Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[YaddaYadda]

Agreed about James.  I didn't get the Regina-ripping pages comment either.  Did she mean she ripped out the story of her and the Stable Boy?  Because she was everywhere else in the Book.  How convenient that Hades was the last story, eh?

 

Someone pointed out to Adam that Henry is the one who ripped those pages out, not Regina, and Adam admitted that they made a mistake with that.

 

Also, Hades' story is in the Underbrooke story book, not in Henry's book. The Underbrooke version contains Liam's story (which maybe Emma should have read, and then shown it to her boyfriend), it also has Cruella in it.

[Curio]

Someone pointed out to Adam that Henry is the one who ripped those pages out, not Regina, and Adam admitted that they made a mistake with that.

 

The TV industry needs to create more writing specialty positions where the person's only job is to be the continuity consultant of a series and yells at writers when they screw up their own history.

[Rumsy4]

With so many writers in the room, you would think at least one of them would notice a continuity error. lol 

 

I do think they have a continuity person. Either they're not doing their job, or  the writers are ignoring their feedback.

[KingOfHearts]

I thought one of the writers was the continuity-checking person. A&E (or someone there) said they knew all about the show and did that sort of thing. I can't remember who it was though. 

[Curio]

I think I remember Jane mentioning in a tweet one time that Andrew Chambliss was their go-to continuity guy. Ideally, it should really be Adam or Eddy though since they're the ones who approve every script.

[Camera One]

Or they could... maybe have a computer in the Writers' Room where they can quickly look up info when they spew out their "Wouldn't it be cool if..."'s?

 

This latest episode... "Wouldn't it be cool if we found out Liam agreed to kill the entire crew of Captain Silver's ship?"

Edited March 31, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

It's a shame there isn't this magical thing called the Internet where you can find transcripts of every single episode for free to fact-check your past scripts...

[KingOfHearts]

 

It's a shame there isn't this magical thing called the Internet where you can find transcripts of every single episode for free to fact-check your past scripts...

Oh I know, right? I was watching the episode where Regina said she ripped out the pages and I was like "What? I thought that was Henry." I don't understand how a character could reference something like that without it being checked. How do you not remember stuff like that? It was a pretty major point of 1x02.

[Camera One]

It's the Underworld.  Memories work differently here.

[Curio]

In a way, I can kind of forgive continuity mistakes like that if it's within the same season because the writers are working at break-neck speeds and one writing team might forget to tell another writing team about certain details. (Kind of like how we got Hook forgetting that he was present for Belle's confession about Anna.) But with Regina claiming she tore out the pages, that detail happened seasons ago, so the writers should have been able to easily look up the episode transcript or re-watch the episode they were referencing before they wrote it into their script.

[KAOS Agent]

 

I was watching the episode where Regina said she ripped out the pages and I was like "What? I thought that was Henry." I don't understand how a character could reference something like that without it being checked. How do you not remember stuff like that? It was a pretty major point of 1x02.

 

it was actually the entire plot of Season 1. Henry read the book, which was all about his mother the Evil Queen and how she cast the curse so he went to find Emma the Saviour. Henry was carrying the book with him in the Pilot. Regina didn't even know about the book until Emma mentioned it. Regina ripping pages out makes zero sense in the context of the story because Henry had already read the entire book before she even knew it existed. There's continuity errors and then there's just a complete ignorance about the story your entire show is built on. And the writers for this episode have both been around since the beginning, so that's not an excuse either.

Edited March 31, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Delphi]

The show is on Netflix, if after an episode I can be bothered to go look up a continuity issue you'd think they could do it before filming said episode.

[Shanna Marie]

Yeah, I might roll my eyes at "netpickers" who blow a gasket because the writers didn't remember that a particular conversation in a minor scene four seasons ago happened at Granny's rather than in Regina's office, so Granny should have known about it instead of just now learning about it.

