Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Mellowyellow]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I really don't, to be honest.  I have no huge longing but there is a tiny petty part of me that wants to wipe out the fake Laurel/Oliver wedding party with an actual Felicity/Oliver wedding in the following year's crosssover.  But yeah, that's mostly just about oneupmanship.  An Olicity wedding is going to be lovely in the moments it happens no matter when, where or why, so I'm open I guess to just about anything. 

You and Olicity wedding = me and Olicitots

Gimme anything and I'll swoon!!!!!!!! Except maybe not twins or multiples. Been dealing with real twins way to much lately to wish them on Olicity. 

[tofutan]

I'm not sure WA giving their wedding up to Olicity would feel as impactful as the Grey's Anatomy example, because the characters just don't seem as closely connected. There's also the fact that the Arrow episode airs before the Flash episode. It just seems that people would want to see the Olicity wedding on actual Arrow and similarly if WestAllen came close but decided to give it up, the fans would want to see that on Flash. So a stunt like that would make more sense if it was Flash, then Arrow. 

 

Quote

Romance is an element in every show..and first kiss/first I love you/first time/weddings/kids are significant romantic moments shows use in their story..you said that the network cares about having a traditional, flashy wedding to promote and I showed you examples of shows on that same network where they didn't even have a traditional wedding for their main couple

Many examples you listed were in the finale of their shows. Which I see as a sign that on those shows the writers didn't really see their couples as wedding material but they still wanted the wedding in the books, so they rushed it in at the end. Shows like Gossip Girl and Vampire Diaries were essentially soap operas, where the romance WAS the plot. Not like the CW superhero shows where they have both romance and action. Because of this, I think for soap opera type shows it makes sense to keep the wedding till the end because it seems in many of those shows they feel like there is not much more story to tell if the main couple gets married, because that is the climax of the only plot they have, romance. Shows that also have action should in theory be more capable to have weddings as a sidedish and then the action plot just continues. 

I don't think for the network and the "flashy wedding to promote" it matters whether the couple actually gets married, like in the Clark and Lois example. So in theory I don't think that WestAllen actually going through with it would be required. I just think not only would it be disappointing for the fans, considering it was a sizable element of the last season that WestAllen were engaged and first under the threat of Savitar and then Barry has to go into the speedforce, it would feel like a reward for sitting through such an angsty plot, and it would feel pretty annoying when there is yet another wedding fakeout, considering that Olicity already had one and as you noted, so did Lois and Clark. 

And as people noted, they might use it as a springboard to bring on some of their descendants from the comics. I think a lot of writers don't really like married people on the show because they act under the prejudice that it's boring or less sexy, regardless of how many fans disagree. But if you want to do the descendants storyline anyway, they might see that as a way to answer to themselves the question: yeah, but what will they do once they get married? Maybe the writers of Flash feel like they have already told a lot of the core stories of Barry and they want to enter the more "sidekick-y" phase, like Arrow already did. And of course Arrow already found their own way to introduce fatherhood as a topic without going through the main couple for it. Again, pregnancies, especially between happy couples seems to be the kind of things many writers seem allergic to. So to them having half grown or already grown children showing up is way more attractive. 

I'm not excusing their smallmindedness in that regard, I'm just pointing out that that seems to be a thing on a lot of shows. 

Also, if you take up the shipper goggles for a second, Flash is still the highest rated CW show, so that alone makes any wedding of Barry's an attractive proposition from a "flashy thing to promote" POV. It's not about fairness it's about what seems likely to happen regardless of whether or not people like it. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by tofutan

[Miss Dee]

I gotta say, I really don't know if this is going to have the same feel as last year, with the first hour feeling like a Supergirl episode, second hour like an Arrow episode, etc. I think there's a good chance that this is going to be treated like a miniseries that just happens to occupy DCCW airspace. If that's the case, then the plotting throughout might be whatever best fits the story, rather than forcing the "big" moments for any character to fit into that character's show.

