Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[lemotomato]

Are they skipping Arrow because they don't want us to know who is in the grave?

This is ridiculous...CWPR is the WORST.

Part of me thinks that Flash, iZombie, and LoT got extra promotion because they're new/sophomore shows. But mostly I'm just annoyed that Arrow apparently got left out *again*, when all the other DC shows are represented.

[Starfish35]

I know she was in it, I just thought it was weird that they had all the cast but him.

LoT spoilers from today's Ask Ausiello column:

http://tvline.com/2016/03/17/legends-of-tomorrow-season-2-cast-superhero-dc-spoilers/

I'm not totally clear on the spoiler rules for this thread, so I'll put this behind spoiler tags.

Question: I’m very happy that Legends of Tomorrow was renewed, but I’m worried about the rumor that they are going to have a whole new cast. I don’t think I’ll want to watch if Captain Cold isn’t in it. Do you know with anything about the casting for Season 2? —Stacy

Ausiello: What we have here is a case of “The Telephone Game,” wherein a producer recently said, “Our team for Season 2, if not in the [physical] makeup of the team, will be changed in the way that [the characters] will be different [people]” — meaning, Rip, Leonard, Sara et al will have been changed as people by their adventures during Season 1. Regardless of whether that’s the source of your confusion, I have it on good authority that a wholesale cast change is not at all in the cards.

♦ Rumor has it the final scene of Legends of Tomorrow's May 19 season finale will introduce a “beloved superhero from the DC canon” whose mysterious agenda serves as “a launching off point for Season 2.”

Edited March 17, 2016 by Starfish35

[Genki]

I really hope Arrow does get a video, but would not be surprised if they didn't.

[Trini]

I think Arrow will, but yeah, it feels like CW PR is trolling. I really thought it'd be the next show after Flash.

[jay741982]

I think Arrow will, but yeah, it feels like CW PR is trolling. I really thought it'd be the next show after Flash.

Well IZombie is DC too so I figured we would get an Arrow video after the IZombie one. I want a Supergirl but they might all say Superman. Same with Gotham would probably all say Batman. Anyone got any predictions for who the Arrow Cast would say?

[tarotx]

I'm hoping that they just flipped Arrow and LOT because LOT would be on today (if they weren't on a small Hiatus) and we will bookend with the CW's version of Superman and Batman.

[Velocity23]

 

I think Arrow will, but yeah, it feels like CW PR is trolling. I really thought it'd be the next show after Flash

CW PR has been trolling the Arrow fans for 2 years by not giving a shit about them

[statsgirl]

I think I'd like Brandon Routh in real life. Ray Palmer, not so much.

 

Laura Hurley is awesome. No question.  LOL as the last five especially.

 

Arrow steady vs last season, Flash droped 4%, AOS down 17%, Gotham down 33%, Agent Carter 40% down.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/03/2015-2016-tv-season-in-one-depressing-chart.html?mid=twitter_vulture

I think the CW should be pretty happy with Arrow.  Even NCIS dropped by 16% and I thought nothing could hurt that.  (Poor Galavant.)

 

 

I wasn't impressed with this actress on LoT. She wasn't bad, but not that memorable.

Ali Liebert is a good actress and she did a great job on Bomb Girls but that article read  like it was written by her p.r. person.  Does she think we're so addicted to superhero shows that that's all we'd be interested in seeing her doing?

[Starfish35]

Here's another bit from the Ask Ausiello column linked above:

Question: Can we get some juicy spoilers on the Flash/Supergirl crossover? —Cordell

Ausiello: Look (or listen?) for shout-outs to Cisco, Caitlin, S.T.A.R. Labs and Green Arrow in the March 28 event.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Starfish35

[lemotomato]

AK is one of the Supergirl EPs, isn't he? I'm going to guess that the Green Arrow "shout out" is a diss.

[Guest]

I still think it's weird that Supergirl can't even go one season on her own before getting a crossover. They could have waited until s2 tbh. This and the constant shout-outs and mentions of Superman just bug me. 

[Morrigan2575]

I still think it's weird that Supergirl can't even go one season on her own before getting a crossover. They could have waited until s2 tbh. This and the constant shout-outs and mentions of Superman just bug me.

Given that Supergirl's ratings just hit another series low (1.3) and is pretty much as low as Flash's lower rated episodes, she really couldn't.

[nksarmi]

Supergirl is great, but she's not on the CW - she's on a network that will demand much higher ratings. The Flash crossover can only help and since I really want that show to succeed - I won't complain.

