S13.E07: War of the Worlds

[SueB]

On Cas not fighting: I think he knew that he and Lucifer were outgunned by a Prince of Hell so he was 'ready' but hoping Lucifer would talk his way out of it.  As soon as that failed, Asmodeus flung him into the bar and he took a pretty bad head blow.  I presume he was knocked unconscious for enough time for the demons to put him in chains.  So, I don't think Cas 'let' himself be caught, I think he waited to see how it played out and didn't get the opportunity to engage once it was clear Lucifer's ploy wasn't working.

 

I think it could be ANY random hunter. And I think that hunter may have told Ketch, who told Asmodeus. Ketch DID make hunter contacts before.  All he had to do was claim to have fought against the BMoL and was ostracized, someone might have fallen for that.  Or the stupid twin story.  So, Ketch is 'on the payroll' and simply is good at his job at hearing from other hunters.  Still could be some random but that is probably more complicated than it needs to be.

[catrox14]

On 11/24/2017 at 5:24 AM, Bergamot said:

Did I hear Cas tell Lucifer he was sorry about stabbing him? Seriously? I guess the show wants us to view them as a cute couple. And I guess we are supposed to find Lucifer's pride in his son charming? I cannot even express how over Lucifer I am on this show; I have been over him for years, but here he is, still being forced down our throats.

That PISSED ME OFF. But I did think Misha played it..like he was 'I'm sorry" but his face was like 'fuck off' I'm not really sorry. I dunno it was weird.

[Boopsahoy]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:14 AM, catrox14 said:

I just don't understand Cas since he's been back. There is something about the way 'Cas' (and I'm putting it that way because I'm still holding out that he might be not altogether together Cas) answers everything. It's like he's THINKING about what he has to say before he says it. It's not natural to Cas' speech patterns even back in s4. It's different.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying this is what I'm seeing in Cas and that it seems like it's someone acting like Cas, someone having to remember or search for the answers in memory.   I mean it's close enough for Dean to believe it's Cas but there is just something peculiar. Just MHO, YMMV and I'm probably wrong. But holding it in my back pocket.

Im still trying to figure out if it's Cas too-the tie thing really got me thinking. I replayed that episode and for sure his tie was striped and then when he got to earth is was a solid color. Have TPTB said anything about the tie color???

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Boopsahoy said:

Im still trying to figure out if it's Cas too-the tie thing really got me thinking. I replayed that episode and for sure his tie was striped and then when he got to earth is was a solid color. Have TPTB said anything about the tie color???

He has a different tie and a different coat. Like why would he go back with a different outfit and one that looks like earlier seasons Cas. It also looks like s4 Cas hair too. I almost wonder if Jack woke up the other dead Cas' and maybe this one is the one that got sent back. Or they all melded into this Cas? It's definitely a peculiar change that has to be for a reason.

[shoetingstar]

2 hours ago, Boopsahoy said:

Im still trying to figure out if it's Cas too-the tie thing really got me thinking. I replayed that episode and for sure his tie was striped and then when he got to earth is was a solid color. Have TPTB said anything about the tie color???

Interesting. I didn't even notice that. The more I think about it, it should become just a running joke - Cas' tie inexplicably changes every episode or even every scene. That would be hilarious. 

On 11/24/2017 at 10:14 AM, catrox14 said:

I just don't understand Cas since he's been back. There is something about the way 'Cas' (and I'm putting it that way because I'm still holding out that he might be not altogether together Cas) answers everything. It's like he's THINKING about what he has to say before he says it. It's not natural to Cas' speech patterns even back in s4. It's different.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying this is what I'm seeing in Cas and that it seems like it's someone acting like Cas, someone having to remember or search for the answers in memory.   I mean it's close enough for Dean to believe it's Cas but there is just something peculiar. Just MHO, YMMV and I'm probably wrong. But holding it in my back pocket.

 

42 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

He has a different tie and a different coat. Like why would he go back with a different outfit and one that looks like earlier seasons Cas. It also looks like s4 Cas hair too. I almost wonder if Jack woke up the other dead Cas' and maybe this one is the one that got sent back. Or they all melded into this Cas? It's definitely a peculiar change that has to be for a reason.

If it's not Cas - who is it? The Empty Primadonna/Diva as I like to call the Entity Cas annoyed for his freedom?

