Dark - General Discussion

[Jack Shaftoe]

5 hours ago, Ottis said:

I've now watched almost all of the second season (spoiler-free content to follow). And I'm with you. My interest in this show was and is in the actual mystery of the mythology and mechanism for time travel. I don't care about the angst of these characters over the years, beyond getting an overall sense of who they are and their history.

I am the exact opposite. I am a big sci-fi fan, don't get me wrong, but most time traveling stories annoy me with their contrivances and paradoxes and honestly I see the time traveling shenanigans in Dark primarily as a tool for exploring the characters. I don't care much if the mechanics of time traveling make any sense or not as long as the characters remain interesting and so far they far they have. The wider mythology is most certainly not the reason I watch Dark. Not least because I am not a big fan of predeterminism. In season 2 in particular there were too many examples of the exact same development - character X tries to prevent something only to end up actually causing it.

This isn't to say that the plot of the show is bad, on the contrary, it's much better than those of most shows, including some which have tons of awards. But it's not exactly free of convenient contrivances like the police officer ordering the nuclear power plant staff to freaking break open the old reactor simply on the basis of a search warrant or 1953 Egon not bothering to ask Hannah for any documents and not seeing that her and Ulrich clearly knew each other.

Speaking of Hannah, she is the worst among the characters who haven't murdered anyone. She stole her own son's time machine to go convince Ulrich to leave his wife for her or maybe just to gloat at him.

The casting is so amazing, by the way. I was absolutely sure that the Ulrich locked up in a mental institution in 1987 is played by the same actor who plays 2019 Ulrich with some really good makeup but nope, a whole different guy who did a great job in addition to the uncanny resemblance.

And I still haven't given up on the idea of Adam being actually Bartosz, playing really long con because he hates Jonas and is obsessed with Martha. I know it's unlikely but we will see.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Jack Shaftoe

[Tardislass]

16 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I am the exact opposite. I am a big sci-fi fan, don't get me wrong, but most time traveling stories annoy me with their contrivances and paradoxes and honestly I see the time traveling shenanigans in Dark primarily as a tool for exploring the characters. I don't care much if the mechanics of time traveling make any sense or not as long as the characters remain interesting and so far they far they have. The wider mythology is most certainly not the reason I watch Dark. Not least because I am not a big fan of predeterminism. In season 2 in particular there were too many examples of the exact same development - character X tries to prevent something only to end up actually causing it.

This isn't to say that the plot of the show is bad, on the contrary, it's much better than those of most shows, including some which have tons of awards. But it's not exactly free of convenient contrivances like the police officer ordering the nuclear power plant staff to freaking break open the old reactor simply on the basis of a search warrant or 1953 Egon not bothering to ask Hannah for any documents and not seeing that her and Ulrich clearly knew each other.

Speaking of Hannah, she is the worst among the characters who haven't murdered anyone. She stole her own son's time machine to go convince Ulrich to leave his wife for her or maybe just to gloat at him.

The casting is so amazing, by the way. I was absolutely sure that the Ulrich locked up in a mental institution in 1987 is played by the same actor who plays 2019 Ulrich with some really good makeup but nope, a whole different guy who did a great job in addition to the uncanny resemblance.

And I still haven't given up on the idea of Adam being actually Bartosz, playing really long con because he hates Jonas and is obsessed with Martha. I know it's unlikely but we will see.

Sadly, I think Bartosz was that guy killed in 1921 by young Noah-just too much resemblance and it would fit with him having a pretty bad life. His girl dumps him for Jonas, he gets tied up and left in a cave for 24 hours and his parents seem strangely not to care about him surviving an apocalypse. Plus he be one to doubt Jonas/Adam and he did say he never thought his killer would be Noah, probably because older Noah recruited him. 

I'm just hoping we don't have any more family relations marrying or having babies with others, I mean it's getting ridiculous. Still think that older Noah will break the cycle of becoming Adam-don't know how or why but my gut feeling. A ballsy move would be for Jonas to sacrifice himself for the lives of the townsfolk but I'm getting a Jonas/Martha forever vibe from the show. Which is bad because I really can't stand her.

[Ottis]

19 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I am a big sci-fi fan, don't get me wrong, but most time traveling stories annoy me with their contrivances and paradoxes and honestly I see the time traveling shenanigans in Dark primarily as a tool for exploring the characters. I don't care much if the mechanics of time traveling make any sense or not as long as the characters remain interesting and so far they far they have. The wider mythology is most certainly not the reason I watch Dark. Not least because I am not a big fan of predeterminism.

