Here And Now - General Discussion

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My opinion on this is that just because he's on his parents' insurance doesn't mean that they get to decide what kind of treatment he gets. He is a 22 year old adult. Unless they have him declared incompetent, there is no reason for them (and by them, I mean Audrey) to force medication upon him. I think the Affordable Care Act now allows you to keep your kids on your insurance until they're 26.

Oh, I agree; I'm just saying it's murky when there's another party paying for treatment. Of course, a patient's treatment plan is between the patient and doctor unless the patient is a minor. But the parents are presumably paying for it, so Ramon is screwed if he wants to continue treatment and his parents cut him off. There's no indication so far that it will happen, since Audrey is so overinvested. We saw Ramon speak up, so perhaps Audrey will back off a bit, though I'm not optimistic about that. That family meeting without him was gross.

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, The Solution said:

He was in Audrey's meeting at Kristen's school. They know each other.

BTW, if someone were ever to tell me that my statements must start with the two words "I feel", I would say "I'm done" and walk out. I feel that I deal in facts, not emotions.

I think that comes from Audrey's background as a therapist.  My mother was a therapist and the whole "I feel" think was big with her.  And, I think it is great...in some circumstances.  I'm not even sure if the situation at the school was the wrong circumstance EXCEPT that she working with teenagers who were pretty much forced into a dialogue.  It's one thing if you are seeking help for yourself and are one-on-one with an impartial party (such as a therapist), but another when you are with a group in a highly emotional situation that probably felt a lot like discipline to these teenagers (plus, teenagers aren't generally known for keeping their emotions in check).

If it had been a situation where the two groups decided to come together to discuss the issue on their own, and they had brought in--and accepted--Audrey as a facilitator, the "I Feel" bit might have been successful.

[MBayGal]

12 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I reached maximum capacity for entitled wealthy white men's problems many years ago.

I totally agree!!  

As for Duc, I too wondered if he pretends to his family that he is celibate, but is out banging random women; or if he just fantasizes about having all that sex; or if he can only have random sex but not make love in a relationship. And someone mentioned all this sex takes place in Vancouver??  Now I'm trying to care about the answer.

If Ball needs any more woke, p.c. stereotypes, he can have this one for free:  Greg and Audrey keep adopting non-White children because one of their birth families adopted disabled Jewish children, one of whom turned out to be a lesbian who married an illegal alien from Mexico, who has an anchor baby because she was raped by a Native American security guard after leaving an Indian casino after gambling away all the rent money.  You're welcome.

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, MBayGal said:

As for Duc, I too wondered if he pretends to his family that he is celibate, but is out banging random women; or if he just fantasizes about having all that sex; or if he can only have random sex but not make love in a relationship. And someone mentioned all this sex takes place in Vancouver??  Now I'm trying to care about the answer.

Yes, all *this* sex took place in Vancouver, but I have a feeling that Duc gets quite a lot of action whenever he leaves town.  Perhaps it was to show that he has to live a double life--in Portland, he has to be the perfect son who meets all of his parents expectations (but will always fail, because the bar just keeps rising AND he's not Ramon) and, when he leaves town, he can/has to express the baser parts of his persona.

[MBayGal]

4 hours ago, topanga said:

But is the show saying that everyone in Portland does drugs? Jeez. People are so casual about marijuana, cocaine, mushrooms, Ecstasy, LSD, etc.

I've only been in portland a few, brief times, so I only know what I see and hear about it.  I wasn't surprised to see these characters being casual about drug use, but when the sibs stepped outside to smoke cigs, I thought What? Hip, cool Portlandians smoke tobacco?   

I thought the high school meeting with audrey was ridic, but agree that wasn't the final resolution.  My guess is the Northern European club will just go underground and Dire Consequences will result. 

12 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Yes, all *this* sex took place in Vancouver,

I missed whatever clued us that he traveled all the time to Vancouver.  Is that Vanc, Washington or B.C.?  BC seems like a much hipper place, but Washington is a lot closer.

[OtterMommy]

45 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

 

I missed whatever clued us that he traveled all the time to Vancouver.  Is that Vanc, Washington or B.C.?  BC seems like a much hipper place, but Washington is a lot closer.

I'm going to assume Vancouver BC, because Vancouver, WA is minutes away from Portland.  Not only would have he not had the privacy that "going away" would afford, but he also wouldn't need a hotel room.

Plus, he met with a publisher in Vancouver, and as far as I know, there are no publishers in the 'Couv (but there are several in Vancouver, BC)

[OtterMommy]

8 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

I've only been in portland a few, brief times, so I only know what I see and hear about it.  I wasn't surprised to see these characters being casual about drug use, but when the sibs stepped outside to smoke cigs, I thought What? Hip, cool Portlandians smoke tobacco?   

Yep, they smoke.  They usually smoke more "natural" substances (not just pot, but also clove cigarettes...and vaping is big here), but smoking is a thing.

