Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Guest]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Oliver's making dinner for everyone in the lair. WD and Dinah come in after a B-mission, and Oliver calls him over, then rips off the mask, washes it, and uses it to drain the noodles that are perfectly al dente. 

I love a superhero mask that multitasks! ?

[Trini]

24 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

She's still a fan favorite, if polls and all the glowing articles written by non-comic book sources are anything to judge by. And the only reason why she's not as popular as she used to be is because she called out Oliver on his shitty behavior instead of always absolving him and giving him pep talks.

My point was she was a fan favorite in the early seasons, so why would anyone say she was temporary?

[Primal Slayer]

8 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Agreed. I think to Iris getting back together with him and saying "Screw the future" was her agreeing to the proposal, although I think officially that's not a verbal contract. 

Okay, from that sneak peek of Iris and Barry when they mention Laurel as one of the people they've lost - holy crap, they never met! Caitlin at least met her even if they never spoke onscreen. Barry saying it would've made some sense, albeit Cisco the most since he clearly had a crush and Laurel had called him a friend. But Iris and Laurel never spoke! Ever! They never even stood in the same room together silently. 

Laurel knew Mari/Vixen. It's more of the "tell but don't show". They don't care if characters met on screen or not.

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

My point was she was a fan favorite in the early seasons, so why would anyone say she was temporary?

I think they meant temporary as a possible LI. There was talk about Olicity very early on and most people assumed that even if something happened it could only be temporary because of Oliver/Laurel.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

My point was she was a fan favorite in the early seasons, so why would anyone say she was temporary?

Seriously? Because she's not Oliver's comic canon love interest.

[Velocity23]

[statsgirl]

Quote

Tuesday’s with Barry.

I thought "Who is Tuesday?"  (grammar junkie here)

18 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's more than kind of a cheat but it's the CW.  Every executive is a young person, lol.   

Pure soap opera.

7 hours ago, tofutan said:

I think the real problem of Supergirl creatively, so far, is that the new season is really lacking drive. People praise the show for various individuals parts, like oh, more sisters, oh, less romance screentime, oh, more CatCo, but other than Kara's depression (which let's face it, is not the most exciting topic), there is no red thread, no driving force. (as people have noted, particularly male viewers have stopped watching near the end of season 2/in season 3, so people I would guess are less influenced by shipper preferences, they don't exactly overlap with lesbians who are protesting the end of Sanvers)

I firmly believe that just throwing in random cute sister scenes, even if they are good, is pointless. Those scenes were good in season 1 because it was part of an underlying driving storyline, Kara getting used to being a Superhero, Kara dealing with Astra and Kara learning from Cat. No matter how much people might hate Mon-El, he served a similar purpose in season 2, there was always a clear progression going on, just like there was in Sanvers.

 

Mon El may have served a clear progression but he was also the reason the show changed into something I stopped watching.  Now they're fixing that -- Kara and Alex have actual bonding scenes that aren't about their respective love interests, Catco is once again a player on the show (s2 Kara was happy to be a blogger as long as she was with Mon El), Lena is doing big things like Cat did, James has an actual purpose and storyline that isn't superfluous to the show, and Kara is trying to find herself and how the two parts of her fit together.

They have to get me back to watch after they bungled s2 for me.  And then they can do their season plot.

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Eddie was always going to be temporary; no matter what.

Felicity was supposed to be temporary too.

The difference is that the Arrow writers threw comic canon away and gave Oliver the better love interest.  Barry is the star of The Flash and the EPs love him so they're not going to end his comic canon relationship with Iris just because Eddie may have more chemistry and a more adult relationship with her.

From the clip:  Wow, that therapist is pretty bad.

Edited October 17, 2017 by statsgirl

[Trini]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

They don't care if characters met on screen or not.

The showrunners only care about the other shows (and their canon) when it suits the needs of their own show. That's why there are so many examples of things not matching up.

[Trini]

10 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Felicity was supposed to be temporary too.

