S02.E09: White Rock

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Sam and the girls go on a trip.

[chocolatine]

Finally some likable characters on this show. Especially Letty, who was much kinder to Sam than she had to be. Miraculously, even the girls acted like decent human beings, though I don't suppose Sam will take that as a hint that her indulgent "Hollywood" style of parenting is bad for them.

[Jade Foxx]

I’m done with this insufferable piece of shit show. 

Wonder what Adlon will say regarding her pervy pal Louis CK. 

[jennylauren123]

So many good, kind people in this episode: The uncle, the aunt, Letty. And the setting was beautiful and tranquil. The aunt was so sweet to the older child. "Have your moment." Sometimes people treat you better than you deserve. Duke seems to be the only sensitive one, truly sensitive one, in the immediate family. If this were real life, the aunt and uncle could provide escape and solace when she needs it, as she grows. It would be a wonderful getaway for her, with people who can really feel, talk, and express.

[Blakeston]

I think these kinds of episodes are the show at its best. They went a little overboard with the "everyone dies and everything ends" stuff, but all in all it was a beautiful episode.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the finale next week, considering that Louis CK was involved in writing it.

[Kenz]

There are so many disconnects with this show.  Sam and the girls leave town for three days and don't let the grandmother with dementia problems even know where they went? Why wouldn't Sam's uncle have checked on his sister who is in a facility to see how she is? She died in 1983 and he didn't even know about it? Sam is screwing up her daughters in so many ways. Sometimes she's loving, most of the time she's a selfish creep. It's frustrating to watch a show when the lead character is so unlikable.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Kenz

[ichbin]

Well, I gave this season another chance today.  Nothing changed for the better.  Two eldest daughters and Sam still miserable.  I think it is well acted, but the overall story is just miserable too.  Pretty much depressing overall.  Most egregious is the lack of any semblance of humor considering this is supposed to be a comedy.   I can't fathom why it has been renewed for a 3rd season.  It really feels like the positive hype is a case of the Emperor's New Clothes.  

Why is Sam so awful to her own mother?  I can't recall if it was ever made clear.  

[Jeanne222]

Sam is overwhelmed and unappreciated!  Period.

We get another season?  Yippee!

[scrb]

33 minutes ago, ichbin said:

Well, I gave this season another chance today.  Nothing changed for the better.  Two eldest daughters and Sam still miserable.  I think it is well acted, but the overall story is just miserable too.  Pretty much depressing overall.  Most egregious is the lack of any semblance of humor considering this is supposed to be a comedy.   I can't fathom why it has been renewed for a 3rd season.  It really feels like the positive hype is a case of the Emperor's New Clothes.  

Why is Sam so awful to her own mother?  I can't recall if it was ever made clear.  

Yeah they created a pseudo LL Beat catalog vibe, especially the scenes at the beach, with the whole gang in vintage-looking clothes.

And there was some mystique, with only Duke seeing that ghost but a little too on the nose with Duke saying she could be the sad lady or the aunt Marion that Sam was so upset to learn about.

 

Are they deliberately trying to draw a parallel between Sam's relationship with her two older daughters and her mother's relationship with her?  The daughters in both cases feel aggrieved by the failings of their mothers and the mothers aren't always kind toward the daughters either, though we've only seen Phil kind of sleight Sam to her friends in that one episode where she's shown to be falling prey to dementia.

Frankie and Max seemed to have have breakthrough when they gave Sam the mock obituaries but they went back to sniping at their mother the next time we see them.

Sam is upset that her mother never told her about Aunt Marion.  But does she feel guilty that she didn't bring mom up to her brother's place?  Or in the end, she doesn't give a shit and tells her where she went for 3 days, without her?  Is she telling Phil that they had a good time without her or that they had a good time because they went without her?  Maybe not as overt or blunt as Frankie but perhaps as cruel as Frankie was to Sam an episode or two ago (calling her a shit sorter, getting too old as an actress, etc.).

[Ottis]

I’m with Frankie here. Just because you are related doesn’t mean you are close or even matter. If you don’t see people, or get to know them, then the fact they are “family” is meaningless. I️have friends who are more family than family.

