Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Starfish35]

I think if Sara does show up (and I'm skeptical personally) it will be just a cameo. Something like picking up coffee at Jitters and meeting Kendra. I just feel like there's going to be too much else going on to have it be be more than that.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

I think if Sara does show up (and I'm skeptical personally) it will be just a cameo. Something like picking up coffee at Jitters and meeting Kendra.

 

Which would be fine with me. I'm not expecting her to be kicking ass on the Flash until the cross over. 

[quarks]

Barry and Team Flash haven't met Sara, but as Sakura12 pointed out, they do know who she is. 

 

I should point out that I'm not expecting much of an appearance from Sara here - just a cameo similar to the Kendra appearance, enough to give Flash viewers an idea of who she is. And I could easily be wrong.

[dtissagirl]

Caitlin probably knows Sara's DNA pretty well, but that's a terrible hook for a meet up.

Edited November 12, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Sakura12]

I would take just a Sara walking into the coffee shop and passing by Team Flash as a cameo. 

 

However I would rather Kendra be dealing with a difficult customer that doesn't want to pay for his coffee and is saying misogynistic things to her. Sara's next line and makes him pay for the coffee. Then they have a nice female bonding moment. 

 

Caitlin knows Sara's DNA pretty well, but that's a terrible hook for a meet up.

Caitlin's a Scientist, you'd think she'd be super interested in analyzing the DNA of someone that's been resurrected. 

Edited November 12, 2015 by Sakura12

[tv echo]

This article is about Sara exiting Star City at the end of Arrow 406 (to join LoT)...

 

Arrow postmortem: Get the scoop on that abrupt exit
BY NATALIE ABRAMS   Posted November 11 2015 — 9:42 PM EST
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/11/arrow-sara-exit-legends-tomorrow-spoilers

“Sara is grappling with these really big issues,” executive producer Wendy Mericle tells EW. “She’s still going to have the bloodlust and these issues to deal with, so she’s got to go find a different way of handling it. The way that Thea [Willa Holland] has chosen to deal with hers is not going to work for Sara.”
 

“Sara is looking for a purpose,” Lotz says. “She’s been trying to stay away from everyone and everything, but it’s like, then why are you living life if it’s not for relationships with people? What’s the purpose? Sara is looking for a purpose, and that’s what Rip Hunter [Arthur Darvill] offers her.”
 

Of course, this isn’t the first time that Sara has left her family in the dust. After it was discovered that she was still alive, Sara had to return to the League of Assassins… then she came back to Star City only to be killed by Thea… and then she was resurrected via the Lazarus Pits. “They’re used to it by now. ‘Hey, I’m alive, see ya, I’m going off,’” Lotz jokes. “That’s one of those things. She’s a wanderer, she’s a little bit of a gypsy. She has that in her soul where she never quite feels at home. That keeps driving her away. Hopefully they know her well enough that they would be accepting of it.”

[cambridgeguy]

 

I would take just a Sara walking into the coffee shop and passing by Team Flash as a cameo.

Well, Jitters is the only coffee shop in the entire city so she'll probably be stopping in at some point.  However, everybody should know that Barry just got his ass kicked by Zoom so that should warrant a phone call from Ollie or Felicity at the very least.  They could mention Sara in passing (if there's a report of some blond vigilante killing crooks then let us know).

[AyChihuahua]

“Sara is looking for a purpose,” Lotz says. “She’s been trying to stay away from everyone and everything, but it’s like, then why are you living life if it’s not for relationships with people? What’s the purpose?

Good lord they are desperately trying to polish that turd.  She's been trying to stay away from everyone for what, a week since she was re-ensouled?  Probably less?  Keep trying to make her abrupt departure from a city where she has tons of relationships to a different city in which she currently has one relationship make sense, WM. 

 

I do not understand why they didn't just have her leave to avoid her urge to kill Thea.  They make the absolute dumbest plotting decisions a lot of the time.

Edited November 12, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Sakura12]

They always have a simple solution presented to them and they decide to make up a dumber one. Did no one bring that up in the writers meetings? 

