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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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Chaser

Chaser

I honestly don't understand the big deal with them referencing Felicity like that. They want to remind the audience about the shared universe (which they seem to do every few episodes). Cisco hacked something, Felicity is a super hacker. It's an easy one. What were Barry and Caitlin supposed to say? "Great job Cisco, better than that other Hacker we know. Which is crazy you know because Felicity is an experienced, MIT-trained Hacker and you aren't."

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I was just happy that for once a reference to Arrow was made without bashing any of it's characters.  For a while this season I swear it was every other episode.  Enough so that I was cringing everytime it happened.  I still did some cringing this episode. 

 

I was happy they finally let Iris do something (even if it is ultimately in service of Wally and Joe's character growth)  but apparently only one woman is allowed to have anything close to resembling a storyline at a time.  DP didn't have to have a huge story but except for the Felicity Smoak line which was said in tandem with Barry, I don' t think she had even one line that wasn't strictly addressing Barry fighting crime.  They even gave Cisco the line about if Barry was feeling well since his speed was dropping.  Medical is Catlin's domain.  She doesn't get to do anything friendly or buddy buddy in this episode (or most of them) but I thought they would at least let her keep all health related inquiries.  Nope, only boys get to have conversations outside of the Meta of the Week. Joking around, making up names, looking at apps, bonding with evil mentors.   Sigh, this show.  I wish it was at least a little less blatant in it's bias.

 

But none of them know what Iris is capable of. Yea. Preposition again.

 

Pet Peeve.  It's not actually a grammatical sin to end a sentence with a preposition.  The rules for Latin say you can't, but modern English is flexible enough so that it's actually perfectly fine and logical.  Only the grammar police still cling to the archaic practice. 

 

So make no apologies. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Cisco: "Who's the best hacker in the world, people!"

Barry/Caitlin: "Felicity Smoak."

Cisco: "That's not friendship."

Maybe Cisco doesn't think it's friendship to say that but it is the truth.

 

The first time Felicity appeared on The Flash (when she went to visit Barry after Sara died), they needed to hack into the police data base.  Cisco said that it would take him a half hour or more and then Felicity sat down and did it in a few seconds.

 

So yeah, the show has proved that Felicity is a better hacker than Cisco.

 

Could be nice if characters on Arrow were routinely complementary (complimentary?) of Flash characters (besides Barry, not that they do that either)

It would be nice if the Flash characters complimented the Arrow characters instead of putting them down.  Joe and Wells never had a good thing to say about Oliver and Barry's remark that they might name a coffee drink after the Arrow if he were to save the city maybe have been funny to AK but it wasn't to me.

 

Barry trusts quite a lot of people, actually.

All male.

He certainly doesn't trush any of the wimmens (Iris, Linda, Patty) with his secret unless he's forced to.

 

I was happy they finally let Iris do something (even if it is ultimately in service of Wally and Joe's character growth)  but apparently only one woman is allowed to have anything close to resembling a storyline at a time.  DP didn't have to have a huge story but except for the Felicity Smoak line which was said in tandem with Barry, I don' t think she had even one line that wasn't strictly addressing Barry fighting crime.  They even gave Cisco the line about if Barry was feeling well since his speed was dropping.  Medical is Catlin's domain.  She doesn't get to do anything friendly or buddy buddy in this episode (or most of them) but I thought they would at least let her keep all health related inquiries.  Nope, only boys get to have conversations outside of the Meta of the Week. Joking around, making up names, looking at apps, bonding with evil mentors.   Sigh, this show.  I wish it was at least a little less blatant in it's bias.

The misogyny on that show is the biggest reason I'm only watching during the commercials of the show I'm really watching.  They won't let Caitlyn be anything but a prop to the men, either as a scientist or a love interest, and not always that. Iris is only used to prop the men's stories and Barry goes through non-Iris love interests faster than Oliver Queen did, and then they leave the show.

 

Speaking of which, I noticed that Joe was wearing a wedding ring. Has he always worn one (hasn't really been married for years and year) or was that a slip by Jesse Martin?

