs said:

Either way, James accepts that the video is true.  At this point figure the next move would be for Felicity, not Oliver, to get into contact with James and show him a side-by-side comparison of the video where "Oliver" murders his son and the one that was leaked earlier.

That would be logical. So probably not going to happen.

Edited February 4, 2018 by statsgirl

[TwistedandBored]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'd prefer to see that story to this.

 

Me too. I remember Thea asked him if he was drinking and he was like no and went on about Alt Laurel. I was like so 1 addiction for another then. The show can actually play more into that. It would explain a lot.

Honestly, I just want someone on the show to sit him down explain to him that in simple words that is not his daughter. She looks and talks like his daughter but she is not his daughter. 

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I like my villains as emotionally vulnerable as the next person, but I don't like them stupid - and at this point he seems pretty stupid to me. Especially since

There's a reason there are phrases like "He was blinded by rage/grief/greed/lust/love/etc."  Strong emotion can make people blind/stupid.  Grief and rage are strong emotions.  While Cayden might have been made stupid by his strong emotions in the case of targeting Oliver, he might become open to receiving new information if approached correctly.  At which point Cayden will realize that someone set Oliver up and murdered his Cayden's son to do it.  Generally speaking, it's a really bad idea to get on the shitlist of any character being played by Michael Emerson.

[bijoux]

Just living in the same area as the person on the shit list seems infinitely worse. 

[Mary0360]

Michael Emerson has been both a blessing and a curse to Arrow imho. Blessing because of the calibre in performance he brings but because of his talent and reputation it seems to me like the writers have become lazy with the effort they've put into Cayden James character work and motivation. It's like they are expecting that just having Michael in the part will do most of the work for them because Benjamin Linus is one of the greatest characters of the noughties. But Benjamin Linus was both great acting AND great writing and rich character development. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Mary0360

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Mary0360 said:

But Benjamin Linus was both great acting AND great writing and rich character development. 

I never really watched/followed Lost after the first season, so I missed Ben Linus.  I did see Harold Finch uncorks a darker side a few times on Person of Interest and it was a sight to see.

[KirkB]

I think the whole "You killed my son!" story line is just a last minute attempt at a save on the writers part. They wanted Cayden James as the big bad menacing Star City (as Arrow's villains are contractually obligated to do) but someone realized too late he had no actual motivation to do so. He had every reason to go after Argus (it's not as if anyone on Team Arrow is associated with them in any way and thus has a plot thread ready to go) but not Star City and certainly not Team Arrow, who pretty much freed him from Argus custody. But the problem with revenge as the narrative is that kind of thing really only works when you're doing eye for an eye. "You killed my son!" should translate to "So I'll kill yours!" not "I will wipe out your entire city, and blackmail you for a ton of money while I'm at it." Now, if this whole things turns out to be a lie on James' part, as cover for whatever his true motivation is, that's fine, but I doubt this writers are doing layers.

[apinknightmare]

8 hours ago, johntfs said:

There's a reason there are phrases like "He was blinded by rage/grief/greed/lust/love/etc."  Strong emotion can make people blind/stupid.  Grief and rage are strong emotions.  While Cayden might have been made stupid by his strong emotions in the case of targeting Oliver, he might become open to receiving new information if approached correctly.  At which point Cayden will realize that someone set Oliver up and murdered his Cayden's son to do it.  Generally speaking, it's a really bad idea to get on the shitlist of any character being played by Michael Emerson.

Yes, I realize what "blinded by rage/grief/lust/love/etc." means. He just doesn't seem all that driven by emotion to me - he's incredibly cold, very calculating, very precise and patient. He doesn't seem to have any particular pressing need to get to Oliver - or to make Oliver specifically pay for anything. He's just killing a whole bunch of randos and bankrupting the city that his son lived in. Which would make sense if he hadn't put much thought into it and was just lashing out, but he clearly has put a lot of thought into it, to the point where he's counting on Oliver doing exactly what he's predicted him to do. So nothing that's happened so far gives me any indication that he has anything other than a case of the plot stupids. 

I'm glad the storyline is working for you, though! So I think we can probably agree to disagree where Cayden James is concerned. 