[Starfish35]

12 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I gotta say, I really don't know if this is going to have the same feel as last year, with the first hour feeling like a Supergirl episode, second hour like an Arrow episode, etc. I think there's a good chance that this is going to be treated like a miniseries that just happens to occupy DCCW airspace. If that's the case, then the plotting throughout might be whatever best fits the story, rather than forcing the "big" moments for any character to fit into that character's show.

I agree with this.

And I do think the Girl's Night Out is Iris's bachelorette party.  I think this was posted here before so I won't re-quote the whole thing, but this part:

Quote

And to the second part of your Q about the possibility of the outing being a bachelorette party for the potential future Mrs. West-Allen, Helbing responds with a laugh, “Possibly.”

If it wasn't, I think he would have said something like "sorry, no, perhaps sometime in the future".  "Possibly" just sounds like "yes but we're not going to officially confirm that since Barry isn't even out of the Speed Force yet."

Edited September 5, 2017 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

"Possibly" just sounds like "yes but we're not going to officially confirm that since Barry isn't even out of the Speed Force yet."

Can't he just say in there? Ugh. 

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yes, I remember you were not the first, lol.  It's been part of the spec options for months now.  

We started talking about it when we found out that LoT was moving to Tuesdays after The Flash and Arrow was the last DCTV show on the CW. At least, that's what gave me the idea. WA's wedding gets foiled, then the action heats up on LoT, and finally things calm down on Arrow, where Oliver and Felicity decide to seize the day.

That sequence of events makes no sense with moving Arrow after Supergirl and before The Flash. As much as a mini-series feel they might be going for this year, I don't believe they'll have crucial stuff for one show happen on other shows' episodes. Someone mentioned other versions of the characters. That would make sense to me. In general, I think stuff like that, without long reaching consequences, works best for these crossovers, so that the shows are free to pick up their own threads the following week. Which is also why I thought the Flashpoint would have been a great storyline for a crossover. It would have affected other shows, but only for that week. Any permanent consequences could have been contained to The Flash.

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 hours ago, tofutan said:

 

Many examples you listed were in the finale of their shows. Which I see as a sign that on those shows the writers didn't really see their couples as wedding material but they still wanted the wedding in the books, so they rushed it in at the end. Shows like Gossip Girl and Vampire Diaries were essentially soap operas, where the romance WAS the plot. Not like the CW superhero shows where they have both romance and action. Because of this, I think for soap opera type shows it makes sense to keep the wedding till the end because it seems in many of those shows they feel like there is not much more story to tell if the main couple gets married, because that is the climax of the only plot they have, romance. Shows that also have action should in theory be more capable to have weddings as a sidedish and then the action plot just continues. 

I don't think for the network and the "flashy wedding to promote" it matters whether the couple actually gets married, like in the Clark and Lois example. So in theory I don't think that WestAllen actually going through with it would be required. I just think not only would it be disappointing for the fans, considering it was a sizable element of the last season that WestAllen were engaged and first under the threat of Savitar and then Barry has to go into the speedforce, it would feel like a reward for sitting through such an angsty plot, and it would feel pretty annoying when there is yet another wedding fakeout, considering that Olicity already had one and as you noted, so did Lois and Clark. 

And as people noted, they might use it as a springboard to bring on some of their descendants from the comics. I think a lot of writers don't really like married people on the show because they act under the prejudice that it's boring or less sexy, regardless of how many fans disagree. But if you want to do the descendants storyline anyway, they might see that as a way to answer to themselves the question: yeah, but what will they do once they get married? Maybe the writers of Flash feel like they have already told a lot of the core stories of Barry and they want to enter the more "sidekick-y" phase, like Arrow already did. And of course Arrow already found their own way to introduce fatherhood as a topic without going through the main couple for it. Again, pregnancies, especially between happy couples seems to be the kind of things many writers seem allergic to. So to them having half grown or already grown children showing up is way more attractive. 

I'm not excusing their smallmindedness in that regard, I'm just pointing out that that seems to be a thing on a lot of shows. 

