Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[ComicFan777]

 

The younger Sara scene looks like she's handcuffed to the desk. I wonder if that's when she was caught shoplifting? I also guess that's the Sara, Caity didn't think she'd be playing again.

 

 

I think that one of the tweets mentioned that the Time Masters sent someone back in time to hunt down younger versions of the legends team.  Maybe a person tried to kill teenager Sara, but she gets away and starts raving like a lunatic to her father about a killer - I could imagine Lance thinking Sara might be on drugs or something and handcuff her to his desk to keep her from running off and disappearing. 

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Primal Slayer]

So finally gonna see Sara/Nyssa!

[Belinea]

For some reason I have yet to find the time to watch LoT but maybe someone who watches can explain something to me. Does anything that happens on the show change the course/direction of the other shows? (Flash/Arrow) So, if they go back in time or travel to the future, does that then change the current timeline of other shows? I'd assume not. 

[Velocity23]

 

So finally gonna see Sara/Nyssa!

Where?

[Sakura12]

Here's a clear version of the trailer

 

https://twitter.com/TheCW_Legends/status/714207206783102977

 

From that it looks like Talia learns from Sara. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by Sakura12

[Primal Slayer]

Where?

Unless my eyes deceived me, I could've sworn we saw Nyssa in there.

[scarynikki12]

if they go back in time or travel to the future, does that then change the current timeline of other shows?

 

 

Not yet, which is why I don't think Savage will be defeated in the past.  He gets defeated before 2016 and the events of the crossover cannot occur.  He'll either be defeated in real time or the future.

[ComicFan777]

Is it Nyssa at the 1:55 mark of the sizzle reel?

[Primal Slayer]

Yep, I just went back and watched it again, that is most def. Katrina Law.

[Sakura12]

Yep, it looks like Nyssa. 

 

[Starfish35]

Here's a clear version of the trailer

 

https://twitter.com/TheCW_Legends/status/714207206783102977

Thank you for that. For some reason the audio was really messed up on the other one.

[Guest]

I just got back from seeing Batman v Superman. Definitely didn't hate it. But didn't love it either. I agree with people who thought the editing was all over the place? It just kind of lacked any cohesiveness, IMO. And some of the things made me laugh and not in a good way?

The scene where Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman were fighting together had the weirdest, cheesiest soundtrack that totally distracted me. It was like it was trying so hard to say 'Look, this is so cool and awesome!' but it didn't work for me.

I thought the movie started well and then...IDK. It felt like something was missing and yet I can't seem to pinpoint what it was exactly. And my comic-loving boyfriend felt exactly the same. The people sitting behind me loved it though LOL. So I'd definitely check it out for yourselves and don't let critics put you off. :)

[ComicFan777]

For those of you who saw Batman v Superman, was Anatoli in the movie?  I've seen stuff floating around on the internet and didn't know why he would be in it (obviously I haven't seen it).  If so, do you think this will affect Arrow - in the way that since he is in the movie-verse, the character won't be able to be in Arrow Bratva flashbacks?

[quarks]

Anatoli is in Batman v. Superman, but like a couple of other minor characters, he's very easy to miss. I probably would have missed him if I hadn't been cracking up about the way Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne copied Oliver Queen's workout routine in Arrow after Arrow so blatantly ripped off the Nolan Batman movies.  That made me think of Arrow, and then I was like, wait! Anatoli!

 

I have no idea how this might or might not affect Arrow.

Edited March 28, 2016 by quarks

[Chaser]

I saw BVS too.

I think the critics were way too harsh on it. I didn't find it terrible. Im not sure how much I enjoyed it though. It's kind of weird to be honest.

I felt like I was watching two different movies. Batman and Superman. The Batman part I was actually good with. Intense, dark, brooding. Ben was good. It at least felt like Batman.

The Superman part was didn't work as well IMO. I don't think ZS gets Superman. It felt like it repeated the problems of MOS. Clark needed some humor and heart.

Lex was weird. I honestly can't remember if they even gave this character a motive. It felt like his was going for a Joker like vibe. I don't think I liked that much.

I'm so excited for Wonder Woman. I doubted the casting but now I'm totally on board with her.

It's long. Really long. There are some scenes with Bruce that I think should have been left on the cutting room floor, I know they were to establish his mindset but I just thought it was too much. Two scenes in particular I have zero idea what was going on with them.

I remember thinking half way through that this movie was very atmospheric but didn't feel genuine.

