Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[way2interested]

Obviously SA, CH, WH, EBR, CL, KC were hired for their looks, and I say that as someone who likes CH and WH. It's why the likes of Susanna Thomson, Alex Kingston, Colin Salmon, Paul Blackthorne and John Barrowman were hired; to do the heavy lifting when it came to the emotional stuff, and hopefully to bring the younger actors up to their level.

 

Every young actor/actress on CW is hired for their looks.

Eh, every actor to some extent is hired based on his/her looks (even older actors), not just on the CW, even though CW is more notorious for being the pretty people network to get its younger audience. 

 

Hiring actors is based on a number of factors, with an important emphasis on how you look on-screen. Things like marketability, personality, availability, chemistry (with the cast/crew/EPs), auditions, and pure convenience come into play as well. Heck, for the CW, I would argue that they focus more on convenience for themselves even over how the actors look, even though they do seem to have a level of attractiveness that they are working towards. SA, KC, and WH were already on CW shows, and it placed their names in the immediate circle of hires for a new CW show (even though, I guess you could say that they were originally hired for their looks for their original jobs on the network) before they even auditioned or even offered the job. CH was hired because of his reputation on Teen Wolf to get that audience to watch. CL was probably hired because her stunt abilities, which makes her a better bang for a buck for an actor, along with her probable alright chemistry test with SA. EBR was hired as a day player from local Vancouver talent (literally a very cheap way to hire actors, saving money by hiring local talent as well as only paying her for her 1-2 day shoot). Carlos or Ciara were hired with these being their first real tv jobs also probably because of their low experience (which allows them to be paid considerably less)

 

Most of it comes from convenience to me, even though making sure that these actors are easy on the eyes is definitely an important aspect in choosing to hire them. 

[Velocity23]

Oh i do too. But she seems to have quite a resume of appearences on shows.

 

One could also say Willahs role on Arrow is also her big role as Thea Queen. I would consider her previous roles in OC, GG to be quite minor. But she is well known to the cW crowd.

[nksarmi]

Oddly enough, none of the actors/actresses on these shows bother me (and yes I'm including Hawkgirl and JAX).  But that's probably because as someone who writes for a living (business writer), I tend to put more of the blame on the writing than the acting.  I mean, any time I want to be critical of someone - I step back and consider the material and think "could someone else have sold that better?"  In a couple of instances, the answer might be a slight yes, but most of the time - the answer is a resounding "no" for me.

 

What I am actually impressed with is how many of these actors/actresses make me like characters who on paper - aren't really all that likable.  I mean, I truly believe that the actors of these shows improve the writing and I'm not really sure what more we can ask of them.

Edited January 31, 2016 by nksarmi

[kismet]

Oh i do too. But she seems to have quite a resume of appearences on shows.

 

One could also say Willahs role on Arrow is also her big role as Thea Queen. I would consider her previous roles in OC, GG to be quite minor. But she is well known to the cW crowd.

Well I had no idea who SA or KC were when ARROW premiered... but I knew who WH was.... It helps that I watched OC. But never saw an episode of GG in my life. I guess that was the blackhole of my age group. I was young enough to watch the OC, but then was in that the CW is below me snotty age that I didn't want to watch GG when it was in its prime.

 

That being said, I have always made an exception for special shows on the CW, guess GG just wasn't special  enough for me. And now, I'm still young but old enough to realize I don't care what network a show I like is on.

Edited January 31, 2016 by kismet

[Velocity23]

I knew of KC (everybody kept saying how great she is and then i saw her in the first episode and wanted to smack people). And i watched OC, so knew that Willa from there. But had no idea who Stephen was (i never watched TVD).

[Sakura12]

CL was initially told she didn't have the right look for the CW, which was code for they didn't think she was skinny enough. I'm guessing they then watched her parkour videos and realized they were supposed be casting a a super hero and called her back. 