Also, if you take up the shipper goggles for a second, Flash is still the highest rated CW show, so that alone makes any wedding of Barry's an attractive proposition from a "flashy thing to promote" POV. It's not about fairness it's about what seems likely to happen regardless of whether or not people like it. 

I listed those shows as a specific argument..to say that I don't think it's true that the network has a preference for flashy weddings to promote, it has nothing to do with the timing of the wedding, it's a completely different argument..even more if a show was about romance they should have pushed for a big wedding to promote if that was what they wanted but since it didn't happen I don't think the network cares what kind of wedding the writers of a specific show go for.

I'm skeptical about the wedding (that doesn't get interrupted) happening during the first part of the 4th season because usually tv writers drag it longer than that, unless a show is ending in that season. And this goes not just for shows about romance, but for all shows. It's the way tv writers approach their main couple and the one example of a superhero show on the CW is Smallville where they did exactly that even if there was no need. I'm sure the fans of the couple would be disappointed but people have been saying how much they hate love triangles for example and writers still use them in every single show. You mentioned how many tv writers think married couples and pregnancies are boring (and I guess they think relationship drama/love triangles/break ups are interesting? Meh) so I think you get what I'm saying.

As I said already I don't see the correlation between having an already grown up kid show up from the future and Barry and Iris being having to be married in the present. I can see it if they want her to be pregnant and introduce those kids in their timeline but if they don't they could have introduced them when they weren't even together (that would have made for a funny SL imo) and it would have only played into the "Barry and Iris are destined to be together" story they were telling.

Flash is the most watched show they have but I didn't get the impression that Barry's love life is what makes it so popular.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[tv echo]

Video of FULL LoT panel at Dragon Con on Sunday, Sep. 3 (Matt Letscher, Neal McDonough, Maisie Richardson-Sellers, John Barrowman)...

-- MRS said that Captain Cold is coming back this season and that he won't be as bad.

-- (Starting at around the 51:33 mark) NM told an interesting anecdote about filming his first day on Arrow and being told by the assistant director to take off his wedding ring. He asked why, because he never removes his wedding ring, and was told it was because he was a bad guy, so he couldn't be married. So he called MG and asked why Damien Darhk couldn't have a wife as part of his storyline. MG replied that he loved the idea of the bad guy having a wife and family ("I love that, it's sick, it's twisted, it's perfect"). So later on we are introduced to Darhk's wife, who was named Ruve (like NM's wife). That's the one time when we see that Darhk really has a heart. NM then said that that stuck in the minds of MG and the writers, who went to NM this year and asked him how he felt about Darhk finding his heart at some point on Legends and becoming somewhat of a good guy. NM said that he thought about it and would love to explore that - a villain finding his heart and becoming a good guy. It's something that he "would pull from the seriousness of Arrow to the fun of Legends." 

Legends of Tomorrow Legion Of Doom Panel + Vixen Dragoncon 2017
Streamed live on Sep 3, 2017, by airricksreloaded

Edited September 6, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Video clip from Arrow/LoT joint panel at Dragon Con on Monday, Sep. 4 (Josh Segarra, Maisie Richardson-Sellers, John Barrowman, Kevin Alejandro, Neal McDonough)...

Pranks on the Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow set
Published on Sep 4, 2017, by Critical Blast

 

[LolaRuns]

Quote

As I said already I don't see the correlation between having an already grown up kid show up from the future and Barry and Iris being having to be married in the present. 

It's not required, but it might seem neat to the writers. Maybe they are bored of writing triagles and relationship storylines for them. In the end we will know by the time it airs. I think the crossover wedding will be Barry and Iris. I think it could be either a close call or actually go through. I would be surprised if Felicity and Oliver got married this season, especially if the Barry and Iris wedding goes through. 

[tv echo]

TVLine's Matt Mitovich gave Marvel's Inhumans (first 2 episodes "movie") a grade of C- (his review is "relatively nonspoilery")...

