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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
in Arrow

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Huh?! (on BC references)...

 

Justice for all: Superhero shows 'Supergirl,' 'Daredevil' help bring diversity to TV
By Neal Justin Star Tribune  MARCH 11, 2016 — 2:44PM
http://www.startribune.com/justice-for-all-superhero-shows-supergirl-daredevil-help-bring-diversity-to-tv/371727921/

Other members of this unofficial justice league include Daredevil, the blind crime-fighter who returns with new Netflix adventures this Friday; Luke Cage, an African-American bruiser graduating from “Jessica Jones” to his own series, and Black Canary, who uses her powers of seduction on men and women on the CW’s “Arrow” and “Legends of Tomorrow” (as the White Canary). Kids channel Boomerang is adding “Super Hero High,” featuring female DC protagonists, to its Saturday morning animation block starting next weekend.
*  *  *
The matter-of-fact inclusiveness extends beyond gender. The color of Luke Cage’s skin or Black Canary’s sexual orientation are not ignored, but they haven’t led to “very special” episodes, either.
*  *  *
Greg Berlanti, whose fingerprints are on several DC-generated shows, has made a vow to increase the number of minority and female directors he employs. From the first season of “Arrow” to the second, people of color at the helm of individual episodes have risen in number by 19 to 30 percent. He’s also promised that “Legends of Tomorrow” will feature more diversity on-screen over the next three years.
*  *  *
“First off, shows have to be great, but they all have to explore something different and be diverse in their own ways,” said Geoff Johns, the chief creative officer at DC Comics. “As long as there’s diversity, I don’t think there is a saturation point.”
Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Pretty sure the author doesn't really watch Arrow or LoT. It's clear that both the Black Canary and White Canary references are to Sara Lance, not Laurel Lance. Which, as a huge Sara fan, I love because Sara is my Black Canary and will probably be the one remembered long after Arrow ends (IMO)

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I don't know it seem like the author is calling her Black Canary that just happens to go by White Canary. Which I love, Sara is the Black Canary for most of us no matter what color is in front of her name. He's ignoring Laurel exists. Which I'm fine with. 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

So I finally saw the Supergirl episode where Alex tells Kara that Hank was lying about who killed Astra and Holy Cow that was good!  What a fantastic scene - I might have teared up.  SA and EBR are capable of that if the writers would let them have that kind of material.

 

Anyway, I think Supergirl gets stronger all the time - if it was on the CW, I think it would have years in front of it.  It being on CBS makes me a little nervous but I hope they keep it.  I think they are getting a lot of praise for it which hopefully will slant in favor of renewal.

 

I hope they don't cut the Legends budget too much - maybe DC will supplement it a little.  It really is a great vehicle for them to keep people excited about the "team up" concept.  Sure, it's no Justice League, but it does put people in that frame of mind I think.  Plus, I wonder how proceeds from action figures and such help keep these kinds of shows on the air.

Edited by nksarmi
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bijoux

bijoux

Pretty sure the author doesn't really watch Arrow or LoT. It's clear that both the Black Canary and White Canary references are to Sara Lance, not Laurel Lance. Which, as a huge Sara fan, I love because Sara is my Black Canary and will probably be the one remembered long after Arrow ends (IMO)

But even then, when did Sara go around seducing people? Yes, she's a sexual being, but the article phrases it as if she uses that sexuality as a weapon, which I can't say was the impression I got from her time on Arrow or the scenes I've seen on LoT.

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

But even then, when did Sara go around seducing people? Yes, she's a sexual being, but the article phrases it as if she uses that sexuality as a weapon, which I can't say was the impression I got from her time on Arrow or the scenes I've seen on LoT.

Honestly, i think it just goes down to not watching and just skimming information online. So he knows that Sara was connected to Nyssa and Oliver on Arrow and maybe heard about the Nurse on LoT (sketchy) or just read reviews/interviews that linked Sara to Ray and Cold, etc

Character wise it's wrong but, i think it just mostly from massive ignorance of the subject.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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quarks

quarks

Plus, I wonder how proceeds from action figures and such help keep these kinds of shows on the air.

 

The answer is "lots," if sales are decent, but apart from Sara Lance, Ray Palmer, and Captain Cold, none of the Legends characters have a lot of available merchandise to sell right now (the Hawkgirl merchandise is based on the comics/Justice League cartoon), and even their merchandise is pretty limited.

