Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Primal Slayer]

Sounds very familiar lol. Didn't they want to introduce Lois earlier in the series then they were allowed to? 

It's fun (not really) to think back to the conspiracy theories that Chloe would turn into Lois Lane, even after Lois was actually introduced to the show.

[Chaser]

IMO Chloe was the better Lois Lane the same way Sara was the better Black Canary. But Comics.

[tofutan]

I didn't like Smallville enough to ship non-canon couples. I liked Chloe, I liked the non-awful parts of Chlark, but something like Chlex just never had enough meat to me. 

Clex is another thing that to me was just never good in canon. I don't know. I just didn't find their relationship on the show very believable. I actually have some pretty similar issues with Kara and Lena on Supergirl, though I hope they will fix that in season 3 now that Lena is a regular. 

I liked Clois well enough. I've never been somebody who buys into "morality shipping". As in "Clark should be with Chloe rather than Lois because Chloe is the better person". I think the show found a good alternative in giving Chloe Ollie to reward her/give her her own endgame. 

Yeah, Lois might not have been the best person but the dynamic between her and Clark was still fun to me. Also, the show was just heavily warped around Lana, so it was basically required to not make Lois too  perfect because by the time she came around TPTB were still all over Lana. So I actually liked Lois being scrappy, staying on and clawing her way into her OTP (on a metalevel). 

Quote

IMO Chloe was the better Lois Lane the same way Sara was the better Black Canary. But Comics.

I don't think that it was just the comics though. I think TPTB of Smallville also never had any intention of replacing Lana with Chloe as the core heroine of their show. Not because comics but because unlike the audience they were all over Lana. It just didn't fit their framework, their vision to uproot that for "no wait, actually Chloe is the bestest and everybody else sucks". 

IMO it's not comparable to Arrow. Arrow always felt to me like they had to put Laurel in because comics, but they never truly "felt" her. When they changed her so much from what she is in the comics it felt more like TPTB were trying to find a way to make her interesting to themselves and failed. While on Smallville putting Lana in there and changing her from the comics, it seemed more like defiance of the comics according to their tastes. And that's why TPTB stayed committed to Lana and Clana for so long. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by tofutan

[Chaser]

33 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I liked Clois well enough. I've never been somebody who buys into "morality shipping". As in "Clark should be with Chloe rather than Lois because Chloe is the better person". I think the show found a good alternative in giving Chloe Ollie to reward her/give her her own endgame. 

I don't think that it was just the comics though. I think TPTB of Smallville also never had any intention of replacing Lana with Chloe as the core heroine of their show. Not because comics but because unlike the audience they were all over Lana. It just didn't fit their framework, their vision to uproot that for "no wait, actually Chloe is the bestest and everybody else sucks". 

I'm not sure "morality shipping" was in response to my comparison of Chloe v Lois but I'm going to respond as if it was. That wasn't about who was better for Clark. I was adressing my frustrations with Lois apart from Clois, since it seemed most assumed issues with Lois were ship related. 

I would agrue that while Lana was the female lead of the show, Chloe was the Heroine. 

The Chloe v Lois thing. I didn't need Chloe to be Lois, I just needed Lois to be a better Lois.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Chaser

[Trini]

53 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It's fun (not really) to think back to the conspiracy theories that Chloe would turn into Lois Lane, even after Lois was actually introduced to the show.

Giiirrrrrrllllllll, I'm so glad you put that "not really" in there!

[Starfish35]

I've never had a side on the Chloe vs Lois thing, but my main opinion has always been that they should not have had them both on the show at the same time.  Either Chloe should have died at the end of season three for real (ouch! Hold the stones!), or they should not have brought Lois on for more than the rare guest appearance.   They just shouldn't have tried to have them both.  

I also believe that Clana should never have continued past season three and that they should have had Clark move on with either Chloe or Lois after season three or four, instead of dragging Clana out for yeeeeeeeearrrrrrrrrrrs.  

(I feel like the 84 years gif is appropriate here)

Edited September 29, 2017 by Starfish35

[Guest]

This whole discussion makes me glad I never watched Smallville. ?

[Chaser]

22 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I've never had a side on the Chloe vs Lois thing, but my main opinion has always been that they should not have had them both on the show at the same time.  Either Chloe should have died at the end of season three for real (ouch! Hold the stones!), or they should not have brought Lois on for more than the rare guest appearance.   They just shouldn't have tried to have them both.  