[TVAddict]

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I can't help but feel like I'm being totally jerked around by a show that's taking itself way too seriously.  I am, however willing to give it another hour or so before I decide.  I guess I have more spare time than discerning sense.

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, TVAddict said:

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I can't help but feel like I'm being totally jerked around by a show that's taking itself way too seriously.  I am, however willing to give it another hour or so before I decide.  I guess I have more spare time than discerning sense.

I agree there's a fair amount of that. There's a sense of "Important Things are Happening!" while still playing right into the tropes, especially the dad's storyline.

I can't help but compare it to Six Feet Under, which was much more cohesive, even from the start. A funeral home-owning patriarch died, leaving a business and legacy of sorts for his family to navigate. To contrast, Here and Now needs a paragraph to describe.

[planet17]

6 hours ago, TVAddict said:

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I can't help but feel like I'm being totally jerked around by a show that's taking itself way too seriously.  I am, however willing to give it another hour or so before I decide.  I guess I have more spare time than discerning sense.

With the exception of Greg I really like the characters and I'm really interested in getting to know them. And I really want this show to be really good. Like HBO level of good drama. But I'm starting to understand more why it got so much bad reviews based on the first four episodes. I still enjoyed the episode, but there are too much going on, a huge and ambitious sense of self importance and there is little to none subtlety.

I'm not feeling confident about the future of the show and I suspect that HBO didn't invest much promoting this show because they were also not feeling so confident after the pilot. But I really want HBO to give Ball and this show another chance, they can fix the mistakes for a second season. This should be a new prestige drama.

[bilgistic]

I happened upon the A.V. Club's recap/dissection of the episode. They are pretty meh on it, too.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I've only been in portland a few, brief times, so I only know what I see and hear about it.  I wasn't surprised to see these characters being casual about drug use, but when the sibs stepped outside to smoke cigs, I thought What? Hip, cool Portlandians smoke tobacco?  

 

7 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Yep, they smoke.  They usually smoke more "natural" substances (not just pot, but also clove cigarettes...and vaping is big here), but smoking is a thing.

It's the same here in Berkeley and San Francisco. There is casual drug use as well as lots of smoking of every possible variety. I always find it weird that the very same people who insist that they must nurture their bodies with organic kale are the same ones standing outside the co-op smoking cigarettes. I guess they all missed the days of C. Everett Koop or they think all of that organic produce is going to make them so extra healthy that they won't get cancer.

[Rahul]

I, like many of you here was disappointed to read that critics had panned this show since I have been a fan of Alan Ball's since American Beauty. Six Feet Under is one of my favorite shows of all time, so I was really looking forward to this show despite the nebulous premise. I also enjoyed True Blood immensely during its first few seasons.

I'm still not quite sure what to make of this show, but at its core I think it will be a family drama with supernatural elements peppered in for a layer of added intrigue. Interestingly enough, the TV guide data bills it as a comedy and drama--no mention of the paranormal or fantasy.

Is Ramon really supposed to be the hot one? I just don't see it, between the stringy unkempt hair and beyond blemished skin that was incredibly conspicuous with all the close ups on his face. 

Hopefully the other siblings get equal focus. I'm interested in learning in why Duc has chosen a life of celibacy. Clearly there are some deep seated issues there. Ashley's also another mystery; ostensibly she has it all but there is a sense of dissatisfaction in her life.

In case this of interest to anyone, Ramon's Persian psychiatrist is played by Alan Ball's long time partner.

[SoCal Mema]

On 2/19/2018 at 7:48 AM, luna1122 said:

Wait, I thought he went to school with Kristen? Or am I mistaking another kid in her class for him? I did laugh a little that the parents were not quite clear on whether it's gender fluid or gender queer, or what. They're trying to be supportive, but sometimes the labels get confusing.

I'm also curious about just what Audrey's occupation/career/business is, exactly.

I do think there's going to an ugly fall out from the "White Kids' movement group. That boy who Audrey clearly believed she had gotten thru to....I'm pretty sure she did not.

You are correct.  He was sitting in the same classroom when the kids were all arguing over their opinions.

[luna1122]

35 minutes ago, Rahul said:

 

Is Ramon really supposed to be the hot one? I just don't see it, between the stringy unkempt hair and beyond blemished skin that was incredibly conspicuous with all the close ups on his face. 

I think he's RIDICULOUSLY beautiful.

35 minutes ago, Rahul said:

 

In case this of interest to anyone, Ramon's Persian psychiatrist is played by Alan Ball's long time partner.

I did not know that...cool. Go, Alan. he's quite attractive, and has this quiet gravitas onscreen that I like.

[Lemons]

Way too many tired cliches.  They don’t allow protestors that close to the entrance of planned parenthood so that was stupid.  The “outrage” that Northern Europeans wanted to start their own group and everyone who isn’t European getting all upset was stupid.  The high schoolers using every overused trendy expression was stupid.  Every social issue crammed into an hour was lazy writing.  It’s too bad because the premise was good.  

