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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
in Arrow

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

1 hour ago, nksarmi said:

Well I'm not overly happy because my son loves Captain America but I will just buy older comics for that. On the upside, he also loves Falcon so I just won't let him know about the Hail Hydra Steve Rogers and all should be fine lol. I'm sure they'll say it's a fake out at some point - but yuck. Of course, it's also yucky that people rejected Sam as Captain America but whatever. Another reminder that racism isn't dead - just hidden.

Why not?

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Lokiberry

Lokiberry

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

This is an interesting read...

The New Nazi Captain America Is the Hero That Bigoted Comic Book Fans Deserve
By MaNishtana  June 15, 2016 • 12:00 AM
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/204647/nazi-captain-america

This is an interesting article, and I look forward to seeing if Hydra Steve actually will contain some social commentary about the racial and/or fascist strains in this country, but it also seems to conflate the racist jackholes who hate Sam Wilson, with those who genuinely love Steve Rogers. I mean, suppose some freak hopped up on Venom broke Batman's back, and the (white) nutter Azrael took his place. I'm sure people would call for the return of Bruce Wayne.

The response to Cap Sam and Thor's Angela was absolutely disgusting, and did rip the mask off the racism and misogyny of a large part of the comic book fandom (just imagine what the response would be if the MCU actually listened to that petition and made Steve bisexual), but I don't think making the beloved Steve Rogers a nazi is the answer.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

6 hours ago, foreverevolving said:

Why not?

He's too young for a "hero" to be turned into a villain. But because of his age, it's safer to buy older comics anyway.

12 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

The 15 Most Powerful Heroes Of The Arrowverse

http://screenrant.com/best-arrowverse-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-arrow-supergirl-cw-heroes/

15. Captain Cold & Heatwave
14. Arsenal
13. Rip Hunter
12. Hawkgirl & Hawkman
11. The Atom
10. Speedy
9.  Firestorm
8.  Vibe
7.  White Canary
6.  Katana
5.  Constintine
4.  Green Arrow
3.  Supergirl
2.  Martian Manhunter
1. Of course is the Flash. 

How can they rate Flash ahead of Supergirl or Martian Manhunter if they are talking about "powerful"?

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Sakura12

Sakura12

6 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

How can they rate Flash ahead of Supergirl or Martian Manhunter if they are talking about "powerful"?

I'm still baffled as to why everyone thinks the Flash is so fucking great. I personally think he's a man child that needs to grow up and face the consequences he causes. As for the list they are calling the Flash the most powerful because he can travel through time and open breeches to other universes. 

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Trini

Trini

(edited)
2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The 15 Most Powerful Heroes Of The Arrowverse

http://screenrant.com/best-arrowverse-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-arrow-supergirl-cw-heroes/

15. Captain Cold & Heatwave
14. Arsenal
13. Rip Hunter
12. Hawkgirl & Hawkman
11. The Atom
10. Speedy
9.  Firestorm
8.  Vibe
7.  White Canary
6.  Katana
5.  Constintine
4.  Green Arrow
3.  Supergirl
2.  Martian Manhunter
1. Of course is the Flash. 

The author didn't really give good reasons for the rankings either. I wouldn't put Flash at the top either (#3 after Supergirl and Martian Manhunter). Obviously, it's all that guy's opinion, but the list is silly for me because of some of the other rankings (some non-powered persons are too high) and omissions(What about Vixen?).

Edited by Trini
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Sakura12

Sakura12

Powerful doesn't necessarily mean they need powers. 

I'd consider Oliver, Sara and Katana pretty powerful with what they can do against powered people. As I've seen from these shows, the powered people don't feel they need to learn any skill. They depend solely on their powers. If Barry and Kara lost their powers, they wouldn't stand a chance against Oliver and Sara. When that is taken away they are helpless, while Oliver and Sara could keep fighting like they always do.The powered people need pick me ups to keep going.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I still think if we are talking about "powerful" - we have to give the edge to Supergirl / Martian Manhunter. And frankly, I'm not sure Flash is more "powerful" than Firestorm. And a bunch of mostly non-powered people are traveling through time and will Cisco can open breaches to other worlds. Flash is just the king of "can do really weird shit that makes no sense like kill an earlier version of myself and somehow not erase myself from the timeline" powers.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but again with the "heroes" being limited to comics-named superheroes?  Felicity's computer hacking ability is pretty powerful and stopped a nuke from destroying Star City.  Granted, she has no superpowers and no costume, but I'd certainly put her ahead of Arsenal and Speedy.

Edited by tv echo
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FurryFury

FurryFury

Well, it's an action franchise, so it does make sense that in ratings of this sort, only action characters are mentioned. It doesn't mean people don't appreciate Felicity, it's just her abilities are of a completely different kind.