 

But we're talking here about the initiating incident of the entire series and a major part of the plot for the whole first season. Henry went in search of his birth mother in part because he believed she was the Savior who could break the curse, but also because he had learned that his adoptive mother was the Evil Queen. She was gaslighting him to make him think he was crazy to believe this about her and playing innocent -- how could anyone believe she was the Evil Queen when she'd done so much for him?

 

Have they mentally whitewashed Regina and Henry's relationship so much that they've forgotten he ever mistrusted her or had reason to mistrust her? And this is a backhanded whitewashing because it showed yet again how much she lied to him and deceived him.

[YaddaYadda]

The show is on Netflix, if after an episode I can be bothered to go look up a continuity issue you'd think they could do it before filming said episode.

 

I think it was their new writer who posted a pic of a library with all the scripts from all the episodes. So it's not like they can't go back and read it either.

 

In a rush? Google it. Who tore the EQ story out of Henry's book? They have iPhones? Maybe Siri has the answer. We live in a world of technology, it just proves how lazy their writing is.

[Curio]

Have they mentally whitewashed Regina and Henry's relationship so much that they've forgotten he ever mistrusted her or had reason to mistrust her? And this is a backhanded whitewashing because it showed yet again how much she lied to him and deceived him.

 

Maybe this belongs in the writers thread, but it's kind of like when you tell yourself a lie enough times, you actually start to believe it. The show has been whitewashing Regina's Season 1 actions for so long that the writers are finally starting to buy into it themselves.

[Shanna Marie]

The show has been whitewashing Regina's Season 1 actions for so long that the writers are finally starting to buy into it themselves.

Though I guess this does explain the season 4 narrative, in which Henry claims that the book was wrong about Regina (in spite of all his season one actions happening because he believed the book). If in their heads he never believed she was the Evil Queen and didn't know because she tore the pages out, then when he saw the book that came with Curse 2, he might have thought that the book had to be wrong.

 

Yet at the same time, they're still admitting that Regina lied to Henry. I guess they think they're explaining the relationship from his perspective, but I think it makes her look worse and demonstrates that their relationship is based on a foundation of deceit.

[DigitalCount]

Hook and Emma time-traveled once. That's what caused the change and any other continuity issues. This was clearly all planned out since Season 1, and we'll probably see some more issues arise in the same vein.

All according to plan.

[HoodlumSheep]

Hook and Emma time-traveled once. That's what caused the change and any other continuity issues. This was clearly all planned out since Season 1, and we'll probably see some more issues arise in the same vein.

All according to plan.

That's what I've chalked it up to. All the continuity errors (that happen after Snowing meet and part ways) is all CS's fault. :P

What's that? Regina giving Hook a potion to rip out Cora's heart is a continuity error? False. It would have been a continuity error had CS not messed with the time line. But in this slightly altered timeline, Regina clearly gave Hook a back-up potion (offscreen of course) in case the enchanted hook failed.

(<_<) (>_>)

[tri4335]

That's what I've chalked it up to. All the continuity errors (that happen after Snowing meet and part ways) is all CS's fault. :P

What's that? Regina giving Hook a potion to rip out Cora's heart is a continuity error? False. It would have been a continuity error had CS not messed with the time line. But in this slightly altered timeline, Regina clearly gave Hook a back-up potion (offscreen of course) in case the enchanted hook failed.

(<_<) (>_>)

 

By the end of the series, we'll find out that it really was Snowing who cast the curse that sent their daughter into the wardrobe and were secretly sabotaging Regina in Storybrooke!  :-P  It will be like Matthew in NewsRadio who was the only one who saw the Hamburgler, only Regina could see them running around causing her to do all the bad stuff. It really was David who crushed Graham's heart! 

Edited April 1, 2016 by tri4335

[Curio]

Hook and Emma time-traveled once. That's what caused the change and any other continuity issues. This was clearly all planned out since Season 1, and we'll probably see some more issues arise in the same vein.