I also believe that Clana should never have continued past season three and that they should have had Clark move on with either Chloe or Lois after season three or four, instead of dragging Clana out for yeeeeeeeearrrrrrrrrrrs.  

(I feel like the 84 years gif is appropriate here)

I'm going to go with guest appearances by Lois would have worked better.

All I could think about was Sara dying so Laurel could be BC. Chloe dying so Lois could be there would not work for me.

13 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This whole discussion makes me glad I never watched Smallville. ?

Smallville requires selective viewing for sure. Lol

[Primal Slayer]

It was definitely of its time and I guess the "Golden Age"? of superhero tv? lol

It was so cool to watch back then but soooooo corny and laughable now. 

[catrox14]

I loved Smallville but I wasn't a shipper on the show other than CLex and Lex & Jason. LOL

I just watched for Clark and Lex and Lana annoyed me. I was indifferent to Chloe. Jason made Lana tolerable IMO, and I like Tess a lot.

[tofutan]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I'm not sure "morality shipping" was in response to my comparison of Chloe v Lois but I'm going to respond as if it was. That wasn't about who was better for Clark. I was adressing my frustrations with Lois apart from Clois, since it seemed most assumed issues with Lois were ship related. 

I would agrue that while Lana was the female lead of the show, Chloe was the Heroine. 

The Chloe v Lois thing. I didn't need Chloe to be Lois, I just needed Lois to be a better Lois.

Well the writers obviously had a better take on that. I think they had Chloe pegged into a hole and they just steadfastedly refused to take her out of there. I think they gave Chloe as much as they could possibly give her within the context of that role they saw for her, but they could not actually change her role. 

I don't think that there is much use in forcing writers to do things they don't want the result usually isn't much better than the awful misguided stuff they are writing, but at least want to write. And the Smallville TPTB obviously wanted to write Clark and Lana as this tragic romance. That's the story they wanted to tell. And in the end they were the ones who put in all the work to get the show off the ground. I might not really have enjoyed this part of the story, but in the end it is their show. And they kept the show afloat for like what, 10 seasons?  If that's what makes them happy I think they have the right to tell that story. And everybody who thinks that story X, Y or Z would have worked better should put their energy into getting their own show off the ground and see how easy it really is. 

And Smallville I think did lay a lot of groundwork in proving that those type of shows could work (yes, even if Lois and Clark was first) without which we wouldn't have the Flarrowverse shows. 

I personally also skipped out on a lot of middle years because Clana made me groan. But since the show maintained enough ratings it seems like that wasn't everybody's choice. 

[Starfish35]

So episode #2 descriptions are out.  Arrow's has been posted in the Spoiler thread, but here are the other three:

SUPERGIRL

Quote

“Triggers” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, DV) (HDTV)
YAEL GROBGLAS (“JANE THE VIRGIN”) GUEST STARS — Psi (guest star Yael Grobglas), a thief with psychic powers, attacks National City. Able to immobilize people by tapping into their worst fears, Psi proves a formidable opponent for Supergirl. Meanwhile, James (Mehcad Brooks) and Lena (Katie McGrath) are at an impasse, and Samantha starts her new job at L-Corp. David McWhirter directed the episode written by Gabriel Llanas & Anna Musky-Goldwyn (#302). Original airdate 10/16/2017.

THE FLASH

Quote

“Mixed Signals” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, DV) (HDTV)
BARRY AND IRIS GO TO COUPLES THERAPY — Barry (Grant Gustin) has his hands full when he takes on a dangerous meta (guest star Dominic Burgess) who can control technology, while also confronting an obstacle in his personal life: the ramifications of abandoning Iris (Candice Patton) for six months to balance the Speed Force. Meanwhile, Gypsy (guest star Jessica Camacho) breaches in for a hot date with Cisco (Carlos Valdes), but she gets annoyed when his work keeps them apart. Alexandra La Roche directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza (#402). Original airdate 10/17/2017.

LEGENDS OF TOMORROW

Quote

“Freakshow” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)
IT’S ALWAYS A CIRCUS — The Legends find themselves in 1870 to fix the anachronism which happens to be at P.T. Barnum’s fledgling circus. However, Nate (Nick Zano) and Ray (Brandon Routh) accidently free a saber toothed tiger, creating a bigger problem.  Meanwhile, P.T. Barnum (guest star Billy Zane) is on the hunt to capture Nate and Ray to make his show even more exciting for the crowd.  Caity Lotz, Maisie Richardson-Sellers, Victor Garber, Dominic Purcell and Franz Drameh also star.  Keith Tancharoen directed the episode written by Keto Shimizu & Grainne Godfree (#302).  Original airdate 10/17/2017.