Edited by statsgirl
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Speaking of which, I noticed that Joe was wearing a wedding ring. Has he always worn one (hasn't really been married for years and year) or was that a slip by Jesse Martin?

 

No, I think he always wears it.  I never noticed it one way or the other until Francine asked him why he never took it off.  He pointed out that she was supposed to be dead and  widowers don't take off their ring.  . 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Supergirl plays it too safe for me. They don't really let Kara have any emotional depth, unless it's about what guy she likes. When they do give her emotions or challenges it's all better at the end of the episode. While none of them have enough women in the forefront, I like that Marvel is at least showing with Jessica Jones and Peggy Carter that women aren't perfect and can be flawed and tough and vulnerable without being weak. 

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HighHopes

HighHopes

So it's official now that Barry will be crossing over to Supergirl this season. 

 

I get that they both have superpowers and whatnot.. But now it's official that aliens exist in Arrow, and I have to wonder what exactly the point is in Oliver and Co going out and fighting without superpowers now... 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This means that everyone should've known about Superman.  So that kinda undermines the whole astonishment at metahumans and Barry's super speed.

 

Also, I hope Oliver acquires magic of some kind in order to level the playing field.

Edited by tv echo
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I kinda see the non-powered superheroes differently. The metas and aliens don't undermine them imo. Here are these folks with exceptional powers who have it easier, but some people -- like Oliver, like everyone in the Bat family -- do this same job, even though it's much tougher for them, because they have the skills and the wits to do so, and because they can.

Felicity's "it's what we do" speech in 411 reminded me of that, even.

Edited by dtissagirl
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bijoux

bijoux

Yeah, human heroes are more vulnerable and the stakes are always higher for them. I want Oliver to acquire superpowers about as much as I want Felicity to get a mask. Not in the least.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

So it's official now that Barry will be crossing over to Supergirl this season. 

 

I get that they both have superpowers and whatnot.. But now it's official that aliens exist in Arrow, and I have to wonder what exactly the point is in Oliver and Co going out and fighting without superpowers now... 

Well we don't know how they meet so nothing is official alien wise for E1. But it will certainly be interesting to see how they explain it.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I could forget that all of the Arrow and Flash crew no nothing about aliens even if Superman is established in Metropolis because they could just hand wave that as  a Metropolis only kind of thing.  And I can pretend that Kara and crew don't really care much about masked vigilantes.  I just don't see how Cat wouldn't have paid some attention to Flash Day - even if it was just to make a snide comment.

 

I swear this is going to have to a be a multiple Earth thing to make any kind of sense.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I think Supergirl is probably on a different Earth than The Flash, and he will accidentally end up traveling there somehow.

Have we actually seen aliens in Arrow/Earth 1? What am I forgetting? We've seen metahumans and magic, but I'm not remembering any aliens. Or even any acknowledgement of aliens, other than Rip's one comment about seeing men of steel die.

Edited by Starfish35
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tarotx

tarotx

I want another world and then they can have Flarrow characters guest. And vise versa non Kara characters. Oh! We can send Laurel to Super girl this way! Best for most everybody. Especially KC because she will be on CBS this way. No one can complain! Right?

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Trini

Trini

So it's official now that Barry will be crossing over to Supergirl this season. 

 

Also the episode is airing right after B v S's opening weekend, which has a cameo of

Barry Allen (Ezra Miller).

So DC/WB are going to try and make this another event-type thing.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

Not if they keep Supergirl as an AU, like Earth-2.

they will probably have berry traveling there or accidentally falling through one of the entrances. I mean they are visiting Earth-2 next episode.

Or it can be Supergirl earth Barry Allen.. (have they confirmed it's Earth-1 flash?

 

Also the episode is airing right after B v S's opening weekend, which has a cameo of

Barry Allen (Ezra Miller).