The difference is that the Arrow writers threw comic canon away and gave Oliver the better love interest.  Barry is the star of The Flash and the EPs love him so they're not going to end his comic canon relationship with Iris just because Eddie may have more chemistry and a more adult relationship with her.

I think the difference is that The Flash never needed to deviate from their Plan A because they learned from the problems with Arrow.

[Mellowyellow]

I don't think they were ever going to chuck the comic canon Flash love story for Eddie because Grant can act and regardless of how one might feel about Barry he's popular unlike Laurel who took off like a sack of bricks with an actress who has questionable acting abilities.

Barry is popular whereas every random person I've spoken to about Arrow hated Laurel and thought the actress was awful.

They had to take away her LI role! I don't think Arrow was ever going to have comic canon love story the moment they cast KC.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Also Barry is the main character so the point is to have the great love story for him, not for Iris.

[statsgirl]

26 minutes ago, Trini said:

I think the difference is that The Flash never needed to deviate from their Plan A because they learned from the problems with Arrow.

They got a different problem instead.

The Barry Allen from the comics lied to Iris for years about his being The Flash.  She knew from their wedding night but she didn't tell him she knew. That kind of relationship was never going to appeal to the many women in 2014.

Barry lost me partly when he lied to Iris in s1 (because he listened to Joe instead of putting himself in Iris' shoes) and even more when he repeatedly lied to Patty who was not only his girlfriend but her job was to identify metahumans.  Think of the anger Oliver gets here for having lied to Felicity about MySon and that's not nearly as bad as what Barry did.

[Primal Slayer]

I wonder what happened to Earth X Barry since we know he exists since he's in The Ray (is it weird we havent seen any pics of him yet?)

[SmallScreenDiva]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Is it? She was a fan favorite until she hooked up with Oliver.

Very much still if the number of likes, RTs tweets/posts featuring her still garner ... Also, she is one of the very few people in the Arrowverse who's appeared in all and appearing in all the crossovers. Not even some leading ladies on other shows can say that. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[Mellowyellow]

Not to mention all the fanfic and fan art she's inspired! Queen of DCTV Felicity Smoak is! Drives us all a little wild ???

I really want to crack bad Queen jokes now that's she's marrying Oliver but I'll refrain just like I have refrained from the Smoak jokes! Although I do think and hope she'll keep her surname.

[WindofChange]

11 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Very much still if the number of likes, RTs tweets/posts featuring her still garner ... Also, she is one of the very few people in the Arrowverse who's appeared in all and appearing in all the crossovers. Not even some leading ladies on other shows can say that. 

To be fair this will be changing very soon because Iris/Felicity/Alex will be a part of every crossover episode this year.

[apinknightmare]

37 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I wonder what happened to Earth X Barry since we know he exists since he's in The Ray (is it weird we havent seen any pics of him yet?)

Hopefully he ran back in time to the point he no longer exists. 

[quarks]

What gets me right now is that the WB/CW know that some of us are watching all four shows. They want us to watch all four shows. That's part of the point of the crossover.

And yet, just three shows in, and we've already had the Arrow loft set appear in Flash, two destroyed elevators, and one of Arrow's two television reporters appear on Legends of Tomorrow - after, remarkably enough, popping over to Central City to do their news cast there, even though we know that she was also doing the local news in Star City at about the same time. Bonus: She was actually covering the news from Detroit.   I could take that last bit as a crossover nod - especially since that's the same reporter who was telling us about the particle accelerator back in season two - but still.  Crossover characters, intertwined plots, reminders that Young Vixen is still around doing Awesome Things - I'm all about that. But seeing the same sets/destroyed elevators, not so much.

[Sakura12]

7 minutes ago, quarks said:

What gets me right now is that the WB/CW know that some of us are watching all four shows. They want us to watch all four shows. That's part of the point of the crossover.

And yet, just three shows in, and we've already had the Arrow loft set appear in Flash, two destroyed elevators, and one of Arrow's two television reporters appear on Legends of Tomorrow - after, remarkably enough, popping over to Central City to do their news cast there, even though we know that she was also doing the local news in Star City at about the same time. Bonus: She was actually covering the news from Detroit.   I could take that last bit as a crossover nod - especially since that's the same reporter who was telling us about the particle accelerator back in season two - but still.