 

This seems to be an overall problem with DC - I'm noticing that the knockoff stores sell a lot of Arrow, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and IZombie merchandise (especially T-shirts), so the demand is out there, but DC is not exactly offering fans all that much. Disney has about ten times as many authorized Agent Carter items as DC has authorized Arrow items, for instance, even though Arrow has been on for two more seasons and several more episodes. Admittedly I have no idea if anyone would actually buy authorized Arrow pajamas, but since fans seem to be buying authorized Agent Carter and unauthorized Arrow pajamas, it might at least be worth a try.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I wouldn't call it "seducing" but Sara did flirt with young Martin Stein and the nurse. She knew what she was doing and how they were reacting to her. However I do think the author of the article took his info from Sara's line in the last episode where she said "I was liberating her, with the option of seducing her later".

With not mentioning Laurel. It's more that the author called her Black Canary twice in the article with White Canary in parenthesis once. If he doesn't watch the show than someone else told him Sara Lance the Black Canary is bi-sexual.

Edited by Sakura12
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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

The answer is "lots," if sales are decent, but apart from Sara Lance, Ray Palmer, and Captain Cold, none of the Legends characters have a lot of available merchandise to sell right now (the Hawkgirl merchandise is based on the comics/Justice League cartoon), and even their merchandise is pretty limited.

 

This seems to be an overall problem with DC - I'm noticing that the knockoff stores sell a lot of Arrow, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and IZombie merchandise (especially T-shirts), so the demand is out there, but DC is not exactly offering fans all that much. Disney has about ten times as many authorized Agent Carter items as DC has authorized Arrow items, for instance, even though Arrow has been on for two more seasons and several more episodes. Admittedly I have no idea if anyone would actually buy authorized Arrow pajamas, but since fans seem to be buying authorized Agent Carter and unauthorized Arrow pajamas, it might at least be worth a try.

 

Well from what little I understand about cartoons (I have some big fans of Young Justice in this house) merchandise sales are HUGE.  I guess it makes sense that they would see what demand is before they start making new LoT merchandise, but I hope they expand their line. 

 

I suspect with the addition of LoT, Flarrowverse could make some interesting calendars! :)

 

But no seriously, my kids interest in all things Flash, Green Arrow, Hawkgirl, Deathstroke, and DC in general have increased a lot because of these shows.  I would think DC would have some way of measuring that.

Edited by nksarmi
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

"My TV daughter is your TV mom! I'm your TV granddad!" @RattyBurvil

@CaityLotz: "WHAT?!"

 

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I thought this was funny. Alex Kingston played River song (aka Melody Pond, the daughter of Rory Williams and Amy Pond) on Doctor Who. Arthur was Rory.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

GB and AK were part of the Supergirl panel at PaleyFest-Los Angeles on Sun., Mar. 13...

 

‘Supergirl’ Cast And Execs Talk Feminism, Gay Characters & ‘The Flash’ Crossover – PaleyFest
by Amanda N'Duka March 13, 2016 10:10pm
http://deadline.com/2016/03/supergirl-cbs-paleyfest-1201719712/

The cast and creatives of Supergirl took the stage on Day 3 of PaleyFest to what fans were hoping would be the confirmation of a second season. Well, no luck there, but castmembers did say they were optimist of a renewal after CBS head Les Moonves said he planned on renewing five freshman series....
*  *  *
On why he chose The Flash to be the first comic book crossover character on Supergirl, Berlanti said: “We needed to create a way to do it. We had to introduce Superman since you’ve heard about him and you’ve heard about Supergirl, but in worlds of Arrow and Flash, they didn’t exist in that world. We introduced the multiverse in The Flash this year, and that was always our way in.” But fans shouldn’t hold their breath for a visit from the Man of Steel. “We’re so thrilled that Supergirl is our point of view,” Adler said. “We’re thrilled to continue to tell her story.”
Edited by tv echo
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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

Well Rip Hunter did get the line "I've seen Dark Knight die and Men of Steel fall" or something to that effect, so I wouldn't say that they NEVER exist in the Flarrowverse - just not yet.  Plus they've shown Flash as a founding member of the Justice League when he runs through the speed force so I would say that's all in the future of this universe.

