Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[bijoux]

I'm not going to say it's impossible because I'm afraid they'd prove me wrong.

[kismet]

Never underestimate the power of these writers & TPTB to find new levels of dumb and lame :)

[Delphi]

That picture of Oliver though, rofl.

[bijoux]

What picture of Oliver?

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Not sure why everyone in here thinks those pics are from the FP storyline. From what I've read, FP is the premiere only, and after that there's just "effects" of FP on the restored timeline. Which I'm guessing means small changes, but not fundamental ones.

So I'm pretty sure this is Barry and Iris in the real timeline and they're finally putting them together.

I don't doubt they're putting them together. I just don't think they'll stay that way for long. 

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Not sure why everyone in here thinks those pics are from the FP storyline. From what I've read, FP is the premiere only, and after that there's just "effects" of FP on the restored timeline. Which I'm guessing means small changes, but not fundamental ones.

So I'm pretty sure this is Barry and Iris in the real timeline and they're finally putting them together.

I think they've been very cagey with their answers.  They say it won't last the whole season but never really said how long it will last (that I'm aware of). Flashpoint AU being 301 only and the rest of the season is Flash/Arrow suffering after effects of Barry resetting the universe makes the most sense but, who knows what they're going to do?

[tv echo]

I'm not aware of any spoilers revealing exactly how many episodes the Flashpoint AU will last.  Grant Gustin only said that it won't last all season long and that there will be permanent ramifications.

ETA: From a SDCC Flash panel live blog...
http://comicbook.com/2016/07/23/sdcc-2016-the-flash-panel-liveblog/

Quote

"I think when we find him, he's still living in blind bliss and ignoring or unaware of changes that are out there," says Grant Gustin of Barry. He still knows that the conversation with Iris on the porch at the end of Season 2 still happened. He thinks he'll be able to convince her to fall in love with him again. "When we find him, he's been living in this timeline for three months."

"I'll just say that I think in any timeline, Barry and Iris ultimately find each other," says Todd Helbing.

And here's one media article interpreting Barry's courting of Iris as still taking place in the Flashpoint AU (I don't know if they're right or wrong)...
http://www.enstarz.com/articles/168989/20160804/the-flash-season-3-barry-makes-a-play-for-westallen-check-out-new-set-photos-with-grant-gustin-candice-patton-video.htm 

Quote

The Flash's Barry Allen is determined to win Iris' heart, no matter what timeline he's stuck in.

In a scene that looked like it was pulled straight from the pages of a classic comic book, the season 2 finale gave WestAllen 'shippers exactly what they've been waiting for - a promise that the childhood pals will cast their platonic shackles aside in the near future. Now that Iris (Candice Patton) doesn't remember that timeline, however, Barry (Grant Gustin) is back to square one.

"He knows that that conversation from the season 2 finale on the porch with Iris still happened, as far as he remembers," Gustin said at San Diego Comic-Con. "He remembers that happening, so I think he plan is like, 'I'm just going to find her and it's going to work out.' You know, good old Barry logic."

Edited August 5, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I think it's possible that this kiss is part of the current  post-FP timeline since 

Spoiler

They filmed a scene with Candice and Grant on the front porch of the West home, which seems like the place he'd logically return to after he tried to clean up his idiotic mess. 

[apinknightmare]

I was just thinking though, I wonder if he's going to have to do a couple of "resets" before he gets to a timeline that's satisfactorily close to the one he left? It would suck for WestAllen shippers if this is a timeline where Barry and Iris are together, but something else still isn't right, and he decides to give that up to fix the other thing. Or something. 

[Delphi]

36 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What picture of Oliver?

 

From the ew article.   Not flattering at all.   In other news,  I finally figured out how to embed images. 

[bijoux]

It's the damn hood. He looks like Charlie Harper under it. 

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't doubt they're putting them together. I just don't think they'll stay that way for long. 

I'm not sure about that at all. This is a canon couple that was known for being permanently married. I think the show is going to want to portray that, and they know that Flash fans are expecting to see that. Plus, it's sort of necessary in order to bring in future Flash descendants like Bart Allen, and I know they're going to do that at some point.

Edited August 5, 2016 by ruby24

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I'm not sure about that at all. This is a canon couple that was known for being permanently married. I think the show is going to want to portray that, and that Flash fans are expecting to see that.

I don't think this board thinks much of the "canon" argument :p

In the end Flash is a show that will probably go on for 5-8 seasons. They're not going to bring them together in season 3 and leave them together for the next 2-5 years because this is a comic book show after all -- which tends to be more soap opera-y. 