[wonderwall]

Okay so I'm in the middle of S2 of Daredevil and I feel like I'm watching this all wrong because:

• I don't care about Matt at all. In fact, he annoys me greatly. 
• I'm really meh about Claire. I like her. But I don't get the love she received
• Karen is great, but Matt brings her down
• Elektra is cool... But the subplot w/ her and Matt is annoying
• The most interesting parts about this show right now for me are the courtroom scenes
• This show really does develop the villains WAY better than the heroes
• I find myself not caring about the action scenes

 

Some popular opinions I do share though:

• Foggy is awesome
• The villains are excellent and what holds the seasons together so well
• Karen's scenes with Frank are excellent

 

So yeah... I feel like I'm watching a different show than other people :p

[nksarmi]

I think the LOT promo is so awesome - I can't wait for the rest of this season.  Also, in the opening scene where Rip is in the duel - Sara is crossing her fingers for him. It's so cute!  And I really do love BR/Ray in this show - too bad Arrow got him so wrong because he could have been a fun love interest for Felicity if they had written him like this.

 

Anyway, I just watched the Thomas Jane Punisher movie and I don't think I can go back to DD now.  I really, really enjoyed this movie from his motivations to his lines to his full on evolution into the comic book character.

 

Some comic book characters work as "chatty" "exposition heavy" characters - Spiderman comes to mind, Flash perhaps - but Daredevil and Punisher are not among them.  Now I'm reimaging the roof top scene with Thomas Jane and Ben Affleck and I'm almost certain it would have been done in ten lines or less.  It really isn't that I have a problem with them doing the battle of philosophies between Punisher and DD - it's that I would have wanted to see the story where the hunt down a crime boss together and then have the moral debate (but short on dialogue because really - what more is there to say but "killing bad" - "no killing effective"?).

 

And if they insisted on doing this debate - what I would have liked is for them to show me Matt saving a bunch of victims and striking fear into the heart of hell's kitchen just to have someone like the woman whose husband was going to carve her up get out and do what Matt stopped him from doing to begin with.  Then Matt and Frank could have had a real debate about how effective each one's methods were.  As is, they went for Punisher blowing everyone up and DD needing to step in before some innocent go hurt.  In my opinion, they pushed too hard to make DD right when they could have shown Punisher had a legit point-of-view as well.  Of course, I'm only on episode three but I do think I'm giving up.  I don't expect the court room to salvage for me what should have been done as costumed hero/anti-hero.

[Sakura12]

DD does show that The Punisher has a point of view in the courtroom scenes and from some of the other characters. 3 episodes in are not going to show the whole show. The Punisher's arc lasts the whole series. It was basically The Punisher Season 1. 

 

I agree with Matt becoming really unlikable in season 2. He was an ass as both Matt and Daredevil. His self righteousness was annoying and I found myself wanting to spend more time with anyone but him. While the Hand was useless as most secret ninja groups are in shows, I really like Elektra and Stick's stories. I would rather learn more about them than Matt and Stick. Frank and Karen scenes became a highlight of the season as well. 

[nksarmi]

Yea but I would rather have the Punisher / Dare Devil debate on the street than in the courtroom.  Is Frank / Frisk worth it?  I am intrigued with that possibility.  I want to check out their Electra but not liking the main character is a problem for me.  So far I don't dislike Matt, but I find him boring.  If I get to the point where I dislike him - it might turn me off Defenders.  Seriously, at this point - I probably should just read the synopsis and wait for Luke Cage.

 

You have peaked my interest with Frank and Karen - maybe I can YouTube those scenes. :)

Edited March 28, 2016 by nksarmi

[Sakura12]

They debate a couple more times out of the courtroom since Matt flakes on Foggy and Karen for the whole trial. The ending was worth it for me. 

 

I rarely ever like the main character, so that's not a problem for me. As long as the secondary characters can hold my interest I'll watch. 

 

ETA: I think Daredevil did a great job with their female characters. All three were written well and had their own story lines separate from Matt's. Karen and Claire don't have fighter skills but they managed to save themselves and others in a way that's realistic for them and Elektra got to make her own choice at the end. Matt's an idiot, hopefully the next time we see him he will have learned something from all the people in his life. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Sakura12

[BkWurm1]

Judging by Felicity's dress and her being in the wheelchair, it looks like Ray dropped by to visit Felicity at PT sometime in 4x13 (same day Felicity had her dad arrested).

Maybe we finally know who helped Felicity up the stairs. Maybe Ray was around even earlier. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by BkWurm1

[FurryFury]

Okay so I'm in the middle of S2 of Daredevil and I feel like I'm watching this all wrong because:

• I don't care about Matt at all. In fact, he annoys me greatly. 
• I'm really meh about Claire. I like her. But I don't get the love she received
• Karen is great, but Matt brings her down
• Elektra is cool... But the subplot w/ her and Matt is annoying
• The most interesting parts about this show right now for me are the courtroom scenes
• This show really does develop the villains WAY better than the heroes
• I find myself not caring about the action scenes

 

Some popular opinions I do share though:

• Foggy is awesome
• The villains are excellent and what holds the seasons together so well
• Karen's scenes with Frank are excellent

 

So yeah... I feel like I'm watching a different show than other people :p

Not really, I agree with most of your points. Especially Karen and Frank, actually, they are my current OTP (but I enjoy their canon platonic relationship a lot too).

