S11.E03: Plus One

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Batgirl said:

Also, I thought last week they couldn’t get into their FBI office . . . but this week, weren’t they back to being regular in-good-standing agents?

 

Like Luna said, the Russians aren't after them anymore so it's safe for them to go back.  The one that was the head of the crew told Mulder "Ain't you heard, FBI Mulder? You're on our side now" when he found them sneaking up the stairs.

 

1 hour ago, Batgirl said:

or “their” home— there’s a hint, Scully, that you might see each other outside of work— you know, by living together

HA!  I forgot about that part of the conversation.  Typical vague ridiculousness.  They've been seeing each other outside of work for what, 20-something years now?  

[ganesh]

I'm not a shipper, but it's laughable to deny that they haven't been in an adult relationship for years. One where Scully is clearly in charge. I thought this was canon at the second movie.

[Mama No Life]

Rewatching.

 

The look on Mulder's face when Scully suggests that he could meet someone younger and have kids is beautiful and painful.  He would never consider that.  And she just wanted to be reassured. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

4 minutes ago, Mama No Life said:

Rewatching.

 

The look on Mulder's face when Scully suggests that he could meet someone younger and have kids is beautiful and painful.  He would never consider that.  And she just wanted to be reassured. 

Word. And I respect both of their acting this go. I just... was kind of at a loss with the dialogue.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Just a pet peeve of mine, but we have another TV show conflating schizophrenia and Multiple Personality Disorder. The former of which is very common, and the latter of which is so rare that it may in fact be nonexistent (the most famous case studies having come under fire).

And seems to go out of its way to conflate "evil" and mentally ill as well.

I also found the mechanism of what the twins were doing to be hazy. It's hard to engage with the  challenge to defeat something that doesn't make sense anyway.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

39 minutes ago, Mama No Life said:

Rewatching.

 

The look on Mulder's face when Scully suggests that he could meet someone younger and have kids is beautiful and painful.  He would never consider that.  And she just wanted to be reassured. 

It was a wonderfully acted scene but I almost wanted to laugh when she said it. Because, seriously, the only time in 25 years that Mulder has even looked at another woman in a sexual way was a). when Scully was abducted, b). under the influence of two crazy teenage girls, and c). when he wasn't even Mulder, he was Morris Fletcher in Mulder's body.  Like, Scully, you have nothing to worry about there. 

Quote

I don’t understand the statements going around online that M & S “finally” had sex. Living together for years aside, they at least *think* they conceived William via sex, right? So how is this new?

Batgirl, I've found that reaction a little curious, too. I think that people are happy that the show is finally acknowledging it on screen, and therefore they get to claim, "it's now canon that Mulder and Scully have sex!" Which, after all of these years, I understand but even Chris Carter admitted a long time ago that they had sex in "all things" (and I personally believe they had sex before even then).

Edited January 18, 2018 by eleanorofaquitaine

[MissL]

1 hour ago, Mama No Life said:

Rewatching.

 

The look on Mulder's face when Scully suggests that he could meet someone younger and have kids is beautiful and painful.  He would never consider that.  And she just wanted to be reassured. 

Also rewatching. Yes that whole scene was lovely just ..I didn't always understand where it was coming from.

Also love the little smile Mulder gives himself in the bathroom mirror afterwards. He was so happy. But why did he have a shirt on? Just to have that little extra minute of the audience wondering if they had sex? 

I mean When he was changing in a panic to go get Chucky we got to see him shirtless and Duchovny ain't got nothing to be ashamed of that's for sure. 

[Batgirl]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I'm not a shipper, but it's laughable to deny that they haven't been in an adult relationship for years. One where Scully is clearly in charge. I thought this was canon at the second movie.

Right. Although, apparently, CC still doesn’t think they are romantically involved at present:

”I wouldn't call them romantic now. In Episode 3 there was a moment, a night, possibly a second night. Does that make them romantic or does that make them human? I think it just makes them human.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cinemablend.com/television/2285072/why-the-x-files-doesnt-play-up-mulder-and-scullys-romance

 

I agree with what someone said upthread— we really don’t need to see them talking about their relationship or kissing all the time.  Just let them be & solve cases  

 

Thanks to those who cleared up why they are back in their office  

[AntiBeeSpray]

9 minutes ago, MissL said:

Also rewatching. Yes that whole scene was lovely just ..I didn't always understand where it was coming from.

Also love the little smile Mulder gives himself in the bathroom mirror afterwards. He was so happy. But why did he have a shirt on? Just to have that little extra minute of the audience wondering if they had sex? 

I mean When he was changing in a panic to go get Chucky we got to see him shirtless and Duchovny ain't got nothing to be ashamed of that's for sure. 

Maybe only one person could be shirtless at a time lol. It was kind of silly really. 

 

8 minutes ago, Batgirl said:

Right. Although, apparently, CC still doesn’t think they are romantically involved at present:

”I wouldn't call them romantic now. In Episode 3 there was a moment, a night, possibly a second night. Does that make them romantic or does that make them human? I think it just makes them human.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cinemablend.com/television/2285072/why-the-x-files-doesnt-play-up-mulder-and-scullys-romance

 

I agree with what someone said upthread— we really don’t need to see them talking about their relationship or kissing all the time.  Just let them be & solve cases  

 

Thanks to those who cleared up why they are back in their office  

I don't know what he thinks... but what he said there is just ridiculous. /facepalm

Edited January 18, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[pagooey]

Someone upthread (sorry to be vague, I'm skimming at the office haha) said that Mulder and Scully were their first 'ship, and I feel like that's playing into my reactions this morning, too. They're my OTP, and the first relationship I was wholly invested in as a grown-ass woman myself--though I look back now and realize that I was practically a baby in 1993; GA is not quite a year older than I am. Anyway: I love them and I want them to be happy, and I understand that these are two mature people who have loved each other for decades, have weathered fights and huge losses and terrible grief and periodic estrangement, have risked and/or run for their lives...and in spite of everything, drift back to each other always, always, always. This is it; each of them is the be-all end-all for the other. And while their relationship is flavored with a lot more weirdness and flukemen and golems and psychic shenanigans, it's not unlike a marriage. It's a forever thing, a long, long, long-term thing. They might not be having room-wrecking, furniture-busting newbie sex on the daily, any more...but they know each other well enough to get it plenty right, these days. I adore them. Go git it, you two. 