[Rahul]

5 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I think he's RIDICULOUSLY beautiful.

I did not know that...cool. Go, Alan. he's quite attractive, and has this quiet gravitas onscreen that I like.

I didn't like Peter Macdissi's character on SFU. So far I'm not minding his character on Here and Now, but I suspect something about the actor also irks me.

3 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

I am just happy that there is another interesting gay couple on TV. David and Keith were IMO the best gay characters on TV, since they were so well-defined beyond their gayness. Even Looking didn't quite manage to create such multilayered characters as David and Keith.

Are they actually a couple, though? Ramon and Henry just met and most gay men their age like to play the field. 

The one character I find completely insipid is the patriarch Greg. I've never cared for Tim Robbins in anything I've seen him in and this series is no different.

I cannot seem to keep from mixing up Holly Hunter and Lauren Holly. 

[scrb]

HBO renewed two other shows currently airing but no word on whether this show will get another season.

[The Solution]

I kind of hate that Greg's driving music (The English Beat, The Pretenders) is so similar to my own. He's not young or cool enough to listen to that. I mean, I was a Kent State punk rocker in the '80s, oh fuck no! I'm not them, am I?

That aside, I'm really starting to enjoy this show. I found Audrey's comments after the hate crime to be very enlightened, level-headed and timely. You can't condone the behavior, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to ruin the rest of a kid's life. Sometimes rehabilitation should be the aim. /end soapbox rant good god i am them

Lots of interesting character development in this episode and I am interested to see where this goes.

[bilgistic]

I still don't care about Greg.

[BunchOMalarkey]

I found Audrey's comments to be awful. She only seemed to care about the kids who lynched the dummy and not how it made the kids who were the target feel. She was so concerned about making sure those hateful kids had a future vs. helping the diverse kids figure out how to navigate in a hostile environment, which is why they needed to have a moment to themselves to process it. What about their futures? Audrey is partly responsible for them not being able to trust their white allies at that moment. 

Not too big a fan of Greg yet, but I'm really fascinated by all of their children. 

[OtterMommy]

Quote

Greg and Audrey look to the past to find financing for the Empathy Initiative. Kristen is partnered with Navid, Farid's son, in a school project, and learns there’s more to him than meets the eye. Farid debates Islam with the mosque’s Imam, much to Layla’s chagrin. Ramon worries he may have shared too much with Henry. The family heads to a familiar retreat to celebrate Haley’s birthday, with an unexpected conclusion.

[scrb]

I wonder if they're trying to copy some of the mythology from Leftovers with the 11:11 thing.

That show also had an episode with a deer but on Here and Now, the deer shits all over Greg's attempt to commune with nature -- good thing his Prius was nearby.

Farid has his own thing going but mostly traumatic memories.  The actor did a good job of showing his changed mood and of course as soon as he arrives at the reception all stoned, the first thing he goes for is the food.

Unfortunately I think Navid's secret will get out and he'll get ostracized or worse, either by Muslim-haters or by Muslims.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

OMG, Ashley's clothing company sells donut man rompers? I can't deny that I enjoyed her revenge plot.

That "where are you REALLY from?" conversation that Farid had with the weed store employee gets an A+ from me. I can't tell you how many times I've had that stupid pointless conversation with nosy strangers. I'm not ashamed of my racial background, but I also don't think it's appropriate to ask a stranger about it, just the same way I wouldn't ask a stranger how much their weigh or how much money they make. IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS. The really frustrating thing is that people are so entitled that if your answer isn't Some Other Country, they will just keep asking more questions. It usually goes like this:

Stranger: Where are you from?
EB: I live in the Bay Area.
Stranger: No, where are you REALLY from?
EB: I grew up in southern California.
Stranger: Well, where were you born?
EB: Chicago.
Stranger: Where are your parents from?
EB: Chicago.

I've had this conversation with strangers so many times that I've lost count. If my friends ask about it or it comes up in conversation, I am totally willing to talk about my racial background. I just find it incredibly offensive that total strangers will approach me with the sole purpose of asking me about it.

And realistically, what are you going to do with that information? Go home and say, "OMG, I saw this girl on the street and guess where she's from? Well, she's from California but guess where her relatives from somewhere up the line are from? Isn't this the most fascinating information?" Let's just say that Farid had told her. Then what? What would her response to that be? "Oh, cool. I've never been there but I hear it's nice/warm/fucked up/got great food."

I only wish I had thought of Farid's answer! "Where are YOU really from?"

On a related note, the look on Duc's face when his biker bros were making jokes about getting herbs in Chinatown, oriental juju, and senseis was about the same as mine. Yes, Asia is just one giant country, you fucking idiots. If Malcolm had won the race, would they have asked him if he got herbs in Chinatown? NOPE.