[tv echo]

Warning! Minor spoilers...

 

Critic's Notebook: Five Lessons for Zack Snyder After 'Batman v Superman'
1:07 PM PDT 3/27/2016 by Stephen Dalton
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/critics-notebook-five-lessons-zack-878492

Edited March 28, 2016 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

LOL that was great and I hope the one thing Snyder does take away from all the criticism (because there IS time to fix Justice League) is that he makes sure those movies are FUN.  You shouldn't get permission to use the Flash if you aren't going to have him be funny.  I'm actually NOT the biggest fan of Nolan's Batman movies so outside of the fact that I am interested in exploring the idea that people would react in fear to Superman just as much as they do adoration - I would definitely appreciate some more humor in these movies.

[tv echo]

I saw BvS this weekend.  Incidentally, one of the previews before the movie was for TMNT2.  There was one shot of SA saying, "Hi, I'm Casey Jones."  And I heard someone in my movie audience gasp (as if recognizing him from Arrow).  I have to say, SA looks pretty good on the big screen.  Now back to BvS (fyi, I never read the comics or know anything about the comics other than what I've learned from watching superhero tv/movies and visiting this Arrow forum)...

 

Surprise - I liked the movie overall and thought that it was not as bad as the negative reviews claimed.  Yes, it had some major problems (discussed below) - and the typical Zack Snyder fight sequences featuring tons of destruction, smog, rubble and explosions got tiring and repetitive after awhile (plus a pretentious soundtrack) - but overall it was decent entertainment and nicely set up the upcoming Justice League movies.

 

If you had asked me before which of the two superheroes I preferred, I would've said Batman because I prefer heroes who are human and acquire their skills through hard work and ingenuity, rather than genetics or accident (with the exception of Steve Rogers). But after watching BvS, I am firmly on Team Superman.  To set up the contrived conflict between the two superheroes, they had to both act somewhat irrationally.  However, Bruce Wayne came across worse - like an arrogant asshole and hypocrite.  I couldn't stand him in the movie and kept wishing that Superman would just crush Batman.  In terms of acting, no matter what anyone says, I preferred Henry Cavill to Ben Affleck.  I actually saw a range of emotions expressed by Clark Kent, whereas Bruce Wayne pretty much maintained this stern, locked jaw expression throughout the entire movie (as if to say, 'look, I'm serious Batman').  I suppose that's actually a good thing because whenever Ben Afflect smiles, he gives off a smarmy, weak-willed vibe (all my opinion, of course). However, the worst actor by far in this movie was Jesse Eisenberg, who turned Lex Luthor into this cartoony, 2-D character who seemed out of place in this super serious movie.  Yes, a character can be quirky and crazy in a serious movie, but it must be done well. Contrast that with Heath Ledger, who wore clown make-up and played a freaky character in The Dark Knight, and yet still managed to portray a Joker with depth, dimension and pathos. I really liked Amy Adams as Lois Lane and thought that she and Henry Cavill had nice chemistry together.  My thoughts on Gal Gadot are below.

 

Now to the biggest problems, as well as the biggest saves, of BvS [MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD]...

 

TWO BIGGEST PROBLEMS:

First, the movie begins by highlighting the collateral damage from Superman's big fight with Zod two years ago (in Man of Steel), namely, lots of innocent lives lost when buildings collapsed. The message seems to be that there are bad consequences to these superhero fights.  A lot of the public, as well as the government, turns against Superman and blames him for the losses of life. But then about 2/3 of the rest of the movie is all about showcasing and glamorizing even more big fights that cause tons of property damage and destruction, and presumably more innocent lives lost as well.  The second and more significant problem with the movie is its fundamental premise - the conflict between Batman and Superman.  Two years ago, a Wayne building was destroyed and Bruce lost many employees and friends who were in that building.  He decides that Superman is responsible for bringing the battle to Earth.  Never mind that Superman saved all humanity on Earth from being terraformed out of existence by the world engines used by Zod or that Superman didn't come to Earth of his own choice but was sent here as a baby.  Bruce's motivation appears to be a mixture of vengeance (for the loss of life) and fear that Superman could turn evil in the future.  So he decides to act preemptively by taking down Superman now (gee, that's heroic - killing someone because he might turn bad in the future).  In his first fight, Superman easily defeats Batman. This sets Bruce on an obsessive quest to kill Superman. He steals the kryptonite mother lode found by Lex Luthor and creates kryptonite weapons. His motivation now comes across as more pique and bruised ego that there's someone more powerful than him who beat him than anything else.  On the other side, Clark decides that he needs to stop Batman, who's now stooped to hot-branding criminals with a bat shape.  However, he has no desire to kill Batman.  In fact, when Superman defeats Batman in their first confrontation, he simply gives him a warning - he doesn't even turn him over to the police. Of course, there's also some manipulation by Lex to turn the public and Bruce against Superman.  The problem is that I simply found the whole conflict unbelievable and, as I said, made me dislike Batman intensely. Considering that Superman continued to save various lives in this movie, the set up of trying to turn everyone against him (and also to give Clark a tortured soul) seemed super contrived.