 

KC was the only one I knew prior to Arrow. I never watched the OC (and I was in the right age group, I was too busy watching Buffy). I stopped watching TVD after season one so I never saw SA in it. KC was the original and much better Ruby on Supernatural. She was good in that but then again she didn't have a big part and it played to her strengths. She is really miscast in Arrow. It's not even that she's not fit enough, she is. It's the acting that's the problem. She's not believable in this type of role. She's in a comic book show and I don't think she's embracing that part of it. 

[bijoux]

I thought SA was on 90210 prior to Arrow. I think David Rappaport mentioned that. He was on TVD as well?

Whoa, who did DR play on The West Wing? I'm drawing a blank.

As for CL not being skinny enough for the CW, I don't think she's at all heftier than any of the other actresses in the Flarrowverse.

[AyChihuahua]

KC was definitely fine in Supernatural. She plays bitchy and bitter well. 

 

SA was in like two episodes of TVD. If you don't remember him it's because he wasn't all that memorable. He just played a jerk werewolf. I think he was more memorable in New Girl, but I didn't realize that was the same guy until someone told me. 

 

I knew Willa from The OC. (I may be the only person who liked the last season the most...loved the sort of crazy girl with the main guy. I found them adorable together.) 

 

I don't think Barrowman is particularly good in Arrow. He was decent in S1, although I found a good bit of his dramatic scenes to be pretty overwrought. I preferred Colin's acting in those father/son scenes. Since then he's just waaaaaaay too cheesy, plus I think his "kidding on the square" lustful feelings for SA come through too much.

 

Susannah Thompson would have been one of those "Hey, it's that guy" actors for me. CH was terribad in Teen Wolf, so he was a negative for me when he came on, although I ended up loving Roy. I couldn't have picked Colin Salmon out of a lineup.

 

I like action movies and shows, so for me the draw was pretty much hot guy jumping over things and beating dudes up. I ended up loving Oliver fairly quickly. I think some early S1 episodes are underrated. Oliver and Digg have a couple really funny early interactions. My personal favorite is in 1.3 with Digg's "I guess I'll be watching you pee from now on," followed by quite a long and hilarious pause from Oliver. (Oh, I had zero idea who DR was, either.) So for me it was the premise of the show, followed by some character interactions, that got me interested, not any particular actor.

Edited January 31, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[jaytee1812]

I think DR has like three scenes in the Election Day episodes in season 7 of The West Wing. He plays Teddy one of the Santos campaign team.

[bijoux]

I think DR has like three scenes in the Election Day episodes in season 7 of The West Wing. He plays Teddy one of the Santos campaign team.

Thanks. I really don't remember much of the Santos era.

[Starfish35]

Yeah, I've never thought Barrowman was that good of an actor. He was fine on Doctor Who, but I tried a few episodes of Torchwood, and there was just waaaaay too much scenery chewing. I mostly haven't minded him on Arrow - the melodramatic villain suits his acting style. But yes, it's kind of an acquired taste.

[Sakura12]

As for CL not being skinny enough for the CW, I don't think she's at all heftier than any of the other actresses in the Flarrowverse.

 

I think it's because CL has an athletic body type (her abs are just as ripped as SA's) and they look for skinny model types. KC and WH fit that body more than CL does. 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Sakura12

[wingster55]

I'm not going to claim Caity Lotz is the best actress in the world, but I thought she did very well with some of the dramatic stuff they gave her to handle in season two, particularly in scenes with PB and KL. The scene with Sara and her father in the Clocktower in League of Assassins was one that stands out to me as being particularly emotionally impacting.

I'd give credit to her scene partners for that.

 

Since some have ranked (all in order imo):

Level 1: Susanna

Level 2: Candice, Willa, Melissa, Callista, Jenna

Level 3: Katie, Caity, Emily, 

Level 4: Shantel, Ciara, Danielle

 

Level 1: Jesse Martin, David Harewood, Tom Cavanagh, John Barrowman, Garber

Level 2: Colin Donnell, David Ramsey, Grant Gustin, Stephen Amell, Guy who plays Winn, Guy who plays Maxwell Lord

Level 3: Jimmy Olsen, 

Edited January 31, 2016 by wingster55

[nksarmi]

Oh my word, I watch so little television that I think the only two people I've known from any of these shows (ahead of time) are Jesse Martin from Law and Order and Calista Flockhart (and I didn't really watch Allie McBeal - I just know who she is).  I and I did see the Twilight movies so I know the guy who plays Maxwell Lord, but I don't think I would have ever made that connection.