I'll be pleasantly surprised if they don't break them up in the future. But for now, I kind of understand why people are skeptical regardless of comic canon.

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I'm not sure about that at all. This is a canon couple that was known for being permanently married. I think the show is going to want to portray that, and they know that Flash fans are expecting to see that. Plus, it's sort of necessary in order to bring in future Flash descendants like Bart Allen, and I know they're going to do that at some point.

Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be a nice change of pace for a show to completely do away with the will they/won't they. And if they were going to let anyone have their heart's desire right away, it would be special snowflake Barry. I just think anyone expecting anything is setting themselves up for disappointment. 

Edited August 5, 2016 by apinknightmare

[ruby24]

I know you guys don't like the "canon" argument in here, but I think there's evidence that canon faithfulness is more important to The Flash than it is to Arrow. That's all I'm saying. As far as staying true to the spirit of the comics anyway.

I also don't think he's gotten his heart's desire "right away," it's been two whole seasons. And even in those seasons, it's been obvious they were just trying to delay it and that felt contrived enough.

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I know you guys don't like the "canon" argument in here, but I think there's evidence that canon faithfulness is more important to The Flash than it is to Arrow. That's all I'm saying. As far as staying true to the spirit of the comics anyway.

I also don't think he's gotten his heart's desire "right away," it's been two whole seasons. And even in those seasons, it's been obvious they were just trying to delay it and that felt contrived enough.

Understandable. I don't think anyone should expect anything though because that will just lead to disappointment imo because comics/tv shows are completely different animals therefore they'll both be treated differently.

Edited August 5, 2016 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I know you guys don't like the "canon" argument in here, but I think there's evidence that canon faithfulness is more important to The Flash than it is to Arrow. That's all I'm saying. As far as staying true to the spirit of the comics anyway.

I also don't think he's gotten his heart's desire "right away," it's been two whole seasons. And even in those seasons, it's been obvious they were just trying to delay it and that felt contrived enough.

They also don't have any reason to NOT go with canon - since there aren't chemistry and backstory issues like there were with Oliver and Laurel - I'm pretty sure Arrow wanted to and would've stuck with canon if the couple had been more well received by the audience. Barry and Iris don't really have that problem for the most part. And Barry and Iris getting together at the beginning of the third season for good? In TV land? That's Barry getting his heart's desire right away. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Delphi said:

 

From the ew article.   Not flattering at all.   In other news,  I finally figured out how to embed images. 

That's a HORRIBLE picture. What the hell?

[dtissagirl]

The CW being a network that really really likes couples to break up during Sweeps trumps comic canon.

Then, after trumping it, the CW stomps on comic canon, then points and laugh at comic canon.

[Angel12d]

I think it's obvious that Flash is all about WestAllen and always will be. That's their main couple and yes, it's comic canon. But this is also a show on the CW and we all know that they'd never allow a couple to be happy for long. So you're gonna get WA, and you'll probably see them happy for a while. But they will break up because this is TV and Flash is only in its third season. They'll get back together though because, again, this is TV and Flash is only in its third season.

[kismet]

Spoiler

 

 

 

Ignore the box.

I dont doubt that WestAllen will get together this season.

Just like I dont doubt the show will break them up by the end of the season.

If Olicity couldnt make It thru a full season of happiness, I doubt WestAllen will. CANON or not CW melodrama trumps all when It comes to showrunning. No show IS Immune to IT until ITs final season.

[Lord Kira]

DC's Legends of Tomorrow is being rebuilt 'piece by piece' for season 2

Quote

Following the success of "Arrow" and "The Flash," fans were clamoring to see more of their favorite DC Comics heroes on television, and The CW was eager to oblige. But, executive producers Phil Klemmer and Marc Guggenheim acknowledged in a series of roundtable interviews at Comic-Con International in San Diego, the rush to create an expansive new superhero show led to some significant challenges during the first season of "Legends of Tomorrow." Now on firmer footing, the producers spoke with CBR and other members of the press about the Legends' new mission, new faces and new focus for Season 2.

The producers were quick to take responsibility for the unevenness of "Legends," noting that the series' unorthodox beginnings created problems throughout the first season. "I guess the biggest lesson is, before you break a first episode, it's really important that you take a step back and think about the ramifications of everything," Klemmer said. "Because we didn't do a pilot, it was like stepping on a moving train, and we didn't know where it was headed. You can change the speed of that train, conceivably you can have people run up ahead and try to move the tracks a little bit, but it's not easy to do. It's much easier to do at the incubation stage.

