Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[tv echo]

Sound familiar, Arrow fans?

paintingitreal asked:
With continued success of The Flash in the ratings I fear that you; Kreisberg and Berlanti will continue to use the show as platform for future spin off; without a thought to developing the main cast of The Flash. Will this be case moving forward? Because since The Flash returned from winter break; there seems to be more of a focus on the guest stars for future spin offs then the main cast. I know more about Martin Stein's home life; then I know about Eddie, Iris and Joe. Thanks

I gotta be honest:  I don’t work on Flash.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

Edited March 18, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

I kinda love it that it doesn't matter how many times Guggenheim says he's got nothing to do with Flash. Fandom is never ever EVER gonna stop asking/complaining to him about it.

[BkWurm1]

I enjoyed the ep, but the thought of time travel in the hands of these people makes me nervous. I'm glad for the clues, and hopefully in the future if they're going to "erase" events we get those again. It just seems like a potential cheap trick for big OMG moments that don't mean as much as they could. I hope they use it judiciously.

Once time travel is introduced or in the case of Arrow a reset like the Lazarus Pit, the next step is to explain why it's a bad idea to use the get out of jail card.  On Smallville, it was going back in time has unintended consequences (but it mostly just seemed an excuse for Clark to be a dick since his future time line self was fine with going back in time and resetting things to suit himself).  I wonder what reasons they will come up with for Arrow and Flash. 

[MarkHB]

Well, for starters, on Arrow the reset hot tub is owned by assassins who probably want to kill you. On Flash, Barry doesn't know how he did it, or how to control it*, or if it's possible to get back to his time. I would love to see an episode where he gets on the treadmill in a time travel attempt and finds himself instead being greeted by a man in a metal hat who introduces himself as Jay Garrick.

*- Those first two kind of remind me of myself playing foosball.

[manbearpig]

The way The Flash has been handling confrontations with the villains has been annoying me a little. I feel like every other episode the solution to winning is for Barry to run faster, and there's been a whole bunch of scenes that basically amount to one of the Star Labs people telling him to run faster, followed by a 'I've never ran that fast', before, he, y'know, runs that fast.

 

I mean...obviously I'm expecting a lot of running on The Flash but maybe they can stop repeating that same scene...(and to be fair at least this week it occurred during a pretty crazy stretch of scenes and resulted in a fun close to the episode). I'm genuinely excited for the next episode, though, and I'm glad the show is picking up steam since it got a little forgettable after it came back from hiatus IMO, give or take Harrison Wells and killer gorillas.

[KirkB]

I love the Flash. He's always been one of my favorite DC characters. That said, the problem with most TV versions of him is if he was doing even half as well as the comic character does most episodes would be like 30 seconds long. It's one of the downsides of super speed. I don't care if the villain has a cold gun or angry eyes or can manipulate the weather, Barry should be able to dart in and punch them unconscious before they're even aware he's there. This, of course, would not make for very interesting television. Smallville got around this by having a shitload of kryptonite land with Clark and be responsible for most of the bad things happening, so when Clark DID zoom in his very superiority was almost immediately counteracted. Flash doesn't have that option. In the comics you have guys who know him really well who are able to set up traps expressly for the purpose of stopping him when he runs in. The show has done this a little. Piper for example. Cold's best option is to put down a layer of ice so when Barry shows up he would skid into the wall. Barry has to be written as kind of a dunce where his powers are concerned because if he isn't there would be little or no crime in Central City but also very little show since he would be doing nothing but running and stopping crime and you'd never see much more than a blur.

[manbearpig]

On more than one occasion on the Justice League cartoon I can remember Wally tripping over a rock or something, which took him out of the battle for a while. It is a difficult thing to write though, because he's definitely overpowered. Barry's powers on The Flash seem to be advancing really quickly, too, so it could get difficult to find villains who pose a credible threat to him in the future.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't really like Speedsters, QuickSilver is funny (at least how Peter David wrote him) because he's an ass. However, it's hard to judge, i'm pretty sure Flash is written as faster, since I don't think Quick Silver has time travel abilities.