Farid's brief flashbacks were horrifying so I can understand his anxiety. Loved seeing him chill out with the random lady on the street.

As someone who lives in hippie central, I knew as soon as I saw Carmen give Ashley that very long hug at the door that she would be some kind of intuitive. It was nice to see Duc give in to her long hug at the end though. He is so used to the facade he uses for everyone that I was glad he relaxed, even if just for a few seconds.

I totally get why Malcolm was a little mad at Duc for not telling him that Ashley was doing cocaine with a male model, but I am 99% sure that Duc's first loyalty will always be to Ashley, even if he and Malcolm are BFFs. He will always be Ashley's brother first and that means not betraying her confidence, even to his BFF.

Edited February 26, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Duc: You ready to fuck that mountain's brains out?
Malcolm: I'm ready to rape that mountain.
Ashley: No! We're not having that much aggression in this house. Gawd, Hailey's in the next room. She does not need to hear that shit. There's a reason misogyny's spelled with two Ys.
Duc: Is that chromosome humor?

Duc: See you guys in, like, three minutes.
Malcolm: That's what happens when you eat tree bark for breakfast.

Greg: I never said anyone should be optimistic in the face of fascism.

Biker 1: You gotta tell me your secret, man. What is it? Roids? I bet [Duc] gets some weird concoction made of fucking goat dust and dried beetles from one of those places in Chinatown, right? Some ancient oriental juju.
Biker 2: What's the secret sauce, sensei?
Biker 3: That's Japanese, you dumbass.

Randy: This doesn't really seem like something that would be on your site.
Ashley: Well, I'm starting a new line. I call it Douchebag. Hey, Randy, what do you know about statutory rape?
Randy: Uh...what?
Ashley: Kristen - the girl you fucked in the treehouse - she's seventeen years old.
Randy: Yeah, well, props to her. I still don't see the raping through.
Ashley: Well, you see, when a 26 year old man fucks a 17 year old girl, that is statutory rape.
Randy: I don't know what you're talking about. She seemed into it.
Ashley: You're not making it better, Randy.
Randy: She was wearing a horse head!
Ashley: Did you know she's my sister?
Randy: Oh, fuck me!
Ashley: Yeah.
Randy: Ashley, I never would have. If I had known-
Ashley: No. Now I need you to repeat after me. I, Randy Butler, am guilty of statutory rape.
Randy: Wait, are you recording all of this?
Ashley: Say it. That is literally the only thing that will keep me from calling the cops right now.

Ashley: Karina, we're done here.
Karina: Did we capture a predator?
Ashley: We did.

Canabliss employee: I'll need to see some ID.
Farid: There you go.
CB employee: Farid Shakrani - what's that?
Farid: What's what?
CB employee: Where are you from?
Farid: Portland.
CB employee: No, I mean where are you actually from?
Farid: Where are YOU actually from?
[CB employee shakes her head and gives him a confused look]
Farid: Exactly.

Greg: I haven't figured out yet to be old.
Audrey: Practice what you've preached. We're all alive. Be here now. Forget the past. Don't worry about the future.
Greg: It's a hell of a lot easier to make that argument when you're 25 years old.

[HazelEyes4325]

I'm having a lot of trouble mustering up any sympathy for Greg.  I'm not sure if the character is just plain unlikable or it they are trying to set him up for some sort of redemption.  I'm also becoming more irritated with Duc.  I get that he was always tightly wound and he has his own issues, but he just came off as outright obnoxious in this episode.  I actually found him one of the more interesting characters when this series started, but now I would just rather not see him.

[planet17]

I'm still waiting for this show to get bad as the critics made it seem to be. There are flaws, certainly. And it isn't the best new show, but it's quite enjoyable.

Edited February 27, 2018 by planet17

[Dminches]

On 2/19/2018 at 2:54 AM, scrb said:

That high school was unreal.  Those kids are insufferable.  But interesting that Audrey was encouraging empathy while Greg is telling his students to forget empathy.

That ophthalmologist -- "no you'll never see the same again but you're not seeing the same as when you were a teenager" -- must have pissed him off.

Also, the trans or gender-fluid son of the psychiatrist had all the family in his social media feed or something.  Talk about all these coincidences, when these people have never had any contact with each other previously.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ball is gently mocking the Portland hipster mindset.  He said in one interview though that Oregon excluded black people when it was originally founded so despite its current reputation, it has problems with race in its origins.

They have to dial the Kristen character down a little.  Why can't she rebel against the hippie parents by being a Trump supporter or something?

All great points.   I loved the empathy dichotomy.

Last year my daughter, who is Caucasian, visited Portland with her husband who is Moroccan.  They were considering moving there but felt that it was 'too white" which really meant not diverse enough.

[Rahul]

I want to like this show more than I do because I need to fill the void of excellent family drama in my TV viewing, but I find the political slant to be a bit heavy handed when so much is crammed within a single episode.