"We really took our hiatus this year and took the show apart, and rebuilt it piece by piece. We're much more deliberate, just thinking about where is this going to take us," Klemmer continued. "A lot of the story of Season 1 felt like they were compulsory because we put certain story elements into motion. You killed Rip's family, you've got to avenge that. We said that Vandal Savage is going to ruin the world, we've got to stop that. Oh, we revealed who our bad guy is, that doesn't leave much room for mystery. "

Guggenheim agreed that launching off of a crossover series like "Legends" without a pilot meant "we didn't get to take the time to figure things out." "The learning curve was… it wasn't a curve, it was a straight line up," he said. "So in Season 2, we've used the destruction of the Oculus and the Time Masters in episode 15 as a kicking off point for a brand new raison d'etre for the show and for the team. Now, they're more like time cops. They've got to do the job of the Time Masters. The Time Masters are no longer a going concern, so the Legends have appointed themselves the job of making sure history is protected from time pirates. It just allows for a lot more fun."

"In Season 2, we're realizing we can take it slow, not showing all our cards, letting our story unfold incrementally and really indulging the mystery, and letting our villain or evil forces develop organically alongside our guys, and giving them more room to just be themselves," Klemmer added. "Because we put such a responsibility on them saving the world, you kind of hated them if they weren't staying on task. But frankly, the fun of the Legends is when they're not on task. You want them grab-assing, you want them stabbing each other in the back in a fun way, you want them irresponsible. Allowing them to be the time police and allowing them to screw up, I think it's going to be lighter -- not in a frivolous way, but light in a way that allows us to explore character more than we did last year."

Asked whether the "Flashpoint" storyline in "The Flash" would affect "Legends," Guggenheim said it was unlikely, at least in the short term. "Can you imagine, it's already complicated with our own characters changing time, and now Barry changed time, too?" he said. "At a point when we're trying to relaunch the show, to also have to deal with another show's plotline, I think it would just collapse under its own weight. You're going to get a connection with 'Flash' later on in the season, but it will be different than, 'We start off Season 2 and everything's different because of Flashpoint.'"

Klemmer said the Justice Society, while not appearing in every episode, will be "integral to the season-long mystery," describing the Golden Age heroes as "the antithesis of the Legends." "We always said that 'Legends' is a story about a dysfunctional family, and the way we highlight that dysfunction is to have them meet the idealized version of themselves," the producer said. "If I had to go back and join the Greatest Generation and fight at Normandy? I was just complaining about my sandwich! It had mayonnaise on it, I didn't want mayonnaise, boo hoo. But the guys who fought at Normandy, they were getting off this vehicle and getting shot on. So our Legends are like me, Millennial babies with their own baggage and dysfunction, and all of a sudden they're next to these Golden Age heroes who are the prototypical superheroes, and it reminds them of their own deficiencies for some of our characters. For other characters, it's like, 'Fuck you, guys. What's the point of having powers if you don't get to indulge them and use them selfishly?' It's a generational culture clash that we just thought would be fun. If you're doing time travel, put them face to face with an earlier era's version of themselves."

Guggenheim spoke more about the new faces joining the Legends line up, noting that it was important to consider who they're replacing on the team. "You've got Captain Cold, who was a criminal and out for himself. He's replaced by Vixen, who is the definition of a superhero," he said. "She's a member of the Justice Society of America, she's from the 1940s, everything is prim and proper -- not stuck up, but she does things right. You have this team that doesn't do things right, they're a bunch of fuck-ups. So she's interesting counterpoint. Then with Nick Zano's character, Nate Heywood, we're doing something we didn't have a chance to do last year, which was introduce a character who doesn't have superpowers, who could develop superpowers and tell a secret origin story in the body of this team of superhero. Besides which, the character is a historian, which is a helpful thing to have on a time travel show."

I gotta be honest, I'm really liking how Legends season 2 seems to be shaping up. The fact that the showrunners outright admit they made mistakes gives me hope that they will do better.

Its good that they acknowledge that the character interactions are this shows selling point instead of the mission. The mission being the pathetic interpretation of Vandal Savage did the show no favors.

I also like that the team being a bunch of fuck-ups is now very much intentional. I would have been pissed if the writers acted like they were the greatest heroes ever. It should be amusing to see how the professional hero Vixen interacts with them.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Lord Kira

[Trini]

16 minutes ago, kismet said:

Just like I dont doubt the show will break them up by the end of the season.

If Olicity couldnt make It thru a full season of happiness, I doubt WestAllen will. CANON or not CW melodrama trumps all when It comes to showrunning. No show IS Immune to IT until ITs final season.