 

Maybe coming in with zero expectations helps.

[Starfish35]

I'd give credit to her scene partners for that.

I wouldn't, not entirely. Not that PB and KL aren't great, but KC has done dramatic scenes with PB, such as the scene at the end of Broken Dolls, and I thought they were not so good. That scene in particular I thought was way overacted, and felt fake to me. And KL acted her heart out in Restoration, and KC gave her nothing back. She sleepwalked through nearly that entire episode. A scene partner can't always rescue a scene. I personally think CL deserves some credit. I also think she did a decent job differentiating between the different versions of Sara she played that season.

[AyChihuahua]

I love this reasoning: When CL does well in a scene, it's all due to her scene partners. When she sucks, it's all her fault, regardless of her scene partner.

 

When KC does well in a scene, it's all due to her abilities. When KC sucks in a scene, is that also her scene partner's fault? And when she sucks in an action scene, it's the stunt people's fault. If KC and CL are both in a scene and they both suck, I guess that's CL's fault, while KC's doing the best with the crap she's served. When both do well, it's obviously all due to KC's abilities, despite that terrible CL trying to drag her down.

 

I'd love to have a job in which everything I'm involved with that goes badly is somebody else's fault, and everything I'm involved with that goes well is entirely due to my abilities.

Edited January 31, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I wouldn't even bother to tier the male actors because I feel like in their performances, they are mostly about the same. Yes Garber, Cavanagh, Barrowman & Martin are better overall actors, but as for the characters they portray in the Flarrowverse they are on par with the other less seasoned male actors who bring a lot to their characters. I'm not sure I would even be watching Arrow or Flash without SA & GG. I definitely would not be watching Flash without GG. They make their characters better. The only 3 male actors that really struggle to keep up I think are Cisco, Jax & Hawkman.

[wingster55]

I love this reasoning: When CL does well in a scene, it's all due to her scene partners. When she sucks, it's all her fault, regardless of her scene partner.

 

I didn't say she was good...I said the scene worked because of who she was opposite of. (Yes I did just end that with a preposition) 

When you have two actors with the same limited capabilities it doesn't come off that well (such as KC with CL, even if imo KC is better) 

[looptab]

I love how this ranking discussion comes up at least once a month... :)

[statsgirl]

I know SA was on Private Practice because I hate-watched it but I don't remember him at all   Violet briefly dates a hunky guy in a scenario that never would have happened in real life (just as Bailey would not be attracting guys that attractive on Grey's Anatomy) but I remember nothing about the character at all.

 

I think casting SA and GG as Oliver and Barry respectively really made the two shows.  They both are perfect for anchoring them.

 

 

Since some have ranked (all in order imo):

Level 1: Susanna

Level 2: Candice, Willa, Melissa, Callista, Jenna

Level 3: Katie, Caity, Emily, 

Level 4: Shantel, Ciara, Danielle

 

Level 1: Jesse Martin, David Harewood, Tom Cavanagh, John Barrowman, Garber

Level 2: Colin Donnell, David Ramsey, Grant Gustin, Stephen Amell, Guy who plays Winn, Guy who plays Maxwell Lord

Level 3: Jimmy Olsen, 

Two thoughts:

First, that all the Level 1 people are 50 or older, which means not only did they have talent to survive this long in the business but also have tons of experience.  They're also the old people who are the first to get canned by the CW.

 

Second, based on Supergirl alone, I think it's also too early to put Jenna Dewar-Tatum in level 2 because she hasn't really been asked to do anything much in terms of acting on the show, unlike Chyler Leigh who has been great both with Kara and with Hank last episode.  (I think when Mechad Brooks is given decent writing, he's good too but the writing for James has been terrible.)