How do we know that News Reporter isn't a speedster and just run and report stories for 3 different cities? 

Back to your point. I was watching with a friend who never notices reused sets and even shes starting to notice them. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Sakura12

[WindofChange]

6 minutes ago, quarks said:

one of Arrow's two television reporters appear on Legends of Tomorrow - after, remarkably enough, popping over to Central City to do their news cast there, even though we know that she was also doing the local news in Star City at about the same time. Bonus: She was actually covering the news from Detroit.

HELLO REPORTER - OLIVER BEING THE GREEN ARROW IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST STORIES IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN STARLING HOW ABOUT YOU STAY PUT?! 

[Primal Slayer]

10 minutes ago, quarks said:

What gets me right now is that the WB/CW know that some of us are watching all four shows. They want us to watch all four shows. That's part of the point of the crossover.

And yet, just three shows in, and we've already had the Arrow loft set appear in Flash, two destroyed elevators, and one of Arrow's two television reporters appear on Legends of Tomorrow - after, remarkably enough, popping over to Central City to do their news cast there, even though we know that she was also doing the local news in Star City at about the same time. Bonus: She was actually covering the news from Detroit.   I could take that last bit as a crossover nod - especially since that's the same reporter who was telling us about the particle accelerator back in season two - but still.  Crossover characters, intertwined plots, reminders that Young Vixen is still around doing Awesome Things - I'm all about that. But seeing the same sets/destroyed elevators, not so much.

That's more on the GB and co. then it is WB/CW. I think they try to save their budget as much as possible and thus share sets and I have to assume that the reporter has become a running gag that they enjoy.

[quarks]

8 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

HELLO REPORTER - OLIVER BEING THE GREEN ARROW IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST STORIES IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN STARLING HOW ABOUT YOU STAY PUT?! 

To clarify, she was doing this six months ago. When, er, the DA was revealed to be a homicidal maniac and the mayor vanished for a couple of days and then returned with a kid....

....ok, I see your point.

 

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

That's more on the GB and co. then it is WB/CW. I think they try to save their budget as much as possible and thus share sets and I have to assume that the reporter has become a running gag that they enjoy.

They are definitely sharing sets in order to save money on the budget - but that's a budget ultimately set by the WB, who decides how much money to free up per show, so....yeah.

In terms of the reporter, my guess is that in this particular case, that was less of a running gag and more, "Oh, she's already coming in to film stuff for Arrow, so we'll have her do this." That's a day player, who, six seasons into this, has still failed to appear in the opening credits and, unlike the other reporter, has yet to have a single scene with the rest of the cast.  All of her stuff for the week is filmed within a single afternoon.  Flash has cast other day players to do their reporting - almost always during the filming weeks when the characters on Arrow try not watching the local news for a bit - so Legends of Tomorrow presumably could have done the same here, but just took advantage of Arrow already having that day player in the studio.

[WindofChange]

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

To clarify, she was doing this six months ago. When, er, the DA was revealed to be a homicidal maniac and the mayor vanished for a couple of days and then returned with a kid....

....ok, I see your point.

LOL :p

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, quarks said:

They are definitely sharing sets in order to save money on the budget - but that's a budget ultimately set by the WB, who decides how much money to free up per show, so....yeah.

That's just being smart. They can get more bang for their buck by sharing. They have enough money to run their shows decently like every other CW show, like spending 100k+ on the Atom suit.

[quarks]

14 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

That's just being smart. They can get more bang for their buck by sharing. They have enough money to run their shows decently like every other CW show, like spending 100k+ on the Atom suit.

Except that they aren't getting much bang for their buck.  Each individual episode ends up having fewer sets and speaking parts/extras than Riverdale and looks considerably worse than The 100 or Jane the Virgin.  And that's without even considering a few of tonight's more interesting moments with that cyber toothed tiger. 

