Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[KirkB]

Understandable. I think most networks would balk at the idea of airing three superhero shows.

[Morrigan2575]

Understandable. I think most networks would balk at the idea of airing three superhero shows.

Especially, when they only air 10 hours a week.

[cambridgeguy]

 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that CW passed on it as well.

It's also pretty expensive to film a bunch of flight scenes since they'd have to harness the actress for any close-up takeoff or landing.  Maybe she'll always land offscreen and wander into the frame to save on cost.

 

Costumes can always change as needed - while it's probably too costly to do it frequently if the worst thing people can say about a superhero series is that the costume sucks then it's in pretty good shape.  At least they didn't make it ridiculously skimpy even though they have a hero who doesn't actually need body armor in most situations.

[manbearpig]

I can understand rejecting Supergirl because they don't want tons of superhero shows on their limited schedule. I still think it would have been a better choice than this third rate* superhero team up mess that the CW did pick up.

 

*Sara aside, off course. Love her.

[NumberCruncher]

Yeah, I would watch Supergirl way before I would watch the ATOM & Friends spin-off so it would be interesting to know what CW's thinking was in passing on it.

[Starfish35]

Eh. I might have watched Supergirl if the casting had been different. As it is, at least the spinoff has a more interesting cast (to me).

[Sakura12]

I have no interest in Supergirl. The Super Hero Team up show has Victor Garber and Caity Lotz and depending on who the three other heroes are I might check it out. 

[Lokiberry]

I have no interest in Supergirl. The Super Hero Team up show has Victor Garber and Caity Lotz and depending on who the three other heroes are I might check it out. 

I'll check them both out, but I'm more interested in Superfriends because of CL. If I had my druthers, Sarah would be leading the team and Ray would be her sidekick.

[manbearpig]

I'm not even interested in Supergirl either, but I think it would be a really nice fit for the CW, and would work well if paired with The Flash for a night of superhero television. Presumably they'll be similar in tone. I'll love Victor Garber forever for Alias, and I'm so happy that Caity Lotz has managed to find a job, even though I'm expecting Sara's resurrection to be about as well handled as her death. But I can't say I'm excited for another show from these writers, and adding another show to their schedule just concerns me, since Arrow is struggling as it is IMO.

[Starfish35]

I agree with that. Arrow started going downhill (IMO) when The Flash came on the scene, and even though I'm enjoying The Flash, I'm worried about what will happen to it (and Arrow) with not one but two more shows next season.

[Sakura12]

I'll check them both out, but I'm more interested in Superfriends because of CL. If I had my druthers, Sarah would be leading the team and Ray would be her sidekick.

 

I definitely think Sara should be the Team Leader. She is apparently hard to kill, might as well make that person your leader. But she's a woman and in the writers world women can't lead because they have too many emotions. Why isn't Tara Butters talking some sense into her husband? Their daughters like Sara's Canary, give them two female leaders in Sara and Peggy Carter to look up too. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by Sakura12

[Ariah]

They can make Sara's resurection a season-long mystery, with clues skillfully presented throughout the run, a red herring in the mid-season finale and a revelation an episode before the big finale...

 

Oh, wait, that would require some skill in storytelling.

Forget that.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, I would watch Supergirl way before I would watch the ATOM & Friends spin-off so it would be interesting to know what CW's thinking was in passing on it.

I can think of a few.

Smallville aired for 10 years on The CW and covered many of the same stories/themes that Supergirl will, including Kara. Smallville had Supergirl, Zor-El, Jimmy Olsen (yeah, I know). They might not want to go down that road again

There's also the aforementioned fact that as of the 2014-2015 season, The CW has 2 DC Superhero shows and 1 DC Comics show (iZombie). with only 10 programmable hours per week, CW might not have wanted another DC/WB product. They refused the ATOM spin-off as well, until DC/WB sweetened the pot.

Then there's the cost of the show, it's entirely possible that the special effects might have been outside the CWs budget.

Finally, there's the female factor. At best, CW spent the last few years getting away from Dawn O's business model of marketing to female teens. They might be hesitant to bring on another new show geared towards females. At worst they follow the thinking that female superhero shows/movies aren't profitable.

[tv echo]

Could The "Arrowverse" Be Connected To The DCCU After All?
by James Buxton ⋅ Posted on March 8th, 2015 at 6:48pm ⋅ Last edit on March 9th, 2015
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/03/08/could-the-arrowverse-be-connected-to-the-dccu-after-all-2763506?lt_source=external,manual

[MarkHB]

I think there's a stronger chance that Ezra will be playing Wally, assuming he doesn't play another version of Barry.  But it is DC, so we can make multiverse suggestions all day long :) .