Edited November 29, 2017 by shoetingstar

[MysteryGuest]

I honestly don't know what to think about Cas.  I see the odd quirks that you're all mentioning, but I just don't know that it means anything.  Normally this show hits you over the head with anvils to let you know something's going on.  I can't remember when they've ever done this sort of switcheroo and been so subtle about it.  That's what makes me think it's not really a thing.  And we know absolutely nothing about the entity in The Empty to even suspect that he wanted to switch places with Cas.  He didn't even hint at any desire to return to earth.  So there really isn't much to go on.

I do think it's odd that Cas doesn't seem to have his powers, and yet no one seems to be asking about it or concerned.  At this point, I can't really remember just what powers he still had before he was killed?  Did he have full healing powers then?  Teleporting?  I just can't remember.  But whether he did or didn't, you would think that upon his "rebirth", it would be a question on all of their minds, including his.  So again, I don't know whether they're being deliberately cagey about Cas' status, or whether they're just oblivious to the fact that the fans worry about this shit.  

[shoetingstar]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

I honestly don't know what to think about Cas.  I see the odd quirks that you're all mentioning, but I just don't know that it means anything.  Normally this show hits you over the head with anvils to let you know something's going on.  I can't remember when they've ever done this sort of switcheroo and been so subtle about it.  That's what makes me think it's not really a thing.  And we know absolutely nothing about the entity in The Empty to even suspect that he wanted to switch places with Cas.  He didn't even hint at any desire to return to earth.  So there really isn't much to go on.

I do think it's odd that Cas doesn't seem to have his powers, and yet no one seems to be asking about it or concerned.  At this point, I can't really remember just what powers he still had before he was killed?  Did he have full healing powers then?  Teleporting?  I just can't remember.  But whether he did or didn't, you would think that upon his "rebirth", it would be a question on all of their minds, including his.  So again, I don't know whether they're being deliberately cagey about Cas' status, or whether they're just oblivious to the fact that the fans worry about this shit.  

I'm a bit confused as well about what are Cas' powers at this point. But we are not alone, as the writers may not remember themselves :) And you are so right, the show doesn't really DO subtlety, does it? I mean, not intentionally. I would be thoroughly impressed if this is an exception. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by shoetingstar

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, shoetingstar said:

I'm a bit confused as well about what are Cas' powers at this point. But we are not alone, as the writers may not remember themselves :) And you are so right, the show doesn't really DO subtlety, does it? I mean, not intentionally. I would be thoroughly impressed if this is an exception. 

IMO the only subtlety left in the show is delivered by the acting Jensen, and sometimes Jared, bring to the table.

Cas healed Dean right before the showdown in 12x23, so he had his powers right up to the end. None of the angels have been able to teleport since the fall (though that doesn't explain how the gang that came after Amara got there). It wouldn't make sense for Cas to be a prior version of himself - how would he have known about Jack? Or have Dean's cell number for that matter, lol. I do think there has to be something - just plopping him back on Earth with absolutely no consequences from dying/being in the Empty would be poor storytelling, indeed. I just don't know what it is. He looked so sad when he saw Dean & Sam - no joy at being alive or reunited with them. I wonder if there is a time limit to his resurrection? Or if he had to strike some kind of deal to get back? Would he sacrifice Dean or Sam in order to get back and fulfill his promise to protect Jack? He already betrayed Dean for him once. 

[Pondlass1]

Someone mentioned Cas wore a blue striped tie in the Empty but a solid blue tie when he arrived back on earth. So even wardrobe cannot keep versions of Cas  straight.  His abilities wax and wane according to that week's writer.  Glad I'm not a Cas fan. I'd be so annoyed.

[Res]

On 11/27/2017 at 1:59 PM, Katy M said:

Well, if Sam's been talking to "every hunter we know" he could have found out through the grapevine.

 

There really aren't that many hunters that we've met and are still alive.  Sam and Dean.  We can rule them out. I hope. That would be a horrid twist. Jodie, Donna, and Claire.  If they're getting a spinoff they're off the hook. There's the two hunters left from Free to Be You and Me.  Maybe there's a stray Campbell we didn't meet.  Not exactly filling your requirement, but I really can't think of any others.  Garth.  Maybe one of the Ghostfacers decided to be a hunter.

I'm wondering if Jodi is really Jodi now, considering how she was in "Patience". Maybe she's possessed and not really on "payroll" but still giving info.

[BoxManLocke]

Hi everyone, after reading the reviews here I decided to register as a lot of views seem to align to mine, and quite frankly there are never enough places to rant about BuckLeming episodes.

 

I particularly hated this episode because I felt like I was being forced to watch BuckLeming's parody version of Supernatural. Dumbass twists and character returns every five minutes, farcical versions of formerly good characters (Lucifer the funny, washed-up ally. I can't even.), awful new characters (After two episodes, Asmodeus is already beyond saving) and just this sad, sad feeling of mine that Sam and Dean's scenes are being put in there as afterthoughts because they have no choice.

