S08.E08: Frank's Northern Southern Express

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Frank starts a booming import-export business. Fiona considers moving into her own place after Ford shows her a side of Chicago she's never seen. Meanwhile, Lip interviews new sponsors, Ian confronts a pastor trying to "pray the gay away" and Debbie deals with being unemployed while looking for a way to afford school and raise Franny.

Promo:

Clip:

[talktalk]

O Canada! 

[sunflower]

I really don't like how they're using Liam.  I know he's just a kid who can't really have a full SL, but having him act servile to Debbie, the picture taking, and as Frank's little helper is not only boring, but not a good look.  

I was encouraged by Lip's story with the sponsor, because I've thought the same thing.  Why all Sierra all the time, and worrying over the professor and Brad.  I like Lip's interactions with Brad and prof, but i care about Lip, not them.  Glad the writers realized this or always knew it.  

Ian's anger at Fiona still lives which is no shock, and won't end well IMO.  

I'm tired of Frank's side stories, I understand why, but I preferred his daily scenes in first 7 eps with his sons.  IF he's not attached to his kids in some way, i'm dulled out.  

Fiona and Debbie and Carl's stories bore me silly.  I feel like they're wasting Carl.  

As worried as I am For Ian i see a good story, lesser extent with Lip.  

[Dee]

The best scene? Fiona's siblings explaining why she's 'complicated.'

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, finally we have found a guy who doesn't want to have sex with Fiona!

I am not a Frank fan, but at least we got a scene of everyone singing Justin Bieber. And he isn't screwing over the rest of the Gallaghers, so there's that.

[Jakie man]

Way to go Ian!

The nerve of that pastor trying to turn gay people into heterosexual.Homosexuality is not a choice one makes.It's just how some of us are made.Does it not say in the bible that acceptance is the best policy?

It may be no surprise that I'm a fan of Ian.And I love the way he stood up for his and everyone else's rights in the gay community.

Rock on Ian!

[HoboClayton]

I am disappointed in what they are doing with Kevin and Vee. They are going nowhere with them this season, and that makes me sad.  What was the point of Kevin finding his family again?? Ian has driven me to just outright hate him now, so I don't care anymore about his storyline. I've actually liked Trevor that past few episodes.  I liked the previously done plot with the anti-gay church better than this time around.  The option for Debbie to just not have unprotected sex or get on birth control is just not there, and that's maddening, but true.  Carl? You dumb.  Fiona, the lesbians, and the carpenter story line?? Okay... The hell??  Does anyone care about Sierra? At all? Genuinely curious. Least entertaining episode of the season for me. 

[talktalk]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ha, finally we have found a guy who doesn't want to have sex with Fiona!

Unfortunately his reticence has more to do with his own "complicated" situation. I would say he is definitely interested. No guy would drag a girl to see all those "architecture" if he is not interested. 

BTW, Ian is behaving like a real little "bitch" in the past two episodes. His motivation to help those kids was to please Trevor, but to do it at the expense of his own sister? and to those extreme measures? What an ungrateful little brat! 

Edited January 1, 2018 by talktalk

[Chaos Theory]

On 12/30/2017 at 11:01 AM, sunflower said:

I really don't like how they're using Liam.  I know he's just a kid who can't really have a full SL, but having him act servile to Debbie, the picture taking, and as Frank's little helper is not only boring, but not a good look.  

Thats not really all that different then what they had YoungDebbie and YoungCarl do though.   They were often side kicks to the older children or Frank.   I don't really see the problem.  

On 12/30/2017 at 4:49 PM, Dee said:

The best scene? Fiona's siblings explaining why she's 'complicated.'

I thought that was hilarious and it was done in a hilarious way.  

5 hours ago, Jakie man said:

Way to go Ian!

The nerve of that pastor trying to turn gay people into heterosexual.Homosexuality is not a choice one makes.It's just how some of us are made.Does it not say in the bible that acceptance is the best policy?

It may be no surprise that I'm a fan of Ian.And I love the way he stood up for his and everyone else's rights in the gay community.

Rock on Ian!

I think maybe Ian had found his calling with Trevor and the runaways by helping them.  I may not be a fan of Trevor but he is good for Ian in his own way.  Ian has always needed a focus and helping the homeless is a good focus for Ian and a pretty good storyline as well. 

 

Is Lip's new sponsor Big Boo From Orange is the New Black?   Because that's kinda awesome.  