[DeadZeus]

And again Oliver is able to beat some grunt ass but still doesn't catch the bad guy and Oliver being "late" was pretty much part of the plan... What's the point of having him kick ass when it leads to nothing?

[SmallScreenDiva]

17 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

And again Oliver is able to beat some grunt ass but still doesn't catch the bad guy and Oliver being "late" was pretty much part of the plan... What's the point of having him kick ass when it leads to nothing?

Because oftentimes on this show the fights are the "end" not the means to an end. 

[statsgirl]

11 hours ago, johntfs said:

There's a reason there are phrases like "He was blinded by rage/grief/greed/lust/love/etc."  Strong emotion can make people blind/stupid.  Grief and rage are strong emotions.

It's been a year since his son was killed, and almost a year since Felicity freed him from ARGUS so he should be over the blinded part..  I hear that "revenge is a dish best served cold" so it makes even less sense that he's randomly killing all over Star City.

And he owes Alena and Felicity for freeing him from ARGUS.

[johntfs]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It's been a year since his son was killed, and almost a year since Felicity freed him from ARGUS so he should be over the blinded part..  I hear that "revenge is a dish best served cold" so it makes even less sense that he's randomly killing all over Star City.

And he owes Alena and Felicity for freeing him from ARGUS.

The blindness occurred when he got and didn't fully vet the video.  He's had no real reason to reconsider his actions.  Now that Oliver and Felicity know about the video and that it's fake, perhaps Felicity can leverage Cayden debt to her for helping free him to get him to consider new information and refocus on to the real target/enemy.

[arjumand]

On 2/3/2018 at 8:49 PM, TwistedandBored said:

 I hope this story leads to him to realize the two Laurels are two different people. He is actually making offended on dead Laurel's behalf which is weird. 

I know, right? I mean, he's replacing his daughter with a sociopathic murderer, just because they look and sound the same. Come on, dude. Though I'm starting to worry that the showrunners think this can actually happen, that BS (heh. Never stops being funny) can be redeemed.

I've been going through the thread since the episode, liking various posts, not feeling any particular urge to post myself. This episode was the very definition of meh.

Yes, someone died. I didn't care? I mean, we were told all along that he couldn't die. But he can if fake Laurel screams long enough? I guess? I know I've wished for death during some of KC's scenes in the past - does that count? Whatever.

And regarding the whole NTA thing - are we the exception? Does the majority of the show's audience love these guys and want more of them? Because otherwise I don't understand why the writers are doubling down on these people being utterly obnoxious in their every appearance. I mean, I love Oliver's tactic of just ignoring all their dumb comments, I'm just wary of interpreting it as a tactic, rather than 'Rene/Curtis/Dinah lands a zinger that no-one on OTA can answer'.

That's the same reason I'm scared of letting myself enjoy the Olicity - I've been burnt before by this show. The minute I relax and let myself enjoy stuff, it gets snatched away from me.

Oh, and another thing - why did Vince have to phone Dinah just outside the evil lair? Couldn't he, like, put a few miles between himself and the supervillains before he started ostentatiously smashing phones and so on? And what kind of awesome vigilante meta lets himself be blindsided by an ageing Russian mobster? Ugh, this show.

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, arjumand said:

Yes, someone died. I didn't care? I mean, we were told all along that he couldn't die. But he can if fake Laurel screams long enough? I guess? I know I've wished for death during some of KC's scenes in the past - does that count? Whatever.

I don't have a problem with the because most of the things I've watched/ready limits healing factors/immortality to the head/brain. Highlander, cut of the head for final death, Heroes Clair couldn't revive if there was something (stick in one episode) in her brain, even in X-Men comics Professor X had a contingency plan for Wolverine and, (presumably) Sabertooth which involved cutting off his head and burying the head/body in separate areas. Deapool is (to my limited memory) the only character that can survive/regenerate if the head is gone and, that's because Thanos made him super immortal in order to keep Deadpool/Death apart...jealous little bastard.