I think we are sort of agreeing. Time travel has been done so much that I don't expect a lot from it anymore, and I am not hung up on paradoxes. What i hope for is the time travel to play out in a way that says something. Your example of predeterminism is a good example. And I am waiting for Dark to say something.

What I *don't* like is a whole segment on, say, Ulrich breaking out of jail in 1953, finding his (time-traveled) young son, trying to escape back to the tunnel and then being caught before he gets there and put back into jail. Or Jonas and Martha and whether they are in true lurve. Those developments added nothing, aside from little aspects of their characters. There was more and more of that as S2 went on.

Is this a battle between good and evil? if so, over what, and for what? Is this humanity vainly attempting to change the laws of physics, and so the lesson is what will happen, will happen? Is there a greater force at work we haven't met? The show seems to be spinning around aimlessly, filling its time with Hannah loves Ulrich and power plant lady is only concerned about herself and etc. etc.

This discussions make me remember Babylon 5. Don't know if you watched it, and I suspect it will appear pretty dated today. But B5 did something I thought was awesome when it happened (major spoiler ahead for B5):

Spoiler

It took 2-3 seasons of making us believe the Shadow side was pure evil, and positioned them in a philosophical debate about which path was ultimately best for humanity? Is it peace and inertia, or conflict and progress? It made you rethink everything you thought you knew about the series.

I keep hoping for something like that from Dark. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Ottis

[Tardislass]

Season 3 will make or break the show for me and it's difficult to rate it before the end. Hearing from the actors and producers it's obvious they are not trying to make it about good vs evil but what life choices make up a persons life and reactions. It's a very German way to look at it especially at least in the English speaking world we always equate Nazi=bad Allies=good. But were all Germans or Nazis bad, we'd like to think we'd never make those choices but most of them were normal people getting caught up in something and for family, money or both doing horrible things.

That's my theory and I'm interested in the motivations of Magnus and Franziska in helping Adam? Why?

[Jack Shaftoe]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

What I *don't* like is a whole segment on, say, Ulrich breaking out of jail in 1953, finding his (time-traveled) young son, trying to escape back to the tunnel and then being caught before he gets there and put back into jail. Or Jonas and Martha and whether they are in true lurve. Those developments added nothing, aside from little aspects of their characters.

Ulrich breaking out led to Egon realising that something very odd was happening and this led directly to his death. Probably contributed to Mikkel's eventual suicide too - "you can't fight fate" and all that jazz.

4 hours ago, Tardislass said:

Sadly, I think Bartosz was that guy killed in 1921 by young Noah-just too much resemblance and it would fit with him having a pretty bad life.

I know that this is the most common interpretation and probably the correct one, it just doesn't sit well with me. Mostly because Jonas fighting against his own older version is not really to my liking.

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, Tardislass said:

Hearing from the actors and producers it's obvious they are not trying to make it about good vs evil but what life choices make up a persons life and reactions.

I don't read much outside of the show itself, but this is interesting. It raises the point that so many of the characters in Dark make poor choices. I struggle empathizing with people who do that and who don't communicate with each other.

1 hour ago, Tardislass said:

But were all Germans or Nazis bad, we'd like to think we'd never make those choices but most of them were normal people getting caught up in something and for family, money or both doing horrible things.

This is also very true, and we see it in a lot of popular movies and in shows, from The Sopranos to Breaking Bad to the Hangover. It all starts with one small decision, and then it spirals to a place the characters never imagined. Several of the Dark characters ask in S2 what the first action is that sets everything in motion, and they try to stop it. I don't know if any of them had the right action, though.

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Ulrich breaking out led to Egon realising that something very odd was happening and this led directly to his death. Probably contributed to Mikkel's eventual suicide too - "you can't fight fate" and all that jazz.

IMO, this was only because Egon is the slowest cop in Europe! It felt contrived.

I still want to know why Adam wants the world to start over. What is his problem with the world as it exists? Did I fall asleep during that part?

[Tardislass]

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

I don't read much outside of the show itself, but this is interesting. It raises the point that so many of the characters in Dark make poor choices. I struggle empathizing with people who do that and who don't communicate with each other.

This is also very true, and we see it in a lot of popular movies and in shows, from The Sopranos to Breaking Bad to the Hangover. It all starts with one small decision, and then it spirals to a place the characters never imagined. Several of the Dark characters ask in S2 what the first action is that sets everything in motion, and they try to stop it. I don't know if any of them had the right action, though.

IMO, this was only because Egon is the slowest cop in Europe! It felt contrived.

I still want to know why Adam wants the world to start over. What is his problem with the world as it exists? Did I fall asleep during that part?

But isn't that like most mysteries? The sheriff in Stranger Things is so dumb he shouldn't be allowed a firearm. LOL and of course the police in Sherlock Holmes. 