I don't know what the AU is except a magical plot device and fanservice machine. Mary doesn't exist and Castiel got a single good episode before disappearing again like countless times before.

 

My only consolation after this trainwreck is that things will go back to normal for episode 8. Dabb can't do anything about BuckLeming's awfulness (or isn't allowed to fire them), but he at least found a way to contain them this season, so that their crap can't spill into other scripts. There's a reason the AU, Asmodeus and Lucifer haven't appeared anywhere other that BuckLeming eps this season. I suspect things will stay that way until much later into the season, like episode 17-18, or even the last batch of episodes.

Sure, compartmentalizing storylines this way doesn't really make a coherent main plot, and it makes the transition from a normal ep to a BuckLeming really jarring, but at least for now I can breathe after getting through an episode like this and tell myself things will get much better very quickly.

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Someone mentioned Cas wore a blue striped tie in the Empty but a solid blue tie when he arrived back on earth. So even wardrobe cannot keep versions of Cas  straight.  His abilities wax and wane according to that week's writer.  Glad I'm not a Cas fan. I'd be so annoyed.

I expect the wardrobe choices have been deliberate, we just don't know why yet. But, yeah, his abilities have always waxed and waned so I'm not sure I can actually say Cass is depowered yet.

10 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Cas healed Dean right before the showdown in 12x23, so he had his powers right up to the end. None of the angels have been able to teleport since the fall (though that doesn't explain how the gang that came after Amara got there). It wouldn't make sense for Cas to be a prior version of himself - how would he have known about Jack? Or have Dean's cell number for that matter, lol. I do think there has to be something - just plopping him back on Earth with absolutely no consequences from dying/being in the Empty would be poor storytelling, indeed. I just don't know what it is. 

I definitely think it has to be Cass and I'm not convinced he's depowered, but still am waiting for the other shoe to drop here too.

[gonzosgirrl]

On 11/27/2017 at 2:59 PM, Katy M said:

Well, if Sam's been talking to "every hunter we know" he could have found out through the grapevine.

 

But in 12x22 they contacted every hunter they know to rally them against the BMOL, presumably also letting them know that they (BMOL) were looking to wipe them all out. Surely if someone calling themselves Alexander Ketch came along claiming to be a hunter, they'd at least be a little judicious about sharing intel with him. And if they have/had no idea who he was, then sharing info with a complete unknown in wake of the BMOL would be incredibly stupid. I feel like the line was too deliberate to just be some random traitor/hunter, never to be heard from again. So it either has to be Ketch (which is poor storytelling), yet another dangling plot point, or there will be a big reveal down the road.

[DittyDotDot]

34 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But in 12x22 they contacted every hunter they know to rally them against the BMOL, presumably also letting them know that they (BMOL) were looking to wipe them all out.

Well, considering only, what, five showed up at Jodi's house, I'm thinking there might be one or two out there who are not on the same team. But, the hunter on the demon payroll doesn't have to be one Sam and Dean know. It could just be someone who happens to know someone they know. I mean, look at Gordon, Sam and Dean didn't know him, but he sure was up on all the Winchester gossip anyway.

Edited November 29, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[gonzosgirrl]

Hmm, my quote button seems to be missing....

@DittyDotDot:

Quote

Well, considering only, what, five showed up at Jodi's house, I'm thinking there might be one or two out there who are not on the same team. But, the hunter on the demon payroll doesn't have to be one Sam and Dean know. It could just be someone who happens to know someone they know. I mean, look at Gordon, Sam and Dean didn't know him, but he sure was up on all the Winchester gossip anyway.

Still though, Sam said he put the word out to everyone they know. Presuming these are the same people he would've put the word out to about the BMOL, then I'd think they wouldn't be eager to talk to unknown parties about the Spawn, even if they weren't willing to show up to fight them. So I'd also conclude that it is someone they know that is on the demon's payroll. I don't see the point in making that statement if it isn't someone who matters. Demon's are always trying to curry favour, so why give credit for the info to an unknown hunter? 

Don't get me wrong, it probably is as simple and anvillicious as setting up the reveal of Ketch reporting to Asmodeus at the end of the same episode, but a) I don't think it's good writing to have him know about it, and b) it would be interesting to sew a seed like that and have it pay off more than 22 minutes later.

