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Fish Mooney: A Shark or a Remora?

Actionmage

By Actionmage
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Actionmage

Actionmage

Jada Pinkett-Smith will be playing "an imposing, hotheaded and notoriously sadistic crime boss and nightclub owner with street smarts and almost extra-sensory abilities", per Wikipedia.
As long as the "extra-sensory abilities" are like Patrick Jane's or Shawn Spenser's hyper-observational acuity, I'm okay. If she's like Radar from M*A*S*H, as long as it doesn't get insane, I'm okay.

 

Might she be a potential mentor for young Wayne when he gets old enough for his obsession? Now, I sorta hope so.

 

Plus? It's Jada Pinkett-Smith!

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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(edited)

Thanks for the picture, Kromm! Maybe this still was just badly lit? Maybe there's a quick but sensible reason, but it may just be that's what TPTB felt the character needed. I'm just glad there is a chance to find out!
 
eta: I just found this on Wikipedia after wild-ass guessing (italics are mine):

"Opahs are deeply keeled, compressed, discoid fish with conspicuous coloration: the body is a deep red-orange grading to rosy on the belly, with white spots covering the flanks. Both the median and paired fins are a bright vermillion . The large eyes stand out, as well, ringed with golden yellow. The body is covered in minute cycloid scales and its silvery, iridescent guanine coating is easily abraded."

 

Opahs are also called moonfish, which is the wild guess I had-- Fish Mooney=Moon fish.  Hey, as long as Oswald Cobblepot doesn't squawk and waddle like Burgess Meredith, I'm okay at this kind of paralleling.

Edited by Actionmage
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darkestboy

darkestboy

Not sure about the hairdo but her dynamic with Oswald should be interesting to watch over the course of the series.

 

I hope she's good though, because I like the idea of the character and it's nice to have a prominent female antagonist as well.

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Sandman

Sandman

Maybe it's the reference to her "almost extrasensory" level of perception, but I'm getting a (late-70s) Saturn Girl vibe from Ms. Mooney's getup in the image Kromm posted. I'm kind of meh on Pinkett-Smith, honestly. We'll see.

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Sandman

Sandman

And don't forget said menace contributing to origin stories: I presume Ms. Mooney's beatdown of Cobblepot is the source of the Penguin walk.

 

I thought Pinkett-Smith pretty effective, too. And not necessarily more campy or genre-y than everyone else (except McKenzie, who's playing it straight down the middle).

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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What I loved about Fish was that she acted like a criminal boss would! Not just a woman with a funny-sounding name, but a boss in her own right, with a taste for the next level and a plan.

 

Damn straight Fish wasn't going to be sentimental about Harvey Bullock-he threatened her! 

 

That tall drink of milk is going to be trouble, especially after learning one doesn't leave one's back open to Fish during a fight in her office.

 

I want to see how Fish deals with Jim, post-Oswald's "death", but also when he returns. I would also like some solid 411 on how...cordial Det. Bullock and Ms. Mooney are after work.

 

I am eager to find out more about this woman!

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darkestboy

darkestboy

Same here. We've got a fascinating character who like Harley Quinn probably has the potential to become extremely popular and eventually end up being added into the comics but onscreen, she's got a brilliant rapport with Oswald that's worth exploring as well as us finding how and why she fell into the criminal world as well.

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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Good lord though, Jada is REALLY chewing the scenary.

I keep seeing this, but I really don't find her being problematically over-the-top. I watch the reruns of the actually campy Batman on MeTV. Jada is barely a twitch compared to the hams and chompers on that crew!  Fish enunciates and has a Mae West vibe to her business voice (low and a little husky). She has no problem dropping the façade when the need arises. She is a physically smaller person than most of the bosses, no doubt, and a WOC, which makes Fish a moving target. She has to go bigger in order to simply get taken as seriously as the usual guys in Falcone's "family."  

We saw it when Fish's "recreation" boy paid the price for Fish taking an ill-advised shot at Falcone by going for a hit without permission. Granted, anyone with an unauthorized hit would get the same. Falcone gets the quieter scenes, currently, due to him being the top man. Fish is trying to be her own woman, and at the top as well. I do not see a disconnect between Fish trying to cultivate a more refined persona ( theater district is her turf) and her ability to beatdown whoever she feels like. Dramatic? Hell yes! Chewing the scenery? Not yet. ( There is always the possibility the writing takes that turn.)

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maczero

maczero

Good lord though, Jada is REALLY chewing the scenary.

I keep seeing this, but I really don't find her being problematically over-the-top. I watch the reruns of the actually campy Batman on MeTV. Jada is barely a twitch compared to the hams and chompers on that crew!  Fish enunciates and has a Mae West vibe to her business voice (low and a little husky). She has no problem dropping the façade when the need arises. She is a physically smaller person than most of the bosses, no doubt, and a WOC, which makes Fish a moving target. She has to go bigger in order to simply get taken as seriously as the usual guys in Falcone's "family."  