I have to say in RL people make bad decisions all the time. Trump, Brexit, pollution, etc. There's a lot of people who do things for selfish reasons. I tend to like European dramas because they don't have the "cool people you cheer for" and the "evil villains."

Finally as for why Adam wants a new world, it's mostly down to the way too overhyped love of Martha. I admit that the supposed forever love between the two seems forced. When I look back at the guys I liked at 16 it was mostly lust, plus I still haven't seen anything that makes Martha so swoon worthy for Bartosz or Jonas. Are there no other girls at that school? I had to groan when Older Jonas had an obsession with her also. But yes, Jonas wants to create another world where Martha is not his aunt. Sure.fine.whatever. 

[Ottis]

12 hours ago, Tardislass said:

Finally as for why Adam wants a new world, it's mostly down to the way too overhyped love of Martha. I admit that the supposed forever love between the two seems forced. When I look back at the guys I liked at 16 it was mostly lust, plus I still haven't seen anything that makes Martha so swoon worthy for Bartosz or Jonas. Are there no other girls at that school? I had to groan when Older Jonas had an obsession with her also. But yes, Jonas wants to create another world where Martha is not his aunt. Sure.fine.whatever. 

OMG, is that all there is? Good grief. If this is the central motivation I may stop watching. Like you, I have no interest in Jonas/Martha, or really any single pairing, as the catalyst for a mystery that at least *was* intriguing. Also? Very unGerman!

12 hours ago, Tardislass said:

I have to say in RL people make bad decisions all the time. Trump, Brexit, pollution, etc. There's a lot of people who do things for selfish reasons. I tend to like European dramas because they don't have the "cool people you cheer for" and the "evil villains."

They do, but if they do, I don't care much what happens to them (always on TV, sometimes in real life). You reap what you sow.

I much prefer characters who generally make good decisions who are caught up in something anyway. I can empathize with them, and care about what happens next. Part of my growing disappointment in Dark is that it appears everyone in that town is playing a role in the bad things that happen to them, usually for selfish reasons. Don't care.

[Tardislass]

I'm not sure that Jonas/Martha will be the true ending but the talk about Jonas loving her forever, no matter what usually means in TV land that their relationship is a big deal. And none of the other couple have said anything like this. Given that I was wrong about most of Season 2, I'm probably wrong about this but the letter that young Noah gives Middle Noah and then Alternate Martha coming and saving Jonas' life leads me to believe she is the catalyst. Though it's probably Adam who wrote the letter to his younger self to bring about what happens next. But I hate it that no one ever asks the other person about things. Like why the heck would young Noah have a letter from Martha given that she doesn't know him. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Something just occurred to me, something so obvious that it has probably being answered in the show long ago but I have somehow forgotten it - what if Jonas isn't actually Mikkel/Michael's son? Let's face it, Hannah is the most faithful of spouses. If true, Jonas doesn't have the dilemma of "Do I want to date my aunt or not" or "Do I want to save my father from being trapped in the past which would lead to me not existing in the first place?".

[Flyingwoman]

On 7/8/2019 at 5:02 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

And I still haven't given up on the idea of Adam being actually Bartosz, playing really long con because he hates Jonas and is obsessed with Martha. I know it's unlikely but we will see.

I am pro this idea. I think the Nielsen/Tiedemann feud is central to this conflict, the Tiedemann's (Claudia at least) seem more inclined to long-term planning than the impulsive Nielsen's, and for a show that seems to be very careful about matching the younger actors to the older, it seems odd to cast an actor as an older version of Jonas whose head shape is absolutely nothing like the younger version's, so I am down with the that Bartosz has constructed an elaborate super-villian scheme to get back at his childhood bff.

On 7/10/2019 at 8:00 AM, Ottis said:

OMG, is that all there is? Good grief. If this is the central motivation I may stop watching. Like you, I have no interest in Jonas/Martha, or really any single pairing, as the catalyst for a mystery that at least *was* intriguing. Also? Very unGerman!

I much prefer characters who generally make good decisions who are caught up in something anyway. I can empathize with them, and care about what happens next. Part of my growing disappointment in Dark is that it appears everyone in that town is playing a role in the bad things that happen to them, usually for selfish reasons. Don't care.

I am okay with the idea of characters creating their own problems, but I swear this lot gets up every morning and asks themselves how they can maximize their dysfunction that day. Probable-murderer/spy/wtf Aleksander is the only one who has managed to adult, likely because he wasn't raised by any of the drama-royalty of Winden.