This show can be amazing. It’s the pacing and reality of relationships I️ think. 

Duke, tell people what you saw!

Don’t get the appeal of cold, muddy beaches. 

[Jeanne222]

I loved seeing Sam with her Aunt and Uncle.  First time she could just breathe in a long time!

What wonderful family they were to her and her girls.

Mom along would have changed everything!

[pasdetrois]

I loved seeing different scenery and the great Nigel Havers ("Chariots of Fire).

It's a trope but true that when you remove some urban kids from their normal environment (spending money, social media, bratty friends), and someone new gives them lots of individual attention, they lean in.

But the forgotten aunt and Sam's harsh treatment of her mother broke my heart. In my family we have people with Alzheimers and mental illness, so it makes me sad to see these people mistreated. Phil shuffling behind Sam, trying to keep up and figure out what was going on, was sad.

Of course Sam has her reasons. I mean, the opening song every week is John Lennon wailing about his mother.

[Blakeston]

On 11/11/2017 at 2:37 AM, ichbin said:

Why is Sam so awful to her own mother?  I can't recall if it was ever made clear.  

Her mother is a manipulative, malignant narcissist. She's also delusional - not just in the senile sense, but in the sense that she's spent her life with the delusion that she's been wronged by everyone around her.

She's also quite racist. And she never even told Sam about her aunt.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/12/2017 at 9:30 AM, Blakeston said:

On 11/11/2017 at 2:37 AM, ichbin said:

Why is Sam so awful to her own mother?  I can't recall if it was ever made clear.  

Her mother is a manipulative, malignant narcissist. She's also delusional - not just in the senile sense, but in the sense that she's spent her life with the delusion that she's been wronged by everyone around her.

She's also quite racist. And she never even told Sam about her aunt.

I agree with everything you said, except perhaps the part about her sister Marion.  That may have been too painful for her to discuss, just as her parents didn't discuss Marion or the dead brother once they were gone from the house.  The fact that Phyl (IMDb says her name is "Phyllis") did name her son "Marion" shows that her sister's life had an impact on her.  (I just hope that Marion is older than Sam, because although "Marion" is a British man's name, too. it seems less kind in the US to give that name to a boy if you've had a girl first.  Assuming the kids were born in America.)

Edited November 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[holly4755]

On 11/10/2017 at 8:35 PM, Kenz said:

There are so many disconnects with this show.  Sam and the girls leave town for three days and don't let the grandmother with dementia problems even know where they went? Why wouldn't Sam's uncle have checked on his sister who is in a facility to see how she is? She died in 1983 and he didn't even know about it? Sam is screwing up her daughters in so many ways. Sometimes she's loving, most of the time she's a selfish creep. It's frustrating to watch a show when the lead character is so unlikable.

I guess you have to understand the times.  In many ways I regret the cruelty I feel I felt towards my cousin with down syndrome.  I never hit her or bad mouthed her and I always listened when she talked, but I tolerated her rather than connecting, and that is so obviously wrong and cruel today. 

I have to give some of the perspective. This all took place before Willowbrook scandal that broke the ways we connected with children with disabilities or disturbed adults for the matter.  It mostly occurred n the 30's into the 60's. When a person had a child with down syndrome, they put it in an institution run by the state and never looked back or visited, it was no longer their child or responsibility. there were multiple reasons for doing it. Social pressure of people who wanted only cute little children around.  Mind yo I had lots of friends that suffered with Polio and it's after effects. But that was OK because they still had  fully functioning brains.  When my Aunt had her baby, it was her 6th child, She was a good catholic, but she had her tubes tied so that she and her family could work with their Child with Downs.  The taught her because schools would not have her, it was not easy, but she did learn to read. She could not speak clearly, but she could function.  Her 9 sisters were in an uproar, it will bankrupt her family, it would take away and be a burden to their other children. No one wanted her invited to parties because she was over weight but even as an adult wanted to climb into people's laps.  My aunt and her family pretty much did it all with no help from a usually very helpful family. My family were good people, but they invaded my thinking as well. I didn't want her around.  My aunt died very young probably from all the stress, then my Uncle died when their house burned down but all the children got out.  The youngest daughter took on full time care of her sister, and still the family was not there. 