As for the separate rooms/beds: I can easily believe that Scully still tries to maintain Professional Appearances while officially on a case. She's fooling no one, and this is far from her first wine-and-cheese fraternization party...I like to think that Mulder finds this hilarious and goes along with it. Though they could save the FBI a lotta money sharing, as he noted in an audit in, like, 1999? 

I also loved that Scully logicked her sinister doppleganger vision away, while Mulder had to engage in fisticuffs with his. Still sticking his fingers in everything, that one. 

And I liked their maudlin, rueful pillow talk; I think that was pure reassurance, for both. You're still it? Yeah? Good, me too. 

I do not want this particular little tryst to end up in a magical miracle pregnancy, though. That woman of science is pushing 54 by your calendar, Chris; I will accept all manner of paranormal alien hoo-ha, but these people are TIRED now, dude. Let them reunite and build a relationship with their actual teen child and call it good. 

[domina89]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

It was a wonderfully acted scene but I almost wanted to laugh when she said it. Because, seriously, the only time in 25 years that Mulder has even looked at another woman in a sexual way was a). when Scully was abducted, b). under the influence of two crazy teenage girls, and c). when he wasn't even Mulder, he was Morris Fletcher in Mulder's body.  Like, Scully, you have nothing to worry about there. 

You forgot about the teeth-grindingly annoying Phoebe Green in "Fire."  I chalk that one up to old times sake, though.

Edited January 18, 2018 by domina89

[ganesh]

Carter has no clue about his own show I swear. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

1 minute ago, ganesh said:

Carter has no clue about his own show I swear. 

Word. It's why I've deleted those dialogues and in part those bed scenes from my brain. So much potential, yet so much wasted. Oh well.

[ganesh]

He's the posterboy for explaining things after the fact. Nowadays it's so much easier with online media, but he's been doing it since the show first aired. I remember him saying that they didn't need a show bible because it's all in his head. I was dumb enough to believe everything was going to work out until S4 I think. I was laughing when Lost came out by like episode 3 and everyone was gushing about it. I was like, dude, it's already a total mess. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

9 minutes ago, ganesh said:

He's the posterboy for explaining things after the fact. Nowadays it's so much easier with online media, but he's been doing it since the show first aired. I remember him saying that they didn't need a show bible because it's all in his head. I was dumb enough to believe everything was going to work out until S4 I think. I was laughing when Lost came out by like episode 3 and everyone was gushing about it. I was like, dude, it's already a total mess. 

Yep. And frankly I still laugh at the fact that he thinks that he doesn't need one. The show is beyond saving now.

[DaynaPhile]

Awwww, I liked it. I heard ahead of time that CC wrote it so I had braced myself thinking it would be awful. Pleasantly surprised, it was very good. Awkward conversations about having children notwithstanding. CC just doesn’t know how to write people in a long term relationship. The coyness about the sex was stupid...aren’t they living together?

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, pagooey said:

I do not want this particular little tryst to end up in a magical miracle pregnancy, though. That woman of science is pushing 54 by your calendar, Chris; I will accept all manner of paranormal alien hoo-ha, but these people are TIRED now, dude.

Same here; Gillian is younger, and looks even younger than she is, but Dana Scully is a month away from 54.  One "how the hell did that happen?" pregnancy is enough for her, thank you.

13 minutes ago, DaynaPhile said:

CC just doesn’t know how to write people in a long term relationship.

I think he doesn't know how to do that in general, and it's compounded by his continued insistence on either denying or playing coy with the reality of this particular relationship, because he has long refused to accept that reality.  Your characters fell in love and had sex long ago, Chris; just let it be.

[Taryn74]

You know, I totally hear you guys when it comes to CC being so tone deaf regarding the M/S relationship (and I certainly agree) but at the same time there's something about it that just feels so right about all of it this season, it makes me giddy.  I guess because this is precisely the way he's always written M/S that it just feels like them.  I don't know if I'm making any sense, but it's like even if you have to take the actual words they're saying with a grain of salt, their body language screams 'we are who we are, we are who we've always been, we are who we always will be.'

Other than they've obviously aged and some plot changes, you could plop these last couple of episodes down right in the middle of season 7 (after the actors decided to start playing their roles as if they had begun sleeping together) and not miss a beat IMO.  The flirting, the innuendos, their comfort with one another . . . that has not changed.  Not at all.

Season 10 feels stilted and suffocating in comparison.

[AntiBeeSpray]

1 hour ago, DaynaPhile said:

Awwww, I liked it. I heard ahead of time that CC wrote it so I had braced myself thinking it would be awful. Pleasantly surprised, it was very good. Awkward conversations about having children notwithstanding. CC just doesn’t know how to write people in a long term relationship. The coyness about the sex was stupid...aren’t they living together?

I agree with you about the coyness about the sex. It was annoying. I liked the case for what it's worth though. Just not... the convos.