[Starfish35]

Supergirl actually sounds the most interesting - what could the issue be between James and Lena?  Wild speculation - Lena bought out CatCo and now is James' new boss?

Legends - I am not looking forward to this one.  I know I'm weird but I just don't really care for the circus.  And more Nate/Ray hijinks! Oh. Yay.

[Mellowyellow]

Why do must they foist Nate on my beloved Ray? Is Ray not allowed to have any friends besides Nate now? Go away Nate! I know Ray will be adorbs in it because he always is but I'm grizzling at the prospect of a season with him having to bond with Nate again! 

Is it bad that I read about James and Lena and think "ooh I can totally ship that!" Such good looking people!

[tofutan]

I've always wanted to see Lena and James smolder at each other, just to see what it would look like, they both have this smolder-y vibe to them. Still think it they will go for James/Reign, not James/Lena. 

Not a fan of the potential of Lena buying CatCo though. It reminds me of Lex in an uncomfortable ("I just solve all problems by buying anything I want") way. 

I was reading up the episode titles for SG season 3 on the Arrowverse Wiki. They said in the "spoilers for season 3" section that apparently they said Cadmus would still play a role in season 3. But neither Dean Cain nor Brenda Strong have been rumored to be shooting anything so far for Supergirl, right? 

Edited September 29, 2017 by tofutan

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

It was definitely of its time and I guess the "Golden Age"? of superhero tv? lol

It was so cool to watch back then but soooooo corny and laughable now. 

They did the supermodel walk! And I know see that Ollie was of the fingerless gloves school of thought before Arrow's LL.

As for episode summaries, Supergirl got Yael Groblas? I dropped JtV, but she's such a fun actress.

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Chlollie

Chlavis - seriously? No love for Davis?! ?

Chlex

Chlark

Aww!  Poor Davis.  Yeah, Chlavis was great except for killing her in one time line and the show messing the character up in the last episode to the point the actor wouldn't return the following year to play Zod which would have been a whole other year of work.  

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Sounds very familiar lol. Didn't they want to introduce Lois earlier in the series then they were allowed to? 

It's fun (not really) to think back to the conspiracy theories that Chloe would turn into Lois Lane, even after Lois was actually introduced to the show.

Actually, the opposite.   Last minute between season three and four they were told to include her, not because they suddenly wanted her, but because of a lawsuit and the lawyers thought including Lois strengthened their claim that they hadn't overstepped Superboy's copyrighted material since Lois was from Superman.   They ultimately lost the case and had to pay royalties.  

Though when it comes to the Chloe will be revealed as Lois theories, the show runners have said they had been playing around with the idea before giving it up so I can't help wonder how the show would have looked if there had been less behind the scenes meddling.  

I know I couldn't accept that the official Lois in the show as the official Lois.  She was too far from the character she needed to be.  And It's not a case of having to roll with a different take on the character because when they eventually got around to making her the love interest they then abandoned her original characterization and basically wrote her as Chloe retconning both her professional history and her personality in the last couple season to the point where it was practically a different show.  Yes I remain very bitter.  Not just because I didn't get what I wanted but the show was rewriting its own history and characters in a way that insisted the viewer was the crazy one for pointing out all the lightswitches and retcons.  Everything was supposed to be accepted "because comics". Sincerely messed with my head how Willing people were to accept that as the explanation for all the stuff that didn't make sense.  

Edited September 29, 2017 by BkWurm1

[tofutan]

As a casual watcher of the later season of Smallville (as in: I haven't seen every single episode, I noped out of entire arcs) I can't say I noticed it that much.  Lois "vibe" still seemed pretty similar to me compared to when she was introduced, (with some growing up I guess) except the show now treated her as a love interest. 

To me the change when Smallville's Ollie was introduced and it felt like everything was suddenly about him felt a lot more jarring. 

I also found Jimmy really irritating. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by tofutan

[Midnight Lullaby]

I was a casual viewer too and I liked Clois and Tess and Oliver. I haven't watched the latest seasons though. I've never considered Chloe and Clark as a potential couple and I couldn't stand Lana. I think I stopped watching because I grew too tired of seeing her.

