S05.E20: The Untitled Rachel Berry Project

[jaytee1812]

Two loose ends were Rachel's and Sam's motivations. In the former case, we have had three episodes to get used to the silly idea that she is already tired of achieving her life-long dream and that Broadway will welcome her back with open arms once she returns from Hollywood (okay, maybe the Glee version of Broadway would); Sam's decision that getting displayed half-naked on the side of a bus was the extent of his ambitions was harder to swallow because it was so sudden and we barely had time to process it; I had no problem however with him returning to Lima and assuming some of Finn's mantle.

 

My problem with Sam picking up Finn's mantle is that would require Sam going to college and becoming a teacher. Frankly I find Sam graduating bordering on the probable him going to college would be completely fuckin ludicrous, even by this shows standards. 

[Joystickenvy]

My problem with Sam picking up Finn's mantle is that would require Sam going to college and becoming a teacher. Frankly I find Sam graduating bordering on the probable him going to college would be completely fuckin ludicrous, even by this shows standards.

To be fair, Mr. Cheats off the girl who thinks the square root of 4 is rainbows wasn't exactly Mensa material either. Maybe he will go work in Burt's garage.....naked.

[aradia22]

 

Sam's decision that getting displayed half-naked on the side of a bus was the extent of his ambitions was harder to swallow because it was so sudden and we barely had time to process it; I had no problem however with him returning to Lima and assuming some of Finn's mantle.

I mean, they did establish it as his ambition in the episode where we really focused on his modeling ambition when he came to NY. However, I think we assumed that A) he wouldn't achieve his goal that quickly and B) once he had booked that one job, he wouldn't be content to just go back to Lima. I thought he wanted to be a model, not just get on the side of one bus and be done with it.

[caracas1914]

I found the June character creepy in a vaguely ill-defined way. There were hints she was a closet homophobe (at least towards Kurt), plus it was implied she was flirty/attracted to Blaine and even a bit jealous of Kurt. Knowing he was Blaine's fiance/lover and referring to Kurt as Blaine's friend to his face was just mean spirited. Telling Blaine to call off their engagement after knowing him for just a few hours. Plus that horrifically dated showcase number from "Pippin" where she sang /croaked as much as Blaine. Just bizarre.

One had the impression she would have jumped Blaine's bones if she didn't feel her own brittle bones would have snapped in two. Just a pointless character to create conflict that was resolved in a pat manner.

Edited May 16, 2014 by caracas1914

[Lillybee]

I have disliked Rachel since season one, She came across a person who gets what she wants and really doesn't care about who she needs to step on to get it. Quitting FG for a tv pilot seems exactly what Rachel would do. Why would she care if the show loses money without her? I hate to say it but I always though that she was a bitch (not to degrade female dogs).

[Lillybee]

I have to give Shirley McLaine credit for not having extreme plastic surgery. She looks age appropiate.

[Higgs]

Nowadays being anonymous is worse than being poor. Fame is the most important thing in our culture today, and if there's one thing I've learned, it's that nobody's just going to hand it to you. - Rachel Berry, GLEE pilot

This credo is one of the first things we hear Rachel say, and her main story arc was always about discovering its foolishness and destructiveness. The too-sudden FG triumph was a necessary obstacle on her journey to enlightenment. Having to portray herself on the TV show will be the mechanism by which she comes to understand a deeper purpose of life and artistry, whence the original ending of coming "home" to Finn (whether it was to have been in NYC or Lima, with or without a career).

S6 will begin with Rachel dumping FG for her TV show in order to gain much more money and fame, and thereby supporting higher salary demands if she returns to Broadway. This is fully consistent with her original culture-sanctioned goal, equated to Broadway success only as long as Rachel perceived that as the sole means to its achievement. She is possessed, and in the course of the exorcising struggle to follow she will be tested and torn. That she will land safely on her feet is certain, but the precise location is still up in the air.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Higgs

[caracas1914]

Landing on her feet?

She will delicately descend on angel wings to a gilded platform. Shades of her ' run Joey run' video.

[Lola]

If I had not been reasonably certain that there was some Klaine plot line I wanted to see, I would have turned the show off a couple of minutes in (as it seems by the ratings a lot of Americans did).

I hated Rachel's storyline, was alarmed at shots of Sam back in the halls of McKinley, but happy at Blaine moving back into the loft.

That Rachel storyline was abysmal, though.

[RealityCowgirl]

Ditto to pretty much everything said here so far - including the idea that this could be a perfectly okay way for this show to fade into the sunset. Put it out of our collective misery. Please.

I can't help mourning what might have been if they'd actually taken the frame for the NYC focus that they should have adopted after the originals graduated. I don't have an issue with who ended up in New York (well, except Blaine. Not opposed to him individually, just this deadly tedious pairing.).

It * could* have been very interesting to see a *mix* of story lines, of how they individually navigate their new paths while leaning on each other to get through the tough stuff. Artie in film school could have been a great story (but God forbid we give Kevin McHale an actual story. Biggest disgrace of all, in my book. I'll never forgive them for that.) Even Sam stumbling into a modeling career could have brought a different kind of story to tell. Kurt finding his place to shine and blossom, Rachel having a realistic (HA!) path to her dream (whatever the heck it is this week), Santana rocking PR or coming up with something Santana-esque and outrageously awesome. All could have given loyal viewers a reason to follow through with characters we've come to love.

