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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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bijoux

bijoux

That Blind Item is definitely about Katie Cassidy, no arguing that. However, that doesn't mean it's right/wrong. That part can be debated until proven right or wrong.

There aren't any other shows where the original female lead's role got reduced as the series progressed? This is an honest question.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

There aren't any other shows where the original female lead's role got reduced as the series progressed? This is an honest question.

 

The only thing I can think of as a recent example is "Gotham" with Barbara Gordon, although I'm not sure her role got reduced as much as altered. 

 

Regarding the BI (wow, you guys have been busy), I'm sure that post is full of embellishments, with information stretched and made to look worse. The one thing that excited me about it is the possibility of KC, if it is her, getting a new show and leaving "Arrow." That would be so welcome. 

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Chaser

Chaser

I don't know about other shows who had the same situation with the series lead, but I think it's the language the person is using that tells people its KC. That is generally how the person refers to KC and The CW. I don't think this site is a big of hers.

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bijoux

bijoux

(edited)

Thank you all for clarifying.

The network he is referring is CW. So i dont think that kind of situation is on any other show on CW.

Right. Almost network. I forgot about that part.

I don't know about other shows who had the same situation with the series lead, but I think it's the language the person is using that tells people its KC. That is generally how the person refers to KC and The CW. I don't think this site is a big of hers.

It's a rather gross, misogynistic way to refer to her, I've got to say. Edited by bijoux
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catrox14

catrox14

What about the Flash? Wasn't Iris West the female lead character and has been largely pushed to the side for Linda Park and now Patty? I don't know ANYTHING about Candice Patton so I can't speak to her character. I was just trying to think of another scenario that is somewhat similar.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

CP is not a child of an actor, which would seem to rule her out. Also I don't really think any part of Iris's role has been given to another character YET. I think they are playing a long game with Barry/Iris, so other relationships are par for the course.

 

But I don't think this BI is based on any actual info, but instead pieced together from this guy's misunderstanding of the situation. I believe he has conflated KC and CL in his mind, and possibly CL and EBR too, and therefore thinks KC is starring in LoT, and the rest follows from there. The BTS stuff he's talking about sounds like a misunderstanding of the situation with CL being killed off in S3 (and the rumors re: KC's unhappiness about the Canary stuff) plus the midseason finale/who's-in-the-grave storyline.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

If she does it isn't in the promo..but even if she does, good for her for supporting her sister.


The promo is badass though, CW does so good at promos in the beginning. If this is a success and has major cast changes each season it will be interesting if they treat it better then Arrow.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

So LL gives Sara her new costume ...

I don't think that's shown specifically in the promo we just see the costume...of course it's hysterical since those cabinets apparently get used for everyone. Barry shows up in 208 and his costume is right next to Green Arrow's...wonder whose costume got Trashed in order for Flash to take the cabinet.
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

The blind item states:

Not only has she rivaled the lead of the show for most media coverage, but she is set to be launched with her own show. She will be the star. That is what she has always wanted and now the new show will revolve around her.

It doesn't say that it will in the same universe (BoP) or even that it's on the same channel.  I can see that the EPs of Flarrowverse would support her on another show because it would solve a number of their problems (Laurel still alive but not on screen).

 

A parallel is Lisa Edelstein, who always wanted to be the co-lead on House, and is now starring in her own show Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce on Bravo.  And there's a number of wanna be networks out there.

 

I think with the right role and good writing, KC could lead a show on a smaller network.  Something like Mistresses.  Laurel really wasn't the right role for her.  And please, no action roles. 

 

That's a really nasty write-up though (the part just before what I quoted).

 

ETA:

But she was the only woman at the TCAs, which was weird.

Not if you look at it as a dress-rehearsal (hee) for their new spin-off with multiple characters and they originally intended Laurel to be in the spot they now have Sara.  SA and GG were there, of course, DR so it wasn't a completely white cast (sorry, but Wentworth Miller looks white to me) and Barrowman because their love for him has no bounds but everyone else was slated for LoT.