[bijoux]

I know SA was on Private Practice because I hate-watched it but I don't remember him at all   Violet briefly dates a hunky guy in a scenario that never would have happened in real life (just as Bailey would not be attracting guys that attractive on Grey's Anatomy) but I remember nothing about the character at all.

 

I think casting SA and GG as Oliver and Barry respectively really made the two shows.  They both are perfect for anchoring them.

 

I completely agree that they nailed the casting of Oliver and Barry.

 

I watched maybe two episodes of Private Practice, but Violet was played by Amy Brenneman, who's pretty foxy. Why was the scenario of her attracting a hunky younger guy unbelievable?

[jaytee1812]

SA is good when Oliver is an asshole, or he needs to get his shirt off. But all his relationships seem false or dysfunctional because SA has no emotional depth. One of the reasons I don't like the show is it's so awful to see a lovely girl like Felicity trapped in a relationship like that. Also it's awful that young girls could grow up idolising that relationship, or that young boys could think that's the way to behave.

[tv echo]

YMMV - but I think there are more good actors on Arrow than on The Flash.  LoT has a wide, mixed range of acting abilities.  Supergirl has a decent cast, but the lead (MB) is like GG without his charisma.

 

Just looks would not have caused TPTB to change Arrow from an originally envisioned "tripod" (SA, KC, CD) to focus on one main character (SA) - you had to have one actor who really stood out.  He has done a good job of portraying different versions of Oliver (pre-island Ollie, post-island Oliver, PTSD Oliver, lighter Oliver). He's especially good at expressing things with just his face and his eyes. He doesn't overract.

 

Just looks would not have caused Felicity to become a breakout character (and EBR a breakout star) with just her first limited appearance on Arrow - you had to have acting ability, screen charisma, and natural chemistry with the lead actor.  She's since proven that she can do both comedic acting and dramatic acting.

 

DR has been great since Day 1 of Arrow. And so forth with the respect of the Arrow cast.  The only weak link has been KC (again, my opinion).

 

When I watch Arrow, I see a lot of fully fleshed out, flawed, three-dimensional characters who I can believe are real human beings.  When I watch some of the other superhero shows, I often see a lot of two-dimensional (and sometimes cartoony) characters.

 

Tbc, this is just my opinion and I respect that yours may differ.

Edited February 1, 2016 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

SA is good when Oliver is an asshole, or he needs to get his shirt off. But all his relationships seem false or dysfunctional because SA has no emotional depth. One of the reasons I don't like the show is it's so awful to see a lovely girl like Felicity trapped in a relationship like that. Also it's awful that young girls could grow up idolising that relationship, or that young boys could think that's the way to behave.

 

I tend to agree that Oliver shouldn't be anyone's ideal guy, but I disagree that SA has no emotional depth.  Believe it or not - I buy him MORE when he is playing the genuinely nice guy who is puppy-dog, over the moon for the Felicity.  I believe his smiles and the way his eyes light up over her.  In fact, it is their very believable "cuteness" together that allows me to stomach "olicity" at all.

 

Because holy cow is Oliver - on paper - not a good catch.  Oliver needs years of therapy to even begin to be a good catch and that's just to deal with his "time on the island."  I think his playboy ways have been burned out of him, but he still has some very serious issues.  And of course, fundamentally, Oliver just doesn't think or process things like other people.  Oliver thinks he's responsible for this father's death rather than placing the blame on MM where it belongs.  Oliver thought he needed to save Thea from being responsible for killing her "dad" Malcolm - when Malcolm is responsible for killing a father that choose her (Robert) and torturing the only parental figure she had in her teen years (Walter).  And you know, Malcolm mind-raped her into killing Sara and put her in Ra's sites which ultimately led to her ending up in the LP with a fun new blood lust to deal with.  So yea, Oliver good job "saving her soul" with that move.

 

Also, Oliver is dumb.

 

If SA couldn't make me temporarily forget all of that in almost every episode, I don't think I could watch this show.

[foreverevolving]

Well I had no idea who SA or KC were when ARROW premiered... but I knew who WH was.... It helps that I watched OC. But never saw an episode of GG in my life. I guess that was the blackhole of my age group. I was young enough to watch the OC, but then was in that the CW is below me snotty age that I didn't want to watch GG when it was in its prime.