Marvel's Inhumans Review: Even on Big Screen, New ABC Drama Feels Small
By Matt Webb Mitovich / September 2 2017, 10:30 AM PDT
http://tvline.com/2017/09/02/marvels-inhumans-review-abc-premiere-imax/

Edited September 5, 2017 by tv echo

[Midnight Lullaby]

9 hours ago, LolaRuns said:

It's not required, but it might seem neat to the writers. Maybe they are bored of writing triagles and relationship storylines for them. In the end we will know by the time it airs. I think the crossover wedding will be Barry and Iris. I think it could be either a close call or actually go through. I would be surprised if Felicity and Oliver got married this season, especially if the Barry and Iris wedding goes through. 

I can't talk of what the writers are thinking of the subject, we will know that only if they come out and say it. It would be a positive change to not drag the love story like everyone does though for sure.

I'd bet the planned wedding is Barry and Iris but I don't think going through with it has anything to do with Arrow, just with the plans they have for their own show..if you follow the spoilers anyway 

Between Emily, Stephen and Davis they basically spoiled the wedding..

Edited September 5, 2017 by raven
removed spoiler tag

[tv echo]

[Mellowyellow]

It wouldn't surprise me if CW married everyone for kicks this season.

Lets review all the season finales shall we

WA: Separated because Barry went into the speedforce or where ever - teary good bye

Kara and Mon El: Mon El flew off to some black hole - another teary goodbye (a pretty good one actually! I don't ship em but I was sad!)

Olicity: Evil Villain's last words are "Felicity" as the island blows up separating my beloved Olicity - no teary good bye but a "Just in Case" kiss that killed me in the best of ways.

Legends: Didn't watch it, was sulking for reasons

The show runners were not particularly original this season. Either they copied each other or they will do whatever the hell they want on their shows which means EVERYONE could get married with tots if each show runner decided this is the story they want to tell.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[tv echo]

Rose City Comic Con, September 8-10, 2017 (Portland, OR)
Carlos Valdes, Danielle Panabaker and Katee Sackhoff
http://rosecitycomiccon.com/guests/
Programming Schedule (KS on Fri. 9/8 @5:30pm; CV on Sat. 9/9 @12:30pm; and DP is TBA)

[tv echo]

Flash S3 was released on blu-ray and dvd this week - here's a description of blu-ray contents (does not include all Invasion crossover eps)...

The Flash Season 3 Blu-Ray review: What to expect & why it’s worth buying!
by Cody Schultz   Sep. 4, 2017
https://hiddenremote.com/2017/09/04/flash-season-3-blu-ray-review-expect-buy/

Quote

Disc 1
Episode 1, “Flashpoint”
Episode 2, “Paradox”
Episode 3, “Magenta”
Episode 4, “The New Rogues”
   - Deleted Scene
Episode 5, “Monster”
Episode 6, “Shade”
Villain School: The Flash Rogues
   - In this bonus feature, fans can get a look at the various new villains introduced in Season 3 and how they were brought to life!

Disc 2
Episode 7, “Killer Frost”
Episode 8, “Invasion!”
    - Deleted Scene
Episode 9, “The Present”
    - Deleted Scene
Episode 10, “Borrowing Problems from the Future”
    - Deleted Scene
Episode 11, “Dead or Alive”
Episode 12, “Untouchable”
Allied: The Invasion! Complex Special Feature
    - Find out how this year’s crossover came to be with a look at the making of the 3-part crossover event.

Disc 3
Episode 13, “Attack on Gorilla City”
Episode 14, “Attack on Central City”
Episode 15, “The Wrath of Savitar ”
    - Deleted Scene
Episode 16, “Into the Speed Force”
Episode 17, “Duet”
    - Deleted Scene
Episode 18, “Abra Kadabra”
Rise of Gorilla City Special Feature
    - The 2-part Gorilla Grodd centric episodes were among the season’s most visually stunning which was a testament to the incredible work done by the show’s visual effects team. Through this bonus feature, you can get an in-depth look at the magic behind the episode and the creation of Gorilla City.
The Flash: Hitting the Fast Note Special Feature
    - Another high note of the season was the special musical crossover with Supergirl, in the first of the disc’s four musical episode features fans get to see how the concept for the episode was developed.
The Flash: I’m Your Super Friend Special Feature
    - Through this feature, fans are treated with a special tribute to the episode’s “Super Friend” duet.
Harmony in a Flash Special Feature
    - Find out how composer Blake Neely worked to arrange the score for the musical crossover to deliver a fun and memorable musical hour.
Synchronicity in a Flash Special Feature
    - Rounding out our quartet of “Duet” inspired bonus features we have a fun feature that follows Neely’s work with a live orchestra to lay down the music of the episode.