 

Writer 1: "So how do we get Sara to leave for legends?

All the writers: "hmmm"

Writer 2: "How about she leaves so she doesn't hurt Thea?"
Writer 3: "Nah, I don't like that idea"

Writer 4: "How about Sara leaves everyone again to go find herself, for reasons?"

Everyone: "Perfect"

[KirkB]

Yeah, when my cable listing said Sara's blood lust caused problems for the team I figured that meant she was going to attack Thea or be distracted by being around her and that would be part of the reason she left. It would make perfect sense. The show also seems to be trying to change its own narrative. They said before Thea has this blood lust raging because the pit makes you want to seek revenge on the one who killed or hurt you, and she can't because Ra's is already dead. But Thea is still alive and yet after getting her soul back Sara has no problem being around Thea, but rather has a blood lust raging out of control because of the pit rather than not having a chance at revenge. 

 

Instead of being on the team Sara could have been alone in their apartment when she is visited by a guy named Rip, and though she doesn't tell the others he was the reason she decided to leave.

[kismet]

I think if Sara does show up (and I'm skeptical personally) it will be just a cameo. Something like picking up coffee at Jitters and meeting Kendra. I just feel like there's going to be too much else going on to have it be be more than that.

Agree it will be a cameo at most until she gets a bigger role in crossover. But I do wonder though if my speculation is going to be true that SL is the one that finds out about OQ's BabyMama. Because fun times and Jitters seems to be quite the hotspot for long lost parental dramatic reveals.

[kismet]

They always have a simple solution presented to them and they decide to make up a dumber one. Did no one bring that up in the writers meetings? 

 

Writer 1: "So how do we get Sara to leave for legends?

All the writers: "hmmm"

Writer 2: "How about she leaves so she doesn't hurt Thea?"

Writer 3: "Nah, I don't like that idea"

Writer 4: "How about Sara leaves everyone again to go find herself, for reasons?"

Everyone: "Perfect"

I'm actually okay with that reasoning because I think it fits SL character, like CL explains in the interview. SL is a free spirit and has a gypsy like wanderlust. Also, it doesn't restrict the LoT writers to have to deal with bloodlust. It gives the writers as semi-clean slate to write their own story. Which I think is better overall for SL & the LoT show.

[Sakura12]

Sara would probably be the best to find out about Oliver's baby mama because she wouldn't be all judgey about it. She'd call him and let him know. 

[jaytee1812]

I have a question for you fine people. I watch The Flash but not Arrow, and I'm intending to watch LoT, am I going to be completely confused with both The Flash and LoT at points if I haven't watch Arrow?

Also, I'd pay good money for an earth 2 spin off where Jamey Sheridan is Green Arrow.

[kismet]

Random thoughts on the Berlanti universe -

 

-Do we owe BR a thank you (or eye roll) for getting Bulletproof Coffee a shout-out on Supergirl?

 

-Also as overly melodramatic that we had to meet Jimmy Olsen's ex-gf so soon, was anybody else excited that it was Jenna Dewan-Tatum? Primarily, because I think she is talented, but I also wonder if it could lead to a cameo by Channing Tatum.

 

-I believe the reason that BA looks older is that they are letting GG have some facial hair on the Flash. It's not OQ/SA level scruff. But it is visible.

 

- CP is doing a good job with Iris, but I agree that the show is failing her. It's not LL proportion yet, but it's heading down that road if they can't find a way to integrate her into the main plot. Perhaps they will need some media presence to control the story about the E2 characters invasion.

[Chaser]

I have a question for you fine people. I watch The Flash but not Arrow, and I'm intending to watch LoT, am I going to be completely confused with both The Flash and LoT at points if I haven't watch Arrow?

Also, I'd pay good money for an earth 2 spin off where Jamey Sheridan is Green Arrow.

Unless something goes on with Ray in this upcoming episode, I doubt it.

[kismet]

I have a question for you fine people. I watch The Flash but not Arrow, and I'm intending to watch LoT, am I going to be completely confused with both The Flash and LoT at points if I haven't watch Arrow?

