Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[tv echo]

What a surprise - Zack Snyder's big screen Flash may be darker (yes, that's sarcasm)...

 

EXCLUSIVE: ‘Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice’ director Zack Snyder on why he wouldn't use Grant Gustin’s Flash
BY ETHAN SACKS    Monday, March 21, 2016, 2:49 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/snyder-considered-grant-gustin-flash-article-1.2572225

Despite the popularity that actor Grant Gustin has run up as the The Flash on his CW series, Snyder told the Daily News that there was never a consideration to bring him into the fledgling DC Comics cinematic universe that’s being built by Warner Bros.
*  *  *
“I just don’t think it was a good fit,” says Snyder of bringing in Gustin’s verison of The Flash to “The Justice League,” which starts filming next month.
*  *  *
“I’m very strict with this universe and I just don’t see a version where...that (tone is) not our world.”
 

That world, which will be the basis for at least 10 movies over the next five years, has a tone that’s much darker, more brooding than the TV-versions of the DC superheroes.
 

Simply put, Gustin’s Barry Allen smiles way too much to be allowed in the same Hall of Justice as Ben Affleck’s Batman.

*  *  *
“Even if Grant Gustin is my favorite guy in the world and he’s very good, we made a commitment to the multi-verse (idea), so it’s just not a thing that’s possible.”

[kismet]

Either blend the TV & movie verses or keep them distinctly separate, personally either method works for me. But if SA can't be the movie GA, than GG can't be the movie Flash. It's equality but it also keeps the universes separate and therefore easy to follow one or the other, or both if you wanted.

[calliope1975]

If they want to keep the movie and TV universes separate, fine, but then why are Batman and Supes, etc. off the table for TV? At least be consistent in the BS that's being thrown around.

 

Why is Snyder in charge of steering the DC universe????? /notafan

[Delphi]

Watched Gotham last night. And I have to say in far more impressed with young David M's interpretation of Bruce Wayne than anything I've seen of Affleck's. That kid is a great actor and someone I can actually see donning the cowl.

[hogwash]

Man of Steel soured me on the universe but I'm kinda interested about the DCU version of Flash. This is same universe that Pa Kent turned into a sociopath. Their Barry Allen is gonna be a doozy. Maybe he'll do the Flashpoint thing and his newly alive mom will tell him not to change it back because he doesn't owe the world anything (I'm not bitter....).

[kismet]

If they want to keep the movie and TV universes separate, fine, but then why are Batman and Supes, etc. off the table for TV? At least be consistent in the BS that's being thrown around.

 

I agree they need consistency. I wonder if its a royalties/$$$ issue. Mostly everybody cares about profit over story, so I could see them putting the kibosh on expensive royalties or TV avoiding paying out big $$ for certain characters.

 

Watched Gotham last night. And I have to say in far more impressed with young David M's interpretation of Bruce Wayne than anything I've seen of Affleck's. That kid is a great actor and someone I can actually see donning the cowl.

Haven't seen enough of BatAffleck to comment, except I hate what they've done with his voice.

However, I love the young actor that plays Bruce Wayne. David M is one talented actor. I hope Gotham opens doors for him. I can see him having a long & respected career if he chooses his projects well like Leo or JLaw who came from TV to movie royalty.

[Velocity23]

 

 

 

 

SARA RETURNS TO THE LEAGUE OF ASSASSINS -- Ray (Brandon Routh), Sara (Caity Lotz) and Kendra (Ciara Renée) are shocked after they watch the Waverider fly off without them, leaving them stranded in the '50s. After waiting months for their teammates to come back, the three realize they must move on with their lives. Ray and Kendra bond as a couple but Sara decides to return to the League of Assassins and Ra's al Ghul (guest star Matt Nable). John Showalter directed the episode written by Beth Schwartz & Grainne Godfree (#109). Original airdate 3/31/2016.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/ras-al-ghul-pits-white-canary-against-hawkgirl-in-new-legends-of-tomorrow-photos

Sara in LOA garb!