Edited January 2, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[monagatuna]

15 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Thats not really all that different then what they had YoungDebbie and YoungCarl do though.   They were often side kicks to the older children or Frank.   I don't really see the problem.  

I thought that was hilarious and it was done in a hilarious way.  

I think maybe Ian had found his calling with Trevor and the runaways by helping them.  I may not be a fan of Trevor but he is good for Ian in his own way.  Ian has always needed a focus and helping the homeless is a good focus for Ian and a pretty good storyline as well. 

 

Is Lip's new sponsor Big Boo From Orange is the New Black?   Because that's kinda awesome.  

It sure is, and she looks great. I didn't realize her "BUTCH" tattoo was real until now--I thought it was for OITNB.

 

I actually liked the Canadian immigration storyline. Seeing Frank legitimately take care of those people, and the strange tenderness he showed Fatima when she fainted (and gave her a seven mile piggyback ride!) was endearing to me. It's still a Frank scam, but it's a lot more interesting to watch than the typical opiates hunt.

I'm pretty much over Fiona, but I love the blond lesbian trading barbs with her. I also loved that we found the one man who won't sleep with Fiona, despite being seemingly promiscuous himself. I loved everyone calling out her "complications."

I am so, so over Debbie turning into Fiona 2.0. She went to school to learn a pretty awesome trade and is still just selling her boobs. I am digging the Trevor/Ian storyline, but I do think Ian is neglecting his own mental health and it will back fire. I am SICK of Kev and Vee being wasted, though. They're the best characters on this show by far. As satisfying as it was to see him stand up to Svetlana, that had nothing to do with this weird dom/sub thing they've got going on.

Overall, this was a really satisfying episode for me.

[Philip]

You know, Saint Frank is 100% right about Twitter users promoting false fear which is true for the most part but then again, some of that fear is genuine, too.

 

I myself sort of left Twitter as I grew tired of the drama and YouTube isn't any better either. YouTube users are always on controversy this, controversy that.. just loads of drama. The most recent drama at the YouTube World is Logan Paul's video of a Japanese guy who suicide and what happened next? Pretty much every single YouTuber made a reaction video to cash in on those view$$$.

 

I'm probably sounding like an old timer annoyed with the internet but that's because it is, people have become spoiled and use whatever B.S. to their advantage.

 

Anyway, Japan has a serious issue with its native population committing suicide at forests and it hasn't stopped and probably it won't unless the govt tries to do something about it. I know, I've felt suicidal before but I then realized it's not worth it because we all just live once and there's so much to do, enjoy and experience. Suicide is IMO, a selfish action and no one should ever commit.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, monagatuna said:

She went to school to learn a pretty awesome trade and is still just selling her boobs

After her craigslist ad, I thought she would get hired by someone skeevy, but it looked like a regular welding job. Or was that scene where she gets her period supposed to take place wherever her welding classes are?

[Enigma X]

Debbie just needs o stop. It is embarassing.

 

And I was very glad that someone finally didn't want to sleep with Fiona, but I can see this setup ending soon.  Which is really too bad. Emmy Rossum is pretty but that does not mean that everyone needs to want her. 

[monagatuna]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

After her craigslist ad, I thought she would get hired by someone skeevy, but it looked like a regular welding job. Or was that scene where she gets her period supposed to take place wherever her welding classes are?

It did look like a regular welding job, but didn't appear legitimate. Wasn't Debbie's whole thing that she couldn't work until she was licensed? I don't think that's happened yet. At any rate, I really doubt any legitimate job would allow her to have a baby where welding is happening. I know it's not as skeevy as we all probably predicted, but it is tiresome. I was pretty excited at the end of last season to see her getting her shit together and she's back to her old, desperate, attention-grabbing habits.

[Philip]

Debs got hired for that because she appeared hot on the pics. If it had been a guy? Tough luck.

[whiporee]

I'm not at all happy with the Kevin and Vee dynamic. It was funny -- or at least a funny idea -- but Kevin being a full-out dom to Vee isn't interesting or realistic. First, the amount of term-hiding they have to do to have Vee avoid calling Kev "master" was silly. Second, it doesn't fit either of their personalities, and it certainly didn't fit Svet to have a little tinge of desire at Kevin domming Vee 9(and pseudo domming her). Bedroom games are different from lifestyle ones, and the way they are bleeding out into the rest of their lives is unsettling -- especially when you figure in Kevin just discovered he's from backwood Rebel-flag flying Kentucky but is getting off on ordering Vee around. Shameless has never been great at racial sensitivity, but this is so tone deaf it's nearly embarrassing. And then when you mix in Svet's little smile, it throws up the idea that all women want a degree of domination in their lives, even if they like to dominate themselves. The idea thing started funny but is turning yucky, and is starting to border on flat out mysoginist and racist.