[tofutan]

Yeah, I have a hard time believing that the writers ever genuinely considered making Chloe Lois. They just didn't treat Chloe with enough reverence for that, imo. 

From what I understand Clois really only got full force after Gough&Millar left, which feels about right. I think if it was up to them, it would have been Lana till the very end. 

My big Smallville break from an obsessive viewer to a casual one came around season 3. I remember watching season 1 and thinking the show was trying to be wanna smart, with all the symbolism. Then I realized that it was stupid and imo there was another break when the show moved to Metropolis and did the whole Blur thing (and then I guess again one more time when G&M left).  

I started to appreciate the show more in the later years when they did more cooky comic stuff and I stopped expecting it to be deep or smart. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by tofutan

[Starfish35]

37 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I think if it was up to them, it would have been Lana till the very end.

That's always kind of what I thought as well.

[Morrigan2575]

Prisoners? Some device that allows them to travel between Earths?

Edited September 29, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Featherhat]

I was only a casual watcher of Smallville, though I had a couple of friends who were big fans. I love Lois and Clark together in almost any incarnation but I really disliked them together in Smallville and would have been fine if they had Clark end up with someone else, though I didn't really like any of his other interests either or that they would ever consider Chloe by that point. I guess it showed me then that even the biggest "canon" couples can just not work for me in different mediums or interpretations. 

As for their BC she wasn't exactly comics canon either was she? Obviously they didn't end up together so Arrow isn't the first to do that (and didn't Chloe punch her or something once?) so I don't entirely see the big outcry over Olicity as if it's something that's never happened before, albeit Ollie wasn't the lead in SV. 

[Primal Slayer]

16 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

 

As for their BC she wasn't exactly comics canon either was she? Obviously they didn't end up together so Arrow isn't the first to do that (and didn't Chloe punch her or something once?) so I don't entirely see the big outcry over Olicity as if it's something that's never happened before, albeit Ollie wasn't the lead in SV. 

That's assuming everyone accepted it as opposed to Olicity . If anything I think them not being together in Smallville added to the bitterness against Olicity since everyone thought "finally!" 

It was dejavu for me since once again I would've been happy to see them together but I was more focused on BC and how they didn't do anything with her lol. 

I liked Lois/Ollie better than I liked Chlollie though. Which is funny they Oliver went from dating cousins in Smallville to sisters in Arrow. 

And yes they had Chloe beat Dinah in hand2hand which made me roll my eyes but I think she may have been possesse by Brainiac at the time?

[tofutan]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

That's always kind of what I thought as well.

Maybe they wouldn't have dared to make it fullblown Clana happy ending, but they probably would have left it open ended with Clark not getting with Lois, leaving it open that maybe Clark would one day try to find Lana again or find somebody completely new. 

Smallville BC was a really minor character. From what I remember she barely played a role at all. From a comic point of view, I found it a bit weird that they "gave" Ollie to Chloe (that's kinda what it felt like to me, they couldn't/didn't want to give her Clark, but all other love interests they tried her with weren't quite good enough either, so they gave her somebody who was at least a "name" in comics), but on the other hand, I was happy for Chloe, because I did think she deserved a happy ending. I think the "weird" from a comic point of view was less "zomg, he has to be with Black Canary" but more "how can I buy this as happily ever after when he clearly isn't with her in the comics". 

Quote

That's assuming everyone accepted it as opposed to Olicity . If anything I think them not being together in Smallville added to the bitterness against Olicity since everyone thought "finally!" 

If you are a GA/BC fan, did you by any chance check out the Injustice 2 computer game? I think that's the healthiest/nicest portrayal of GA/BC I've ever seen. To an extent that it felt almost out of character XD 

Edited September 29, 2017 by tofutan

[Midnight Lullaby]

27 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

 

As for their BC she wasn't exactly comics canon either was she? Obviously they didn't end up together so Arrow isn't the first to do that (and didn't Chloe punch her or something once?) so I don't entirely see the big outcry over Olicity as if it's something that's never happened before, albeit Ollie wasn't the lead in SV. 

There are people around the internet that still insist that Ollie left Chloe and hooked up with Dinah after the show ended, LOL. 

[tv echo]

Larry Teng is directing Supergirl part of crossover...

Edited September 29, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

Can I just say it's soooo much more fun reading debates about Smallville couples then it has been about Arrowverse couples haha. 