 

Has it been announced for renewal yet?

[Guest]

Eh. I know why they did it. I don't have to like it though.

[Primal Slayer]

If they are going to be able to, they totally are going to do cross overs. Flash/Vixen, they were even trying to do a Constantine cross over I believe before it was cancelled.

[jay741982]

Supergirl is great, but she's not on the CW - she's on a network that will demand much higher ratings. The Flash crossover can only help and since I really want that show to succeed - I won't complain.

 

Has it been announced for renewal yet?

No but the president of CBS it's very likely to happen

I still think it's weird that Supergirl can't even go one season on her own before getting a crossover. They could have waited until s2 tbh. This and the constant shout-outs and mentions of Superman just bug me.

Um Hello Flash Arrow Crossover in Flashs first season LOL

[kismet]

I actually liked when Supergirl got a little mean in the last episode. In general, I like the show - but often it is too happy or light. I feel it needs a little more darkness or realism at times. I would appreciate if they let Kara be more than just the perfect girl. So many of the episodes are just too predictable. I want a more realistic experience. I know its about Kara struggling to balance life & superpowers, but I think it just doesn't hit a broad enough experience for the audience to want to tune in. At times it feels too junior and not full grown.

[statsgirl]

I'm sad that Arrow exists in a different universe than Supergirl so we'll never get a Supergirl/Arrow crossover.

 

I find most of the CBS action shows to be too simplistic so I was very glad to see Kara getting complex the last episode and mixing things up in her relationships with Alex, Cat and James, although Cat seems to have forgiven her already, something she wouldn't do for Kara. Perfect Kara was starting to be boring.

 

J'onn letting himself be captured is Arrow sweeps level of stupid plotting though.

Edited March 18, 2016 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

J'onn letting himself be captured is Arrow sweeps level of stupid plotting though.

I'm hoping that it will turn out that this is his way of being accepted for himself. He's purposely letting the chips fall where they may so they can get past the lies and he can stop hiding. As mean Kara pointed out, he has so much he can contribute if he didn't have to hide his secret.

[statsgirl]

Do you think that's what the show is going to do the rest of the season?  Examine what Mean Kara truth-spoke and deal with all that?

[tv echo]

Not just Daredevil, here’s a super-list of super-amazing superhero shows
Rohan Naahar and Soumya Srivastava  Updated: Mar 18, 2016 09:46 IST
http://www.hindustantimes.com/tv/not-just-daredevil-here-s-a-super-list-of-super-amazing-superhero-shows/story-qr7SsR4XSBQvGdmYjRXskO.html

Agent Carter/Agents of SHIELD (2015)
While the Marvel movies are consistently well-received, their TV properties haven’t quite achieved that level of success. Agents of SHIELD is a scattershot show that is delirious fun with one episode and just plain old procedural in the next. But Agent Carter on the other hand, is brilliant. Haley Atwell’s performance as a woman in a man’s world is thrilling fun. And the detailed period setting makes the whole thing seem like a ‘50s movie.
*  *  *
Arrow (2012)
*  *  *
Arrow is the show that started a small revolution on TV. It’s success created a superhero universe of DC characters even before the movies. Sure, Oliver Quinn’s story is familiar (*cough-batman-cough*), but because of this show, we got Flash and Supergirl. Not to mention the very comic book-like crossover episodes. And that’s what’s so great about Arrow: It’s like watching a comic book issue come to life. And isn’t that what we all want?
*  *  *
Supergirl (2015)
So that’s what we meant by not getting superheroines right. The story itself is so stupid: Supergirl aka Kara Zor-El is Superman’s distant cousin and she too survived the destruction of Krypton. Also, she landed on Earth like Superman. She too wears glasses to conceal her real identity. What?? Is there anything original here at all? But apparently, some people still watch it, so judge for yourself.
*  *  *
Flash (2014)
This one is just too chocolatey to be taken seriously. No doubt, to be able to run at the speed of light is an amazing superpower to have but that is basically it for this show. It is a spin-off from Arrow and spin-offs rarely do well (not looking at you Better Call Saul, you keep doing your thing). So Flash is actually Barry Allen (the least superhero-y name one could have), a crime scene investigator who is really pretty fast. He fights bad guys while juggling with some romance. Zzzzzzz... we’re bored already.

Edited March 18, 2016 by tv echo

[Trini]

EW article about the Supergirl/Flash crossover; with new photos. Also talks a bit about how the different universes connect.