[looptab]

So, I just came across a pro-Laurel/Katie tumblr, and this person thinks that since KC was in LA when they started filming the Supergirl pilot, she might make a cameo. Do you think that's possible?

[wonderwall]

So, I just came across a pro-Laurel/Katie tumblr, and this person thinks that since KC was in LA when they started filming the Supergirl pilot, she might make a cameo. Do you think that's possible?

I don't think so, because that would imply that Laurel is relevant, which she's really not. KC goes to LA all the time. She's probably just visiting her boyfriend. 

 

Apparently SA was there too:

 

“Onlookers at the set of Supergirl claimed that they saw Stephen Amell there. Now while they just saw Stephen there, some have claimed that he was actually in his Arrow costume which means that Oliver Queen would appear on Supergirl,” wrote Comic Central City.” Source

Edited March 9, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

So, I just came across a pro-Laurel/Katie tumblr, and this person thinks that since KC was in LA when they started filming the Supergirl pilot, she might make a cameo. Do you think that's possible?

 

Probably not. If they were trying to tie the worlds together, I don't think Laurel would be the character they'd choose to do it. 

[Chaser]

I would believe SA before KC, but any Arrow cameo seems odd. I'm taking that with a grain of salt.

[Morrigan2575]

So, I just came across a pro-Laurel/Katie tumblr, and this person thinks that since KC was in LA when they started filming the Supergirl pilot, she might make a cameo. Do you think that's possible?

Depends.  Was it Apple4's Blog?  If so, I'd say no.  She sees KC/Laurel everywhere...pretty sure she still believes that blonde cameo in 104 was Laurel...

[looptab]

Depends.  Was it Apple4's Blog?  If so, I'd say no.  She sees KC/Laurel everywhere...pretty sure she still believes that blonde cameo in 104 was Laurel...

Yes that's it! LOL But she didn't say she saw her, just that she thought there was this possibility since KC was in LA. 

 

Thanks to you sane people for bringing reason :) Why would they want to taint a new show, right?

[Chaser]

Pretty sure Apple4 is also the one that says she has personal knowledge given to her by the Eps. They talk alot ..... apparently. lol

Edited March 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[wonderwall]

Pretty sure Apple4 is also the one that says she has personal knowledge given to her by the Eps. They talk alot ..... apparently. lol

 

I think you got your info mixed up. That's not the person who talks to the EPs a lot. There's another tumblr user who claims that they talk to the EPs a lot :p I forgot the url, can't be bothered to look for it.

[looptab]

LOL yeah I remember about this person claiming to talk to the EPs but now I can't remember about what. What was it? Sara? The costume? :)

[DrSpaceman10]

LOL yeah I remember about this person claiming to talk to the EPs but now I can't remember about what. What was it? Sara? The costume? :)

 

It was about a supposedly deleted goodbye scene between Oliver/Laurel in 3x09. Although MG later said on tumblr there was no such scene.

[Chaser]

I wonder how practical crossovers with Arrow and The Flash would be. I'm under the impression that Sugergirl will film in LA. That has to add a few problems, plus the show being on two different networks (connected the networks may be).

[tv echo]

According to JustJared, KC returned to Vancouver on Friday afternoon (March 6), back to work on Arrow after spending time in L.A. after the 2015 Oscars.  (Source)

[looptab]

It was about a supposedly deleted goodbye scene between Oliver/Laurel in 3x09. Although MG later said on tumblr there was no such scene.

Right! Thank you :)

[Morrigan2575]

I think you got your info mixed up. That's not the person who talks to the EPs a lot. There's another tumblr user who claims that they talk to the EPs a lot :p I forgot the url, can't be bothered to look for it.

dewstarling?

[wonderwall]

dewstarling?

ahhhh yes :p nice one! Honestly most of the things that he talks about with the EPs are wrong which in itself should show people just how reliable that person is. 

[tv echo]

Regarding the new Supergirl... doesn't Kara's look remind you a little of Felicity? (Source) 

 

 

Kinda like how the Kara audition dialogue sounded a little like Felicity:

KARA: Derek, from editorial. Sorry, haven't done your research yet... Wow, no. Not Derek. His bones are way less dense... Not that I know that, because that would be like... Having a dual energy X-Ray observatory meter inside your eyes, which would be crazy...

(Source)

Edited March 9, 2015 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery? I guess? It's so very un-CBS though

[kismet]

I wonder how practical crossovers with Arrow and The Flash would be. I'm under the impression that Sugergirl will film in LA. That has to add a few problems, plus the show being on two different networks (connected the networks may be).

I cant imagine they would try to crossover so soon with it being different networks. They will probably wait until its a known entity before they let the cw on their network or the cw lets their stars on cbs. Plus as u mentioned not too practical with the different locations.