In X-Factor, Quick Silver was usually in support mode, so it doesn't seem like speedsters are that powerful, compared to Polaris, Gambit, Warlock (robot version) or Danger (also robot). So it makes me wonder about Flash, usually the hero has a villain or villains that are equal in nature so that their missions/quests aren't too easy.

Going back though, I agree, it seems like the answer to every villain fight is run faster Barry. Of course part of that is because Wells wants Barry to run faster for his own needs but, it's very repetetive.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Danny Franks]

The Flash is very much a one-note hero, in my book. That's a big reason why I've never been interested in him. Logically, he can defeat anyone easily, so usually the only way of combatting that is by having him be de-powered in some fashion. Or you create a character who is even faster than him, to be a threat. Same as with Superman.

 

I think this is a problem DC has with a lot of their characters, who have world-shaking levels of power. How do you make them consistently interesting, if they're that powerful? As far as I've ever been able to tell, they don't. The Bat-Family are the ones that have always spoken to me, because they're just a group of unpowered, but highly trained, people who want to fight crime for one pathological drive or another. A lot like the Oliver Queen of this show, funnily enough.

 

As for The Flash tv show? Boring and getting more so. I don't even bother watching any more, because it's always just half an hour of Barry navel-gazing about his love life, creeping on his pseudo-sister and then beating up a villain for the last few minutes, who gets locked away underground without the authorities ever knowing. And that stuff is interspersed with wheelchair doc being sinister, Caitlin being Bones level 'charming' and Cisco being the most annoying sidekick since Scrappy Doo.

[BkWurm1]

Agree to disagree

[AES13]

I am still really enjoying The Flash - is so much more comic-booky and fun than Arrow.  One issue though is that the solution to nearly every problem seems to be for Barry to run faster.  I'd like them to show him getting smarter and strategizing more, as Oliver suggested.

[Ang]

I think running faster was The Flash's "thing" this year; he's just discovered his abilities and they probably wanted to show a gradual development for them. But yes, unfortunately that translated into a very repetitive "run faster!" for every episode.

I still love the show, though. The actors are so charismatic and fun to watch, and several of the characters are interesting to me, Joe and Dr. Wells especially. Love Tom Cavenaugh (too tired to look up the correct spelling, sorry).

Edited March 21, 2015 by Ang

[wonderwall]

I like The Flash. It's entertaining. But I'm just not invested in the characters as much, in turn, I'm not invested in the show as much. Flash does plot well, but I just don't connect to the characters. Is that a problem other people are having with that show? 

[kismet]

I think running faster was The Flash's "thing" this year; he's just discovered his abilities and they probably wanted to show a gradual development for them. But yes, unfortunately that translated into a very repetitive "run faster!" for every episode.

I still love the show, though. The actors are so charismatic and fun to watch, and several of the characters are interesting to me, Joe and Dr. Wells especially. Love Tom Cavenaugh (too tired to look up the correct spelling, sorry).

Love the show for Barry, Joe & Dr. Wells! Seriously their triangular Bromance is just pure enjoyment. I also like the Dad when he gets to make a visit, of course he always makes me think of Dawson & the dangers of ice cream, but I still love him as a fatherly figure. Honestly could pass on the rest of the cast, they're not bad, they just don't interest me as much. They all seem to be very generic & 1 dimensional. Maybe it will change over time, but I don't get the same feeling about the cast as a whole as I did about Arrow when I first watched and was immediately invested in just about every major cast member they introduced to me. On the Flash I find most of their villains more compelling. Plus its kinda fun to watch the villains because it reminds me of the good seasons of Heroes when they had to keep coming up with realistic yet interesting superpowers.

 

But the run faster has become a little repetitive already. I sorta feel like Im watching Forest Gump sometimes and find myself yelling RUN BARRY RUN in my head with a little southern drawl.

[Carrie Ann]

I like The Flash. It's entertaining. But I'm just not invested in the characters as much, in turn, I'm not invested in the show as much. Flash does plot well, but I just don't connect to the characters. Is that a problem other people are having with that show? 