[catrox14]

It does make me wonder since only a handful of hunters showing up for that "war" indicates the potential for a civil war between the American hunters who don't side with the Winchesters. Like whoever is on the payroll is actually way more privy to hunter shenanigans and someone who has a reason, besides Ketch for doing something. That's why I keep coming back to Cole. He spent how many years trying to find Dean and then got his ass handed to him. Sure he walked away but why would he just be all 'Okay Dean was right I'm just gonna go do something good".

[MysteryGuest]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

That's why I keep coming back to Cole. He spent how many years trying to find Dean and then got his ass handed to him. Sure he walked away but why would he just be all 'Okay Dean was right I'm just gonna go do something good".

I thought they ended up on pretty good terms after Dean saved his life.  That's not to say they can't or won't retcon that he's still pissed about his father, but from what we were shown, I think he understood what Dean did and why.  He's experienced monsters first hand now.

[DittyDotDot]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't see the point in making that statement if it isn't someone who matters. Demon's are always trying to curry favour, so why give credit for the info to an unknown hunter? 

It definitely could be someone we know, but I just thought it was their lazy way of wanting the demons to know something they shouldn't know and not wanting to actually spend time figuring out a more clever way for them to know it. It being the Horrible Duo and all... .

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I thought they ended up on pretty good terms after Dean saved his life.  That's not to say they can't or won't retcon that he's still pissed about his father, but from what we were shown, I think he understood what Dean did and why.  He's experienced monsters first hand now.

Eh, I just want him to come back so Dean can kill him. I hate that guy LOL

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I'm really behind due the holidays, but wanted to get this down before a new ep tonight!  A bit out of order, but here goes:

Are we really supposed to feel sympathy for Lucifer in the cage?  I'm no Team Michael, but I almost feel like the show wants me to forget what Lucifer did to Sam in the cage.  Sorrynotsorry - and not forgetting that.  I think both angels are dicks.  It was pretty fun seeing Lucifer down-powered and all bark with no bite.  I still don't want him 'redeemed', but if he must stay around, it might be fun to have him just as the comic relief.  I liked his 'Oh my dad' at least. 

Dean's concern about Jack does not feel genuine; neither in this episode nor the last.  Sam's does and Cas' does also.

So, setting Lucifer on a possible path of redemption is not enough, is the show going to try to redeem Ketch as well?  I agree with Dean: Ketch is not one of the good guys. 

I thought it was ridiculous that Sam didn't immediately recognize Ketch in the video.  And on top of that Sam looks stupid by being taken in, even if just a little, by his Alexander story.  Ketch gave himself away, as far as I'm concerned, when he jumped to defend 'Arthur's' morality and loyalty.  If he'd actually been a renegade brother, I don't think he would have defended someone being loyal to the organization that he ditched.  Then the Sam stupid continues with him letting Ketch out of the dungeon.  He should have just thrown the man some scraps and let him lick them off the floor rather than let him wander around freely - handcuffs or no.  ::sigh::  I guess Sam's too nice for that.  I wouldn't have been.  ?  But 'nice' does not have to equal stupid.  I don't like it when the writers make Sam look stupid.  I don't like it when the writers make either brother look stupid, because they are not that stupid.  Sam is especially not stupid enough to not lock up Ketch properly.   Unless...maybe it's because Sam is used to being the one tied to a little chair, so he doesn't have enough experience tying some up else up to a chair!  ?

Then Dean got hit by the stupid stick when he stood there and let Ketch monologue instead of just shooting him right away.  Classic Hero mistake.  Dean should have taken a few more shots when Ketch was riding away though.  He might have gotten lucky and hit him again. Well, at least Dean looked really good in that scene when they had Ketch tied up in the bunker, so there’s that.

Nice to see Osric again, but Kevin felt a little 'off'.  I guess it's because it's AU Kevin.  So I wonder what happened to AU God?  Or is Chuck God of all the universes?  Personally, I think it would make sense if he were (god of all the universes) but this is this show and all...

I still think it's weird seeing Lucifer in the Nick suit wearing a wedding ring.   I know it's because 'Nick' was married.  I just don't know why Lucifer would bother keeping it on. 

I don't know what kind of witch Daniella was/is - I guess there can be witches that don't always go around hurting people, like Max and Alicia Banes, so I think Sam and Dean only hunt the ones who do hurt people.  Still, I think it was awfully brave of her to allow them to use her as bait. 

I liked seeing the bank of phones labeled 'FBI' and 'CIA'.  Reminds me of Bobby's.  Maybe there's still hope they'll explore setting up the AMoL a little better. 

So there are no women left in the au?  That's awkward. 