[tofutan]

Quote

Mon El may have served a clear progression but he was also the reason the show changed into something I stopped watching.  Now they're fixing that -- Kara and Alex have actual bonding scenes that aren't about their respective love interests, Catco is once again a player on the show (s2 Kara was happy to be a blogger as long as she was with Mon El), Lena is doing big things like Cat did, James has an actual purpose and storyline that isn't superfluous to the show, and Kara is trying to find herself and how the two parts of her fit together.

They have to get me back to watch after they bungled s2 for me.  And then they can do their season plot.

So far the ratings don't back you up. The ratings took a dip in season 2 when then toned down Mon-El's screentime and they are even lower now. I'm not saying that the ratings are down because of him being on less, nor do I think they will go up when he returns. I say people need a red thread. 

Just because YOU don't need one doesn't mean that others don't. 

Take both Flash and Legends. 

Flash in the premiere immediately set up this mystery around Killer Frost and Caitlyn is working with those shady guys (and they dropped softer hints on the larger "what's up with Barry's rambling future speak", they set up the proactive villain in a menacing way. Or Legends, they foreshadow the big bad and they set up the arc of "what's up with Amaya's powers?". 

Compared to that Supergirl has felt really aimless. Sam is supposed to be the red thread this season but they seem to care more about making her "nice" than they care about setting it up as interesting. 

Just writing the show as fulfilling a list of fan requests (forefront Kara emotional arc! more CatCo! no more Guardian! less Mon-El screentime! more sister screentime!) is not actually a replacement for having a proper red thread. You can still have all those things AND have a red thread, the problem is that Supergirl didn't do that properly. The introduction of Sam has been really toothless so far. And while Edge/Pasdar are a cool concept, the show structurally did it completely different from how Flash and Legends did it. 

In Flash Barry fights the Samurai robot, at the end the Thinker is revealed to be responsible. On Legends various people foreshadow how worried Rip is of this unknown menace and then they for the first time showed the villain's agents act for the first time at the episode end as a teaser. 

Compare that to how Supergirl handled it. They introduce us to Edge, they immediately spell out for us that he hired Bloodsport, Kara defeats Bloodsport and then Edge is humiliated, but no exciting end teaser that suggests that Edge will step up his game. The show ends on an actually exciting end teaser with Sam's nightmare and then doesn't follow up on it AT ALL in the next episode. Or take Psi, interesting enough villain. But they wrap her up like 5 minutes before the episode is over, just so we can have a long scene where Sam talks to Ruby and Kara talks to Lena. Really? Did that really have to be in this episode? Wouldn't it have been more exciting if let's say they had ended on an ominous shot of Psi being locked up and swearing revenge like Flash used to do so often? 

The way Supergirl does it is just not compelling writing. And all those nice little scenes between characters you like are pointless if there is no larger drive behind it.

Sidenote: this is why I will forever disagree on the Guardian arc. In that story, James actually had agency. He had a goal (wanting to break out of his role) and he did something about it. He formed relationships in the process. He suffered setbacks. He got over them. 

What's his agency in season 3 so far? He got walked over and yelled at by Kara and took it without repercussions/emotional payoff. He got walked over by Lena and politely took it. Where is his agency? Where is his proactiveness? To me a James who goes after what he wants is 10 times more interesting than a James who is supposed to be powerful on paper, but within the context of the story is just a pleasant doormat. Because agency is what makes characters interesting and gives them power in a story. 

This is also my main problem with the Kara arc too. Again, I have full sympathy for the writers wanting to do a "Kara goes to the depths of her emotion/Kara deals with her feelings" arc. But it is really reactive. Again, I can see why that might be worth it to a writer, but then at least have drive in the stories around her, like the Sam story. Or you know, add some tension to that core arc. Like let's say have Kara proactively try to find out what happened to Mon-El's pod. It would set up a clear goal (find out what happened), Kara could proactively follow that goal, she could suffer setbacks in the pursuit of that goal. Or add a timer to it "If Kara doesn't get over her moping before time X, terrible things will happen", for example in regards to Sam. Or write the story completely from Alex POV, where Alex struggling to get Kara back emotionally is the core drive and goal. (and isn't even including the shipper option of interlacing Kara's story with actual shots of Mon-El trying to get back to her or being in peril => but even if you throw that away because people want less Mon-El screentime, as I explained there's plenty of completely different roads they could take to add urgency and tension) 