(To be fair, the Wöller siblings seem fairly chill, but we also know very little about them. They seem to be leaving us deliberately in the dark about them. That scene in which we almost find out what happened to Torben's eye was some first-class trolling.)

Edited July 13, 2019 by Flyingwoman
looked up the Wöller brother's first name

[Ottis]

On 7/9/2019 at 6:53 PM, Tardislass said:

Finally as for why Adam wants a new world, it's mostly down to the way too overhyped love of Martha.

Two things have bugged me about Adam allegedly being Jonas. First, "The White Devil" and others have been time traveling, and they don't look like Adam. It seems like an awfully convenient way to claim you're someone who you aren't.

Also, isn't Adam quite a bit shorter than Jonas (any Jonas)?

Adam's whole spiel about being Jonas sounds like something a bad guy wants to say as he tried to distract someone who might stop him.

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Two things have bugged me about Adam allegedly being Jonas. First, "The White Devil" and others have been time traveling, and they don't look like Adam. It seems like an awfully convenient way to claim you're someone who you aren't.

Also, isn't Adam quite a bit shorter than Jonas (any Jonas)?

Adam's whole spiel about being Jonas sounds like something a bad guy wants to say as he tried to distract someone who might stop him.

I agree that Adam is probably not Jonas, for these reasons and because he shot Martha quite cold-bloodedly--I just don't see young or even 40-ish Jonas becoming that cold-hearted. Adam might be Bartosz, though I'm not sure Bartosz is intelligent and/or calculating enough to end up like Adam. Or Adam might be someone else who is not a character we've seen younger. As for the disfigurement, this suggests that he was injured in the 2020 apocalypse or by radiation resulting from it (similar to the way future Elizabeth looks, though he looks worse).

In another identity question, some have suggested that the man young Noah killed outside the cave in 1921 was Bartosz, but I don't think so. I just don't see any facial resemblance, and the show has been careful about casting older and younger versions of characters with people who look quite similar. Also, again I don't think Bartosz is intelligent enough to question Adam in the way this man did or would be so accepting of the guy killing him.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

That scene in which we almost find out what happened to Torben's eye was some first-class trolling.)

I forgot about that. Really the only "laugh" the show gave us this season. I couldn't remember if they'd ever said what happened . . . for awhile I thought maybe it was something that happened way back in S1E1 but I guess it's actually a running joke.

Quote

I agree that Adam is probably not Jonas, for these reasons and because he shot Martha quite cold-bloodedly--I just don't see young or even 40-ish Jonas becoming that cold-hearted

Well he's got the same rope burns around his neck. At this point I'm willing to accept at face value that Adam is Jonas because the show hasn't (thus far) played fast and loose with who is who, nor would I want them to. It's difficult enough to keep track of who is who when you have two or three different versions of them in any given timeline. It would be far worse if the show was trying to fool us about their identities.

As it is, I know I'm going to have to go back and watch S2 again before S3 drops. Binge-watching does not lend itself to retention.

[Door County Cherry]

39 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

As it is, I know I'm going to have to go back and watch S2 again before S3 drops. Binge-watching does not lend itself to retention.

Nope.  And you kind of need retention for this show.   I think I'm going to wait until season 3 Congress out before watching 2.

[dini]

I have to say, after each episode in season 1, I read a synopsis to try to help the confusion, but I found it easier to keep track in season 2.

Can anyone answer, why did older Jonas wash his hands of Hannah? They seemed to be on the same page, then he did the whole you dont need anyone speech.

What did I miss?

[lu1535]

Parallel universes! I'm excited!

[krankydoodle]

On 7/20/2019 at 8:43 AM, dini said:

Can anyone answer, why did older Jonas wash his hands of Hannah? They seemed to be on the same page, then he did the whole you dont need anyone speech.

What did I miss?

I believe it happened when older Jonas found the box with Aleksander's gun and real passport and discovered that Hannah was blackmailing him.

[lisagd]

On 7/2/2019 at 6:10 PM, ihartcoffee said:

Observation..... people in this show love to stare at pictures from the past,  usually of themselves with someone

Hannah is constantly staring at the folded one with Ulrich. 

Who was the person to the right of Ulrich who gets hidden by folding the picture?

[lisagd]

I found a family tree for the characters that helped me keep track of who was who:

Dark Season 2 Family Tree

[KarenX]

So there is a scene with Egon in the 1950s after they found the bodies of the two boys, and the officers are musing out loud about whether a man is born a killer or if you have to make a man a killer. Two adult German men, in the 1950s. It stood out to me at the time and I complained about it out loud. Obviously they already would know how easy it is to convince men to kill others; the likelihood of any of them having already committed atrocities against civilians and even neighbors is... high. The line made me mad.