That being said, seeing the stark dichotomy in Ashley and Kristen's experience while being booked at the Portland PD was very powerful. 

Duc is an enigma. I think he is the most interesting of the siblings, along with the youngest sister who is a quirky mess.

The patriarch's character is still a total snooze.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I'm also becoming more irritated with Duc.  I get that he was always tightly wound and he has his own issues, but he just came off as outright obnoxious in this episode. 

I'm still confused about whether or not he's really celibate. What's the consensus on the scene in the last episode where he's going out and hooking up with all these random women? A double life or just a fantasy sequence? 

Assuming he's really celibate, I can understand how insulted he was that his brother-in-law/best friend would set him up with some girl without telling him. That's like saying "I know what you need better than you know." Yeah, his behavior wasn't exactly admirable but I can understand it. He was sort of lashing out because he found it preposterous that his brother-in-law/friend thinks this is his type. And he did try to make amends somewhat at the end of the evening. The whole situation was super awkward - he made it worse but he didn't set it in motion.

That said, this whole "motivational architect" or whatever bullshit he's calling it is super pretentious and impossible to get on board with.

Edited February 27, 2018 by iMonrey

[iMonrey]

I thought Audrey did a horrible job with the kids who wanted to start a White Pride club (or whatever they were calling it). There's no reason to get all touchy-feely with the language when logic will do. Simply put, "white" is not a culture. If you want to start a British Pride or Irish Pride or Italian Pride club that's one thing, but "White Pride?" That's not a thing. It's like starting a "Rich Pride" club where you have to have a certain amount of money to get in, or an "Attractive Pride" club where you have to be good looking enough to get in. Yeah, maybe people want to do that, but they're assholes. I think even teenagers could recognize that when you put it in that perspective. 

[HazelEyes4325]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm still confused about whether or not he's really celibate. What's the consensus on the scene in the last episode where he's going out and hooking up with all these random women? A double life or just a fantasy sequence? 

I took it as a double life--something he does when he's out of town and no one is the wiser.

I wasn't as put off with Duc's behavior at dinner as I was at the bike event and the way he went after Ashley's husband (whose name I can't remember).  Mr. Ashley was perfectly happy with his performance and it was a win in his book, by Duc basically screamed at him and told him his best wasn't good enough.  If one of my friends had pulled that crap with me, they'd be walking home.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, Morksmate said:

Mr. Ashley was perfectly happy with his performance and it was a win in his book, by Duc basically screamed at him and told him his best wasn't good enough. 

That's not exactly what happened. Duc was way out in front of everyone else and finished first. He then turned to watch who would come in behind. Malcolm was ahead and could have easily won but instead, he slowed down to let someone else pass him and win. While I think that it's not really Duc's place to tell Malcolm what to do, Duc did not say that Malcolm's best wasn't good enough. Malcolm didn't actually do his best and that's what Duc was upset about. Malcolm WAS doing his best and then he slowed down on purpose. Duc couldn't understand why Malcolm would deliberately let someone pass him just as he was about to cross the finish line. I didn't really see the point of what Malcolm did either. I thought it was going to come out later that he let his boss pass him (the mountain biking equivalent of letting your boss beat you at tennis or golf to stroke his ego), but nope, it was just some other biker friend of theirs.

[luna1122]

Okay, I just loathe Greg. He's a big, whiny, screamy, profane baby-man; literally everything he does bugs me, including his overreaction to a bee sting. He seems developmentally challenged...sort of Gump-y. And so he needs his little blue pill to perform, and runs out, in part, I guess because he's been using them with his sex worker, or maybe he doesn't need them with her, I don't know. But when they find he's out of pills, it's didn't seem to occur to him that he could help his WIFE out and see that thru, like if no dick was involved, then it didn't count as sex or wasn't worth pursuing, and once he DID find his little friend was working after all, he immediately abandoned giving her oral sex so he could get HIS rocks off. Ugh, I hate him.

Even douchey hot model guy can't pull off tighty whities, let alone when he's scratching his balls thru them. Just gross. The donut boy-romper was hilarious.

Edited February 28, 2018 by luna1122

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I had the same issue with Greg when he said he was out of Viagra. As Monica said on Friends, "How about just being there for HER?" But apparently if he wasn't going to get an orgasm out of this interaction, he wasn't going to bother giving her any pleasure. What a guy!

I hated the entire first five minutes of the episode where he just wandered into the woods to follow a deer. That's a great way to get lost (heh, or attacked by a huge buck).

What I found really sad about the model was that Kristin went to his house to tell him that he gave her chlamydia and then she still asked if they could hang out some time. You deserve better than a dude who gave you chlamydia, girl.

[iMonrey]

If I had to guess it seems like Greg is just having a typical mid-life crisis. He's based his whole life/career on some sort of philosophy he wrote a book about and now he's questioning it and his whole life. But . . . so what? They've given me no reason to care.