So, BS sonically scrambling Vince's brains/turning them to mush works for me as a final death to someone with super healing. Of course they could have also gotten BC to vengence with having the brain so scrambled that Vince went into a longtime coma or having Vince totally forget who he is and who Dinah and their "love" which would have been a spiritual death for a body that can't die. I think that would have been a meatier storyline for Dinah but, doesn't get them to Kill Kill Kill which seems to be their ultimate goal with Dinah (for now).

Edited February 5, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

@Morrigan2575, thanks for those examples because the death was fishy to me as well.

[Featherhat]

5 hours ago, arjumand said:

I know, right? I mean, he's replacing his daughter with a sociopathic murderer, just because they look and sound the same. Come on, dude. Though I'm starting to worry that the showrunners think this can actually happen, that BS (heh. Never stops being funny) can be redeemed.

I've been going through the thread since the episode, liking various posts, not feeling any particular urge to post myself. This episode was the very definition of meh.

Yes, someone died. I didn't care? I mean, we were told all along that he couldn't die. But he can if fake Laurel screams long enough? I guess? I know I've wished for death during some of KC's scenes in the past - does that count? Whatever.

And regarding the whole NTA thing - are we the exception? Does the majority of the show's audience love these guys and want more of them? Because otherwise I don't understand why the writers are doubling down on these people being utterly obnoxious in their every appearance. I mean, I love Oliver's tactic of just ignoring all their dumb comments, I'm just wary of interpreting it as a tactic, rather than 'Rene/Curtis/Dinah lands a zinger that no-one on OTA can answer'.

That's the same reason I'm scared of letting myself enjoy the Olicity - I've been burnt before by this show. The minute I relax and let myself enjoy stuff, it gets snatched away from me.

Oh, and another thing - why did Vince have to phone Dinah just outside the evil lair? Couldn't he, like, put a few miles between himself and the supervillains before he started ostentatiously smashing phones and so on? And what kind of awesome vigilante meta lets himself be blindsided by an ageing Russian mobster? Ugh, this show.

Exactly, he's not saying "couldn't save my Laurel but I can save this one" etc. He's on the road to continuing himself this is his Laurel back from the dead. Unless the writers think they have said that and its just not coming across ala apparently thinking NopeTA have a reasonable point and their obnoxious comments are funny/flumox OTA into not being able to respond?

Or as MG said since they write for LL not BS they've managed to forget she isn't simply a brainwashed E1LL.

Totally agree with your point re Olicity as well.

I don't think we're the exceptions re the toddlers but there are people supporting them or saying Tinah or Rene are justified. Fewer seem to think Curtis is, because its so obvious if OTA had included him in their gang he would have been more than happy to nanite the other two up and celebrate being officially OTA.

Some others also think Quentin and BS is the best thing the show has ever done, but I guess a lot of those hope she'll rejoin Team Arrow and the show will reset to LL S1_or 4.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Featherhat

[BunsenBurner]

Finally watched this episode with my brother on a large screen TV. Near the beginning F is in the lair sipping coffee. Stopped the vid and there’s a hand drawn picture of a cup of steaming coffee on the side for the machine she’s standing in front of. Is this the returned expresso/coffee maker?

 

I couldn’t find anything on YouTube so I looked at the CW app and it’s at 7:50-51 in the show. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

Is this the returned expresso/coffee maker?

They wouldn't return this BACK to Oliver and Felicity. They returned it at the store where it came from.

[statsgirl]

That kind of makes Iris' reaction even worse. Oliver and Felicity have them something that is important to them personally  and they wanted their friends to share in it, and Iris birches because it wasn't on their list.

[BkWurm1]

31 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

Finally watched this episode with my brother on a large screen TV. Near the beginning F is in the lair sipping coffee. Stopped the vid and there’s a hand drawn picture of a cup of steaming coffee on the side for the machine she’s standing in front of. Is this the returned expresso/coffee maker?

 

I couldn’t find anything on YouTube so I looked at the CW app and it’s at 7:50-51 in the show. 

Someone pointed out that they'd seen the same coffee snack station in the Bunker really early on this season so it couldn't be the exact one Iris and Barry returned but it could have been the same model that they later bought for their friends as well.  