The problem is that the show didn't go for any of that and as a result I detect a certain aimlessness. Just having more nice scenes between women isn't actually all that interesting if it isn't properly embedded into a larger emotional drive. Supergirl season 1 actually did that very well with the Astra storyline. Supergirl season 3 to me so far feels like the perfect example of why just raising the numbers or checking off items on a list is really worthless if it's not part of an actually larger vision. 

Again, maybe I'm wrong and either the Edge or the Sam storyline will finally pick up. But those are the potential structural problems I see with the writing of season 3 so far. IMO not following up more directly to the whole Sam's nightmare cliffhanger was a big mistake to me. They should have had Sam having nightmares throughout episode 2 as well. Or use Psi to show us another glimpse of that nightmare.  

Now there's also other problems I see (I think both season 1 and season 2 were considerably funnier via Cat and Mon-El, I think Superheroes, but particularly Superman work better if they are set up as underdogs => and just because somebody in the show wants to write stories of women being awesome and supporting each other, doesn't really change that structurally, for the drive of the show it's more powerful to try to set the main lead up as an underdog in some way, imo it's a huge mistake that they got rid of Snapper. He wasn't great, but at least he gave Kara something to struggle against), but the lack of driving storylines, particularly a properly driving villain storyline is the biggest. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by tofutan

[BkWurm1]

T

Quote

The way Supergirl does it is just not compelling writing. And all those nice little scenes between characters you like are pointless if there is no larger drive behind it.

 

Eh, it's the third season.  People know what the show will be like but if they don't connect to the characters, no one is going to watch.  I applaud what they did in this second episode of Supergirl.  They can worry about driving PLOT!! next week.  This week they gave me back my love for the show.  I'll take that over PLOT any day.  

[tofutan]

30 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

T

Eh, it's the third season.  People know what the show will be like but if they don't connect to the characters, no one is going to watch.  I applaud what they did in this second episode of Supergirl.  They can worry about driving PLOT!! next week.  This week they gave me back my love for the show.  I'll take that over PLOT any day.  

It's an action adventure show. You need plot and you need drive. Not everybody watches the show is the kind of fan who wants nothing but for their favorite characters to sit around and have tea together. It's just not good writing. 

If they are going to devote screentime to Sam, a new character we have no reason to be invested in, they have to give us a reason. Now the reason doesn't have to be PLOT. PLOT is one way to do it, but it's not the only one. In the SG forum I for example said that it would have made way more sense to bring in Sam as a reporter. Have her be the experienced reporter Kara can learn from. Because that is a void in the show she could fill. We could like her for filling that void and then get to know her and get to learn to like her for herself. Rather than it resting just on "well, I guess she seems like a nice person". 

Look, maybe I'm wrong, maybe the drop in male viewers is just because of football and they'll be back later (or maybe the streaming numbers are really good). I like the show, the characters, the actors, so for their sake I hope that changes. 

But looking at the show, those are the potential structural problems I see. When the lead has a relatively passive, navel gazing storyline then you need other characters to pick up the slack. This should be Sam's job, but imo they are failing at it. Us getting to know the villain as a normal person sounds like a really cool concept and I approve of that in theory, but in practice, to me they have failed to make the necessary moves to make it work. Not because it is impossible to do, but because the writing is poor. Not in the traditional "oh plothole" or "oh, out of character" kind of way, but in the way of properly building up tension and interest.  

Maybe there'll be a good, plot related reason why Sam needs to work at L-Corp (maybe she abuses L-Corp infrastructure to find out more about her past or something) rather than them going for the more logical choice to put her at CatCo from the start (nothing would have been more logical than Lena, who herself says she's inexperienced to hire some media expert as her right hand woman to help her at CatCo), but so far the choice seems really unfortunate to me. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by tofutan

[BkWurm1]

13 minutes ago, tofutan said:

It's an action adventure show. You need plot and you need drive. Not everybody watches the show is the kind of fan who wants nothing but for their favorite characters to sit around and have tea together. It's just not good writing. 