 

Oh my gosh, I never realized how good of an excuse that is. A&E should honestly consider just using that for any continuity error prior to Hook and Emma's time travel adventure. (Still doesn't work for their continuity errors in Season 4 and beyond, though...)

[KAOS Agent]

 

Still doesn't work for their continuity errors in Season 4 and beyond, though...

 

Or any event that occurred prior to Hook & Emma's adventures in the past. The Leopold/Cora/Eva stuff is not changed by the things Hook & Emma did thirty years later.

[Rumsy4]

They can be explained by unexpected ripple effects of time-travel, the waves of which can be felt way back into the past and the future. In the S6 finale, a giant time-vortex will open in Storybrooke because the new time-line is unstable and starting to implode. S7 will be Planet of the Apes. Somebody fic it!!

[InsertWordHere]

I chalked up Hook and Regina's entire flashback in Swan Song to a time travel change. That's why he's wearing a different vest than he was in Queen of Hearts, because Smee told him he had changed his vest in Snow Drifts. High collared black velvet vest Hook never killed his father. It's all because of the concussion present Hook gave past Hook when he punched him. La la la.

[Rumsy4]

So, apparently, Dorothy is from fictional Kansas. Adam exposits on Twitter again. 

[Mari]

So, a "fictional Kansas realm." 

 

Does that mean the realm is Kansas everywhere? Because how would that even work?

 

Is it black and white in fictional Kansas realm?  Did we see fictional Kansas realm?

 

(And why do I think fictional Kansas has it's origins in "Oops.  I didn't think of that.  Again."?)

Edited April 8, 2016 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

So, apparently, Dorothy is from fictional Kansas. Adam exposits on Twitter again.

 

Why does every realm have to be fictional? Is it me or do A&E hate using the Land Without Magic? They seem to resent any form of realism that could possibly seep through the cracks. It would be ten times more interesting if Dorothy came from a backwards 70s/80s area and later saw herself in fiction. 

 

 

(And why do I think fictional Kansas has it's origins in "Oops.  I didn't think of that.  Again."?)

It's called "The writers don't want to figure out a timeline". So they just stuck her where time stood still.

 

Did every single realm make a CoraDome? If Oz, Wonderland, and Mist Haven were all domed, how do you explain Victorian England World? You could say that all magical realms were frozen in time, but then why did A&E have to state Zelena made her own dome? Hmm? If Dorothy comes back, they'll have to explain Fictional Kansas World too.

 

You know what would have been easier? If Dorothy had been from LWM, aged up during the curse, and came back later as a middle-aged adult. But I guess having all actresses in their 20s is a mandate strong enough to warrant twisting the timeline into a pretzel.

Edited April 8, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

Why did he want Jefferson to get him the slippers in The Doctor then? He had access to the hat and could use it to go anywhere except the LWM, including Neverland, which is where Bae actually was at the time. I doubt he'd let the hat rule stop him, especially as Regina easily circumvented that rule in Queen of Hearts with poor Claude's body. Was it just to stop Zelena from being able to travel to the Enchanted Forest?

Edited April 8, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[Camera One]

That's a good point.  The whole reason why the slippers seemed important in "It's Not Easy Being Green| was because it was assumed to be a way to get to Kansas in the Land Without Magic.  If Dorothy's Kansas was just another realm, then who cares about the slippers?

[Shanna Marie]

It's called "The writers don't want to figure out a timeline". So they just stuck her where time stood still.

And possibly they were trying to avoid the suggestion that there actually was something else other than the curse that allowed travel to the Land Without Magic. Even if the shoes were gone by the time Jefferson got there, that was about a century (depending on which timeline they're using this week) after Rumple started looking for Bae. And then there's however Dorothy got to Oz in the first place. If she's from Kansas World (yikes, imagine a whole world like Depression-era Kansas -- fun central) rather than our world, we don't have yet another person easily traveling back and forth while Rumple couldn't manage it.