While I'm bitching, why are almost all the tangental women crazy? Karen was crazy; Amanda was crazy. Cassidy appears to be crazy, Bonnie was not quite crazy but close to it. Sheila was crazy, Frank's other daughter was crazy. Even Fiona's lesbian tenants -- well, they may not be crazy, but certainly there's an absurdity to this collection of lesbians all getting impregnated by the same guy. Mandy, while not crazy, was murderous. I guess Sierra's not crazy, and Helene was just manipulative and sort of abusive. And, now that I think about it, kind of crazy when it came to Lip, her husband and her son. 

Frank's deal was kind of sweet. 

I like that Lip's new sponsor is asking him about him. I wonder if he has any idea. That's an interesting road to take -- it would be interesting for any of them, really, to investigate who they are. 

[Dee]

Isn't Fiona still on probation?

[Tatum]

11 hours ago, whiporee said:

I'm not at all happy with the Kevin and Vee dynamic. It was funny -- or at least a funny idea -- but Kevin being a full-out dom to Vee isn't interesting or realistic. First, the amount of term-hiding they have to do to have Vee avoid calling Kev "master" was silly. Second, it doesn't fit either of their personalities, and it certainly didn't fit Svet to have a little tinge of desire at Kevin domming Vee 9(and pseudo domming her). Bedroom games are different from lifestyle ones, and the way they are bleeding out into the rest of their lives is unsettling -- especially when you figure in Kevin just discovered he's from backwood Rebel-flag flying Kentucky but is getting off on ordering Vee around. Shameless has never been great at racial sensitivity, but this is so tone deaf it's nearly embarrassing. And then when you mix in Svet's little smile, it throws up the idea that all women want a degree of domination in their lives, even if they like to dominate themselves. The idea thing started funny but is turning yucky, and is starting to border on flat out mysoginist and racist.

While I'm bitching, why are almost all the tangental women crazy? Karen was crazy; Amanda was crazy. Cassidy appears to be crazy, Bonnie was not quite crazy but close to it. Sheila was crazy, Frank's other daughter was crazy. Even Fiona's lesbian tenants -- well, they may not be crazy, but certainly there's an absurdity to this collection of lesbians all getting impregnated by the same guy. Mandy, while not crazy, was murderous. I guess Sierra's not crazy, and Helene was just manipulative and sort of abusive. And, now that I think about it, kind of crazy when it came to Lip, her husband and her son. 

Frank's deal was kind of sweet. 

I like that Lip's new sponsor is asking him about him. I wonder if he has any idea. That's an interesting road to take -- it would be interesting for any of them, really, to investigate who they are. 

What I think is weird about the whole Kevin/Vee thing bleeding into their regular lives is that Kevin isn't really being a Dom per se, he's just finally sticking up for himself. I mean, Svet only owns half the bar, but she makes all the vendor decisions without consulting anyone, and she orders Kevin around to do the shit work. I took Svet's reaction not as desire (I think Svet is not sexually attracted to men?), but rather, just a grudging respect that Kev isn't putting up with her shit anymore. Kevin has been a pushover for much of the show, and I wish they could let him assert himself and gain respect and admiration that way, and just drop the stupid Dom/submissive storyline.

 

I think the tangential women being crazy actually makes a lot of sense. Water tends to seek its own level.

[Chaos Theory]

18 hours ago, Dee said:

Isn't Fiona still on probation?

I think the show just kinda dropped the Fiona felony thing.   It would be interesting if it got brought up again but my guess is that the show has forgotten it ever happened.

[Mindthinkr]

I loved the compass on the ceiling that the Irish guy did, as well as their architectural tour. 

Wow on Ian remembering so many Biblical quotes after only finding the Bible a day prior. How did her know exactly what that reformer was going to say? A little too convenient but ok as a SL goes. 

I thought it was funny how Lip so wanted to vent and nobody wanted to listen. Yippee for Big Boo. Yuck on the Green Goddess (salad dressing or a green smoothie?). 

To me it looked as though Debbie was cutting up cars for scrap (chop shop?). 