[HazelEyes4325]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That's not exactly what happened. Duc was way out in front of everyone else and finished first. He then turned to watch who would come in behind. Malcolm was ahead and could have easily won but instead, he slowed down to let someone else pass him and win. While I think that it's not really Duc's place to tell Malcolm what to do, Duc did not say that Malcolm's best wasn't good enough. Malcolm didn't actually do his best and that's what Duc was upset about. Malcolm WAS doing his best and then he slowed down on purpose. Duc couldn't understand why Malcolm would deliberately let someone pass him just as he was about to cross the finish line. I didn't really see the point of what Malcolm did either. I thought it was going to come out later that he let his boss pass him (the mountain biking equivalent of letting your boss beat you at tennis or golf to stroke his ego), but nope, it was just some other biker friend of theirs.

Okay, I stand corrected.  However, it still doesn't change my current feelings about Duc.  There really was nothing in that scene that Duc did that was appropriate.

In some ways (okay, one way...), Duc reminds me of my older brother.  In our family, he is considered the "smart one" and pretty much nothing he's done is EVER questioned and his less than appropriate behavior has always been overlooked because, you know, he's the smart one.  Now, the facts that he has behaved horribly to any number of people AND he has made some pretty boneheaded decisions are things that are just not talked about by most of the family (I may be the exception there...).  Duc's behavior, both at the biking event at the dinner were definitely on the unacceptable side of the line and I think if it had been Ramon or Kristen, Ashley or Malcolm would have called them on it...but not Duc.

[Eyes High]

I would have liked this show a lot better if Ramon's dumb, pretentious description of his game had been met with derisive laughter instead of thoughtful, knowing nods and "I like that" comments, although I guess that moment nicely sums up why this show has been getting such terrible reviews. 

 

Quote

What I found really sad about the model was that Kristin went to his house to tell him that he gave her chlamydia and then she still asked if they could hang out some time. You deserve better than a dude who gave you chlamydia, girl.

To reference a much better show, how could she say no to the man who gave her chlamydia?

Edited March 2, 2018 by Eyes High

[Adusk81]

Ok the whole revenge on Randy thing is such absolute bullshit. Kristin came at him like a horny...well, horse I guess. She led him to a private spot and instigated the whole thing. Now she's the victim? Fuck you! This is some "me too" inspired bullshit and it's getting tired. Other than that, definitely digging this show. Another self absorbed previlaged family from Alan Ball. Good stuff. 

[bilgistic]

Ugh, I feel sick about Henry (Ramon's boyfriend). The preview made me feel like it's not going to get better. I was hoping he sleepwalked or something.

How has a couple that's been married 35ish years (I'm estimating) not used sex toys? Greg and Audrey acted like it was something they just now thought of. No wonder they're so damn boring.

[OtterMommy]

Quote

Farid has trouble separating professional and personal perspectives after Ramon’s most recent incident. Kristen and Navid stumble onto potentially incriminating activity. Duc and Carmen make a pledge over tea. Ashley and Malcolm have dinner with the parents of Haley’s classmate, but come away with divergent opinions about the couple.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I had to laugh at Duc's trials and tribulations of trying to film in a public place. I mean, I totally get that not everyone has their own pool, but any time you film in public you are taking the risk of someone butting in like that. I did laugh when his tripod fell over.

So the plot thickens with Malcolm. At this point we know that he has downhill skis, powder skis, a snowboard, a mountain bike, and a drone. He has some expensive hobbies. And apparently he's the fun parent who does things like let Haley wear the sparkly dress that was supposed to be for her birthday party, leaving Ashley to be the one who says no.

Now that I've seen more of Ramon's game, I don't understand why it got accepted into that competition. It looks like a typical RPG.

Greg going in for a fist bump with his grad student seemed so sad to me.

Man, I can see why Ashley doesn't have a great relationship with her mom. That passive aggressive backhanded "compliment" about how she envied Ashley because it was easier to run her clothing company than to try to make the world a better place just made me roll my eyes.

I can see both sides of the Farid/Layla argument (and for some reason, the wife's name was changed from Minou in the second episode to Layla at some point in the third or fourth episode). Yes, you should be a polite guest and honor other people's beliefs but at the same time, the guy who had them over for dinner was treading into very personal things for Farid who lived through some terrible things as a result of the religion that their dinner host idealizes. But it was obvious that Farid was baiting the guy. I mean, showing up with your own bottle of wine? Dude.

This is the most I have ever liked Greg. See how tolerable he can be when he isn't being a mopey mess? When he convinced Ramon to leave his apartment for Haley's birthday party instead of moping around waiting for Henry to come back, he was actually a good dad. He made two excellent points - (1) even if Haley doesn't remember years from now that Ramon wasn't at her birthday party, she will know today and (2) who wants to sit around waiting for a guy who disappeared in the middle of the night? Then he lost me again when he lied to Audrey about the sex toy. Ha, loved that Ashley immediately knew what it was called.

