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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Ratings will be out in about 20 minutes, so here's the results of the polls:

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ETA:  There will be one more "Guess the Ratings" poll, for the Arrow premiere tomorrow night, but I'll post the link for that one in the regular Arrow Ratings thread tonight when I get it set up.

Edited by Starfish35
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Starfish35

Starfish35

7 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

LOT beat Supergirl in the demo, 

 I wonder if that will be a trend that will continue.  

Now it's really interesting to see what Arrow gets.  If Arrow can get at least a 0.6, Supergirl will be the lowest rated of the CW DC shows this week.

After being pessimistic with the Supergirl ratings, I was too optimistic with my guesses for last night.  I'd guessed 1.1 and 0.7.

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Guest

Guest

I guessed 1.1 for Flash and 0.6 for LOT so I was right on one. Haha. I think LOT is pretty steady with its viewers and demo tbh. I have a feeling Arrow will be steady, too. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Writer is a self-proclaimed "Marvel guy"...

Face It: Marvel’s TV Universe Will Never Be As Good As DC’s
By Brett White  Oct 11, 2017
https://decider.com/2017/10/11/face-it-marvels-tv-universe-will-never-be-as-good-as-dcs/

Quote

While I certainly like a few of the Marvel TV shows (Daredevil and Jessica Jones) more than any of the CW/DC shows, I marvel (pun!) at the way the CW’s shows replicate the shared superhero universes of the comics on the small screen. To see why the CW’s works, let’s look at the two universes side-by-side.
*  *  *
So, the CW has four shows on one network. Marvel has/had 12 shows on four different networks, as well as 16 feature films (although don’t think too much about those). You see why one is easier to follow then the other, right? The CW’s streamlined lineup–which, I point out, still includes four different shows!–is why the CW soars. Marvel’s lineup is all over the metaphorical cable dial, and it is anchored to the MCU movies to the detriment of all.
*  *  *
Here’s a hot take that actually shouldn’t be hot at all: Marvel’s movies are so much better than DC’s. Surprisingly, though, that actually works in DC’s favor when it comes to TV shows, and less so with Marvel’s. DC’s movies can be as gloomy as they want to be and that doesn’t tarnish the tight-knit CW continuity. And since the CW shows are their own thing, you never watch them waiting for movie characters to show up that you really know will never show up. And even though Wonder Woman and Batman are noticeably absent, the CW shows are populated with enough major DC Comics characters (Superman, The Flash, Arrow, a half dozen Canaries) that they don’t feel lacking for star power.
*  *  *
Marvel’s movies are tied to all their TV shows, but they’re only tied in name only. #ItsAllConnected was a mantra/slogan that Marvel put out there back when S.H.I.E.L.D. launched to hype all the forthcoming TV content. For a while it all did feel connected: Nick Fury and Sif and Maria Hill all stopped by the ABC show in its first two seasons. Then the TV lineup expanded and the gulf between movies and TV widened. Now it’s impossible to even get the TV shows to crossover. The Netflix shows are totally separate from the ABC shows, it’s hard to pin down if the Hulu and Freeform shows really take place in the MCU, and none of them crossover with the movies. It’s not all connected, but there’s still the expectation that it is. There’s still the hope that Luke Cage will appear in Avengers: Infinity War or Scarlett Johansson will do a stint on Daredevil or, I dunno, even that Quake will meet Medusa. Instead, fans are given some Easter egg dialogue (most of these shows have referred to the NYC battle in Avengers as The Incident at one point or another) and that’s it. Fans have been told #ItsAllConnected, so fans watch these shows hoping to see those connections–and they rarely, usually never, come.
*  *  *
All that is why I appreciate what the that DC foursome pull off week in and week out on the CW. They don’t get as heavy as Jessica Jones or hit the heights of a Luke Cage or Daredevil, and it was genuinely cool to see movie characters on S.H.I.E.L.D. a few times, but the CW shows also free from the kinds of synergy distractions and confusing continuity that plagues the MCU as it grows and grows. What you see is what you get on the CW: four shows starring superheroes that cross over regularly and don’t feel like the B-leagues compared to the movies. The CW-verse promised a shared superhero universe, and it delivers on it in every single way.