Disc 4
Episode 19, “The Once and Future Flash”
Episode 20, “I Know Who You Are”
    - Deleted Scene
Episode 21, “Cause and Effect”
Episode 22, “Intantino Street”
Episode 23, “Finish Line”
    - Deleted Scenes
The Flash: 2016 Comic-Con Panel
     - Relive the fun of the show’s 2016 San Diego Comic-Con panel through this special feature.
A Flash in Time: Time Travel In The Flash Universe Special Feature
    - Flashpoint played a major role in the season, so what better time to take a look at how the writers used the iconic comic book       storyline for inspiration.
A Conversation with Andrew Kriesberg and Kevin Smith Special Feature
    - Join Kriesberg and guest director Smith for a look at how Smith approaches directing The Flash and Supergirl. 
Gag Reel

Edited September 5, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Video clip from Arrow/LoT joint panel at Dragon Con on Monday, Sep. 4 (Josh Segarra, Maisie Richardson-Sellers, John Barrowman, Kevin Alejandro, Neal McDonough)...

Pranks on the Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow set
Published on Sep 4, 2017, by Critical Blast

 

 

I knew there was a reason I loved JB.  :D    Also, how much more fun would it have been for Iris to have had her bachelorette party at Woodstock?  Now that would have been a fun crossover. 

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

It wouldn't surprise me if CW married everyone for kicks this season.

Lets review all the season finales shall we

WA: Separated because Barry went into the speedforce or where ever - teary good bye

Kara and Mon El: Mon El flew off to some black hole - another teary goodbye (a pretty good one actually! I don't ship em but I was sad!)

Olicity: Evil Villain's last words are "Felicity" as the island blows up separating my beloved Olicity - no teary good bye but a "Just in Case" kiss that killed me in the best of ways.

Legends: Didn't watch it, was sulking for reasons

The show runners were not particularly original this season. Either they copied each other or they will do whatever the hell they want on their shows which means EVERYONE could get married with tots if each show runner decided this is the story they want to tell.

In case you get over your sulks for reasons, Legends also had a couple that could potentially be stuck on the wedding bonanza.  Maybe a four way wedding?   Heck, toss in J'onn and M'gann, let Alex and Maggie renew their vows, and bring in Roy.  Let's go all out!  

Quote

 NM then said that that stuck in the minds of MG and the writers, who went to NM this year and asked him how he felt about Darhk finding his heart at some point on Legends and becoming somewhat of a good guy. NM said that he thought about it and would love to explore that - a villain finding his heart and becoming a good guy. It's something that he "would pull from the seriousness of Arrow to the fun of Legends." 

So wait, now that Laurel is dead dead and BS is sashaying around on Arrow, they are making the guy that killed her...good?  

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

So wait, now that Laurel is dead dead and BS is sashaying around on Arrow, they are making the guy that killed her...good?  

Hahahahahahahahahaaaa! The ONLY time Neal McDonough has played a good guy was in the early 90's as the voice of Bruce Banner in the updated Incredible Hulk, where Betty was first voiced by Genie Francis, before they replaced her with that horrid Phelice Sampler (the horrid horrid recast for Donna on Another World), Luke Perry as Rick, and the late great John Vernon as General Ross. And Cree Summer as She-Hulk.

[bijoux]

What about Dum Dum Dugan?