I think it all really depends on what they do with LoT & its too soon to figure that out. As of now, you don't really miss much if you only watch one show. There are a few character things that you might miss, but its usually not too critical. I think you definitely have to watch the crossovers though, especially this season. They have explicitly said that they are one story. I also think the flipping of the geographical location was intentional to get people to watch it. Because if ARROW takes place in CC, I can't imagine how that won't influence CC in any way.

[Sakura12]

If you don't watch Arrow than the only LoT character you haven't met is Sara. That's why I'm hoping she shows on Flash in the next episode. Team Flash needs to meet her officially, not just have a vial of her blood. 

[kismet]

I have seen Perd Hapley reporting the news on Arrow, Scandal, Parks & Recs, and I feel like FLASH  too... Does this mean we could get some crazy crossover between Shondaland & Flarrowverse with a side of Leslie Knope??? Crazy thoughts.

 

I realize its probably just stock casting but let me have my crazy dream list crossover. :)

[calliope1975]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jemimaskelley/will-the-real-perd-hapley-please-stand-up#.bx86PxRRA

 

Perd Hapley links so many universes together. I'm just saying Spencer from PLL and The Rock's character from the Fast movies could both show up on Arrow and it would work. 

[apinknightmare]

I need Channel 52 to add "Ya Herd with Perd" to its midday programming.

[Starfish35]

I think he's been on Supergirl too.

[kismet]

I think he's been on Supergirl too.

Thanks! That's where I saw him too!! To much binge watching, to keep it all straight sometimes, but he is totally a link between universes.

[BkWurm1]

I have a question for you fine people. I watch The Flash but not Arrow, and I'm intending to watch LoT, am I going to be completely confused with both The Flash and LoT at points if I haven't watch Arrow?

 

Chances are that they will reintroduce all the characters on LoT but in case they don't...

 

The Ray that showed up on The Flash was probably a bit more annoying than the one that will be on LoT, they did a much better job writing him after he appeared on Flash, otherwise, that was him.  About the only background info you'd need was that he decided to build his suit after he and his fiancé were attacked by a super soldier (end of Arrow season two - we only hear about it in season three) and he wasn't able to save his fiancé.   Pretty much immediately after his crossover to Flash, he figured out that Felicity wasn't in love with him and let her go but they remain friends and Oliver is cordial.  Ray also shrinks now.  That's pretty much all there is to know.   

 

Sara is so much more complex but anything explained in writing probably won't translate as well as seeing it, so just know that she's awesome and broken and lethal and vulnerable.  She could probably beat Oliver in a hand to hand fight and Diggle.  At the same time.  (The actress is able to do a lot of her own stunt fighting)

 

She believes no woman should suffer at the hands of men..  She kept a promise to a dying man who she only knew for an hour to look in after his daughter and bonded with her like she was her little sister.  While she was away and presumed dead by her family (long story) she fell in love with the Daughter to the Demon who saved her and became a member of the League of Assassins (join or die)  but she left when she could no longer stand the killing and was willing to die rather than go back.  She and Oliver dated for a while but broke up with him when she realized they weren't right for each other. (She was struggling with killing if needed, Oliver was doing his no kill thing, she decided he needed to be with 'some that could harness the light inside him aka IMO they were too much alike) Still she unselfishly traded in her freedom from the LoA in to get their help so Starling City would survive the super soldier attack.   

 

She and Laurel (her sister) were estranged (Rather than a hug, when Laurel found out she was alive, she threw a wine glass at her and told her to get out)  They did the forgive and forget and were getting closer.  She was murdered at the beginning of season 3 in a ridiculously complicated and convoluted plot.  Laurel decided to get into the mask thing like her sister had.   A year later, Laurel heard about the Lazarus Pits and long story short, Sara is back alive but the side effect from the pit is being afflicted with a blood lust for killing that she hasn't learned to control (which traumatizes her) so she's off trying to figure that out.  Her mom lives in Central City so maybe she'll show up in a cameo.  Crosses fingers.      

 

I mentioned that Sara was awesome, right? 