... Supergirl’s Southern California shoot location doesn’t hurt either. “Almost everything has been in the sun, which is very different than when we do Flarrow,” Gustin says, referring to the Vancouver-based Flash and Arrow production. “It’s just lighter, brighter, and a different type of energy.”

... Hopefully close enough that they’ll need a rematch next season, maybe with Green Arrow and the Legends as an audience. “That’s in the cards at this point,” says Gustin. “The whole point of us doing this crossover is setting up the fact that maybe next year we can cross over all of them.”

Edited March 18, 2016 by Trini

[Primal Slayer]

If they don't try to do a Crisis event, it will be such a waste.   

[BkWurm1]

Do you think that's what the show is going to do the rest of the season?  Examine what Mean Kara truth-spoke and deal with all that?

Well, at least in the next episode, I would think. 

[tarotx]

So we didn't get an Arrow vs BatmanVsSuperman?

 

:(

Edited March 19, 2016 by tarotx

[lemotomato]

So we didn't get an Arrow vs BatmanVsSuperman?

 

:(

Because the CW PR hates Arrow. See also: lack of promo stills for 4x16 when episode stills for Flash 2x16 were posted last week.

 

At this rate, apinknightmare's prediction of the 416 stills getting posted next Thursday is going to come true.

Edited March 19, 2016 by lemotomato

[BkWurm1]

Because the CW PR hates Arrow. See also: lack of promo stills for 4x16 when episode stills for Flash 2x16 were posted last week.

 

At this rate, apinknightmare's prediction of the 416 stills getting posted next Thursday is going to come true.

Maybe they are saving it for next week so they have something closer to the movie opener. 

[ComicFan777]

Random thought: I think it would be really cool if they had an Arrow/iZombie crossover since maxrager energy drinks/drugs make zombies - it would be within the realm of Arrow to deal with just like mirakuru and vertigo storylines.  iZombie is a DC property, so it would be cool if they could work it into an episode. 

[BkWurm1]

Random thought: I think it would be really cool if they had an Arrow/iZombie crossover since maxrager energy drinks/drugs make zombies - it would be within the realm of Arrow to deal with just like mirakuru and vertigo storylines.  iZombie is a DC property, so it would be cool if they could work it into an episode. 

As long as the crossovers don't jump to other CW properties.  Though if we had one with Crazy Ex Girlfriend we'd finally get that musical episode.  I wonder how far Star City is from West Covina?

[lemotomato]

As long as the crossovers don't jump to other CW properties.  Though if we had one with Crazy Ex Girlfriend we'd finally get that musical episode.  I wonder how far Star City is from West Covina?

Only two hours away, four in traffic.

[FurryFury]

Just chiming in to say that so far, s2 of Daredevil is fantastic. Huge improvement over s1, IMHO. So if you were unimpressed with the show before, I suggest you check it out.

 

I mean, I legit teared up at one point. That's something I didn't expect from this show.

[Sakura12]

I"m loving season 2 of Daredevil. If you're talking about the graveyard monologue, then I teared up at that too. That is what an Emmy worthy scene looks like, Arrow writers. I'm really liking Elektra too. The Marvel tv shows continue to do a great job writing women. 

 

I wasn't going to watch Luke Cage and still probably won't but I did like in the teaser trailer where Luke after getting shot full of bullets goes "I'm about sick of having to buy new clothes"  

[FurryFury]

If you're talking about the graveyard monologue, then I teared up at that too.

 

Yeah, I'm four episodes in, and I'm a bit afraid that the next few won't be as good without that character. I didn't expect to be so impressed by him (and the actor). Just another proof that tropes are not bad - it's still possible to make something great out of fairly generic manpain and fridging in the backstory.

 

I'll probably watch Luke Cage if it has Jessica Jones, otherwise, I dunno, he's kinda boring and the actor didn't impress me.

[GirlvsTV]

I'm also enjoying Daredevil's new season so far. It's interesting that both Arrow and DD cover a lot of the same ground thematically, but Arrow feels like it was written in crayons and DD like its written in a HQ fountain pen with bonus calligraphy.

Tbh, it just makes me that much more disappointed in Arrow. The framework is often there for some great stories to explore, but they whiff it on the execution every time.

[Morrigan2575]

Dammit I'm a full season behind. I still have to watch S1

[apinknightmare]

I think I'm in the minority in that I thought Daredevil was incredibly boring. Not terrible or anything, just not even remotely engaging for me. I tuned out after 4 1/2 episodes in the first season). Arrow at least entertains me, and keeps me wanting more. Daredevil? Not so much.