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Delphi

Delphi

(edited)
On 6/25/2016 at 11:18 AM, tv echo said:

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but again with the "heroes" being limited to comics-named superheroes?  Felicity's computer hacking ability is pretty powerful and stopped a nuke from destroying Star City.  Granted, she has no superpowers and no costume, but I'd certainly put her ahead of Arsenal and Speedy.

These are the same fanboys who didn't consider Oracle a superhero because she fought crime from her lair instead of as Batgirl.  Their opinions mean nothing to me since they are all clearly deluded. 

Edited by Delphi
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Guest

Guest

Has anyone seen that poster going around of all the DC shows on CW with Supergirl front and center? It's like the whitest poster I've ever seen in my life. LOL. I just wondered if it was real or fanmade? I'm guessing the latter if no one has posted it here.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)
6 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Has anyone seen that poster going around of all the DC shows on CW with Supergirl front and center? It's like the whitest poster I've ever seen in my life. LOL. I just wondered if it was real or fanmade? I'm guessing the latter if no one has posted it here.

Well Wentworth is considered a PoC so there are 2 of them in there :p So let's just see:

2/10 people are MoCs - 20%

2/10 people are women - 20%

0/10 are WoCs - 0%

2/10 are of a different religion (Hindu/Buddhist/Jew)... - 20%

Diversity at its finest

Comparing these numbers to what the shows actually have:

MOC: 5/19 - 26%

WOC: 2/19 - 10%

Women: 6/19 - 31%

Different religion: 3/19 (Unless I'm missing someone) 16%

Edited by wonderwall
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 4:59 PM, Sakura12 said:

The 15 Most Powerful Heroes Of The Arrowverse

http://screenrant.com/best-arrowverse-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-arrow-supergirl-cw-heroes/

15. Captain Cold & Heatwave
14. Arsenal
13. Rip Hunter
12. Hawkgirl & Hawkman
11. The Atom
10. Speedy
9.  Firestorm
8.  Vibe
7.  White Canary
6.  Katana
5.  Constintine
4.  Green Arrow
3.  Supergirl
2.  Martian Manhunter
1. Of course is the Flash. 

Ok, I agree with the absurdity of Flash on the top of the list but can I also point out that they have Cisco at 8?  And how about the fact that they have Captain Cold on the bottom when he's the guy that Barry made a truce with because he couldn't beat him.  But yeah, Barry is the most powerful. 

Quote

Actor or character? I believe both Stein and Ray Palmer are jewish characters.  

Stein yes, but when did they say Palmer was Jewish?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Ok, I agree with the absurdity of Flash on the top of the list but can I also point out that they have Cisco at 8?  And how about the fact that they have Captain Cold on the bottom when he's the guy that Barry made a truce with because he couldn't beat him.  But yeah, Barry is the most powerful. 

Stein yes, but when did they say Palmer was Jewish?

Ray Palmer is Jewish in the comics. I don't think anything was specifically stated that altered or confirmed that on the show.  I remember talks/speculation surrounding the Menorah on Felicity's desk for 309 and people talking about Ray being Jewish.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Yeah, that's the poster. Doesn't surprise me that it's real because it's just so bad. Continue to disappoint me, CW. Just go right ahead. 

Edited by Guest
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TrueMyth

TrueMyth

49 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Ray Palmer is Jewish in the comics. I don't think anything was specifically stated that altered or confirmed that on the show.  I remember talks/speculation surrounding the Menorah on Felicity's desk for 309 and people talking about Ray being Jewish.

That is actually really interesting.  I wish they had brought it up during the Felicity/Ray relationship!  It could have been a nice extra bond between them.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I just want to point out that Constantine and Vibe (Cisco) are included in that ScreenRant list of "The 15 Most Powerful Heroes Of The Arrowverse" - and I don't see them as action characters.  If Curtis had become Mr. Terrific this past season, he probably would've been on that list as well.

As for that new CW poster... I've only seen Wentworth Miller play white characters on TV shows and in movies - as evidenced by his characters always having white siblings (Peyton List played his sister on The Flash, Dominic Purcell played his brother on Prison Break, Tyron Leitso played his brother on Dinotopia, and Ali Larter played his sister on Resident Evil: Afterlife).  So to count him as one of the POCs is stretching it.

Edited by tv echo
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Delphi

Delphi

Regarding religion,  while it's not stated in the show, I do have my doubts that Sara or Nyssa and possibly Malcolm consider themselves Christian.    And I'd wager that Jefferson is possibly Baptist or at least from a much more Christian family than the other protagonists. And we have no idea what kind of religion commonly practiced whenever Rip is from. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

6 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Wentworth Miller is definitely POC. Not sure about his character though.

Who's.Jefferson?

Wentworth is a POC, Snart is white. 

Jefferson is Jax from Legends of Tomorrow. 