Also *gags* Kendra and Ray

 

[Guest]

Wow, Sara and Oliver have so many similar story/character beats.

[Sakura12]

Wow, Sara and Oliver have so many similar story/character beats.

I don't think so. Sara actually was a member of the league. She was trained by them and killed for them. Going back while being stuck in a time where she'd get no respect as a woman and having a bloodlust makes sense for her character. Oliver going to the league was just stupid and unnecessary.

[looptab]

I don't remember, what happened to Vandal Savage in the last episode? Also, stay away from the shows I like, Matt Nable. 

 

I don't know what to think about Sara returning to the League time and time again..I'll wait to see before I judge.

Edited March 22, 2016 by looptab

[tarotx]

I agree with you both. Oliver and Sara have a lot of similar traits and character beats. The LOA story fits Sara's journey so much better though. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Ooh.  Ray/Kendra bonding and the return of Ra's?  Even if I actually did watch that show, that episode would be a HARD PASS for me.  Yuck.  I've tried very hard to forget Arrow season 3, thank you very much.

[tarotx]

Vandal was lazered out a window by Ray. Sara returned to the LOA last time to save Starling. She seems to want to save her city/frriends and famiy. This time because there isn't a lot of options for women like Sara in 1958. And I agree about MN.

I don't remember, what happened to Vandal Savage in the last episode? Also, stay away from the shows I like, Matt Nable. 

 

I don't know what to think about Sara returning to the League time and time again..I'll wait to see before I judge.

[Guest]

I don't think so. Sara actually was a member of the league. She was trained by them and killed for them. Going back while being stuck in a time where she'd get no respect as a woman and having a bloodlust makes sense for her character. Oliver going to the league was just stupid and unnecessary.

 

That wasn't really my point. Just seeing Sara in the same outfit that Oliver wore while he was in the league reminded me that they have encountered similar situations. I'm not getting into any of Sara's motivations. I don't even watch Legends. It was purely observation. 

[Sakura12]

That's the league's outfit, they all wear that. Malcolm was the first character we saw wearing it.

That's why I don't get the whole white Canary name. So far Sara still had a need to kill people, has killed people and still thinks all she is an assassin. She's not fighting in the light just because she's wearing a different color. She also still wears a lot of black when not in her Canary outfit.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Sakura12

[ComicFan777]

So I wonder how does joining the league in the 50's affects her present-past when she joins a second time (when Nyssa is alive) since Ra's is the same guy...does it change Ra's perception of her later on...time travel is so confusing...

Edited March 22, 2016 by ComicFan777

[nksarmi]

I'm not really looking forward to the return of Ra's, but I am looking forward to seeing Sara in full LoA mode so I will accept it. Also, don't hate me, but I find Kendra and Ray adorable together and I like them both with each other better than anyone else either of them has been paired with (I like Cisco but I hated Cisco and Kendra together - it just did NOT work for me).

 

Regarding Hank and Alex - um yea, I could ship them.  I could also watch a show of just them.  :)

 

I actually don't mind their decision to put Lucy in the DOA - she works much better there than at Catco.  I think Winn needs to get over there as well to be honest. 

[looptab]

I wonder whether they'll move to another city, otherwise how can they live there since VS is still a threat?

 

I want a fb episode about how Sara got to wear the outfit we first saw her in.

[Sakura12]

I always wondered why Sara got to wear her own outfit. Maybe that's a perk from dating the boss's daughter? Since Nyssa had her own outfit too.

[hogwash]

Ray and Kendra are still playing house? Why? 

[nksarmi]

Ray and Kendra had a spark and have shared a couple of kisses.  Given that they have been marooned together for an extended period of time in 1958 (the previews set the number at 2 years I think) - it makes sense that their spark would turn into a full-on relationship.  I don't know if it will last, but it's not surprising.

 

I have to hand it to the team behind this show - I hated Ra's and the LoA in season three of Arrow, but I admit to being curious about what's going on with Sara next episode.  Still, I'd be happy not to see them again after this lol.