[tofutan]

Well, it probably helps that it's in the past. When a show is still going on, it sometimes feels like some fans feel that if they argue well enough online that will totally change the fate of their couple and that's why they can never admit defeat and must slam the opposition. Smallville is over, everybody's fate is already set. You can look back on it with some emotional distance. 

[Mellowyellow]

Agree with that. Sometimes it's not even debating using valid arguments but more repeating things over and over again that simply aren't true.

Like if I keep repeating that Felicity is really an immortal Fairy, it will happen! 

[tv echo]

NEW YORK COMIC CON, October 5-8, 2017 (NY)
http://www.newyorkcomiccon.com 

FYI - here are some DC and Marvel panels scheduled for NYCC...

DC Doomsday Clock (with Geoff Johns)

Hulu and Marvel Television Present Marvel's Runaways

Marvel Television Presents: Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D

Netflix Presents Marvel's The Punisher

Warner Bros. Television Takeover (BlindSpot, Castle Rock, Gotham)

The Gifted

Edited September 29, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

On The Road to Doomsday Clock with Geoff Johns
Published on Sep 22, 2017, by DC

[tv echo]

This is one long article, so I only quoted portions (nutshell version: The problems with the DC movies were not the fault of Geoff Johns and Diane Nelson! And the failure of Green Lantern was not the fault of Greg Berlanti!)...

DC Rethinks Its Universe
By Abraham Riesman  September 29, 2017
http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/dc-wonder-woman-movie-strategy-universe.html

Quote

So what accounts for the contrasting reputations? Perhaps part of the problem is that the movies, until recently, had very little influence from the core DC Entertainment team, who had done so well elsewhere. “It took some work for us to earn our stripes, I think, with the rest of the studio and filmmakers,” says the company’s boyish chief creative officer, Geoff Johns, sitting at a long table alongside a clutch of DC executives in a San Diego Marriott on the first day of this July’s San Diego Comic-Con. But in the past 16 months, they’ve gained significantly more influence on the movie operation, and that change is already bearing fruit. “It’s not chaos,” DC Entertainment president Diane Nelson assures me, seated near Johns. “It’s intentional.”
*  *  *
None of that seems to worry Nelson, and that’s partly because DC and Warner have adopted a new strategy: Let’s rethink that whole universe thing. They’re not giving up on the idea of continuity, but they want to deemphasize the idea that all of these flicks are occupying the same space. “Our intention, certainly, moving forward is using the continuity to help make sure nothing is diverging in a way that doesn’t make sense, but there’s no insistence upon an overall story line or interconnectivity in that universe,” says Nelson, drawing nods from the top brass around her.

This new approach already has a test case, and, by any measure, it was a successful one: Wonder Woman outearned every other movie this summer while scoring a 92 percent on Rotten Tomatoes — higher than nearly every Marvel movie. And one of the keys, as Nelson and her execs saw it, was the fact that it more or less told the viewer to ignore the rest of the universe and just focus on what was in front of them. There was a tiny nod to Batman v Superman, but that was it. “The movie’s not about another movie,” says Johns. “Some of the movies do connect the characters together, like Justice League. But, like with Aquaman” — one of their next efforts, out in 2018 — “our goal is not to connect Aquaman to every movie.” As Nelson puts it, “Moving forward, you’ll see the DC movie universe being a universe, but one that comes from the heart of the filmmaker who’s creating them.”
*  *  *
One of the centerpieces of this new, decentralized strategy is an as-yet-unnamed side label of occasional movies that are completely separate from everything else, set entirely outside the cinematic universe. Total stand-alones based on good ideas from big-name filmmakers. Movies that are just movies, not components of a larger piece of clockwork. The first one they’re talking about is a solo outing about supervillain the Joker, set to be directed and co-written by The Hangover and War Dogs alumnus Todd Phillips. Johns says they’ll be announcing the name of of this side label “soon-ish.”

That all may be welcome news for critics who felt that previous DC outings were too tied up in world-building, but it won’t single-handedly clobber the pessimistic chatter Warner’s superheroes face. While DC Entertainment has experienced tremendous success in TV, comics, and games, when it comes to film, they still have a huge issue with public perception. ...
*  *  *
So, largely shut out from the big screen, Johns and Nelson focused on the small. There, they found salvation in the form of an embittered veteran of Green Lantern. Screenwriter and TV showrunner Greg Berlanti, of Dawson’s Creek and Everwood fame, had co-written the initial passes at the Lantern script and had been set to direct before he was reassigned to another Warner feature and lost control. He was understandably displeased with the finished product and nearly walked away from Warner for good. In a last-ditch effort to hold on to him, Johns, as well as TV execs Peter Roth and Susan Rovner, reached out to Berlanti and encouraged him to pitch a blue-sky idea. A lifelong DC Comics geek, Berlanti said he had been kicking around the notion of adapting the archery-themed crusader Green Arrow.