 

That being said, I have always made an exception for special shows on the CW, guess GG just wasn't special  enough for me. And now, I'm still young but old enough to realize I don't care what network a show I like is on.

 

Oh, I watched GG - occasionally though- and I have no recollection of KC what so ever!

I do remember WH from the OC and I remember recognizing her my first viewing, I think one of the reason I stuck with Arrow at first was after seeing Barrowman in a rerun episode and also seeing how nicely build SA was, and how kick ass in a non physical way Felicity was. also DR and ST.

 

 

I know SA was on Private Practice because I hate-watched it but I don't remember him at all   Violet briefly dates a hunky guy in a scenario that never would have happened in real life (just as Bailey would not be attracting guys that attractive on Grey's Anatomy) but I remember nothing about the character at all.

 

I think casting SA and GG as Oliver and Barry respectively really made the two shows.  They both are perfect for anchoring them.

 

do you mean just in show or in real life in general?

Cause I beg to differ! - real life, I don't watch GA to know what happens there, but when I did (like a decade ago!) she was my favorite character.

 

I completely agree that they nailed the casting of Oliver and Barry.

 

I watched maybe two episodes of Private Practice, but Violet was played by Amy Brenneman, who's pretty foxy. Why was the scenario of her attracting a hunky younger guy unbelievable?

Yes!

[SmallScreenDiva]

When I watch Arrow, I see a lot of fully fleshed out, flawed, three-dimensional characters who I can believe are real human beings.  When I watch some of the other superhero shows, I often see a lot of two-dimensional (and sometimes cartoony) characters.

 

I just started watching "Supergirl" and I have to agree about seeing cartoony characters. Almost everyone on Supergirl is either bland or a caricature (the Martian Hunter dude is the exception, IMO). Callista Flockhart's lips and her body twitches distract the heck out of me and Melissa Benoist is sweet but ... yeah, there's nothing else there. I've seen three eps and I just don't see any depth.

 

The Flash has compelling actors in JLM, Tom Cavanaugh, Grant Gustin, even Candice Patton but I can't take The Flash seriously. Barry can do no wrong and there doesn't seem to be a plan for his character growth. 

 

At least on Arrow, even though we keep saying Oliver is dumb, he is learning. Sometimes it feels like he's slower than a baby turtle but considering how messed up he was, I can buy where he is emotionally now and how easily he can regress. It's frustrating, but it's also believable because he is that flawed. 

[AyChihuahua]

Melissa Benoist was so unbelievably bland on Glee that I couldn't believe she got the role as Supergirl. She's still bland.

 

IMO most of the actors on The Flash are FAR better than their writing. DP and the charisma black hole playing Jay Garrick are the major exceptions for me. They both suck.

[hogwash]

The Black Widow SNL skit really warped my opinion on Supergirl. The bumbling, mumbling girl next door stuff is so played out but I liked the 3-4 episodes I've seen. 

[nksarmi]

Supergirl is coming into it's own.  The first couple of episodes were shacky, but I was determined to at least watch it On Demand because I want it to succeed.  But now I really like it. I've come to love Cat, Kara, and Alex.  The guys of the show are the weak spot for me (Hank is excellent though) but I think they are working on fixing that.

[way2interested]

I think the show really started hitting what it might want to be in 106. Red Tornado's look and General Lane aside, that episode brought something different and interesting (Kara's anger and her actually confronting her feelings of her lost planet), and the following episodes kind of help to set up the show as a story about Kara trying to become a hero for inspiration despite her own alienation from this world instead of a gimmicky girl with powers tries to balance this with her normal life plot. These newest episodes still have their ups and downs, but I am interested to see where it goes from here.

 

Sadly, I can't get myself to care about Alex, though. I'm interested when she goes into the field or when she's in scenes with Hank or Lord, but I don't care about her personally. Despite all of the Danvers sisters set-up between Kara and Alex, Kara and Cat is the only real relationship on that show that I care about. Hank has also grown on me (especially with the reveal), and I like his fatherly feelings towards Kara and Alex.