 

33 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

You know, I totally hear you guys when it comes to CC being so tone deaf regarding the M/S relationship (and I certainly agree) but at the same time there's something about it that just feels so right about all of it this season, it makes me giddy.  I guess because this is precisely the way he's always written M/S that it just feels like them.  I don't know if I'm making any sense, but it's like even if you have to take the actual words they're saying with a grain of salt, their body language screams 'we are who we are, we are who we've always been, we are who we always will be.'

Other than they've obviously aged and some plot changes, you could plop these last couple of episodes down right in the middle of season 7 (after the actors decided to start playing their roles as if they had begun sleeping together) and not miss a beat IMO.  The flirting, the innuendos, their comfort with one another . . . that has not changed.  Not at all.

Season 10 feels stilted and suffocating in comparison.

I agree with you there.

In regards to CC's eps in s10 -- hard same. It was bad.

Edited January 18, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[Bastet]

33 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

it's like even if you have to take the actual words they're saying with a grain of salt, their body language screams 'we are who we are, we are who we've always been, we are who we always will be.'

Because David and Gillian have always saved Mulder and Scully from Chris's worst impulses.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I think he doesn't know how to do that in general, and it's compounded by his continued insistence on either denying or playing coy with the reality of this particular relationship, because he has long refused to accept that reality.  Your characters fell in love and had sex long ago, Chris; just let it be.

I do think there was a legit problem for part of the run of the show that he didn't want the leads to be overtly involved because it is kind of a cliche. I certainly didn't ship them. But unlike CC, I grew up, and I think that's what he failed to do. I was more ticked when it was implied they were together in S7 because I was like, 'where did this come from?' It wasn't any organic character development. "oh, they know each other so well it just happened." That's not fair either and it's hacky. Then from there it just got worse. 

Someone really needed to get in there S4 or S5 and say, "this show can go on for another 2, 3 years at least. This relationship needs to evolve somehow and we need to develop that." 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

2 hours ago, domina89 said:

You forgot about the teeth-grindingly annoying Phoebe Green in "Fire."  I chalk that one up to old times sake, though.

Ugh, thanks for reminding me. In that case, yup, I just think that was residual puppy love. 

3 hours ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Maybe only one person could be shirtless at a time lol. It was kind of silly really. 

 

Like I said, I think that was in part a call back to "all things," but also, I think it was a little misdirection, so that when we wouldn't really have confirmation until saw Scully's bare shoulders (and until Mulder made his afterglow comment). 

51 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Because David and Gillian have always saved Mulder and Scully from Chris's worst impulses.

Eh, I can't go there with you guys.  I have hated the coyness previously, but this didn't feel coy to me, and like I said above, Carter has given the series and the characters some of its most indelible intimate moments. I actually think he writes Mulder and Scully's emotionally intimate moments really well - he gets the fundamental love they have for each other and what they mean to each other.  Certainly David Duchovney and Gillian Anderson translate those moments incredibly well, too, so I am not saying that they are unimportant to the process, but I think it isn't fair to say that they have saved the character from his worst impulses. 

I do think his weirdness around their sexual relationship has hindered the writing, both in the past and currently, but I think he gets their emotional relationship. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

5 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Ugh, thanks for reminding me. In that case, yup, I just think that was residual puppy love. 

Like I said, I think that was in part a call back to "all things," but also, I think it was a little misdirection, so that when we wouldn't really have confirmation until saw Scully's bare shoulders (and until Mulder made his afterglow comment). 

Eh, I can't go there with you guys.  I have hated the coyness previously, but this didn't feel coy to me, and like I said above, Carter has given the series and the characters some of its most indelible intimate moments. I actually think he writes Mulder and Scully's emotionally intimate moments really well - he gets the fundamental love they have for each other and what they mean to each other.  Certainly David Duchovney and Gillian Anderson translate those moments incredibly well, too, so I am not saying that they are unimportant to the process, but I think it isn't fair to say that they have saved the character from his worst impulses. 

I do think his weirdness around their sexual relationship has hindered the writing, both in the past and currently, but I think he gets their emotional relationship. 

Fair point. 

Maybe. But he crashed and burned in my opinion with this. The dialogue was terrible.

I agree about the writing. As for emotional, more so back in the day. Now not so much.

This ep is not one I'll most likely be re watching. Any good writing aside.

Edited January 19, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[festivus]

19 hours ago, catrox14 said:

And I need my damn Supernatural/XFiles Xover already

I did notice that supernatural was one of the words in the headline about the lawyer and that his first name was Dean. I think that's about as close as we're going to get. ;)

I wanted to say something about Scully questioning herself with the too old comments but I can't get my thoughts together right now. Maybe later. Otherwise, I enjoyed the episode.

[Mama No Life]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Because David and Gillian have always saved Mulder and Scully from Chris's worst impulses.

We really could just stop here.  Yep.  Nothing else needs to be added.  

[domina89]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I do think his weirdness around their sexual relationship has hindered the writing, both in the past and currently, but I think he gets their emotional relationship. 

I agree.  I think the thing that has annoyed me the most about the writing of their relationship is that I wish Chris Carter had just decided on a path and stuck with it consistently.  If he didn't want them together romantically, fine, but don't play coy with the shippers and throw all these hints out there and then disappoint them over and over.  If he did decide to put them together romantically, then show it and develop that aspect of their relationship in a natural way.  It is like he's always wanted the best of both worlds without committing to either and it has become a very tired game at this point.  It is unfair to the viewers, but, more importantly, it is unfair and stifling to the development of these wonderful characters. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

19 minutes ago, domina89 said:

I agree.  I think the thing that has annoyed me the most about the writing of their relationship is that I wish Chris Carter had just decided on a path and stuck with it consistently.  If he didn't want them together romantically, fine, but don't play coy with the shippers and throw all these hints out there and then disappoint them over and over.  If he did decide to put them together romantically, then show it and develop that aspect of their relationship in a natural way.  It is like he's always wanted the best of both worlds without committing to either and it has become a very tired game at this point.  It is unfair to the viewers, but, more importantly, it is unfair and stifling to the development of these wonderful characters. 