He got the go-ahead, and he and co-producers Marc Guggenheim and Andrew Kreisberg got to hammer out what went on to become the CW’s Arrow. They would get near-total creative freedom, and there was no talk of tying in to the DC film universe. The show debuted on the CW on October 10, 2012, and within days, it had a full-series order. Johns didn’t just advise creatively, he also wrote episodes for it, and eventually started scheming with Berlanti and Kreisberg to create a spinoff series about DC staple the Flash. It debuted on October 7, 2014, and represented Johns’s biggest involvement in TV yet. A so-called Berlantiverse started to emerge in the next few years, with two more shows set in the same shared cosmos: Supergirl and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow. The shows have earned booming praise from fans, built on a guiding philosophy of, as Warner TV exec Sarah Schechter puts it, “heart, humor, and spectacle.” It’s working — Berlantiverse shows regularly top the ratings charts at the CW.

DC developed a winning strategy on TV, one that presaged their current one for the movies: allowing people to throw a wide variety of approaches at the wall and see what sticks. For example, the Berlanti-produced programs have a shared universe, but Gotham, iZombie, Lucifer, and the upcoming Titans all stand on their own and have wildly different tones from one another. Creators are trusted to make their own decisions about direction and feel, and Johns’s team is seen as a trusted set of partners offering suggestions and constructive criticism, not a draconian office forcing everything to fit into a single shared megastory.
*  *  *
... When BvS flopped critically, there was finally concern about the creative choices that had been made up to that point. Johns and Berg, newly installed, swiftly decided that a core element of their new strategy would be a lightening of the previously sludge-dark mood. All of a sudden, you saw Johns doing interviews where he’d talk about how the DC mythology is built on “hope and optimism.” Berg was on the same page. “We talk about four things,” Berg says. “Heart, heroics, humanity, and humor.”
*  *  *

However, there’s still a spandex-clad elephant in the room: this November’s Justice League. Its optics haven’t been great. Right after BvS’s backlash hit, the fact that Snyder would also be in charge of Justice League cast a pall over the latter effort among the movie commentariat. There were internal discussions about how to revamp parts of the movie. Johns and Berg mulled the idea of having someone other than Snyder write new scenes for the film. By coincidence, the writer-director of Marvel’s The Avengers, Joss Whedon, met with Johns and Berg to discuss creating a movie with them. The pair were game for that (they eventually chose one about Batman ally Batgirl), but later realized they could accomplish another goal: “Everyone was excited about Joss being a part of DC, and we thought he’d be great to write the [Justice League] scenes, the additional-photography scenes that we wanted to get,” Johns recalls.
*  *  *
That choice took on added import when tragedy hit Justice League soon afterward: Snyder’s daughter died by suicide in March of this year. The director remained attached to the film for a few months, but on May 22, he announced he would be departing to grieve, leaving the remainder of the film to Whedon. Since then, rumors about the picture have come out in dribs and drabs: Whedon has allegedly rewritten a third of the film, including the ending; the Justice League sequel that was announced in 2014 was very notably not mentioned at a Comic-Con presentation, compounding speculation that it’s not going to happen; there are reports of expensive, difficult-to-coordinate, last-minute reshoots; and so on. DC and Warner don’t comment on these rumors, but it hasn’t added up to a great image for the mega-tentpole.

In general, image control appears to be one of the biggest challenges facing the DC-movie enterprise today. If they’re getting their house in order behind the scenes, the public rarely sees that. ...
*  *  *
Still, there’s little sign that DC’s first post-Justice League feature, next year’s James Wan-directed Aquaman, has been troubled in any significant way, so even if League doesn’t flow quite right, Warner hopes to come out well with the next installment. Plus, Nelson says, to just look at the movies is to miss the overall forward motion that DC Entertainment has been experiencing in its few short years. “Films are massively important, but they’re not everything,” she says. “We wanna make sure these stories and characters are working everywhere, and they have, I think, in a pretty unprecedented way,” she says.