 

It's not anything I love by far, but I do love moments from the show (mostly between Kara and Cat and growth moments for Kara herself like the end of 106).

[statsgirl]

Going by AK's interview with Kevin Smith, I think they are still finding their feet with Supergirl.  It seems like the focus of her Supering has switched from working with Winn and James in the early episodes to almost exclusively with Alex, Hank and the DEO, which makes more sense and gives them more possibilities.  I think MB is good at portraying the geeky Kara as well as Supergirl but it took until the last episode before I saw anything special in Callista Flockhart.

 

 

Supergirl will always be the best of these shows, because neither Arrow nor The Flash have exceptional female characters. Or if they do on Arrow they have to be punished for it. (Disability, addiction, being murdered or being a murderer) The men just gain.

 

The men don't always just gain. Robert and Tommy died, Slade became insane and then a villain because Oliver tried to save his life, Robert died, Diggle lost his brother and then lost him again when he found out how bad he was, Quentin lost his daughter, his marriage, became an addict, lost his daughter again, had to deal with the moral dilemma of feral Sara and then she left again.

 

Sara died (so that Laurel could become the Black Canary) but Thea's and Felicity's crucibles (aka islands) are going to be temporary in order to make them stronger. Thea already is and you could say that Felicity is too although she's still in her wheelchair.

 

The big problem I have with the treatment of women on Arrow is that when the show is done with they, they're killed (Shado, Moira, Sara) while the men get to live,  in ARGUS' prison or Nanda Parbat.

 

I watched maybe two episodes of Private Practice, but Violet was played by Amy Brenneman, who's pretty foxy. Why was the scenario of her attracting a hunky younger guy unbelievable?

I know a number of foxy, smart professional women Violet's age who are single but not by choice.  While I can see a one night stand between Violet and a hunky guy 20 years younger, in real life it suspends disbelief too much for me that he would want a longterm relationship with her especially with Violet's many neuroses.  There are too many equally attractive young women his own age. Maybe if Violet were a truly spectacular women (like Moira, that I could have understood) but she was an emotional and professional trainwreck and Scott Becker could have done so much better.

 

Same with Bailey on Grey's Anatomy.  She may be smart, she may be kickass, but the guys she gets are a function of Shonda Rhimes wish fulfillment.

[bijoux]

Ah, so a lot of it is to do with Violet's character. That I get. Someone with AB's looks and a potential cougar? Well, I could see the attraction from younger guys.

[wingster55]

unlike Chyler Leigh who has been great both with Kara and with Hank last episode.  (I think when Mechad Brooks is given decent writing, he's good too but the writing for James has been terrible.)

 

I knew I forgot someone. 

 

but I disagree that SA has no emotional depth.  Believe it or not - I buy him MORE when he is playing the genuinely nice guy who is puppy-dog, over the moon for the Felicity.  I believe his smiles and the way his eyes light up over her.  In fact, it is their very believable "cuteness" together that allows me to stomach "olicity" at all.

 

...is that the same thing as emotional depth?

 

Just looks would not have caused Felicity to become a breakout character (and EBR a breakout star) with just her first limited appearance on Arrow - you had to have acting ability, screen charisma, and natural chemistry with the lead actor.  She's since proven that she can do both comedic acting and dramatic acting.

 

IMO she hasn't proven any dramatic ability (or at best, very little). She just was more...bright because how dare Laurel (a woman) be unhappy or anything less than 100% perky and upbeat. 

[jaytee1812]

IMO she hasn't proven any dramatic ability (or at best, very little). She just was more...bright because how dare Laurel (a woman) be unhappy or anything less than 100% perky and upbeat.

I like Felicity and I like EBR, but sometimes I feel like some of her popularity comes from the fact she could be shipped with Oliver and wasn't Laurel (Sara would be presumed dead initially). Also sometimes the writing for her does feel like she was created in a nerds wet dream.

I give EBR most of the credit for the fact I like Felicty, because if you want to see that character done badly, look at Patty on The Flash.