[AudienceofOne]

This was like an episode of everything that's annoying me about this season all put together in one perfect 40 minutes of STFU Team Loser and Laurel Must Die.

[BkWurm1]

It occurs to me that I look back at the episodes after 6-10 and they all blur together and I can't recall what happened when.  And for the most part, it doesn't even matter, lol.  

[tv echo]

612 (All for Nothing) – Oliver Queen’s voiceover intro:
Oliver (voiceover): "My name is Oliver Queen. After five years in hell, I returned home with only one goal - to save my city. Today I fight that war on two fronts: By day, I lead Star City as its mayor. But by night, I am someone else. I am something else. I am the Green Arrow."

612 (All for Nothing) – When a discouraged Oliver enters the Arrow Bunker, Felicity tries to cheer him up by talking honeymoon plans:
Felicity: "Oh. Oh, I love your face, but that is just not a good face. What's up?"
Oliver: "Just spent the past two hours trying to convince the city council that we will get out from underneath Cayden James' thumb. I'm not sure even I believe that at this point."
Felicity: "Hey. (Hugs him and sighs) You know what I'm looking forward to once we put Cayden James away?"
Oliver: "What's that?"
Felicity: "Our honeymoon."
Oliver: "Heh."
Felicity: "We are going on a honeymoon, right?"
Oliver: "Aruba."
Felicity: "Aruba. Ooh."
Oliver: "Mm-hmm. Any news here?"
Felicity: "We split the city in half with the other team. Divide and conquer is not getting us any closer to finding Cayden James. Our sector has been quiet for a few hours. (Computer chimes.) 'Has been' being the operative phrase. (Takes Oliver by the hand and goes to her computer) Okay. Facial recognition picked up Vigilante. Despite his mask having no face, Cayden James' people don't ordinarily walk around like that."
Oliver: "We might have caught a break. Let's text John the location."

612 (All for Nothing) – OTA meet with NTA and Vince Sobel AKA Vigilante at the old Helix headquarters:
Felicity (entering with Curtis): "I can't believe that you had time to secretly put all this together. And continue starting our startup."
Curtis: "Well, being single does wonders for your time management."
Felicity: "Okay. On your next date, you are not allowed to lead with that."
Oliver: "How do you know you can trust him?"
Rene: "He saved my life last week. Killed one of James' men to do it."
Curtis: "And he's in love with Dinah. Just stating facts."
Dinah: "Vince is working on locating the thermobaric bomb."
Rene: "We take that out of play, we got the situation handled."
Oliver: "What kind of progress are you making locating the bomb?"
Vince: "Not much. Cayden keeps the bomb on the move constantly. He has become especially paranoid since I killed one of his men. Your stunt with A.R.G.U.S. last night didn't help matters."
Oliver: "So why don't you just take us to where Cayden and his men are hiding?"
Vince: "Because the second you show up, he'll detonate the bomb. With the amplifier he has, he'll take out the city."
Rene: "He's right, and until we find out where that bomb is, we've got no moves."
Felicity: "Okay. Well, then we just - we find out where the bomb is. Last year, we used a sniffer device to pull information from Prometheus' mother's house."
Curtis: "You want to use the same device for Cayden James?"
Felicity: "That's exactly what I want to do. We can gather all his ones and zeroes. There's got to be a scrap of data left in there somewhere."
Diggle: "Then we have someone to plant Felicity's toy for us."
Felicity: "Yeah. There's just one small problem."
Dinah: "Just one?" 
Felicity: "Well, two, actually. The sniffer needs to be manually implanted into Cayden's server."
Dinah: "No. No, no. There's no way he can do that without Cayden noticing, Felicity, especially now that he's circling the wagons."
Vince: "I knew what I signed up for. I didn't expect this to be easy. What else?"
Felicity: "Okay. Cayden's server is deep within the building. So while our comms will be working, transmitting a data pull that large, it requires line of sight."
Curtis: "Which means you have to install the sniffer, then wait for it to download the content of Cayden James' server."
Felicity: "Making sure Cayden doesn't see you or the sniffer. That would be bad, very bad."
Curtis: "And then get it outside, so you can transmit the files."
Rene: "Yeah. That sounds like more than two problems."
Diggle: "Sounds like a good way of getting yourself killed."
Vince: "Then it's a good thing I heal fast."