On 11/23/2017 at 9:43 PM, Jeddah said:

I just want to say that Southerners do not sound like Asmodeus. Trust me, y’all. The actor is trying, bless his heart, but that accent just gets worse every time I hear it.

Yeah - one of my biggest pet peeves is horrible southern accents done (or overdone) by actors.  Evil Colonel Sanders indeed - and now I will never think of KFC the same way again.  ?

[gonzosgirrl]

Personally, I'm glad Dean only winged Ketch when he was fleeing. I don't think I'm ready for him (non MOC Dean) to be killing humans unless in self-defense, and at the moment Ketch wasn't armed (Sam grabbed the blade on his way to Dean's side) and was running away.

I can only imagine the wank if he'd just shot him dead in cold blood.

Edited November 30, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[ahrtee]

27 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I thought it was ridiculous that Sam didn't immediately recognize Ketch in the video. 

TBH, I didn't recognize him in the video either--not immediately or even after a few minutes when they kept saying "is that who I think it is?" or something similar.  Maybe I'm a little slow, or maybe I've just wiped Ketch out of my mind.  The beard does make a difference, though.  

[catrox14]

Nice gif set of some of the bar fight. It was hard to see all the great moves because it was a bit too quick cut for my tastes.

justjensenanddean

Dean Winchester | 13x07 War of the Worlds

[Whodunnit]

So the angels are going extinct? And their grace and angel swords (that I think were made from grace or something) are glutting the market? Nope, I don't see any parallels with elephants, siberian tigers...

[Katy M]

43 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

So the angels are going extinct? And their grace and angel swords (that I think were made from grace or something) are glutting the market? Nope, I don't see any parallels with elephants, siberian tigers...

I don't think their grace is glutting the market.  Unless you do the neck slit thing and collect the grace, the grace dies with the angel.  I think each angel was handed a sword when he or she was created.  I don't think it's made from their grace, although that's kind of an interesting theory.

 

44 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

So the angels are going extinct? And their grace and angel swords (that I think were made from grace or something) are glutting the market? Nope, I don't see any parallels with elephants, siberian tigers...

[Whodunnit]

You have a point about the grace.

These days it seems like every demon willing to pay can get their hands on an angel blade though, because of how many angels have died.

And now they want Jack to repopulate the species? If they fail, will we see wildlife conservationists show up next, taking notes about angel habitats, feeding and breeding habits?

Edited December 2, 2017 by Whodunnit

[ParadoxLost]

So Cas is alive.  Ketch is alive. Rowena is presumably alive if Ketch's story is true vs Colonel Sanders being responsible. And Lucifer has returned.

So last season finale was some BS manipulation to limit the blowback of killing off Crowley and not intended to change things up in any way.

This episode brought home to me how tired I am of the direction the show has taken.  I can't remember the last time they took a break from the unrelenting tedium of angel and demon politics. Oh wait, it was the tedium of British Men of Letters. So great plan, merging those two.. 

[Pondlass1]

36 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

the unrelenting tedium of angel and demon politics

This series has managed to make angels and demons soooo boring.  Quite a feat when you think about it!!

[Jonesy]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 8:20 AM, ParadoxLost said:

So Cas is alive.  Ketch is alive. Rowena is presumably alive if Ketch's story is true vs Colonel Sanders being responsible. And Lucifer has returned.

So last season finale was some BS manipulation to limit the blowback of killing off Crowley and not intended to change things up in any way.

This episode brought home to me how tired I am of the direction the show has taken.  I can't remember the last time they took a break from the unrelenting tedium of angel and demon politics. Oh wait, it was the tedium of British Men of Letters. So great plan, merging those two.. 

Yes real Cas is back as is Ketch and Rowena.  I'm fine with it.  I'll miss Crowley but the show is still fine.  Don't think they planned last year's finale just to minimize Crowley's killing--not at all.  And I still enjoy Angels and Demons--though they were better earlier.

[Katy M]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:05 AM, Pondlass1 said:

This series has managed to make angels and demons soooo boring.  Quite a feat when you think about it!!

And, IMO, worse than boring, they're both the same with the exception that angels are far less powerful.

[Mulva]

On 12/4/2017 at 10:33 AM, Katy M said:

And, IMO, worse than boring, they're both the same with the exception that angels are far less powerful.

I remember when demons fled in fear when angels showed up.  Angels could smite them with a look.   What happened?

[takalotti]

I didn’t actually get to rewatch this episode before it got deleted from my CW app. But I didn’t really have much to add beyond the following since most of the previous posts captured my thoughts already.