 

TWO BIGGEST SAVES:

No surprise, but Wonder Woman's presence in the movie, albeit limited, really helped save it.  She appears in a few key scenes, first as a mysterious woman and then as Wonder Woman in the climactic battle scene, where she first heroically saves Batman and then fights really badass alongside the other two superheroes.  (My friend pointed out to me that Gal Gadot has the same facial expression in every one of her scenes - which is true, but I'll give her a pass for now because her role was so limited in this movie and required her to maintain an impassive, mysterious demeanor. Here's hoping her standalone movie will give her more opportunity to show her acting range.) The other big save was the last minute of the movie.  At the end, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman team up to fight Doomsday, an 'unkillable' kryptonian Hulk-like, grey creature that Lex created out of Zod's remains using the kryptonian spaceship.  But it is Superman who saves the world by using a kryptonite spear to kill the creature, but in doing so, dies. The U.S. government holds a military-style funeral for Superman with a parade bearing his flag-draped coffin (unknown to the public, empty), as the world mourns.  Clark Kent is reported killed, presumably while covering all the death and mayhem.  So his real body is buried by his mother in Smallville.  The movie ends with his funeral.  Bruce and Diana stop by and have a little talk, where Bruce mentions wanting to track down the other metahumans that he glimpsed in Lex's stolen database (Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg) and forming an alliance. We see a grief-stricken Lois throw a handful of dirt on Clark's coffin and then walk away.  Then in the very last minute - right before they cut to closing credits - they do a close-up shot of Clark's coffin in the open grave and we see/hear a rumble or thump, as if something hit the top of the coffin from inside, causing the dirt on top of the coffin to jump up. So maybe he's not dead? When it looked like Superman was going to be dead for real, I hated the movie and lost all interest in seeing any of the upcoming Justice League movies.  That last minute sign of hope that Superman lives saved the movie for me.

 

NICE USE OF COINCIDENCE:

I want to compliment a really neat use of the comic coincidence that both Bruce and Clark have mothers named Martha (Martha Wayne and Martha Kent).  When Batman and Superman have their second big fight, this time with Batman using kryptonite gas bombs to defeat Superman, Batman is stopped from killing Superman when Superman gasps out "Martha".  Turns out that Lex Luthor had kidnapped Martha Kent in order to force Superman to go fight Batman to the death. The word "Martha" stops Batman in his tracks and brings him back to sanity, giving Clark the opportunity to explain Lex's plan.

Edited March 28, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From the LoT panel at WonderCon on Mar. 27 (you may want to read the entire articles)...

 

WONDERCON: "DC'S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW" CAST AND EP TEASE WHAT'S TO COME IN SEASON 1
Albert Ching  18 hours ago | Updated: 16 hours ago
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/wondercon-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-cast-and-ep-tease-whats-to-come-in-season-1

Guggenheim said it made "total sense" to feature the already-established Atom and White Canary in the series, and that even if "Legends" didn't happen, their stories would have hopefully continued in "Arrow."

 

Looking Back (And Forward) At Legends Of Tomorrow At WonderCon
Posted March 28, 2016 by Erik Amaya
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/28/looking-back-and-forward-at-legends-of-tomorrow-at-wondercon/

Following a sizzle reel of upcoming events, cast members of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow appeared at WonderCon on Sunday to tease the final episodes of the show’s first season. Executive producer Marc Guggenheim was also on hand, “giddy” at the success of his television superteam.  “No one’s done it on television,” he said. “There’s also a ten year boy me who I consult when I take on a show. He was excited.”
*  *  *
Guggenheim admitted Vandal Savage was his favorite villain going back to an issue of The Flash featuring the character “punching Flash and kicking Green Lantern. It made an impression on me.”
 

Calling every member and actor of the team his first choice, the producer said he was keen to bring Caity Lotz and Brandon Routh over from Arrow. “We had the season of building up Ray and we had a Lazarus Pit in our pocket,” he said. Had Legends not gone forward, both characters would’ve returned to Arrow.
*  *  *
As on Arrow, Guggenheim learned what an episode can sustain. He mentioned the earlier episodes are a little more frantic than the back half of the season. But as with all first seasons, it was part of a learning curve.
*  *  *
Guggenheim called it a “group effort” back in the Legends writing room. “We’re all comic book nerds. We try hard to make it all work together,” he said.
*  *  *
As the show continues, Guggenheim said the writers are always looking to find interesting character pairings, but “sometimes, you just can’t fit all the groupings.” He noted Jacks and Sarah have barely said a word to each other until this point in the series. He also realized Sarah and Ray never met on Arrow.
*  *  *
While the series makes use of some obscure DC Comics characters, Guggenheim said his production team and the company have an “ongoing conversation” about which characters they can use. “It’s great to be able to have that discussion,” he said. “We’re honest about our wishlist. We’re lucky. We got to a lot we never thought would be possible.”