And then suddenly we get this parallel universe with a living Martha in it? 

You guys, I’m not sure Winden’s in a world that had a second world war in Europe. Maybe that is what Adam is caught up in preventing or something. It’s a fragile theory I can’t quite piece together but that line was upsettingly out of place and now I am sure it is very relevant.

[janie jones]

Sorry to be responding to old posts, but I just finished season 2, so...

On 7/4/2019 at 4:54 PM, Tardislass said:

Yes, it's the younger Elizabeth from the bunker. Watching Season 1 again, it seems she is 9 years old in 2020 which is kind of creepy since young Noah looks about 17. Really hope a decade or so goes by before they get together and have a baby. But given the weird relationships in this show, I'm not holding my breathe.

She's supposed to be 9?  I thought she was like 12 or 13.  I can't tell how old people are!  But it would make more sense that she and youngest Noah get together later.

On 7/9/2019 at 12:38 PM, Tardislass said:

That's my theory and I'm interested in the motivations of Magnus and Franziska in helping Adam? Why?

When are Magnus and Franziska helping Adam?

On 7/9/2019 at 5:53 PM, Tardislass said:

Finally as for why Adam wants a new world, it's mostly down to the way too overhyped love of Martha. I admit that the supposed forever love between the two seems forced. When I look back at the guys I liked at 16 it was mostly lust, plus I still haven't seen anything that makes Martha so swoon worthy for Bartosz or Jonas. Are there no other girls at that school? I had to groan when Older Jonas had an obsession with her also. But yes, Jonas wants to create another world where Martha is not his aunt. Sure.fine.whatever. 

So this whole time my husband and I have been unable to figure out why Jonas hasn't moved on in the 30 years since he saw Martha last, and it wasn't until she got shot that we were like, ohhhhhhh.  Because didn't she get shot in front of the 1-ish year older Jonas?  I can see how he would still have a thing for her and I can see how that might stick with you for some time.

I don't know why I find it so troubling to learn that the guy playing oldest Ulrich isn't middle-aged Ulrich in makeup, but it is.

The family tree that was posted above is actually better than this one that I've been using, but I find it helpful in that it includes pictures of people at all ages: http://davidklein.de/dark/

[Garden Wafers]

1 hour ago, janie jones said:

When are Magnus and Franziska helping Adam?

It's been a while, but I remember a scene where an older man confronts Adam for not being completely honest with Jonas. Adam brushes him off, leaves, and an older woman turns towards the previously unnamed man and calls him "Magnus". Even if they're not exactly helping Adam, they certainly don't seem opposed to him. 

[janie jones]

That sounds vaguely familiar.  Thanks.

[sistermagpie]

Late to the party but I just finished both seasons and my head's spinning. I happened to be reading a book last week called "The Psychology of Time Travel" (a novel) that also had this type of time travel. Imagine my surprise to learn that Charlotte is I guess what the travelers in that book would call a genii--that is an object (or in this case a person) who has no logical origin. Or maybe it's Elisabeth that's the genii. Anyway, the object whose origin forms a closed loop.

Can't believe we've now got horizontal characters as well as vertical/aged ones. First Mikkel said the question wasn't where but when. Now it turns out it's not when but which. Great.

Echoing that the casting is great. The only person I have trouble believing is the same is Adam because young/middle Jonas have such long, narrow faces and Adam got a big blob of a head. Granted, his head appears to have melted but still.

On 6/27/2019 at 2:36 PM, jmonique said:

Katharina can be a nasty piece of work in every timeline, but I couldn't figure out why she was so horrid to Grown-Up Jonas while shouting out who he was to Martha? 
 

Probably because for her he represents the injustice of her child taken from her. He basically replaced Mikkel in her mind--he shouldn't be here and Mikkel should. It's like he stole Mikkel.

But then, Katerina is a woman whose favorite song is that Heaven is a Place on Earth song, so perhaps she's just forever inscrutable.

That said, Hannah is the total worst. Imagine being trapped in time and the only person who comes to find you is your stalker girlfriend to punish you for not being that into her.

On 6/29/2019 at 1:40 PM, Enigma X said:

I really like this show but can’t help to think that 50% of the conflict would have been cleared up either if the older selves told their younger selves specific things or if people from different timelines just killed others from other timelines. 

My annoyance with time travel plots is that neither one of those things is an option until it is.

I'm impressed people refrain from slapping anyone who talks to them in time travel riddles or makes references to playing a game.