[statsgirl]

It's all very subjective but for me there are a number of elements that make up good acting:

 

1.  Does the actor play different roles or always the same one?  For example, Tom Selleck is still playing Magnum, just more right wing and without the sense of humor, while Tom Cavanaugh is barely recognizable as the adorkable character from Snow .  Even Alex Danvers is quite different from Lexie Grey.

 

2.  Can I buy that the person in this role is the real character?   The example most brought up is Caity Lotz vs Katie Cassidy but Cynthis A-R was not what John Ostrander envisioned when he created The Wall.

 

3.  Can I feel what the character is feeling, or is it someone mouthing words someone else wrote for them?

 

4.  Does the actor elevate the writing?  Susanna Thompson was remarkable at that as was Manu Bennett for Slade, and Candice Patton does a very good job with what they give Iris on The Flash.

 

Grant Gustin has a pretty easy job on The Flash because Barry is a pretty likable guy and I think has a lot in common with GG himself. I doubt there would be a Flash without him.

 

But Stephen Amell has to play a number of different Olivers -- the pre-island douche, the scared kid in the early flashbacks, the traumatized automaton in his first return, the idiot who makes bad decisions because he relies on himself, the happy, in-love Oliver -- and I think he does a pretty good job at differentiating all the different Olivers.  Physically, he's perfect in the role.  In terms of emotional depth, I think of the last scene with Moira when Oliver found out that the baby had died.

 

Can he act?  The graveyard scene in the season opener could be a litmus test. SA had no idea who was in the grave.  Did you buy Oliver's feelings?

 

EBR has always been able to make me feel what Felicity is feeling, whether it's the amusement at Oliver's lies, the admiration for his physical body, the understanding and acceptance of his fallibility, or her fears dealing with her new condition.  And wow does she elevate the material.

 

Also sometimes the writing for her does feel like she was created in a nerds wet dream.

She's also a very good role model for those girls (women?) who were smart but not popular, never quite fit in, didn't really have the self-esteem they should have.  She's a reminder that you don't have to put on leather and a mask to do good.

 

I think part of the appeal of Felicity is that she's someone you'd really like to meet in person and hang out with, and I think that's good acting.

Edited February 1, 2016 by statsgirl

[GreatAtBoats]

That's definitely a YMMV thing. I wouldn't be able to stand someone like Felicity in real life.

[jaytee1812]

 She's also a very good role model for those girls (women?) who were smart but not popular, never quite fit in, didn't really have the self-esteem they should have.  She's a reminder that you don't have to put on leather and a mask to do good.

Those girls wouldn't look at Felicity as being one of them, she looks and dresses like a model. I think that is the basis of the character but it doesn't work. But especially with the goth Felicity flashbacks they tell young girls they have to wear short skirts and heels to be successful and accepted.

[dtissagirl]

I'm in STEM and my skirts are pretty short*.

* But also today for example it was 117F at noon, so wearing clothes is like a health hazard, hence: SHORT.

[dtissagirl]

I don't wear heels because I don't need them [i'm super tall], but I also understand that nobody on TV looks or dresses like real people, which isn't a Felicity problem as much as it's a Hollywood is a shitty place problem.

They revamped Felicity's wardrobe when they gave her a flashy [albeit terribad] job, so they at least tried to make it diegetic. But I also know this is a show on the CW, and they like their lady characters to dress a certain way. I'm willing to handwave that.

[lemotomato]

Felicity dressed down when she was an IT girl in season 1. In seasons 2-4 she's an executive (assistant, VP, and CEO) and her wardrobe changed accordingly. I work in biotech and most of the women that don't actually work in the lab-- admins, HR, executives, finance-- dress like Felicity does, in heels and dresses/dress pants.

I'm trying really hard to ignore the implication that STEM women are supposed to dress and look certain way.

Edited February 1, 2016 by lemotomato

[Guest]

Hmm. Didn't know we could use a character's wardrobe as a reason to hate on her. 

 

Seriously though, of all the things wrong with Arrow and the characters, Felicity's dresses are an issue now? Wow. I've lived and learned today.