Edited November 13, 2015 by BkWurm1

[wingster55]

If you don't watch Arrow than the only LoT character you haven't met is Sara. That's why I'm hoping she shows on Flash in the next episode. Team Flash needs to meet her officially, not just have a vial of her blood.

But how would that even come about?

As for Iris..she could be inserted in a he main plot more..but she needs to have her own story which is just as important as what Barry gets into.

And if Nyssa can't beat Oliver..could Sara?

Edited November 13, 2015 by wingster55

[BkWurm1]

Well, we never saw Oliver beat her and she trained in the Arrow lair fighting both Oliver and Diggle at the same time. She took out the LoA peeps sent to bring her home pretty easily (common thugs and higher up dude) but when she faced Nyssa, she had already taken poison and I can't even remember if they fought or not. But with the poison, it wouldn't mean anything anyway. Ra's chose her to bring back Malcolm and Malcolm was worried enough about her when he couldn't bribe her that he drugged Thea and snuck her in to kill Sara since she was someone Sara knew and trusted. Tells me the that Malcolm wasn't willing to test her in a fair fight so yeah, I think in just hand to hand and bow staff she could take Oliver, but Oliver has other tricks that might put him over the top.

Edited November 13, 2015 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

"DC'S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW" SHOWRUNNER FEELS AT HOME WITH FLAWED HEROES
Albert Ching   22 hours ago
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-showrunner-feels-at-home-with-flawed-heroes

Will the Lazarus Pit continue to affect Sara throughout the season?

Her journey's really interesting, because it really is a struggle for her to reclaim her humanity. We were just talking about Leonard (Captain Cold) and Rory (Heart Wave) -- those guys have lost their humanity by being villains, but she's had hers stripped from her. For her, it's about trying to find human connection. It's a very human-scale story. It's an action, superhero series, but I think it should be relatable even for people who don't get into people with costumes and powers and the like.

 

In terms of scale, "Arrow" is very urban and "Flash" is mostly grounded in one location -- how different is this?

This is real different. It takes place on a spaceship that travels through time, and arrives in different eras and locations. It is sort of divided into chapters that are serialized. It's not episodic, bad guy of the week, it is two or three or four episodes in a time period....
*  *  * 

Edited November 13, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This article ranks Oliver at #6 and Felicity at #3 when it comes to GG's chemistry with characters in the Flarrow universe (Patty Spivot is #1 and Iris is #4)...

 

Ranking Grant Gustin’s Chemistry With Everybody On ‘The Flash’
by shaunna murphy 11/12/2015
http://www.mtv.com/news/2426300/grant-gustin-flash-chemistry/

6 Oliver Queen

The bromance is so strong with these two, it’s a shame they’re not together more. The whole “Flash” squad (especially Cisco) brings out a lighter side of Oliver, and it’s a blast watching Barry fanboy over his super-handsome, super-rich (sometimes), and super-cool superhero big brother.

*  *  *

3 Felicity Smoak

Emily Bett Rickards also has Grant Gustin Chemistry Syndrome, so it’s only natural that every interaction she has with him on those “Flarrow” crossovers is electric. Even if they don’t end up together (and duh, Olicity is canon now so they won’t), it’s great to watch them work together as insanely charismatic and likable friends.

Edited November 13, 2015 by tv echo

[jaytee1812]

If you don't watch Arrow than the only LoT character you haven't met is Sara. That's why I'm hoping she shows on Flash in the next episode. Team Flash needs to meet her officially, not just have a vial of her blood.

I have watched early seasons of Arrow so I know who Sara is. I actually don't watch because I hate Oliver (and Stephen Amell) and Felicity and Sara annoy me. But I'm hoping the fabulous Victor Garber, Arthur Darvill and Ciara Renee can outweigh Sara's annoyingness and there won't be much of Oliver and Felicity.

[Morrigan2575]

Have to disagree on that list.  1-3 Should have been Joe, Wells, Henry and Felicity at 4.

[FurryFury]

Patty Spivot? Really? 

 

1-3 Should have been Joe, Wells, Henry and Felicity at 4.