It's a good thing that there were bank robberies and crazy cranes and hallucinatory snakes as well then.  I don't think this particular episode was as much of a naval gazer as suggested.  I get the confusion of why are we learning about Sam and her kid before we understand what her place on the show will be but just because they did her introduction differently, doesn't IMO mean they did it wrong. 

Personally, I'm so tired of meeting someone that seems like a good guy and then at the end of the episode you find out they have A SECRET!!!  I like the change of approach.  If they dragged it out past the second episode before they tied Sam directly into the story, I might have a different opinion but I think this was a story that worked better with room to breath rather than try to hype up in importance the Bad guy of the week when she was never important.  What happened to Kara because of Psi was what was important.  That was the drive of the episode. The character moments and the inner reflection was the point.  

 And with Sam, we are coming into this on equal footing with the character.  That she really isn't hiding superpowers (that she knows of) is the point.  She is for all intents and purposes, exactly what she seems.  Only she won't be and that's where the pathos will come from and I don't think the character would have that had they followed the normal TV101 rule book.

Next week will return to a focus on action and adventure.  I don't see anything wrong with changing things up sometimes.   

[bijoux]

You guys, who can explain this to me?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/920471090744274944

? Like, why would she keep that photo? 

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, bijoux said:

You guys, who can explain this to me?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/920471090744274944

? Like, why would she keep that photo? 

Lol.  She liked how her bangs looked??

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

? Like, why would she keep that photo?

She didn't have a photo of Oliver, so she pasted a photo of his head onto her dad's body in a photo with her, Laurel, and her dad?

[BkWurm1]

So Barry and Iris in couple's therapy wasn't funny at all as far as I could tell.  They just seemed awkward and then it was just sad. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

What's the context of that photo? Was that in last night's episode? Do everybody on the Waverider know their history or does Sara have to explain how Oliver was banging both her and her sister way back when (and that they both went back for seconds)?  

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

She didn't have a photo of Oliver, so she pasted a photo of his head onto her dad's body in a photo with her, Laurel, and her dad?

Sure, since that's always been such a positive trio. Who amongst us wouldn't keep a heartwarming photo with her dead sister and the dead sister's boyfrind you used to bang, and this banging lead to years of mental and physical torture for you both? I know I would.

Edited October 18, 2017 by bijoux

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

So Barry and Iris in couple's therapy wasn't funny at all as far as I could tell.  They just seemed awkward and then it was just sad. 

Yeah, the funnier part was the commentary during Barry's suit malfunctions and even then it was really short.

2 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What's the context of that photo? Was that in last night's episode?

Tonight's episode of LoT. The Time Bureau agent saw it and commented on it, presuming that Laurel was her sister, and Sara responded that it was them with their friend Oliver.

Edited October 18, 2017 by way2interested

[SmallScreenDiva]

8 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Tonight's episode of LoT. The Time Bureau agent saw it and commented on it, presuming that Laurel was her sister, and Sara responded that it was them with their friend Oliver.

That's hella awkward. I mean, get a photo with you and your sister and maybe another of you and Oliver but don't remind people (especially viewers) of the toxic mess that is the Lance Sisters and Ollie Queen with one cheesy shot.

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

 

Tonight's episode of LoT. The Time Bureau agent saw it and commented on it, presuming that Laurel was her sister, and Sara responded that it was them with their friend Oliver.

My sister and I were very close. We shared everything.

[Mellowyellow]

Omg that is freaky weird!

Goes to show how much TPTB (don't) care about that particular storyline though. They continue to highlight how awful it was without giving it a second thought. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[Trini]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

Except that they aren't getting much bang for their buck.  Each individual episode ends up having fewer sets and speaking parts/extras than Riverdale and looks considerably worse than The 100 or Jane the Virgin.  And that's without even considering a few of tonight's more interesting moments with that cyber toothed tiger. 