On 7/2/2019 at 4:06 PM, hertolo said:

One last comment: Does it make sense to say that Hannah may have lived the happiest life? If she truly just vanished into 1954 or so and created a new life for herself, she‘s the one outside it all? She‘s not stuck 66 years in the past, she‘s not the mother of her daughter, she doesn‘t have to stay alone fighting in a war for 50 years, she doesn‘t get scared. So far, of course. She has to give away the time machine one time, or maybe that‘s the end of the travel for the time machine? (And please don‘t tell me now that Hannah resurfaced somewhere in the episodes and I didn‘t get it... :)).

Possibly. That's the story of Hannah's life, though, isn't it? She has everything she needs to be happy, but inside she's a miserable person. Also it seems to fit what Jonas said about how she only ever needed herself. She's like her own closed loop who can't ever really be connected to anyone. All the more reason for Jonas and Mikkel to be close.

Quote

And truly last comment: Why do they all meet their soulmates in their teenage years and never leave Winden? Because it‘s fiction and you can do that in a book, but it gets really complicated on TV. Also, the detective remarks as much... 

Same as Hogwarts.

I'm glad to hear Germans, like me, were impressed with the cell phone reception in this small town, even from the bunker.

On 7/4/2019 at 4:58 AM, bannana said:

How did I miss this?  Was this at the end?

I too felt sorry for him.

Presumably, this refers to the man young Noah killed at the start of the season back in 1921. Though I don't think there's any confirmation that this is Bartosz, it would make sense.

Oh, I also thought it was interesting when Egon told Hannah in 1954 that her name Nielsen (Katrina's name) was an unusual name, I guess in Germany?

Edited March 23, 2020 by sistermagpie

[krankydoodle]

I can't believe it's only a few more weeks until the final season! 🙌

Is anyone else rewatching seasons 1 and 2 in the meantime? That was my plan, but I might wait and binge them a day or two beforehand because I'm not sure I have the brainpower to hold onto all the details if I start any earlier.

[Door County Cherry]

The thing is, I haven't watched Season 2 because I had forgotten so much of Season 1 when it debuted that I didn't know if I'd be able to pick up where I left off.

And I truly don't want to rewatch Sesaon 1.  I liked it well enough. Just not enough time to dedicated another 8 (or was it 10) hours to it.

[krankydoodle]

1 hour ago, Door County Cherry said:

And I truly don't want to rewatch Sesaon 1.  I liked it well enough. Just not enough time to dedicated another 8 (or was it 10) hours to it.

The show does ask a lot of its viewers. I never got to the point where I was taking notes, but I did have to consult Wikipedia and Reddit a bunch of times to figure out who was who and what was happening when. I liked season 2, but not as much as season 1. I really hope they nail the final season. 

[Door County Cherry]

I definitely had to read recaps to help me figure out what was going on.  I think part of my struggle is how similar many of them looked, especially the kids.  And then you had to figure out which kid corresponded to which adult and who was related to who.

I was very impressed with the intricate way things were weaved together in Season 1 but when it came to an apocalyptic timeline (which I was less interested in) and trying to remember how things were pieced together, I resisted.  We'll see if I go back to it.  It may depend on how well it sticks the landing.

[marinw]

Looking forward to Season Three

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'm a sucker for alternate universes. I wouldn't mind visiting one now.

 

[Nicmar]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:32 PM, marinw said:

Looking forward to Season Three

Spoiler

  Reveal spoiler

I'm a sucker for alternate universes. I wouldn't mind visiting one now.

 

I am going to have to rewatch seasons 1&2 because i will start to get confused whith all the back and forth..... but i can't wait for season 3 🙂

[dbklmt]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:13 AM, krankydoodle said:

I can't believe it's only a few more weeks until the final season! 🙌

Is anyone else rewatching seasons 1 and 2 in the meantime? That was my plan, but I might wait and binge them a day or two beforehand because I'm not sure I have the brainpower to hold onto all the details if I start any earlier.

I watched Season 1 a long time ago and completely forgot that there would be a Season 2.  Thanks to an article I read about a new season coming on June 27th I discovered that it was Season 3 and I hadn't even watched Season 2.  I decided to watch the last episode of Season 1 before beginning Season 2, but found myself totally confused with all the characters and what had happened.  Thus I decided to watch Season 1 again which I did beginning on June 4th.  I also consulted the excellent Dark page on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_(TV_series) to unconfusify = Ozmopolitan word myself and even printed it to use for future reference.  On June 5th I began Season 2 and loved that they actually showed the Apocalypse date of June 27, 2020 in the 1st episode which is the premiere day for it on Netflix 😄.  I finished 6 episodes and then the final two the next day.  I loved the ending & like marinw I'm eagerly awaiting the final Season 3.  It's only 8 days away and I'll binge watch it beginning at midnight.   