 

Not sure about Henry, but otherwise, yeah, kinda like that. Still think that Felicity's the only female he had decent romantic chemistry, all others are very meh.

[wingster55]

I'd put both Wests in the top spots

[AyChihuahua]

Henry makes me uncomfortable. 

 

I would have ranked Oliver higher.

[wonderwall]

For me it would've been: 

 

1) Joe 2) Wells 3) Oliver 4) Felicity 5) Cisco 6) Iris 7) Caitlin

 

I haven't seen Patty or Linda in action so I couldn't tell where I'd place them...

[jaytee1812]

Patty was number 1, Patty? They have no chemistry what so ever.

[apinknightmare]

I think his chemistry is best with Joe and Wells.

[kismet]

I like his chemistry with Patty. But I would not have put it on the top. I also would have put Oliver higher and I would have put FS lower. I really do think GG has really good parental chemistry. I used to turn in soley  for Barry/Joe & Barry/Henry. My list probably would have been a little different.

 

My list probably would have been - Joe, Wells, Patty, Henry, Oliver, Iris, Felicity.

[Morrigan2575]

Patty Spivot? Really?

Not sure about Henry, but otherwise, yeah, kinda like that. Still think that Felicity's the only female he had decent romantic chemistry, all others are very meh.

I thought GG did some of his best acting with JWS in S1. Granted that's not chemistry but I certainly loved their scenes. Edited November 13, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[nksarmi]

I still like Barry best with Felicity, but he and Iris have had some nice moments.  I think GG and the actress who plays Patty are cute together, but I don't like Barry with Patty if that makes any sense.

 

Someone on the Flash boards said that Barry had the best chemistry with Cold and I gotta admit, I can see that. :)

Edited November 13, 2015 by nksarmi

[Starfish35]

I like Barry's chemistry with Patty. I think they're adorable.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Starfish35

[SmallScreenDiva]

1-3 Should have been Joe, Wells, Henry and Felicity at 4.

 

Yup, then I'd put Oliver 5, Cisco 6 and maaaaaybe Patty 7. 

[wingster55]

^ What about Iris?

[BkWurm1]

^ What about Iris?

I think the biggest issue about Barry and Iris's chemistry (apart from her for a long time thinking of him as her brother) is they don't get enough "normal" interaction.  Not enough character beats that aren't about someone or thing else.  When he rescued her from that high rise while she was snooping around and they were both so happy and sparkly afterwards, I could see the chemistry potential but most of the time I feel like they aren't even in the same scene even when they are.  They too often are around each other  or talking at each other without being with each other or really communicating and connecting., if that makes sense? 

 

So potential, but not tapped often enough to rise even to the 4th place spot on any list I'd make. 

 

Just to expand on what I mean, it's like when Iris would come to the station and she and Barry would smile and chit chat but Iris was always there for some other reason.  Barry was just there. She wasn't usually there to see Barry or talk to him so it to me usually felt like she was happy enough to see him, but was more focused on what came next or if she was asking a question, focused on the answer, not on Barry.  

 

Or like in the coffee house the first time she see's Oliver.  She talks to Barry but boy oh boy is she not focused on Barry.  It was like that when she would share whatever was going on in her life.  She was sharing with Barry but wasn't hung up on getting a certain look or reaction back from him. 

 

In contrast, when Patty is talking to Barry, even on some flimsy pretext, she is totally focused on Barry and his reactions and what he thinks and feels.  It makes sense.  He's new and she's crushing on him.  For Iris, she knows him like the raggedy t-shirt she might wear to bed.  It can still be her favorite but it doesn't make her that excited and the difference shows.   

Edited November 14, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

Or like in the coffee house the first time she see's Oliver.  She talks to Barry but boy oh boy is she not focused on Barry.  It was like that when she would share whatever was going on in her life.  She was sharing with Barry but wasn't hung up on getting a certain look or reaction back from him.   

In her defense, OQ was in the room and on her list ;) And those arms.... who could really look at BA? I bet even Patty would be a little distracted for a minute.