 

DEAN: We'll find him. I mean, there's gotta be a sign at some point, right?

[...]

SAM: I don't know. Maybe he's covering his tracks.

CASTIEL: Or this apparent dearth of evidence is, in fact, the evidence.

SAM: The evidence of...

CASTIEL: Of some horrific misadventure that's befallen him, like being dragged down to Hell by Asmodeus. Or... [Sighs] I don't know, possibly worse, being hijacked to Heaven by angels.

DEAN: Yeah, but isn't he too fast and furious for angels?

CASTIEL: Maybe. Maybe not. That's what I'm gonna find out.

SAM: Find out from who? From – from the angels?

CASTIEL: Yes.

DEAN: All right. Well, let's go.

Me: Aww! Dean isn’t about to let Cas out of his sight for a while!*

CASTIEL: Dean, you can't accompany me. My contact is already anxious about meeting and won't speak in the presence of a stranger.

Me: Ha! Good luck with that, Cas.

DEAN: So introduce me. Then I'm not a stranger. I'll bring a six-pack.

Me: See?

CASTIEL: Dean, I swore I would protect this boy. Let me do this.

Me: Sorry, Cas. Not gonna happen without Dean by your side.

DEAN: Don't do anything stupid.

Me: Wait, WHAT?!?!

 

So I’m really supposed to believe that Dean spiraled into a depression over losing his Mom and Cas, blamed Jack for Cas' death because Jack "tricked" Cas into believing "lies" about paradise on earth which lead to Cas sacrificing himself to protect Jack, and now Cas is off on another mission due to wanting to protect Jack and Dean is all "'kay bye!"

 

Sorry, not buying it.

 

Also, unless he had a gag-order spell put on him, Cas should have shouted "That’s not me, Dean!" over Asmodeus instead of just looking on kinda bummed.

 

*Yes, I know Cas was out of his sight at the end of Tombstone, but "see ya at home" isn’t the same as "have fun on your solo mission."

Edited February 27, 2018 by takalotti

[catrox14]

14 hours ago, takalotti said:

I didn’t actually get to rewatch this episode before it got deleted from my CW app. But I didn’t really have much to add beyond the following since most of the previous posts captured my thoughts already.

 

DEAN: We'll find him. I mean, there's gotta be a sign at some point, right?

[...]

SAM: I don't know. Maybe he's covering his tracks.

CASTIEL: Or this apparent dearth of evidence is, in fact, the evidence.

SAM: The evidence of...

CASTIEL: Of some horrific misadventure that's befallen him, like being dragged down to Hell by Asmodeus. Or... [Sighs] I don't know, possibly worse, being hijacked to Heaven by angels.

DEAN: Yeah, but isn't he too fast and furious for angels?

CASTIEL: Maybe. Maybe not. That's what I'm gonna find out.

SAM: Find out from who? From – from the angels?

CASTIEL: Yes.

DEAN: All right. Well, let's go.

Me: Aww! Dean isn’t about to let Cas out of his sight for a while!*

CASTIEL: Dean, you can't accompany me. My contact is already anxious about meeting and won't speak in the presence of a stranger.

Me: Ha! Good luck with that, Cas.

DEAN: So introduce me. Then I'm not a stranger. I'll bring a six-pack.

Me: See?

CASTIEL: Dean, I swore I would protect this boy. Let me do this.

Me: Sorry, Cas. Not gonna happen without Dean by your side.

DEAN: Don't do anything stupid.

Me: Wait, WHAT?!?!

 

So I’m really supposed to believe that Dean spiraled into a depression over losing his Mom and Cas, blamed Jack for Cas' death because Jack "tricked" Cas into believing "lies" about paradise on earth which lead to Cas sacrificing himself to protect Jack, and now Cas is off on another mission due to wanting to protect Jack and Dean is all "'kay bye!"

 

Sorry, not buying it.

 

Also, unless he had a gag-order spell put on him, Cas should have shouted "That’s not me, Dean!" over Asmodeus instead of just looking on kinda bummed.

 

*Yes, I know Cas was out of his sight at the end of Tombstone, but "see ya at home" isn’t the same as "have fun on your solo mission."

This pretty well captured my reactions to Dean just letting Cas go. So stupid.

[Res]

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

This pretty well captured my reactions to Dean just letting Cas go. So stupid.

Yeah, but plot gotta plot, yo!

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

After seeing The Shape of Water I really wish they hadn't killed off Eileen.  I really liked that character.  I remember one scene that must've been filmed on a cold damp night and Shoshannah's nose was quite visibly red - I guess makeup didn't notice or whatever - but that red nose really endeared her to me.