[Starfish35]

I don't think there's a good in-show explanation for the outfit Sara was wearing when she showed up. They wanted her in that outfit because they wanted her to look like Black Canary. I think that's it. *shrug*

I'm perfectly fine with Kendra and Ray. They're cute, and as nksarmi said, I prefer both of them with each other to any of the other pairings either of them have been in.

[statsgirl]

Ray and Kendra are in love. Or at least like.  Every show has to have at least one couple and it seems like they want to save Sara for whoever later in the series. I'm kind of okay with it because in spite of Kendra being a warrior priestess, she also seems like an unassuming person who needs defending and that's the type Ray seems to go for.  He wants to be someone's white knight.

 

So I wonder how does joining the league in the 50's affects her present-past when she joins a second time (when Nyssa is alive) since Ra's is the same guy...does it change Ra's perception of her later on...time travel is so confusing...

Maybe she tells him 'Remember to train me when I get back'.  I think it's a good thing Nyssa hasn't been born yet.

 

I'm kind of excited to see Sara go back to the LoA to see how she does now that she's got more self-confidence and belief in herself than she had the first time she was there.  And a way better place to spend her time than the sexist "women should know their place" fifties.

[Sakura12]

I wasn't a fan of what they did with Ra's on Arrow. But I am interested in seeing League Sara. It would be nice if they showed flashbacks to first time Sara joined the league to show the differences.

 

I would love to see the Sara laughing in Ra's face as he showed off his "power" scene. That Nyssa mentioned. 

[Delphi]

I don't think there's a good in-show explanation for the outfit Sara was wearing when she showed up. They wanted her in that outfit because they wanted her to look like Black Canary. I think that's it. *shrug*

I'm of the mind that since Sara didn't come back to Starling on league business and didn't want them finding her she ditched her league outfit and came up with the Canary costume on her own after she got back in the country. Edited March 22, 2016 by Delphi

[looptab]

I don't think there's a good in-show explanation for the outfit Sara was wearing when she showed up. They wanted her in that outfit because they wanted her to look like Black Canary. I think that's it. *shrug*

 

Oh, for sure. My comment was ironic ;)I'd like to see them try and explain it, haha.

[Primal Slayer]

That's the league's outfit, they all wear that. Malcolm was the first character we saw wearing it.

That's why I don't get the whole white Canary name. So far Sara still had a need to kill people, has killed people and still thinks all she is an assassin. She's not fighting in the light just because she's wearing a different color. She also still wears a lot of black when not in her Canary outfit.

I think it has more to do with them changing their plan with Sara. Originally it seemed she was trying to be redemptive and find a new way to do things but they threw that out of the window as quickly as they introduced it. Same with her "bloodlust" that is barely a thing.

I'm interested in seeing her reasoning in the LoA this time around especially when she ran from them in s2. And how this effects the time line (probably won't) since this should have some ramifications for future Sara imo.

[BkWurm1]

All I can say is that while one episode of Barry and Kara can hold me - they better bring back Hank and Alex stat because those two MAKE the show for me.

Yeah, I'm willing to let the state of things slide for a couple episodes and then I start freaking out.  They had better not have "fixed" the show by getting rid of two of the best parts.  Hank, Alex and Cat.  These are the three functional relationships with Kara/Supergirl.  If it turns out they rebooted their series in order to make more room for Winn, Jimmy and Lucy, I will riot.  I can't believe the producers would be that foolish.  Sadly then I remember they also answer to corporate bean counters that might have demographics more in their line of sight than functioning characterization and I start to worry. 

[BkWurm1]

I’m very strict with this universe and I just don’t see a version where...that (tone is) not our world.”

 

That world, which will be the basis for at least 10 movies over the next five years, has a tone that’s much darker, more brooding than the TV-versions of the DC superheroes.

 

Simply put, Gustin’s Barry Allen smiles way too much to be allowed in the same Hall of Justice as Ben Affleck’s Batman.