 

What the likely means is that much like Vixen operates in Detroit, Batman is already operating in Flarrowverse Gotham - they just aren't talking about him on our shows (Oracle pretty much confirms this in my opinion).  So maybe in the coming seasons, they will get to pepper in a line about an "flying man" in Metropolis and then we can have MB show up on Flash and PowerGirl or something. 

Edited by nksarmi
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kismet

kismet

It will basically all come down to DC and when they want to loosen the reigns on their Bat & Superman properties. They seem pretty content with limiting access to the BM/SM related characters. Perhaps after the new SM v BM dies down or Gotham ends, it might get looser. Until then, I expect them to be very limited in what is allowed in the Flarrowverse for SM & BM stuff.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Now this was a GOOOOOD episode of Supergirl. My fave and imo best of the season. I wish we could get a good inbetween of Kara with attitude and good girl Kara, she would be so much more enjoyable. Though they really should've addressed Supermans absence. And this would be a good opportunity to have more heros come out of the shadow. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I wish we could get a good inbetween of Kara with attitude and good girl Kara, she would be so much more enjoyable.

I agree. Obviously not all the way to mean girl Kara, but I liked the clothes and hair makeover, and I certainly wouldn't mind a bit more attitude. It kind of reminded me of how, back when I watched TVD, I always preferred Katherine to Elena.

Though they really should've addressed Supermans absence.

This continues to be a problem for me. I have to choose to deliberately not think about it, but in episodes like this, it's hard to understand why, when Supergirl is terrorizing the city, Superman doesn't step in to help contain the situation. Of course the answer is that the show doesn't have the rights to use Superman, but from an in-show perspective, it's still a little annoying.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

This continues to be a problem for me. I have to choose to deliberately not think about it, but in episodes like this, it's hard to understand why, when Supergirl is terrorizing the city, Superman doesn't step in to help contain the situation. Of course the answer is that the show doesn't have the rights to use Superman, but from an in-show perspective, it's still a little annoying.

Most of the time they've set it up that he needs to trust her and her allies that they have it covered. In this specific case you have to assume he would call in concerned after seeing the Cat Grant video. And I assume off screen Jimmy told him all about the plan they had to take care of the problem. Same way I assume Kara's sister had to call and reassure mom. That stuff is all just assumed and I'm fine with it. And they did have Hank/J'onn as back up. They really didn't need Supes. They have ways of dealing with whole squads of deranged Kryptonians. It was a problem, but nothing they haven't dealt with.

Oh and yeah, fantastic episode. It was crazy how much Kara suddenly looked like her mother and her aunt.

I was disappointed that some of Kara's awful wardrobe survived.

Edited by BkWurm1
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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I don't watch Supergirl (i'll binge watch later) but I really Don't want them to have to call in superman everytime something happens.. first of all the show is called Supergirl, not Superman. Second of all, as a feminist that ticks me the wrong way- in the sense that it implies that she can't handle it and thus need the big strong man to come to her rescue...

 

I don't recall anyone ever saying the same things when Smallville was on, and Kara was already on the show, anytime Clark was having a problem no one ever asked: oh where is Kara? why doesn't anyone call her over to help/save the day since she's technically older than him, she'll probably know what to do..

 

Nope, superman can stay away. I much prefer it that way.

We finally have a female led superhero show, I would like for her to save the day and not be saved by a man. 

doing that (bringing superman in to the rescue- would, imo, hurt the show.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I stopped watching Supergirl because it was too cheesy for me. I might binge it later. But I also hated people asking why doesn't she just call Superman. The show is called Supergirl, let her handle the tough stuff without a man coming to rescue her. I'd rather we never see him. She has the same powers. It's not like he'll bring something different to the table.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Normally no. Not your run of the mill villains of the week. But when one is dealing with a crazed out-of-control Kryptonian who is hurting people (this was the obligatory Red K episode), why wouldn't you ask for help from the other good Kryptonian on the planet? As it was, J'onn had to take her down because she was about to kill Alex, and had to reveal himself as a Martian in public in order to do so.

I mean, it seems like, in a world without network constraints, Clark would have been in National City the instant he saw Kara throw Cat Grant off her building, because there's no way that didn't make the nation wide news.