Everyone dies, but Lucy lives on...

Brought from another thread because the bolded....  for this alone Sam and/or Dean should've killed Ketch on sight. Fuck that character and the writers for bringing him back.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Brought from another thread because the bolded....  for this alone Sam and/or Dean should've killed Ketch on sight. Fuck that character and the writers for bringing him back.

Word. and I'm still pissed that Sam hasn't really talked about her death. He seemed pretty smitten with her.

[The Companion]

On 11/23/2017 at 8:08 PM, bettername2come said:

Kevin! Kevin! Not my Kevin, but still a perfectly fine Kevin with a haircut I don't hate. "I'm sorry, aren't you Satan?" Can new Kevin meet new Bobby? I should get something out of this new world.

I've grown bored with Lucifer, but I'm glad Rowena's potentially alive. She's delightful with fantastic taste in dresses.

I was kinda excited to see AUKevin and definitely want him to team up with AUBobby. Lol

I am so sick of Lucifer. He is so one note. I don't understand why they have an interesting villain like Rowena and they kill her off while leaving us with Lucifer. Ugh.

On 11/23/2017 at 8:43 PM, Jeddah said:

 

I just want to say that Southerners do not sound like Asmodeus. Trust me, y’all. The actor is trying, bless his heart, but that accent just gets worse every time I hear it.

. . . 

As for Ketch: Why? Why is he back? I would have been okay with Mick, but Ketch? No. I avoid spoilers, so that did surprise me. And not in a good way.

 

Agreed on both points. 

I hate bad Southern accents. Like nails on a chalkboard. 

Ketch is the worst. I don't understand why they are oversaturating the show with irritating villains.

On 11/23/2017 at 9:52 PM, catrox14 said:

Ketch's resurrection is bullshit. As much as I dislike Mary, she had a well fucking deserved win by her killing Ketch and now they've just undone that. Fuck you, Buck Lemming.

Yup.

On 11/24/2017 at 7:24 AM, Bergamot said:

 

Did I hear Cas tell Lucifer he was sorry about stabbing him? Seriously? I guess the show wants us to view them as a cute couple. And I guess we are supposed to find Lucifer's pride in his son charming? I cannot even express how over Lucifer I am on this show; I have been over him for years, but here he is, still being forced down our throats.

 

Agreed. Lucifer is awful and I have 0 interest in any sort of "redemption." 

On 11/24/2017 at 9:39 AM, ahrtee said:

Just another random thought...why did Rowena give Ketch the "real" resurrection spell?  After all, it's not like he could test it in advance, or, if he did and it didn't work, he could do anything about it.  It's not like she always kept her promises--remember her trying to cheat Lucifer/Vince out of his eternal youth (or whatever) spell that made him disintegrate instead?  

This was my thought. No way Rowena gives him the real thing. Not unless she thought it would help her in some way. 

On 11/24/2017 at 12:51 PM, Bergamot said:

I agree with almost every criticism leveled at this episode, but there were one or two things that I liked, at least enough to want to watch those moments again.

I also thought it was interesting how Sam dug deep into the research in order to figure out the truth about Ketch, whereas Dean relied on his instincts. Very characteristic of both of them. I was struck by the intensity of Dean's reaction to Ketch asking how Mary was, but I didn't realize what it meant. I thought that Dean was just upset by Ketch having the gall to talk about his mother, so I didn't realize, as Dean did, the significance of Ketch asking that question. I didn't notice, as Dean did, the look in Ketch's eyes, that moment of naked emotion coming from Arthur's obsession with Mary.

One thing that I loved, and probably my favorite part of the episode, is that Dean is finally completely convinced of Ketch's identity after seeing him fight. "I've seen your moves," he tells him. "We've gone toe to toe." The idea that Dean can identify a person with such certainty on the basis of having fought with them, the idea that he is so tuned in, so honed in on someone because of that -- well, it is kind of exciting to me. It's just so ..... visceral.

I also have to say that I liked the way Sam immediately moved away from Ketch to stand next to Dean, as soon as Dean announced he was sure about him. I like that in this case he wisely didn't argue or wait for an explanation, but just trusted Dean's instincts.

I do agree with all of this. I like how the brothers have gotten better at listening to one another and trusting each other. 

On 11/25/2017 at 10:52 AM, catrox14 said:

I'm not communicating well LOL. I know we know she's with Michael. My point is that IMO she deserves to be shown on screen. Not where she is but how she is right now. Her face should be shown regardless of budget. Show us a picture of her.