*  *  *

“Even if Grant Gustin is my favorite guy in the world and he’s very good, we made a commitment to the multi-verse (idea), so it’s just not a thing that’s possible.”

 

This is exactly why Snyder should flop. (But probably won't because there is a desperate crowd out there)  Batman should be a dark world.  Superman a light one.  Flash a really light one.  Flash should always be smiling too much for Bruce Wayne's comfort.  That is their dynamic.  They have this backwards.  They shouldn't push the same tone on all the characters, they should find a way to stay true to each character and then bring them together.  Oh well.  In twenty years we'll get a reboot and they'll do it right. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

LOL I feel like the only person actually looking forward to Batman V. Superman.

[BkWurm1]

Maybe it will get a good feedback from the audience this weekend.  Til then, my expectations are low. 

[looptab]

LOL I feel like the only person actually looking forward to Batman V. Superman.

*waves* you're not alone!

[wonderwall]

LOL I feel like the only person actually looking forward to Batman V. Superman.

WONDER WOMAN!!! (insert heart eyes :')) Honestly just her character alone is making me look forward to this movie :P BUT I'd love to be pleasantly surprised by B&S :)

Edited March 22, 2016 by wonderwall

[jay741982]

LOL I feel like the only person actually looking forward to Batman V. Superman.

I'm pumped for it! First time ever in a live action movie I get to see Batman Superman Wonder Woman Lex Luthor In the Same Film. Plus I wanna see Batman whooping some ass he's my favorite DC Hero

[kismet]

LOL I feel like the only person actually looking forward to Batman V. Superman.

I'm looking forward to it... but then again I've always enjoyed Ben Affleck's acting even when it is bad. And the opportunity to see Henry Cavill, after watching Man from UNCLE last week, I would probably pay to see Henry Cavill read the phone book. It's just a really busy time for me, so who knows when I will actually be able to see it.

[nksarmi]

Yeah, I'm willing to let the state of things slide for a couple episodes and then I start freaking out.  They had better not have "fixed" the show by getting rid of two of the best parts.  Hank, Alex and Cat.  These are the three functional relationships with Kara/Supergirl.  If it turns out they rebooted their series in order to make more room for Winn, Jimmy and Lucy, I will riot.  I can't believe the producers would be that foolish.  Sadly then I remember they also answer to corporate bean counters that might have demographics more in their line of sight than functioning characterization and I start to worry. 

 

I would feel so bad about this, but I don't think I'll be able to watch without Hank and Alex.  The dynamic between Alex and Kara is simply the best on the show - perhaps the best of anything I'm currently watching.  And I love every moment Hank and Alex are on screen together. 

 

I am hoping to high heaven that they sat down and brainstormed after their first 13 episodes and decided to figure out a way to out Hank as MM while simultaneously putting Lucy some place where her character "works" (while also perhaps creating a road for James and Lucy to reunite and postpone the Kara romance or hopefully eliminate it because honestly - I kind of don't like it).  I am also hoping that they figured out that they should tie more of everything to the DEO so hopefully some combination of events happens over the course of the last few episodes that outs the alien experimentation stuff to the public (that's where James and Cat come in), allows MM to be seen as a hero in the public light (because really why should he be different than the Supes?), and reinstates Hank and Alex to the DEO while keeping Lucy there.

 

That way we have Hank, Alex, and Lucy at the DEO for her "Supergirl" life and James, Winn, and Cat at Catco for her "work" life.  I think that would balance things out rather well.  And honestly, I hope they do away with shipping Supergirl with anyone.  I could get into Hank and Alex, I could even enjoy James and Lucy if they put the James/Kara stuff behind them, and they can leave Winn and Kara free to date other people and just be friends as far as I'm concerned. 

LOL I feel like the only person actually looking forward to Batman V. Superman.