 

Yeah, I find myself only semi-engaged with the show. I find myself most emotionally engaged in scenes with Barry and his various father figures, and even though I like the other characters, I can't get myself to care about any of their relationships very much.

[Morrigan2575]

I like The Flash. It's entertaining. But I'm just not invested in the characters as much, in turn, I'm not invested in the show as much. Flash does plot well, but I just don't connect to the characters. Is that a problem other people are having with that show?

I'm not invested in Flash, I watch and enjoy it but (thankfully) have no desire to go deeper into the show or fandom. yes, I would agree there's no character or relationship (not in the shippy sense) that really hooked me. Up until this week's episode I would say Joe and Wells were the only attachment but now I'd add Cisco to the list.

I was the same with Arrow S1. I was very detached, I didn't have any interest in the characters not until I saw Felicity Smoak, Slade Wilson and Team Arrow together in action. I gave up after Helena killed Helo, I kept the show on the DVR so one day late in the series I watched an Arrow episode and found this really fun Team Arrow moment (Felicity joking about going to Gitmo and Oliver looking for roots after confessing she dyes her hair). After that I was hooked, went back watched all the episodes on my DVR, Felicity, Team Arrow, Snarky Slade Wilson and Olicity are what got me invested in the show and fandom, to my current dispair.

It's possible something may happen in the next few episodes of Flash that will have the same results but I hope not, better for my sanity to be a casual viewer.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[FurryFury]

I was the same with Arrow S1. I was very detached, I didn't have any interest in the characters not until I saw Felicity Smoak, Slade Wilson and Team Arrow together in action.

 

Same. Except Moira was also a big factor. As for Slade, I'll never stop morning the character he could have been were season 2B written any better. Such a waste of Manu. Why couldn't they cast him for the spin-off instead of Captain Cold? He's 10 times the actor and the character could probably still be redeemed, considering his heinous deeds were performed under the influence of a mind-affecting drug.

 

The latest episode of Flash was hyped as the best ever, and I was very disappointed. I'll probably finish the season, but by this point, I was starting to really invest into Arrow even despite Laurel and Lauriver, mostly because of the compelling season arc and Team Arrow. Flash doesn't have anything close to it, imho.

Edited March 21, 2015 by FurryFury

[Velocity23]

 

Cant the shows not keep sharing the same villians

[apinknightmare]

Cant the shows not keep sharing the same villians

 

Since it's a shared universe, I'm guessing no. And Arrow and Flash will be sharing villains with whoever shows up on the new show, too, in addition to Captain Cold and  Heatwave, who are already on there. 

[Velocity23]

I know but we already did the thingy with Clock King. I thought the Flash would build up to the Wells/Flash super finale.

[Velocity23]

I guess its too optimistic to hope that Ray follows after Deadbolt.

[Morrigan2575]

I guess its too optimistic to hope that Ray follows after Deadbolt.

What difference does it make? Ray is gone after 323 anyway, he's off to the spin-off.

[Velocity23]

Ray-free Arrow for that episode.

[kismet]

Im guessing Manu may be unavailable for Spin-off since hes booked another show I believe on MTV. But who knows there is always hope for future seasons. That is the good part about a team based group is easier to shuffle around cast members & plot lines.

[Danny Franks]

What difference does it make? Ray is gone after 323 anyway, he's off to the spin-off.

 

I thought the spinoff was a hiatus fill in, or mid-season replacement. That would mean Ray could stick around for the first ten episodes of season 4, at least. If not permanently, if his show is the failure I predict it will be (let's face it, Caity Lotz being asked to play second fiddle to that doofus is just going to annoy people).

[Morrigan2575]

I thought the spinoff was a hiatus fill in, or mid-season replacement. That would mean Ray could stick around for the first ten episodes of season 4, at least. If not permanently, if his show is the failure I predict it will be (let's face it, Caity Lotz being asked to play second fiddle to that doofus is just going to annoy people).

The spin-off is designed to be either a mid season replacement or possibly (unlikely) a summer show. They're already casting for the new show, so no he can't be in 10 episodes of Arrow S4, he'll be too busy filming the spin-off around the same time. Not to mention the difficulty in trying to keep all 3 shows lined up if Ray, Sara are a major part of Arrow S4, while Stein, Captain Cold and Heatwave are still dropping by Flash.