I could hug this post. It's in part, one part of the reason why I'm not bothering with this episode again. It was one big you know what tease. And that kind of thing has gotten past old. Like what you said above. Two words, Chris: grow up. Definitely. It's such a waste and a shame. 'This' showed what those characters could be, and 'Plus One' just showed the same old song and dance.

[phalange]

Though the end of the first episode left a bad taste in my mouth, the second and third were great. If I had to, I'd give the edge to this one, because it really felt MOTW-y. Props to the actress, because I didn't even realize until later that she was playing both twins. It wasn't explained how the twins ended up with this "power" but I didn't really care too much because it was compelling enough regardless. We saw the papers with "mom" and "dad" and I am curious about why they killed their parents, however. Just because they could?

I did love the scenes with Mulder and Scully in the hotel, though I found it a little silly they were sleeping separately when last week it was heavily implied they're living together. Maybe it was done as a way to build up to the "will you hold me?" scene. Or CC just really likes toying with us. 

[Helena Dax]

If CC doesn't  really want M/S to become the focus of the show, this kind of M/S scenes aren't helping his case. Like most of you, I had assumed they were back together at last since last episode and I was surprised when we found out they apparently weren't. This revelation was way more interesting than anything else in the episode.

[EUROTRASH]

I really enjoyed the episode, thought it was much better than "This", and at times it reminded me of the original series, which I rarely felt during the revival. Despite all of that, it's a very flawed episode.

- Mulder and Scully who have been in a true romantic relationship are being reduced to friends with benefits, with some really awkward dialogue.

- Scully's again being reset to the Uberskeptic stage, not only questioning but completely ruling out the existence of ghosts (Beyond the Sea, One Breath, The Calusari, Elegy, Christmas Carol, How the Ghosts Stole Christmas, Amor Fati, This Is Not Happening, All Souls, Milagro, etc.), and the existence of evil (Irresistible, Orison, etc.), yet at the same time swallowing some random pills given to her by a psychopath schizophrenic.

- Mulder finds Judy simply by looking at a random patient in a hospital.

- A fairly abrupt ending with zero explanation provided as to what gave these twins the incredible powers that they have, or why they're doing what they're doing.

- The lack of a writers room is clearly showing. Lack of coherence between the episodes. Glen's M&S are totally different from CC's M&S, and it's quite irritating. What's going on with these two? Are they living together? The previous episode sends mixed signals although it's leaning more towards yes, while in this episode you could safely say no. And Darin's episode next week could have another different version of their relationship, almost as if each writer has their own head canon. At this point the relationship is almost as incoherent as the mythology. That said, "Plus One" could have worked better in that regard if it had aired prior to "This".

Overall, it was a solid idea, a very well directed episode with terrific acting by Karin Konoval, and had great moments, at times really reminding me of classic "MOTW" X-Files. Definitely my favorite one from S11 so far. After "Founder's Mutation" (S10) it's my favorite episode of the revival. Of course it doesn't compare to XF greats from the original series.

[Rushmoras]

I liked this episode better than the second one, bus still somewhere in the middle kinda lost interest. I don't know, either there's too much action going on and the camera is everywhere, or there is no action going on and you fall asleep.

[AntiBeeSpray]

27 minutes ago, EUROTRASH said:

I really enjoyed the episode, thought it was much better than "This", and at times it reminded me of the original series, which I rarely felt during the revival. Despite all of that, it's a very flawed episode.

- Mulder and Scully who have been in a true romantic relationship are being reduced to friends with benefits, with some really awkward dialogue.

- Scully's again being reset to the Uberskeptic stage, not only questioning but completely ruling out the existence of ghosts (Beyond the Sea, One Breath, The Calusari, Elegy, Christmas Carol, How the Ghosts Stole Christmas, Amor Fati, This Is Not Happening, All Souls, Milagro, etc.), and the existence of evil (Irresistible, Orison, etc.), yet at the same time swallowing some random pills given to her by a psychopath schizophrenic.

- Mulder finds Judy simply by looking at a random patient in a hospital.

- A fairly abrupt ending with zero explanation provided as to what gave these twins the incredible powers that they have, or why they're doing what they're doing.

- The lack of a writers room is clearly showing. Lack of coherence between the episodes. Glen's M&S are totally different from CC's M&S, and it's quite irritating. What's going on with these two? Are they living together? The previous episode sends mixed signals although it's leaning more towards yes, while in this episode you could safely say no. And Darin's episode next week could have another different version of their relationship, almost as if each writer has their own head canon. At this point the relationship is almost as incoherent as the mythology. That said, "Plus One" could have worked better in that regard if it had aired prior to "This".

Overall, it was a solid idea, a very well directed episode with terrific acting by Karin Konoval, and had great moments, at times really reminding me of classic "MOTW" X-Files. Definitely my favorite one from S11 so far. After "Founder's Mutation" (S10) it's my favorite episode of the revival. Of course it doesn't compare to XF greats from the original series.

I liked 'This' better, for the reason you mentioned above. That M and S's relationship was reduced to friends with benefits. That felt more like a slap in the face to me, even though in part I could get where it was coming from.

I think she was joking there in part, given how long they've been partners.

Definitely. Agreed. It would have worked out better if it was switched around. Would have made far more sense.