Edited by tv echo
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Featherhat

Featherhat

Both couples are sharing what appears to be a very hasty but happy/mutual decision to get married right then and there together without any of their other friends/family. Both have had proposals, build up to weddings, separations/break ups, fake weddings/invaded by Nazi weddings etc and both sets of writers can choose to continue the celebrations they missed out on on their own shows or begin whatever drama they might have planned. 

At this point the WestAllen official wedding day has been very thoroughly ruined by Nazis and the death of another character anyway, and they're technically *both* happening on LOT. 

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Guest

Guest

I could understand the anger if it was WA's actual wedding day and Iris is up there in her wedding gown and Barry's in his tux and O/F interrupt and say "Oh, do you mind if we get married too?" But that's not what's happening. None of us want this double wedding but I'm getting super annoyed over this idea that somehow it's only WA who is missing out here. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

I like these ratings polls, @Starfish35. I hope you continue them! 

Thank you! :)  

I actually wasn't intending to continue them past premiere week.  I figured people would rapidly get tired of them cluttering up the thread.  Lol.  I suppose if there was enough of an interest and the mods didn't mind?  I don't know.

23 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Half a dozen Canaries. Lol. 

Yeah I snorted at that too. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I'm never going to complain about Arrow getting basic facts wrong after that episode of The Flash.  Snark yes, but not complain.

Cisco said that Caitlyn had "two doctorates and a PhD".  A PhD is a doctorate, a medical degree is a medical degree and you only get one of them because why would you do the same courses twice?  There are two universities in Vancouver, couldn't they ask someone in the crew to get it right?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Post grad or including undergrad?  But even with that she still wouldn't need another MD.  They also forget that it's not enough just to be smart, you have to put in the hours on the internships and research.

Caitlyn's never been an engineer though, that's Cisco.  She's never build any of the equipment they use.  She's the team doctor.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

33 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Both couples are sharing what appears to be a very hasty but happy/mutual decision to get married right then and there together without any of their other friends/family. Both have had proposals, build up to weddings, separations/break ups, fake weddings/invaded by Nazi weddings etc and both sets of writers can choose to continue the celebrations they missed out on on their own shows or begin whatever drama they might have planned. 

At this point the WestAllen official wedding day has been very thoroughly ruined by Nazis and the death of another character anyway, and they're technically *both* happening on LOT. 

I'm not counting it as a LoT episode since it's supossed to be more like a 2 day movie special, instead of indivual episodes. 

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

I think 7-10 years after undergrad.  From the Arrowverse wiki http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Caitlin_Snow

she's a bioengineer.  Bioengineers don't necesarily build equipment.  Bioengineering can include engineering viruses, genetically modified cells, and vaccines on a molecular level.  I'd say from what she's done in Flash, she's more of a biomedical engineer rather than just doctor because she performs medical scientist duties such as medical support as well developing cures in the lab which could include being an MD as well as a doctorate in bioengineering methods.

Edited by ComicFan777
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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

Caitlin's medical career never made sense to me because you can't skip parts of US medical training due to advanced ability or intelligence like Felicity graduating with a master's degree at 19. She could have gone to a foreign medical school that doesn't require a four year undergrad but otherwise 4 years of med school + residency to be a doctor and if she skipped residency to do research she shouldn't be operating on people in hospitals. It is a very set in stone track. 

ETA: Also, yes expecting career realism from Flarrowverse shows is a fool's errand, I know, I know. 

ETA2: OMG according to the wiki, she's supposed to be a neurosurgeon? 

Edited by leopardprint
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lemotomato

lemotomato

Now that we've seen pap photos of the wedding, I'm going to throw a theory out there-- what if it's Oliver and Felicity that decide on a spur-of-the-moment wedding and Barry/Iris are the ones that tag along? Assuming they're in Central City, if Barry and Iris are the ones that initiate, it doesn't make much sense for Joe and the rest of Team Flash to not be there. And it would explain why Diggle is officiating. 