[BkWurm1]

Quote

. And Cree Summer as She-Hulk

I remember her as a side character waaaaaay back on "A Different World."  (A show that got stolen from the intended lead by a much more interesting character on the sit com who in the second season was made the lead -and the other character shipped back to The Cosby Show- and by the end of the show even got the original lead's potential love interest as hers instead, no wonder I liked Arrow so much!)   I'll never forget when Cree was being interviewed by some late-night talk show host and she busted out Penny from Inspector Gadget.  I am now envisioning Penny as She-Hulk and it is a beautiful thing, lol.  

 

7 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What about Dum Dum Dugan?

I always forget he played that part myself for some reason.  And I've seen Captain America a few times, lol.  

Edited September 5, 2017 by BkWurm1

[GHScorpiosRule]

Cree also played the EVUHL sister to what'shisface who were members of "The Pack" on Gargoyles.

11 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What about Dum Dum Dugan?

 

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I always forget he played that part myself for some reason.  And I've seen Captain America a few times, lol.  

D'OH!

[Starfish35]

He was a good guy in that Syfy miniseries Tin Man.  And he was the lead in a short-lived medical drama on NBC called Medical Investigation (that's the first place I saw him actually).  

Edited September 5, 2017 by Starfish35

[Cleanqueen]

I think I would be more mad about a crossover wedding if I was a WA fan rather than an Olicity fan. I think Olicity itself gets a lot of focus (excluding 5A) and a lot of their first time moments were a big focus on the show compared to WA. WA fans would know that Barry and Iris getting married in a crossover just perpetuates the claim that the writers just don't think of WA as that iconic. It was already bad enough that Barry re-proposed to Iris in a crossover episode where another couple had focus on their relationship as well. 

Olicity already had a fake wedding that was almost perfect, them getting married in the crossover wouldn't be a big deal IMO...it would be nice to see them happy and be surrounded by everyone they've essentially had part in inspiring. Writers choosing to not marry them in the crossover probably means they do want it to be intimate for them like Stephen suggested and have it focused on their own show without the fate of saving the world on their shoulders.

[BkWurm1]

9 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Olicity already had a fake wedding that was almost perfect, them getting married in the crossover wouldn't be a big deal IMO...it would be nice to see them happy and be surrounded by everyone they've essentially had part in inspiring. Writers choosing to not marry them in the crossover probably means they do want it to be intimate for them like Stephen suggested and have it focused on their own show without the fate of saving the world on their shoulders.

1

Downside, we could very well get William.  ???

[Cleanqueen]

17 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Downside, we could very well get William.  ???

you mean at the wedding? well, I am sure he'll be there. I've accepted that he'll probably be Oliver's best man at the wedding lol

[Miss Dee]

See, the way y'all feel about 'ships and misplaced weddings is how I feel about that Dhark spoiler. Legends already has a "villain finding his heart and becoming a good guy," thank you very much.

ETA: Seriously, what are they going to do with Dhark that they can't do with Mick much better, as he's the one we're invested in? Even if it's so Dhark can sacrifice himself, they already did that with Leonard!

Argh, now I'm pissed.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Miss Dee

[statsgirl]

Diggle has to be Oliver's best man, I inisist on it.   Myson can be a groomsman.  If only JJ were still Sara, Myson could have been paired with her.

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

He was a good guy in that Syfy miniseries Tin Man.  And he was the lead in a short-lived medical drama on NBC called Medical Investigation (that's the first place I saw him actually).  

Medical Investigations was so bad, one of the critics (I think it was Sepinwall) said that the only person who could have liked it was N McD's mother.

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

So wait, now that Laurel is dead dead and BS is sashaying around on Arrow, they are making the guy that killed her...good?  

Purpose accomplished.

Seriously though, I wish they would stop redeeming bad guys just because they like keeping the actor around.  As much as I loved Segarra's Adrian Chase, I'm glad he's dead or they'd be redeeming him too.

[Velocity23]

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

I've accepted that he'll probably be Oliver's best man at the wedding lol

You know, I'm at the point where I'd accept Myson being part of the wedding. 