 

12 hours ago, phalange said:

Though the end of the first episode left a bad taste in my mouth, the second and third were great. If I had to, I'd give the edge to this one, because it really felt MOTW-y. Props to the actress, because I didn't even realize until later that she was playing both twins. It wasn't explained how the twins ended up with this "power" but I didn't really care too much because it was compelling enough regardless. We saw the papers with "mom" and "dad" and I am curious about why they killed their parents, however. Just because they could?

I did love the scenes with Mulder and Scully in the hotel, though I found it a little silly they were sleeping separately when last week it was heavily implied they're living together. Maybe it was done as a way to build up to the "will you hold me?" scene. Or CC just really likes toying with us. 

I liked the MOTW of this, but the reduction of their relationship has me keeping this ep below 'This'. I just like when their relationship is treated with some actual respect and not just cheap lip service.

I think it's the latter in part given how CC tends to view shippers.

Edited January 19, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[EUROTRASH]

2 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

I liked 'This' better, for the reason you mentioned above. That M and S's relationship was reduced to friends with benefits. That felt more like a slap in the face to me, even though in part I could get where it was coming from.

I think she was joking there in part, given how long they've been partners.

Definitely. Agreed. It would have worked out better if it was switched around. Would have made far more sense.

I didn't like "This", but I totally understand why some people love it. It really gets a 10/10 when it comes to M&S interaction / banter. Otherwise I found it a totally non-XF-like episode in many ways, just flashy with senseless action. The graveyard sequence and Deep Throat reference was cool though.

Hmm... I don't think Scully was joking. They have always reset her skepticism almost back to day one. They only made her more of a believer during S8 and S9 because they needed someone to work against Doggett's skepticism.

Yes, "Plus One" airing before "This" would have made more sense.

Technically it's a well done episode though despite the flaws, especially if you put the relationship stuff aside. And it was very competently directed by Kevin Hooks.

[AntiBeeSpray]

9 minutes ago, EUROTRASH said:

I didn't like "This", but I totally understand why some people love it. It really gets a 10/10 when it comes to M&S interaction / banter. Otherwise I found it a totally non-XF-like episode in many ways, just flashy with senseless action. The graveyard sequence and Deep Throat reference was cool though.

Hmm... I don't think Scully was joking. They have always reset her skepticism almost back to day one. They only made her more of a believer during S8 and S9 because they needed someone to work against Doggett's skepticism.

Yes, "Plus One" airing before "This" would have made more sense.

Technically it's a well done episode though despite the flaws, especially if you put the relationship stuff aside. And it was very competently directed by Kevin Hooks.

Ah. Yea and it made sense. 'Plus One' I could see why people liked it too, but the dialogue just wrecked it for me.

Maybe.

To a point. Frankly I'd love to forget that it EVER happened.

[Taryn74]

11 minutes ago, EUROTRASH said:

Hmm... I don't think Scully was joking. They have always reset her skepticism almost back to day one.

I don't think Scully was "joking" about not believing in ghosts, etc but I don't think they reset her skepticism either.  She was just doing what she does, providing rational explanations to counter Mulder's more paranormal theories.

After all, she did go to Judy's room and confront her about the killings, implying she believed Judy had something to do with it, even though Judy never got to leave her room and her brother never came to visit her other than telepathically.

[welnoc]

Okay, I don't know why the twins did what they did but I assumed it wasn't actually the twins in a sense. In killing their parents each twin took on the persona of a parent; the two miserable, irascible personas and the twins themselves were arrested in their development when Mom & Dad died, the two childlike personas. Guilt maybe?

And this a show about the supernatural so there is no really logical explanation for why things happen. Maybe playing hangman was a comfort to the twins and an escape from abusive parents until the twins couldn't take it anymore and intense emotion and the psychical connection that exists between twins cause their "ability" to come alive.

Maybe Mulder is drawn to what appears to be unlikely leaps of logic because he himself has some sort of latent supernatural power.

It's fiction, make up whatever you want.

[tennisgurl]

I am right there with you Mulder, you need to get back to your bread and butter. Avoid that boring conspiracy crap, and get to the MOTW and Mulder/Scully cuteness! 

Even though I didn't totally "get" how the twins were killing people or why they were killing people (including their parents) I still enjoyed the mystery, and found the evil twins to be sufficiently creepy. Both the actual murder twins, and the duplicates. The actress did a great job playing both twins, and being super creepy as Demon Judy. I would have taken the bread pills too! It at least leaves the audience with some questions they can ponder, which is sometimes better than an explanation if its a lame one. 

Yeah, I feel like Carter writers Mulder and Scully as platonic good soul mates, while every other writer, as well as David and Gillian, consider them a romantic couple. I mean, that ending was 100% couple, even after they were sleeping in different beds at the beginning. Maybe they just try to keep it professional on the job? I dont know, I was just happy to get real Mulder/Scully time this week, complete with cuddles and some implied adult cuddles in off screen land. I honestly have never thought that they weren't sleeping together for awhile, its not even an if to me. 

I know Scully is the skeptic, and thats usually fine, but, Scully, YOU'VE MET ACTUAL GHOSTS BEFORE! Its really a problem having a character to say "I am sure there is a logical explanation for all of this" every week when, for the entire shows run, its almost always something weird and supernatural. After several run ins with ghosts, aliens, witches, genies, monsters, psychics, demons, self aware AIs, magic, more aliens, and Toomes, you would think she would be a bit more open to these things by now. 

[EUROTRASH]

34 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I don't think Scully was "joking" about not believing in ghosts, etc but I don't think they reset her skepticism either.  She was just doing what she does, providing rational explanations to counter Mulder's more paranormal theories.

After all, she did go to Judy's room and confront her about the killings, implying she believed Judy had something to do with it, even though Judy never got to leave her room and her brother never came to visit her other than telepathically.