It is a CW show, so I agree that there will be the required amount of drama with the Barry/Iris relationship. However, I'm more hopeful about them being together more than not because the Flash showrunners seem to take a different approach to their show than the Arrow showrunners.

[apinknightmare]

The Flash show runners are equally as hacky IMO, it just doesn't get called out like it does on Arrow, because the idiocy can easily be explained away by weird science that no one can actually follow, or time travel shenanigans. Their relationship writing is somewhat better than Arrow's simply because they don't (or - they haven't yet) rely on dramatics to get the story going. It's tough to really judge though, because Barry and Iris don't have the sordid backstory like Oliver and Laurel did - and Oliver and Felicity were ridiculous drama-free until they actually got together. Barry and Iris are just reaching that point - so I guess we'll see. 

Edited August 6, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Thundercatmary]

I only casually follow Flash but honestly I see very little chemistry between Barry and Iris especially compared to Oliver and Felicity.

[Lord Kira]

Supergirl Cast & EP promise a more 'vibrant' show

Quote

"Supergirl's" flight from CBS to the CW was announced back in May, and now production is underway on the show's second season -- its first for its new network. But the jump from CBS to the CW places the show in closer proximity to the other DC superhero shows ("Arrow," "The Flash," "Legends of Tomorrow") and, as the cast revealed, it will have an effect on the feel of the show as well.

During a press event at Comic-Con International in San Diego, the "Supergirl" cast gave their take on their show's network switch and how the move will affect the season.

"I think it's the perfect move," said "Supergirl" lead Melissa Benoist. "It feels like we're in an amazing company. It feels like we're where we should have been all along."

Executive producer Sarah Schechter thanked CBS for "launching the show, and also for nurturing it and allowing us to do that first season and we're really proud of that."

With the change in networks also comes a change in demographic, though not necessarily in tone, explained Benoist. "Obviously I think we have a different demographic now and the first three scripts I've read already feel more vibrant and exciting and rich -- but I don't think the tone will change so much," said Benoist. "It's still the same characters and the same themes."

"Yeah, already with the scripts it feels younger," said Mehcad Brooks, who plays James Olsen. "It feels younger, it feels more vibrant. It's not a dig at CBS obviously, but they have -- it's like playing for the Patriots and then getting traded to the Giants. You have an opportunity to be a champion at either one, but they run different offenses. CBS, it's a more conservative demographic, it's an older demographic. We were kinda catering to that in a way that we didn't really know how, I think. And CBS, I'm not sure if we really fit into their wheelhouse. But like, the CW, it's perfect. The scripts already, it feels younger, it feels more like us."

One noticeable change brought about by the network switch, though, is the possible presence of more Martian Manhunter. David Harewood, who plays Hank Henshaw/Martian Manhunter, said his superhero side might get more screentime now that they're on the CW.

"I think maybe CBS -- I don't think it's their natural fit, and I think they were trying to do less of the alien superhero stuff, whereas on CW they want more of it," said Harewood.

Schechter echoed this statement, saying that the producers have a shorthand with the CW when it comes to this kind of thing. "We're really excited to make season two even better and we're on a network that we already have a shorthand with because we've done so many shows -- 'Arrow's' going into its fifth season," said Schechter. "So when you say 'metahuman' to someone at the CW, they know what you mean. I think it'll just be a lot of fun."

"Supergirl" debuts on the CW on Monday, October 10.
 

To be honest, I've only seen 2 episodes of Supergirl (though my little sister and my father both watch it so I've seen parts of more episodes). I saw the pilot which didn't sell me on the show, and the crossover with the Flash. IMO, the Flash and his interaction with Kara was the only worthwhile thing about the episode (along with Cat's ideas for naming the Flash). Everything else bored me to tears. The Kara/James stuff was terrible, the villains were cheesy in a bad way, and Supergirl and the Flash had to be saved by firemen and and a bunch of civilians. It made me grateful that the Flash was only on that one episode.

The move to the CW changed things for me. I knew there would be crossovers with Supergirl and the other shows so I was already planning to tune in for those, but they also announced a lot of cool things for Supergirl season 2 such as the addition of Superman, Maggie Sawyer, Lena Luthor, etc. So my hype was getting raised, but I was still scared they would manage to make it all boring.

This news about the changes they'd be able to make on the CW gives me hope. More comic book characters, sci-fi/aliens/superheroes, etc are all great. But not having to appease the "CBS old-timer" demographic as well should make this show's quality rise quite a bit.