I get why Ramon is freaked out that Henry is missing, but sitting around your apartment and missing your niece's birthday party isn't going to make Henry come back. You can't put your whole life on hold because something MIGHT happen. Yes, Henry might come back during the two hours that you're gone for a picnic. But he might not and then you will miss Haley's birthday for nothing. Bring both phones to the park with you and if he calls, you can deal with it then.

I'm glad that one they all got to the park and started running around, the kids had a good time. Emo Ramon was laughing and chasing Haley and then even convinced pouting Kristen to come play with them too instead of hate texting that lame guy.

I had a brief moment of panic that when Ramon ran off during hide and seek that he would stumble upon Henry's dead body. I'm not sure if that would have been better or worse than what he actually saw.

Edited March 5, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ashley: You've already got skis.
Malcolm: Those are downhill. These are powder. Completely different.
Ashley: And you've got the snowboard.
Malcolm: That's like a totally other sport.
Ashley: And it's not winter.
Malcolm: Exactly. And that's why these-
Ashley: How much did you spend?
Malcolm: Were on sale. So, yes, I bought new skis, but in reality, I was saving us money.
Ashley: You're trying to gaslight me.
Malcolm: Only a little.

Greg: Well, why wouldn't you propose if you love her?
Michael: It's just a meaningless grand gesture, isn't it?

Audrey: I need business advice.
Ashley: I thought Duc was your go-to
Audrey: Where did you get that idea? You're both knowledgeable and highly successful. But he'll make me do push-ups before he tells me anything.

Audrey: How do you do The Kickstarter?

Ashley: Wouldn't you rather get $100K from one person rather than $50K from a hundred different people who want prizes? Don't you know somebody rich who'd like to atone by financing a good cause?

Audrey: I envy you. You've always been smarter than I am. This is so much easier than trying to make the world a better place.

Greg: No pickles for Ramon, no mayo for Duc, no mustard for Kristen.
Audrey: No cheese for Ashley. Malcolm's good with all condiments. He's not very discerning.

Kristen: Aren't you scared? They burned down that mosque in Seattle last month.
Navid: Not too scared. Some men came to our mosque once. They were drunk and shouting and waving signs and Confederate flags.
Kristen: Dumb shits. Oregon wasn't even a state during the Civil War.

Layla: You hate religion. You don't believe in God. That's fine.
Farid: I don't need your permission.

Greg: Do you really want to sit around waiting for somebody who took off on you in the middle of the fucking night?
 

[The Solution]

I'm pretty sure Minou is Farid's mother and that Duc is the one who immediately knew what the sex toy was. This show fascinates me.

Duc was pretty douchetastic this episode and I idon't believe they spent any money on Henry's wardrobe this week.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

37 minutes ago, The Solution said:

I'm pretty sure Minou is Farid's mother

Many early reviews refer to Farid's wife as Minou, as did the closed captioning (I believe it was the second episode) so that must have been her name in the initial press releases that were sent to critics with the screeners. It looks like Farid's mother's name is Donya.

But keep in the mind that HBO can't even agree on how to spell the name of Ashley's kid. In the official episode description above, her name is spelled Haley. In the episode when Ashley texts her siblings, it's spelled Hailey.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter how Ha(i)ley's name is spelled or what Farid's wife's name is. The show just needs to make decisions and stick with them, but I guess that's too much to ask.

[Seppuku]

I don't even know why I watch this show; maybe it's because it's the HBO lull period, maybe it's because I'm just curious about the 11:11 and the connection between Ramon and Farid, because otherwise, I find most of the show nauseating, for many reasons.  The biggest reason (and I'd like to establish that I'm not white) is because of it's overly anti-white tone, exemplified especially by just about everything Kristen says (and by her herself).

Coming from a region that suffered a lot from European colonialism, and still suffers from the effects of that as well as postcolonial (indirect and direct) actions by the West, I totally understand and buy into European/American evil doing, mainly because of the "white man."  But to simply deny and ridicule any notion of unique "culture" and positive deeds is laughable.  When the white kids wanted to start their club, I thought "yeah, I totally understand and would be fine with it"

I mean is being Colombian or Liberian or Vietnamese really that much more "special" than being American.  Each of these countries have their own dark history, whether in terms of what they did internally and/or to other groups around them (by the way, am the only one who rolls his/her eyes whenever Duc comes on screen and I'm supposed to believe that he is Vietnamese; I mean can they not have found someone who is actually Vietnamese to play the character, or at least make him of Chinese or Korean backgrounds, as he actually looks?!).

I'm just sick of this show and other shows pushing the agenda that only the "white man" did/does evil.  Every race, creed, ethnic or religious group has many skeletons in its closets, and if you dig enough in history you'd find many instances when just about any group, when given a chance, did just much evil.  Can't we just condemn evil, prejudice, and racist people regardless of what they are and what the targets of their hatred and evil are?