I really don't see it that way. They reset her skepticism in the past plenty of times, even in "The Beginning" right after FtF. You can have a believer/skeptic dynamic along with scientific dialogue without having her outright dismissing the existence of ghosts. After having her heart almost ripped out by a deceased Brazilian psychic surgeon -- among many other things -- her "skepticism" can be far better written. And a devout Catholic who has called Donnie Pfaster plain evil is discounting the existence of evil? Not to mention numerous other experiences? No, the dialogue was just wrong.

[AntiBeeSpray]

21 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I am right there with you Mulder, you need to get back to your bread and butter. Avoid that boring conspiracy crap, and get to the MOTW and Mulder/Scully cuteness! 

Even though I didn't totally "get" how the twins were killing people or why they were killing people (including their parents) I still enjoyed the mystery, and found the evil twins to be sufficiently creepy. Both the actual murder twins, and the duplicates. The actress did a great job playing both twins, and being super creepy as Demon Judy. I would have taken the bread pills too! It at least leaves the audience with some questions they can ponder, which is sometimes better than an explanation if its a lame one. 

Yeah, I feel like Carter writers Mulder and Scully as platonic good soul mates, while every other writer, as well as David and Gillian, consider them a romantic couple. I mean, that ending was 100% couple, even after they were sleeping in different beds at the beginning. Maybe they just try to keep it professional on the job? I dont know, I was just happy to get real Mulder/Scully time this week, complete with cuddles and some implied adult cuddles in off screen land. I honestly have never thought that they weren't sleeping together for awhile, its not even an if to me. 

I know Scully is the skeptic, and thats usually fine, but, Scully, YOU'VE MET ACTUAL GHOSTS BEFORE! Its really a problem having a character to say "I am sure there is a logical explanation for all of this" every week when, for the entire shows run, its almost always something weird and supernatural. After several run ins with ghosts, aliens, witches, genies, monsters, psychics, demons, self aware AIs, magic, more aliens, and Toomes, you would think she would be a bit more open to these things by now. 

Maybe that would have worked in s7. But now... it made me kind of cringe. Maybe... but implied adult cuddles... so over it (I mean it in a general way for what it's worth and not a selfish one). We had it three other times. Requiem, The Truth and IWTB. All of which I found to be better in some ways than what we got here. I think it's in part due to the dialogue. The reason why I loved IWTB's the most, is that there was some physicality there. It made it for me. What was there this time? Apart from some flirting and spooning and some forgettable CC dialogue... not much. It felt like a step back to me and I was not thrilled.

Edited January 19, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I am being perfectly honest when I say I kind of don't get what some here want?  This is an episode, written by Chris Carter no less, in which it is 100% confirmed as canon that Mulder and Scully have sex, in which they talk about growing old together, in which they exchange emotional intimacy at a level where they haven't previously... and yet it is somehow seen as a downgrading of the relationship?  I honestly don't get it. The show isn't going to be fan fic - episodes aren't going to be written with the sole purpose of M&S having sex. And yet, this one kind of was, and some here seem to hate it.

I get that a lot of people just dislike Carter, at this point. And IMO, it is hit or miss - this one was more of a hit than miss for me, but I understand not everyone shares my feeling.  But I also sort of feel like there are those who will find a reason to criticize him no matter what he does, and I don't know, it is difficult to have a discussion when every mention of his name just results in a litany of why he sucks.  I suppose it is on me to just ignore that, though.

[AntiBeeSpray]

10 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I am being perfectly honest when I say I kind of don't get what some here want?  This is an episode, written by Chris Carter no less, in which it is 100% confirmed as canon that Mulder and Scully have sex, in which they talk about growing old together, in which they exchange emotional intimacy at a level where they haven't previously... and yet it is somehow seen as a downgrading of the relationship?  I honestly don't get it. The show isn't going to be fan fic - episodes aren't going to be written with the sole purpose of M&S having sex. And yet, this one kind of was, and some here seem to hate it.

I get that a lot of people just dislike Carter, at this point. And IMO, it is hit or miss - this one was more of a hit than miss for me, but I understand not everyone shares my feeling.  But I also sort of feel like there are those who will find a reason to criticize him no matter what he does, and I don't know, it is difficult to have a discussion when every mention of his name just results in a litany of why he sucks.  I suppose it is on me to just ignore that, though.

IWTB was probably the closest for me. So I guess... it depends. If it weren't for how the dialogue went in part, I probably wouldn't mind it as much. Friends with benefits is just sleeping together occasionally and after all this time it seems like a downgrade.

So it really is, to each their own.

But here's the thing, fans don't ever expect it to be. I don't either. Is it a bad thing to want the characters to be treated with some respect and for things to not feel cheap? So for me, 'This' was more of a hit.

I'm glad that you can appreciate it for what it is though and I wish I could say the same.

And here's the thing, back in the day... I liked what he wrote. Really. All the way to season 9. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[Happy Harpy]

"It's complicated" sums-up my relationship with the X-Files right now.

MSR was acknowledged long ago as far as I'm concerned. Even if you discount IWTB, wasn't  Mulder getting out the shower and kissing Scully holding William in the S8 finale, or Mulder and Scully sucking faces in front of freaking Skinner of all people in "The Truth", or ending up in bed and cuddling at the end of the original run, not enough?

That's why I completely agree about the state of their relationship more fitting S5-S7 than where they are right now. The balance of insecurities wasn't quite right to me either. But at the same time, I will never not enjoy MSR goodness. And the last thirty seconds, complete with perfect comedic timing, rank quite very very high in my favorite MSR scenes ever. As I said, it's complicated.