612 (All for Nothing) – NTA goes to the Arrow Bunker to work with OTA, while Vince plants the sniffer in Cayden James' server:
Curtis: "Nice. Love what you guys haven't done with the place."
Dinah: "Heh. Let's get this over with."
Felicity: "We, uh, turned your room into a home gym because - because this extremely awkward situation needs to be masked with humor."
Diggle: "I think what she means to say is, welcome back."
Rene: "We have the inside man. You have the tech. That's the only reason we're back, Hoss."
Oliver: "Is Vince on site?"
Dinah: "Should be as of five minutes ago. That is if everything goes according to plan."
Diggle: "You sound like it might not."
Dinah: "Vince said he doesn't have access to the server room. So if anyone spots him in there, he's gonna have a lot of explaining to do."
Felicity: "We've got eyes."
(They all crowd around the computer monitor.)
Dinah: "Can I talk to him?"
Felicity: "Yeah."
Dinah (over comms): "Hey, Vince. You get any kind of bad feeling here at all, you abort, you hear me?"
Vince (over comms): "Don't worry. I'll see you soon."
Felicity: "He's at the server."
Vince (over comms): "The door to the server room's locked. You guys have a solve for this?"
Felicity (over comms): "Try 06141998."
Dinah: "Try?"
Felicity: "It's his son's birthday."
Rene: "If you're wrong, he's dead."
Felicity: "I'm not gonna be wrong.
(Vince punches the code into the keypad and the door unlocks.)
Vince: "Phew.
Felicity (over comms): "Okay, Vince. You're in the red zone. Just let the sniffer do its thing. (Vince plugs the sniffer in) 80 terabytes of data. You guys can get comfortable. This is gonna take a minute."
Cayden (entering the server room): "Mr. Sobel?"
Felicity: "Frak."
Cayden: "I think we need to talk."
*  *  *
Cayden: "All of my people have specific domains. I don't believe that I.T. is one of yours, which means you would not have a proper passcode to enter."
Oliver: "How much data's been copied?"
Curtis: "20%."
Vince: "No, but Mr. Sheck did. He was a little more loose-lipped than you'd like. Rest in peace."
Cayden: "Still doesn't explain what exactly you're doing in here."
Dinah: "We got to pull him out."
Oliver: "Dinah, not yet."
Dinah: "Oliver!"
Felicity: "Okay, wait. (Over comms) Vince, if you want to stay alive, repeat exactly what I say. You think just -"
Vince: "Because I can handle a gun doesn't mean I know the difference between a trans-polymer hybrid and a fiber optic cable. I'm just impressed. I wanted to know how you maximized the data throughput. Sorry. I should have asked first."
Cayden: "Perhaps. I may have underestimated you. It seems that you have more skill than I gave you credit for."
Vince: "I keep telling people I'm more than just a pretty face."
Felicity (over comms): "Keep him talking. We're at 80%."
Vince: "Funny thing is, I underestimated you, too."
Cayden: "Is that right?"
Vince: "When you recruited me to help you take this city from Oliver Queen, I didn't think you'd have the resolve to do what was necessary to make him fear you. I was wrong."
Cayden: "Does that mean that you also fear me, Mr. Sobel?"
Vince: "I'd be a fool not to."
Cayden: "Such flattery. Are we done here?"
Felicity (over comms): "Yeah. We're good. Take the sniffer and leave."
Vince: "After you."
(They leave the server room.)
Cayden: It appears that Mr. Knyazev has returned from the port. Join us in five." (Leaves)
Vince: "Absolutely."
Dinah (over comms): "You were amazing."
Felicity (over comms): "Yeah, we'll engrave your Oscar when you're out of the building."
Vince (over comms): "Phew. Heading out now."