As for religion they've only talked about it with Felicity and maybe Stein, No one else has said anything about their religion. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Unpopular opinion here but, i don't have a problem with the WB poster, it makes sense.  Arrow, Flash and Supergirl ar the stars of their TV Show with, everyone else being a supporting character.  LOT is the only true Team/Ensemble show so they should give shout outs to their entire cast.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
26 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Unpopular opinion here but, i don't have a problem with the WB poster, it makes sense.  Arrow, Flash and Supergirl ar the stars of their TV Show with, everyone else being a supporting character.  LOT is the only true Team/Ensemble show so they should give shout outs to their entire cast.

I agree.  

Last year's poster complicated things by throwing Black Canary on there, and that messed everything up, because if she was on there, where were the other supporting characters?  But this is just show leads + all of LoT which doesn't have a lead.  So it makes sense to me. 

Edited by Starfish35
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

23 minutes ago, bijoux said:

The problem I can see is how these shows are cast. The poster is just reflective of that. 

Yup. I don't have a problem with the poster, it accurately represents what the Berlantiverse is: 3 shows with clear leads + one ensemble show. But if we start seeing "representation" in its deeper meaning, then the poster makes me kinda embarrassed for the abject lack of diversity in the Berlantiverse, especially wrt to leading characters that can get their face up front on a poster.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

9 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

But if we start seeing "representation" in its deeper meaning, then the poster makes me kinda embarrassed for the abject lack of diversity in the Berlantiverse, especially wrt to leading characters that can get their face up front on a poster.

Yup, this is the main complaint I've come across on social media. At least from those who've articulated their views instead of just saying the poster sucked :P

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looptab

looptab

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Last year's poster complicated things by throwing Black Canary on there, and that messed everything up, because if she was on there, where were the other supporting characters?  

You mean the poster from the superheroes fight club? Or another one?

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Guest

Guest

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

But if we start seeing "representation" in its deeper meaning, then the poster makes me kinda embarrassed for the abject lack of diversity in the Berlantiverse, especially wrt to leading characters that can get their face up front on a poster.

This. It's still the whitest poster I've seen, which was my main complaint about it. No matter how many times people say WM is POC too, it doesn't change much. 

I'm also still waiting for a poster with all the heroes who don't wear masks, with some kind of slogan that says as much, but that will never happen so... 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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calliope1975

calliope1975

If you want to get marketing nerdy - here's how Troika rebranded the CW in 2012 http://www.troika.tv/cw-2012-rebrand/ and their work in 2014 http://www.troika.tv/cw-fall-brand-campaign/?cat=4. And, here's a tiny bit on the Dare To Defy campaign http://ashleyhsieh.com/cw-daretodefy/. 

I'm sure this doesn't go in this thread, but it's in response to Quarks, so....?

Fun fact - Troika is doing a huge study on fandom, and I tried to get a job there because that fascinates me. They didn't hire me. /wompwomp Their loss (and mine.) ;D

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wonderwall

wonderwall

25 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Felicity's been on the Arrow show posters before, just not the big shared universe poster.  Iris never has, but Flash as far as I know has never done a group poster.  

I guess what I mean is, people who don't have masks (bar Stein) have never been on posters because the tagline is "dare to defy", however, it's not that obvious when non-mask people defy the law, which is most likely why we'll probably never see them on a 'Dare to Defy' promo... 

Laurel was in it last year because she has a mask and I have no doubt that if she was still alive she'd be in this promo too...

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Diggle's not been on a group poster either and he actually wears a mask now. All that tells me though is no one has a clue what they're doing when they create these kinds of things.

So again...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Guest
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)
Quote

Laurel was in it last year because she has a mask and I have no doubt that if she was still alive she'd be in this promo too...

Thea and Diggle had masks, and they weren't included.  Only Laurel was.  

YMMV, but to me it makes sense to only include the leads.  When you start going beyond that, either you have to pull in the whole cast, and then you end up with 30 people on the poster, or you make some supporting characters look like they're more important than others. Which was precisely the problem with including Laurel.  

Edited by Starfish35
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)
5 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Thea and Diggle had masks, and they weren't included.  Only Laurel was.  

Sometimes I feel like the CW PR group has a huge hard on for Laurel :p

But you're right Digg/Thea have masks... That's why I feel like they'd be incorporated into posters before non-masked people would (For huge group posters not individual show posters)

Edited by wonderwall
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Starfish35

Starfish35

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

That's why I feel like they'd be incorporated into posters before non-masked people would (For huge group posters not individual show posters)

If and when that happens, I'll get irritated about it.  Since it hasn't happened yet....*shrug*

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Just now, Starfish35 said:

If and when that happens, I'll get irritated about it.  Since it hasn't happened yet....*shrug*

True! I've been so frustrated with the whole Brexit thing and how it's affecting my work that I'm annoyed at everything right now :/

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