[EUROTRASH]

26 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I am being perfectly honest when I say I kind of don't get what some here want?  This is an episode, written by Chris Carter no less, in which it is 100% confirmed as canon that Mulder and Scully have sex, in which they talk about growing old together, in which they exchange emotional intimacy at a level where they haven't previously... and yet it is somehow seen as a downgrading of the relationship?  I honestly don't get it. The show isn't going to be fan fic - episodes aren't going to be written with the sole purpose of M&S having sex. And yet, this one kind of was, and some here seem to hate it.

I get that a lot of people just dislike Carter, at this point. And IMO, it is hit or miss - this one was more of a hit than miss for me, but I understand not everyone shares my feeling.  But I also sort of feel like there are those who will find a reason to criticize him no matter what he does, and I don't know, it is difficult to have a discussion when every mention of his name just results in a litany of why he sucks.  I suppose it is on me to just ignore that, though.

I'm not a shipper, but I post at a shipper-board (Haven) and I'll try to help you understand. I also sympathize with many shippers at this point.

What many fans want is just a mature, romantic relationship, pretty much exactly how it was portrayed in the second movie, IWTB. They see anything else as being out of character, especially S10 implying that Mulder's depression was a major cause for the break-up. Let's face it, we're talking about a duo that went through hell and back, lived together, and had a child together. Nothing was able to separate them, so it's pretty odd that Mulder's "depression" would do it.

Furthermore, the estrangement itself brought nothing to S10. All those episodes would have flown in the same manner if M&S had been a couple. It added nothing to the plots of the individual episodes. Founder's Mutation shows them at the end of the episode in separate residences, and if that wasn't there, no one would know they're apart if they hadn't seen the episode prior. The break-up just contributed nothing to the revival. It only caused controversy and outrage. And then on top of that you have CC's "platonic" comment during last season pissing people off.

But, after S11 was officially announced, many of those shippers gave CC the benefit of the doubt again, and expected that S11 will be totally different. Well, the second episode (written by Glen Morgan) sent mixed signals, as there is evidence for both them living together and not living together, although it's leaning more towards the former. But when it comes to the third episode (written by Chris Carter), many feel that M&S are portrayed as "F" buddies / friends with benefits. The dialogue, to many, is extremely awkward, and even the afterglow comment is almost as if Mulder picked up someone at the bar only to have sex with.

Shippers, in general, are just sick and tired of childish games. They think the characters, and the series itself, both deserve much better.

And here's the most recent quote from CC about the relationship:

"I wouldn't call them romantic now. In episode 3 there was a moment, a night, possibly a second night. Does that make them romantic or does that make them human? I think it just makes them human." - Chris Carter

Source: https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2285072/why-the-x-files-doesnt-play-up-mulder-and-scullys-romance

[AntiBeeSpray]

11 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

"It's complicated" sums-up my relationship with the X-Files right now.

MSR was acknowledged long ago as far as I'm concerned. Even if you discount IWTB, wasn't  Mulder getting out the shower and kissing Scully holding William in the S8 finale, or Mulder and Scully sucking faces in front of freaking Skinner of all people in "The Truth", or ending up in bed and cuddling at the end of the original run, not enough?

That's why I completely agree about the state of their relationship more fitting S5-S7 than where they are right now. The balance of insecurities wasn't quite right to me either. But at the same time, I will never not enjoy MSR goodness. And the last thirty seconds, complete with perfect comedic timing, rank quite very very high in my favorite MSR scenes ever. As I said, it's complicated.

Oh I am with you on that.

That's good. But since when is it bad to want for a kiss? It isn't much more though. Heck my bar was underwater when it came to this episode.

Definitely! It seems as if CC was trying to make up for that.

[Happy Harpy]

8 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Oh I am with you on that.

That's good. But since when is it bad to want for a kiss? It isn't much more though. Heck my bar was underwater when it came to this episode.

If it's bad to want for a kiss, Santa won't visit me next Christmas. I did roll my eyes at them not showing one. As if they didn't before! 

The way it was hyped, I thought they might go HBO on this one, and they didn't even score a Hallmark. ( Should I LOL or *sigh*?)

[AntiBeeSpray]

9 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

If it's bad to want for a kiss, Santa won't visit me next Christmas. I did roll my eyes at them not showing one. As if they didn't before! 

The way it was hyped, I thought they might go HBO on this one, and they didn't even score a Hallmark. ( Should I LOL or *sigh*?)

Lol I know! XD I rolled my eyes at that too. I saw an interview recently where Kevin Hooks said that they didn't go any further since it was meant to serve the story (para-phrasing here). Talk about a load full of bs. Along with everyone being ok with that lol. DD and GA being ok ... maybe -- but damn those two can be blue and risque... so I'm doubting that one hard -- and I went 'sure Jan' after hearing about it.

Word. And it's no wonder it was rather disappointing. But heck... I was expecting just something that would at least live up to the S rating. Nothing hard core, but something. And ended up with... ??? (that was it?)

It wasn't even remotely memorable. Could appreciate David and Gillian bringing their best to it though. It's just too bad that it's like a bad date, one where I'll wake up the next day wanting to forget it.

Edited January 19, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[eleanorofaquitaine]

33 minutes ago, EUROTRASH said:

I'm not a shipper, but I post at a shipper-board (Haven) and I'll try to help you understand. I also sympathize with many shippers at this point.

What many fans want is just a mature, romantic relationship, pretty much exactly how it was portrayed in the second movie, IWTB. They see anything else as being out of character, especially S10 implying that Mulder's depression was a major cause for the break-up. Let's face it, we're talking about a duo that went through hell and back, lived together, and had a child together. Nothing was able to separate them, so it's pretty odd that Mulder's "depression" would do it.