Edited March 28, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Warning - these two articles contain LoT spoilers (also include Arrow mentions)...

 

'Legends of Tomorrow': 20 Things We Learned from the Cast & EP at Wondercon
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      1 HOUR AGO
http://collider.com/legends-of-tomorrow-wondercon-2016-interview/

 

'Legends Of Tomorrow' Cast: The Dead Will Rise? EP Teases Hawkman & Heat Waves Futures At WonderCon [VIDEO]
By Vanessa Frith, EnStars on Mar 27, 2016 11:22 PM EDT
http://www.enstarz.com/articles/150668/20160327/legends-of-tomorrow-cast-the-dead-will-rise-ep-teases-hawkman-heat-waves-futures-at-wondercon-video.htm

[tv echo]

This is an interesting NY Times article (with interesting quotes from GB and GJ)...

 

For ‘The Flash’ and ‘Supergirl,’ Power to Pass Through Network Walls
By GEORGE GENE GUSTINES   MARCH 27, 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/28/arts/television/for-the-flash-and-supergirl-power-to-pass-through-network-walls.html?_r=0

The groundwork for Monday’s meeting can be traced back to the CW series “Arrow,” which began in 2012. That series follows the adventures of Oliver Queen, an urban vigilante known as Green Arrow in the comics, and its success helped open the door to more DC heroes on television. “I don’t think my partners at DC knew five years ago that it would grow,” Mr. Berlanti said. “If the interest had not been there on the part of fans, if people hadn’t been as supportive as they’ve been, none of this would happen.”
*  *  *
Comic book fans are intimately familiar with this type of minutia, but will keeping track of who’s who on what Earth be too challenging for viewers? “Only if we make it complicated,” said Geoff Johns, the chief creative officer at DC Entertainment. He is a fan of the multiverse concept. “The possibilities are endless,” he said. “There are no rules.” But he knows it is a balancing act. “Mythology is amazing, but the character and story have to come before that. If it’s just about mythology, it’s going to become confusing, like the worst comics are.”

Edited March 28, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Another interesting article (describing serialized comics as literary soap operas)...

 

Superheroes Should Skip Hollywood Cinema for TV Instead
By Tom Pritchard on 27 Mar 2016 at 10:00AM
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/03/superheroes-should-skip-hollywood-cinema-for-tv-instead/

It's not such a stupid idea when you think about it. Adapting a comic is completely different from adapting a book. A book is (usually) its own self-contained story and, unless it's George RR Martin length, it's relatively simple to adapt the pages onto the silver screen. Thanks to their serialised nature, it's not quite so easy to do that with comics. Sure you can adapt individual story arcs, but comics never really end.
 

Ongoing series are the soap operas of the literary world. Characters may come and go, but the stories just keep coming. But as amazing as a daily superhero soap sounds, it probably wouldn't work. The next best thing would be an ongoing TV series.
*  *  *
TV can also give a bit more of a safety net to certain franchises. If a film completely bombs at the box office (like Dredd), then that's basically a death sentence. A particularly bad week in the ratings doesn't always mean the death of a programme, and even if they don't seem to perform well over the course of the year (like Agent Carter) it's not the end of the world. Then again, this isn't a perfect system either and great programmes with a loyal fanbase end up cancelled (like Firefly, Futurama, Star Trek, and Arrested Development).
*  *  *
One other downside, at least one that effects the system as it is now, is that studios are very controlling about which characters can or can't appear on TV. If the film side of things have plans for a character on the big screen, then it's out of bounds for the TV shows. One very good example is that Arrow was forbidden from using Harley Quinn in their Suicide Squad arc, because of the upcoming film. In the end she was reduced to a brief faceless cameo. That said, if superheroes ditch the cinemas of the world in favour of the living room, this becomes far less of a problem. When you think about it like this, though, it's a bit surprising Barry Allen's Flash was allowed to have his own TV series.

Edited March 28, 2016 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

I can only assume the reason we get The Flash is because they hadn't firmly planned on using him for Justice League when they gave the green light to the show and now the show is doing so well only a moron would pull the plug.  Besides that, if they ever wanted to do a Crisis series, multiple Flashes work for that.

[Starfish35]

From Spoiler Thread:

I think it's cute you guys are trying to find story reasons for crossovers. All I hear is the cashing! sound effect.

Well, that's one of the reasons I was noting that it's interesting that they haven't tried to work in any more appearances from Flash characters into LoT. Except for Stein's hallucination of Cisco, it's been all Arrow characters (Oliver, Laurel, and apparently Felicity and Quentin upcoming), and the sizzle reel gives the impression that's not going to change. I think you were the one that noted that ratings go up every time that Barry guy shows up? :) I just find it interesting that they wouldn't try harder to work in some Flash appearances once or twice, since it's the more popular show ratings-wise. Maybe they didn't think LoT would need it? *shrug*

Talking about Arrow/Flash crossovers, has there been any this year other than the big main crossover and the Diggle/Lyla one?