But nooooooooooooooo. No. We get this wretched piece of Rachel-centered sewage that has destroyed everything we've grown to love.

Ryan Murphy and his band of hacks suck.

Edited May 18, 2014 by RealityCowgirl

[Kromm]

Ryan Murphy and his band of hacks suck.

Bingo.

 

As a character it's hard to blame Rachel, when she's just the personification of Ryan Murphy (probably even more than being a personification of Lea Michelle--who at the very least knows what it's like to have to work for her success).

 

Although to be fair, I'd like to know (although we'd never likely hear) what Lea herself thinks of this crap.  I suppose nothing gets done with her character without her total agreement, so there's plenty of blame to spread around.

 

What I'd have loved to see, way back when Rachel was first thrust into NY, was for her to go on a lot of TV auditions, then get a part on a (fictional) Soap.  That would have allowed the character to stay in New York, have the same kind of college vs. career struggle, and left Funny Girl as an eventual series endgame for her (because going from a Soap role to Broadway is a realistic upward climb, without it being too unbelievably steep)--which given what we were always told of the character it should have been.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Kromm

[Joystickenvy]

The season finale before the summer of lies, I was totally enamoured of the idea of Kurt & Rachel being BFFs in NY. But then they had to go and ruin it with the split narrative & then the handing Rachel FG SL. What might have been, if the show wasn't run by people with more ego than competence.

[CleoCaesar]

I suppose nothing gets done with her character without her total agreement

 

I doubt that. RM seems like a tyrant and makes his monkeys dance for him the way he wants them to. Lea's very professional and gamely tweets compliments about even the shittiest of episodes, but I doubt she has that much control over her character. This is just personal opinion, not fact-based.

[tom87]

Although to be fair, I'd like to know (although we'd never likely hear) what Lea herself thinks of this crap.  I suppose nothing gets done with her character without her total agreement, so there's plenty of blame to spread around.

I don't get this at all.    What we do know is for example she begged for a a certain Celine song and Ryan gave her the wrong song so he obviously doesn't listen to her all that closely.    We also know that when asked how she wanted Rachel's story to end it was with Rachel winning a Tony and her glee freinds looking on.  This she said in March when she probably already knew this was not the plan. 

 

I do not think Lea has as much power as people like to pretend.    I know Lea likes to be involved in  Rachel's wardrobe and gets to suggest a song or two but that is about it.    She was consulted in when she was ready to come back to work and what song she wanted to have Rachel sing for Finn but that were extreme circumstances.

 

She certainnly has never had as much control as a cast member directing or wrting the script.

 

Just becasue Lea toes the company line and is somewhat friendly with Ryan outside of glee does not mean she has much say. If she did her manager should have gotten her a producers credit.

Edited May 18, 2014 by tom87

[Kromm]

Lets just say that in a logical universe (based on decades of TV breakout stars usually having, lets be honest, entirely TOO much power) Lea Michelle would probably have some real pull, and it's probably testament to the control freak nature of Ryan Murphy if she doesn't.

[tom87]

Michele, one L.

 

So Chris and Darren can be argued as breakouts as well do they have too much power?

[ShadowDenizen]

So Chris and Darren can be argued as breakouts as well do they have too much power?

 

I guess it depends on how you define "Too-Much".  Darren certainly is given leeway to pursue pet projects, as is Chris, where it seems that some others have had their wrists slapped for taking those liberties (anyone remember Mark Sallings' solo album, that came out around the time Puck was "written out" for a few episodes back in the early seasons?)

 

But, it also seems that Darren and Chris [along with Lea] toe the party line, for the most part.  I don't think I have heard Darren say anything negatvie about this show, not Lea.  Chris has made some snarky remarks, but they can be taken in good humor and not totally dispectful.

[Sara2009]

Darren likes to throw shade at Blaine, but that's about it. LOL

[caracas1914]

Kevin McHale was able to do an outside movie project with Dustin Hoffman and Kathey Bates this spring, it was the first time he missed a couple of Glee episodes.

The one actor who seemed demonstrably frustrated by his Glee commitment was Matt Morrison. He wasn't utilized in story lines for the most part and yet he was too entrenched with McKinley to let him be more stand alone guest star like Jane Lynch can be.

He's the only one who's actually voiced he would prefer to be off the show.

Edited May 19, 2014 by caracas1914

[Sara2009]

I think there's probably some behind the scenes tension between Matt and Ryan. From what I've heard, Matt loves all of his cast mates but dislikes Ryan for various reasons. This is all based on rumors, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's some truth to it.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sara2009

[caracas1914]

From what I understand, Matt Morrison didn't want to be on the Glee tours. Don't know if it means anything, but the "Will" character in the fictional TV show SING, clearly based on Glee in Ryan's cancelled NBC series "The New Normal" was mocked blatantly. He was portrayed as an ass kissing phony.