Furthermore, the estrangement itself brought nothing to S10. All those episodes would have flown in the same manner if M&S had been a couple. It added nothing to the plots of the individual episodes. Founder's Mutation shows them at the end of the episode in separate residences, and if that wasn't there, no one would know they're apart if they hadn't seen the episode prior. The break-up just contributed nothing to the revival. It only caused controversy and outrage. And then on top of that you have CC's "platonic" comment during last season pissing people off.

But, after S11 was officially announced, many of those shippers gave CC the benefit of the doubt again, and expected that S11 will be totally different. Well, the second episode (written by Glen Morgan) sent mixed signals, as there is evidence for both them living together and not living together, although it's leaning more towards the former. But when it comes to the third episode (written by Chris Carter), many feel that M&S are portrayed as "F" buddies / friends with benefits. The dialogue, to many, is extremely awkward, and even the afterglow comment is almost as if Mulder picked up someone at the bar only to have sex with.

Shippers, in general, are just sick and tired of childish games. They think the characters, and the series itself, both deserve much better.

And here's the most recent quote from CC about the relationship:

"I wouldn't call them romantic now. In episode 3 there was a moment, a night, possibly a second night. Does that make them romantic or does that make them human? I think it just makes them human." - Chris Carter

Source: https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2285072/why-the-x-files-doesnt-play-up-mulder-and-scullys-romance

I am a shipper. Have been for a long time. And I do see a mature relationship and I don't agree that the estrangement brought nothing to season 10 nor do I see M&S as portrayed as "friends with benefits" in this episode (though I can't blame people who do, based on CC's comments).  I think many shippers want The X-Files to be a romance, and are then disappointed when they don't get it.  Which, to some extent, I get! Because the coyness in seasons 6 and 7 drove me crazy too, so if we had to sit through that, can't we at least have a full-blown romance?

But, you know, that's not the show. And even if it was the show, they have been together as partners, friends, and lovers, in some form or fashion, for 25 years. To me, they are exactly where I'd expect a long term couple who has ups and downs are going to be after this long of a time.  So I take it for what it is.

But I also understand if people are disappointed, then they are going to be disappointed.  (And I should say, I do share some of the disappointments - I truly did hate the twist at the end of MSIII). But I guess I am still trying to figure out why I, a shipper, found the dialogue in this episode as so emotionally moving while others are saying it diminishes the relationship. I just see it differently, and will have to accept that.

Edited January 19, 2018 by eleanorofaquitaine

[EUROTRASH]

5 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I am a shipper. Have been for a long time. And I do see a mature relationship and I don't agree that the estrangement brought nothing to season 10 nor do I see M&S as portrayed as "friends with benefits" in this episode (though I can't blame people who do, based on CC's comments).  I think many shippers want The X-Files to be a romance, and are then disappointed when they don't get it.  Which, to some extent, I get! Because the coyness in seasons 6 and 7 drove me crazy too, so if we had to sit through that, can't we at least have a full-blown romance?

But, you know, that's not the show. And even if it was the show, they have been together as partners, friends, and lovers, in some form or fashion, for 25 years. To me, they are exactly where I'd expect a long term couple who has ups and downs are going to be after this long of a time.  So I take it for what it is.

But I also understand if people are disappointed, then they are going to be disappointed.  (And I should say, I do share some of the disappointments - I truly did hate the twist at the end of MSIII). But I guess I am still trying to figure out why I, a shipper, found the dialogue in this episode as so emotionally moving while others are saying it diminishes the relationship. I just see it differently, and will have to accept that.

You see it differently, and that's OK.

[ratSenoL]

I enjoyed the episode for the most part, though I thought the pacing was a bit off. I was pleased with myself for picking up that Chuck and Judy were played by the same actress.  It generally felt like a love letter to the shippers.  I am not a shipper, but I can agree that the inconsistencies in MS over the years has been frustrating and somewhat distracting from the show.  Bottom line: after everything Mulder and Scully have been through--not to mention having a kid together--their relationship should evolve.  It would be helpful to the viewer to have that evolution reflected as the seasons go by, though I'm fine with the show Not dwelling on it.

As to this episode in particular, I think it might help to pretend that it aired prior to the last one ("This"?).  Someone way up thread mentioned that it may indeed have been aired out of order.  Then, it makes more sense.  In "Plus One," MS have another one of their deep conversations and "ATTHS," that sort of brings them back together after their breakup last season. Then, the following episode ("This"), they're just an old married couple drooling on the couch side by side having fallen asleep to late night TV.  Then all the relationship stuff makes sense and stops distracting from the storyline.  (Though, that doesn't explain how they're in the office in "Plus One" and kicked out of the office in "This." Oh well. I'm sticking to it!)

We'll have to see how that holds up as the season progresses. Or maybe this is all just a daydream of Scully's while she's watching Mulder die of the virus at the end of last season. 

[festivus]

I'm not a shipper in the traditional sense as in I'm not so much interested in a romantic or sexual relationship as I am in the emotional connection between them. So in that sense, the episode delivered for me. I did have some problems with it which I may try to articulate later after I give it a re-watch. 

1 hour ago, EUROTRASH said:

What many fans want is just a mature, romantic relationship, pretty much exactly how it was portrayed in the second movie, IWTB. They see anything else as being out of character, especially S10 implying that Mulder's depression was a major cause for the break-up. Let's face it, we're talking about a duo that went through hell and back, lived together, and had a child together. Nothing was able to separate them, so it's pretty odd that Mulder's "depression" would do it.

Not to me it wasn't. Looking at it in a real life way and from seeing it happen to people I know, I didn't have a problem with M/S not living together anymore. I know I've talked about it here on these boards, and I know I have an unpopular opinion about it.

I've aged at close to the same age as Mulder and Scully and the way I've shipped them has changed over that time.

Edited January 19, 2018 by festivus
spacing is important