Edited September 29, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

No capes! No capes!...

[tv echo]

Now casting: Comic book show seeking police officers
Mary Caldwell  Sept. 28, 2017 
http://www.ajc.com/news/world/now-casting-comic-book-show-seeking-police-officers/chDJHSThuaLISA9pVjJBFI/

Quote

‘Black Lightning’
This CW drama is a based on the DC comic character Black Lighting and is produced by Greg Berlanti, who has four other DC-inspired shows on the network, according to Variety

What are they looking for?
Male and female extras, age 25 to 45 and any ethnicity, are needed to portray police officers. You’ll need to be physically fit and able to run in the scene and also must be clean-shaven or willing to go clean-shaven. Real or on-set police experience is helpful, but not necessary.

When are they filming?
Filming will take place in Avondale Estates on Oct. 5. Expect to be on-set for a minimum of 12 hours, and it may be a morning or afternoon call.

How much does it pay?
Pay is $125 for eight hours with overtime after that.

Edited September 29, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

DC Unveils 'Justice League' Movie-Themed Comic Book Covers (Exclusive)
SEPTEMBER 28, 2017  Graeme McMillan
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/dc-unveils-justice-league-movie-themed-comic-book-covers-1043773

Quote

DC Entertainment is planning on marking the release of the big-screen debut of its premier superteam Justice League this November with a series of variant covers spotlighting the members of the group — and The Hollywood Reporter can exclusively unveil the portraits for Wonder Woman and the Flash.

The covers will be published as variant editions for Wonder Woman No. 35 (on sale Nov. 22) and The Flash No. 34 (on sale Nov. 8), and feature Terry Dodson and Mike McKone's portrayals of the cinematic versions of each title character, backed by the other members of the team. (Sadly, Aquaman is missing from the Dodson Wonder Woman cover, but he's probably somewhere in the background, fighting an errant fish.)

Justice League movie variant covers will also be available for November issues of Justice League, Aquaman, Batman, Cyborg, Detective Comics, Superman and Trinity.

Edited September 29, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

That is $125 per hour, for 8 hours and extra after right?

[Morrigan2575]

17 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

That is $125 per hour, for 8 hours and extra after right?

No, that $125 for 8 hours of work ($15.62/hour) with overtime (I'm assuming time and a half) once they go over 8 hours

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

No, that $125 for 8 hours of work ($15.62/hour) with overtime (I'm assuming time and a half) once they go over 8 hours

Do they get a lot of free time to roam? Because that is peanuts! 

[LeighAn]

I remember reading something about professional extras that made it sound like extra work was easy money and some of them made more dough from extra work then they did proper acting jobs. But I guess that's not an always rule haha

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Do they get a lot of free time to roam? Because that is peanuts! 

That's well over minimum wage to basically stand around in the background.

What's the complaint?  You must make a shit ton of money at your job to expect Extras to get paid $1000 for one day of work ?

Edited September 29, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

Thursday ratings for the new season. Kinda surprised at Gotham.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That's well over minimum wage to basically stand around in the background.

What's the complaint?  You must make a shit ton of money at your job to expect Extras to get paid $1000 for one day of work ?

I thought the movie business was big bucks!

That's how much our check out grocery people get paid! Although I guess if they roam around all day it can be counted as free time.

[tv echo]

Danny Elfman on Scoring 'Justice League,' Working With Joss Whedon & Gus Van Sant
9/28/17   Melinda Newman
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7981630/danny-elfman-justice-league-joss-whedon-gus-van-sant-interview

Quote

You’ve just been in London recording the score for Justice League. It’s been 28 years since you scored Batman. What was it like going back into the DC universe? 
It was great. It was like I never left because I’m using the same thematic material that I used back then. It never actually went away [Laughs.] It just was great fun.

There are a few little fan moments. I instated a moment of the Wonder Woman theme that Hans Zimmer did for Batman Vs. Superman, but I also had two minutes where I had the pleasure of saying, “Let’s do John Williams’ Superman.” and that for me was heaven, because now I have a melody to twist, and I’m using it in an actually very dark way, in a dark moment. It’s the kind of thing that some fans will notice. Some won’t. It’s a moment where we’re really not sure whose side he’s on. 