It was how people thought even years after willowbrook when no one abandoned their children any more.  The mindset of not accepting the "retarded"  or mentally ill still existed for certain generations.  It was wrong, It was abusive, but it was what happened.  And that is why they would not be visiting the sister/aunt.  For reference, there was a daughter of the Kennedy's who had the money to afford special care,  Joe Kennedy took the daughter who had mental issues and put her in a hospital and had them give her a lobotomy so she would be easier to handle, and the family was to not visit her. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowbrook_State_School

Edited November 15, 2017 by holly4755

[possibilities]

What holly4755 is saying is very true.

My friend, born in the 1940s, had cerebral palsy. Her parents loved her and wanted to raise her like any other child but in those days there was NO legal mandate to educate all children, and the doctors PRESSURED the parents very strongly to send her away to a "residential facility" and forget she existed. They fought hard against it but they were told it was "best for the child. just send her away and forget about her and start over".

At the place they sent her, they did not provide any education, nor physical therapy or any other kind of services. The children were severely neglected and out-right abused. My friend's parents visited her often (traveling many hours each direction to see her) but most parents did not.

After a few years, my friend's parents couldn't stand it anymore, and went against all social norms and pulled her out of there and brought her home. But there was still no equal educational opportunity and they had to fight very hard to force the schools to enroll her at all, and once they enrolled her the parents had to raise hell to force them to teach her to read, do math, etc. The school's expectations were very low, basically non-existent. They didn't even test her to figure out what she was capable of, they just didn't want to even try.

And my friend was very intelligent, and came from a comfortable middle class family with no other children, and her parents were firebrands who devoted their lives to making sure her needs were met-- they even founded a national organization to advocate for disabled kids, based on what they learned as parents when there was literally NOTHING to support them in raising her and not throwing her away. They fought hard for her and she fought hard for herself, every step of the way, insisted on getting an education, then going to college, and she eventually got a masters degree in linguistics-- so it's not like she wasn't capable. But imagine how much harder it was for parents who didn't have resources, and whose child had intellectual challenges as well as physical ones, during those times and before then.

It wasn't until the 1970s that the IDEA was passed, mandating any real standards of public education for disabled children. And even then, it was not like things changed completely or overnight.

All this is tragic and disgraceful. But I think what happened to Aunt Marion was typical for the time, despite how horrible it was.

Some families bucked the norms, but many didn't know how to, or didn't have the resources, or failed to consider it because that's just how things were done.

Edited November 26, 2017 by possibilities

[Court]

This season has been very uneven for me but I loved this episode. I felt like this was more like the fantastic first season.

[holly4755]

I should add that when my father was a child in the early 30's they locked an uncle in a shed to live when he had an illness. My father recognized it when he had parkinsons as an adult, the shaking,  The mistreatment of the ill and the mentally ill has occurred for far back in history, For years this man had to live in an unheated shed in New Jersey while he was ill,  I can't imagine it

[Jeanne222]

Is Better Things ever coming back?  I keep looking but nothing. 

Looks like there will be a season 3. 

Better Things Renewed: When does Better Things return?

Current show status: FX has officially renewed Better Things for season 3. The release date for the new season is PENDING. We will update this post with more details as soon as they become available. If you want to get notified of the season 3 premiere, please sign up for updates below, and join the conversation in our forums.

http://tonights.tv/shows/better-things-season-3-release-date-premiere-come-on-when-does-air-channel/

[formerlyfreedom]

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

Is Better Things ever coming back?  I keep looking but nothing. 

Both the first season and second seasons premiered in September, so that's likely when season three will premiere.

[LisainCali]

Latecomer to this show and this board.....I LOVE this show.  The kids are jerks, but that’s the way kids are in adolescence, which seems to be a correct time.  Later in life is a catastrophe...

IMHO, everyone rebels at some point in their lives.  The people who don’t rebel in high school, rebel in their 40s.  Leave their wives and children, or have an affair with their boss, go live on some island, etc.  IMHO, everyone rebels at some point.

But I live in SoCal, so maybe we’re different.  I doubt it.  

Edited October 8, 2018 by LisainCali
Autocorrect was just wrong!