I'm actually looking forward to this show now. But I'm someone who was not a fan of what I saw in season 1. What do those of you that liked season 1 think of the changes that are being done to the show now that its on the CW?

Edited August 6, 2016 by Lord Kira

[Angel12d]

I thought Supergirl was okay. It was nothing special? I think they did get the sibling relationship right with Kara and Alex and I also liked their growing closeness with Hank but I found the show in general pretty cheesy most of the time, and they focused on romance way too soon. The villains weren't great either.

I liked Cat Grant so I'm not sure I'll really enjoy seeing less of her tbh. And I'm not really impressed that they're bringing in Superman on a show that's about Supergirl. I worry that he'll steal her focus. 

Editing to add that I'll probably watch the first few episodes and see how it goes. But the first season didn't really inspire me to watch the next one.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Angel12d

[Lord Kira]

Its the other way around for me. I think you need to actually see Superman on this show at least a few times. They can't keep doing the offscreen relationship Kara supposedly has with him forever. Fans would revolt. You need to see the characters actually interact to get invested in their relationship. You can't just say they have a good relationship, not show it, and expect viewers to automatically care. Besides, seeing Supergirl have to deal with being in Superman's shadow and being her own kind of hero would be for more meaningful if we actually saw Superman.

I don't think Superman will steal her focus. I don't think he'll be suited up for most of his appearances on the show, if only for budget reasons. I think we'll see more of Clark Kent throughout the season to be honest. Maybe we'll see him suited up around the season finale probably getting taken out of commission or serving as a distraction freeing up Kara to save the day. It is her show after all.

I wouldn't mind seeing Superman guest-star on The Flash or Legends of Tomorrow though.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Lord Kira

[Angel12d]

I'm fine with seeing Superman occasionally. I would just rather they kept his appearance to minimum. 

[ruby24]

I still think depending on how Superman is received that the CW would jump at the chance to have a Superman show next season. We'll see what happens, but I think that's a real possibility (I could even see it happening at the expense of Legends, if that one doesn't shape up successfully enough).

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Ignore the box.

I dont doubt that WestAllen will get together this season.

Just like I dont doubt the show will break them up by the end of the season.

If Olicity couldnt make It thru a full season of happiness, I doubt WestAllen will. CANON or not CW melodrama trumps all when It comes to showrunning. No show IS Immune to IT until ITs final season.

We'll see. I'm betting it's more likely they're engaged by the end of the season than broken up. You guys may think I'm crazy, but I really believe we're going to see them being married ON the show, not just in the series finale, given what this particular couple is known for in the comics.

Edited August 6, 2016 by ruby24

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, ruby24 said:

I still think depending on how Superman is received that the CW would jump at the chance to have a Superman show next season. We'll see what happens, but I think that's a real possibility (I could even see it happening at the expense of Legends, if that one doesn't shape up successfully enough).

I'm convinced  (no proof) that CW only picked Supergirl up because Superman and probably Lex Luthor (eventually) will tossed into the deal for free.

Depending on how Tyler Hochlin works out this season I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have Superman actually take over Supergirl's show. I don't know if they'd actually go for another show for just Superman

Quote

 don't think Superman will steal her focus. I don't think he'll be suited up for most of his appearances on the show, if only for budget reasons. I think we'll see more of Clark Kent throughout the season to be honest. Maybe we'll see him suited up around the season finale probably getting taken out of commission or serving as a distraction freeing up Kara to save the day. It is her show after all.

Spoiler

he's already suited up in the first episode he appears in.

This isn't, IMO a supporting character, setup. There's a very real possibility that Superman will over shadow Supergirl on her own show. Not that i care i hate Superman and have zero interest in the whole Super Family. But i wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have TH added as a regular in S2 or S3 and have the show become The Adventures of Superman and Supergirl  (even if not in name)

[Lord Kira]

11 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I still think depending on how Superman is received that the CW would jump at the chance to have a Superman show next season. We'll see what happens, but I think that's a real possibility (I could even see it happening at the expense of Legends, if that one doesn't shape up successfully enough).

I think Legends will do decent enough this year. I think the big crossover will help it the way The Flash helped Arrow season 3 in the ratings.

But I'm not sure CW would give Superman his own show regardless. They don't want all superhero shows on the network for one, and it could possibly be to similar to Supergirl for another. It would need to differentiate itself somehow.

[Lord Kira]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm convinced  (no proof) that CW only picked Supergirl up because Superman and probably Lex Luthor (eventually) will tossed into the deal for free.

Depending on how Tyler Hochlin works out this season I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have Superman actually take over Supergirl's show. I don't know if they'd actually go for another show for just Superman

  Reveal hidden contents

he's already suited up in the first episode he appears in.