[dtissagirl]

They revamped all of the ladies' wardrobe from S1 to S2, to fit their new jobs. Felicity got supermodel Executive Assistant, Thea got supermodel Nightclub Owner, Laurel got supermodel Assistant District Attorney.

[thegirlsleuth]

As a dress wearer, I love Felicity's kicky little dresses. I think they did want to up Felicity's sex appeal, but I also think there may be a blocking reason: In situations where it is just her, Amell and Ramsey, she's so short she needs heels to even be in the same frame.

[apinknightmare]

She just was more...bright because how dare Laurel (a woman) be unhappy or anything less than 100% perky and upbeat.

Felicity's popularity didn't have anything to do with Laurel. It was because she was the ONE character on the show who wasn't miserable, and could be light and happy. They needed someone like that desperately. If they had planned her character from the beginning, she likely would've been miserable too.

[Guest]

No-one hated on the goddess Felicity. A few posters pointed her wardrobe is not entirely realistic.

Laurel can be called a drunk, a whore, a dreadful daughter and sister and god knows what else, but god forbid someone criticise Felicity's entirely unrealistic wardrobe.

 

Not sure why you're making comparisons. Who bought up Laurel here? The comparison is irrelevant.  

 

And I've never once seen Laurel called a whore but okay. Terrible sister, yes. Whore? No.

 

And IMO, yes, it is weird to criticize Felicity's 'unrealistic' wardrobe when we're on a show that occasionally features metahumans. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by Guest

[GirlvsTV]

This is a show where Oliver goes out vigilante-ing with his arms exposed, LL wears fingerless gloves (and 500+ useless buckles), Digg fights in a helmet that leaves the entire back of his head exposed and Thea lounges around the loft in sparkly hammer pants (and fights with a bunch of random strings/laces hanging everywhere) so, Felicity wearing heels and dresses (with her hair pulled back most of the time *cough*Laurel*cough*) while she sits vigilante-ing on her computers is probably one of the more realistic approaches to a character's wardrobe on Arrow.

PS - I love all of her clothes this season. Like, get in my closet for real.

PPS - I work in IT.

[jaytee1812]

I think the point being made is mildly criticising Felicity's wardrobe is described as hating on her. I don't see any posts hating on Felicity, in fact it's more those in charge getting the blame.

I assume the comparison to Laurel was made because she's on the same show, and frankly the abuse both character and the actress playing her are what could definitely be called hated on, and that's acceptable.

Now I get that people defend their favourites, but to jump on people for criticising someone's wardrobe, when a lot worst passes on other characters is a bit much.

[tarotx]

It's one. She wasn't sleeping with Oliver when they were co workers. And their nighttime activity can't be considered work-it's a club ;)

[foreverevolving]

My bug bear with Felicity has always been her wardrobe. I know lots of women in STEM careers and no-one dresses like that. And it doesn't suit her personality.

 

 

I'm in STEM and my skirts are pretty short*.

* But also today for example it was 117F at noon, so wearing clothes is like a health hazard, hence: SHORT.

 

 

Didn't we have this conversation like a year ago?

I seem to remember we all somewhat agreed that outfit Do/Don't in STEM and corporate USA also varies by where you are in the states, meaning what's acceptable in the northeast would be considered stuffy and old fashioned in the west, and visa versa.

[nksarmi]

I like Felicity and I like EBR, but sometimes I feel like some of her popularity comes from the fact she could be shipped with Oliver and wasn't Laurel (Sara would be presumed dead initially). Also sometimes the writing for her does feel like she was created in a nerds wet dream.

I give EBR most of the credit for the fact I like Felicty, because if you want to see that character done badly, look at Patty on The Flash.

 

I love Felicity and I don't feel like I ship "olicity."  I don't mind them together, but I really liked him with Sara and I thought Felicity was adorable with Barry.  Honestly, at the end of season three, I was kind of pissed she forgave Oliver so easily and I think if they had done it differently, Felicity and Ray could have worked.  But in the end, they are pairing Oliver and Felicity and the actors make it work (when on paper it so does NOT).