Edited by statsgirl
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chaos is welcome

chaos is welcome

(edited)

Remember in last year's crossover they gave Barry a cabinet in lair under verdant. Makes sense to keep it in new (if tpdb remembered if course)

Eta: Sara was everything in that video. Hawks just have me solidly in the nope column though. Shame.

Edited by chaos is welcome
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)

Exactly, so both of them can wear black. And if Laurel doesn't go by the official name of Canary which was Sara's official name in the show, she didn't steal anything, especially when Sara will be going by White Canary. Just like if someone decided to go by Red Arrow, Oliver could still go by Arrow, he doesn't need to add a color to it just because someone else did. Not to mention that Sara didn't exactly equate Canary with being a hero. 

Edited by Primal Slayer
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Remember in last year's crossover they gave Barry a cabinet in lair under verdant. Makes sense to keep it in new (if tpdb remembered if course)

Eta: Sara was everything in that video. Hawks just have me solidly in the nope column though. Shame.

 

None of the promos seem to focus on the Hawks. I wonder that means anything. 

 

Most of the promos heavily feature Sara, which is awesome. Sara is the true Canary in the Flarrowverse.

Edited by Sakura12
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

I'm thinking they aren't part of that much action which the show seems to be wanting to entice the audience with, but we know from the reviews that they seem to play a pretty sizable role. Or since they are connected so much with the overall story of the season they don't want to spoil it. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

It's funny that the reviews say Sara does a lot of fighting, I wonder if most of the big fight scenes will focus on Sara with shadows and things blasting in the background, then a scene for each of the "CGI" heroes, then back to CL kicking everyone's ass. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Does Sara even give a flying fuck what her superhero name is? I never got the impression from her that she was comfortable with the publicity that came with the mask and the alias. It's Laurel who seems to care deeply for the stardom of it all.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

She probably doesn't care. She'd probably just go by Sara if she could. It's more the fact that she choose the name Canary to connect her to her home when she was as far away from it that you can get. She had the pet Canary and saw a Canary while nearly dying from her first drowning. They gave us a reason why Sara goes by that name. She can go by Rainbow Canary for all I care. A Canary is something special to her.

 

Laurel has no in show reason to go by that name, especially now that Sara's alive.  She didn't even name herself or get the name in a heroic way. She only gets the name because of comics.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)

No reason to go by Black Canary? Honoring her sister? Legacy? Pretty good reason to me. Just because Sara is alive again doesn't mean she changes names or anything just as Wally didn't hang up the Flash mantle after Barry came back in the comics. And we still don't know if Q gave it to her or if it was the name floating around the streets.  But hey, I am looking forward to the sisters training together, being able to respect one another and more possible team ups between the two.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Oh, yeah, ITA that the word 'canary' was given to Sara several times over, and not once to Laurel, but I forget: did Sara even refer to herself as the superhero named Canary, in English, rather than just explaining the origins of her Arabic LoA name? Because all I remember is LAUREL saying Sara was 'the Canary' after she saved the kid from the fire... Because the name matters to Laurel, but not to Sara.

I dunno. I just find it hilarity forever that Laurel's all about the superficiality of being a mask, so the name -- and the distinction of being BLACK Canary, while Sara was just the Canary in Laurel's mind -- is super duper important to her. Whereas Sara couldn't care less what people call her. It's amusing to me.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Oh, yeah, ITA that the word 'canary' was given to Sara several times over, and not once to Laurel, but I forget: did Sara even refer to herself as the superhero named Canary, in English, rather than just explaining the origins of her Arabic LoA name? Because all I remember is LAUREL saying Sara was 'the Canary' after she saved the kid from the fire... Because the name matters to Laurel, but not to Sara.

Yeah, in 205 she tells her father that her LoA name means Canary. He then recalls that he gave her the bird when she was a kid.

Sara: It's a good vantage point. You can see the whole city. Like a bird on a wire. Where I was, they have you choose a new name. I chose ta-er sah-fer. It's arabic. For Canary.

Lance: I bought you that Canary when you were ten.

Sara: I was as far from home as you can get, but I never forgot where I came from.

http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=arrow&episode=s02e05

I don't think Sara cares about her code name or even feels remotely comfortable being called a Hero. I expect that LoT will spend some time dealing with Sara's emotional arc, especially post resurrection and Bloodlust. However, I do think the name "Canary" means something to her, both good and bad. "Canary" is both a remembrance of home/family and of the Assassin she became.