Most likely their runs end this season, maybe you'll get a cameo or short appearance in S4 just to set up the spin-off but it is highly unlikely that any of these characters will play a significant role in Arrow/Flash next season, there's no point. The whole point of Ray in S3 was the spin-off, now they have the Spin-off, no reason for Ray to be on Arrow.

[dtissagirl]

I thought the spinoff was a hiatus fill in, or mid-season replacement. That would mean Ray could stick around for the first ten episodes of season 4, at least. If not permanently, if his show is the failure I predict it will be (let's face it, Caity Lotz being asked to play second fiddle to that doofus is just going to annoy people).

Greg Berlanti mentioned on PaleyFest that should the spinoff go to series, it'll start shooting shortly after Arrow/Flash, even if it's planned for mid-season, so Routh would be unavailable for most of Arrow 4A.

[Morrigan2575]

Greg Berlanti mentioned on PaleyFest that should the spinoff go to series, it'll start shooting shortly after Arrow/Flash, even if it's planned for mid-season, so Routh would be unavailable for most of Arrow 4A.

taking response to spin-off thread

[tv echo]

This is an interesting article -- SA as Captain America! CL as Black Widow!...

 

What If DC Had Cast The Avengers?
by Adonis Gonzalez ⋅ Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 8:43am
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/03/22/what-if-dc-had-cast-the-avengers-2801973?lt_source=external,manual

 

(So I guess Oliver Queen confronting Ray Palmer will be like DC's version of Steve Rogers confronting Tony Stark?)

Edited March 22, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Russo Brothers to Direct Both ‘Avengers: Infinity War’ Movies
MARCH 23, 2015 | 02:11PM PT  Dave McNary
http://variety.com/2015/film/news/avengers-infinity-russo-brothers-directors-1201458324/

[FurryFury]

I think it's great. Avengers movies are good, but I'm a Whedon fan first and foremost, and I want him to gradually phase out of adapting comics. He's a really good writer and should create his own stuff. My dream would be a deal with a streaming service for a TV show or something.

[manbearpig]

I think it's great. Avengers movies are good, but I'm a Whedon fan first and foremost, and I want him to gradually phase out of adapting comics. He's a really good writer and should create his own stuff. My dream would be a deal with a streaming service for a TV show or something.

 

Basically this! However, I'll accept a comic adaptation if I get a Fray movie.

[Sakura12]

With the talk about an Arrow musical episode. I think the Flash needs one too. Especially when they sing the Firefly theme song. 

 

[BkWurm1]

With the talk about an Arrow musical episode. I think the Flash needs one too. Especially when they sing the Firefly theme song. 

 

I can't express how much I adored that!!

[Morrigan2575]

I love Jessie L. Martin's voice

[FurryFury]

Holy shit, my respect for The Flash cast has just skyrocketed. 

But why no Grant Gustin? He was on Glee, he can sing.

[SmallScreenDiva]

With the talk about an Arrow musical episode. I think the Flash needs one too. Especially when they sing the Firefly theme song. 

 

 

OK, I really need a video of these three, Grant Gustin, John Barrowman, Emily Bett Rickards and Colton Haynes (anybody else? Do Danielle or Candice sing? Tom Cavanaugh?) singing. Musical crossover, so to speak.

Edited March 25, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Sakura12]

Holy shit, my respect for The Flash cast has just skyrocketed.

But why no Grant Gustin? He was on Glee, he can sing.

Mine too. It's especially fun because Morena Baccarin is the voice of Gideon, Wells' computer.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

Hey, I didn't notice this! Maybe they should add some Firefly actors on the show. I'd love to see basically anyone. Of course, two are already dead in this universe because of Arrow (and both misused, imo), but there are others.

[apinknightmare]

Mine too. It especially fun because Morena Baccarin is the voice of Gideon, Wells' computer.

Wow, really? I didn't know that!

[Carrie Ann]

But why no Grant Gustin? He was on Glee, he can sing.

 

I think it's because these three are the ones doing the Kickstarter that this was made to promote.