The people at DC are starting to understand we’ve got these iconic bits from our past and that’s part of us, that’s part of our heritage -- we shouldn’t run away from that. Contemporary thinking is, every time they reboot something, you have to start completely from scratch -- which, of course, audiences will tell us again and again, is bullshit. Because the single-most surviving and loved theme in the world is Star Wars, which they had the good sense to not dump for the reboots. And every time it comes back, the audience goes crazy. 
*  *  *
Did you write new themes for such characters as Flash and Aquaman? 
I created very simple motifs. There are so many themes, you can’t just do a big theme for everything. So i created a motif for Flash, for Aquaman and Cyborg -- but they’re very simple things, and [DC] understood. I said, "These things may never be used again, but I’m giving you all the components, should you wish to have things to build on." So they either will or they won’t, but that’s how I approach a project like this. You have to take the attitude that this is the beginning of a mythology and it all matters, it all comes to fruition, and with any luck they will.

I loved the people I worked with, they were wonderful. The DC guys were great. I kept talking about the DNA of John Williams in this other theme -- using the DNA of Batman in these other variations, which were not the Batman theme -- but it all derives from that... Musical themes are like genes, you carry the DNA along and it creates these subtle connections which are perceived on an unconscious level. It’s funny because I’m terrible at puzzles, but I love musical puzzles. It’s a different part of my brain. 
*  *  *
Why do you love working with him [director Joss Whedon]?
It was the same as when I worked with him on Ultron. He appreciates melodies and pieces. He’s like, “Oh, you’ve given it identity here!” There was a moment where the Batmobile shoots out of a thing and he goes, “Go batshit crazy here! Batman the shit out of it!” When I’m using the Batman theme, I’m using the melodic sense of it, I’m wasn’t doing full-on Batman, and there’s a moment when he says, “No, right here, Full on!”

Are his musical instincts right? 
I think they’re great and he loves doing little things like that that are pure fan excitement: “Do John Williams here, Batman the shit out of this moment.” He knows how fans think. Give them these little things and let them enjoy it.

Edited September 29, 2017 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I thought the movie business was big bucks!

That's how much our check out grocery people get paid! Although I guess if they roam around all day it can be counted as free time.

As with everything there are tiers and most actors/writers/producers are just average employees. 

A lot of times extras are as LeighAn said actors out to pick up a paycheck in between working gigs, sometimes it's students or part time workers or wannabe actors that have free time. Hell, in some cases its people who just do it for fun. I had a friend who signed up to be an extra in a couple of movies that filmed in his town just for fun and to say he was in a movie.

I think The Walking Dead gets Walkers for cheap (64-88 for 8 hours)

Edited September 29, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Delphi]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I thought the movie business was big bucks!

That's how much our check out grocery people get paid! Although I guess if they roam around all day it can be counted as free time.

Well despite everything in Australia wanting to kill me, give me malaria and lgbt issues, if that's what cashiers are making that seriously tempts me to move there.   

[Morrigan2575]

10 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Thursday ratings for the new season. Kinda surprised at Gotham.

What's the site address again I wanted to check The Orville's ratings at 11 and couldn't remember this site. I had to wait for SpoilerTV to get the numbers loaded.

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

What's the site address again I wanted to check The Orville's ratings at 11 and couldn't remember this site. I had to wait for SpoilerTV to get the numbers loaded.

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-thursday-network-scorecard-9-28-2017.html

[quarks]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

I thought the movie business was big bucks!

(openly weeps)

Back to the extras question - as others are noting, a number of actors work as both professional extras and day players, largely to keep some money coming in between the day player gigs.  You'll also see crew and other creatives (including the occasional screenwriter) doing some extras work here and there for the same reason.  And then there are people who show up as extras because they are fans of the show/curious about the show/always wanted to be on TV/in a movie.

Unless things are extremely different on the Black Lightning set, I wouldn't say that the extras are just standing/roaming around - they'll be running around for lighting/camera tests, for instance, and presumably going through more than one take. That casting call sounds like it will involve a lot of running. And between times it can be pretty boring - no set allows extras to just roam around and look at things, alas. 

[LeighAn]

$15.90 an hour is what 16-17 year olds would roughly get paid at fast food places like KFC in Australia. Barmaids bar tenders and waiters can makes like $22-25 an hour in Australia. 

 

And yes @Delphi as someone from that country feel free to have LGBT issues with our country. Right now most Australians are having issues. I just had a massive rant watching my PM act truly condescending and dumb around the ssm debate in a interview on a variety show.