[iMonrey]

I've just finished re-watching Seasons 1 and 2, and admit I'm a bit apprehensive about Season 3. There is just still so much I don't really understand about the first two seasons, so by adding an alternate timeline/world this show might be biting off more than it can chew. As it is, we are expected to keep track of three different versions/ages of almost all the characters, so if there are alternate versions of each that makes six versions of each character! Criminy.

I still don't understand the whole apocalypse thing or the "cycles." So the apocalypse happens and there is some sort of reset? To when? I mean, we know there is a post-apocalyptic 2053 because Jonas wound up there so what exactly is resetting?

I don't think they ever really clarified what old Claudia was trying to accomplish versus what Adam wanted, or which one was telling the truth about their motivations, if either even were. Old Claudia was shot by Noah in 1954 but then showed up again afterwards in 2020. Was that an earlier version of old Claudia? It's all very confusing. I can't keep track of who has the time machine either, or why Bartosz and adult Jonas needed a smart phone to activate it but Claudia didn't.

Quote

And truly last comment: Why do they all meet their soulmates in their teenage years and never leave Winden?

Clausen commented on this very thing so I don't think it's meant to be coincidence or mere story contrivance. It seems like everyone is caught in some kind of a time loop that prevents them from leaving, but as I noted above I'm not sure I grasp how it works.

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You guys, I’m not sure Winden’s in a world that had a second world war in Europe. 

Despite the obvious fact that the characters are speaking and writing in German, I don't necessarily think the story itself is decisively meant to take place in Germany - any more than a story with English speaking characters is necessarily taking place in America. Winden is a fictional name and there have been zero references to any factual place names. So for the sake of the story, I assume it takes place in Anytown, Earth.

[dbklmt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g-wuGgZFpQ

This is one of many good videos at You Tube, the Dark Family Tree Explained about Dark's many questions, theories and season recaps by Pete Peppers.  I just want to know how Charlotte and Elizabeth can be each other's mother and who are Noah and Agnes' parents?

Edited June 18, 2020 by dbklmt

[marinw]

Season 3 Episode titles and and spoilers:

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/dark-season-3-episode-title-leaks-spoilers-theories

[Paloma]

13 hours ago, dbklmt said:

This is one of many good videos at You Tube, the Dark Family Tree Explained about Dark's many questions, theories and season recaps by Pete Peppers.  I just want to know how Charlotte and Elizabeth can be each other's mother and who are Noah and Agnes' parents?

Until I watched this YouTube video, I either forgot or never realized that Noah and Agnes are siblings. Do you remember when/how this was revealed in the show? Guess I need to rewatch the first two seasons before next week.

[dbklmt]

17 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Until I watched this YouTube video, I either forgot or never realized that Noah and Agnes are siblings. Do you remember when/how this was revealed in the show? Guess I need to rewatch the first two seasons before next week.

It was revealed in episode 3 of season two when Agnes met with Noah and tells him the location of the missing pages of Claudia's diary that Adam wanted in hopes of rejoining Sic Mundus.

[Enigma X]

I won't lie. A lot of this show's luster wore off for me once they revealed Jonas was future Adam. 

[Paloma]

For those who don't have the time or inclination to rewatch Seasons 1 and 2, here are some helpful refreshers: 

https://www.tvguide.com/news/dark-season-1-explained-what-happened/

https://www.tvguide.com/news/dark-season-2-explained-what-happened/

https://www.tvguide.com/news/dark-how-everything-connected-netflix/

[jmonique]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:01 PM, iMonrey said:

Despite the obvious fact that the characters are speaking and writing in German, I don't necessarily think the story itself is decisively meant to take place in Germany - any more than a story with English speaking characters is necessarily taking place in America. Winden is a fictional name and there have been zero references to any factual place names. So for the sake of the story, I assume it takes place in Anytown, Earth.

I just rewatched it over the past two days. Germany is specifically mentioned as the location. I can't recall which episode, though. 

[sistermagpie]

14 hours ago, jmonique said:

I just rewatched it over the past two days. Germany is specifically mentioned as the location. I can't recall which episode, though. 

I also assumed that when Jonas went back to 1921 and lied that he'd been in the war, we were to assume he meant WWI.

[jmonique]

On 6/24/2020 at 1:40 PM, sistermagpie said:

I also assumed that when Jonas went back to 1921 and lied that he'd been in the war, we were to assume he meant WWI.

Yes - and I think there was a reference to the other Alexander Koehlers in Germany when the inspector was interrogating Alexander.

[Aliferously]

Thoughts on episode 3.01 (skimming the rest of the thread to avoid spoilers)

- Ulrich, you whore. 