I'll give the second season a shot, though, especially if what FurryFury wrote is true.

Edited March 21, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Sakura12]

It took me 3 weeks to get through Daredevil season 1. It got much better towards the end. Season 2 has been great so far I'm already 6 episodes in. 

 

I also love the tie ins to Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, The Avengers, Agents of Shield, and Agent Carter. They don't need special crossovers, just the mentions are nice enough for me to know they all exist in the same universe. 

 

Daredevil is what Arrow thinks it is. It's dark and brutal but not near as depressing or stupid as Arrow is. 

[manbearpig]

I never bothered to finish the first season of Daredevil, and critics seem to be saying that the second year is more of the same, so I won't be returning to watch that show. I briefly considered checking it out to see Punisher and Elektra, but I just can't. I'm watching enough already without returning to something that never clicked with me in the first place. I don't think it is bad by any means, but it didn't grab me, either.

Edited March 19, 2016 by manbearpig

[FurryFury]

It took me a few weeks to finish season 1 as well, but yesterday, I stayed up until 4 AM because I couldn't stop watching. I'm now going to get some wine and continue binging. Hope they won't botch Elektra! I'm a bit afraid of the possible love triangle, TBH. 

 

I think s1 was boring at times, and it also tried to hard to be a prestige drama in the first half, and then swung too hard and fast in the other direction. I was on the verge of dropping the show when Stick appeared and revitalized my interest somewhat. I'm now seriously glad I didn't. 

[calliope1975]

I just finished Ep 3 of Daredevil, and I think I do like it better so far than the first season (which I did enjoy.) I'm enjoying the addition of the new characters, and while I was a bit iffy at Jon Bernthal's casting, he's excellent and is embodying his character quite well. 

 

I agree that this is the show Arrow thinks it is, and they are hilariously wrong. I know standards are different from The CW to Netflix, but I can't help but compare the two. It really shows what talent and creativity can get you, and it feels like Arrow had more of that in the first two seasons than it does now. 

[nksarmi]

I'm so glad you guys brought this up because I too was disappointed with season one of Daredevil and was debating watching the second season.  But he did finally get the suit at the end of the first season AND I'm curious about how they do Electra so.... I'm going to cross my fingers and hope you guys are right and season two will be an improvement.

 

Sidenote: I loved Jessica Jones and I probably will check out Luke Cage because of it (not sure I would have if she didn't get me interested).

 

ETA: Comparing Arrow to Daredevil - having not seen the second season - Arrow wins BIG time for me.  For all Arrow might have wrong with it - I still care about these characters.  I haven't yet connected with the characters on Daredevil.  Matt is boring to me and I don't feel like they have yet showed what he should be capable of - I really got tired of him getting beat up all the time.  I don't care much about his friend or assistant (though we did frequently joke that her previous incarnation - Jessica from True Blood - would kick all their butts, Matt and villain alike and the show might improve if she vamped out).  The one character I feel something for - the nurse - showed up on Jessica Jones and that was nice.  Still, if DD wants to keep me, it's going to have to make me invest somehow. 

 

I think a lot of shows forget how important that is - making your audience invest.  Sometimes shows that have great writing and acting and stories still miss because they never make you connect to the characters in a meaningful way.  Arrow accomplished that for me which is why I'm still watching even when I think the show has gotten nonsensical. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by nksarmi

[Primal Slayer]

The biggest thing is how both shows utilize flashbacks. We are still able to see DDs journey and how his past helps progress the story/characters, but they are only shown when needed whereas Arrow just does flashbacks to do flashbacks. They rarely add anything nowadays are just a waste of time.

[tv echo]

Amber Heard has been cast as Mera (the undersea queen and wife of Aquaman in DC Comics)...
http://www.etonline.com/movies/184773_amber_heard_confirms_her_aquaman_role_justice_league_dishes_on_interesting_mera_costume/

[Carrie Ann]

Hmmm, I really like DD and Arrow, and I honestly don't think Arrow was ever aiming to be what DD is. I think they're pretty far apart, tonally, stylistically, and even in most of the content, aside from some standard comic book tropes.

 

IMO, the DC shows are less serious (and take themselves less seriously), as well as less ambitious in some regards than the Marvel shows (other than AoS which just doesn't work for me), and I think that's an intentional choice, as well as a result of being on The CW instead of Netflix. I like both approaches, personally. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[FurryFury]

It's not the show Arrow wishes to be, but it's close to what I wanted it to be back at the beginning of season 2. I get that Angel vibe from both of them, not full-on, but still distinct enough (of course, it's been gone from Arrow for 2 seasons now).