I hope to see that duality explored especially as she deals with the concept of time travel and being a "legend" in the future (although somehow I suspect that's a BS line by Rip). I can see Sara trying to figure out both who she is as a person, a teammate ando as a hero/mask. What's her role? What's her future? Can she overcome her past? Is she more than a soulless killer? Can she ever be normal/happy?

I really hope LoT spends some time exploring this for Sara. It applies to all/most of them but she's the only one who's emotional journey that I find fascinating.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Sakura12

Sakura12

Sara never refers to herself as a hero which is why I like her. She doesn't need that glory to do what is right. Laurel, Barry and Ray are always running around trying to get people to call them heroes. For me that takes away from the heroic act. 

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quarks

quarks

She doesn't go around reminding people that she is a hero or trying to be called a hero..

 

She just did in the last episode, reminding Oliver, after he pointed out how bizarre it was to owe Malcolm one, that she helped too.

 

A few episodes previously, she jumped on Oliver for his failure to accept her/support her as Black Canary. During "Al Sah-him," she again made a point of calling herself a hero, saying this to Nyssa, Diggle and Felicity.  These are just a few of the recent examples.

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Trini

Trini

(edited)

We'll see; both Arrow and Flash have smaller casts with regular characters that get forgotten about. The Legends cast is fairly big; some people are going to get the short end.


My best guess would be the two characters without a comic counterpart.

Edited by Trini
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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

She just did in the last episode, reminding Oliver, after he pointed out how bizarre it was to owe Malcolm one, that she helped too.

 

A few episodes previously, she jumped on Oliver for his failure to accept her/support her as Black Canary. During "Al Sah-him," she again made a point of calling herself a hero, saying this to Nyssa, Diggle and Felicity.  These are just a few of the recent examples.

And she did it in a very playful/jokingly manner, saying "hey I helped out to, don't forget" doesn't scream "REMEMBER I AM A HERO!"

 

Jumping on Oliver for not accepting her, has nothing to do with her wanting to be viewed as a hero, it's about wanting respect. During Al Sha-him she spent the episode talking about how they help people, she wasn't looking for any accolades. 

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quarks

quarks

We'll see; both Arrow and Flash have smaller casts with regular characters that get forgotten about. The Legends cast is fairly big; some people are going to get the short end.

My best guess would be the two characters without a comic counterpart.

 

I think there's just one character without a comic counterpart, right? Sara?

 

In any case, although I agree that at least two or three characters will end up getting the short end, I don't think having a comic counterpart will have much, if anything, to do with who gets the short end. On Arrow, two of the most prominent cast members don't have comic counterparts (Diggle, created for the show, and Felicity, who really isn't the original comic book character). Moira, a non-comic book character, also had significant focus during season one. Quite a few characters that do have comic counterparts ended up only making brief or minor appearances, or only lasting one season (Dinah Lance, Helena, Dr. Ivo, Fyers, several others.) Meanwhile, over on Flash, the most significant character after Barry has usually been Joe, who doesn't have a comic book counterpart either. Granted, that's mostly because Joe is played by Jesse L. Martin, but that does suggest that Legends of Tomorrow will be taking other factors into consideration when determining what characters will get the most focus in any particular episode.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

That was offered to him and he turned it down? Does he have other projects in the works?

He has 2 movies that are filming for 2016 release and is listed as being in 6 episodes of The X-Files (which probably paid a hell of a lot more than LoT).
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Jax is basically Jason Rusch by renamed because they already used his name in the show, yeah? Does that really count?

I would consider him an original character and not a comic character. Although Firestorm and Stein are comicbook characters.

I wonder, why didn't they just bring the actor that played Jason back?

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Proteus

Proteus

We'll see; both Arrow and Flash have smaller casts with regular characters that get forgotten about. The Legends cast is fairly big; some people are going to get the short end.

My best guess would be the two characters without a comic counterpart.

I don't think there's any way that Sara gets shortchanged. Especially with all the focus she is getting in promos.

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