So DC/WB are going to try and make this another event-type thing.

as far as I know that spoiler thing is still a mere rumor and has not been confirmed.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Seems to be a take on the DC Comics series

World's Finest

 

Not really sure that title gives anything away, to be honest.  I think it's just an homage to a book/title that focused on teamups.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Bringing this over from the episode discussion thread because so true:

As for Curtis, I don't think he's perfect, per say. To be fair, we have only seen Curtis either at Palmer Tech, or at Oliver's holiday party. We don't know a whole lot about him, besides that he's quirky and is good at making things. Oh, and he's married. Sure, he can throw a few punches but with Roy parkouring his moves, it looks fairly easy to do. We just haven't had enough time to see Curtis' flaws. I like to think of Curtis like the male Felicity. He's cute, he's quirky, he's very good at what he does and he can stand up for himself. We didn't know that much about Felicity when we first met her. But over time, the show gave her more room to breathe and grow as a person. We didn't see her flaws right away either. It's why I have no problem with him building the tech for Felicity.

 

I have problems with Cisco's ability to do everything technical (although he can't even make a good security system!) but what I love about Felicity and Curtis is that they are both good in their own departments. Felicity excels at computer-based things, like hacking and creating online systems and viruses. Curtis is good at the engineering of machines and technologies, like Ray. It doesn't mean that Felicity is incompetent for not building these things. I expect her to help create the idea, at the very least. Her and Curtis' skills need to be brought together, after all. They'd make an awesome super team. But their skills are entirely different. Just because someone is good at working technology, doesn't mean they'll be able to build new tech. Of course, if the show ever changes this, I will be thoroughly pissed. But for now, they haven't underminded Felicity or Curtis, so I'm happy. 

 

But it's why I don't expect Curtis to be able to hack into the Pentagon. I don't know; maybe it's because Curtis is so damn adorable and so supportive of Felicity that I can't help but love him. 

and why I really like Curtis (plus EK makes him adorable) while Cisco is working my last nerve.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

I thought this was a damn good episode! And it felt like it was an hour long which is great since it didn't fly by. I felt like they achieved a lot.

 

The writers obviously have a great grasp/fun with Sara/Snart/Rip and I enjoy them immensely but they need to start showing some serious love to Kendra.

 

Since Malcolm said yesterday that Sara isn't effected by the Pit the same way Thea is, I guess he wasn't talking about needing to constantly kill in order to stay alive. She still got the lust but if she doesn't indulge, it won't give her back pains.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I guess Sara's bloodlust isn't cured. She can just take it out on hardwood flooring. 

 

Although she may have killed those extras, she did throw her knife at woman with the gun and sliced the stomach of another. Unless of course she was using rubber knifes like Arrow likes to claim Diggle and Oliver use in their guns. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Do these EPs even keep track of what happens on their own shows?...

 

This week's Arrow - on why Thea is different from Sara:
"Please do not refer to me as the host."
"This isn't a joke. If you don't indulge this bloodlust, you will die"
"I don't understand. Sara wasn't like this."
"John Constantine made Sara whole and restored the balance."

 

This week's LoT:
"What the hell happened back there?"

"You know I'm a killer. That's why you put me in your little group."

"I didn't witness just a killer at work, Sara. What I saw was an animal."

"You are the last person on this ship to judge anyone!"

"This is not judgment, Sara. It is concern."

"I thought you knew how I was resurrected and... and what it did to me."

"I know you were restored by something called the Lazarus Pit."

"Well, apparently there's a downside to being brought back to life. My friend Thea calls it a blood lust, and I think that's being too generous, and so is calling me an animal. I'm a monster."

Edited by tv echo
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I was wondering if they were just referring to the way Thea is dying/her injuries are reappearing, because yeah, the EPs and Caity have said that Sara will have the bloodlust. But the dialogue in 412 was confusing, and they didn't spend enough time with Sara to see whether that would have happened to her eventually too, so...