[tom87]

I guess it depends on how you define "Too-Much".  Darren certainly is given leeway to pursue pet projects, as is Chris, where it seems that some others have had their wrists slapped for taking those liberties (anyone remember Mark Sallings' solo album, that came out around the time Puck was "written out" for a few episodes back in the early seasons?)

 

But, it also seems that Darren and Chris [along with Lea] toe the party line, for the most part.  I don't think I have heard Darren say anything negatvie about this show, not Lea.  Chris has made some snarky remarks, but they can be taken in good humor and not totally dispectful.

If I remember right the rumor was Mark went against his contract via the deal they had with Columbia when he released his album.

 

As far as other projects Dianna, Kevin, and Matt also go thier schedules rework for other projects.  

[Sara2009]

From what I've heard(again rumors) Matt does NOT kiss up to Ryan, and that's part of the problem.

I think the "Glee" tours thing was just Matt wanting to establish himself apart from the show too. I don't fault him for that.

If I remember right the rumor was Mark went against his contract via the deal they had with Columbia when he released his album.

As far as other projects Dianna, Kevin, and Matt also go thier schedules rework for other projects.

They've also of course had to pass up good opportunities due to their "Glee" schedules. I'm sure that can be frustrating even though it's bound to happen sometimes.

[caracas1914]

Yea, the catch 22 is once they got a high profile because of Glee they were bound to get offers that conflicted with the Glee schedule. The irony is alot of times when a series ends, some of the offers dry up precisely because being in a TV show made the actor more desirable and now they don't have as much buzz.

[Sara2009]

Exactly. It wouldn't surprise me if Ryan was petty from time to time as well, though.

[Ltg.jon]

Why would Sam return to Lima?  He has no family there, and no particular job prospects.  And he only lived in the town for a couple of years, so he couldn't have established incredibly strong connections to it. 

[camussie]

If I had any FAITH in the writers instead of this nightmare, Rachel gets her stupid show and a whole NEW GUY gets the role of her LI in this stupid show.

 

 

For me any scenario where Rachel dates her LI (the Finn character) in a show about her life is just gross.  It being Sam would make it grosser but still any scenario where Rachel dates the dude playing the Finn character is just too much meta about the actors' lives and they should just stay away especially since one of the actors has passed.  

 

I am sure Rachel will move forward into a new relationship next year and I am one who thinks she should.  I just think they should stay away from having her date the character who was brought in, in season 2 as Finn 2.0 and stay away from having her date an actor who is playing "Finn" in her show.  

[aradia22]

I'm still on that Puckleberry bandwagon. I know it's not going to happen because Quinn and Puck have basically been sanctified as an official show couple but I think the groundwork is there. I think they did their best to torpedo Jesse and in the end it worked too well. Still, I'd love to see Jonathan Groff come back. Hey, maybe Jesse went to try his luck in L.A.! However if our choices are Sam or new guy (and not in a relationship is not an option) then yes, let's go with a new guy. Someone not too flashy because after the return of April and Holly and the Kristen Schaal writer character, I have no faith in this show's ability to write someone with a quirky personality. If they start by assuming he's boring, I think we'll be sort of safe.

[tom87]

Either a new guy or Jesse.

 

I guess it depend on time now.   At the very least I want to know she is dating and open to love again. 

 

Sam is at the bottom of the list with Jacob Ben Iseral.   Not that I have any real problem (besides being dumb down and going though every glee gilr) with Sam but the idea they are going to try to make him Finn-like is a no  no, just like her falling for her TV LI.

Edited May 20, 2014 by tom87

[Omnihelix]

Idle speculation: Rachel decides television isn't fulfilling either and ends up unemployable in Lima. She runs into Jesse and the two of them launch The Glee Whisperers.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Omnihelix

[CleoCaesar]

Jesse and Rachel, please! The only thing saving this trainwreck of a show is the chemistry between the original actors, and Lea and Groffles are adorable in real life. I didn't like Finn and hated Finchel, so even then Jesse seemed like the more attractive option. Jon Groff is moving up, though - I don't know if he'd be willing to come back to this 0.6 joke of a show.

[camussie]

In my ideal world, her new LI(Because I too think she should get one) has something to do with the show

 

 

I'm just the opposite.  In my ideal world Rachel ends up with someone outside of show business but who is successful in his own right.  Like a successful attorney or doctor or college professor.  Someone like Julianne Marguiles very hot successful wall street attorney husband.  I think having a love outside of the business could be a grounding force in Rachel's life.  

[Anna Yolei]

I have disliked Rachel since season one, She came across a person who gets what she wants and really doesn't care about who she needs to step on to get it. Quitting FG for a tv pilot seems exactly what Rachel would do. Why would she care if the show loses money without her? I hate to say it but I always though that she was a bitch (not to degrade female dogs).

I couldsee Rachel jumping ship from an off Broadway show to FG. But FG to TV? It's been mentioned msny times she had no interest or inkling of Hollywood. This was one of the only consistent piece of canon left from season one and the iic have took a diarrhea dump all over that.

The longer Glee runs, the more I think the WB did Popular a favor by canceling after two seasons before RM cpmpletely torpedoed that as well.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Anna Yolei