Edited March 28, 2016 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

I don't follow either Flash or LoT behind the scenes shenanigans at all, so I don't have any informed spec, but if I had to guess, the Supergirl crossover was more interesting to the WB than getting Barry onto LoT.

[way2interested]

I don't follow either Flash or LoT behind the scenes shenanigans at all, so I don't have any informed spec, but if I had to guess, the Supergirl crossover was more interesting to the WB than getting Barry onto LoT.

I think that that's partially it, since GB and the EPs have admitted that they had plans for Barry going over to Supergirl since Supergirl's pilot, but I'm still curious as to why they still didn't try to cash more on Flash for LoT in general as well. Even Flash's contingency plan was bringing over Felicity for 104 to bump up ratings until the crossover, but LoT seems to not connect to universe for safety nets at all. 106 for LoT was promoted by CW for Oliver's appearance, but MG and the EPs were just admitting that they wanted to write it for the time-travelling/Dark Knight Returns Oliver/Connor Hawke of it all and not as an excuse to bring SA to the show. What it seems like to me is that they honestly didn't think that LoT would need a ratings bump at all.

 

Even if Flash was more concerned with making that Supergirl crossover happen on top of the regular crossover and the mini crossover with Diggle and Lyla, I still feel like a crossover with LoT would have been on their priority list as a safety net for LoT regardless if the Supergirl crossover happened or not. Even with Barry going over to Supergirl, LoT could have still had Cisco crossover as easily as Felicity did for 104 of Flash (especially since this season has been focusing on his vibing powers) and not have to worry about locking down GG for another crossover appearance. Cisco appeared, but it wasn't promoted or even mentioned or even had any importance to the plot at all, which kind of just feels like a waste of time and effort with no ratings benefits to me. And now, with the LoT crew finishing the finale with no mentioning of GG appearance at all (which doesn't mean too much, since I'm pretty sure we didn't find out that Barry was in 323 until the promo and the pics), it just feels strange to me how they would not take advantage of Flash, as the highest rated show, at all, except for a quick cameo of Cisco, and are potentially just putting more focus on small Arrow connections like Felicity's, the League's, Lance's, and Nyssa's appearances (barring Oliver's appearance in 106, which was a large connection but still solely Arrow).

[AyChihuahua]

Um, wow:

 

Batman v Superman isn’t just bad, it’s hopelessly, artlessly, brutally awful. It’s an irredeemable, mawkish, maudlin nightmare. Am I using a lot of adjectives? Because I truly, truly don’t think I’ve adequately conveyed my thoughts. I came home last night and spent a solid fifteen minutes raving to my wife at how… not just disappointed or frustrated I was, but how angry I was with this picture. It’s one thing to reach and to fail. But the staggering hubris and arrogance behind this picture is actually infuriating. Snyder abandoned everything righteous and good and wondrous about his characters, and instead made a dour, sullen pile of smoldering shit. And even if you have no history, no love for these iconic characters, it’s still simply and objectively trash. I’ve seen any number of terrible films in my eight years writing for this site, but I truly don’t believe I’ve ever hated a movie as much as I hated this one. I’d rather watch someone melt kittens than sit through it again.

 

http://www.pajiba.com/film_reviews/ive-never-hated-anything-the-way-i-hate-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice.php

[Sakura12]

I think as others pointed out while Barry is a ratings grab, the Arrow crew has deeper connections to the LoT crew. Quentin and Laurel are related to Sara, Oliver and Sara are friends with a deep bond and Felicity dated Ray and is friends with Sara. 

 

Captain Cold and Heatwave are Barry's enemies, Kendra dated Cisco for 2 days, they barely know Jax, and they never met Sara. Ray and Cisco bonded a little. Stein is the only one Team Flash would visit. Cisco getting name dropped as a costume designer and being Stein's hallucination is what worked. I know it's a money thing but then they'd have to find a way to put Barry in there. Plus all the other crossovers on LoT are/were goodbyes, flashforwards and flashbacks. 

 

With that and the way LoT works, I don't see how or why Barry or anyone on Team Flash would visit. They don't need scientists, they have two with Ray and Stein.  They don't need Barry's powers, they have people with powers and are already time traveling. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Sakura12

[tv echo]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the Supergirl/Flash crossover tonight - plus, a GA mention (and lol, some CW snark)...

 

 

[ComicFan777]

After seeing the Supergirl/Flash crossover sneak peak #3, I just found this post hilariously funny.  Love Cat Grant.

http://oliverdant.tumblr.com/post/141647840928/dailydcheroes-she-knows-she-knows

 

[tv echo]

This entire interview is interesting, but I've only quoted parts that mention SA/Oliver/GA...