 

Oh no I am super excited about it.  I don't mind the darker tint to Superman at all to be honest (and I kind of thought I would).  I'm bubbling over with excitement about Wonder Woman.  I don't care that much about Flash I guess.  If the movie version doesn't work for me, I have the television show which despite having serious flaws still entertains me.  So, whatever. :)

Edited March 22, 2016 by nksarmi

[SonofaBiscuit]

Not a Ben Affleck fan.  Something about him annoys me immensely.  Henry Cavill is aces, though.  I read a story about a lady who knew him before he really became a big star, and he genuinely seems like a nice person.  I don't care about BvS...I just want a Man from U.N.C.L.E. sequel :(  

[Sakura12]

I hated Man of Steel, but having seen Henry Cavill in Man from U.N.C.L.E I know he can be more than that mopey Superman they gave us. 

 

I don't really care about BvS, I'm looking forward to Suicide Squad and possibly Wonder Woman if she receives good reviews from BvS. However the dark tone that DC seems to like might be a turn off for me. I don't mind some darkness to the characters. I just don't like on all depressing and dark super hero movie. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Not a Ben Affleck fan.  Something about him annoys me immensely.  Henry Cavill is aces, though.  I read a story about a lady who knew him before he really became a big star, and he genuinely seems like a nice person.  I don't care about BvS...I just want a Man from U.N.C.L.E. sequel :(  

I think I read the same article. He does seem like a nice person... And of course a Man from UNCLE sequel would be amazing, sadly I don't think it pulled a profit, so I doubt it will happen. But I will always be hopeful :)

[Starfish35]

Not a Ben Affleck fan. Something about him annoys me immensely. Henry Cavill is aces, though. I read a story about a lady who knew him before he really became a big star, and he genuinely seems like a nice person. I don't care about BvS...I just want a Man from U.N.C.L.E. sequel :(

I don't like Affleck either, but I do like Henry Cavill. And their "Lex" is not working for me either, but I want to see Wonder Woman. So I'll see it. I'm just not sure yet whether I'll see it in the theater or wait for it to come out for rental.

[nksarmi]

I am hoping but not overly optimistic that they will work in some humor.  Flash should be a fun character even if he isn't as light and fluffy as the television version.  The snippets I've seen with Diana and Bruce Wayne look promising to me.  But I like Affleck as an actor as I think he can pull off the older version of Batman they are going for.  Plus I think - or hope - that once Superman and Batman trust each other than the overall tone of Justice League will lighten to a "the world is in peril and we have to save it!" kind of darkness rather than a "you're a danger and you need to be taken down" kind of darkness.

[Chaser]

I was reading more about the Gilmore Girls Revival and they mentioned shooting a BVS promo with Milo and Jared.

 

LOL I don't get it.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Chaser

[AyChihuahua]

Trajectory, seriously? What a terrible name.

[jay741982]

I was really hoping they would end this episode of The Flash differently since we are seeing Barry on two different shows next week

[apinknightmare]

This episode would've been better if we'd found about Jay/Zoom at the same time the team did.

 

I walked in on Iris's conversation with her boss mid-scene. Did she admit she'd be willing to date him?

[nksarmi]

I don't think Jay is Zoom though.  I know Reverse Flash did the afterimage thing, but we saw Zoom dragging Jay's corpse.  My only fear now is the Jay we knew all season was a clone.  Oh please no not cloning in this universe.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think Jay is Zoom though.  

 

Even if he isn't, they still took any drama out of tonight's reveal by basically giving us information we already had. Jay is allegedly Zoom - like, him taking off his mask should've been surprising, but we learned about that however in the hell many weeks ago the last ep aired.

Edited March 23, 2016 by apinknightmare

[nksarmi]

Yes but I think they want us to know what Barry doesn't and of course we have to scream at Caitlyn for not remember that she saw Hunter Zolomon already.  It isn't Flash unless you're pissed that some character isn't remembering something they should! :)

[kismet]

I half expected Cisco to turn into a werewolf when they were in nature... until he does something better with his hair for me he will always look like a reject werewolf extra from the Twilight movies...so the whole woods was a little too reminiscent of Twilight that it made it for more obvious in my head.

[Primal Slayer]

I am surprised they didn't set up Barry traveling over to Supergirl.