I don't even know why I'm trying to make sense of a impromptu double wedding, but I'll be amused if it turns out all the "WA has to share their wedding with Olicity, how ruuuuude!" complaining  turns out to be for nothing.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Now that we've seen pap photos of the wedding, I'm going to throw a theory out there-- what if it's Oliver and Felicity that decide on a spur-of-the-moment wedding and Barry/Iris are the ones that tag along?

Please let it be this!  i'm so tired of people putting down Olicity for stealing Barry and Iris' wedding day.

I looked it up:  at UBC you can get a biomedical PhD in 7 - + years but you don't get an MD, it's pure bio and engineering.  So add 4 years of medical school and another 3 or 4 of residency and Caitlyn would have to have been in her 30s when the show started.

Caitlyn and Cisco synthesized the mirakuru cure and she was taking care of Barry when he was in the coma and has since then been doing primarily doctor stuff.  Having her be a biomedical engineer duplicates their skill set and leaves out something like immunology which would be useful with the metahumans.

11 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

you can't skip parts of US medical training due to advanced ability or intelligence like Felicity graduating with a master's degree at 19.

Yeah.  I'm tired of having to suspend my disbelief about the Flash's storylines when a little research would fix it.

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Now that we've seen pap photos of the wedding, I'm going to throw a theory out there-- what if it's Oliver and Felicity that decide on a spur-of-the-moment wedding and Barry/Iris are the ones that tag along? Assuming they're in Central City, if Barry and Iris are the ones that initiate, it doesn't make much sense for Joe and the rest of Team Flash to not be there. And it would explain why Diggle is officiating. 

I don't even know why I'm trying to make sense of a impromptu double wedding, but I'll be amused if it turns out all the "WA has to share their wedding with Olicity, how ruuuuude!" complaining  turns out to be for nothing.

I'm supporting your theory just for the pettiness factor. Nice work! ??

Edited by leopardprint
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JenMD

JenMD

17 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm not counting it as a LoT episode since it's supossed to be more like a 2 day movie special, instead of indivual episodes. 

They can say all they want that it's going to feel like a 4 hour movie event, but it's 4 episodes of 4 separate tv shows.  Olicity and WestAllen are getting married on an episode of LOT, a show they are not regulars on, which I will forever think is one of the stupidest things these showrunners have done.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

I think it's going to be something like Felicity telling Iris "now that everything is over you can have your wedding" and Iris replying that the same could be said about her and Oliver..or the same conversation happening between Oliver and Barry..I think during the crossover or the bacherolette party they could talk about Oliver and Felicity's desire to get married as well so I could see Barry or Iris bringing it up. The characters are friends..from the pics they look happy for themselves and for the other couple..I'm sure the fans will find a way to blame the other couple anyway but I don't think it will be a scenario of one couple being forced to share their wedding..

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LeighAn

LeighAn

(edited)
57 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I could understand the anger if it was WA's actual wedding day and Iris is up there in her wedding gown and Barry's in his tux and O/F interrupt and say "Oh, do you mind if we get married too?" But that's not what's happening. None of us want this double wedding but I'm getting super annoyed over this idea that somehow it's only WA who is missing out here. 

Im sure there are a number of reasons why people hate this wedding in its entirety or for one couple over the other. From my own perspective of some of the fans/outlets pushing the WA wedding has been 'stolen' or their the only ones having to share my opinion is that there was an expectation that this was going to be a special day for one couple and one couple only and that was dandy but now some are learning that actually the network and the producers value and feel the audience and media value more then one couple in this universe.  It's no longer about just one super special couple but a celebration of both show defining romances and one that's not a comic book predetermined romance. So some fans feel 'robbed' but the fact is there is more then one beloved couple in this universe and the powers that be want to honor and celebrate that and this is how they've chosen to do it.  