 

Now, was Walsh/the Wizard from the same Kansas World? How did he get to Oz? And, come to think of it, how did he get to New York while the curse wasn't in effect and no one could travel between worlds?

[InsertWordHere]

And, come to think of it, how did he get to New York while the curse wasn't in effect and no one could travel between worlds?

I feel like this will never make sense. Perhaps he was already in this world and Zelena somehow sent him a message a couple months into the missing year? IIRC, they never explicitly said that Walsh was one of the monkeys Zelena had with her when she first attacked Regina and the Charmings in the Enchanted Forest. If she did send him a message, then how did she know where to find Emma? 

 

ETA: And shouldn't he have been sent back to his world automatically, if he is also from fictional Kansas? Whale wasn't from the EF and he was still sent back. Or did Walsh fall into the Cruella/Ursula exception clause? I feel like every new thing we learn says that Neal and Hook could have just stayed in our world if they wanted when the curse was undone. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[KingOfHearts]

 

And possibly they were trying to avoid the suggestion that there actually was something else other than the curse that allowed travel to the Land Without Magic.

Even though there were at least 8 other instances people arrived in the LWM from magical realms while the "walls were up". You're not fooling me, A&E.

 

 

we don't have yet another person easily traveling back and forth while Rumple couldn't manage it.

 

See, the writers like to plug up plot holes in very contrived and baffling ways. Instead of saying Dorothy came from the LWM (the obvious answer), they created an entirely new realm that didn't need to exist. If Rumple was an issue, then just say he wanted to bring magic with him. Problem solved. If someone in another realm was frozen during the curse, just say that magical realms were all frozen. Problem solved. If there's a Holy Grail lookalike, just call it a different grail. You don't need a Kansas World, a ZelenaDome or a freaking Titan Heart.

 

I love headcanon. It lets me disregard their tweets.

Edited April 8, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[daxx]

I feel like every new thing we learn says that Neal and Hook could have just stayed in our world if they wanted when the curse was undone.

Exactly, I even wrote my only MC fanfic because I couldn't get this thought out of my head.

[Shanna Marie]

And shouldn't he have been sent back to his world automatically, if he is also from fictional Kansas? Whale wasn't from the EF and he was still sent back. Or did Walsh fall into the Cruella/Ursula exception clause? I feel like every new thing we learn says that Neal and Hook could have just stayed in our world if they wanted when the curse was undone.

That would make it Cruella, Ursula, Lily, and possibly Walsh who were all from other worlds and were not sent back home when the curse was reversed. There's also the possibility of the Apprentice, since we don't know if he was in Storybrooke or went back to that world. And where did Ingrid go? Did she stay in our world? Go back to their world and hang out in frozen Arendelle until the next curse? The "everything associated with Storybrooke had to go, which was why Emma and Henry's memories had to be wiped" loophole doesn't even work with Lily, since she got the whole briefing on Storybrooke from the Apprentice, so she knew about Storybrooke and the curse. So there's no good reason that Neal and Hook couldn't have got into Emma's bug or Tamara's car and crossed the town line and stayed in our world.

 

And that would be the making of a sitcom, wouldn't it? Neal and Hook being roommates in Neal's New York apartment, with Hook having to learn about our world, and while they're friends, they're also in love with the same woman. She knows Neal from the time he impregnated and ditched her, but Hook is a stranger. Who wins, her first love who's the father of her child or the handsome foreigner who's an oddly familiar stranger?

 

On the other hand, Lily getting sucked back to the Enchanted Forest by the curse reverse would have made for a very interesting way for her to learn her true origins. Can you imagine being an ordinary person with no knowledge of magic, curses, etc., and suddenly you find yourself in a fairy tale land? Then she might have been brought to Storybrooke by curse 2, and that's how she and Emma were reunited.

[KingOfHearts]

The more I hear about what 3B could have been, the more I hate what it actually is.