We saw it when Fish's "recreation" boy paid the price for Fish taking an ill-advised shot at Falcone by going for a hit without permission. Granted, anyone with an unauthorized hit would get the same. Falcone gets the quieter scenes, currently, due to him being the top man. Fish is trying to be her own woman, and at the top as well. I do not see a disconnect between Fish trying to cultivate a more refined persona ( theater district is her turf) and her ability to beatdown whoever she feels like. Dramatic? Hell yes! Chewing the scenery? Not yet. ( There is always the possibility the writing takes that turn.)

I'd say Jada is playing Fish over the top for a reason.  She's a proto-super villain.  She's the evolutionary link between mobsters like Falcone and future villains like the Joker, Penguin etc.

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JayKay

JayKay

I thought that Jada struck a finer balance as Fish in the pilot than the second episode, which is strange since it was the opposite for everyone else, imo. It probably wouldn't bother me as much if I weren't a fan, but the Eartha Kitt impression (likely an intentional "callback" of sorts, it's so on the nose) became distracting. I hope that the pilot version makes a return, because I don't mind campy Fish - but I want to see Fish and not 60's Catwoman.

Something I find endearing about Fish is how gracious she can be toward her patrons and her friends/mooks. Even the comedian from the pilot, as terrified as he was. She might be a ruthless mogul on-the-rise, but there's still some warmth and goodwill in her. I really like that. It reminds me oddly enough of 60's Riddler and how he got along with his gang. He was one of my favorites for that very reason.

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Rahul

Rahul

Something I find endearing about Fish is how gracious she can be toward her patrons and her friends/mooks. Even the comedian from the pilot, as terrified as he was. She might be a ruthless mogul on-the-rise, but there's still some warmth and goodwill in her. I really like that. It reminds me oddly enough of 60's Riddler and how he got along with his gang. He was one of my favorites for that very reason.

 

I thought just the opposite. Screeching "Get out!" at the top of your lungs to a full house of patrons inside your establishment seems anything but gracious to me. All those in attendance that night are likely to never return. 

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janie jones

janie jones

(edited)

Some might [return to the restaurant] though. I guess it was just a reaction to having Lazlo beaten in front of her.

I would.  Everyone who'd already been served got a free meal. 

Edited by janie jones
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Eegah

Eegah

I'm now halfway convinced that Fish is going to become the Joker. It seriously feels like they're throwing every clue in our faces while counting on us to disregard them because she's a woman. Myself, I would find it a quite neat twist, and I hope it happens.

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Kromm

Kromm

I think the only way she's leaving is when Oswald is truly in power as crime boss, The Penguin. I don't don't see that happening in the first season.

Yes, I see Oswald defeating her as his last act before he takes over.  He won't be replacing her of course--it's Maroni and Falcone who will suffer first and presumably Oswald and Fish take their places respectively for each "side" in the war.  Then they duke it out and Penguin wins, and Fish goes bye bye.  Can't happen for several seasons.

 

Although if they want to stick at least a bit to the movies, TV, comics etc.  I can't see Penguin as staying on top alone for long.  In most versions he's more of an information broker even in the time of Batman than a crime family boss.  He's got a power base, but it's not secure.  Even so, THIS version seems to be on a trajectory towards outright power--even if they might do something to mute it a bit by the end so he makes sense as a version of the Penguin we can recognize from 10 to 15 years later.

Whatever and when Fish's actual end is, I'm sure it will be filled with a ton of Jada Smith scenery chewing. It's just inevitable.

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MarkHB

MarkHB

I don't know how many folks watched that Paleyfest video I put in the media thread, but one of the questions JPS was asked was what influences she drew on.  She gave three names, one I can't remember but the other two were Norma Desmond and Eartha Kitt.  So at least the Kitt-channeling is deliberate, and if she's namechecking Norma Desmond (yes, I'm aware she's a fictional character) she might as well have shown up the first day and told the set designers that they were doing double-duty for Craft Services.

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greenbean

greenbean

I just caught up with this show, and I'm loving her character. I don't think she overacts, it's hammy, but it's in the spirit of the material imo. The other actors who are playing it more straight have got it wrong. The show loses it's pace during some of the detective scenes, where it starts to seem like a standard crime show. Gotham needs more comic book elements. I've read people reference the 60's Batman as a criticism, but that tone is a good starting point.

 

The producers/writers should be bolder.

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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The other actors who are playing it more straight have got it wrong

 

I don't see it as wrong, so much as there is a good balance between those who need to be more grounded characters and the ones that can (and DO) get to let loose and go a bit wild. 

 

The preview for next week showed Fish getting ready to straighten Oswald's hair, if she gets a chance.  Also, who's the mook would doesn't get that if he worked for Fish, he might just know some things about the Falcones?  (Please be Nico! Please!)

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MarkHB

MarkHB

I don't see it as wrong, so much as there is a good balance between those who need to be more grounded characters and the ones that can (and DO) get to let loose and go a bit wild.