However, as someone pointed out over in the episode thread, it wasn't the only problem. The DEO people also seemed to conveniently forget that they have green Kryptonite weapons that they could have used to disable Kara long enough to cure her. But the plot demanded that J'onn be unmasked, therefore their supply of green K had to be temporarily forgotten.

Edited by Starfish35
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tv echo

tv echo

Personally, I think the three shows are different enough that it's like comparing apples and oranges...

 

5 Reasons Legends Of Tomorrow Is Way Worse Than Arrow And The Flash
BY ADRIENNE JONES  2 HOURS AGO
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/5-Reasons-Legends-Tomorrow-Way-Worse-Than-Arrow-Flash-124777.html

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

Well I'm just going to pretend that Superman was diverting a meteor or something in outer space.  I can handwave this stuff away NO problem. :)

 

As far as LoT being "way worse" - yea totally apples and oranges.  Everything depends on what you want out of a show.  If you want good use of women - let's face it, Flash is not your show.  If you want effective use of team dynamics, neither Flash nor Arrow fit the bill. 

 

If you add in Supergirl, all four shows have weaknesses, but in my opinion they are all enjoyable for different reasons.  I admit that Supergirl and LoT are more enjoyable for me right now than Flash or Arrow, but that's probably because they are newer and their weaknesses have had less time to grate on me. 

 

ETA:

 

Ok I skimmed the "way worse" article and geez some people just don't get it, do they?  An ensemble show is NOT supposed to have a LEAD - that is the whole point. Now, you don't have to like that, but it's not a failure of the show.  For me, it's one of the show's strengths.  I know its different, but sometimes different is good.  Do people complain about Agents of Shield not having a clear lead?

 

Anyway, saying Vandal Savage is not a good villain is one thing - saying Flash and Arrow villains are better is problematic.  Flash wins this contest as far as I'm concerned, but they aren't out of the woods yet.  Reverse Flash was a great villain but the jury is out on Zoom as far as I'm concerned.  They have some explaining to do with their Jays.  And as for Arrow, Ra's sucked. Malcolm was a good villain in season one but later treatment of him has been infuriating not entertaining.  Slade was great and so is Darkh but I've decided that was luck with actors more than anything else.  Since LoT is only in season one - they have time to improve on the villain front.

 

So, Flash needs a "pep talk" every single week and Oliver never learns lying to his loved ones is bad - BUT LoT expositioning about traveling through time is a problem for you? Well okay then.

 

And finally - I guess I have to just disagree that LoT isn't using their ensemble well because I think they are knocking it out of the ballpark.  It's the true strength of the show.  And when you compare notes - you have Arrow with Oliver, Thea, Laurel, and Diggle in the field and not being used well.  In fact, they are being used so poorly that even my 14 year old was like "How can Oliver still move like that at 55+ when he can barely fight like he used to on Arrow?" after seeing the LoT episode in 2046.  And I don't think I even need to get into Flash and how they use their cast - which will probably only get worse if/when Wally acquires powers. 

 

Okay I know all of that was not needed and I'm totally 100% bias because I love LoT and want it to succeed - but when you say one show is "way worse" than two others in the same universe, use better arguments lol. :)

Edited by nksarmi
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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

Should I start watching Supergirl now or wait till the summer/it get's renewed to binge watch?

 

I hope you watch it but a little warning - the way this show is handling relationships might make you pissed that Arrow can't do it that well.  And I mean all relationships, from unrequited crushes to family to "blood" doesn't come first, etc...  I'm serious. To date, every single relationship beat has been satisfying for me.  It really makes you wonder why one show can get it so right when another doesn't if they all come from the same producers.

Edited by nksarmi
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Those are the same complaints I see all the time and those are the same things I care very little about. Its all about what you like. I watch LoT for the characters. The plot can do whatever it wants as long the characters are interesting to me. I ignore the plot holes because I enjoy watching them interact.

Edited by Sakura12
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Starfish35

Starfish35

5 Reasons Legends Of Tomorrow Is Way Worse Than Arrow And The Flash

BY ADRIENNE JONES  2 HOURS AGO

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/5-Reasons-Legends-Tomorrow-Way-Worse-Than-Arrow-Flash-124777.html

I think the article has a few good points. LoT does have issues. I'm enjoying the show, but they really do need to work on some things. However, saying the show is "way worse" is ignoring the problems of Flash and Arrow. I wish the media would stop giving The Flash, in particular, a pass on everything.