 

Greg Berlanti & Andrew Kreisberg on the ‘Supergirl’/’The Flash’ Cross-over Episode
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      1 DAY AGO
http://collider.com/supergirl-the-flash-crossover-episode/

Question: How did you ultimately end up getting this cross-over together, and what were the logistics of making it all work?

GREG BERLANTI: We always wanted to do it. From the day we cast Melissa [benoist], the notion of her in scenes with Grant [Gustin], or someday maybe, in the best of all worlds, with Stephen [Amell], as well, it’s exciting to think of them on screen together. And there’s a similar tonality to the shows. But, a few things had to go right. We were introducing this notion of Earth-2 and the multi-verse on The Flash, and that had to work. We’ve always said, very openly, that The Flash and Arrow exist in a universe where there’s no Superman, or you would have heard about him. They would have had at least one conversation about him, and certainly Supergirl, as well. That was one thing.
*  *  *
Now that the multi-verse has been introduced to Supergirl’s world and aliens have been introduced to Barry Allen, will that have repercussions?

ANDREW KREISBERG: Not necessarily. One of the things that I was most gratified about, and part of the reason I got so excited in doing it, was that it isn’t just a gimmick episode. Supergirl really needed him this week because of the things that she’s been dealing with. I called Grant and said, “Do you want to do this? You’re going to get to be Oliver.” And he was like, “I’m going to have to be all dark and brooding?” And I was like, “No, no, no, no, no. In the same way that, in the pilot, you were just starting out and Oliver was the one who had been doing it for awhile, he was able to be the voice of reason and help you out. That’s what you’re going to be for Kara. Kara is just starting out and she’s had a crisis of conscience because of the Red Kryptonite.”
*  *  *
Why was The Flash the hero you chose to cross-over?

BERLANTI: It’s just that he was the gateway. He was the only one who had the capacity to really open that door. Hopefully, now it’s out. In a perfect world, it probably would have been both [The Flash and Green Arrow], but logistically, that would have been a nightmare, at this point in the year, to do that with both shows. So, we had to facilitate one.

KREISBERG: The Flash and Arrow cross-overs have always been designed to highlight the hero’s differences. The first one was Flash vs. Arrow. And even in the ones we did this season, when they were working together, there tended to be a great deal of conflict. It’s a cross-cutting of styles and, “Should we be doing this, this way?” What was appealing about this was the idea of Melissa and Grant being so similar as actors, and Barry and Kara both have a light to them. They’re definitely heroes that are daytime heroes that live more in the light. Watching the two of them form this instantaneous best friendship was, creatively speaking, part of what was really exciting for us to explore in this episode.

Edited March 28, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

After seeing the Supergirl/Flash crossover sneak peak #3, I just found this post hilariously funny. Love Cat Grant.

http://oliverdant.tumblr.com/post/141647840928/dailydcheroes-she-knows-she-knows

Haha, that's funny

[way2interested]

With that and the way LoT works, I don't see how or why Barry or anyone on Team Flash would visit. They don't need scientists, they have two with Ray and Stein.  They don't need Barry's powers, they have people with powers and are already time traveling. 

The thing is, the way you mentioned it, those are all story reasons why Flash characters wouldn't be on LoT, not production reasons. Those are logical reasons story-wise, but writing for ratings on television doesn't always connect with the logical story beats. Oliver appeared (and was in the promos) in 122 of Flash to help Barry out even though he had no time or opportunity to do that in Flash because they wanted to capitalize on the crossover effect again. Barry (also promoted) appeared in 323 to help the team even though he was busy with Reverse Flash and left very quickly despite a very imminent terrorist attack on Starling City while Barry already caught his big bad because Arrow wanted a ratings bump for its finale(further being illogical with the story, since originally it was supposed to be Katana who rescued the team which makes more sense).

 

If CW wanted it for a ratings bump, LoT would have to include a Flash/Arrow character and write some sort of story reasoning for it (ex: Ray and Stein being incapacitated at the same time that Cisco just happens to be able to vibe through dimensions, Rip deciding that they need the Flash after Hawkgirl gets incapacitated, etc.). Considering they promoted 106 for Oliver being in it, they do take into consideration the ratings influence that the crossovers bring, but for some reason are not doing it., or at least not doing it for Flash specifically for some reason (since Cisco's appearance was not promoted at all and Barry hasn't appeared yet at all even though he was in the original promo footage- despite the fact that that footage wasn't from the actual show). It may be because they don't want to try to fit in Flash inorganically like you said, but if CW wanted them to include Barry to get more ratings, then Barry would appear as he did in Arrow.

 

Although, now that I think about it, it may just be a money issue with their large cast, special effects, and many sets. Almost every character that crosses over has crossed with their respective sets (Cisco with STAR Labs, Felicity with her office, Lance with the police station, Oliver and Laurel in the Arrow cave in the pilot), which probably saves them a lot of time/effort/money in getting them for somewhat cameo appearances rather than having Barry have to speed in and put an extra cost on their special effects budget (which is already avoiding their own special effects, since Ray and Kendra only use the suit and her powers occasionally).