612 (All for Nothing) – Vince is caught by Cayden and Anatoly:
Vince (over comms): "All right. Transmitting now."
Felicity: "It's coming through. Man, this is the mother lode. We're gonna need Alena on this to help us process."
Dinah (over comms): "Now get your ass back to Helix."
Vince (over comms): "On my way."
*  *  *
Cayden: "Mr. Sobel."
Vince: "Sorry. I got a text from my girlfriend. She's at the hospital. Thinks it's appendicitis."
Cayden: "Well, I'm sure the doctors are doing everything they can. I need you here for a rather important assignment."
Vince: "Yeah? What's that?"
Cayden: "Rooting out a traitor."
(Vince is tasered from behind by Anatoly.)

612 (All for Nothing) – Felicity, Curtis and Alena search through the data retrieved from Cayden's server:
Felicity: "Cayden sure has a lot of junk in his server for someone who's as Type 'A' as you say he is."
Alena: "Well, brilliant people are often slobs. Or so I tell myself... and my dates."
Curtis: "Show-off. I can't even get a date."
Diggle: "Anything yet?"
Felicity: "Well, if by 'anything,' you mean the location of the bomb, no, not yet."
Diggle: "Okay. How much longer is this gonna take?"
Rene: "Yeah. How much longer do I got to be here, because I'm starting to get PTSD."
Felicity: "Maybe an hour."
Alena: "Hopefully, less."
Dinah: "I'm gonna head back to Helix. I should have heard from Vince by now."
Rene: "I'll go with you."

612 (All for Nothing) – Felicity and Alena locate Cayden's bomb; Oliver wants the two teams to go retrieve the bomb, but Dinah wants to go rescue Vince:
Dinah (entering with Rene): "Vince didn't make it back to Helix."
Rene: "Did he reach out to any of you?"
Oliver: "No."
Felicity: "Boom!"
Alena: "Goes the dynamite!"
Felicity: "Oh, yeah!" (High-fives Alena)
Curtis: "Maybe not the best choice of words, considering the circumstances."
Felicity: "Oh. If by circumstances you mean locating Cayden's bomb, then, yes, we just did."
Oliver: "Where?"
Felicity: "Warehouse district, 10th and Valley."
Diggle: "What exactly are we walking ourselves into here?"
Felicity: "We have no idea. It's a surveillance dead zone. We can't really see a thing."
Rene: "No surprise there."
Felicity: "The place is massive."
Oliver: "Then we need everybody. Agreed?"
(He looks at NTA and they nod. Computer chimes and they hear Vince groaning over the comms.)
Alena: "What's that?"
Felicity: "That's Vince. He just activated his comms."
*  *  *
Dinah: "Vince. Oh, my God. We need to help him."
Oliver: "Hey. Look. Like Vince said, James is constantly moving the bomb. This might be our only chance."
Dinah: "He is being tortured."
Diggle: "And he can handle it. With his healing abilities, they can't do anything to hurt him permanently. As far as we know, this could be a trap."
Oliver: "Once the bomb is rendered safe, we go back in, we get Vince."
Dinah: "He has already been made. By the time we get there, that bomb is gonna be long gone!"
Oliver: "You don't know that."
Dinah: "Yes, I do. Look. We all got him into this. We should all be getting him out! ... Fine. I'll do it myself."
Oliver: "Dinah. Vince would not want you to do it this way."
Dinah: "Don't you dare! You know damn well if it was Felicity out there, if it was Lyla, this wouldn't even be up for debate. Vince is my family, and I am not letting him die. Not again."
Curtis: "Dinah."
Dinah: "You're not talking me out of this, Curtis."
Rene: "We know. That's why we're coming with you."
Curtis: "You're our family, too. We'll save Vince. You guys save the city." 
Oliver: "We're not gonna be able to cover the bomb's location with half the manpower."
Rene: "Looks like you're gonna have to figure out a way, Hoss."