This isn't, IMO a supporting character, setup. There's a very real possibility that Superman will over shadow Supergirl on her own show. Not that i care i hate Superman and have zero interest in the whole Super Family. But i wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have TH added as a regular in S2 or S3 and have the show become The Adventures of Superman and Supergirl  (even if not in name)

I heard when Supergirl was on CBS they had to pay WB for every mention of 'Superman' 'Luthor' and other such words, and would have to pay more for actually using the characters. Since WB co-owns the CW now Supergirl can use all of that without paying all that extra cash.

They will not have Superman overtake Kara on her own show. The PR would be disastrous. Not to mention the special effects budget. What they will do if this incarnation is hugely popular is give him lots of guest appearances on Legends/Flash/Arrow and if he is still loved after that.... that's when I think they might give him his own show regardless of having so many superhero shows on the channel, and regardless of similarities with Supergirl's own show.

I think WB is desperate for Superman to be loved again after the disastrous response to what they did to him in the movies.  They tarnished the brand and want to fix it, which is the only reason I think they are allowing him to appear at all. He used to be embargoed along with Batman. Suddenly after his movies get bad reception he's allowed to appear on the well-received shows. 

[ruby24]

I'm not convinced they wouldn't want five nights of superhero shows, to be honest. They seem to embracing the whole idea.

And I actually don't think a Superman and Supergirl show would be too similar to exist at the same time, I could see it happening. Metropolis is a different enough place, and the character comes with such a huge built-in fanbase, obviously.

[Lord Kira]

12 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I'm not convinced they wouldn't want five nights of superhero shows, to be honest. They seem to embracing the whole idea.

And I actually don't think a Superman and Supergirl show would be too similar to exist at the same time, I could see it happening. Metropolis is a different enough place, and the character comes with such a huge built-in fanbase, obviously.

I heard Supergirl used some of Superman's villains already in season 1 and they are already using some of his suporting cast: Jimmy, Cat, Maggie, etc. And I heard a rumor that Kara herselft may be becoming

Spoiler

a reporter

in season 2. That's why I thought they may be too similar. But hey, if the rating for his appearances are huge a spin-off immediately becomes on the table, regardless of any other factors.

If they did do a Superman spin-off, do you think they'd move Arrow or Legends to Fridays? Or just move a show to 9 pm.? There's no way in hell The Flash or Supergirl would be moved to Fridays.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Lord Kira

[ruby24]

I think Legends would be the most expendable of this lineup.

[Lord Kira]

I agree. But it may get a huge ratings bump due the crossover. I remember Arrow season 3 having so-so ratings before the Flash crossover and then viewership steadied at a good spot.

Maybe they'd move Arrow to Fridays considering how old its getting and the contract year is coming up soon. 

Or they could move Arrow to 9. Of all the shows, Arrow is dark enough to justify a 9:00 timeslot.

Edit: I also remember the rumors a few weeks back that CW might give Constantine a season 2 to fill the Fridays at 8 slot, but I don't put much stock into that. 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Lord Kira

[way2interested]

19 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

We'll see. I'm betting it's more likely they're engaged by the end of the season than broken up. You guys may think I'm crazy, but I really believe we're going to see them being married ON the show, not just in the series finale, given what this particular couple is known for in the comics.

The idea of Barry being engaged in general just caused me to flinch a little, no offense. I don't think it would be crazy to have them remain a couple on the show, but they still have to break-up at least once before the long-run because that's how tv works. Barry and Iris haven't even really been in a romantic relationship at all at this point, so given FP and post-FP, they'll actually have to work back to getting together in the first place. Come a later season, 4 or 5 maybe, then possibly a permanent relationship, even though the show would have to go further for me to get me to believe that Iris and Barry would ever go further than boyfriend-girlfriend in the span of less than a year. They may love each other, but neither of them really showed any intention/inclination towards spending their lives together other than the destiny jabs with future WestAllen and E2 WestAllen being married.

Honestly, I think it would be more likely that Oliver and Felicity would be together/re-engaged by the end of the season, and even that might be pushing it depending on how either of those seasons go. Even GB made comments about the idea of doing a married superhero with regards to Arrow, so I kind of think they would try the long-term relationship with them first before WestAllen, especially when it looks like Olicity gets more buzz than WestAllen and they have an extra 2 years on them. 

[tarotx]

If anything I think it's more likely to have Superman a part of Legends. They don't have to do an origin story with him and they can even spin that his powers are affected with the different times and even a potential space travel. 