I do not care for Carl's new girlfriend. She's going to land him in hot water. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

22 hours ago, Philip said:

Debs got hired for that because she appeared hot on the pics. If it had been a guy? Tough luck.

There were two guys welding with her. She asked them to keep an eye on Franny when she ran into the portapottie. 

[Mindthinkr]

32 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There were two guys welding with her. She asked them to keep an eye on Franny when she ran into the portapottie. 

I agree. When her phone dinged I think that she was just assuming that it was a Tinder reply. It was really a bono fide job offer and not a minute too soon. 

[kissedbyarose]

Lip finding a sponser (+1 for Big Boo) who doesn’t give a shit about all these extra characters felt like the writers wrote that scene for me.

Too bad Sierra is back next week. I think I have an irraitional dislike for this character. She had a baby with a junkie and her father killed her mother and I’m just...who cares? I guess the writers forgot that Lip is actually smart and even if he wasn’t into school he did occasionally use his brain. He doesn’t have to be in school to find something to do. (Yeah, I know he works at the motorcycle place but you know...)

Edited January 4, 2018 by kissedbyarose

[iMonrey]

I didn't really get what the hell Frank was doing. Was he taking illegals into Canada so they could cross back into the US? Because they were banned from entering from their own countries? They were already in the US. Or was he just sneaking them out of the US for some reason? I thought he was going up there to get cheaper pills/medications to upsell to his friends at the Alibi.

I really liked the way Kevin finally stood up for himself to Svetlana. I've had no use for her since last season. I wish they'd just write her off. 

[whiporee]

They were being deported from the US, but Canada won’t send them home even if they are illegal.  I guess they can’t enter Canada legally. 

[aemom]

3 hours ago, whiporee said:

They were being deported from the US, but Canada won’t send them home even if they are illegal.  I guess they can’t enter Canada legally. 

This has actually become a really big problem in Canada. Many immigrants to the US are scared that they are going to be deported because Trump is recinding some immigrant agreements for cetain countries. They are not allowed to legally come into Canada to immigrate because they've already entered the US, so they are entering illegally instead. We've had to set up some temporary tent camps in some places because the rate that they were coming in the summer was staggering. The vast majority of them will actually be deported unless they can prove that their lives are endangered if they are deported back to their home country.

On that note, I do not see how Frank would have been able to bring the immigrants over the border the way he did from Chicago because it's not geographically possible. From New York or Vermont yes, but not from Chicago. I know it's a show, but a little bit of realism would be nice.

[Philip]

19 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There were two guys welding with her. She asked them to keep an eye on Franny when she ran into the portapottie. 

Yeah, I noticed that too but with that specific intention she put herself up, Debs was just lucky it wasn't anything too weird.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I do not see how Frank would have been able to bring the immigrants over the border the way he did from Chicago because it's not geographically possible. From New York or Vermont yes, but not from Chicago.

Well he said it was a fourteen hour car ride so they did drive northwards up into New York or Vermont before heading through the woods on foot.

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Well he said it was a fourteen hour car ride so they did drive northwards up into New York or Vermont before heading through the woods on foot.

That's what I assumed. I once was on my way to Montreal via New Hampshire and was surprised there was no border crossing guards/station at all. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

On 1/4/2018 at 1:06 AM, AEMom said:

On that note, I do not see how Frank would have been able to bring the immigrants over the border the way he did from Chicago because it's not geographically possible. From New York or Vermont yes, but not from Chicago. I know it's a show, but a little bit of realism would be nice.

I don't recall how the show handled the geography of it, but from Chicago to Detroit on I-94 is about 280 miles.  Two border crossings in Detroit area to Ontario.

[aemom]

44 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I don't recall how the show handled the geography of it, but from Chicago to Detroit on I-94 is about 280 miles.  Two border crossings in Detroit area to Ontario.

I was looking to cross north, not east, but you're right, the Detroit crossing is not that far relatively speaking.

What also threw me off is that I specifically recall him speaking a few lines in French and commenting about Montreal or Quebec or something and the Quebec border is a LONG way off from Chicago.

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, AEMom said:

I was looking to cross north, not east, but you're right, the Detroit crossing is not that far relatively speaking.

What also threw me off is that I specifically recall him speaking a few lines in French and commenting about Montreal or Quebec or something and the Quebec border is a LONG way off from Chicago.

Ah, okay.  I couldn't remember how they handled the crossing.