I don't like that Mary has become an almost invisible pawn in a chess game between like 5 male characters, The Devil, Ketch, Michael, Dean and Sam. It bothers me and I'm not usually overly bothered by the optics of male/female dynamics in this show but this is pretty glaring.

I will laugh though if it turns out that Mary is sleeping with someone in Michael's garrison.  I don't want that to happen to Mary. It was bad enough with Ketch.

Maybe Michael is going to try and woo her to be his bride or some such nonsense.

This is the problem when you kill off all of your female characters. It becomes glaringly obvious and gross when you omit like the one survivor. 

On 11/25/2017 at 1:37 PM, catrox14 said:

This is a problem in the storyline though. The only two characters who ended up being trapped in the AU were Mary and Lucifer.

If Lucifer was the only one trapped, then keep it solely about him. But they trapped the resurrected mother of the main protagonists with the mortal enemy of one of the main protagonists.

They featured her with him in the revisits to the AU but nope this one time, she's just an afterthought to remind the audience, oh yeah Mary is there

Actually, I'm going to retract something. I would rather they never mentioned Mary at all than as an afterthought line from Lucifer. Because at that point Mary did become germane. And if she gets a mention then she should be shown insoem way.

I'm salty about Lucifer having escaped and Mary is stuck.

I honestly don't know why they even bothered to bring her back. What they have done with her so far has been entirely unsatisfying.

On 11/25/2017 at 2:51 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

IMO, Asmodeus is the worst character they've introduced in a long time, maybe even ever. The mustache-twirling Colonel Sanders cheesieness aside, he's just..  blah. Not even a poor man's Azazel, never mind trying to replace someone with Crowley's charm. I hate the ret-conning of YEDs into shape-shifting Princes of Hell as it is, but this actor and character make it exponentially worse. Too bad they didn't let Dagon take over. 

I have Lucifer but Asmodeus is unwatchable. Every time he comes on screen, I get stabby

On 2/26/2018 at 6:02 PM, takalotti said:

I didn’t actually get to rewatch this episode before it got deleted from my CW app. But I didn’t really have much to add beyond the following since most of the previous posts captured my thoughts already.

 

DEAN: We'll find him. I mean, there's gotta be a sign at some point, right?

[...]

SAM: I don't know. Maybe he's covering his tracks.

CASTIEL: Or this apparent dearth of evidence is, in fact, the evidence.

SAM: The evidence of...

CASTIEL: Of some horrific misadventure that's befallen him, like being dragged down to Hell by Asmodeus. Or... [Sighs] I don't know, possibly worse, being hijacked to Heaven by angels.

DEAN: Yeah, but isn't he too fast and furious for angels?

CASTIEL: Maybe. Maybe not. That's what I'm gonna find out.

SAM: Find out from who? From – from the angels?

CASTIEL: Yes.

DEAN: All right. Well, let's go.

Me: Aww! Dean isn’t about to let Cas out of his sight for a while!*

CASTIEL: Dean, you can't accompany me. My contact is already anxious about meeting and won't speak in the presence of a stranger.

Me: Ha! Good luck with that, Cas.

DEAN: So introduce me. Then I'm not a stranger. I'll bring a six-pack.

Me: See?

CASTIEL: Dean, I swore I would protect this boy. Let me do this.

Me: Sorry, Cas. Not gonna happen without Dean by your side.

DEAN: Don't do anything stupid.

Me: Wait, WHAT?!?!

 

So I’m really supposed to believe that Dean spiraled into a depression over losing his Mom and Cas, blamed Jack for Cas' death because Jack "tricked" Cas into believing "lies" about paradise on earth which lead to Cas sacrificing himself to protect Jack, and now Cas is off on another mission due to wanting to protect Jack and Dean is all "'kay bye!"

 

Sorry, not buying it.

 

Also, unless he had a gag-order spell put on him, Cas should have shouted "That’s not me, Dean!" over Asmodeus instead of just looking on kinda bummed.

 

*Yes, I know Cas was out of his sight at the end of Tombstone, but "see ya at home" isn’t the same as "have fun on your solo mission."

I went through the same thing lol.

 

This was another "and then" episode and, honestly, I was so uninspired that it took me a few days to even post on it. I do not like Lucifer or Asmodeus or Ketch. And not in a love to hate way or even a hate watchable way. They are all like the same obnoxious smug asshole. 

[FlickChick]

I tried to warn you... 😉

[gonzosgirrl]

58 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I tried to warn you... 😉

And it only gets worse.