 

And yeah, I've watched this like five times since yesterday morning and it just does not get old. And that's coming from someone who thinks that it's in contention for the worst TV theme song of the decade.

[SonofaBiscuit]

And that's coming from someone who thinks that it's in contention for the worst TV theme song of the decade.

 

Blasphemy!  I love the Firefly theme song.  No, no, no, how could you hate it??  :)

[Sakura12]

Moved to Small Talk.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Sakura12

[Carrie Ann]

Replying in Small Talk.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[wonderwall]

After the last two episodes, Barry has just become an unlikable male lead. I think I'm going to have to drop this show because the only thing that makes me happy about this show right now is Joe, Cisco, and Eddie. And that's not enough for me to keep up with the show. Also, the whole time travel thing? I'm not into it as much as I thought I'd be. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by wonderwall

[FurryFury]

I haven't even watched the latest ep yet. Still planning to, but it's hard to convince myself.

[Chaser]

After the last two episodes, Barry has just become an unlikable male lead. I think I'm going to have to drop this show because the only thing that makes me happy about this show right now is Joe, Cisco, and Eddie. And that's not enough for me to keep up with the show. Also, the whole time travel thing? I'm not into it as much as I thought I'd be. 

I'm just finding him really immature. I hated that he ambushed Iris, he didn't have any right to put that on her. I didn't like Joe getting involved either in the Iris-Eddie-Barry thing either. Let Iris figure things out on her own please.  I'm not a fan of others excusing his actions either. Caitlyn making up some lame reason so Iris and Eddis will feel sorry for him. Not a fan. 

[CabotCove]

I gotta be honest:  I don’t work on Flash.

 

Maybe he should put this on his Tumbrl Bio/Profile.

 

I think this is a problem DC has with a lot of their characters, who have world-shaking levels of power. How do you make them consistently interesting, if they're that powerful? As far as I've ever been able to tell, they don't. The Bat-Family are the ones that have always spoken to me, because they're just a group of unpowered, but highly trained, people who want to fight crime for one pathological drive or another. A lot like the Oliver Queen of this show, funnily enough.

 

Different strokes, Flash is way more popular than Green Arrow in the mainstream media, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman are top tier heroes too. Some fans prefer superhero shows to have superpowers/humans with shows based on characters like Arrow/Batman  being viewed as not much different from the regular cop, hospital, law procedurals.

 

 

I think running faster was The Flash's "thing" this year; he's just discovered his abilities and they probably wanted to show a gradual development for them. But yes, unfortunately that translated into a very repetitive "run faster!" for every episode.

 

I think he has done so and it has paid off, he has recently broken the time continuum activating time travel, thats a game changer.

 

 

What difference does it make? Ray is gone after 323 anyway, he's off to the spin-off.

 

 

Agree. And then he will likely be back again at some point or Arrow characters will guest star on his show, since this is a shared universe and all. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by Conell

[Ang]

I'm just finding him really immature. I hated that he ambushed Iris, he didn't have any right to put that on her. I didn't like Joe getting involved either in the Iris-Eddie-Barry thing either. Let Iris figure things out on her own please. I'm not a fan of others excusing his actions either. Caitlyn making up some lame reason so Iris and Eddis will feel sorry for him. Not a fan.

Ugh, that was bad. I skipped his scene with Iris, since the episode to that point didn't seem to indicate that they'd handle it well. They've crossed the line into mid-1900s gender treatment; Iris deserves to be informed and make her own choices. And Caitlin's excuse was awful; that's a death blow to WestAllen (or whatever the kids are calling it) because it retroactively colors every experience they've had since the coma. No way Iris is coming away from this with the same feelings for Barry, and if she does without any compensation, I call bad writing.

[CabotCove]

Felicity is #1 on this list...

Ranking 'The Flash' & 'Arrow' Original Characters Who Help Complete DC Comics' TV Universe

LEAH THOMAS @LEAHMARILLA  2 DAYS AGO

 

She is not an Arrow original,  neither is Harrison Wells a TV original, he has been revealed to be Eobard Thawne a comic original character.