 

But I know what you mean about BA & IW not spending enough casual moments together for the sole purpose of them interacting with each other.

[wingster55]

I'm not sure if that's really true. But I think that was a byproduct of the gap they had with Eddie and the secret. This season should have been different with Iris in the know..but ultimately the writers are too in love with two things: Father figures and the trio...both really hurt you the role Iris should have both on the show and in Barry's life.

See the most recent episode. Iris was present when Zoom dragged Barry into Picture News..why wasn't she in the scene when he was resting in Star Labs with everyone?

Also doesn't help that a much promoted scene was cut between the two in 2.04

[Starfish35]

Yeah they did WestAllen a huge disservice by having them grow up together. It's great for the Barry/Joe relationship but not so great for the Barry/Iris relationship.

I'm not anti-WestAllen, and there's been a few moments I thought they had chemistry. The rooftop conversation between Iris and the Flash before she found out. The kiss before Barry changed the timeline. The rescue a few episodes ago. Each time I think.....that. Give me more of that and I could really get on board with this ship. But they don't give them enough of those kind of moments for me to really care that much. In fact this season it feels like they aren't really giving them much interaction at all.

Barry/Patty on the other hand is cute and (mostly) uncomplicated, and I really like that in a pairing. And I personally think they have worlds of chemistry. I don't expect it to last (and right now I'm just kind of hoping she doesn't end up getting fridged). But I'm enjoying it for however long it lasts.

I don't really understand what they're doing with Iris this season though. I thought having her find out Barry's secret would help her not be so much on the fringe of things, and it has helped some, but it still feels kind of like she's still drifting around the outside. I honestly thought we would be seeing her react to Eddie's death more. But it's been six episodes and basically nothing. I think Candice Patton is a very talented actress. They just really aren't giving her much to work with.

[wingster55]

Yeah they did WestAllen a huge disservice by having them grow up together. It's great for the Barry/Joe relationship but not so great for the Barry/Iris relationship.

I don't agree..that was a good move to me. The problem was lack of follow through on it.

I think also a problem is that the show won't provide character moments outside of the episode (or season) main plot. That's why I'd love an episode (on both shows) where there's no action scenes. Let's just have characters (mainly Iris) frakking talk and be given a pov

Patty seems very generic to me. Most Mary Sue of the Flarrow verse.

Edited November 14, 2015 by wingster55

[kismet]

IDK, the growing-up together is a little too creepy to me for the romantic feelings to develop while you are being raised as quasi-siblings. I think it would have worked better if they had BA figure out he might like IW as more than a sister/friend after some time apart, maybe in like s3 or so when we could have seen a spark developing over multiple seasons. But now it feels a little quasi incestual, especially the way Joe seems to talk about it.

 

But I do agree that the problem for the show is more a lack of character development and follow-through. A lot of the show is plot and when they do have a character moment they undo it by some wacky science thing. But it keeps the show fun & light, so I guess TPTB think the formula works.

Edited November 14, 2015 by kismet

[Starfish35]

I don't agree..that was a good move to me. The problem was lack of follow through on it.

I disagree. From the first time I heard about Barry and Iris growing up in the same house, I thought "wow, that is a really really stupid thing to do." I don't think it's an insurmountable issue, but I do think it's an issue that was unnecessary to introduce. Plus it is always easier for an audience to relate to a pairing when they see it from its beginning. The first meet, the getting to know each other, etc. Barry and Iris have years and years of history that we have no idea about. Perhaps if they would show us some of that, it might help, but so far we've only gotten a couple of glimpses of that.

I do agree that Iris needs a point of view of her own. And they need to figure out a way to integrate her into the core group that doesn't feel tacked on. Developing relationships between her and Caitlin and Cisco would be a good place to start, but they don't seem to be interested in doing that.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Starfish35

[wingster55]

"Plus it is always easier for an audience to relate to a pairing when they see it from its beginning. The first meet, the getting to know each other, etc. "

Not always. Some of my favorite pairings include people who were already acquainted...or even together. Like best couple of all time, Eric and Tami.