[MarkHB]

Nina Tassler, Chairman of CBS Entertainment, said this at TCA regarding crossovers with the CW shows:

“That’s a different network so I think we’re going to keep Supergirl to ourself right now.”

[Morrigan2575]

I remember Berlanti saying it was written into hsi contact that it gets to crossover. I've no doubt CW would love a crossover but I could never see what was in it for CBS.

[BkWurm1]

I remember Berlanti saying it was written into hsi contact that it gets to crossover. I've no doubt CW would love a crossover but I could never see what was in it for CBS.

Eyeballs are eyeballs.  The CW and CBS have a different demographic.  A crossover event very likely would introduce new viewers in either case and CBS also would get the press coverage even if another couple million views don't impress them much. 

[MarkHB]

I remember Berlanti saying it was written into hsi contact that it gets to crossover. I've no doubt CW would love a crossover but I could never see what was in it for CBS.

 

I saw one story, way back, where he hinted at the possibility.  There was also a panel THR did a few months ago where the reporter said something about the crossover being in Berlanti's contract, but Berlanti wasn't there (MG, however, was).

 

What I would love to see is Barry calling Felicity to go out in the street in front of Verdant and hold her arms out at her sides.... and then he and Kara race from Central to Starling, just for fun.

[tv echo]

GOTG director James Gunn hosted an impromptu Q&A on his Facebook page recently, in which he dropped that Marvel isn't going to the San Diego Comic Con (SDCC) this year:
https://www.facebook.com/jgunn/posts/10152539339056157?comment_id=10152539406786157&offset=0&total_comments=2212

 

That led to media speculation as to whether Marvel is actually skipping SDCC this year and, if so, why:
http://www.mtv.com/news/2100016/marvel-comic-con-skipping-rumor/

Edited March 10, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

And so it begins (Arrow, Flash and Supergirl are briefly mentioned at the end of first article)...

 

DC Superhero Movies and The Dangers of Gritty Realism
Mike Cecchini 3/9/2015 at 6:51AM
http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/dc-entertainment/244413/dc-superhero-movies-and-the-dangers-of-gritty-realism

 

Warner Bros. Boss: DC films are "edgier" than Marvel's
Simon Brew 3/5/2015 at 8:24AM
http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/244333/warner-bros-boss-dc-films-are-edgier-than-marvels

[Sakura12]

Edgier doesn't translate into better. DC tends to go too dark, taking all the fun (and color) away. They need to learn how to balance the two. Hopefully they put some humor into Justice League Beginnings otherwise known has Batman Vs. Superman. I don't know how much they can do with all those character introductions they have to do since they didn't plan ahead like Marvel. 

 

It is interesting that the article said that Marvel tends to go to the fans first while DC goes to the investors. Whatever Marvel is doing is working, they own my wallet, I will go see any new Marvel movie while for DC I wait until it's at Redbox. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by Sakura12

[Danny Franks]

Warner Bros. Boss: DC films are "edgier" than Marvel's

Simon Brew 3/5/2015 at 8:24AM

http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/244333/warner-bros-boss-dc-films-are-edgier-than-marvels

 

Yeah, I saw how "edgy" Man of Steel was. I'll pass, thanks. Come back when you have some good directors and actors (not including Ben Affleck, who is both. But I'm sure even he can't save a Snyder emo-SFX-fest).

[Starfish35]

Lauren German cast in Lucifer

http://tvline.com/2015/03/10/lucifer-lauren-german-cast-chloe-dancer/

I was not a fan of her character when she was on Hawaii Five-0, but I know there was a lot of mourning when her character was killed off on Chicago Fire.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Starfish35

[quarks]

Yeah, I saw how "edgy" Man of Steel was. I'll pass, thanks. 

 

And Superman's not even supposed to be edgy! He's supposed to be inspirational! HE'S SUPERMAN!

 

Sorry. My inner six year old and I will just go to a corner and cry now. 

[tennisgurl]

When will DC learn that edgy" does not have to equal "dour" and "realistic" does not have to equal "boring"? 

 

Just for fun, try to count how many times people smile in Man of Steel. The answer? Basically never. In the fight between Marvel making fun, exciting, well done popcorn movies, and DC making dour, serious, "important" movies, I know which one I am going to be more excited to see on opening weekend. 

[dtissagirl]

I actually find Marvel's movies to be edgier. This idea that grim dark violent is "edgy" is too ridiculous, to be honest. That's been the Hollywood norm for the targeted male audience since the '70s, and it never ever went way.

 

But Marvel is trying different things. They seem to have a scripted-TV approach to the MCU, even, as if each movie were an episode in a superhero anthology. And they're consistently trying to subvert the common tropes [iron Man 3's villain fake out, for example], and trying out different genres within superhero movies [Cap 2 is a spy movie]. They don't always succeed, but they're sure as hell trying. DC isn't.