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Arrow's my favorite but LOT way worse than the Flash? Not to me. I can barely watch the Flash. I care about Barry but really that might be because of his crossover relationship with Olicity. I do think The legends need a better leader if they want to beat Savage but that's part of the show's dynamic. Rip is both too emotional but too trained in the time masters rules for altering time. And they don't know a lot about Savage in time. Savage stays hidden for most of history (Hmm reading that word hidden just now makes me wonder if Malcolm's Comic Cult will be connected to Savage?). Seems the only known timeline hits for Savage is when the legends intersect with him.

 

It's the characters interacting with each other and time periods that I love. While I do enjoy watching Rip a part of me wishes the show was more Sara as well as Snart (with a bit of Mick) and I do hope season 2 has Sara and Snart more connected to the season plot. 

Edited by tarotx
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Supergirl got a 1.3 last night. Unless it's adjusted up, that's a new series low.

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/the-sked-monday-ratings-3-14-2016.html

ETA: It's also the first episode after Daylight Savings Time, which might or might not have had an impact.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/03/04/fear-the-sun-what-will-daylight-saving-time-do-to-your-favorite-shows-ratings-4/

Edited by Starfish35
Sakura12

Sakura12

I really don't understand all the love the Flash gets. It's not that great of a show, especially this season. It's definitely not a show that treats the female characters well.

I guess if you like watching a show about male bonding and manpain then the Flash is the show for you.

  • Love 7
FurryFury

FurryFury

Flash is basically great for dudebros and comic book nerds, who are a pretty vocal audience (they also all seem to hate Supergirl). I don't really care about their opinion.

 

Supergirl had the best episode yet, MB was fantastic as EvilKara. Were she like that all the time, I'd probably be a huge fan of the show. As it is, the previous episode was so bad I was on the verge of quitting. This one revitalized by interest, but I still hope they'll understand their failures and focus more on DEO next season (unless they won't get one), because holy hell, are James and Winn useless (Cat can stay). The Kara/Alex/Hank dynamic is starting to really gel. 

 

LOT has a lot of problems, but I still enjoy it way more than Flash or Arrow. But I hope it gets better, because some of the plot holes and stuff starts to bug me. Still, as long as Sara's there, being her badass self, I'll watch.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

Ok I get that Legends has plot holes - I do.  But they don't bother me because it's a show about time travel mixed with space adventure.  I mean whatever, the characters are fun, the actors aren't dialing in their performances, and most importantly - I can understand where each of the characters is coming from.  And they've already shown several of the characters growing and developing in just a hand full of episodes.

 

Some characters on Arrow and Flash haven't been that fleshed out or developed in multiple seasons!

 

But aside from that, Flash has plot holes big enough to drive a truck through and Arrow has entire people operate as plot devices instead of real, fleshed out characters.  More so, while Legends is playing with sci-fi subjects like time travel - Flash actually gets real science wrong.  So whatever.

 

I think the thing I like the most about Legends is it doesn't moralize as much as Flash and Arrow does and thus isn't hypocritical in the process.  Oh and every single characters gets called out when they do something wrong or cross a line - like there are no exceptions.  That is so refreshing.

 

On Flash, Barry can be selfish and go back in time to try to save his mother from death while knowing his risking massive destruction and it's ok. Oh yea and in the process of dealing with that calamity, he opened pathways between multiple Earths, bringing an even bigger villain to his city and he gets pep talks galore.  Then he goes to Earth 2 to save Harry's daughter and goes off the rails, getting Earth 2 Joe killed and gets to yell at Harry about how he needs to be there for Earth 2 Iris instead of letting Earth 2 Barry handle that - because family is everything.  Yea, I like Barry - I do - but he's immature and selfish as anything and he never gets called out. 

 

I'll take my selfish heroes on Legends who admit they have selfish motivations but are still trying to do something good any day over that.

 

 

Edited by nksarmi
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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

lmao I think nksarmi has an issue with her account because she always posts her responses before finishing said response :p

 

I do - I swear my account just freezes sometimes so I have to post and then edit - it sucks!

Edited by nksarmi
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