[Camera One]

Not that it's a surprise, but did they say how Zelena got back to Storybrooke from Oz?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Not that it's a surprise, but did they say how Zelena got back to Storybrooke from Oz?

I can't imagine it being very difficult. Maybe she ripped the shoes off Dorothy, found a Last Magic Bean™, conjured a cyclone, teleported to Arendelle and used the door, or used one of those convenient curtain portals along the yellow brick road.

Edited April 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

It just makes Regina sending her to Oz in the 5A finale even more stupid.

[Rumsy4]

This tumblr is hilarious! It pokes fun at the lack of proper world-building in the Show.

[KingOfHearts]

 

This tumblr is hilarious! It pokes fun at the lack of proper world-building in the Show.

I'm not sure which is funnier. The posts or that Granny gif. 

 

 

I got locked up in the jail - okay, I deserved that - BUT then the entire police department ran off to another realm! There's no toilet in this cell, not that anyone would or knows to bring food anyway

Wow, I never thought of that. They've kept prisoners overnight, too.

Edited April 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

That Tumblr was funny.

 

I guess A&E would say the remaining Dwarves run the police department while our intrepid heroes are away.  The Mayor position seems even less important, I guess, since no one even tries to fill that role.  I guess Aurora/Philip, Cinderella/Thomas, Rapunzel, Eric, etc. and the other royalty aren't itching to lead or rule?  It would be interesting to see them on the city council, or something, anything, along with "common" people like Granny, etc...

Edited April 10, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

It would be interesting to see them on the city council, or something, anything...

I'd like to see Snowing's war council as the city council. That would be funny.

[InsertWordHere]

Moe French says Gaston is the eldest son of Lord something or other, but then later Gaston specifically says he'll be a king and unite their kingdoms when he marries Belle. What gives? Is Gaston's father influential enough to form his own kingdom? Is Gaston so ambitious that he was going to take over a kingdom?

[Rumsy4]

I guess the tornado brought Ruby to the Underworld. Whatever happened to needing the blood of Rumple to enter the Underworld? lol 

[Camera One]

Did you forget to take your Amnesia Draft like the rest of us?

[InsertWordHere]

I guess the tornado brought Ruby to the Underworld. Whatever happened to needing the blood of Rumple to enter the Underworld? lol 

Could Mulan's blood get Ruby to the Underworld? I'm assuming she's been there before on her offscreen adventure with Aurora to get Phillip's soul. 

[Rumsy4]

Did you forget to take your Amnesia Draft like the rest of us?

 

Oops, I forgot. Next time, I'll try to remember to take a forgetting potion. ;-)

Could Mulan's blood get Ruby to the Underworld? I'm assuming she's been there before on her offscreen adventure with Aurora to get Phillip's soul. 

 

Did they say someone who has been to the Underworld and returned, or someone who was dead and came back to life? If the former, the Nevengers can make tons of money selling their blood at a premium once they get back to Storybrooke. Everyone can go visit their loved ones. Daily tours can be arranged. hehe

[OnceUponAJen]

It looks like everyone is getting to the Underworld by various means. I'm telling myself it's because Hades wants them there.

[Camera One]

Was Red stuck as a Wolf or something?  Why would she continue to go after Snow, Emma, Hook and Co. as a Wolf, banging on the Vault door?  It makes no sense.

[YaddaYadda]

Was Red stuck as a Wolf or something?  Why would she continue to go after Snow, Emma, Hook and Co. as a Wolf, banging on the Vault door?  It makes no sense.

She didn't have her cloak, maybe she lost it during the twister, although there was no full moon. But it's not like she was looking to harm them. 

[Camera One]

Where did the cloak suddenly appear from later on?  Hopefully, they will explain next week, but the logical thing would be to walk around as Red to find her friends.  Her Wolfishness was an entire subplot of misdirect making us think it was one of Hades' monsters.