[NumberCruncher]

I actually find Marvel's movies to be edgier. This idea that grim dark violent is "edgy" is too ridiculous, to be honest. That's been the Hollywood norm for the targeted male audience since the '70s, and it never ever went way.

I agree with this. I think Marvel still manages to provide enough edge to not insult its audience with too much cheese and heaven knows they're willing to take risks (see: Guardians of the Galaxy). I certainly know that I walked out of Captain America: TWS feeling like it was surprisingly dark for Marvel yet that movie has ended up being one of my top 3 favorite Marvel movies. I'm not a fan of large amounts of darkness and grit, but I do enjoy it when it's appropriate. WB/DC takes it to extremes in its movies though (and apparently now in TV shows too), which is why I also don't opt to see DC movies in theaters and instead just wait for them to hit HBO.

[Lord Kira]

I can't wait to see how DC/WB make The Flash film dark, gritty, and edgy. It will be hilarious.

 

DC aren't they only ones doing this though. For some reason FOX thinks Fantastic Four should be dark, gritty, and edgy. Ugh.

 

Characters that can be dark, gritty, and edgy: Batman, Daredevil, The Punisher

Characters that should not be dark, gritty, and edgy: Superman, The Flash, Fantastic Four

[dtissagirl]

I don't understand DC/Warner's stance that edgy and dark have to be sad and depressing. I mean, I get that for Batman. His parents are dead and he's the epitome of #foreveralone. But making the entire line behave like Bats is dumb. You know what I find dark and egdy on DC? The entire thing with Dr. Wells on The Flash. He's tricking the heroes into trusting him, and he's mind-fucking the audience into sometimes finding him sympathetic, even though they're showing us that he's been doing monstrous things. That's dark.

 

My biggest problem with the movies, though, is the writing. I get why people like Christopher Nolan's movies, but personally, while I think he's a good director, I find him to be a terrible storyteller. And an even worse writer. All of his movies have that weird thing wherein a lot of scenes explain what just happened in the previous one. Batman leaves at the end of TDK, and then Comissioner Gordon explains to his son WHY Batman had to leave. Like, I'm sitting here watching the movie, I didn't go to the bathroom. I'm not dumb. I understood why Batman had to leave. You really don't have to explain, Nolan. There's no nuance in his writing, and there's no smarts coming from the text. I think he lucked out in getting really really good and talented actors for the Bats trilogy, and that disguised the mediocre scripts.

 

But the MCU is filled with actual smart writing moments. Natasha tricking Loki in Avengers by using his own mind games. The whole thing with the Mandarin in IM3 is clever. Not only the real terrorist is the hot white dude who hired an actor, and blackfaced the guy on purpose, but Tony goes into a department store and buys the terrorist's dream grocery list to infiltrate their compound. In Cap 2, when Steve and Natasha are in the bunker, the computer!Zola goes on and on and on about the entire history of Hydra, but he's actually distracting them so the STRIKE team can get there. Exposition used to not only advance the plot but actually move the plot along. That's smart writing.

Edited March 10, 2015 by dancingnancy

[KirkB]

DC seems to have taken to heart the idea that if it worked in one place it should work everywhere. Dark (literally and metaphorically) and depressing grittiness works for Batman because that's what he is all about. Gotham City is in perpetual darkness and the citizens go out on the street every day knowing the Joker might wander up and shoot them. It works for Arrow too, this version anyway, only because they are writing and plotting the whole show as Batman 2.0 and the citizens of Starling have pretty well gotten used to huge groups of terrible people trashing everything in sight. But Superman? No. Superman is supposed to be an inspirational icon. Even Batman says this. He is the guy other superheroes look up to and even most of the villains tend to respect. You can't tone down the suit and take the fun away and expect people to be happy with it. And having Jonathon Kent tell Clark he should have let his friends die and refuse to let him save him? Meanwhile Jor El goes on and on about how heroic he is? What the hell? 

Edited March 11, 2015 by KirkB

[Sakura12]

I think DC is still sulking about their supposed jump into fun with Green Lantern. They don't understand that the movie didn't fail because it was supposedly fun and light it failed because it was dumb and boring. But now they think it didn't work so they shouldn't continue going that way. Batman worked so they are going to keep doing the same thing.

 

Guardians of the Galaxy was about criminals and a villain that wanted to commit genocide and burned up an entire army. Marvel movies do tackle some dark things but also manage to feed some humor in to it to balance it out. That's why they are successful. It's not dark and bleak all the time where it just becomes depressing and hopeless. Even when Batman wins you feel glad that he did succeed, but you don't walk out the theater with a smile on your face like you would with Marvel movies. And I should be walking out of a Superman movie with a smile on my face, he's Superman! 

Edited March 11, 2015 by Sakura12