612-All for Nothing – Black Siren kills Vince Sobel:
(Dinah is trapped under rubble.)
Vince: “Hang on.”
Dinah: “Vince.”
Vince: “I'll get you free.”
(Cayden James, Black Siren and some minions approach.)
Cayden: “Oh, I highly doubt that.”
(Black Siren sonic screams Vince up against the wall. A metal spike has gone through his shoulder, pinning him. He gasps, while Dinah struggles to free herself.)
Cayden: “Your ability to withstand extreme punishment is impressive. But we all have our limits. Let's find Mr. Sobel's. (Black Siren looks at Cayden) Don't make me doubt your loyalty, too, Ms. Lance.”
Dinah (gasping): “No. No, please. Please. Please. Don’t.”
(Cut to flashback of when Dinah, as “Tina,” first got her meta cry.)
Sonus: Hey, Tina. You're not looking too good. But I got something here that might put a smile on your face. Look who we got here.”
Tina/Dinah: “Oh, my God. Vinnie. I am begging you. Please.” (Electricity flickers, gun shoots Vinnie in the head, Dinah sonic screams.) 
(Cut back to present day, where Black Siren sonic screams into Vince’s ear, killing him. She and Cayden James then leave. Curtis and Rene come running up.)
Curtis: “Oh, my God.”
Rene (seeing Dinah): “Hey! Dinah! Hey!” 
(Rene and Curtis lift the heavy wood beam off of Dinah. She gets up and goes over to Vince.)
Dinah: “Baby. Baby. Baby, wake up. Oh, babe, please. Baby, please wake up. Wake up.”
Rene: “He's gone, D.”
Dinah: “No. Oh, my God. No, baby, not again. No. Oh, no. Baby, no.”

612 (All for Nothing) – OTA and Alena view the doctored video of Cayden's son's murder that Alena found among the data retrieved from Cayden's server:
(Oliver and Diggle enter the Arrow Bunker.)
Felicity: "Sorry."
Diggle: "We needed more numbers. We didn't have them."
Oliver: "Any word from the other team?"
Felicity: "I wish it was better news."
Diggle: "Vince?"
Felicity: "He didn't make it."
Oliver: "How is Dinah?"
Felicity: "I'm guessing as good as she can be."
Diggle: "It was a choice between an entire city or one man. You made the right call."
Felicity: "I know it feels like this was all for nothing, but it's not entirely true. Alena found something."
Alena: "I've been working on the data haul from Cayden's servers."
Oliver: "Mm-hmm. What'd you find?"
Alena: "Evidence he received while in Corto Maltese - video of his son's murder."
(They watch the video on the computer monitor.)
Alena: "It's Cayden's son. Owen Post."
Felicity: "Guess we know why he hates you so much."
Oliver: "This is fabricated. It didn't happen."
Felicity: "This could not have been you. You were in Hub City."
Diggle: "Yeah, but Owen Post was still murdered supposedly by the Green Arrow. Wouldn't the S.C.P.D. be all over this? The FBI?"
Alena: "Records in the case were wiped clean."
Oliver: "Right. So Cayden wanted me all to himself and didn't want anyone to get in the way. How do we prove that this is fake?"
Felicity: "Well, we're working on that, but there is something super interesting about this. The digital alteration of this is consistent with that of the bogus surveillance photo of you in the Green Arrow suit."
Diggle: "We thought Cayden James leaked that image."
Felicity: "Whoever doctored this leaked that photo."
Diggle: "To make James think you killed his son."
Alena: "Whoever planned this knew exactly how Cayden would react."
Felicity: "Which means that person has to be close to Cayden."
Oliver: "If that's true, Vince wasn't the only traitor that Cayden has to worry about."

612 (All for Nothing) – A grieving Dinah vows to kill Black Siren:
Oliver: “Felicity's been going through the data that Vince pulled out, and for the first time, Dinah, for the first time, we have some viable options.”
Dinah: “'Viable options'? You know, I used to tell Vince his way of seeking justice wasn't viable. I convinced him to change, just how you convinced me. But you know what, Oliver? Vince was right. The only way to bring justice to this city is with a bullet.”
Oliver: “No, Dinah. I need you to listen to me.”
Dinah: “I'm going to make sure Vince didn't die for nothing. I'm going to kill every last one of them… starting with Laurel.”

Edited March 17, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Black Siren murders Vince Sobel in 612...

(DragonBallContent)

Also, edited 612 Olicity scene (without background music):

Edited May 6, 2020 by tv echo