What I won't accept is if they have Sara or Ray have any roles in the wedding. I'd rather not have exes there at all - it's just awkward - but if it's a crossover wedding, I just hope they refrain from going, "hmm, maybe Ray should officiate it, wouldn't that be funny, haha" or anything like that. 

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

He was a good guy in that Syfy miniseries Tin Man.  And he was the lead in a short-lived medical drama on NBC called Medical Investigation (that's the first place I saw him actually).  

I liked the Tin Man mini-series *runs*

I like NealM and thought Darhk was a great/fun character, I wouldn't mind him going Grey, don't know if I'd like seeing him "good".  However, Neal would rock that role no matter how it's written, IMO.

[Primal Slayer]

 they need to start a support group for all these villains going grey. 

[Starfish35]

18 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I liked the Tin Man mini-series *runs*

I didn't think it was horrible, but it did make me think Zooey Deschanel was a terrible actress.

[statsgirl]

It was better than the second one they did about Alice in Wonderland.

[Starfish35]

I don't think I saw that one.

[statsgirl]

Alice. Impressive cast with Kathy Bates and Colm Meaney as the Queen and King of Hearts, Harry Dean Stanton as the Caterpillar, Tim Curry as the Dodo and Philip Winchester as a dreamy Jack but it never quite clicked for me.

[Xander]

I'm no WestAllen shipper but I don't think having them marry in a crossover means that writers don't think they are iconic. It could be the exact opposite as I think they view them as the couple of CW DCTV as they are canon both in the comics and on the show (and the movie, presumably), are together in every timeline, she's his lightning rod etc so I think they view them as epic. Having them get married in a crossover with characters from other shows present might be a way of celebrating that.

[Velocity23]

And if they not together Barry changes the timeline until they are. 

[Velocity23]

CW DCTV upcoming season description provided by ITunes

[Angel12d]

BS is an enemy from his past? He literally met the woman a couple of months back. Haha. They kill me.

Other than that, seems pretty much the same as previous season descriptions tbh. (I wish they'd give us something to get excited about soon.)

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

BS is an enemy from his past? He literally met the woman a couple of months back. Haha. They kill me.

I'll gladly take "enemy from his past" over "old friend." 

[Angel12d]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I'll gladly take "enemy from his past" over "old friend." 

Haha, good point. 

[wonderwall]

24 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

BS is an enemy from his past? He literally met the woman a couple of months back. Haha. They kill me.

Other than that, seems pretty much the same as previous season descriptions tbh. (I wish they'd give us something to get excited about soon.)

To be fair a couple of months back is still the past lol

[Angel12d]

10 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

To be fair a couple of months back is still the past lol

LMAO I guess. But usually a past enemy is from years back, someone he has history with. There's no history with BS, even if she is E2 Laurel. If anything I'd say she's a "new" enemy. But now I'm being pedantic. ? ?

[bethy]

The first thing I remember seeing Neal McD in was Band of Brothers as Buck Compton. I think I imprinted on him as a good guy from that role. Though he is AWESOME as a bad guy. He was pretty chilling as Robert Quarles in Justified.

[Primal Slayer]

His Thea Queen, did they forget some words in between there?

[Mellowyellow]

I just realised Ray can't marry anyone! Isn't he technically dead? So it won't be valid!

NM was goodish in Suits wasn't he? I wasn't there for the later seasons but I don't think he was a supervillain. They were all a bit sketchy on Suits.

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

His Thea Queen, did they forget some words in between there?

Queencest LIVES.

[bijoux]

Victor Garber joins the production of Hello, Dolly on Breadway on January 20. I don't know nearly enough about LoT's filming schedule to guess whether and how this will affect it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/theater/bernadette-peters-hello-dolly.html

[Proteus]

6 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Victor Garber joins the production of Hello, Dolly on Breadway on January 20. I don't know nearly enough about LoT's filming schedule to guess whether and how this will affect it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/theater/bernadette-peters-hello-dolly.html

That's worrisome.

[statsgirl]

Horace Van Der Gelder is the male lead opposite Dolly.  I don't see how Victor Garber can do both roles.