Exactly.  If tried to go further over the edge, they could fall over completely and wind up becoming Batman '66.  It took 20+ years for Batman's perception in the public's eyes to recover from that and I have no desire to have it return to that place.  In fact, the earlier show was actually supposed to be more serious than it turned out to be; watch the pilot ("Hi Diddle Riddle" / "Smack in the Middle") and you'll easily see the heavier tone.

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greenbean

greenbean

I don't see what's wrong with Batman '66. I don't agree with the derision that the show gets. Gotham moves closer to a dull standard crime procedural when it shifts to Gordon and co. The recent episode is an example of that. Outside of Fish's scenes, it's like L&O. I'm not saying it shouldn't be serious, but it could do with having a stronger stylistic and fantasy tone. I'm trying to think of an example. Hannibal has a stylistic tone, it uses strong visual features and elements, yet it is very serious. I'm thinking of Tim Burton, not only his style, but the fact that he embraces surreal element, and plays that straight, rather than trying to inject seriousness by being "realistic". Which I'm not a fan of, but this is what lots of comic fans argue for, and what the Batman films have done.

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Kromm

Kromm

I don't see what's wrong with Batman '66. I don't agree with the derision that the show gets. Gotham moves closer to a dull standard crime procedural when it shifts to Gordon and co.

Batman '66 is fine.  As a historical artifact of broadly comedic early superhero TV. It would NEVER be done like that with modern audiences though, even if someone decided to go over-the-top comedic--we'd instead get something like a live action Adult Swim program.  

 

Wanting to avoid Batman '66-like flourishes for a dramatic take is not only sensible, but necessary. I mean think why people hated Schumaker's Batman & Robin film.  That was 30 years out from Batman '66 and people had already fixed that old style in their minds as totally out of synch with what they wanted out of their live action superheroes.  Now it's another 18 years on... do you think people have gone backwards on this?  It's not that they don't like over the top, ever, but it has a specific time and place and venue, and a big 1 hour prime time network drama trying to appeal to the broadest audience possible isn't it.

 

Should the show maybe go a bit more outside the box in terms of being stylistic?  Sure, although I don't think it's as bad as you've pegged it.  I mean Balloonman? Does that seem vanilla and procedural generic?  Not to me.  But it's not Batman 66ish. If it was Batman 66ish then nobody would have actually died, it would have been played totally for comedy with someone screaming like a girl while being carried away by the balloon, and our hero (not Batman in this case, but I guess Gordon as a proxy) would have had some ready quip he uttered before using some unrealistic Mcguffin or other convenient prop to get the person caught in the balloon down.

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Actionmage

Actionmage

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Fish is going to be even more pissed if she finds out how deeply Oswald has betrayed her! 

 

I wonder how long it will take to see Fish decide to use Liza to poison Falcone? Fish can be patient, but things have been crappy for her just now. She very probably isn't upset over Nico's loss, but it's inconvenient for her, possibly. Fish mentioned the "cooking and cleaning" routine, and we saw Liza almost playing, well, if not Lady of the Manor, then the Housekeeper of the Manor. (Her offering Barbara a muffin, but shutting down Szasz was nice.)  Carmine might need to let The Boys try the food first soon.

 

I am still loving the outfits and earrings Fish wears! The feathery cape was just odd enough to be neat. I like that she tends to golds and jewel tones, as they look radiant on her. (Like the blue halter/strappy top and skirt outfit.)  I was also wondering about Fish's nails: Did she do the Adrienne Barbeau thing from Escape From New York, where her character, Maggie, painted her nails with melted tin to turn her nails into weapons. (http://supervillain.tumblr.com/post/58976309895/escape-from-new-york-article-in-starlog-49-found  "page 18"; I read that as a teen and it stuck with me all this time.)

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Trini

Trini

(edited)

Yeah her outfits are ridiculous... LOVE them!

 

I was never worried about her longevity until tonight. It seems common sense for Falcone to take her out since he knows she's out to get him.

Edited by Trini
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Actionmage

Actionmage

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I think we all knew Fish would eventually be leading that prison; I just wasn't expecting it in one episode.  It made sense, still, even with the seeming 'just one day's time'. Fish would totally scope out the power structure and take on the biggest dog in the yard. I just hope that she learned about unproven aides. Her new info buddy helped, but he could recognize that she was strong. Look at Oswald's rise to-date.

 

I hope that the prison is still in Gotham. It would be kind of cool and kind of hilarious.

 

Jada is just showing us why Fish is respected, even as she's currently in disgrace. Fish has had a life with luxuries and wants it back. And Butch. I'm glad she's still with us. I hope for a while.

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darkestboy

darkestboy

I actually like Fish's OTT for the most part and I think Gotham benefits from being a little theatrical at times with certain characters. If I wanted a Criminal Minds/Law & Order type of crime drama, I'd watch though.

 

That being said, aside from finding out her real name two episodes ago, we still need something of an actual backstory for Fish now.

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