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Lord Kira said:

I agree. But it may get a huge ratings bump due the crossover. I remember Arrow season 3 having so-so ratings before the Flash crossover and then viewership steadied at a good spot.

Maybe they'd move Arrow to Fridays considering how old its getting and the contract year is coming up soon. 

Or they could move Arrow to 9. Of all the shows, Arrow is dark enough to justify a 9:00 timeslot.

Edit: I also remember the rumors a few weeks back that CW might give Constantine a season 2 to fill the Fridays at 8 slot, but I don't put much stock into that. 

I don't necessarily think that LoT will experience a similar bump that Arrow did though. Arrow is slightly more high concept than LoT is, allowing for an easier pick-up for a general audience, while LoT focuses on several characters at once with some of them originating and developing from two other shows that a person may not have watched. To me, LoT is a harder sell to someone to start casually watching after the cross-over, even if it's going to bigger (and hypothetically better) than 208/408. It might get a small bump for the rest of the season, but that might only reach Arrow ratings instead of remaining slightly below Arrow as the latter half of the season leveled to.

But, if we're talking hypothetically, then I would still think that they would move LoT to Friday both because it has the lowest ratings and because it would let the week kind of be the lead up to the team-up show on Friday. Although I can picture them moving Arrow to 9 in general eventually once it gets towards Supernatural/Smallville-ish length and drops ratings average by .3-.4.

[quarks]

23 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

We'll see. I'm betting it's more likely they're engaged by the end of the season than broken up. You guys may think I'm crazy, but I really believe we're going to see them being married ON the show, not just in the series finale, given what this particular couple is known for in the comics.

They might well very end up married on Flash, but given that MG just said they now expect Arrow to go for at least six or seven seasons, and delayed Oliver/Felicity once they realized that was happening, it seems likely that Flash, the more popular show, will go at least as long, if not longer, and will have similar reasons for delaying Barry/Iris. So I don't think a Barry/Iris marriage is likely anytime soon - I mean, Flash just had Barry reset time instead of saying, "Iris? You're finally interested in me? And we're KISSING? Let's go get a pizza!"  Talk about going out of your way to setup a roadblock between your characters. And I thought the Oliver/Felicity breakup was contrived. 

Regarding the comics canon argument, my issue isn't just that all four shows, including Flash, have frequently ignored or completely changed comics canon, but with the canon:

Iris West was introduced in 1956.  

She and Barry Allen married in 1966 - ten years later. 

Iris West then died in 1979 - after about 13 years of marriage.

This was somewhat retconned in 1985, when the comics revealed that - tada! - Iris was still alive, but living in the 30th century. The very next year, however, Barry Allen "died," replaced as Flash by Wally West. The live action Flash show in the early 1990s did introduce Iris West in its first episode, but she was almost immediately replaced as Barry Allen's love interest by Tina McGee.

Barry Allen - and the Barry Allen/Iris West marriage - then pretty much vanished from the comics until 2008, when Barry returned. She and Barry were not fully reunited until 2009.  Less than two years later, DC rebooted all of their comics in the New 52, erasing the Barry Allen/Iris West marriage again. They are not married in current DC comics continuity.  

Which is to say, this well known, comics canon marriage? Is also something that, with one brief exception seven/eight years ago, has barely been shown in comics since the 1970s - that is, before the majority of the CW's under 40 target audience for Flash was even born.  

[ruby24]

But they were introduced as already engaged in 1956, so that's 13 years of marriage added to 10 years of engagement. That's a couple that ran for 23 years straight as being together, and not in an on/off way. That's why their marriage/relationship is iconic in Flash canon. And after Barry finds out she's alive he immediately returns to her and yes, they eventually become separated again, but she also ends up having their children. And their separations never came from them breaking up. That never happened, they stayed married (unlike any other major comics couple I can think of, except perhaps Adam and Alanna Strange, who aren't nearly as well known).

New 52 wanted no permanent relationships, so they erased them having gotten together at all. But that was the first time in Flash history that they were not a couple (at least without one of them thinking the other was dead, so they were essentially widowed). And obviously if you read the comics now, you know they're moving them back together and changing it so that their history was "stolen" from them, but that's another story.

I think you're selling it a little short, that's all. For Flash fans, their marriage and history is definitely a known thing.

[quarks]

3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

That never happened, they stayed married (unlike any other major comics couple I can think of, except perhaps Adam and Alanna Strange, who aren't nearly as well known).

 

Reed and Sue Richards of Fantasic Four, introduced in 1961, married in Fantastic Four Annual 1963, still married, even with Sue taking off briefly during the Marvel Civil War events.