[GirlvsTV]

To clarify, when I was comparing Arrow and DD I was specifically referring to the way the writing differed when addressing some of the same 'vigilante life' themes. I still haven't really connected to Matt as a character, or a hero, the way I did Oliver. Tbh, I think I connected more with the Punisher than DD (not sure what that says about me). I do like Karen a lot though. I also found season 1 of DD pretty slow, but I think season 2 has improved on that so far.

[Carrie Ann]

It's not the show Arrow wishes to be, but it's close to what I wanted it to be back at the beginning of season 2.

 

Ok, gotcha.

 

To clarify, when I was comparing Arrow and DD I was specifically referring to the way the writing differed when addressing some of the same 'vigilante life' themes.

 

That makes sense, I just still feel like Arrow didn't have the same ambitions as DD, so I don't really compare them in that way. The stories the DC shows tell are basically all at surface level. They don't really get at larger social issues, and when they touch on bigger things like disability, or PTSD, or addiction (like DD/JJ do), they are little more than plot points. That's all they were even intended to be, because these shows don't try to really delve into things like that.

[Orion]

I agree. Daredevil is what I wanted Arrow to be like and where I thought it was going after Season 2. The gritty, serious, based in reality take on a Superhero origin story with a focus on a core trio. A hero that uses his skills to defeat well fleshed out villains with overwhelming resources, who honestly believe they are doing the right thing. (The Punisher is a lot like what I would have loved Slade to be.) Electra is being used like what I wanted from Sara Lance's Black Canary. Investigations and hunting clues, that all core members of the team participate in, leading up to huge fights where the hero is the best fighter and wins against the bad guys. Foggy is what I would have loved to have Diggle's role in the show.

 

A lot of that did exist until Arrow started throwing in time travel and magic and pits that bring people back to life and all that other nonsense. Add it when they started adding people to the team and the lost the core three focus and dumbed down Oliver that's where these shows divided and I think to Arrow's huge disadvantage. I can't help but watch Daredevil and wish for what Arrow could have been. Daredevil's stories with the characters that I care about in Arrow would have been an amazing show.

[nksarmi]

See I love that Arrow embraced the comic book element of its universe.  I don't need too much reality and grit.  I loved when Oliver was talking to Felicity about finding a way to walk again and he pointed out that they lived in a world with metahumans, and time travel, and etc....  I don't want Arrow to be just a modern day Robin Hood.  I love the Batman quality of Oliver facing villains - even magical, extraordinary villains - with just his wit (or Felicity's - hers is better), technology, and skills but I don't want him just to face everyday bad guys.

 

I loved the mystery of season one and largely consider it Arrow's best season but I enjoyed season two as well because it was so personal for Oliver. But I don't think the show is losing what made it special because we've now had supernatural elements to it.  I think those things could have been handled in a fantastic way as Oliver tried to fight the super human with just human means.  I think Arrow lost its way because it can't figure out a way to get from point A to point B without making its hero look like a dumbass.  The show really does too many things just for the sake of advancing plot without - it seems - stopping to think about why its characters would do such and such. And if they run into a moment where things seem wrong - they don't fix it, they just push the square peg into the round hole and move on. 

 

Much of season three suffered from this fault and the BM drama this season definitely seems to fall into this category.  Still, I think the show is on the rebound this season.  Perhaps season five will prove even better.  But as far as I'm concerned, they can keep all the crazy comic book stuff - there are plenty of gritty crime/detective shows on television - the comic book stuff is what makes Flarrowverse unique.  I just hope they can stop making Oliver look stupid and maintain some consistent character development going forward.

[Sakura12]

Arrow and Daredevil are completely different. However the main plot of a vigilante super hero that wants to save their city is the same. Matt also gets called out on his disappearing acts and constant lies. Foggy still loves and worries about his friend but he won't take his shit all the time. Matt causes Matt's problems, no one else does. Daredevil does a much better job of including all the characters, including the new ones. IMO the Punisher and Elektra have fit nicely into the show, they don't feel forced or unnecessary.

Daredevil is also able to feel more real and gritty while living in a world where super powers exist. Jessica Jones did the same and she had super strength and controlled falling (or whatever she called her flying).

Something that needs to be said to Oliver and Barry. "You don't get to create danger, then protect us from that danger. That's not heroic, that's insane"

Edited March 19, 2016 by Sakura12