 

P.S., for those reasons, I found Farid's comments to the Imam refreshing (though he did push a bit too far).  I am from the ME, and I know how much we get screwed by international politics (especially because of the oil under our lands), but I'm also sick of people acting like we don't have big issues in our religions and culture.  It is far too convenient to blame others than to acknowledge the issues one has and try to fix/correct them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

All of Hailey’s classmates’ parents are RUDE ASSHOLES for not bothering to send a quick email that said, “Thanks for inviting my kid to Ashley’s birthday party but we won’t be able to make it.”

3 hours ago, Seppuku said:

is being Colombian or Liberian or Vietnamese really that much more "special" than being American. 

No, being from one place doesn’t make you more special but Kristen in particular feels that she isn’t special because she’s the only one in her family who isn’t adopted and from somewhere else because her parents (it sounds like Audrey in particular) spent so much effort trying to make Ashley, Duc, and Ramon appreciate the culture of the countries where they were born. Audrey could have researched where she and her husband had roots and taught Kristen about her heritage as well so that she wouldn’t feel left out. One of my friends has family from Iceland so she got really into learning about Icelandic traditions and even studied the language. 

[iMonrey]

I see now why critics were so harsh with this show having seen the first four episodes. The first two were rather intriguing and engaging, but now it's starting to fall apart and feel a bit heavy-handed and self-important. The conversation between Kristen and Navid, in particular, seemed especially didactic. And I really don't understand what Audrey's "Empathy Initiative" would accomplish if she isn't actively engaged by a school. That whole thing just feels way too touchy-feely and new agey. 

I think the only thing that keeps me interested is the visions and the 11-11 stuff. I'm still curious enough to follow along but the character arcs are starting to fall apart. The heated conversation between Farid and his host was cringe-inducing. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by iMonrey

[Maurina]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

All of Hailey’s classmates’ parents are RUDE ASSHOLES for not bothering to send a quick email that said, “Thanks for inviting my kid to Ashley’s birthday party but we won’t be able to make it.”

Seriously!  So rude.  Then again, that part of the show didn't seem particularly realistic to me.  I've thrown many a bday party for my kids over the years and yes, you're going to get a certain number of parents who never bother to RSVP one way or the other.  But for ALL of them not to respond? AND nobody shows up? That doesn't happen, in my experience.

[OtterMommy]

First off, because incorrect details that are very easily checked piss me off....Kristen, you are an idiot.  Oregon WAS a state during the Civil War.  It became a state in 1859 (it's right on the flag!) and the Civil War was 1861-1865.  I mean, she's obviously not the brightest (or academically motivated) star in the sky, but that little detail was not presented as if she was wrong about something, but rather that no one writing bothered to check it.

This is clearly one of those shows were I am more interested in the secondary characters than the main ones.  I'd love to know more about Farid and his family and the only person in the main family that I really find tolerable is Malcolm (probably because we don't know him that well yet...).  I also kind of feel like the whole show hasn't quite gelled yet, but I hope that comes soon.  I mean, we're nearly to the halfway point of the season.

 

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So the plot thickens with Malcolm. At this point we know that he has downhill skis, powder skis, a snowboard, a mountain bike, and a drone. He has some expensive hobbies. And apparently he's the fun parent who does things like let Haley wear the sparkly dress that was supposed to be for her birthday party, leaving Ashley to be the one who says no.

Actually, none of that seemed out of the ordinary to me.  The division of labor in couples can vary widely and the idea of "fun Dad" is hardly unique.  As for all his outdoor paraphernalia, well...welcome to the Pacific Northwest!  Everyone I know who is of the outdoorsy bent has a similar (if not significantly larger) collection of toys.  I can understand how Ashley, as a business owner, might not be a fan of the expense of it all, but it certainly isn't out of the ordinary for him to have all that.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

All of Hailey’s classmates’ parents are RUDE ASSHOLES for not bothering to send a quick email that said, “Thanks for inviting my kid to Ashley’s birthday party but we won’t be able to make it.”

I'm trying to figure out if this is going to end up being some sort of racial thing with the parents not wanting their kids to be at Ashley's party (which would NOT make sense, being set in Portland), or a commentary that the art of the RSVP is quickly disappearing.  If it is the latter, then bravo to this show for bringing it up!  As a parent who has had to deal with this every time my kids have a birthday, it was probably the one time I related to Ashley (although, in my case, it worked the other way--people not RSVP'ing and then showing up when I wasn't expecting them).

 

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Many early reviews refer to Farid's wife as Minou, as did the closed captioning (I believe it was the second episode) so that must have been her name in the initial press releases that were sent to critics with the screeners. It looks like Farid's mother's name is Donya.

It could have been just another error.  Wasn't Ashley supposed to be from Ethiopia and then, when the first episode aired, it turns out she was from Liberia?  It seems like some a nonsense detail to intentionally misrepresent that it had to have been a mistake.  If it was, the name may be as well.