Edited March 28, 2016 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

further being illogical with the story, since originally it was supposed to be Nyssa who rescued the team which makes more sense).

I believe it was supposed to be Katana not Nyssa that was going to rescue the group in 323 until the network said they wanted another crossover.

[way2interested]

I believe it was supposed to be Katana not Nyssa that was going to rescue the group in 323 until the network said they wanted another crossover.

Right, just checked again, and you are correct, my bad. I still believe that Katana makes more sense story-wise in rescuing the group than Barry did.

[foreverevolving]

Holy shit that second supergirl clip was awesome!

I don't get it though.. I thought Cat knew Kara's secret? so why not just tell her who Barry is?

[nksarmi]

Katana did make more sense - the reason for Barry running in and out and not helping was weak.

 

But I think due to Barry's time travelling capabilities - he could easily show up on a futuristic episode of LoT.  And given that we had shots of him in the group fight scenes when they were still promoting the show - I wouldn't rule out the idea that he still might join them in the future.  I'm not sure we will ever see that roof top scene where Barry and Oliver helped Rip recruit the team but it would be interesting if after the Time Masters hunt down the team - Rip has to reboot the team another way and uses Barry and Oliver to do it in an alternate timeline. 

 

We've been wondering how Heatwave will rejoin the team (since he is a regular unlike the guy who played Hawkman) and that would be one way to do it.

[arjumand]

Um, wow:

 

Batman v Superman isn’t just bad, it’s hopelessly, artlessly, brutally awful. It’s an irredeemable, mawkish, maudlin nightmare. Am I using a lot of adjectives? Because I truly, truly don’t think I’ve adequately conveyed my thoughts. I came home last night and spent a solid fifteen minutes raving to my wife at how… not just disappointed or frustrated I was, but how angry I was with this picture. It’s one thing to reach and to fail. But the staggering hubris and arrogance behind this picture is actually infuriating. Snyder abandoned everything righteous and good and wondrous about his characters, and instead made a dour, sullen pile of smoldering shit. And even if you have no history, no love for these iconic characters, it’s still simply and objectively trash. I’ve seen any number of terrible films in my eight years writing for this site, but I truly don’t believe I’ve ever hated a movie as much as I hated this one. I’d rather watch someone melt kittens than sit through it again.

 

http://www.pajiba.com/film_reviews/ive-never-hated-anything-the-way-i-hate-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice.php

 

Yeah, these reviews are amazing. If you like video reviews, watch redlettermedia and MovieBob - they take it apart.

 

Unfortunately, the movie's made ALL THE MONEY this weekend. I hate Zack Snyder.

[Trini]

Well, that's one of the reasons I was noting that it's interesting that they haven't tried to work in any more appearances from Flash characters into LoT. Except for Stein's hallucination of Cisco, it's been all Arrow characters (Oliver, Laurel, and apparently Felicity and Quentin upcoming), and the sizzle reel gives the impression that's not going to change. I think you were the one that noted that ratings go up every time that Barry guy shows up? :) I just find it interesting that they wouldn't try harder to work in some Flash appearances once or twice, since it's the more popular show ratings-wise. Maybe they didn't think LoT would need it? *shrug*

 

Maybe it's something on the Flash production end? They spent a lot of episodes in their first half setting up Legends (Stein, Jax, Kendra, Capt. Cold). Maybe they wanted to fully concentrate on their Zoom/Earth-2 arcs in the back half.  Barry/Flash would be the only cameo to make sense; but between his own show and going to LA for Supergirl, maybe it's too much for his schedule?

[Sakura12]

I knew the movie would make tons of money. I'm interested in the second week. Every movie drops but it's how much that tells you how popular the movie is. 

[thegirlsleuth]

Yeah, these reviews are amazing. If you like video reviews, watch redlettermedia and MovieBob - they take it apart.

 

Unfortunately, the movie's made ALL THE MONEY this weekend. I hate Zack Snyder.

They are also reporting that it had the biggest Friday to Sunday audience drop of any movie--55 percent--beating any other movie's drop by a lot.  Word of mouth/critics MAY matter.

[AyChihuahua]

Plus doesn't it have to make like a billion dollars worldwide just to break even?

 

I totally hate ZS, but man, I loved the Dawn of the Dead remake. Or at least the parts I could watch, bc once they left the mall I was so scared I had to leave the room, go into another room, lock that door, go into the bathroom attached to that room and lock THAT door. Yes I may be a wuss, but DAMN that movie was effective!

 

Plus the nice dad in Modern Family was a FANTASTIC douchebag in it.

[Chaser]

I actually feel bad for the cast. BVS was not the perfect movie and could have been a lot better, but I honestly didn't feel it was nearly as bad as people said.