Well, Flash has to also pay for that new flash suit and numerous special effects. Hence, every other thing happening at STAR Labs. (They really need to get out of there.)

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What's the context of that photo? Was that in last night's episode? Do everybody on the Waverider know their history or does Sara have to explain how Oliver was banging both her and her sister way back when (and that they both went back for seconds)?  

To remind everyone in the Arrowverse that Laurel is dead, dead, dead and no worries she's not coming back? Oh and that imposter running around killing police officers and being a lackey for another big bad is in fact NOT Laurel and not going to be a Black Canary because Laurel is DEAD and replaced by our shiny new Black Canary Dinah Drake who's totes going to hook up with Larry Lance  Because Comics! ?

Just a guess.

[strikera0]

Looks like Zari will be involved in the crossover, too:

[Sakura12]

Wasn't she on the poster? I figured she would be since she's part of Legends by then. 

[quarks]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

Well, Flash has to also pay for that new flash suit and numerous special effects. Hence, every other thing happening at STAR Labs. (They really need to get out of there.)

[Waves Equity and WGA cards around frantically] guys, I know how television budgets work, thanks. I get this. 

The 100 has to also pay for numerous special effects and large battle scenes - and incidentally, its budget is reportedly about $200,000 less per episode than Flash's. And Arrow in its first two seasons also had to pay for new costumes and numerous special effects - and still pulled off great shots. For that matter, in its first season, Flash was a better looking show. 

And look, part of the problem is the decision to share sets.  When you share sets, that immediately reduces the time you can spend on lighting/rehearsal work in that set and so on. 

 

8 hours ago, tofutan said:

Look, maybe I'm wrong, maybe the drop in male viewers is just because of football and they'll be back later (or maybe the streaming numbers are really good).

With Supergirl in particular, I don't think the CW is concerned with the demo/male viewers; the overall issue there is overall viewers, since Supergirl's merchandise is specifically aimed at women/girls.

Edited October 18, 2017 by quarks

[Velocity23]

Iris not being on the Mayor Queen might be the Green Arrow story with an exclusive interview is such a waste. 

[Cleanqueen]

Does Zari have powers or fighting abilities? I am not sure why she would be involved in that scene?

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

Does Zari have powers or fighting abilities?

She's supposed to, and even in the promo for next week's LoT it looks like she has a magic amulet too. 

[Sakura12]

8 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Does Zari have powers or fighting abilities? I am not sure why she would be involved in that scene?

Zari is supposed to have powers from a mystical source. I'm guessing she'll have them by the crossover. Or most likely she'll discover her powers in her first episode like Nate. 

[JJ928]

So I dropped Flash a while ago & would only watch Iris scenes and ff everything else lol. But I did watch the last two eps, just because it promised a lot of Iris, and also for context for 'Girls Night' ep. I didn't think it was possible but I hate Barry more after last night. Iris could do so much better, I wish they'd kill/replace Barry with a better more attractive version lol. That said, the last two episodes have been glorious for me as an Iris fan. I think she'd had more screen time these 2 eps than all of season 2.

Edited October 18, 2017 by JJ928

[Cleanqueen]

So another Tech person with powers? I guess Felicity is the only one who isn't allowed to be in that club, which I am glad for tbh, makes her unique.

Just watched the Flash, there were a lot of parts I liked but I didn't like how they handled the couples therapy part. I was taken aback by Iris saying the main reason she was mad was at Barry was that he left her to go to Speed Force before discussing it with her...when was he supposed to discuss it with her and what was she supposed to say. I wanted her to actually voice her concerns about what it meant to be almost killed by an evil version of your fiancee or all the trauma they've been through since flashpoint. But nope, all we got was "You're not the Flash, We are" and "we're barry and iris, we're the gold standard". I dont understand how we're supposed to believe once session solved their issues and they get married in 4 episodes. 

Another big pet peeve I have with this show is how they treat Wally, what's the point of a sidekick, if he stays unconscious for half the fight scenes?

Edited October 18, 2017 by Cleanqueen