Ralph and Sue Dibny (Elongated Man/his wife), introduced in 1961, married in 1962, and specifically noted for being DC's only happily married couple, turned into ghost detectives post Identity Crisis, but still married, currently married in the New 52.  (I will grant that they're a lot less known than any of the various Flashes.)

Others with long running marriages include Peter Parker/Mary Jane Watson (married 1987, stayed married until 2007), Shiera Saunders Hall (original Hawkgril) and Carter Hall (parents of Hector Hall/Doctor Fate, married from the 1940s until the 1980s when DC realized "Yeah, their story is too confusing, so LET'S MAKE IT MORE CONFUSING), Hector Hall/Lyta Trevor (both, incidentally, children of iconic superhero couples - Hawkman/Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman/Steve Trevor), Bruce Banner/Betty Ross (married 1986, stayed married until 1998, when Betty was placed in a coma, later to become Red Hulk), Hawkeye/Mockingbird (married since 1985 except for the times when Hawkeye thought Mockingbird was "dead"; notably, both characters have been placed with other love interests in the MCU).

....look, I could go on. My point is, that many supercouples have been married, for the same period of time, if not longer, and married in the comics more recently, and/or are better known.  Barry and Iris are not that unusual, or even all that happy in the comics, for that matter - their 1970s marriage was full of angst, and Iris "died" believing that Barry was cheating on her. 

Then there's how the Arrowverse shows have so far handled the comic canon pairings, which is to say, not well.  So far, the Arrowverse shows have mostly given us non comic pairings - Oliver/Felicity, Roy/Thea, Kara/Jimmy, Captain Cold/Sara, Diggle/Lyla Michaels (who is Harbinger in the comics), Nyssa/Sara, Iris/Eddie, and, more briefly, Atom with Felicity Smoak/Hawkgirl. The few canon comics pairings have either been sent off the show or partly killed off (the Hawks, Killer Frost/Firestorm, Barry/Patty), usually right after the couple officially got together, or were Green Arrow/Black Canary, and I think we all know how well that went. (Those two also fall into the "sent off the show" category - Sara, and the "partly killed off" category - Laurel.) Two of the three most unpopular fan pairings (the Hawks again, Oliver/Laurel, Thea/that Dj) were from the comics. This does not bode well for comics canon in these shows.

True, the non-comic pairings, with the exception (so far) of Diggle/Lyla and the one episode of Kara/Jimmy, haven't lasted either, but that's the other point: in four years of Arrow and two years of Flash, only one couple - non comics Diggle/Lyla - have gotten together and stayed together. And their history includes a canon divorce that happened pre-show.  Only two other couples - Roy/Thea and Eddie/Iris - have made it through an entire season without breaking up, and both of those couples are non-comics canon - and no longer together.  Which is to say, no one on Arrow, Flash and Legends of Tomorrow so far has actually gotten together and stayed together without a breakup (at least pre show) or with at least one half of the pair dying off, even if only temporarily, and I see no reason to believe that Barry/Iris would be an exception to this.

I do think there are good reasons for believing that Barry and Iris will eventually get together and get married on Flash, but these are all arguments from the show, not from comics. They include the fact that Iris has been the main love interest since the pilot and that Barry's chief objection to Patty was that she "wasn't Iris," which, fair enough; the fact that the show has specifically said that their Earth-2 counterparts are happily married and that Barry and Iris are married in a future timeline; the fact that they kissed in the second season finale, since that's a fairly typical timing for endgame television love interests.  Of course, in show canon, Iris also chose Eddie not once, but three times, and Barry just chose to save his mother and alter the timeline instead of going out with Iris, but, well, television and CW shows BRING US THOSE ANGSTY BREAKUPS DURING SWEEPS MONTHS WE WANTS THEM WE WANTS THEM. 

[Velocity23]

Guggenheim will be at TCA2016. Send in your questions for LOT.

[Morrigan2575]

That's odd, wouldn't Guggie be there for both Arrow and LoT?

[Velocity23]

Not sure but August 11th is CW day at TCAs. I guess he will do interviews for Arrow, LOT and probably Vixen.

[tarotx]

I think they will have Wendy answer the Arrow questions. 

[Morrigan2575]

22 minutes ago, tarotx said:

I think they will have Wendy answer the Arrow questions. 

Is Wendy going to be there?

[SmallScreenDiva]

The reporter got asked on Twitter. She said someone was coming (didn't say who) and that she was going to be talking to them, but minutes later she deleted the tweet so who the heck knows what's going on.