 

I get that the Flash wedding was set up last season and is driving the shows narrative this year so it creates a feeling of being robbed or having to share and that's probably on the producers but the fact that some ignore that Olicity has been a romantically explored relationship longer then the Flash has been on air and were just over a year ago a hairs breath from being married and in the current season are creating a family unit with Olivers son I don't think WA is more entitled to be married then Olicity and vice versa.

 

For me it's not what I wanted- because who wants Barry at your wedding- but at least if they are going to do the cheesy awkward double wedding it's done privately and not with all the Arrowverse characters there to make it even more cheesy and lame. Plus Olicity are just so darn in love and happy and it feels moving just from the pictures that I think it'll work on screen.

Edited by LeighAn
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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)
Quote

I looked it up:  at UBC you can get a biomedical PhD in 7 - + years but you don't get an MD, it's pure bio and engineering.  So add 4 years of medical school and another 3 or 4 of residency and Caitlyn would have to have been in her 30s when the show started.

At Johns Hopkins, you get a MD-PhD - https://www.bme.jhu.edu/graduate/md-phd/

Other places that have both can be found here:

https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-medical-school/article/mdphd-degree-programs-state/

I was considering this program once upon a time, so there are programs out there that have both medical and bioengineering concentrations combined in a single program. 

Edited by ComicFan777
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ruby24

ruby24

Well, Diggle is at least there for O/F. I don't think it's right that WA get married without the presence of at the VERY least, Joe.

Which is why I hope this interrupted wedding goes right up to the VERY last second, like right before the guy's able to say "I now pronounce you husband and wife." So that there can even be vows and a ring exchange (although nobody seems to be wearing any rings at all for this last minute wedding).

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I don't care about either couple, so none of that matters to me. I can turn off the episode after Stein's funeral when the Legends leave. 

I guess Stein's getting a big send off since everyone is there of his funeral while only the couples and Diggle are there for their weddings.  Joe is going to be pissed he missed his son's wedding. 

Edited by Sakura12
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)
18 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Apparently no Mon-El in the crossover

Well there is that at least.

That's impressive, @ComicFan777.  Where did you go in the end?

33 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

At Johns Hopkins, you get a MD-PhD - https://www.bme.jhu.edu/graduate/md-phd/

I was considering this program once upon a time, so there are programs out there that have both medical and bioengineering.  

Edited by statsgirl
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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)
Quote

That's impressive, @ComicFan777.  Where did you go in the end?

UC, San Diego for bioengineering and chemical physics...kinda dropped the medical part when I realized that blood made me too quesy.

Edited by ComicFan777
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

Now that we've seen pap photos of the wedding, I'm going to throw a theory out there-- what if it's Oliver and Felicity that decide on a spur-of-the-moment wedding and Barry/Iris are the ones that tag along? Assuming they're in Central City, if Barry and Iris are the ones that initiate, it doesn't make much sense for Joe and the rest of Team Flash to not be there. And it would explain why Diggle is officiating. 

I don't even know why I'm trying to make sense of a impromptu double wedding, but I'll be amused if it turns out all the "WA has to share their wedding with Olicity, how ruuuuude!" complaining  turns out to be for nothing.

I'd love for this to be the case. Like, Oliver learns his "true love" lesson and asks Felicity to marry him, again. Or maybe they have a convo or proposal in a previous episode or earlier in the crossover and they decide to keep things slow, baby steps, etc. etc. And after the events of the crossover, he tells Felicity, "Let's not wait anymore." She agrees and they ask Digg. Barry and Iris hear them and look at each other and go "why wait to fix the ruined wedding, we can have it right here, right now." Voila, double wedding without anybody stealing thunders or whatever :P 

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leopardprint

leopardprint

I think @lemotomato is on the right track because Barry has to speed Digg there so that suggests it's a last minute decision to get married Olicity because why would Barry go get Diggle to marry him and Iris? Unless Oliver is going to use his Mayoral privileges (in another city) to marry W/A? 

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