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

This whole Pit thing is a mess because they didn't think the two storylines through, they just needed the LP to bring Sara back. But I think what they're going for is that the desire to kill will always be there for both of them, but Thea actually has to kill, otherwise the Pit effects will kill her - which is something that Sara doesn't have to deal with because Constantine and plot. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

The thing is I'm sure Sara has killed at least in her time as Feral Sara. She also has a month or so before she reaches the time period that Oliver (is the) first (to) notice Thea's blood lust. And a few months more before as many months removed from the pit as Thea's new symptom.  Arrow didn't even need to mention Sara.

Edited by tarotx
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

If you agree with this writer (and I do), then I recommend reading the entire article and not just the portions I've quoted...

 

When Is ‘Arrow’ Finally Going to Get the Credit It Deserves?
FEBRUARY 3, 2016
http://fangirlish.com/when-is-arrow-finally-going-to-get-the-credit-it-deserves/

While it took some time for Arrow to find its groove – when they established the heart of the show with the Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity dynamic – it quickly evolved into one of television’s best shows regardless of its home on the often overlooked and dismissed CW. Arrow was able to bring a groundedness to the superhero genre that had not been seen before and was equally entertaining and action packed as it was full of heart. It was drawing the eyes of critics everywhere and receiving praise abound.
 

And from Arrow came the show’s first spinoff, The Flash in 2014, which quickly rocketed to success with the well-known hero that first made his debut on Arrow. Supergirl and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow followed this year along with other comic book adaptations ranging from DC Comics to Marvel. We live in the dawn of the superhero/comic book television age, but sometimes people seem to forget that Arrow was the show that started it all. Namely The CW’s PR department and the show’s producers.
*  *  *
The Flash gets all of the hype – the promotion, the focus – while Arrow quietly continues to slay it on television relying on the show’s passionate fandom to do the network’s job and promote it. In fact, Arrow has far been the better of the two shows this season story wise and ratings wise (as it has seen an overall rise in ratings this season in comparison to The Flash), which just goes to show that Arrow doesn’t necessarily need the promotion to be successful. But it would be nice if the network gave the show the credit that it so clearly deserves but doesn’t receive enough of.
*  *  *
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love The Flash and Supergirl and all of the other comic book shows out there. But when your favorite show – the show that made all of these other shows possible – is constantly being ignored — not by the press — but by those involved with the show it’s beyond frustrating as a fan. It’s especially frustrating this season as Arrow is having one of its best seasons yet.
 

And something that is less noticeable is when Arrow is brought up on The Flash sometimes it’s in a demeaning manner, as if The Flash producers – you know the same ones who produce Arrow – are the ones taking shot at the hero and the show that made The Flash possible. I understand that Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg always dreamed about making The Flash, but can we at least refrain from trashing Arrow in the process? It goes back to the argument that Barry Allen is a better hero than Oliver Queen, which is completely ridiculous. Just because he’s more lighthearted?....

Edited by tv echo
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tarotx

tarotx

It's ok for LOT but probably not for a potential season 2 budget. I figured LOT would take a hit since it killed one of it's huge Comic characters last episode. Arrow did beat it this week though so good for Arrow :)

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Proteus

Proteus

It's ok for LOT but probably not for a potential season 2 budget. I figured LOT would take a hit since it killed one of it's huge Comic characters last episode. Arrow did beat it this week though so good for Arrow :)

I think it's too soon to begin saying it won't get a season 2.

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tarotx

tarotx

Did anyone actually like Hawkguy? Pretty much every review I saw singled him out as a douche character played by a poor actor.

Yeah the comic fans in some facebook groups and quite a few of the twitter followers who tweeted about the death. Plus some fans of other characters think the death took the fun away because they will have to worry about the other characters deaths.  I knew LOT would drop but not quite as big as it did. The 07 in the 18-34 is what's concerning. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

It's ok for LOT but probably not for a potential season 2 budget. I figured LOT would take a hit since it killed one of it's huge Comic characters last episode. Arrow did beat it this week though so good for Arrow :)

 

 

 

I think it's too soon to begin saying it won't get a season 2.

 

 

Don't think that's what Tarotx was saying.  He/She was talking about the S2 Budget probably getting cut

Edited by Morrigan2575
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