-Back in s1, they showed a picture wall with what I think was an adult Mads. I really imagined he might not have vanished in this timeline. Ulrich is probably too busy whoring around to really be invested in this lifetime.

-Hannah and Katharina need to lock their doors when they leave. It's not healthy that Jonas can just wander in like that.

-Love the references to fast growing Mikkel, and how he's all of the sudden old enough to take care of himself rather then an eight year old who couldn't/wouldn't in season 1.

-Totally forgot that Ulrich was a policeman. I have no idea what anybody does for a living since no one has gone back to work in three whole years.

-The Magnus/Franziska sex scenes are still unnecessary. And boring.

-So, if Hannah lives with Ulrich, whose bedroom (or whose house) was that?

-I thought the three Generations (not sure what else to call them) were actually versions of Bartosz. 

-Ulrich, you whore.

 

[krankydoodle]

Oof, episode 3.05 is brutal.

My hate for Hannah continues unabated.

[dbklmt]

1 hour ago, Aliferously said:

Thoughts on episode 3.01 (skimming the rest of the thread to avoid spoilers)

- Ulrich, you whore. 

-Back in s1, they showed a picture wall with what I think was an adult Mads. I really imagined he might not have vanished in this timeline. Ulrich is probably too busy whoring around to really be invested in this lifetime.

-Hannah and Katharina need to lock their doors when they leave. It's not healthy that Jonas can just wander in like that.

-Love the references to fast growing Mikkel, and how he's all of the sudden old enough to take care of himself rather then an eight year old who couldn't/wouldn't in season 1.

-Totally forgot that Ulrich was a policeman. I have no idea what anybody does for a living since no one has gone back to work in three whole years.

-The Magnus/Franziska sex scenes are still unnecessary. And boring.

-So, if Hannah lives with Ulrich, whose bedroom (or whose house) was that?

-I thought the three Generations (not sure what else to call them) were actually versions of Bartosz. 

-Ulrich, you whore.

 

I just finished episode 1 and just like the other two seasons more confusion than answers to whatever's going on.  I think your thoughts about the three generations are right.  The end credits had their characters names as Unknown Person 1, Unknown Person 2 and Unknown Person 3.  I like your name for them much better.  

On to episode two, but like you I'll be skipping reading this thread to avoid spoilers.

Wish someone would have composed a sub thread for Season 3 and then episodes within it which would make it easier to comment. 

[krankydoodle]

There are probably some unanswered questions that my brain is too scrambled to remember after marathoning the whole season in a day, but I'm happy with the ending and will really miss this show.

[dbklmt]

58 minutes ago, krankydoodle said:

There are probably some unanswered questions that my brain is too scrambled to remember after marathoning the whole season in a day, but I'm happy with the ending and will really miss this show.

Mine is scrambled too and I've only watched 4 episodes.  I see that Wikipedia has already updated episodes for Season 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_(TV_series)#Season_3_(2020) 

[dbklmt]

6 hours ago, krankydoodle said:

Oof, episode 3.05 is brutal.

My hate for Hannah continues unabated.

OMG! Unbelievably BRUTAL😱 .  No more episodes tonight.  Maybe tomorrow, maybe not!!  

[iMonrey]

I've only finished the first three. My main concern for the season was it would get too complicated. I was relieved that the first couple of episodes were easy enough to follow, but by the third I was starting to get a little confused. It was a lot to keep up with three different timelines, it's harder with multiple timelines in two different realities.

I do like the way everything is mirrored - literally - in the alternate timeline. I'm assuming they simply filmed them normally and then flopped them backwards. (The Kahnwald house and the Nielsen house are mirrored images of themselves - the staircases are on the opposite sides, Jonas's bed is on the opposite side, etc.)

Doing a complete rewatch of the first two seasons really paid off. I was able to pick up on all the little details they were repeating in the mirror world, like Hannah finding the hair on Ulrich's hoodie and smelling it, just like Katerina did in the first episode of the season one. 

The problem with a show like this is, of course, the younger children are visibly older. There's nothing to say they weren't born earlier in the mirror world, so that's hand-waveable, but they shouldn't look as old as they do in our world. So far they've been careful not to show Mikkel very much but Elizabeth is noticeably more mature.

[marinw]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I've only finished the first three.

Same here. I love it, but I am not pressureing myself to completly follow everything.

The show I'm comparing this to is Amazon's "Tales From the Loop", in that the atmosphere and sadness stand out more than the actual plot(s).

Glad we met middle-aged Martha. One world gets a soggy apocalypse. Another gets a blasted dessert. Which is worse?

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by marinw